Re: Odd keyboard behavior
Hi Jeremy Are you sure the Smart Quotes feature is dead in FM8? It's still seems to work fine in my version. I'm using FM 8.0p277 in Windows XP and I get nice smart single and double quotes. Cheers -- Yves Barbion • Managing Director • Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor www.scripto.nu ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Odd keyboard behavior
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:22:29 +0200, Yves Barbion [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you sure the Smart Quotes feature is dead in FM8? It's still seems to work fine in my version. I'm using FM 8.0p277 in Windows XP and I get nice smart single and double quotes. It's never worked for me, and seeing what Frame puts in the MIF, it's hard to understand how it could work for anyone... If you want to send me a Frame file with an example of some you put in that way, I'll see if there's a difference viewing it here. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Odd keyboard behavior
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:37:02 -0700, Jeremy H. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to send me a Frame file with an example of some you put in that way, I'll see if there's a difference viewing it here. Dr. Winifred Reng sent me one, and provided the clue that nailed the problem; thank you! It *is* a Frame 8 bug... but it's fixable in maker.ini. ;-) You will find a section there (in the main maker.ini, in the directory with framemaker.exe) that has these lines: ; Smart Quote Characters ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) English curved quotes ; SmartQuotes \xe2\xd4\xe3\xd2 ) German-style quotes with base quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xc7\xc8 ) French-style quotes using guillemets ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xd3\xd3 ) Swedish- and Finnish-style quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) Italian curved quotes ; ; English curved quotes: SmartQuotes= Note that the first set is commented out, and the last line is the one in effect. And that's the bug. The characters there are the old ANSI ones, so those are what FM8 uses, with the bad results described before. So, when *European* users are setting up, they change to the line needed for their country, German in Dr. Reng's case. And those *work*. (Dr. Reng also changed \xe2 to \x2c to correct for a font problem in Univers, a missing baseline single quote.) For those of us using English, then, the fix is: ; English curved quotes: ; SmartQuotes= Get rid of this mistake!! ; These are the right ones (note added equal sign): SmartQuotes=\xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 That tells Frame to use its *internally-coded* characters, and those it knows how to map to the real Unicode characters, because in the MIF we get UTF-8 that is correct for those. Thank you, Winfried! Mit freundlichen Grüßen -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Odd keyboard behavior
Interesting. I'm a European user and the Smart Quotes section in my maker.ini looks like this: ; Smart Quote Characters ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) English curved quotes ; SmartQuotes \xe2\xd4\xe3\xd2 ) German-style quotes with base quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xc7\xc8 ) French-style quotes using guillemets ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xd3\xd3 ) Swedish- and Finnish-style quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) Italian curved quotes ; ; English curved quotes: SmartQuotes='' I don't remember changing anything in the maker.ini file, and the smart quotes work for me. Anyway, it's good to know that it can be fixed, and that you can even use custom quotes per language. Thanks to Jeremy and Dr. Reng! -- Yves Barbion www.scripto.nu On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Jeremy H. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:37:02 -0700, Jeremy H. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to send me a Frame file with an example of some you put in that way, I'll see if there's a difference viewing it here. Dr. Winifred Reng sent me one, and provided the clue that nailed the problem; thank you! It *is* a Frame 8 bug... but it's fixable in maker.ini. ;-) You will find a section there (in the main maker.ini, in the directory with framemaker.exe) that has these lines: ; Smart Quote Characters ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) English curved quotes ; SmartQuotes \xe2\xd4\xe3\xd2 ) German-style quotes with base quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xc7\xc8 ) French-style quotes using guillemets ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xd3\xd3 ) Swedish- and Finnish-style quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) Italian