RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
There are arguments to be made for both the bitmap (Photoshop) and the vector (Illustrator) component. I happily work with either PS CS5 (which came with my TCS 3.0) or with my PS CS6 (which came with my Creative Suite collection). The upgrade is largely irrelevant to me, but I appreciate having if I choose to explore the new features. My point is that for most technical writers, the latest and greatest PS or Illustrator is gravy; but it is nice to have relatively recent versions of both. It might benefit Adobe to adopt a policy of addressing both needs by release latest and greatest versions of PS and Illustrator on an alternating schedule with the Technical Communications Suite. So TCS 3 included PS and TCS4 includes Illustrator. TCS5 would include the latest PS at time of release, while TCS 6 would include the latest Illustrator. That way they restrict the licenses a bit and yet meet the basic need for both items. Of course, this would require that installing an upgrade of the TCS would not disable or require the removal of the previous versions software. As for those who are limited by when they hop on the train, this thread amply shows that there are other options to make up for whatever package you don't get at the point of departure. Craig Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
At 13:59 +0200 26/9/12, Gust, Dieter wrote: Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. Hmmm. While I can see where you are coming from, as a long-time FrameMaker user I have to deal with CMYK when taking technical books to press, to ensure a valid press-ready file. In many cases this is just to create a PDF that does *not* contain C, M or Y information, but the capability is still required. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
At 13:59 +0200 26/9/12, Gust, Dieter wrote: >Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap >software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the >demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in >TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator >which is now included in TCS4. Hmmm. While I can see where you are coming from, as a long-time FrameMaker user I have to deal with CMYK when taking technical books to press, to ensure a valid press-ready file. In many cases this is just to create a PDF that does *not* contain C, M or Y information, but the capability is still required. -- Steve
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
There are arguments to be made for both the bitmap (Photoshop) and the vector (Illustrator) component. I happily work with either PS CS5 (which came with my TCS 3.0) or with my PS CS6 (which came with my Creative Suite collection). The "upgrade" is largely irrelevant to me, but I appreciate having if I choose to explore the new features. My point is that for most technical writers, the latest and greatest PS or Illustrator is gravy; but it is nice to have relatively recent versions of both. It might benefit Adobe to adopt a policy of addressing both needs by release latest and greatest versions of PS and Illustrator on an alternating schedule with the Technical Communications Suite. So TCS 3 included PS and TCS4 includes Illustrator. TCS5 would include the latest PS at time of release, while TCS 6 would include the latest Illustrator. That way they restrict the licenses a bit and yet meet the basic need for both items. Of course, this would require that installing an upgrade of the TCS would not disable or require the removal of the previous versions software. As for those who are limited by when they "hop on the train", this thread amply shows that there are other options to make up for whatever package you don't get at the point of departure. Craig Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/attachments/20120929/7f1c9726/attachment.html>
Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Somebody here reported a bug in printing to .ps. I gave up on printing to anything other than Adobe PDF because I'd constantly forget to change the printer back and end up with errors in generating PDF. Definitely saves me time in the long run never to print directly. How about Adobe enhancing Save As PDF so you could set it to always use a selected printer definition instead of the current printer? I don't expect that to happen given that from FM8 on close to zero of the feature enhancements have improved the experience of everyday, experienced unstructured-mode users. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Karen Robbins karendes...@gmail.com wrote: Can one still print a book to a .ps file for external distilling in unstructured FM11? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
At 12:00 PM -0500 9/27/12, Jeff Coatsworth jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com wrote (about the printing problem): They're working on it - I just got an e-mail from my contact at Adobe and they've recreated the issue with a sample book I gave them. There is a workaround - flip to Structured FM and you don't get the error. Thank goodness! Um... how does one flip to structured? Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Edit Preferences General - look for Kapil Verma's post on the workaround. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Karen Robbins Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:21 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop At 12:00 PM -0500 9/27/12, Jeff Coatsworth jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com wrote (about the printing problem): They're working on it - I just got an e-mail from my contact at Adobe and they've recreated the issue with a sample book I gave them. There is a workaround - flip to Structured FM and you don't get the error. Thank goodness! Um... how does one flip to structured? Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
At 12:00 PM -0500 9/27/12, Jeff Coatsworth wrote (about the printing problem): >They're working on it - I just got an e-mail from my contact at >Adobe and they've recreated the issue with a sample book I gave >them. There is a workaround - flip to Structured FM and you don't >get the error. Thank goodness! Um... how does one "flip to structured"? Karen
