Re: Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[Graeme R Forbes]

Hedley's suggestions for improving Frame's footnote handling are all 
very good ones, but the chances of them being implemented are nil, I 
think. Some of us have been complaining about FM's note handling for, 
oh, 14 years, and I have quite a collection of nice messages spanning 
that period from Frame Tech and Adobe, to the effect that yes, this 
is a popular request, and will certainly be considered.


It's been explained to me that getting footnotes to break properly 
across pages would be such a massive project involving such huge 
amounts of code re-writing that the entire population of India would 
need to get degrees in computer science. We are in the same ballpark 
as putting a man or woman on Mars, or curing the common cold, or 
building a working fusion reactor, or getting FM to run natively in 
OSX.


For documents with relatively few footnotes, there's a manual 
workaround involving anchored frames and trial-and-error cutting and 
pasting. I have written up a description of it -- ask and ye shall be 
given. But Rob said



My latest document is 5,000 pages long [...]


Ohmigod!


Graeme
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

As well as allowing multiple short footnotes on a line, Adobe could allow 
long footnotes to flow from a right to the left following page.  It could 
also balance footnotes on facing pages.  If a footnote reference is on a 
right page, it should flow back a long footnote onto the facing left page. 
 Where a succession of longish footnotes follow each other, they should be 
placed at the foot of successive pages.

These are all standard publishing practice, yet here we are at v. 7.x and 
they have still not been implemented.  There was a time when FrameMaker 
was being taken up by academics but until a few things are fixed (like 
interfacing to BiblioText, etc) it ain't going to happen.

In fact, press a few more buttons and you can get me ranting about how 
FrameMaker should always work in double spreads -- balancing facing short 
pages would be a good start.

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd 
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia

Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

? MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007

Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[Rob Shell]

Hi framies:
I have submitted a suggestion to Adobe for an improvement (copied below) . I 
wonder if anyone would support me? Again I am drawing my example from 19th 
century typesetting. Back to the future department.


Here it is:

Improvement: Multiple short footnotes on a single line as in 19th Century 
books


The FM  page logic might be improved if Framemaker allowed 2, 3,4 footnotes 
on a single line in the footnote region. Not all footnotes are long and not 
all need a full line.

My suggested improvement would look like this
_footnote sep line
  2This is the first footnote. 3 Ibid.4 Loc.cit

FrameMaker has a bad habit of placing footnote calls and notes on different 
pages. This suggestion might help and also make the page look better.


p.s. Anyone know how to keep the call and the footnote together globally? My 
latest document is 5,000 pages long and its tiresome to go through the whole 
thing



Robert C.-H. Shell
Extraordinary Professor of Historical Demography
UWC
Courier address:
Room 3,23
Statistics department
New Science Building
University of Western Cape
Modderdam Road
Bellville
7535
Western Cape
Republic of South Africa

Airmail address:
Prof. Robert C.-H. Shell
Room 3,23
Statistics department
New Science Building
Private Bag X17
Bellville
Western Cape 7535
Republic of South Africa
E-mail addresses:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fax: 950-2909 



___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[Art Campbell]

According to the Chicago Manual of Style, which is the bible for most
US academic writing, multiple short footnotes may be placed on the
same line, but it isn't encouraged. However, I'd put multiples way
down on my FM want list, after making the call-and-fix placement fix
and a number of other fixes. ;- )

Cheers,
Art



On 3/21/07, Rob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi framies:
I have submitted a suggestion to Adobe for an improvement (copied below) . I
wonder if anyone would support me? Again I am drawing my example from 19th
century typesetting. Back to the future department.

