subject:"\[Frameworks\] ELEPHANTS AND FILM"

Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

2013-03-29 Thread Albert Alcoz

Sorry to answer so late about this topic, but i did a cameraless found footage
film with some elephants on it,
It's part of the horror you're talking:
http://www.albertalcoz.com/2012/11/elephants-test.html

De: David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com
Para: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Enviado: Lunes 18 de marzo de 2013 19:02
Asunto: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

Esteemed cohorts everyone,

What I really love besides Experimental Film are Elephants.
I LOVE all Elephants but especially those that live free in the wild.
I love the complexity of elephant societies.

Something amazing to read is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

Something important to see is:
National Geographic - Battle For The Elephants (2013)

I hope everybody on this forum is aware of the horror that is happening to
these animals right now, today.
More Elephants are being killed
than are being born. They are being wiped out, expunged from the earth.
The numbers of those massacred are crazy.
Last year 30,000 elephants were murdered.
The killing rate is accelerating. The New York Times describes it as a frenzy.
Horribly helicopters and machine guns do the job annihilating whole herds.
China is the problem.
The CHINESE demand the elephant's ivory tusks to make ludicrous carved luxury
goods.

If there is hope it might be through FILM.

Apparently, ridiculously the burgeoning Chinese middle class thinks elephant
tusks fall out naturally.
They call them elephant teeth.
Using film to educate in Africa and China may be the elephants last best hope.

The Experimental Film community can contribute importantly and make a
difference.
Kickstarter it isn't, but If you want to help or know of a cognizant
compassionate human being who does
please go here:

http://africanenvironmentalfilms.squarespace.com/donate

or here

http://www.savetheelephants.org/home.html

If you are a teacher please share this with your students.
Time is of the essence.
The force of human compassion is the solution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/opinion/death-of-the-elephants.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=organized-crime-elephant-slaughter

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/02/world/asia/an-illicit-trail-of-african-ivory-to-china.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/opinion/sunday/slaughter-of-the-african-elephants.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/science/surveys-quantify-loss-of-african-elephants-for-ivory-trade.html?ref=elephants

http://ntdtv.org/en/news/china/2013-03-15/china-s-demand-for-ivory-fueling-elephant-poaching.html

-David Baker
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Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

2013-03-19 Thread David Baker


I need to be clear and then I'll be quiet.

I am not interested in thinking of ways to kill elephants.

I stand in awe and wonder in front of all animals endangered and  
otherwise,

I love all the living creatures of this planet.
Right now today the Elephant is being wiped out with a brutality and  
efficacy

not seen since we Americans destroyed the buffalo.

A tiny group of human beings think that by making films
about what is happening they may be able to educate
those who would kill the elephants and those who buy ivory to the  
horror and stop the killing.


The people who make the films are here:

http://africanenvironmentalfilms.squarespace.com/donate

African Environmental Film Foundation.

( As a point of information, in the African Elephants I am  
specifically speaking about,

both male and female have tusks.)

-DB

PS:  where is Chris Marker when I need him?




On Mar 19, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Sandra Maliga wrote:

Not advocating.  I don't want to see any elephants killed. I have  
no interest in ivory. I can't understand how there could be people  
who do not understand that elephants should never be killed. BUt  
there are. There are people who lie for money and people who listen  
to them.  Moreover people who like ivory have no respect for the  
law. And the laws are not enforced.


 So what can be done?

As I understand the Chinese, they are pretty pragmatic, if I can  
generalize. Maybe taking action to propose a way to get legitimate  
ivory could deflect some of the interest in illegal ivory.
Prohibition leads to crime, legalizing and controlling is better.


When elephants could live and flourish in the wild there were  
natural deaths that left tusks.  If a herd was provided with space  
to thrive tusks could occasionally be found.  If the space was  
limited humans might be able to reverently cull  the herd by  
painlessly killing extra males and gathering their tusks. A mother  
with young would never be killed by rational keepers.