curved quotes ; ; English curved quotes: SmartQuotes='' Note that the first set is commented out, and the last line is the one in effect. And that's the bug. The characters there are the old ANSI ones, so those are what FM8 uses, with the bad results described before. So, when *European* users are setting up, they change to the line needed for their country, German in Dr. Reng's case. And those *work*. (Dr. Reng also changed \xe2 to \x2c to correct for a font problem in Univers, a missing baseline single quote.) For those of us using English, then, the fix is: ; English curved quotes: ; SmartQuotes='' Get rid of this mistake!! ; These are the right ones (note added equal sign): SmartQuotes=\xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 That tells Frame to use its *internally-coded* characters, and those it knows how to map to the real Unicode characters, because in the MIF we get UTF-8 that is correct for those. Thank you, Winfried! Mit freundlichen Grüßen -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Odd keyboard behavior
For those of us using English, then, the fix is: SmartQuotes='' Get rid of this mistake!! SmartQuotes=\xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 That tells Frame to use its *internally-coded* characters, and those it knows how to map to the real Unicode characters, because in the MIF we get UTF-8 that is correct for those. Hmmm ... a question. I seem to get the same identical result (on the screen anyway) with either of the two versions above. Is there some difference elsewhere that would matter? BTW: I am using the U.S. version 8.0p277, in English only, on a Windows XP SP3 system.) Z ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Odd keyboard behavior
Thanks, Jeremy. One thing, though: the Ctrl-Alt-` and Ctrl-Alt-' methods
of creating curly double quotes appear to work just fine for me, with or
without Smart Quotes turned off.
--Dan
--
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:41:24 -0700
From: Jeremy H. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Odd keyboard behavior
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Cc: Dosick, Daniel \(GE EntSol, Security\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:27:05 -0400, Dosick, Daniel (GE EntSol,
Security)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
FM8 (patch 277), WinXP pro
This one's pretty bizarre:
As of a couple of days ago (I think), when I type a single or double
quotation mark (' or ) in Frame 8, a question mark appears rather than
the quotation mark character.
Changing the font has no effect. All the other keys do just what
they're supposed to do.
This is only happening in FM8, not in FM7.1 or in any other application
I've tried.
Any ideas?
It's a Frame 8 bug; the Smart Quotes feature is broken.
As you know, Frame began using Unicode internally in FM8.
Pre-Unicode versions, like FM7, used the character set in Windows Code
Page 1252, ANSI, instead, The two character sets are basically
identical for most code points, *except* for characters from U+0080
through U+009F. In Unicode, those code points are the C1 control
characters and do not display. In ANSI, they are a collection of
symbols that include the curly quotes among others.
In FM7, using Smart Quotes and typing resulted in either character
0x93 (left) or 0x94 (right), depending on context. In Unicode, those
code points are not displayable, but Frame didn't convert them to the
right Unicode characters, U+201C and U+201D, as it did for most other
characters in that zone. Instead, it leaves the old ANSI in place, and
displays a question mark.
Interestingly, if you use Mif2Go to convert that file to either HTML or
Word RTF, the characters are correct in the output. How come? For
HTML, browsers still support the ANSI values, which Mif2Go passes
through, even though they are not valid Unicode. For RTF, Word still
uses the ANSI set itself; in fact, Mif2Go has to convert the other
Unicode chars back to ANSI to make Word happy. But that doesn't help if
you make a PDF; you still get the question marks.
What you need to do is, first, turn off Smart Quotes; in Format
Document Text Options... uncheck the box at the top left and Apply.
In FM8, it's dead; bury it.
Now, if you type a , you get a , the straight one.
If you want the curly one, type Ctrl-q Shift-R for the left one, or
Ctrl-q Shift-S for the right. There are other ways, but that's the
fastest and simplest method. The pre-8 method of Ctrl-Alt-` and
Ctrl-Alt-'
does *not* work; it gives you single quotes in FM8.
For single quotes, it's simpler. Type a `, and get a left curly single
quote; type a ', and get a right.
Ctrl-q Shift-T and Ctrl-q Shift-U also work, if you are using a
non-English keyboard. If you want the actual straight character
versions, you have to use Ctrl-` and Ctrl-'. That's the same as in FM7.
