Re: [Frameworks] FILMS for ONE to EIGHT PROJECTORS tour dates (VERY off-topic reply)

[André Colinet]

Dear Fred,



me too I know that feeling and thanks for your inspiring publication on Bach.

But I’m still optimistic because I believe that all that kind of thinking, and 
the existence of strong art (whatever that means), have a long term, 
homeopathic, spiritual influence on people's mind.

And certainly concerning education of children.

At the other hand it's a struggle of all times: "contemplating the way today’s 
vulgarities seem to command the overwhelming share of our energy and attention",

I'm afraid that the culture of vulgarity has always been dominant in all times 
and not only in Western society.



All the best.



André






Van: FrameWorks <frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com> namens Els van Riel 
<m...@elsvanriel.be>
Verzonden: maandag 12 februari 2018 10:05
Aan: Experimental Film Discussion List
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] FILMS for ONE to EIGHT PROJECTORS tour dates (VERY 
off-topic reply)

Thank you Fred for your essay!

(winter here too, but our sky is blue today)


Els van Riel
Brussels


On 11 Feb 2018, at 21:31, Fred Camper 
<f...@fredcamper.com<mailto:f...@fredcamper.com>> wrote:


I have been staying away from "meta" comments on this list in recent years, but 
now I cannot resist. What follows is all seriously off-topic, so feel free to 
ignore.

The only negative comment I can make to Jonathan is that none of the mistakenly 
sent personal emails over the years have even remotely measured up to the 
gentle, almost poetic love letter someone posted by mistake -- someone who then 
vanished from the list.  We never did learn how far along the affair, or 
hoped-for affair, progressed, but I for one hope it blossomed into bliss.

I will try to see a Beebe show when I can.

But the other comment, to Jonathan and all, is that I have more than one friend 
who has reported strange depressions and other disconnections in the last year. 
And I have had to admit to myself that I am part of this too -- how else to 
explain staying in bed most of some days, alternating between doing nothing and 
reading the news on my phone, when things i would enjoy much more, and actually 
believe in, beckon? And I have a diagnosis for us: we are depressed because the 
world is going to hell. Or as Jonathan put it, our civilization might not make 
it. The planet might not too.

It is not just that "short-fingered vulgarian" at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue; 
look at what is going on in Poland, Hungary, Turkey, the Philippines, and many 
other countries: just as bad, though mostly without the threat of nuclear 
holocaust.

I have a theory. There was a drought in Syria a decade ago, causing huge 
migration to the cities, providing people with nothing much to do. Many fought 
in the coming civil war. There are many causes for droughts; climate change 
could be on contributor. Is much of the entire migrant crisis due to climate 
change? Given that Trump's election win was so narrow, it probably was; even 
though the decline of coal was not caused by climate-sensitive 
environmentalists, many voters thought it was. The unpredictable and surprising 
effects of climate change seem likely to me to cause populations to the 
rational thinking that is essential to democracy and seek out "Great Leaders," 
however hideous they might be. If these effects are happening now, with a sea 
level rise of less than a foot since 1900, I shudder to think of the result of 
the sea level rising only one foot from here, something that seems inevitable. 
There are many more effects besides flooding, including increasingly harsh 
weather extremes, such as massive storms, of which we have already seen a few.

I sure hope I am wrong, that we will institute fixes for the climate (which 
will however require massive carbon-removal projects as well as an end to 
emissions) before it is too late, and that in a few years we will be seeing 
democracies progress again. But meanwhile the US is ruled by a would-be despot 
who thinks that the Democrats' failure to applaud his speech constitutes 
treason, also showing that they do not love their country very much (which, by 
the way, is not the same thing as treason). Applauding the leader's speech = 
loving one's country. I can think of other countries whose governments would 
claim that, but all are bad dictatorships.

I cannot believe that even the rational do-gooder "good people" are mostly not 
acting on the massive threat climate change presents. Curing disease in Africa, 
as the Gates Foundation is doing, will make no difference in the face of this 
potential apocalypse.

I have a short, somewhat related essay, titled Trump, Bach, and Me, at 
http://fredcamper.com/W/Bach.html in both print and audio form.

