Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Thanks so much for chiming in, Dave. These photos are super helpful. I hadn't been able to find any, but didn't think to check ebay. And yes, because, Jeff -Original Message- From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Dave Tetzlaff Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 9:37 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question I'd take Jeff's analysis as definitive, because Jeff... But fwiw I'll add a wee bit of possible support... It's almost certainly not Super-8. As Jeff notes, that's a Canon video zoom lens in the manhole photos. That would have matched optically with the pickup tube diameters of early portable BW video cameras, but been too long for any kind of 8mm film format. I'm also not aware of any S8 camera by Nizo or anyone else that came with a C-Mount and was that size and shape. Here are some pix of the Concord I found on Google. https://is.gd/F5BV8n https://is.gd/H4YPCF The manhole pix appear appear to match the front of the Concord: position and size of the badge, ring around the mount on the body. The Beatles press conference pic appears to match the rear of the Concord: location and size of connectors. The top and bottom corners of the case appear to have a different contour on Andy's unit compared to the Concord photos online - rounded vs. angled - but that could be a cosmetic change between different manufacturing years of the same basic camera. And indeed, the Beatles presser photo shows the camera is not connected to power or to a VTR. So, yeah, prop... ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
I’d take Jeff’s analysis as definitive, because Jeff... But fwiw I’ll add a wee bit of possible support… It’s almost certainly not Super-8. As Jeff notes, that’s a Canon video zoom lens in the manhole photos. That would have matched optically with the pickup tube diameters of early portable BW video cameras, but been too long for any kind of 8mm film format. I’m also not aware of any S8 camera by Nizo or anyone else that came with a C-Mount and was that size and shape. Here are some pix of the Concord I found on Google. https://is.gd/F5BV8n https://is.gd/H4YPCF The manhole pix appear appear to match the front of the Concord: position and size of the badge, ring around the mount on the body. The Beatles press conference pic appears to match the rear of the Concord: location and size of connectors. The top and bottom corners of the case appear to have a different contour on Andy’s unit compared to the Concord photos online — rounded vs. angled – but that could be a cosmetic change between different manufacturing years of the same basic camera. And indeed, the Beatles presser photo shows the camera is not connected to power or to a VTR. So, yeah, prop... ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Spot on, Jeff. Is this the Concord MTC-11 that you mentioned regarding the Beatles press conference? "Andy Warhol, right, waits among the photographers at a Beatles press conference in New York, October, 1964 Photograph: Tony Ray Jones/Getty Images/SSPL" https://www.theguardian.com/music/gallery/2014/jan/29/thebeatles-ringo-starr#img-7 On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:14 PM Jeff Kreines wrote: > Claire: > > The camera is a Concord MTC-11, a relatively cheap and compact B video > camera. Mostly used for surveillance. Warhol used one in August, 1965 > when Norelco lent him a videotape recorder (in addition to the Norelco > camera). > > He apparently carried it around as a fetish object/prop, since in most of > these situations the camera wasn’t attached to a recorder or even a > monitor. You can see it (with a Switar lens instead of the Canon 25-100 > zoom shown in this photo) at a Beatles press conference in 1965 > (misidentified as 1964 by Getty). It’s mentioned in a couple of books > about Warhol, and IIRC also mentions it in the October, 1965 article in > “Tape Recording” magazine. > > Blake Gopnik and Greg Pierce asked me about it last year, but apparently > for a different book. > > > Jeff Kreines > Kinetta > j...@kinetta.com > kinetta.com > > On Dec 11, 2019, at 3:03 PM, Claire Henry, Curatorial < > claire_he...@whitney.org> wrote: > > Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! > > Claire > > > > https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html > > > *From:* FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Claire Henry, > Curatorial > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM > *To:* Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com) < > frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com> > *Cc:* Jessica Palinski, Curatorial > *Subject:* [Frameworks] Camera question > > Hi Frameworkers! > > We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our > catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding > in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am > unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very > welcomed. > > > Thanks! > > Claire > > > Claire K. Henry > Assistant Curator > The Andy Warhol Film Project > Whitney Museum of American Art > 99 Gansevoort Street > New York, NY 10014 > Tel: 212 570 7740 > Fax: 212 929 2019 > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks > ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Hi Jeff and Everyone, Many thanks for weighing in! It’s truly appreciated. Yes, that appears to be the same camera as the one AW holds at the Beatles press conference, but with the lens swapped. I remember that exchange last year about the press conference photo with Gopnik and Pierce. That was for Gopnik’s book. Cheers to all! Claire From: Jeff Kreines [mailto:j...@kinetta.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 7:15 PM To: Frameworks Discussion List ; Claire Henry, Curatorial Cc: Jeff Kreines ; Jessica Palinski, Curatorial Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question Claire: The camera is a Concord MTC-11, a relatively cheap and compact B video camera. Mostly used for surveillance. Warhol used one in August, 1965 when Norelco lent him a videotape recorder (in addition to the Norelco camera). He apparently carried it around as a fetish object/prop, since in most of these situations the camera wasn’t attached to a recorder or even a monitor. You can see it (with a Switar lens instead of the Canon 25-100 zoom shown in this photo) at a Beatles press conference in 1965 (misidentified as 1964 by Getty). It’s mentioned in a couple of books about Warhol, and IIRC also mentions it in the October, 1965 article in “Tape Recording” magazine. Blake Gopnik and Greg Pierce asked me about it last year, but apparently for a different book. Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com<mailto:j...@kinetta.com> kinetta.com<http://kinetta.com> On Dec 11, 2019, at 3:03 PM, Claire Henry, Curatorial mailto:claire_he...@whitney.org>> wrote: Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! Claire https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Claire Henry, Curatorial Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>) mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>> Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial mailto:jessica_palin...@whitney.org>> Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question Hi Frameworkers! We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. Thanks! Claire Claire K. Henry Assistant Curator The Andy Warhol Film Project Whitney Museum of American Art 99 Gansevoort Street New York, NY 10014 Tel: 212 570 7740 Fax: 212 929 2019 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com<mailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Re: Warhol in manhole with camera and a young Edie (hence not 70’s) Could it be a Nizo held upside down? Perhaps handle is folded, hence less visibly obvious? The Silver box like shape, and the dark rectangular bar are consistent with Nizo bodies. Wide lens in proportion to body also make some sense. Bob Harris > On Dec 11, 2019, at 7:39 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote: > > The Nalcom FTL 1000 was apparently made between 1973 and 1976. > > Jeff Kreines > Kinetta > j...@kinetta.com <mailto:j...@kinetta.com> > kinetta.com <http://kinetta.com/> > >> On Dec 11, 2019, at 6:34 PM, deluge000 > <mailto:deluge...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> It may be a modified Nalcom FTL by the shape. The faceplate is different on >> Warhol's camera seems larger as well not sure. >> >> >> >> Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note8. >> >> Original message >> From: Ed Inman mailto:edin...@earthlink.net>> >> Date: 12/11/19 5:01 PM (GMT-07:00) >> To: Experimental Film Discussion List > <mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>> >> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question >> >> I would like to know too. I wonder if it was a real working camera or rather >> just a prop. The placement of the lens at the very top seems odd. I don't >> think there would be room to place a Super 8 cartridge inside with the lens >> in that position. --Ed >> >> -Original Message- >> From: "Claire Henry, Curatorial" >> Sent: Dec 11, 2019 3:03 PM >> To: Experimental Film Discussion List >> Cc: "Jessica Palinski, Curatorial" >> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question >> >> Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! >> >> Claire >> >> >> https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html >> >> <https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html> >> >> >> From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com >> <mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com>] On Behalf Of Claire Henry, >> Curatorial >> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM >> To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com >> <mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>) > <mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>> >> Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial > <mailto:jessica_palin...@whitney.org>> >> Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question >> >> Hi Frameworkers! >> >> We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our >> catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding >> in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am >> unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very >> welcomed. >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> Claire >> >> >> Claire K. Henry >> Assistant Curator >> The Andy Warhol Film Project >> Whitney Museum of American Art >> 99 Gansevoort Street >> New York, NY 10014 >> Tel: 212 570 7740 >> Fax: 212 929 2019 >> >> ___ >> FrameWorks mailing list >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com <mailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks >> <https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks> > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
The Nalcom FTL 1000 was apparently made between 1973 and 1976. Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com kinetta.com > On Dec 11, 2019, at 6:34 PM, deluge000 wrote: > > It may be a modified Nalcom FTL by the shape. The faceplate is different on > Warhol's camera seems larger as well not sure. > > > > Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note8. > > Original message > From: Ed Inman > Date: 12/11/19 5:01 PM (GMT-07:00) > To: Experimental Film Discussion List > Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question > > I would like to know too. I wonder if it was a real working camera or rather > just a prop. The placement of the lens at the very top seems odd. I don't > think there would be room to place a Super 8 cartridge inside with the lens > in that position. --Ed > > -Original Message- > From: "Claire Henry, Curatorial" > Sent: Dec 11, 2019 3:03 PM > To: Experimental Film Discussion List > Cc: "Jessica Palinski, Curatorial" > Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question > > Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! > > Claire > > > https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html > > <https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html> > > > From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of > Claire Henry, Curatorial > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM > To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com) > > Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial > Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question > > Hi Frameworkers! > > We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue > raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these > photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If > anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. > > > Thanks! > > Claire > > > Claire K. Henry > Assistant Curator > The Andy Warhol Film Project > Whitney Museum of American Art > 99 Gansevoort Street > New York, NY 10014 > Tel: 212 570 7740 > Fax: 212 929 2019 > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