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Edit > Preferences > General - look for Kapil Verma's post on the workaround. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Karen Robbins Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:21 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop At 12:00 PM -0500 9/27/12, Jeff Coatsworth wrote (about the printing problem): >They're working on it - I just got an e-mail from my contact at >Adobe and they've recreated the issue with a sample book I gave >them. There is a workaround - flip to Structured FM and you don't >get the error. Thank goodness! Um... how does one "flip to structured"? Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatsworth at jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Dear framers: I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did. I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you are a student, it would be better to buy TCS2, even though Adobe has stopped support for this product. To sum up. Framemaker 11 has been upgraded for structured documentation not unstructured. 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. 2. Forget about online support. 3. Do without Photoshop. 4. Forget about timely patches As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker Perhaps the FrameMaker accountants are fighting with the programmers and engineers. Less is more. I believe that FM is a great product, but the writing is on the wall. The view from Norton: Few users: slightly unstable. Rob Shell Windows Seven FrameMaker 9 patched 4 GB RAM 3 TB hd ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while I hate bugs like a plague Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish hotfixes beside regular patches. As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
I'd have to agree with Dieter on this one Rob - a number of us beta testers of TCS made the comment about what, no PS? in TCS4, but the more I think about it as a TCS3 user, the more it makes sense - I hardly ever used PS in my workflows. I did confirm that upgrading to TCS4 does preserve your PS install, so for upgraders, it will still be around. I think if you were a heavy PS user, you probably used it more with the Creative Suite apps like InDesign or Dreamweaver than you would have tech writing. Support with Adobe is always hit or miss - if you can connect with someone who really cares, things can get resolved. I've had a couple of my long standing issues resolved with TCS4 (of course, I have also encountered new issues - like the print book to pdf bug LOL). The best deal is to get an upgrade contract that now includes support thrown in - it's a good deal. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Gust, Dieter Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:59 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while I hate bugs like a plague Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish hotfixes beside regular patches. As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Gust, Dieter dieter.g...@itl.eu wrote: From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while I hate bugs like a plague Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish hotfixes beside regular patches. As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
As for editing images, even though I have CS 5, most of the time I use Paint Shop Pro (≈$100). Obviously, I have simpler photographic needs than many other people. I prefer Paint Shop Pro, too. Photoshop is usually overkill for me. Maybe it's because we're Canadian, Allison. =D Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Getting Illustrator makes upgrading from TCS 3.5 to 4 considerably more appealing, not that I plan to. I have Photoshop but it's overkill for my needs. I would never spend a dime on it. There are freeware bitmap editors that do everything I need from Photoshop. You really can't print books from FrameMaker 11? That's a pretty dreadful bug, but I always save as PDF and print from that anyway. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
One of the reasons I never seriously looked at the TCS was because it included Photoshop (which I almost never use) but excluded Illustrator (which I use frequently). As it couldn't replace my go to program in CS 5, it was a non-starter. As for editing images, even though I have CS 5, most of the time I use Paint Shop Pro (≈ $100). Obviously, I have simpler photographic needs than many other people. As for FM11 not being able to reliably print to book, that makes it a non-starter for me until that bug is fixed and field tested as I have to print to book and distill due to mixed page sizes in one of most important manual suites. Besides, having to use a workaround for a simple, obvious and necessary thing like printing, reflects very badly on Adobe's testing team. Alison From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:58 AM To: Gust, Dieter Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.commailto:art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.comhttp://www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Gust, Dieter dieter.g...@itl.eumailto:dieter.g...@itl.eu wrote: From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while I hate bugs like a plague Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish hotfixes beside regular patches. As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.commailto:art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.commailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http
Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
It's never been an either/or selection for me. I started my career as a technical illustrator and use both Illustrator and Photoshop extensively in my work. I can appreciate that most of you work in the software field, where screen grabs are pretty much the extent of your graphic work. However, there are still many of us working writing manuals for mechanical components. We require far more sophisticated tools for illustration than screen grabbing software. I will admit I dislike the TCS model intensely, especially since I already own the Creative Suite. Why is it so much more expensive? Why can't I buy a basic suite and add components as I need them for a fraction of the cost of the individual software packages? It's not like I have much of a use for Robohelp anyway. Just my two-cents. Bernard Gagne From: Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com To: Gust, Dieter dieter.g...@itl.eu Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:57:40 AM Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Gust, Dieter dieter.g...@itl.eu wrote: From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while I hate bugs like a plague Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish hotfixes beside regular patches. As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as bernyga...@rogers.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers
Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