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 2/11/2018 9:33 AM, Jonathan Walley wrote:

Ha Ha! I used to heap scorn and mockery upon people who accidentally sent 
personal emails to listservs by incor

Re: [Frameworks] FILMS for ONE to EIGHT PROJECTORS tour dates (VERY off-topic reply)

[Els van Riel]

Thank you Fred for your essay!

(winter here too, but our sky is blue today)


Els van Riel
Brussels


On 11 Feb 2018, at 21:31, Fred Camper  wrote:

I have been staying away from "meta" comments on this list in recent years, but 
now I cannot resist. What follows is all seriously off-topic, so feel free to 
ignore.
The only negative comment I can make to Jonathan is that none of the mistakenly 
sent personal emails over the years have even remotely measured up to the 
gentle, almost poetic love letter someone posted by mistake -- someone who then 
vanished from the list.  We never did learn how far along the affair, or 
hoped-for affair, progressed, but I for one hope it blossomed into bliss.
I will try to see a Beebe show when I can.

But the other comment, to Jonathan and all, is that I have more than one friend 
who has reported strange depressions and other disconnections in the last year. 
And I have had to admit to myself that I am part of this too -- how else to 
explain staying in bed most of some days, alternating between doing nothing and 
reading the news on my phone, when things i would enjoy much more, and actually 
believe in, beckon? And I have a diagnosis for us: we are depressed because the 
world is going to hell. Or as Jonathan put it, our civilization might not make 
it. The planet might not too.

It is not just that "short-fingered vulgarian" at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue; 
look at what is going on in Poland, Hungary, Turkey, the Philippines, and many 
other countries: just as bad, though mostly without the threat of nuclear 
holocaust.

I have a theory. There was a drought in Syria a decade ago, causing huge 
migration to the cities, providing people with nothing much to do. Many fought 
in the coming civil war. There are many causes for droughts; climate change 
could be on contributor. Is much of the entire migrant crisis due to climate 
change? Given that Trump's election win was so narrow, it probably was; even 
though the decline of coal was not caused by climate-sensitive 
environmentalists, many voters thought it was. The unpredictable and surprising 
effects of climate change seem likely to me to cause populations to the 
rational thinking that is essential to democracy and seek out "Great Leaders," 
however hideous they might be. If these effects are happening now, with a sea 
level rise of less than a foot since 1900, I shudder to think of the result of 
the sea level rising only one foot from here, something that seems inevitable. 
There are many more effects besides flooding, including increasingly harsh 
weather extremes, such as massive storms, of which we have already seen a few.
I sure hope I am wrong, that we will institute fixes for the climate (which 
will however require massive carbon-removal projects as well as an end to 
emissions) before it is too late, and that in a few years we will be seeing 
democracies progress again. But meanwhile the US is ruled by a would-be despot 
who thinks that the Democrats' failure to applaud his speech constitutes 
treason, also showing that they do not love their country very much (which, by 
the way, is not the same thing as treason). Applauding the leader's speech = 
loving one's country. I can think of other countries whose governments would 
claim that, but all are bad dictatorships.
I cannot believe that even the rational do-gooder "good people" are mostly not 
acting on the massive threat climate change presents. Curing disease in Africa, 
as the Gates Foundation is doing, will make no difference in the face of this 
potential apocalypse.

I have a short, somewhat related essay, titled Trump, Bach, and Me, at 
http://fredcamper.com/W/Bach.html  in both 
print and audio form.
Fred Camper
Chicago

On 2/11/2018 9:33 AM, Jonathan Walley wrote:
> Ha Ha! I used to heap scorn and mockery upon people who accidentally sent 
> personal emails to listservs by incorrectly replying. But now I have made the 
> same embarrassing gaffe! Oh, woe is me.
> 
> Well, now everyone knows about my very high opinion of Roger Beebe’s work, 
> which you absolutely should see if Roger comes to your town, as well as my 
> personal anguish and agony - and I welcome any commiserating responses, as 
> well as scorn and mockery. I could have pretended it was an intentionally 
> post-modern “review” of Roger’s show, in the tradition of published letters 
> to and from filmmakers and critics (Dear Stan Brakhage…), but I decided to be 
> honest instead. But Roger, since it’s now public, you’re welcome to use my 
> email in any and all publicity for your forthcoming programs. 
> 
> Sorry everyone for unwittingly - wittlessly - opening the grimy window onto 
> my stupid problems.
> All best,
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> Dr. Jonathan Walley
> Associate Professor and Chair
> Department of Cinema
> Denison University
> wall...@denison.edu 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Frameworks] FILMS for ONE to EIGHT PROJECTORS tour dates (VERY off-topic reply)

[Fred Camper]

I have been staying away from "meta" comments on this list in recent 
years, but now I cannot resist. What follows is all seriously off-topic, 
so feel free to ignore.


