RE: Color Output From Frame
Framers, Unfortunately I mentioned in the second paragraph the additive and subtractive color models backwards. RGB is the *additive* model, based on the addition of luminous colors. CMYK is a subtractive model, based on the absorption (subtraction) of complementary colors from (nominally) white light by pigments or inks. Thanks to Fred Ridder pointing out my typo. Best regards Jacob Schäffer | Chief Developer Grafikhuset (House of Graphics) Paradis Allé 22, Ramløse DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark Phone: +45 4439 4400 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Jacob Schäffer Sendt: 28. februar 2008 21:56 Til: Frame Users Cc: Mike Wickham Emne: RE: Color Output From Frame Framers, Framemaker 8 still rely on the Windows GDI or GDI+ kernel as most Windows applications do. This approach has a fantastic benefit: Speed. Especially speed in regard to application performance. Windows GDI or GDI+ are RGB or sRGB devices. This mean that Windows in general will work in 3 component subtractive color spaces such as RGB instead of 4 component additive color spaces such as CMYK. Although it's possible to configure color management in Windows you will NOT be able to define a CMYK color in Framemaker that will preserve its CMYK values as you defined them downstream. Even more impossible it would be to preserve SPOT colors as you define them. I have developed a solution that works fantastic in regard to precise *repair* conversion. It's called Grafikhuset Publi PDF with optimizer plug-in (http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/tech_components_optimizer _plugin.html). However, I wouldn't dream of selling it to users that are satisfied with the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to CMYK', since such users are simply not demanding enough in regard to color fidelity to qualify as Publi PDF Optimizer users. Such users automatically accept that a CMYK definition in Framemaker will be totally molestrated by conversion processes they don't control. Fine with me, but bear in mind that automatic CMYK - RGB - CMYK conversions are quite lossy, especially with colors that originally contained a Black component. In practise this K component will often end on the Y plate, but what the heck, it's CMYK :-) If you can live with that feel free to do so! The thing is, that CMYK or SPOT colors defined in Framemaker will print as RGB and the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to CMYK' will POTENTIALLY not bring back the *correct* CMYK values and DEFINITELY not the SPOT color values -- not even their CMYK counterparts. Grafikhuset Publi PDF is a quite expensive, but extremely reliable and fast solution to this specific color problem. With Grafikhuset Publi PDF you can setup color maps that *precisely* converts the Framemaker/GDI generated RGB to CMYK or SPOT as you originally defined in Framemaker and/or any imported EPS art (be careful with imported PDF art -- you may loose SPOT colors on-the-go). To understand the problem better, please see my article on the subject »Difficult PDF documents in prepress«: http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_d ocuments.html To download a fully functioning 30-day live trial: http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/download.htm. Quite a few Publi PDF users already monitor the FrameUsers e-mail list. Feel free to speak up with your track record/experience with Grafikhuset Publi PDF. Best regards Jacob Schäffer | Chief Developer Grafikhuset (House of Graphics) Paradis Allé 22, Ramløse DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark Phone: +45 4439 4400 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Mike Wickham Sendt: 28. februar 2008 18:32 Til: Scott White; Frame Users Emne: Re: Color Output From Frame Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker pages? Sadly, no. Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color output from Framemaker without having the printer giving you the, these colors are rgb, .. Is it graphics you are having problems with? If so, save them as .EPS files. When FrameMaker creates PostScript for distillation it passes everything through the Windows GDI. This converts graphics back to RGB. The exception is for .EPS files, which are passed around the GDI as is. CMYK will stay as CMYK. So I recommend that you use only .EPS format for graphics files. Also, in maker.ini, try this setting: GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=None You may also have an improper color management setting in Distiller. (Distiller also offers a Convert All Colors to CMYK option.) I seem to recall that having Tag Everything for Color
Color Output From Frame
Framers, Unfortunately I mentioned in the second paragraph the additive and subtractive color models backwards. RGB is the *additive* model, based on the addition of luminous colors. CMYK is a subtractive model, based on the absorption (subtraction) of complementary colors from (nominally) white light by pigments or inks. Thanks to Fred Ridder pointing out my typo. Best regards Jacob Sch?ffer | Chief Developer Grafikhuset (House of Graphics) Paradis All? 22, Raml?se DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark Phone: +45 4439 4400 Email: js at grafikhuset.dk Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af > Jacob Sch?ffer > Sendt: 28. februar 2008 21:56 > Til: Frame Users > Cc: Mike Wickham > Emne: RE: Color Output From Frame > > > Framers, > > Framemaker 8 still rely on the Windows GDI or GDI+ kernel as > most Windows applications do. This approach has a fantastic > benefit: Speed. Especially speed in regard to application performance. > > Windows GDI or GDI+ are RGB or sRGB devices. This mean that > Windows in general will work in 3 component subtractive color > spaces such as RGB instead of 4 component additive color > spaces such