Re: XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-02 Thread Tassos Anastasiou
Karen,

It seems that you are creating XML from unstructured FrameMaker. I will 
also add my two cents that you have more options if you migrate to 
structured FM to create XML.

But, if you still want to continue creating XML from unstructured 
FrameMaker (I am sure there are reasons), look in the XML Reference 
pages of your document. You should have a table there that allows you to 
specify Cross Reference Macros with building blocks and customize the 
text that appears in your xrefs. If you have not modified the table yet, 
it should look like this:

See Also See <$paratext>

I don't know if this is documented and I have not tried it with XML but 
it is similar process as exporting to HTML using the FrameMaker build-in 
filter.

--tassos



Karen West wrote on 12/1/2005, 5:54 AM:

 > Hi,
 >
 > I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
 > get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool
 > written
 > in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in
 > this
 > is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a
 > .xml and
 > .css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs
 > etc.
 > The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually
 > appear in
 > the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x
 > on page
 > nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
 > the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has
 > an 
 > pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
 > throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied"
 > text. For
 > example:
 >
 > 
 > Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See  href="hm.xml#id(31807)" xml:link="simple" show="replace" actuate="user"
 > CLASS="XRef">
 > page 147
 > 
 >
 > Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
 > documents?
 >
 > TIA
 >
 > Karen
 > Technical Writer
 > Cyberscience Corp UK
 > http://www.cyberscience.com
 >
 > ___
 >
 >
 > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > or visit
 > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/tassos123%40aol.com
 >
 > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
 > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
 >

-- 
---
Tassos Anastasiou
FrameMaker, FDK, XMetaL, XSLT, XML development and training
(650) 322-9988
http://members.aol.com/tassos123/

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XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-02 Thread Tassos Anastasiou
Karen,

It seems that you are creating XML from unstructured FrameMaker. I will 
also add my two cents that you have more options if you migrate to 
structured FM to create XML.

But, if you still want to continue creating XML from unstructured 
FrameMaker (I am sure there are reasons), look in the XML Reference 
pages of your document. You should have a table there that allows you to 
specify Cross Reference Macros with building blocks and customize the 
text that appears in your xrefs. If you have not modified the table yet, 
it should look like this:

See Also See <$paratext>

I don't know if this is documented and I have not tried it with XML but 
it is similar process as exporting to HTML using the FrameMaker build-in 
filter.

--tassos



Karen West wrote on 12/1/2005, 5:54 AM:

 > Hi,
 >
 > I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
 > get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool
 > written
 > in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in
 > this
 > is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a
 > .xml and
 > .css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs
 > etc.
 > The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually
 > appear in
 > the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x
 > on page
 > nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
 > the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has
 > an 
 > pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
 > throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied"
 > text. For
 > example:
 >
 > 
 > Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See  href="hm.xml#id(31807)" xml:link="simple" show="replace" actuate="user"
 > CLASS="XRef">
 > page 147
 > 
 >
 > Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
 > documents?
 >
 > TIA
 >
 > Karen
 > Technical Writer
 > Cyberscience Corp UK
 > http://www.cyberscience.com
 >
 > ___
 >
 >
 > You are currently subscribed to Framers as tassos123 at aol.com.
 >
 > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
 > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
 > or visit
 > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/tassos123%40aol.com
 >
 > Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
 > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
 >

-- 
---
Tassos Anastasiou
FrameMaker, FDK, XMetaL, XSLT, XML development and training
(650) 322-9988
http://members.aol.com/tassos123/




XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Karen West
Mike Feimster wrote:

>> I agree with Bernard that XML from regular FrameMaker has 
>> limited usefulness. If you generate XML from structured 
>> Frame, you have many more  options.

Shlomo Perets replied:

> True, but not necessarily with FM7.0, and not without some effort...

Thanks everyone, it looks like an upgrade and a lot of effort on my part is
in order to convert my existing documents to structured Frame. Can anyone
recommend any good books on Structured FrameMaker? I already have
'FrameMaker 7 The complete Reference'. Will this do, or do I need a 7.1 or
7.2 Structured FrameMaker book?

TIA

Karen




XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Karen West
Hi,

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written
in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this
is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and
.css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in
the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page
nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an 
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com




XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Peter Gold
Hi, Karen:

Look into the "Migrating from Unstructured to Structured FrameMaker" link at

http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/indepth.html

>Thanks everyone, it looks like an upgrade and a lot of effort on my part is
>in order to convert my existing documents to structured Frame. Can anyone
>recommend any good books on Structured FrameMaker? I already have
>'FrameMaker 7 The complete Reference'. Will this do, or do I need a 7.1 or
>7.2 Structured FrameMaker book?

-- 
Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
peter at knowhowpro.com



XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Mike Feimster
Karen,

It looks like the first A tag () is a destination
anchor. That is why there is no text associated with it.

The second A tag (page 147 ) appears to be a
hyperlink. The text you click is the phrase "page 147".