Poachers are not concerned with keeping elephants alive; they care  
only for short term profit.  Poaching must be illegal.  Murdering  
mother elephants must be illegal.


Perhaps another possibility is to pressure the Chinese government to  
enforce the laws.  I went to the Chinese news in English - CCTV  
site   http://passport.cntv.cn/app_pass/verify/english/new/login.jsp?errtype=-5#


 and they have articles about the threats to elephants.   So some  
Chinese are aware.  How do THEY propose to get the word out to those  
who buy ivory?


- Sandy



On Mar 18, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Sandra Maliga neor...@e.com wrote:


This is tragic and infuriating.

Why can't anyone tell the Chinese people that elephants are  
threatened? If elephants are extinct there will be NO MORE IVORY.  
Don't they have media in China? Get the word out.


Why don't the Chinese import some elephants and start their own  
herd? They could manage them carefully and eventually harvest ivory  
when the herd needs thinning. No matter the cost; demand for ivory  
will drive the price ever higher. They could promote homegrown  
ivory as superior.


 Documentaries shown in the US and Europe make us feel bad but  
don't save animals.   How about showing some documentaries in  
China?  How about a message on every cell phone in China?  I'd give  
money for that.


- Sandy Maliga




On Mar 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com wrote:


Esteemed cohorts everyone,

What I really love besides Experimental Film are Elephants.
I LOVE all Elephants but especially those that live free in the  
wild.

I love the complexity of elephant societies.

Something amazing to read is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

Something important to see is:
National Geographic - Battle For The Elephants (2013)

I hope everybody on this forum is aware of the horror that is  
happening to these animals right now, today.

More Elephants are being killed
than are being born. They are being wiped out, expunged from the  
earth.

The numbers of those massacred are crazy.
Last year 30,000 elephants were murdered.
The killing rate is accelerating. The New York Times describes it  
as a frenzy.
Horribly helicopters and machine guns do the job annihilating  
whole herds.

China is the problem.
The CHINESE demand the elephant's ivory tusks to make ludicrous  
carved luxury goods.


If there is hope it might be through FILM.

Apparently, ridiculously the burgeoning Chinese middle class  
thinks elephant tusks fall out naturally.

They call them elephant teeth.
Using film to educate in Africa and China may be the elephants  
last best hope.


The Experimental Film community can contribute importantly and  
make a difference.
Kickstarter it isn't, but If you want to help or know of a  
cognizant compassionate human being who does

please go here:


http://africanenvironmentalfilms.squarespace.com/donate

or here

http://www.savetheelephants.org/home.html


If you are a teacher please share this

Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

2013-03-19 Thread kenneth curwood

Edison and Topsy, the salad days of cinema.


On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Brecht Debackere
bre...@visualantics.netwrote:

 'Unsere Afrika Reise' by Peter Kubelka is a wonderful experimental film
 leaving behind a bitter taste and a feeling of disgust for people killing
 for fun in Africa;
 I'm not sure if there's elephants in there, but maybe it brings your love
 for experimental films and preservation together.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SATUUtoipuc

 Brecht.

 ___
 www.exprmntl.be
 https://www.facebook.com/pages/Exprmntl/246769998683245


 On 19 Mar 2013, at 15:33, David Baker wrote:

 I need to be clear and then I'll be quiet.

 I am not interested in thinking of ways to kill elephants.

 I stand in awe and wonder in front of all animals endangered and otherwise,
 I love all the living creatures of this planet.
 Right now today the Elephant is being wiped out with a brutality and
 efficacy
 not seen since we Americans destroyed the buffalo.

 A tiny group of human beings think that by making films
 about what is happening they may be able to educate
 those who would kill the elephants and those who buy ivory to the horror
 and stop the killing.

 The people who make the films are here:

 http://africanenvironmentalfilms.squarespace.com/donate

 African Environmental Film Foundation.

 ( As a point of information, in the African Elephants I am specifically
 speaking about,
 both male and female have tusks.)

