Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Pip Chodorov]

Hi all,

Of course anything can happen in any domain, whether in a university 
or in a community film lab. No community is immune from people who 
use their position of authority inappropriately. I'm sure Fred is 
right about filmmakers exhibiting inappropriate behavior, and I'm 
sure filmmakers have had disturbing experiences with their subjects 
as Amanda relates. But Chuck's question compares our "industry" with 
entertainmeint, politics and academia, and I think there is a 
difference.


Of course when the subject matter of our films brings us into 
dangerous situations or into contact with people who cause 
harassment, yes and I guess that can be an even greater danger in 
documentary filmmaking, especially social documentary. I really 
wasn't thinking about the act of filming a subject, or in the 
relation of power or authority between filmer and filmee, but in the 
"business" side of experimental film. There are no "casting couches."


When I reflect on the panorama of experimental filmmaking there are 
fewer films about human subjects than in narrative or documentary 
filmmaking. So many films are about mountains or emulsion scratches 
or found images or old friends, and many of us work totally alone 
with printing machines or in a darkroom.


On the other hand many films do cross the line into sexual politics 
or sexuality in general, like Flaming Creatures. Not only the 
vulnerability of the filming situation but the potential of 
distribution and exhibition is affected by the subject matter. (In 
some cases film labs even refused to print explicit images).


I didn't mean to disrespect anybody in our community who has had bad 
experiences with bad actors, but to posit that in the narrow scope of 
avant-garde film, one's career as a filmmaker is less likely to be in 
jeapordy due to inappropriate sexual behavior, though other abuses of 
power are much more common.


Interesting debate, but I doubt it's made more interesting now 
because of the proliferation of news stories. It should have always 
been acceptable and rewarding to call out wrongdoing when it happened.


- Pip
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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Gina Marchetti]

Thanks, Chuck and Pip, for starting the discussion on this.  I recommend
looking at this article by Mary Celeste Kearney, Guest Post: How Film
Schools Lead to Pipelines Full of Weinsteins:
https://blog.womenandhollywood.com/guest-post-how-film-schools-lead-to-pipelines-full-of-weinsteins-f49f4c69d78

I don't teach at a film school, but we still have been having a lively
discussion here at HKU on the consequences of the Weinstein revelations.
In fact, we've started to collect some articles on our Faculty of Arts
Committee on Gender Equality and Diversity website.  Here's the link:
http://arts.hku.hk/about-us/CGED/Bibliography/sexual-harassment-and-climate-in-units
I am eager to add to this bibliography, so feel free to contact me off list
if you have material to add.  I also recommend following the discussion on
UFVA Facebook.  Vaun Monroe, who coordinates the Gender/Diversity caucus,
does an excellent job of pointing out the ways that discrimination works in
film schools (where many in the experimental film community are based).
https://www.facebook.com/groups/416283385163176/  (I am copying Vaun here.)

Given the centrality of commercial film in the popular consciousness, the
amount of press given to Weinstein has opened up the conversation in many
ways.  My colleague, Sylvia Martin, gave a fascinating talk on this here
recently.  I'm copying her, since I'm not sure she's part of the
experimental film community.  Even when the stakes are low, women still
suffer disproportionately from sexual violence, harassment, lack of access
to resources, and a cool climate that makes it difficult for them to
excel.  In my years of following experimental film (particularly women in
punk), I think that we still have far to go in breaking down barriers.

Looking forward to seeing more on this topic here.  (I am copying some
other colleagues, who may be interested in this thread as well.)

Best,
Gina
(University of Hong Kong)

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Pip Chodorov 
wrote:

> Asking for a friend?  Hilarious subject line.
>
> I think experiemental film's freedom comes from its marginality.
> In this business there is no money or power because these films are
> outside the film industry and outside the art market. There is only
> passion, sharing, and working in cooperative communities.
>
> That is not to say that there is no competition or territoriality between
> people or groups, we feel that maybe even stronger than in the film
> industry or the art market. But there is certainly no sense of entitlement
> over others due to one's position. There are no bosses, no job interviews,
> no big opportunities, no moguls... Also the nature of these film works are
> self-expression and thrashing out issues of difference and marginality and
> self-identity so it is a very welcoming community in those terms.
>
> Of course there are other kinds of negative energies that can crop up in
> our communitiy besides sexual haassment, other, more "experimental"
> harassments that could be interseting to discuss...
>
> - Pip Chodorov
>
>
>
>
>
> At 21:06 + 23/11/17, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:
>
>> Given the proliferation of items in the news about sexual harassment in
>> the film industry, and entertainment, and politics and academe, etc. why is
>> this listserv so quiet on these issues?  Nothing to report?
>>
>> Chuck Kleinhans
>> ___
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>
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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Fred Camper]