At 12:00 PM -0500 9/26/12, Rob Shell wrote: Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. and Gust, Dieter answered: You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. Has there been any word on a fix? I prefer to print to a physical printer from the book PDF, but others in my group don't. Can one still print a book to a .ps file for external distilling in unstructured FM11? Thanks, Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
I think TSC4 should have INCLUDED Illustrator, not replaced Photoshop--but then, Adobe didn't ask me... In my experience, more users will benefit more from AI, than PS. Screen captures are mostly processed in SnagIt or similar program, making PS overkill for those images. For image editing, Photoshop Elements is surprisingly full-featured compared with its cost. Most users are fine with RGB images (an RGB PDF can be converted to CMYK in Acrobat Pro if necessary). Luckily, TCS3 users can leave PS installed. As far as bugs go, Suites are a marketing tool and are released on a pre-determined schedule. If one program is holding up the Suite, then the software is often released with known bugs or features are left out until the next upgrade. Just a fact of life for software users, especially Adobe's. However, bug fixes eventually do happen--obviously, not as fast for someone stung by a bug, but they do happen. Another unfortunate fact of life is that when a new version comes out (expect TCS4.5 if the rumored Acrobat 11 comes out), bug fixes often stop for older versions of the software. So if Frame 11.5 comes out, I wouldn't expect too many major updates for 11. I like Suites for the cost savings, but dislike them for the get it out the door even if it's not ready approach. New Frame versions always take a while to pick up steam. Many government agencies are still using Frame 7. David Creamer IDEAS Training http://www.ideastraining.com Adobe Authorized Instructor Certified Expert since 1995 Authorized Frame Consultant since 1991 I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did. I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you are a student, it would be better to buy TCS2, even though Adobe has stopped support for this product. To sum up. Framemaker 11 has been upgraded for structured documentation not unstructured. 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. 2. Forget about online support. 3. Do without Photoshop. 4. Forget about timely patches As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker Perhaps the FrameMaker accountants are fighting with the programmers and engineers. Less is more. I believe that FM is a great product, but the writing is on the wall. The view from Norton: Few users: slightly unstable. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
They're working on it - I just got an e-mail from my contact at Adobe and they've recreated the issue with a sample book I gave them. There is a workaround - flip to Structured FM and you don't get the error. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:41 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Getting Illustrator makes upgrading from TCS 3.5 to 4 considerably more appealing, not that I plan to. I have Photoshop but it's overkill for my needs. I would never spend a dime on it. There are freeware bitmap editors that do everything I need from Photoshop. You really can't print books from FrameMaker 11? That's a pretty dreadful bug, but I always save as PDF and print from that anyway. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
No, in Unstructured mode, the Print Book command crashes FM. The workaround for now is to switch to Structured FM mode to print the book. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Karen Robbins Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:38 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop At 12:00 PM -0500 9/26/12, Rob Shell wrote: Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. and Gust, Dieter answered: You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. Has there been any word on a fix? I prefer to print to a physical printer from the book PDF, but others in my group don't. Can one still print a book to a .ps file for external distilling in unstructured FM11? Thanks, Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Hi Bernard, I agree. I own the Creative Suite as well and it's frustrating having overlap of the applications. It's less expensive to buy the suites in the first place, but when you only want to upgrade one of the components, you can't do it. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-283-5045 r...@frameexpert.com It's never been an either/or selection for me. I started my career as a technical illustrator and use both Illustrator and Photoshop extensively in my work. I can appreciate that most of you work in the software field, where screen grabs are pretty much the extent of your graphic work. However, there are still many of us working writing manuals for mechanical components. We require far more sophisticated tools for illustration than screen grabbing software. I will admit I dislike the TCS model intensely, especially since I already own the Creative Suite. Why is it so much more expensive? Why can't I buy a basic suite and add components as I need them for a fraction of the cost of the individual software packages? It's not like I have much of a use for Robohelp anyway. Just my two-cents. Bernard Gagne ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Dear framers: I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did. I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you are a student, it would be better to buy TCS2, even though Adobe has stopped support for this product. To sum up. Framemaker 11 has been upgraded for structured documentation not unstructured. 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. 2. Forget about online support. 3. Do without Photoshop. 4. Forget about timely patches As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker Perhaps the FrameMaker accountants are fighting with the programmers and engineers. Less is more. I believe that FM is a great product, but the writing is on the wall. The view from Norton: Few users: slightly unstable. Rob Shell Windows Seven FrameMaker 9 patched 4 GB RAM 3 TB hd
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop > I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially > if you are a first-time buyer. > TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did > I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has > mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . > 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. > 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. > 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. > 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while "I hate bugs like a plague" Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish "hotfixes" beside regular patches. > As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic > cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