 -DB

 PS:  where is Chris Marker when I need him?




 On Mar 19, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Sandra Maliga wrote:

 Not advocating.  I don't want to see any elephants killed. I have no
 interest in ivory. I can't understand how there could be people who do not
 understand that elephants should never be killed. BUt there are. There are
 people who lie for money and people who listen to them.  Moreover people
 who like ivory have no respect for the law. And the laws are not enforced.

  So what can be done?

 As I understand the Chinese, they are pretty pragmatic, if I can
 generalize. Maybe taking action to propose a way to get legitimate ivory
 could deflect some of the interest in illegal ivory.   Prohibition leads to
 crime, legalizing and controlling is better.

 When elephants could live and flourish in the wild there were natural
 deaths that left tusks.  If a herd was provided with space to thrive tusks
 could occasionally be found.  If the space was limited humans might be able
 to reverently cull  the herd by painlessly killing extra males and
 gathering their tusks. A mother with young would never be killed by
 rational keepers.

 Poachers are not concerned with keeping elephants alive; they care only
 for short term profit.  Poaching must be illegal.  Murdering mother
 elephants must be illegal.

 Perhaps another possibility is to pressure the Chinese government to
 enforce the laws.  I went to the Chinese news in English - CCTV site
 http://passport.cntv.cn/app_pass/verify/english/new/login.jsp?errtype=-5#

  and they have articles about the threats to elephants.   So some Chinese
 are aware.  How do THEY propose to get the word out to those who buy ivory?

 - Sandy



 On Mar 18, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Sandra Maliga neor...@e.com wrote:

 This is tragic and infuriating.

 Why can't anyone tell the Chinese people that elephants are threatened? If
 elephants are extinct there will be NO MORE IVORY. Don't they have media in
 China? Get the word out.

 Why don't the Chinese import some elephants and start their own herd?
 They could manage them carefully and eventually harvest ivory when the herd
 needs thinning. No matter the cost; demand for ivory will drive the price
 ever higher. They could promote homegrown ivory as superior.

  Documentaries shown in the US and Europe make us feel bad but don't save
 animals.   How about showing some documentaries in China?  How about a
 message on every cell phone in China?  I'd give money for that.

 - Sandy Maliga




 On Mar 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com wrote:

 Esteemed cohorts everyone,

 What I really love besides Experimental Film are Elephants.
 I LOVE all Elephants but especially those that live free in the wild.
 I love the complexity of elephant societies.

 Something amazing to read is:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

 Something important to see is:
 National Geographic - Battle For The Elephants (2013)

 I hope everybody on this forum is aware of the horror that is happening to
 these animals right now, today.
 More Elephants are being killed
 than are being born. They are being wiped out, expunged from the earth.
 The numbers of those massacred are crazy.
 Last year 30,000 elephants were murdered.
 The killing rate is accelerating. The New York Times describes it as a
 frenzy.
 Horribly helicopters and machine guns do the job annihilating whole herds.
 China is the problem.
 The CHINESE demand the elephant's ivory tusks to make ludicrous carved

Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

2013-03-18 Thread Sandra Maliga

This is tragic and infuriating.

Why can't anyone tell the Chinese people that elephants are threatened? If
elephants are extinct there will be NO MORE IVORY. Don't they have media in
China? Get the word out.

Why don't the Chinese import some elephants and start their own herd? They
could manage them carefully and eventually harvest ivory when the herd needs
thinning. No matter the cost; demand for ivory will drive the price ever
higher. They could promote homegrown ivory as superior.

Documentaries shown in the US and Europe make us feel bad but don't save
animals. How about showing some documentaries in China? How about a message
on every cell phone in China? I'd give money for that.

- Sandy Maliga

On Mar 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com wrote:

Esteemed cohorts everyone,

What I really love besides Experimental Film are Elephants.
I LOVE all Elephants but especially those that live free in the wild.
I love the complexity of elephant societies.

