RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Although InDesign has built-in scripting, the FrameMaker/FrameScript combination is much faster for automation. InDesign's scripting tools are built in, not extra-cost third-party items. Um, yeah ... that's what he said. Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi Peter, I am comparing component chapter files in a catalog with lots of data. We used InDesign CS4. Although we don’t have a version of the catalog in FrameMaker for direct comparison, experience tells me that the performance would be better in any recent version of FrameMaker. The fact that InDesign scripting is built in doesn’t affect my business; I make money writing scripts, not selling scripting tools. Based on my experience, InDesign scripting performance with JavaScript is poor compared to FrameScript/FrameMaker performance, particularly for more complex tasks. When you using automation, the cost for a third-party tool can be recovered quickly if there are significant gains in performance. This is not to say that I don’t like InDesign; it is a great tool with many nice features. But I would be cautious about moving to InDesign from FrameMaker unless there is a compelling reason for doing so. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:39 PM To: Rick Quatro Cc: Tina Ricks; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, Rick: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Hi Tina, I have found InDesign's performance to be sluggish with long documents. Are you comparing books with component chapter files, or single-file long documents? And, which release of InDesign compared to which release of FrameMaker? Although InDesign has built-in scripting, the FrameMaker/FrameScript combination is much faster for automation. InDesign's scripting tools are built in, not extra-cost third-party items. Although it's obviously not a good thing for your business, there's a great quantity of free InDesign scripts out there. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small publisher, and using it because I know it and I'm familiar with it. I currently use Frame 8, and I'm considering an upgrade to either Frame 9 or InDesign. I've read that InDesign CS4 recently added cross references. Does anyone know how they compare to Frame's feature? Also, what about creating an index in InDesign. What features does it have for dynamic indexing? Thanks. Tina Ricks | Managing Editor | Trial Guides www.trialguides.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi, Rick: Thanks for the detailed reply. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Hi Peter, I am comparing component chapter files in a catalog with lots of data. We used InDesign CS4. Although we don’t have a version of the catalog in FrameMaker for direct comparison, experience tells me that the performance would be better in any recent version of FrameMaker. Have you evaluated the performance of the catalog tools made for InDesign? The fact that InDesign scripting is built in doesn’t affect my business; I make money writing scripts, not selling scripting tools. I was thinking about the many free InDesign scripts; I don't know how this compares to free FrameScript scripts. Based on my experience, InDesign scripting performance with JavaScript is poor compared to FrameScript/FrameMaker performance, particularly for more complex tasks. Inefficient coding is common. When you using automation, the cost for a third-party tool can be recovered quickly if there are significant gains in performance. Agreed. This is not to say that I don’t like InDesign; it is a great tool with many nice features. But I would be cautious about moving to InDesign from FrameMaker unless there is a compelling reason for doing so. Two popular reasons are the significantly better typography controls, and the better graphics features; ID's drawing tools are quite advanced vs. FM, and there's more power in manipulating imported graphics. The graphic features overlap Photoshop to some degree; the advantage here is staying inside one application to use them. With TCS2 including the full Photoshop application, more is more for sure. Compelling is subjective, I agree. Usually, technical documentation's communication of information doesn't improve significantly because of more-sophisticatedly composed type, but for some publishers or publications, masterful typesetting is a compelling requirement. Perhaps Tina's list of requirements will provide more information for comparing the applications and their suitability. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com *From:* knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Gold *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:39 PM *To:* Rick Quatro *Cc:* Tina Ricks; framers@lists.frameusers.com *Subject:* Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, Rick: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Hi Tina, I have found InDesign's performance to be sluggish with long documents. Are you comparing books with component chapter files, or single-file long documents? And, which release of InDesign compared to which release of FrameMaker? Although InDesign has built-in scripting, the FrameMaker/FrameScript combination is much faster for automation. InDesign's scripting tools are built in, not extra-cost third-party items. Although it's obviously not a good thing for your business, there's a great quantity of free InDesign scripts out there. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small publisher, and using it because I know it and I'm familiar with it. I currently use Frame 8, and I'm considering an upgrade to either Frame 9 or InDesign. I've read that InDesign CS4 recently added cross references. Does anyone know how they compare to Frame's feature? Also, what about creating an index in InDesign. What features does it have for dynamic indexing? Thanks. Tina Ricks | Managing Editor | Trial Guides www.trialguides.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