The only negative comment I can make to Jonathan is that none of the 
mistakenly sent personal emails over the years have even remotely 
measured up to the gentle, almost poetic love letter someone posted by 
mistake -- someone who then vanished from the list.  We never did learn 
how far along the affair, or hoped-for affair, progressed, but I for one 
hope it blossomed into bliss.


I will try to see a Beebe show when I can.

But the other comment, to Jonathan and all, is that I have more than one 
friend who has reported strange depressions and other disconnections in 
the last year. And I have had to admit to myself that I am part of this 
too -- how else to explain staying in bed most of some days, alternating 
between doing nothing and reading the news on my phone, when things i 
would enjoy much more, and actually believe in, beckon? And I have a 
diagnosis for us: we are depressed because the world is going to hell. 
Or as Jonathan put it, our civilization might not make it. The planet 
might not too.


It is not just that "short-fingered vulgarian" at 1600 Pennsylvania 
Avenue; look at what is going on in Poland, Hungary, Turkey, the 
Philippines, and many other countries: just as bad, though mostly 
without the threat of nuclear holocaust.


I have a theory. There was a drought in Syria a decade ago, causing huge 
migration to the cities, providing people with nothing much to do. Many 
fought in the coming civil war. There are many causes for droughts; 
climate change could be on contributor. Is much of the entire migrant 
crisis due to climate change? Given that Trump's election win was so 
narrow, it probably was; even though the decline of coal was not caused 
by climate-sensitive environmentalists, many voters thought it was. The 
unpredictable and surprising effects of climate change seem likely to me 
to cause populations to the rational thinking that is essential to 
democracy and seek out "Great Leaders," however hideous they might be. 
If these effects are happening now, with a sea level rise of less than a 
foot since 1900, I shudder to think of the result of the sea level 
rising only one foot from here, something that seems inevitable. There 
are many more effects besides flooding, including increasingly harsh 
weather extremes, such as massive storms, of which we have already seen 
a few.


I sure hope I am wrong, that we will institute fixes for the climate 
(which will however require massive carbon-removal projects as well as 
an end to emissions) before it is too late, and that in a few years we 
will be seeing democracies progress again. But meanwhile the US is ruled 
by a would-be despot who thinks that the Democrats' failure to applaud 
his speech constitutes treason, also showing that they do not love their 
country very much (which, by the way, is not the same thing as treason). 
Applauding the leader's speech = loving one's country. I can think of 
other countries whose governments would claim that, but all are bad 
dictatorships.


I cannot believe that even the rational do-gooder "good people" are 
mostly not acting on the massive threat climate change presents. Curing 
disease in Africa, as the Gates Foundation is doing, will make no 
difference in the face of this potential apocalypse.


I have a short, somewhat related essay, titled /Trump, Bach, and Me/, at 
http://fredcamper.com/W/Bach.html in both print and audio form.


Fred Camper
Chicago

On 2/11/2018 9:33 AM, Jonathan Walley wrote:

Ha Ha! I used to heap scorn and mockery upon people who accidentally sent 
personal emails to listservs by incorrectly replying. But now I have made the 
same embarrassing gaffe! Oh, woe is me.

Well, now everyone knows about my very high opinion of Roger Beebe’s work, 
which you absolutely should see if Roger comes to your town, as well as my 
personal anguish and agony - and I welcome any commiserating responses, as well 
as scorn and mockery. I could have pretended it was an intentionally 
post-modern “review” of Roger’s show, in the tradition of published letters to 
and from filmmakers and critics (Dear Stan Brakhage…), but I decided to be 
honest instead. But Roger, since it’s now public, you’re welcome to use my 
email in any and all publicity for your forthcoming programs.

Sorry everyone for unwittingly - wittlessly - opening the grimy window onto my 
stupid problems.
All best,
Jonathan


Dr. Jonathan Walley
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Cinema
Denison University
wall...@denison.edu


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