Something amazing to read is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

Something important to see is:
National Geographic - Battle For The Elephants (2013)

If there is hope it might be through FILM.

http://africanenvironmentalfilms.squarespace.com/donate

or here

http://www.savetheelephants.org/home.html

If you are a teacher please share this with your students.
Time is of the essence.
The force of human compassion is the solution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/opinion/death-of-the-elephants.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=organized-crime-elephant-slaughter

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/02/world/asia/an-illicit-trail-of-african-ivory-to-china.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/opinion/sunday/slaughter-of-the-african-elephants.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/science/surveys-quantify-loss-of-african-elephants-for-ivory-trade.html?ref=elephants

http://ntdtv.org/en/news/china/2013-03-15/china-s-demand-for-ivory-fueling-elephant-poaching.html

-David Baker
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FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
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Sandy Maliga

4763 Toland Way
Los Angeles, CA 90042-2255

323.898.6331

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Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

2013-03-18 Thread elizabeth mcmahon

Sandy,
 
Seriously, is this what you're advocating, with homegrown ivory harvesting? 
Because this is how they get it. They hack their faces off. Oftentimes, since 
they are matriarchal groups of elephants, they end up leave orphans, who 
blessedly have no ivory, to fend for them selveselves. Thus, why I provided the 
link for the orphaned elephants and rhinos. Here it is again: 
http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/
 
 
I would like to implore everyone to educate themselves, and then others, on the 
gross depradations of all poaching in the wild (including bushmeat from 
endangered Western lowland gorillas), not just elephants, but also my personal 
favorites, rhinos (African western black rhinos are now extinct, as of a couple 
of years ago, and white - as all - rhinos are perilously threatened). 
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45236688/ns/world_news-world_environmen


Just extrapolate how many hacked to death elephants and rhinos this pic 
represents. RIP, you poor creatures.


Sorry, but this is a subject very close to my heart, as well.

Elizabeth

 


 From: David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com
To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com 
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM
  

Sandy,

I agree with you.

(I don't have all the answers.
I just know my heart is breaking.)
I want filmmakers on this list to understand that this is happening right now.
I want people to take a look at the ways of these wondrous sentient animals
in the wild. And I want people to learn and think more deeply about what
these animals actually are.
Conceptually we human beings often hold a very superficial idea
about what something as interesting and complex and distant as an ELEPHANT is
or more importantly what ELEPHANTS really are.
Mostly we have a notion formed in our heads whether we realize it or not 
about something that lives in the zoo or at the circus
and that just isn't it.
If you could take a few minutes to read the information on ELEPHANT COGNITION
you might be amazed.
( I just had no idea...)
Or watch this whole film here:
Echo: An Elephant to Remember


http://video.pbs.org/video/1616077152/

Once people here do educate themselves, they can decide to do nothing or do 
something.
I will tell you that the more you learn the harder it is to do nothing.

I want us to figure out a way fast , to tell the Chinese to stop!


At very least please sign the petition Elizabeth McMahon brilliantly brought 
to us,


Sign here to voice your opposition to the ivory trade: 
https://secure3.convio.net/wcs/site/Advocacy?cmd=displaypage=UserActionid=539autologin=trueJServSessionIdr004=5o6l2lo511.app333a
 


The African Environmental Film Foundation
screened their film White Gold in Bangkok on March 3.

https://www.facebook.com/AEFFonline?ref=stream

My understanding is that they will be trying to do just what you suggest.
Arne Glimcher of the Pace Gallery is the chairman of the foundation, he says
they plan to show the film in Beijing, with a Mandarin narration,
in Hong Kong,Singapore,Thailand, Indonesia and Japan.


No question, here FILM and the fate of this animal are inextricably linked.


-DB





On Mar 18, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Sandra Maliga wrote:

This is tragic and infuriating.


Why can't anyone tell the Chinese people that elephants are threatened?  If 
elephants are extinct there will be NO MORE IVORY. Don't they have media in 
China? Get the word out. 


