Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
Hanno Schlichting wrote: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Alexander Limi l...@plone.org wrote: Do we expect Plone 4.1 / Zope 2.13 to be using Python 2.7 by default? (makes sense to me, but not sure if it has other implications that I'm unaware of) See http://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/buildouts/plone-coredev/branches/4.1/plips/plip10776-zope213.txt where it says: Not in scope While Zope 2.13 supports both WSGI and Python 2.7 it is not part of this PLIP to support either of them. Support for these might be added in Plone 4.2. In order to support Python 2.7 properly, there's more work to be done and this really needs more testing. I know of some buildout recipes that aren't compatible yet and I expect other commonly used libraries to need some minor updates. I'd rather see the community try it out and fix the problems one by one before we claim official support for it. Just clarifying: this means we have code that runs on 2.6 but breaks on 2.7. @Hanno: any gut feeling already how many issues/idioms we are looking at? Should we start collecting those and let people know how to become future proof? (or do have that anywhere already and I simply missed it?) Raphael Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
On 13 September 2010 06:51, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Alexander Limi l...@plone.org wrote: Do we expect Plone 4.1 / Zope 2.13 to be using Python 2.7 by default? (makes sense to me, but not sure if it has other implications that I'm unaware of) See http://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/buildouts/plone-coredev/branches/4.1/plips/plip10776-zope213.txt where it says: Not in scope While Zope 2.13 supports both WSGI and Python 2.7 it is not part of this PLIP to support either of them. Support for these might be added in Plone 4.2. In order to support Python 2.7 properly, there's more work to be done and this really needs more testing. I know of some buildout recipes that aren't compatible yet and I expect other commonly used libraries to need some minor updates. I'd rather see the community try it out and fix the problems one by one before we claim official support for it. While I would like to see Python 2.7 compatibility in a later Plone 4.x release, I would be uncomfortable requiring it during the 4.x line without very good reason - Python2.7 is still new and only just being picked up by distributions (Ubuntu 10.04 LTS does not include it for instance). Being able to run Plone with a vendor supplied python makes deployment much simpler. Laurence ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
Laurence Rowe wrote: [..] While I would like to see Python 2.7 compatibility in a later Plone 4.x release, I would be uncomfortable requiring it during the 4.x line without very good reason I don't think anyone suggested *requiring* it still it would be nice to *support* it - at least in the not too far distant future. Raphael - Python2.7 is still new and only just being picked up by distributions (Ubuntu 10.04 LTS does not include it for instance). Being able to run Plone with a vendor supplied python makes deployment much simpler. Laurence ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Raphael Ritz r.r...@biologie.hu-berlin.de wrote: Just clarifying: this means we have code that runs on 2.6 but breaks on 2.7. I'm not sure if we have code in the core that breaks in a hard way. I'm aware of issues in some recipes like iw.recipe.template, collective.recipe.hudson, collective.recipe.solrinstance that all break with Python 2.7. I know we had to do some minor fixes in all of ZODB, ZTK and Zope2 to fix small issues. Therefor my general impression is that we'll need some time to test the support in practice and real projects to figure out if any popular add-ons are affected as well. There is also one major issue to figure out around testing. In Python 2.7 deprecation warnings are silenced by default. We agreed in the Zope community that this is ok for production code, but we'd like to enable the warnings in tests by default, as you'll otherwise never notice them. We haven't actually implemented that behavior yet, though. This has also lead to most of the ZTK having passing tests under Python 2.7 but actually emit tons of deprecation warnings once you enable them - for example all self.fail* methods in tests got deprecated in favor of their self.assert* spelling to just name one. Before we can claim real proper Python 2.7 support we need to make sure our own stack runs without deprecation warnings. @Hanno: any gut feeling already how many issues/idioms we are looking at? Should we start collecting those and let people know how to become future proof? (or do have that anywhere already and I simply missed it?) Apart from the deprecation warning business I'm not aware of any other major issues. But you can only reasonably make code compatible with Python 2.7 once you have moved it to Python 2.6 without emitting any warnings. Going straight from Python 2.4 to 2.7 is going to be a bit painful as you'll loose all the helpful deprecation messages and just get straight exceptions on some issues. Once Plone 4.1 is released we stop providing bug fixes for the Plone 3.x line. At that point I'd expect many add-on maintainers to be ok with supporting only Plone 4 and requiring Python 2.6. Once that has happened it should be much easier to move forward to Python 2.7 support. Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hanno Schlichting wrote: There is also one major issue to figure out around testing. In Python 2.7 deprecation warnings are silenced by default. We agreed in the Zope community that this is ok for production code, but we'd like to enable the warnings in tests by default, as you'll otherwise never notice them. We haven't actually implemented that behavior yet, though. This has also lead to most of the ZTK having passing tests under Python 2.7 but actually emit tons of deprecation warnings once you enable them - for example all self.fail* methods in tests got deprecated in favor of their self.assert* spelling to just name one. +sys.maxint to ignoring that particular set of wank-off deprecations *forever*. No possible purity excuses introducing deprecations of long-established API aliases, which cause nobody any harm anywhere. Before we can claim real proper Python 2.7 support we need to make sure our own stack runs without deprecation warnings. +1, modulo that particular example. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkyOo/oACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ7wegCfZWNW1b3tcqBVxSGoo6G4HE3f 7cUAoKuk9Qt4CtMJBe+qsR5C2RrazGhJ =aofZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
Do we expect Plone 4.1 / Zope 2.13 to be using Python 2.7 by default? (makes sense to me, but not sure if it has other implications that I'm unaware of) On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 6:03 AM, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote: Hi. The Zope 2.13 PLIP (https://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/10776) is ready for review. There's a PLIP buildout at https://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/buildouts/plone-coredev/branches/4.1/plips/plip10776-zope213.cfg including notes to use it via a local.cfg. There's also an accompanying text file with some comments about the current status in the same folder (plip10776-zope213.txt). I'd welcome a timely review, so I can either fix any upcoming suggestions or merge this in early. Thanks, Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team -- Alexander Limi · http://twitter.com/limi · http://limi.net ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Limi wrote: Do we expect Plone 4.1 / Zope 2.13 to be using Python 2.7 by default? (makes sense to me, but not sure if it has other implications that I'm unaware of) Both 2.6 and 2.7 are supported Python versions for the current Zope2 trunk -- see http://svn.zope.org/Zope/trunk/doc/INSTALL.rst?view=markup Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkyNp0EACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ6mpwCgzDP87LI6lFSyBqXkCevUhTCl Fz0AniX+204y6jQh2sZP1kPgT5NVzIVQ =ey09 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Zope 2.13 PLIP ready for review
Hi. The Zope 2.13 PLIP (https://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/10776) is ready for review. There's a PLIP buildout at https://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/buildouts/plone-coredev/branches/4.1/plips/plip10776-zope213.cfg including notes to use it via a local.cfg. There's also an accompanying text file with some comments about the current status in the same folder (plip10776-zope213.txt). I'd welcome a timely review, so I can either fix any upcoming suggestions or merge this in early. Thanks, Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