It may be a modified Nalcom FTL by the shape. The faceplate is different on Warhol's camera seems larger as well not sure.Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note8. Original message From: Ed Inman Date: 12/11/19 5:01 PM (GMT-07:00) To: Experimental Film Discussion List Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question I would like to know too. I wonder if it was a real working camera or rather just a prop. The placement of the lens at the very top seems odd. I don't think there would be room to place a Super 8 cartridge inside with the lens in that position. --Ed-Original Message- From: "Claire Henry, Curatorial" Sent: Dec 11, 2019 3:03 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Cc: "Jessica Palinski, Curatorial" Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! Claire https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Claire Henry, Curatorial Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com) Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question Hi Frameworkers! We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. Thanks! Claire Claire K. Henry Assistant Curator The Andy Warhol Film Project Whitney Museum of American Art 99 Gansevoort Street New York, NY 10014 Tel: 212 570 7740 Fax: 212 929 2019 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Claire: The camera is a Concord MTC-11, a relatively cheap and compact B video camera. Mostly used for surveillance. Warhol used one in August, 1965 when Norelco lent him a videotape recorder (in addition to the Norelco camera). He apparently carried it around as a fetish object/prop, since in most of these situations the camera wasn’t attached to a recorder or even a monitor. You can see it (with a Switar lens instead of the Canon 25-100 zoom shown in this photo) at a Beatles press conference in 1965 (misidentified as 1964 by Getty). It’s mentioned in a couple of books about Warhol, and IIRC also mentions it in the October, 1965 article in “Tape Recording” magazine. Blake Gopnik and Greg Pierce asked me about it last year, but apparently for a different book. Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com kinetta.com > On Dec 11, 2019, at 3:03 PM, Claire Henry, Curatorial > wrote: > > Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! > > Claire > > > https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html > > <https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html> > > > From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of > Claire Henry, Curatorial > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM > To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com) > > Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial > Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question > > Hi Frameworkers! > > We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue > raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these > photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If > anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. > > > Thanks! > > Claire > > > Claire K. Henry > Assistant Curator > The Andy Warhol Film Project > Whitney Museum of American Art > 99 Gansevoort Street > New York, NY 10014 > Tel: 212 570 7740 > Fax: 212 929 2019 > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
I would like to know too. I wonder if it was a real working camera or rather just a prop. The placement of the lens at the very top seems odd. I don't think there would be room to place a Super 8 cartridge inside with the lens in that position. --Ed-Original Message- From: "Claire Henry, Curatorial" Sent: Dec 11, 2019 3:03 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Cc: "Jessica Palinski, Curatorial" Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Camera question Ack, here’s the link. Apologies! Claire https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Claire Henry, Curatorial Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com) Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question Hi Frameworkers! We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. Thanks! Claire Claire K. Henry Assistant Curator The Andy Warhol Film Project Whitney Museum of American Art 99 Gansevoort Street New York, NY 10014 Tel: 212 570 7740 Fax: 212 929 2019 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Claire: Where do we find the photo? If it’s the photo I think it is, I answered that for someone working on the catalog a couple of years ago. Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com kinetta.com Sent from iPhone. > On Dec 11, 2019, at 3:00 PM, Claire Henry, Curatorial > wrote: > > Hi Frameworkers! > > We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue > raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these > photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I’m thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If > anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. > > > Thanks! > > Claire > > > Claire K. Henry > Assistant Curator > The Andy Warhol Film Project > Whitney Museum of American Art > 99 Gansevoort Street > New York, NY 10014 > Tel: 212 570 7740 > Fax: 212 929 2019 > > ___ > FrameWorks mailing list > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Camera question
Ack, here's the link. Apologies! Claire https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Catalogue/Burt-Glinn/1965/USA-NYC-Andy-WARHOL-Edie-SEDGWICK-and-Chuck-WEIN-NN112607.html From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Claire Henry, Curatorial Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 4:00 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List (frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com) Cc: Jessica Palinski, Curatorial Subject: [Frameworks] Camera question Hi Frameworkers! We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I'm thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. Thanks! Claire Claire K. Henry Assistant Curator The Andy Warhol Film Project Whitney Museum of American Art 99 Gansevoort Street New York, NY 10014 Tel: 212 570 7740 Fax: 212 929 2019 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] Camera question
Hi Frameworkers! We need some help identifying a camera in a photo of Warhol for our catalogue raisonné. Does anyone know what kind of camera Warhol is holding in these photos by Burt Glinn from 1965? I'm thinking Super 8, but am unsure. If anyone could provide any help that would be amazing and very welcomed. Thanks! Claire Claire K. Henry Assistant Curator The Andy Warhol Film Project Whitney Museum of American Art 99 Gansevoort Street New York, NY 10014 Tel: 212 570 7740 Fax: 212 929 2019 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