This utopian view of experimental cinema seems to me to be incorrect. 
Some of those I would call the very greatest experimental filmmakers 
were also sexual harassers. Remember that many filmmakers had a position 
of profesorship, which certainly conveys an aura of authority, or other 
positions of power. Asking for sex from a very young and very admiring 
student enrolled in one of one's courses  is highly inappropriate, and 
not only in my view, even if it is nowhere near as awful as the worst of 
the actions we are hearing about today.


I do not wish to name filmmakers now very old or deceased, but I can 
without searching my memory very hard quickly count to eight, not all of 
them among the greatest filmmakers and not all of them professors. I 
felt the need to chime in in response to the we are better than they 
tone of this post. I am a bit out of the current scene and do not know 
of currently active harassers in our little film world. It would be nice 
to think that there are fewer today, and nicer to think that such 
actions will be greatly reduced by the current shift in climate around 
this issue.


Perhaps the old HIV slogan, Silence=Death, can be resurrected with a 
slight rewrite now? I am not sure what to use instead of death though.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 11/23/2017 8:21 PM, Pip Chodorov wrote:

Asking for a friend?  Hilarious subject line.

I think experiemental film's freedom comes from its marginality.
In this business there is no money or power because these films are 
outside the film industry and outside the art market. There is only 
passion, sharing, and working in cooperative communities.


That is not to say that there is no competition or territoriality 
between people or groups, we feel that maybe even stronger than in the 
film industry or the art market. But there is certainly no sense of 
entitlement over others due to one's position. There are no bosses, no 
job interviews, no big opportunities, no moguls... Also the nature of 
these film works are self-expression and thrashing out issues of 
difference and marginality and self-identity so it is a very welcoming 
community in those terms.


Of course there are other kinds of negative energies that can crop up 
in our communitiy besides sexual haassment, other, more "experimental" 
harassments that could be interseting to discuss...


- Pip Chodorov




At 21:06 + 23/11/17, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:
Given the proliferation of items in the news about sexual harassment 
in the film industry, and entertainment, and politics and academe, 
etc. why is this listserv so quiet on these issues?  Nothing to report?


Chuck Kleinhans
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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Amanda Christie]

interesting perspective pip…

sadly, sexual harassment and assault do not only result from the hierarchical 
power structures of industrial or commercial productions… 
nor are they limited to territoriality and competition…. 

sometimes, these things can happen precisely because we are working alone and 
in the margins... and in order to pursue our subjects we may place ourselves in 
dangerous or compromising situations without protection, because we might think 
that by working alone, outside of the industry, in the margins, that protection 
is not needed… not protection from superiors or crew members (because we are 
working independently and alone)… but protection from our subjects… that in 
itself creates a very complicated and difficult power dynamic… because then how 
does one finish or edit a film, when the footage itself bears the trace of an 
assault that becomes a trigger? and then how does one independently promote or 
disseminate such a film, or even attempt to work with a distributor when the 
mere discussion of the film is tangled with the effects of ptsd that breed 
fear, aggression, paranoia, and distrust of ones peers, friends, and others …. 
hypothetically speaking of course.

 just to say… that sadly… sexual assault and harassment can, and does sometimes 
happen to experimental filmmakers, in the process of making their films… 
working alone in the margins. 

adc



> On Nov 23, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Pip Chodorov  wrote:
> 
> Asking for a friend?  Hilarious subject line.
> 
> I think experiemental film's freedom comes from its marginality.
> In this business there is no money or power because these films are outside 
> the film industry and outside the art market. There is only passion, sharing, 
> and working in cooperative communities.
> 
> That is not to say that there is no competition or territoriality between 
> people or groups, we feel that maybe even stronger than in the film industry 
> or the art market. But there is certainly no sense of entitlement over others 
> due to one's position. There are no bosses, no job interviews, no big 
> opportunities, no moguls... Also the nature of these film works are 
> self-expression and thrashing out issues of difference and marginality and 
> self-identity so it is a very welcoming community in those terms.
> 
> Of course there are other kinds of negative energies that can crop up in our 
> communitiy besides sexual haassment, other, more "experimental" harassments 
> that could be interseting to discuss...
> 
> - Pip Chodorov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 21:06 + 23/11/17, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:
>> Given the proliferation of items in the news about sexual harassment in the 
>> film industry, and entertainment, and politics and academe, etc. why is this 
>> listserv so quiet on these issues?  Nothing to report?
>> 
>> Chuck Kleinhans
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Pip Chodorov]

Asking for a friend?  Hilarious subject line.