I'd have to agree with Dieter on this one Rob - a number of us beta testers of TCS made the comment about "what, no PS?" in TCS4, but the more I think about it as a TCS3 user, the more it makes sense - I hardly ever used PS in my workflows. I did confirm that upgrading to TCS4 does preserve your PS install, so for upgraders, it will still be around. I think if you were a heavy PS user, you probably used it more with the Creative Suite apps like InDesign or Dreamweaver than you would have tech writing. Support with Adobe is always hit or miss - if you can connect with someone who really cares, things can get resolved. I've had a couple of my long standing issues resolved with TCS4 (of course, I have also encountered new issues - like the print book to pdf bug LOL). The best deal is to get an upgrade contract that now includes support thrown in - it's a good deal. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Gust, Dieter Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:59 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop > I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially > if you are a first-time buyer. > TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did > I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has > mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . > 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. > 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. > 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. > 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while "I hate bugs like a plague" Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish "hotfixes" beside regular patches. > As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic > cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatsworth at jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Gust, Dieter wrote: > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto: > framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM > Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop > > > I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, > especially if you are a first-time buyer. > > TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did > > I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer > has mentioned this. > If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. > > If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, > RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop > (!!) are the better choice. . > > > 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. > You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in > structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. > Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. > > > 2. Forget about online support. > Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and > customer feedback from all over the world. > While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account > side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and > workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and > valuable feedback to almost any problem. > > > 3. Do without Photoshop. > Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think > cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should > fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is > included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to > Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. > > > 4. Forget about timely patches > Why? > The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, > and while "I hate bugs like a plague" Adobe delivers patches as soon as > possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like > Microsoft in order to establish "hotfixes" beside regular patches. > > > As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic > cutting down of FrameMaker > If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the > commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. > But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be > much too little. > Dieter Gust > itl AG, Munich > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/attachments/20120926/f32c168f/attachment.html>
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
One of the reasons I never seriously looked at the TCS was because it included Photoshop (which I almost never use) but excluded Illustrator (which I use frequently). As it couldn't replace my go to program in CS 5, it was a non-starter. As for editing images, even though I have CS 5, most of the time I use Paint Shop Pro (? $100). Obviously, I have simpler photographic needs than many other people. As for FM11 not being able to reliably print to book, that makes it a non-starter for me until that bug is fixed and field tested as I have to print to book and distill due to mixed page sizes in one of most important manual suites. Besides, having to use a workaround for a simple, obvious and necessary thing like printing, reflects very badly on Adobe's testing team. Alison From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:58 AM To: Gust, Dieter Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com<mailto:art.campbell at gmail.com> "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com<http://www.TheGrotonLine.com>, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Gust, Dieter mailto:Dieter.Gust at itl.eu>> wrote: From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop > I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially > if you are a first-time buyer. > TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did > I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has > mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . > 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. > 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. > 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. > 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while "I hate bugs like a plague" Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish "hotfixes" beside regular patches. > As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic > cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campbell at gmail.com<mailto:art.campbell at gmail.com>. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com> or visit http://li
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