Other characters in the 80-9F range are handled more gracefully. If you
use the Ctrl-q sequences, you get the real Unicode character, mostly in
the U+2000 area.
Ctrl-q is your new best friend. ;-)
HTH!
-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omsys.com/
--
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Re: Odd keyboard behavior
Hi Frame 8.0p277 on Win XP SP2. Smart Quotes turned on. Font in test doc is Bembo. Language = UK English. Windows regional settings = English New Zealand. I've just tested the single and double curly quotes in a Frame document and they all work fine for me. The Smart Quotes section in my maker.ini looks like this: ; Smart Quote Characters ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) English curved quotes ; SmartQuotes \xe2\xd4\xe3\xd2 ) German-style quotes with base quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xc7\xc8 ) French-style quotes using guillemets ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xd3\xd3 ) Swedish- and Finnish-style quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) Italian curved quotes ; ; English curved quotes: SmartQuotes=‘’“” In case the actual quote characters don't reproduce correctly via the list, they are curly quotes in the ini file (ie like 6 9). When I opened the ini file into my old text editor Kedit, they did not display. However, they did display correctly in Notepad. As far as I can remember, I haven't modified my maker.ini file at all (although I have other customisations). Cheers Dave Yves Barbion wrote, on 16/10/2008 10:26 p.m.: Interesting. I'm a European user and the Smart Quotes section in my maker.ini looks like this: ; Smart Quote Characters ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) English curved quotes ; SmartQuotes \xe2\xd4\xe3\xd2 ) German-style quotes with base quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xc7\xc8 ) French-style quotes using guillemets ; SmartQuotes \xd5\xd5\xd3\xd3 ) Swedish- and Finnish-style quotes ; SmartQuotes \xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 ) Italian curved quotes ; ; English curved quotes: SmartQuotes='' I don't remember changing anything in the maker.ini file, and the smart quotes work for me. Anyway, it's good to know that it can be fixed, and that you can even use custom quotes per language. Thanks to Jeremy and Dr. Reng! -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Dave Reynolds Phone: (64) (3) 358 1029 Senior Technical Author Fax: (64) (3) 359 4632 Tait Electronics Ltd Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 1645 Christchurch New Zealand === This email, including any attachments, is only for the intended addressee. It is subject to copyright, is confidential and may be the subject of legal or other privilege, none of which is waived or lost by reason of this transmission. If the receiver is not the intended addressee, please accept our apologies, notify us by return, delete all copies and perform no other act on the email. Unfortunately, we cannot warrant that the email has not been altered or corrupted during transmission. === ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Odd keyboard behavior
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:56:28 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those of us using English, then, the fix is: SmartQuotes='' Get rid of this mistake!! SmartQuotes=\xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 That tells Frame to use its *internally-coded* characters, and those it knows how to map to the real Unicode characters, because in the MIF we get UTF-8 that is correct for those. Hmmm ... a question. I seem to get the same identical result (on the screen anyway) with either of the two versions above. Did you make the change while Frame was *not* running? If you make it while Frame is running, Frame will wipe it out when it closes. Is there some difference elsewhere that would matter? Could be. I've seen a couple of others post that the default works for them. I've checked several times, and it doesn't for me. Totally reproducible. BTW: I am using the U.S. version 8.0p277, in English only, on a Windows XP SP3 system.) I'm still using 8.0p273, because of the reported issues with p277 when it came out (posted on Framers). Maybe they fixed it then... -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Odd keyboard behavior