I have two PDFs: One comparing InDesign CS4, FrameMaker 9, and QuarkXPress 8 http://www.ideastraining.com/PDFs/SelectingDTPprogram_v2.pdf The older one comparing InDesign CS3, FrameMaker 8, and QuarkXPress 7 http://www.ideastraining.com/PDFs/SelectingDTPprogram.pdf What program one chooses greatly depends on the type of projects one will work on. If one is working on a large variety of projects--such as books, newsletters, brochures, and proposals--I would look hard at InDesign. If strictly working with larger book-type projects, one has to look at the features of each program vs. what is needed (such as typographic quality or column-spanning heads). Another thing to look at is the equipment one has; typically InDesign requires more computing power and RAM to run smoothly compared to FrameMaker. David Creamer IDEAS Training Consultation http://www.IDEAStraining.com Adobe Certified Trainer for Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, InDesign, InCopy, FrameMaker, Dreamweaver, Premiere, GoLive, and PageMaker Authorized Quark Training Provider Enfocus PitStop, Markzware FlightCheck, FileMaker Authorized Trainer ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
One feature to remember is the pool of talent available to maintain the docs if you are unable to. I know I (or my intern) can find in my current Rolodex FM users who could take over my docs if I get hit by a bus. At this time I could not do the same for InDesign users, so I would have to build that network, too. john -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:57 AM To: Rick Quatro Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, Rick: Thanks for the detailed reply. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Hi Peter, I am comparing component chapter files in a catalog with lots of data. We used InDesign CS4. Although we don't have a version of the catalog in FrameMaker for direct comparison, experience tells me that the performance would be better in any recent version of FrameMaker. Have you evaluated the performance of the catalog tools made for InDesign? The fact that InDesign scripting is built in doesn't affect my business; I make money writing scripts, not selling scripting tools. I was thinking about the many free InDesign scripts; I don't know how this compares to free FrameScript scripts. Based on my experience, InDesign scripting performance with JavaScript is poor compared to FrameScript/FrameMaker performance, particularly for more complex tasks. Inefficient coding is common. When you using automation, the cost for a third-party tool can be recovered quickly if there are significant gains in performance. Agreed. This is not to say that I don't like InDesign; it is a great tool with many nice features. But I would be cautious about moving to InDesign from FrameMaker unless there is a compelling reason for doing so. Two popular reasons are the significantly better typography controls, and the better graphics features; ID's drawing tools are quite advanced vs. FM, and there's more power in manipulating imported graphics. The graphic features overlap Photoshop to some degree; the advantage here is staying inside one application to use them. With TCS2 including the full Photoshop application, more is more for sure. Compelling is subjective, I agree. Usually, technical documentation's communication of information doesn't improve significantly because of more-sophisticatedly composed type, but for some publishers or publications, masterful typesetting is a compelling requirement. Perhaps Tina's list of requirements will provide more information for comparing the applications and their suitability. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com *From:* knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Gold *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:39 PM *To:* Rick Quatro *Cc:* Tina Ricks; framers@lists.frameusers.com *Subject:* Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, Rick: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Hi Tina, I have found InDesign's performance to be sluggish with long documents. Are you comparing books with component chapter files, or single-file long documents? And, which release of InDesign compared to which release of FrameMaker? Although InDesign has built-in scripting, the FrameMaker/FrameScript combination is much faster for automation. InDesign's scripting tools are built in, not extra-cost third-party items. Although it's obviously not a good thing for your business, there's a great quantity of free InDesign scripts out there. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small publisher, and using it because I know it and I'm familiar with it. I currently use Frame 8, and I'm considering an upgrade to either Frame 9 or InDesign. I've read that InDesign CS4 recently added cross references. Does anyone know how they compare to Frame's feature? Also, what about creating an index in InDesign. What features does it have for dynamic indexing? Thanks. Tina Ricks | Managing Editor | Trial Guides www.trialguides.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgamm...@imprivata.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivat a.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more
Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi, John: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:03 PM, John Sgammato jsgamm...@imprivata.comwrote: One feature to remember is the pool of talent available to maintain the docs if you are unable to. I know I (or my intern) can find in my current Rolodex FM users who could take over my docs if I get hit by a bus. Always remember to stop, look, and listen, while walking and driving.G At this time I could not do the same for InDesign users, so I would have to build that network, too. Sounds like a good opportunity for a book on InDesign for FrameMaker users. Hmmm... Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
I'd buy it. I use both, and I know I underutilize INDD. From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:48 PM To: John Sgammato Cc: Rick Quatro; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, John: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:03 PM, John Sgammato jsgamm...@imprivata.com wrote: One feature to remember is the pool of talent available to maintain the docs if you are unable to. I know I (or my intern) can find in my current Rolodex FM users who could take over my docs if I get hit by a bus. Always remember to stop, look, and listen, while walking and driving.G At this time I could not do the same for InDesign users, so I would have to build that network, too. Sounds like a good opportunity for a book on InDesign for FrameMaker users. Hmmm... Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Me too. There are couple of projects that I have thought might be better done in ID because of the quality of type and problems I have had in the past with RGB artefacts in PDFs (I do get sick of having to tell prepress people how to do their job). I guess it is mainly ignorance and lack of time to sit down and nut through the process that has stopped me but with where ID has gone in CS4 (will go in CS5?) and where FM has gone in 9 I am seeing less difference between the products for the kind of work I do. Alan On 23/10/2009, at 8:59 AM, John Sgammato wrote: I'd buy it. I use both, and I know I underutilize INDD. From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:48 PM To: John Sgammato Cc: Rick Quatro; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, John: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:03 PM, John Sgammato jsgamm...@imprivata.com wrote: One feature to remember is the pool of talent available to maintain the docs if you are unable to. I know I (or my intern) can find in my current Rolodex FM users who could take over my docs if I get hit by a bus. Always remember to stop, look, and listen, while walking and driving.G At this time I could not do the same for InDesign users, so I would have to build that network, too. Sounds like a good opportunity for a book on InDesign for FrameMaker users. Hmmm... Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Wow! I better get pushing on with the ID for FM users book, now that it looks like I've got a few copies on folks' wish listsG. Thanks for the interest, everyone. I'll keep you posted as I progress. I'd like to hear about your specific interests and reasons/features present or missing in one or the other product that motivate you to consider the changeover. If you'd like to write me privately, use this address: id4fm at knowhowpro dot com. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nzwrote: Me too. There are couple of projects that I have thought might be better done in ID because of the quality of type and problems I have had in the past with RGB artefacts in PDFs (I do get sick of having to tell prepress people how to do their job). I guess it is mainly ignorance and lack of time to sit down and nut through the process that has stopped me but with where ID has gone in CS4 (will go in CS5?) and where FM has gone in 9 I am seeing less difference between the products for the kind of work I do. Alan On 23/10/2009, at 8:59 AM, John Sgammato wrote: I'd buy it. I use both, and I know I underutilize INDD. From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:48 PM To: John Sgammato Cc: Rick Quatro; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign Hi, John: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:03 PM, John Sgammato jsgamm...@imprivata.com wrote: One feature to remember is the pool of talent available to maintain the docs if you are unable to. I know I (or my intern) can find in my current Rolodex FM users who could take over my docs if I get hit by a bus. Always remember to stop, look, and listen, while walking and driving.G At this time I could not do the same for InDesign users, so I would have to build that network, too. Sounds like a good opportunity for a book on InDesign for FrameMaker users. Hmmm... Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi Tina Here is a summary that someone posted on the Framers list a few months back (with acknowledgments to the author): Comparison of FrameMaker and InDesign Generally, unless you are using heavy XML (InDesign does XML but not as advanced) or DITA (which ID does not support), it is a heated race. If you are doing advanced XML or DITA, then FrameMaker is the way to go. Frame's conditions are slightly more advanced in that they can be applied to table rows; ID's conditions can only be applied to the entire table. Other condition features are similar. ID's Indexing is slightly easier with use of it's topic list in the Index panel, but I believe that ID only allows one index per book. ID supports advanced OpenType formatting (and OT fonts are cross-platform, so you could use ID on Windows). As mentioned, ID is more sophisticated in the typography and layout departments. ID has GREP find/change, GREP supported formatting, nested styles. ID cannot span columns with subheads if working with a multi-column layouts, and does not have run-in heads. InDesign's table styles are more complicated, but more advanced above Frame's. ID is more advanced when importing Excel files, plus ID can link to Excel files for auto-updates. ID's table styles do not contain any geometry (size) information, but there is a plug-in available for that, and to not generate automatic table titles as part of the table style. Frame's variables are slightly more advanced, especially when concerning using character styles. (ID does not have the table continuation variable). InDesign has a separate product called InCopy for allowing others to edit text while the InDesign file is being worked on. (InDesign can handle all the text edits too.) InCopy can be used to generate new text, as can Word. InDesign's PDF export functions are more advanced. (Current versions of CS3 and CS4 do not have a size issue with PDFs.) This is not a complete comparison by any means, but should be enough (with the other posts) to form an opinion. Some FrameMaker features have no exact ID counterparts; for example, run-in paragraphs and side headings. These are converted with whatever fudging is necessary to visually match the FrameMaker layouts. If editing the converted documents causes text to reflow, you may need to give individual attention to these simulated FrameMaker features. Template design is non-trivial. If you have an existing FrameMaker template, it could save a lot of time to just continue using it. There is a converter for MIF files to ID at: http://www.dtptools.com/product.asp?id=mfid.There is a comparison chart (not including FrameMaker 9.0) at: http://www.ideastraining.com/PDFs/SelectingDTPprogram.pdf. Hope this helps. Roger Shuttleworth London, Canada -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tina Ricks Sent: October 21, 2009 2:22 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: FM 9 vs. InDesign Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small publisher, and using it because I know it and I'm familiar with it. I currently use Frame 8, and I'm considering an upgrade to either Frame 9 or InDesign. I've read that InDesign CS4 recently added cross references. Does anyone know how they compare to Frame's feature? Also, what about creating an index in InDesign. What features does it have for dynamic indexing? Thanks. Tina Ricks | Managing Editor | Trial Guides www.trialguides.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as roger_shuttlewo...@tvworks.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/roger_shuttleworth%40tvworks.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi, Tina: In addition to Roger's inclusion of David Creamer's FrameMaker InDesign comparison notes, I've posted comments in the past, that you can see in the several posts on the thread at: http://www.mail-archive.com/framers@lists.frameusers.com/msg16576.html It would be helpful if you could list which FrameMaker features you absolutely must find in FrameMaker 9.x, and/or any new InDesign version, that you will base your choice upon. Keep in mind that InDesign CS4 has been out for some time, and Adobe's 18-month (more or less) upgrade cycle will be in the picture sometime soon. Each recent InDesign release has included more long-document features that FrameMaker users value highly, so if you don't need to commit to a decision in the short term, it may be worth waiting for the next InDesign release to see if any of your must-have wish-list features that aren't available in InDesign CS4 have been included. On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Shuttleworth, Roger roger_shuttlewo...