At 12:00 PM -0500 9/26/12, Rob Shell wrote: >Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop >1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. and Gust, Dieter answered: >You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book >in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. >Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. Has there been any word on a fix? I prefer to print to a physical printer from the book PDF, but others in my group don't. Can one still print a book to a .ps file for external distilling in unstructured FM11? Thanks, Karen
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Robo ScreenCapture might work if you are documenting software. Some technical writers aren't documenting software. I document hardware and the only way I can illustrate many things is with the camera. I definitely need PhotoShop. This comes as a bummer for me. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Gust, Dieter Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:59 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop > I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially > if you are a first-time buyer. > TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did > I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has > mentioned this. If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture and Illustrator which are included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better choice. . > 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. > 2. Forget about online support. Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and customer feedback from all over the world. While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to almost any problem. > 3. Do without Photoshop. Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK so I think cheap software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator which is now included in TCS4. > 4. Forget about timely patches Why? The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and while "I hate bugs like a plague" Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in order to establish "hotfixes" beside regular patches. > As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic > cutting down of FrameMaker If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be much too little. Dieter Gust itl AG, Munich ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as bethany.lee at lakeshore.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bethany.lee%40lakeshore.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Getting Illustrator makes upgrading from TCS 3.5 to 4 considerably more appealing, not that I plan to. I have Photoshop but it's overkill for my needs. I would never spend a dime on it. There are freeware bitmap editors that do everything I need from Photoshop. You really can't print books from FrameMaker 11? That's a pretty dreadful bug, but I always save as PDF and print from that anyway.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
It's never been an either/or selection for me. I started my career as a technical illustrator and use both Illustrator and Photoshop extensively in my work. I can appreciate that most of you work in the software field, where screen grabs are pretty much the extent of your graphic work. However, there are still many of us working writing manuals for mechanical components. We require far more sophisticated tools for illustration than screen grabbing software. I will admit I dislike the TCS model intensely, especially since I already own the Creative Suite. Why is it so much more expensive? Why can't I buy a basic suite and add components as I need them for a fraction of the cost of the individual software packages? It's not like I have much of a use for Robohelp anyway. Just my two-cents. Bernard Gagne From: Art Campbell To: "Gust, Dieter" Cc: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:57:40 AM Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Illustrator is a better choice as a component? Really? Ever try editing hundreds of screen snaps for software documentation in Illustrator? Either it's a significant mistake by the marketing team, or a significant win by the marketing team as it greatly increases Photoshop licenses Art Campbell? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? art.campbell at gmail.com ? "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? No disclaimers apply. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Gust, Dieter wrote: From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rob Shell >Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM >Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop > > >> ?I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, >> especially if you are a first-time buyer. >> TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did > >> I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has >> mentioned this. >If you really need Photoshop, I understand you. > >If you think of typical technical documentation use cases, RoboScreenCapture >and Illustrator which are ?included instead of Photoshop (!!) are the better >choice. . > > >> 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. >You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book in >structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. >Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. > > >> 2. Forget about online support. >Why? Online support always is a combination of official Adobe feedback and >customer feedback from all over the world. >While an official Adobe feedback always will have to take into account side >effects and therefore must be careful with hastily tips and workarounds, a lot >of well-known experts in framers are giving fast and valuable feedback to >almost any problem. > >> 3. Do without Photoshop. >Most technical documentation use cases don't deal with CMYK ?so I think cheap >software or freeware (Photoshop Elements, IrfanView...) should fulfill the >demands. For screenshots RoboScreenCapture (which is good) is included in >TCS4. A lot of customers asked for switching from Photoshop to Illustrator >which is now included in TCS4. > > >> 4. Forget about timely patches >Why? >The Adobe TCS team is always seeking dedicated contact to TCS customers, and >while "I hate bugs like ?a plague" Adobe delivers patches as soon as possible. >O.K. The Adobe team might think about a similar approach like Microsoft in >order to establish "hotfixes" beside regular patches. > > >> As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic >> cutting down of FrameMaker >If you think of licenses I fear you may be right but if you think of the >commitment of Adobe this has increased from year to year. >But indeed to compete with InDesign and Word the commitment might still be >much too little. >Dieter Gust >itl AG, Munich > >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > >Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > >Send administrative questions to