-Original Message- From: Jeremy H. Griffith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:27 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Syed Zaeem Hosain ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: Re: Odd keyboard behavior On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:56:28 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those of us using English, then, the fix is: SmartQuotes='' Get rid of this mistake!! SmartQuotes=\xd4\xd5\xd2\xd3 That tells Frame to use its *internally-coded* characters, and those it knows how to map to the real Unicode characters, because in the MIF we get UTF-8 that is correct for those. Hmmm ... a question. I seem to get the same identical result (on the screen anyway) with either of the two versions above. Did you make the change while Frame was *not* running? Yes. I stopped Frame each time and re-started it - because I vaguely remembered that it reads the maker.ini file only on startup. Don't know if that is right or wrong, but just did it that way. If you make it while Frame is running, Frame will wipe it out when it closes. Good point ... Is there some difference elsewhere that would matter? Could be. I've seen a couple of others post that the default works for them. I've checked several times, and it doesn't for me. Totally reproducible. Interesting difference indeed! Is it a font specific issue perhaps? My testing - albeit very brief - has been with Palatino Linotype only. BTW: I am using the U.S. version 8.0p277, in English only, on a Windows XP SP3 system.) I'm still using 8.0p273, because of the reported issues with p277 when it came out (posted on Framers). Maybe they fixed it then... Perhaps! But, I don't remember seeing it in p273 either. Needless to say, I am thinking of using the fix as you describe, since it makes it easier to read in the maker.ini file anyway. :) Z ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Odd keyboard behavior
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:27:05 -0400, Dosick, Daniel (GE EntSol, Security)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
FM8 (patch 277), WinXP pro
This one's pretty bizarre:
As of a couple of days ago (I think), when I type a single or double
quotation mark (' or ) in Frame 8, a question mark appears rather than
the quotation mark character.
Changing the font has no effect. All the other keys do just what they're
supposed to do.
This is only happening in FM8, not in FM7.1 or in any other application
I've tried.
Any ideas?
It's a Frame 8 bug; the Smart Quotes feature is broken.
As you know, Frame began using Unicode internally in FM8.
Pre-Unicode versions, like FM7, used the character set in
Windows Code Page 1252, ANSI, instead, The two character
sets are basically identical for most code points, *except*
for characters from U+0080 through U+009F. In Unicode,
those code points are the C1 control characters and do
not display. In ANSI, they are a collection of symbols
that include the curly quotes among others.
In FM7, using Smart Quotes and typing resulted in
either character 0x93 (left) or 0x94 (right), depending
on context. In Unicode, those code points are not
displayable, but Frame didn't convert them to the right
Unicode characters, U+201C and U+201D, as it did for
most other characters in that zone. Instead, it leaves
the old ANSI in place, and displays a question mark.
Interestingly, if you use Mif2Go to convert that file
to either HTML or Word RTF, the characters are correct
in the output. How come? For HTML, browsers still
support the ANSI values, which Mif2Go passes through,
even though they are not valid Unicode. For RTF, Word
still uses the ANSI set itself; in fact, Mif2Go has to
convert the other Unicode chars back to ANSI to make
Word happy. But that doesn't help if you make a PDF;
you still get the question marks.
What you need to do is, first, turn off Smart Quotes;
in Format Document Text Options... uncheck the box
at the top left and Apply. In FM8, it's dead; bury it.
Now, if you type a , you get a , the straight one.
If you want the curly one, type Ctrl-q Shift-R for
the left one, or Ctrl-q Shift-S for the right. There
are other ways, but that's the fastest and simplest
method. The pre-8 method of Ctrl-Alt-` and Ctrl-Alt-'
does *not* work; it gives you single quotes in FM8.
For single quotes, it's simpler. Type a `, and get a
left curly single quote; type a ', and get a right.
Ctrl-q Shift-T and Ctrl-q Shift-U also work, if you
are using a non-English keyboard. If you want the
actual straight character versions, you have to use
Ctrl-` and Ctrl-'. That's the same as in FM7.
Other characters in the 80-9F range are handled more
gracefully. If you use the Ctrl-q sequences, you get
the real Unicode character, mostly in the U+2000 area.
Ctrl-q is your new best friend. ;-)
HTH!
-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.omsys.com/
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
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