Why don't the Chinese import some elephants and start their own herd?  They 
could manage them carefully and eventually harvest ivory when the herd needs 
thinning. No matter the cost; demand for ivory will drive the price ever 
higher.  They could promote homegrown ivory as superior.


 Documentaries shown in the US and Europe make us feel bad but don't save 
animals.   How about showing some documentaries in China?  How about a 
message on every cell phone in China?  I'd give money for that.


- Sandy Maliga








On Mar 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com wrote:

Esteemed cohorts everyone,


What I really love besides Experimental Film are Elephants.
I LOVE all Elephants but especially those that live free in the wild.
I love the complexity of elephant societies.

Something amazing to read is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

Something important to see is:
National Geographic - Battle For The Elephants (2013)

I hope everybody on this forum is aware of the horror that is happening to 
these animals right now, today.
More Elephants are being killed
than are being born. They are being wiped out, expunged from the earth.
The numbers of those massacred are crazy.
Last year 30,000 elephants were murdered.
The killing rate is accelerating. The New York Times describes it as a 
frenzy.
Horribly helicopters and machine guns do the job annihilating whole herds.
China is the problem.
The CHINESE demand the elephant's ivory tusks to make ludicrous carved

Re: [Frameworks] ELEPHANTS AND FILM

2013-03-18 Thread Sandra Maliga

Not advocating. I don't want to see any elephants killed. I have no interest
in ivory. I can't understand how there could be people who do not understand
that elephants should never be killed. BUt there are. There are people who lie
for money and people who listen to them. Moreover people who like ivory have
no respect for the law. And the laws are not enforced.

So what can be done?

As I understand the Chinese, they are pretty pragmatic, if I can generalize.
Maybe taking action to propose a way to get legitimate ivory could deflect some
of the interest in illegal ivory. Prohibition leads to crime, legalizing and
controlling is better.

When elephants could live and flourish in the wild there were natural deaths
that left tusks. If a herd was provided with space to thrive tusks could
occasionally be found. If the space was limited humans might be able to
reverently cull the herd by painlessly killing extra males and gathering
their tusks. A mother with young would never be killed by rational keepers.

Poachers are not concerned with keeping elephants alive; they care only for
short term profit. Poaching must be illegal. Murdering mother elephants must
be illegal.

Perhaps another possibility is to pressure the Chinese government to enforce
the laws. I went to the Chinese news in English - CCTV site
http://passport.cntv.cn/app_pass/verify/english/new/login.jsp?errtype=-5#

and they have articles about the threats to elephants. So some Chinese are
aware. How do THEY propose to get the word out to those who buy ivory?

- Sandy

On Mar 18, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Sandra Maliga neor...@e.com wrote:

This is tragic and infuriating.

Why can't anyone tell the Chinese people that elephants are threatened? If
elephants are extinct there will be NO MORE IVORY. Don't they have media in
China? Get the word out.

Documentaries shown in the US and Europe make us feel bad but don't save
animals. How about showing some documentaries in China? How about a
message on every cell phone in China? I'd give money for that.

- Sandy Maliga

On Mar 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, David Baker dbak...@hvc.rr.com wrote:

Esteemed cohorts everyone,

What I really love besides Experimental Film are Elephants.
I LOVE all Elephants but especially those that live free in the wild.
I love the complexity of elephant societies.

Something amazing to read is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

Something important to see is:
National Geographic - Battle For The Elephants (2013)

I hope everybody on this forum is aware of the horror that is happening to
these animals right now, today.
More Elephants are being killed
than are being born. They are being wiped out, expunged from the earth.
The numbers of those massacred are crazy.
Last year 30,000 elephants were murdered.
The killing rate is accelerating. The New York Times describes it as a
frenzy.
Horribly helicopters and machine guns do the job annihilating whole herds.
China is the problem.
The CHINESE demand the elephant's ivory tusks to make ludicrous carved
luxury goods.