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
>As for editing images, even though I have CS 5, most of the time I use Paint >Shop Pro (?$100). Obviously, I have simpler photographic needs than many other >people. I prefer Paint Shop Pro, too. Photoshop is usually overkill for me. Maybe it's because we're Canadian, Allison. =D Nadine
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
I think TSC4 should have INCLUDED Illustrator, not replaced Photoshop--but then, Adobe didn't ask me... In my experience, more users will benefit more from AI, than PS. Screen captures are mostly processed in SnagIt or similar program, making PS overkill for those images. For image editing, Photoshop Elements is surprisingly full-featured compared with its cost. Most users are fine with RGB images (an RGB PDF can be converted to CMYK in Acrobat Pro if necessary). Luckily, TCS3 users can leave PS installed. As far as bugs go, Suites are a marketing tool and are released on a pre-determined schedule. If one program is holding up the Suite, then the software is often released with known bugs or features are left out until the next upgrade. Just a fact of life for software users, especially Adobe's. However, bug fixes eventually do happen--obviously, not as fast for someone stung by a bug, but they do happen. Another unfortunate fact of life is that when a new version comes out (expect TCS4.5 if the rumored Acrobat 11 comes out), bug fixes often stop for older versions of the software. So if Frame 11.5 comes out, I wouldn't expect too many major updates for 11. I like Suites for the cost savings, but dislike them for the "get it out the door even if it's not ready" approach. New Frame versions always take a while to pick up steam. Many government agencies are still using Frame 7. David Creamer IDEAS Training http://www.ideastraining.com Adobe Authorized Instructor & Certified Expert since 1995 Authorized Frame Consultant since 1991 I must add that I have found another disadvantage to buying TCS4, especially if you are a first-time buyer. TCS4 does not include Photoshop, whereas TCS2 does, or did. I must confess that I find it odd that Adobe and not a single reviewer has mentioned this. If you are a student, it would be better to buy TCS2, even though Adobe has stopped support for this product. To sum up. Framemaker 11 has been upgraded for structured documentation not unstructured. 1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. 2. Forget about online support. 3. Do without Photoshop. 4. Forget about timely patches As a user of many programs over the years, what I see here is a drastic cutting down of FrameMaker Perhaps the FrameMaker accountants are fighting with the programmers and engineers. Less is more. I believe that FM is a great product, but the writing is on the wall. The view from Norton: Few users: slightly unstable.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
They're working on it - I just got an e-mail from my contact at Adobe and they've recreated the issue with a sample book I gave them. There is a workaround - flip to Structured FM and you don't get the error. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:41 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop Getting Illustrator makes upgrading from TCS 3.5 to 4 considerably more appealing, not that I plan to. I have Photoshop but it's overkill for my needs. I would never spend a dime on it. There are freeware bitmap editors that do everything I need from Photoshop. You really can't print books from FrameMaker 11? That's a pretty dreadful bug, but I always save as PDF and print from that anyway. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatsworth at jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
No, in Unstructured mode, the Print Book command crashes FM. The workaround for now is to switch to Structured FM mode to print the book. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Karen Robbins Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:38 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop At 12:00 PM -0500 9/26/12, Rob Shell wrote: >Subject: More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop >1. One cannot print a book in unstructured FM11. and Gust, Dieter answered: >You refer to a bug, which is really annoying, but printing the book >in structured mode might be a suitable workaround for the short. >Save the book as PDF file is working in unstructured mode. Has there been any word on a fix? I prefer to print to a physical printer from the book PDF, but others in my group don't. Can one still print a book to a .ps file for external distilling in unstructured FM11? Thanks, Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatsworth at jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Hi Bernard, I agree. I own the Creative Suite as well and it's frustrating having overlap of the applications. It's less expensive to buy the suites in the first place, but when you only want to upgrade one of the components, you can't do it. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-283-5045 rick at frameexpert.com It's never been an either/or selection for me. I started my career as a technical illustrator and use both Illustrator and Photoshop extensively in my work. I can appreciate that most of you work in the software field, where screen grabs are pretty much the extent of your graphic work. However, there are still many of us working writing manuals for mechanical components. We require far more sophisticated tools for illustration than screen grabbing software. I will admit I dislike the TCS model intensely, especially since I already own the Creative Suite. Why is it so much more expensive? Why can't I buy a basic suite and add components as I need them for a fraction of the cost of the individual software packages? It's not like I have much of a use for Robohelp anyway. Just my two-cents. Bernard Gagne
More bad news on TCS4: no longer includes Photoshop
Somebody here reported a bug in printing to .ps. I gave up on printing to anything other than Adobe PDF because I'd constantly forget to change the printer back and end up with errors in generating PDF. Definitely saves me time in the long run never to print directly. How about Adobe enhancing Save As PDF so you could set it to always use a selected printer definition instead of the current printer? I don't expect that to happen given that from FM8 on close to zero of the feature enhancements have improved the experience of everyday, experienced unstructured-mode users. On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Karen Robbins wrote: > Can one still print a book to a .ps file for external distilling in > unstructured FM11?