I think experiemental film's freedom comes from its marginality.
In this business there is no money or power because these films are 
outside the film industry and outside the art market. There is only 
passion, sharing, and working in cooperative communities.


That is not to say that there is no competition or territoriality 
between people or groups, we feel that maybe even stronger than in 
the film industry or the art market. But there is certainly no sense 
of entitlement over others due to one's position. There are no 
bosses, no job interviews, no big opportunities, no moguls... Also 
the nature of these film works are self-expression and thrashing out 
issues of difference and marginality and self-identity so it is a 
very welcoming community in those terms.


Of course there are other kinds of negative energies that can crop up 
in our communitiy besides sexual haassment, other, more 
"experimental" harassments that could be interseting to discuss...


- Pip Chodorov




At 21:06 + 23/11/17, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:
Given the proliferation of items in the news about sexual harassment 
in the film industry, and entertainment, and politics and academe, 
etc. why is this listserv so quiet on these issues?  Nothing to 
report?


Chuck Kleinhans
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[Frameworks] Asking for a friend

[Chuck Kleinhans]

Given the proliferation of items in the news about sexual harassment in the 
film industry, and entertainment, and politics and academe, etc. why is this 
listserv so quiet on these issues?  Nothing to report?

Chuck Kleinhans
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[Frameworks] A Question of Film Criticism

[Bernard Roddy]

Greetings and happy holidays, film artists.

I was wondering whether there are thoughts here on where to go to read
strong writing about art of the kind you might like to make (or see), or
that you in fact see.

For a moment there I had some doubts about the nature of programming, the
kind of thing I associate with just an art practice that doesn't restrict
itself to technique.  But I soon saw how this is read as some kind of gripe
against not being selected.  We have to be able to risk that reading, and
perhaps be guilty of it, but to accept the price of actually thinking about
what would pass as a questioning about curatorial decisions elsewhere.

So in this first little drama (on facebook) I would say, although I did
not, that I make films and the kind I would like to see, even if you
wouldn't screen what I make.. I may not particularly like the work you
screen, but any objections I have would go beyond my own case.  A
programmer who would then say, hey I don't like the way you are challenging
thing I am doing, so I am not going to consider your work, would just
confirm the kinds of questions I am trying to think about.

Well, as it happens, at Visible Evidence, there is also a certain
conversation about "politics of" programming.  And although it might sound
pretty familiar, it does recognize the questioning here, my questioning,
which was also fueled by an observation: Experiments in Cinema announces
that its decisions will be made in secret, whereas the festival run out of
the University of Iowa just says flat-out, this is a student run festival.
I am not taking a stand on how this should go.  I find myself sympathizing
one way, then another.

Anyway, it appeared to be a question of accountability, even if this very
term will give reason for pause once it is uttered by someone who just
writes.  The introduction of a certain braking effect looks diffferent, I
believe, depending on where it arises.  (One could compare all the
"research" into "best practices" with what we would expect as productions
in such an environment.)

I began, however, with a question.  It came up a year or so ago when I
received an email from Millenium Film Journal suggesting that in what I had
written there was not enough about the works, the films, any film.  Film
analysis, a "close reading," would be desired.

So . . finally . . I am looking at this discussion over at the Modern
Language Association (the PMLA is publication), and reading discussions
about a 2013 Verso publication, Distant Reading, which argues against (I'm
approximating, using this for my own ends), argues against close readings
of classic texts in literature.  This is cool, because it recognizes the
attraction to a canon within an academic discipline, and for purposes of
teaching.  Thinking back on the recent screening of work at the Nightingale
in Chicago, I think these terms could be very useful - not as a matter for
studio critique, but as a question of reading the screen, and of writing on
what we have seen.

Who talks about shifts in writing on artists' screen work (black box,
right?), or what is being said that seems to engage not only the
developments of work being shown, but also developments of thinking about
the work being shown?

Bernie
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