as CMYK. Although it's possible to configure > color management in Windows you will NOT be able to define a > CMYK color in Framemaker that will preserve its CMYK values > as you defined them downstream. Even more impossible it would > be to preserve SPOT colors as you define them. > > I have developed a solution that works fantastic in regard to > precise *repair* conversion. It's called Grafikhuset Publi > PDF with optimizer plug-in > (http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/tech_components_optimizer > _plugin.html). > > However, I wouldn't dream of selling it to users that are > satisfied with the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to > CMYK', since such users are simply not demanding enough in > regard to color fidelity to qualify as Publi PDF Optimizer > users. Such users automatically accept that a CMYK definition > in Framemaker will be totally molestrated by conversion > processes they don't control. Fine with me, but bear in mind > that automatic CMYK -> RGB -> CMYK conversions are quite > lossy, especially with colors that originally contained a > Black component. In practise this K component will often end > on the Y plate, but what the heck, it's CMYK :-) > > If you can live with that feel free to do so! > > The thing is, that CMYK or SPOT colors defined in Framemaker > will print as RGB and the Distiller built-in 'Convert All > Colors to CMYK' will POTENTIALLY not bring back the *correct* > CMYK values and DEFINITELY not the SPOT color values -- not > even their CMYK counterparts. > > Grafikhuset Publi PDF is a quite expensive, but extremely > reliable and fast solution to this specific color problem. > With Grafikhuset Publi PDF you can setup color maps that > *precisely* converts the Framemaker/GDI generated RGB to CMYK > or SPOT as you originally defined in Framemaker and/or any > imported EPS art (be careful with imported PDF art -- you may > loose SPOT colors on-the-go). > > To understand the problem better, please see my article on > the subject ?Difficult PDF documents in prepress?: > http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_d > ocuments.html > > To download a fully functioning 30-day live trial: > http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/download.htm. > > Quite a few Publi PDF users already monitor the FrameUsers > e-mail list. Feel free to speak up with your track > record/experience with Grafikhuset Publi PDF. > > > Best regards > Jacob Sch?ffer | Chief Developer > Grafikhuset (House of Graphics) > Paradis All? 22, Raml?se > DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark > Phone: +45 4439 4400 > Email: js at grafikhuset.dk > Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf > > > > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > > Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af > Mike Wickham > > Sendt: 28. februar 2008 18:32 > > Til: Scott White; Frame Users > > Emne: Re: Color Output From Frame > > > > > > > Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker > > > pages? > > > > Sadly, no. > > > > > Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color > > output from > > > Framemaker > > > without having the printer giving you the, "these colors > > are rgb, .." > > > > Is it graphics you are having problems with
Color Output From Frame
Framers Yes, here is the question yet again -- two parts. Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker pages? Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color output from Framemaker without having the printer giving you the, these colors are rgb, .. I'm well aware of printers dislike for framemaker color outputs. Eventhough you have your pages setup to output to cmyk, the colors show up rgb at the print house. The printer then has to use some additional software, at an additional price, to marry the colors to the correct plates. Been there done that. I ask the questions because I have Framemaker 8 and am getting ready to do another catalog, four-color job. We traditionally use Frame 7.2 then take our Frame files, open them up on and older Mac using Framemaker 7.0, psotscript, distill, and go down the road. Scott White Media Production Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Color Output From Frame
Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker pages? Sadly, no. Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color output from Framemaker without having the printer giving you the, these colors are rgb, .. Is it graphics you are having problems with? If so, save them as .EPS files. When FrameMaker creates PostScript for distillation it passes everything through the Windows GDI. This converts graphics back to RGB. The exception is for .EPS files, which are passed around the GDI as is. CMYK will stay as CMYK. So I recommend that you use only .EPS format for graphics files. Also, in maker.ini, try this setting: GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=None You may also have an improper color management setting in Distiller. (Distiller also offers a Convert All Colors to CMYK option.) I seem to recall that having Tag Everything for Color Management caused plain black text to go multi-ink!) The preflight capability of Acrobat Pro can help you find RGB problems. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Color Output From Frame
Framers Yes, here is the question yet again -- two parts. Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker pages? Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color output from Framemaker without having the printer giving you the, "these colors are rgb, .." I'm well aware of printers dislike for framemaker color outputs. Eventhough you have your pages setup to output to cmyk, the colors show up rgb at the print house. The printer then has to use some additional software, at an additional price, to marry the colors to the correct plates. Been there done that. I ask the questions because I have Framemaker 8 and am getting ready to do another catalog, four-color job. We traditionally use Frame 7.2 then take our Frame files, open them up on and older Mac using Framemaker 7.0, psotscript, distill, and go down the road. Scott White Media Production Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swhite at alamark.com