@tvworks.com wrote: Hi Tina Here is a summary that someone posted on the Framers list a few months back (with acknowledgments to the author): Comparison of FrameMaker and InDesign Generally, unless you are using heavy XML (InDesign does XML but not as advanced) or DITA (which ID does not support), it is a heated race. If you are doing advanced XML or DITA, then FrameMaker is the way to go. Frame's conditions are slightly more advanced in that they can be applied to table rows; ID's conditions can only be applied to the entire table. Other condition features are similar. PG: ID saves sets of conditions that you can turn on or off with one click, has smarter condition indicators for multiple conditions. ID's Indexing is slightly easier with use of it's topic list in the Index panel, but I believe that ID only allows one index per book. PG: There's a not-too-complicated workaround for multiple indexes. ID supports advanced OpenType formatting (and OT fonts are cross-platform, so you could use ID on Windows). As mentioned, ID is more sophisticated in the typography and layout departments. ID has GREP find/change, GREP supported formatting, nested styles. ID cannot span columns with subheads if working with a multi-column layouts, and does not have run-in heads. InDesign's table styles are more complicated, but more advanced above Frame's. ID is more advanced when importing Excel files, plus ID can link to Excel files for auto-updates. ID's table styles do not contain any geometry (size) information, but there is a plug-in available for that, and to not generate automatic table titles as part of the table style. Frame's variables are slightly more advanced, especially when concerning using character styles. (ID does not have the table continuation variable). InDesign has a separate product called InCopy for allowing others to edit text while the InDesign file is being worked on. (InDesign can handle all the text edits too.) InCopy can be used to generate new text, as can Word. InDesign's PDF export functions are more advanced. (Current versions of CS3 and CS4 do not have a size issue with PDFs.) This is not a complete comparison by any means, but should be enough (with the other posts) to form an opinion. Some FrameMaker features have no exact ID counterparts; for example, run-in paragraphs and side headings. These are converted with whatever fudging is necessary to visually match the FrameMaker layouts. If editing the converted documents causes text to reflow, you may need to give individual attention to these simulated FrameMaker features. Template design is non-trivial. If you have an existing FrameMaker template, it could save a lot of time to just continue using it. PG: I think the above point is that template design in both applications is non-trivial, so sticking with FrameMaker might be less work than creating new templates in InDesign. There is a converter for MIF files to ID at: http://www.dtptools.com/product.asp?id=mfid.There is a comparison chart (not including FrameMaker 9.0) at: http://www.ideastraining.com/PDFs/SelectingDTPprogram.pdf. PG: The DTP tools converter can be very helpful in converting your FM templates to ID, but as mentioned above, the FM features that have no exact ID counterparts will be fudged to make the converted layouts as alike as possible. I reviewed this product in InDesign Magazine, December 2007 issue. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Hope this helps. Roger Shuttleworth London, Canada -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tina Ricks Sent: October 21, 2009 2:22 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: FM 9 vs. InDesign Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small
RE: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi Tina, I have found InDesign's performance to be sluggish with long documents. Although InDesign has built-in scripting, the FrameMaker/FrameScript combination is much faster for automation. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small publisher, and using it because I know it and I'm familiar with it. I currently use Frame 8, and I'm considering an upgrade to either Frame 9 or InDesign. I've read that InDesign CS4 recently added cross references. Does anyone know how they compare to Frame's feature? Also, what about creating an index in InDesign. What features does it have for dynamic indexing? Thanks. Tina Ricks | Managing Editor | Trial Guides www.trialguides.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FM 9 vs. InDesign
Hi, Rick: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote: Hi Tina, I have found InDesign's performance to be sluggish with long documents. Are you comparing books with component chapter files, or single-file long documents? And, which release of InDesign compared to which release of FrameMaker? Although InDesign has built-in scripting, the FrameMaker/FrameScript combination is much faster for automation. InDesign's scripting tools are built in, not extra-cost third-party items. Although it's obviously not a good thing for your business, there's a great quantity of free InDesign scripts out there. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com Can anyone point me to a thorough comparison list of features between FM9 and InDesign? I'm using Frame primarily for print books at a small publisher, and using it because I know it and I'm familiar with it. I currently use Frame 8, and I'm considering an upgrade to either Frame 9 or InDesign. I've read that InDesign CS4 recently added cross references. Does anyone know how they compare to Frame's feature? Also, what about creating an index in InDesign. What features does it have for dynamic indexing? Thanks. Tina Ricks | Managing Editor | Trial Guides www.trialguides.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