I aggree with Bernard that XML from regular FrameMaker has limited
usefullness. If you generate XML from structured Frame, you have many more
options.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+mike.feimster=acstechnologies@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+mike.feimster=acstechnologies.com at lists.frameusers.c
om] On Behalf Of Karen West
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:54 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: XML Cross-reference Problem

Hi,

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written
in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this
is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and
.css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in
the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page
nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an 
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com

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XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Bernard Aschwanden
If you are creating XML from 'unstructured' Frame then you are going to run 
into this and many other issues. To simply create XML for the sake of XML is 
likely a poor approach to take.

Save As gives you output, but the output is restricted by what FrameMaker 
defaults to. If you have structured files you can exercise a great deal of 
control over the output. If you have FM 7.2 then you can also pre/post process 
the XML files that are generated.

Can you expand on how you build the XML? Is my guess that you 'save as' from 
unstructured Frame correct? If not and you are using structured Frame you will 
need an application file and you will also need to set up Read/Write rules.

If you (or anyone else on the list) are interested, send me an email (but don't 
send it to the entire list) and I can provide a PDF file that walks you through 
building a very simple, but fully functional, set of files to convert content 
to and from XML. There is a simple sample (cool, only one vowel difference) 
that I use which can get someone working with this pretty quickly. This is not 
a replacement for what you have and shouldn't be seen as a complete solution, 
but at least it introduces the concept of building structured files, working 
with XML, developing an EDD, setting up an application file and more. It's a 
good starting point.

The notes are still rough, but they are based on the hands on seminar I did at 
the FrameMaker Chautauqua this year and I'll likely deliver it in a couple of 
other places over the next year or so.

Good luck,

Bernard



Bernard Aschwanden
Publishing Technologies Expert
Publishing Smarter

bernard at publishingsmarter.com 

www.publishingsmarter.com 


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter.com at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Karen West
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:54 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: XML Cross-reference Problem

Hi,

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to get 
all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written in-house 
with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this is to save 
the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and .css for each 
chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in the 
Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page nn'. 
In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to the 
relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an  
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these throughout 
the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml 
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com

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RE: XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Peter Gold

Hi, Karen:

Look into the "Migrating from Unstructured to Structured FrameMaker" link at

http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/indepth.html


Thanks everyone, it looks like an upgrade and a lot of effort on my part is
in order to convert my existing documents to structured Frame. Can anyone
recommend any good books on Structured FrameMaker? I already have
'FrameMaker 7 The complete Reference'. Will this do, or do I need a 7.1 or
7.2 Structured FrameMaker book?


--
Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Karen West
Mike Feimster wrote:
 
>> I agree with Bernard that XML from regular FrameMaker has 
>> limited usefulness. If you generate XML from structured 
>> Frame, you have many more  options.

Shlomo Perets replied:

> True, but not necessarily with FM7.0, and not without some effort...

Thanks everyone, it looks like an upgrade and a lot of effort on my part is
in order to convert my existing documents to structured Frame. Can anyone
recommend any good books on Structured FrameMaker? I already have
'FrameMaker 7 The complete Reference'. Will this do, or do I need a 7.1 or
7.2 Structured FrameMaker book?

TIA

Karen

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Re: XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Lynne A. Price

Karen,
  I assume you are working with structured FrameMaker documents? As I 
understand your question, you want to produce XML that has both the 
cross-reference text and the attributes that identify the link for each 
cross-reference. FrameMaker does not write the cross-reference text to XML, 
because it is a result of formatting and is subject to change as the 
document is edited. If your cross-reference formats don't contain 
information such as page numbers which are specific to FrameMaker 
formatting, you can use XSLT to recreate the cross-reference text. Given 
your "page 147" example, though, you do want FrameMaker-specific 
information. A custom FDK client can generate the text you want.

--Lynne


At 05:54 AM 12/1/2005, Karen West wrote:

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written
in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this
is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and
.css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in
the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page
nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an 
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com

___


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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.



Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, 
and training

[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284 



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XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Lynne A. Price
Karen,
   I assume you are working with structured FrameMaker documents? As I 
understand your question, you want to produce XML that has both the 
cross-reference text and the attributes that identify the link for each 
cross-reference. FrameMaker does not write the cross-reference text to XML, 
because it is a result of formatting and is subject to change as the 
document is edited. If your cross-reference formats don't contain 
information such as page numbers which are specific to FrameMaker 
formatting, you can use XSLT to recreate the cross-reference text. Given 
your "page 147" example, though, you do want FrameMaker-specific 
information. A custom FDK client can generate the text you want.
 --Lynne


At 05:54 AM 12/1/2005, Karen West wrote:
>I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
>get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written
>in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this
>is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and
>.css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
>The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in
>the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page
>nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
>the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an 
>pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
>throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
>example:
>
>
>Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See href="hm.xml#id(31807)" xml:link="simple" show="replace" actuate="user"
>CLASS="XRef">
>page 147
>
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
>documents?
>
>TIA
>
>Karen
>Technical Writer
>Cyberscience Corp UK
>http://www.cyberscience.com
>
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as lprice at txstruct.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit 
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lprice%40txstruct.com
>
>Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.


Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, 
and training
lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284 





XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Shlomo Perets

Mike Feimster wrote:

 > I agree with Bernard that XML from regular FrameMaker has limited
 > usefulness. If you generate XML from structured Frame, you have many more
 > options.

True, but not necessarily with FM7.0, and not without some effort...

For more info, see "Getting external cross-references to work in FrameMaker 
7.1" by Alistair Christie
http://www.itauthor.com/authtools/framemaker/FMexternalXrefs

Additional references available at http://www.microtype.com/FM_bugs.html


Shlomo Perets

MicroType, http://www.microtype.com * ToolbarPlus Express for FrameMaker
FrameMaker/Acrobat training & consulting * FrameMaker-to-Acrobat 
TimeSavers/Assistants
Template Design, Single Sourcing, FM-to-PDF & Technical Indexing seminars





XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Shlomo Perets


Mike Feimster wrote:

> I agree with Bernard that XML from regular FrameMaker has limited
> usefulness. If you generate XML from structured Frame, you have many more
> options.

True, but not necessarily with FM7.0, and not without some effort...

For more info, see "Getting external cross-references to work in FrameMaker 
7.1" by Alistair Christie

http://www.itauthor.com/authtools/framemaker/FMexternalXrefs

Additional references available at http://www.microtype.com/FM_bugs.html


Shlomo Perets

MicroType, http://www.microtype.com * ToolbarPlus Express for FrameMaker
FrameMaker/Acrobat training & consulting * FrameMaker-to-Acrobat 
TimeSavers/Assistants

Template Design, Single Sourcing, FM-to-PDF & Technical Indexing seminars


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RE: XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Mike Feimster
Karen,

It looks like the first A tag () is a destination
anchor. That is why there is no text associated with it.

The second A tag (page 147 ) appears to be a
hyperlink. The text you click is the phrase "page 147".

I aggree with Bernard that XML from regular FrameMaker has limited
usefullness. If you generate XML from structured Frame, you have many more
options.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
om] On Behalf Of Karen West
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:54 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: XML Cross-reference Problem

Hi,

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written
in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this
is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and
.css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in
the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page
nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an 
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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ologies.com

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RE: XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Bernard Aschwanden
If you are creating XML from 'unstructured' Frame then you are going to run 
into this and many other issues. To simply create XML for the sake of XML is 
likely a poor approach to take.

Save As gives you output, but the output is restricted by what FrameMaker 
defaults to. If you have structured files you can exercise a great deal of 
control over the output. If you have FM 7.2 then you can also pre/post process 
the XML files that are generated.

Can you expand on how you build the XML? Is my guess that you 'save as' from 
unstructured Frame correct? If not and you are using structured Frame you will 
need an application file and you will also need to set up Read/Write rules.

If you (or anyone else on the list) are interested, send me an email (but don't 
send it to the entire list) and I can provide a PDF file that walks you through 
building a very simple, but fully functional, set of files to convert content 
to and from XML. There is a simple sample (cool, only one vowel difference) 
that I use which can get someone working with this pretty quickly. This is not 
a replacement for what you have and shouldn't be seen as a complete solution, 
but at least it introduces the concept of building structured files, working 
with XML, developing an EDD, setting up an application file and more. It's a 
good starting point.

The notes are still rough, but they are based on the hands on seminar I did at 
the FrameMaker Chautauqua this year and I'll likely deliver it in a couple of 
other places over the next year or so.

Good luck,

Bernard



Bernard Aschwanden
Publishing Technologies Expert
Publishing Smarter

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

www.publishingsmarter.com 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karen West
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:54 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: XML Cross-reference Problem

Hi,

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to get 
all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written in-house 
with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this is to save 
the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and .css for each 
chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in the 
Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page nn'. 
In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to the 
relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an  
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these throughout 
the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml 
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com

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XML Cross-reference Problem

2005-12-01 Thread Karen West
Hi,

I produce documentation using Framemaker 7.0 and we are now attempting to
get all of our documentation online in a help system, using a tool written
in-house with our own software (a 4GL called Cyberscreen). My part in this
is to save the individual chapters of each book as xml, producing a .xml and
.css for each chapter, plus make sure all the images are saved as gifs etc.
The problem we are having is with cross-references. They usually appear in
the Frame document as 'see heading on page nn' or 'see chapter x on page
nn'. In the help system we want them to appear as text only hyperlinks to
the relevant section of the help. The Framemaker xml file simply has an 
pointing to a location in the document. There are hundreds of these
throughout the manuals, and for most of them there is no "implied" text. For
example:


Manage the help facility using the HM utility. See 
page 147


Does anyone have any suggestions how we can get proper links into the xml
documents?

TIA

Karen
Technical Writer
Cyberscience Corp UK
http://www.cyberscience.com

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