Color Output From Frame
> Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker pages? Sadly, no. > Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color output from > Framemaker > without having the printer giving you the, "these colors are rgb, .." Is it graphics you are having problems with? If so, save them as .EPS files. When FrameMaker creates PostScript for distillation it passes everything through the Windows GDI. This converts graphics back to RGB. The exception is for .EPS files, which are passed around the GDI as is. CMYK will stay as CMYK. So I recommend that you use only .EPS format for graphics files. Also, in maker.ini, try this setting: GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=None You may also have an improper color management setting in Distiller. (Distiller also offers a "Convert All Colors to CMYK" option.) I seem to recall that having "Tag Everything for Color Management" caused plain black text to go multi-ink!) The preflight capability of Acrobat Pro can help you find RGB problems. Mike Wickham
Color Output From Frame
Framers, Framemaker 8 still rely on the Windows GDI or GDI+ kernel as most Windows applications do. This approach has a fantastic benefit: Speed. Especially speed in regard to application performance. Windows GDI or GDI+ are RGB or sRGB devices. This mean that Windows in general will work in 3 component subtractive color spaces such as RGB instead of 4 component additive color spaces such as CMYK. Although it's possible to configure color management in Windows you will NOT be able to define a CMYK color in Framemaker that will preserve its CMYK values as you defined them downstream. Even more impossible it would be to preserve SPOT colors as you define them. I have developed a solution that works fantastic in regard to precise *repair* conversion. It's called Grafikhuset Publi PDF with optimizer plug-in (http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/tech_components_optimizer_plugin.html). However, I wouldn't dream of selling it to users that are satisfied with the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to CMYK', since such users are simply not demanding enough in regard to color fidelity to qualify as Publi PDF Optimizer users. Such users automatically accept that a CMYK definition in Framemaker will be totally molestrated by conversion processes they don't control. Fine with me, but bear in mind that automatic CMYK -> RGB -> CMYK conversions are quite lossy, especially with colors that originally contained a Black component. In practise this K component will often end on the Y plate, but what the heck, it's CMYK :-) If you can live with that feel free to do so! The thing is, that CMYK or SPOT colors defined in Framemaker will print as RGB and the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to CMYK' will POTENTIALLY not bring back the *correct* CMYK values and DEFINITELY not the SPOT color values -- not even their CMYK counterparts. Grafikhuset Publi PDF is a quite expensive, but extremely reliable and fast solution to this specific color problem. With Grafikhuset Publi PDF you can setup color maps that *precisely* converts the Framemaker/GDI generated RGB to CMYK or SPOT as you originally defined in Framemaker and/or any imported EPS art (be careful with imported PDF art -- you may loose SPOT colors on-the-go). To understand the problem better, please see my article on the subject ?Difficult PDF documents in prepress?: http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_documents.html To download a fully functioning 30-day live trial: http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/download.htm. Quite a few Publi PDF users already monitor the FrameUsers e-mail list. Feel free to speak up with your track record/experience with Grafikhuset Publi PDF. Best regards Jacob Sch?ffer | Chief Developer Grafikhuset (House of Graphics) Paradis All? 22, Raml?se DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark Phone: +45 4439 4400 Email: js at grafikhuset.dk Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af Mike Wickham > Sendt: 28. februar 2008 18:32 > Til: Scott White; Frame Users > Emne: Re: Color Output From Frame > > > > Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker > > pages? > > Sadly, no. > > > Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color > output from > > Framemaker > > without having the printer giving you the, "these colors > are rgb, .." > > Is it graphics you are having problems with? If so, save them > as .EPS files. > When FrameMaker creates PostScript for distillation it passes > everything > through the Windows GDI. This converts graphics back to RGB. > The exception > is for .EPS files, which are passed around the GDI as is. > CMYK will stay as > CMYK. So I recommend that you use only .EPS format for graphics files. > > Also, in maker.ini, try this setting: GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=None > > You may also have an improper color management setting in Distiller. > (Distiller also offers a "Convert All Colors to CMYK" > option.) I seem to > recall that having "Tag Everything for Color Management" > caused plain black > text to go multi-ink!) > > The preflight capability of Acrobat Pro can help you find RGB > problems. > > Mike Wickham > > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as js at grafikhuset.dk. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/js%40grafi khuset.dk Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