Here it is:

Improvement: Multiple short footnotes on a single line as in 19th Century
books

The FM  page logic might be improved if Framemaker allowed 2, 3,4 footnotes
on a single line in the footnote region. Not all footnotes are long and not
all need a full line.
My suggested improvement would look like this
_footnote sep line
   2This is the first footnote. 3 Ibid.4 Loc.cit

FrameMaker has a bad habit of placing footnote calls and notes on different
pages. This suggestion might help and also make the page look better.

p.s. Anyone know how to keep the call and the footnote together globally? My
latest document is 5,000 pages long and its tiresome to go through the whole
thing


Robert C.-H. Shell



--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[hedley . finger]

As well as allowing multiple short footnotes on a line, Adobe could allow 
long footnotes to flow from a right to the left following page.  It could 
also balance footnotes on facing pages.  If a footnote reference is on a 
right page, it should flow back a long footnote onto the facing left page. 
 Where a succession of longish footnotes follow each other, they should be 
placed at the foot of successive pages.

These are all standard publishing practice, yet here we are at v. 7.x and 
they have still not been implemented.  There was a time when FrameMaker 
was being taken up by academics but until a few things are fixed (like 
interfacing to BiblioText, etc) it ain't going to happen.

In fact, press a few more buttons and you can get me ranting about how 
FrameMaker should always work in double spreads -- balancing facing short 
pages would be a good start.

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd http://myob.com/au
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia
mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom
Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

© MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[Rob Shell]

Hi framies:
I have submitted a suggestion to Adobe for an improvement (copied below) . I 
wonder if anyone would support me? Again I am drawing my example from 19th 
century typesetting. "Back to the future department."

Here it is:

Improvement: Multiple short footnotes on a single line as in 19th Century 
books

The FM  page logic might be improved if Framemaker allowed 2, 3,4 footnotes 
on a single line in the footnote region. Not all footnotes are long and not 
all need a full line.
My suggested improvement would look like this
_footnote sep line
   2This is the first footnote. 3 Ibid.4 Loc.cit

FrameMaker has a bad habit of placing footnote calls and notes on different 
pages. This suggestion might help and also make the page look better.

p.s. Anyone know how to keep the call and the footnote together globally? My 
latest document is 5,000 pages long and its tiresome to go through the whole 
thing


Robert C.-H. Shell
Extraordinary Professor of Historical Demography
UWC
Courier address:
Room 3,23
Statistics department
New Science Building
University of Western Cape
Modderdam Road
Bellville
7535
Western Cape
Republic of South Africa

Airmail address:
Prof. Robert C.-H. Shell
Room 3,23
Statistics department
New Science Building
Private Bag X17
Bellville
Western Cape 7535
Republic of South Africa
E-mail addresses:
rshell at uwc.ac.za
rshell at iafrica.com
Fax: 950-2909 

Footnote placement improvement for practical and aesthetic reasons

[Art Campbell]

According to the Chicago Manual of Style, which is the bible for most
US academic writing, multiple short footnotes may be placed on the
same line, but it isn't encouraged. However, I'd put multiples way
down on my FM "want" list, after making the call-and-fix placement fix
and a number of other fixes. ;- )

Cheers,
Art



On 3/21/07, Rob Shell  wrote:
> Hi framies:
> I have submitted a suggestion to Adobe for an improvement (copied below) . I
> wonder if anyone would support me? Again I am drawing my example from 19th
> century typesetting. "Back to the future department."
>
> Here it is:
>
> Improvement: Multiple short footnotes on a single line as in 19th Century
> books
>
> The FM  page logic might be improved if Framemaker allowed 2, 3,4 footnotes
> on a single line in the footnote region. Not all footnotes are long and not
> all need a full line.
> My suggested improvement would look like this
> _footnote sep line
>2This is the first footnote. 3 Ibid.4 Loc.cit
>
> FrameMaker has a bad habit of placing footnote calls and notes on different
> pages. This suggestion might help and also make the page look better.
>
> p.s. Anyone know how to keep the call and the footnote together globally? My
> latest document is 5,000 pages long and its tiresome to go through the whole
> thing
>
>
> Robert C.-H. Shell


-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358