Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
As someone who has recently been an employee (contact and limited optical printer) at Colorlab, I can say that Super 8mm to 16mm are on the way out. IF they would agree to do it for you, it would unfortunately take a VERY long time for the project to be completed. I LOVE Colorlab for a lot of things, but if I were you I would look elsewhere. mike rice On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 5:37 AM, David Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com wrote: Well, first, the only way the scales are tipping in any venue is toward digital projection. Setting up a 16mm micro-cinema requires finding a working projector that won't eat prints, finding the increasingly rare short and fast lenses that will fill a decent sized screen, and dealing with beat-up rental prints... But that whine is just mere preface to my central point... to wit: It strikes me that just as we have traditionally distinguished between acquisition formats and distribution formats, we are now at the point (if we haven't been already) where it makes sense to distinguish between post-production formats and distribution formats, and the choice of the former is best made based on aesthetic concerns, and ought to be relatively agnostic toward the latter. A number of years ago at the Flaherty, I was surprised to learn that some of the most visually striking experimental shorts I saw had been shot on Super-8, gone through a high-res scan and a digital intermediate, and then finished on 35mm. That was something I never would have thought people would do, but the process produced what struck me as a unique and engaging look. And, though I don't know absolutely, I'm pretty sure we were watching 16mm prints, since I don't think Vassar had a 35mm projector. So my hypothesis is that regardless of how you screen the work, blowing up Super8 to 35mm will produce a visibly different effect than blowing it up to 16mm. Now, IFF that's an effect you want, and if, as Scott says, the cost of going to 35mm is not significantly higher than going to 16mm, then 35mm would seem to make more sense. Again, it all depends on your aesthetic goals. I know Roger, for instance, is all about an integrated low-fi, low-budget everything-has-to-fit-in-my-trunk 'praxis'. Give the man access to a Xerox machine and he's in his element! But we all have different elements, (if we have elements... I'm not sure I do... but I digress. djt On Dec 7, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Beebe, Roger wrote: Just wanted to say RE: 35mm vs. 16mm, that Scott's sentiments seem to echo the traditional wisdom about the omnipresence of 35mm, but with the rapid scrapping of 35mm projectors from almost every multiplex (and most of the art houses) in the U.S., it seems the scales may be tipping back in the direction of 16mm. If nothing else, it's easy to throw up a 16mm classroom projector to convert any darkened room into a microcinema; not so easy to do that with 35mm (even with my portable Chinese projectors that come in 8 boxes weigh hundreds of pounds). 2 cents, Roger ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Super 8 to 16mm Blow Up
Hello Jerrett Here at Metropolis Post we can scan your Super 8 footage on a laser graphics Scan Station then record out to a 16mm Negative on our Laser Graphics Film Recorder, the results will be superior to doing it on any optical printer which usually yield very high contrast blown out results. Especially due to the fact that Kodak discounted the best stock they ever made for photo chemical inter negatives which was 2272 and 3372. John T Rizzo President 212 563 9388 O 201 681 7996 C www.Metpostny.com ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Super 8 to 16mm Blow Up
On which subject, I have one of the 5/8 f/2.1 Bell and Howell lenses for the later BH projectors (500-series and on), for sale. I never liked the things, they are just not all that sharp, but if you're stuck with a short throw they do the job. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
Hello Jerrett I personally think you'd be much better off to do it yourself on an optical printer. Or maybe find a friend who uses an optical printer that can do it for you. I think having a lab do it might end up turning out to be very expensive. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Jarrett Hayman jfhay...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Does anyone know if Colorlab in Maryland still does blow-ups from super-8 to 16mm? Their new website layout seems to omit this information, whereas I remember reading as much on the old site. If not, are there any labs in the US that will do 8 to 16 blow-ups? Thanks, -J. Hayman ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
You have to be careful. I have recently scanned S8 film that had been blown up on a JK printer, and there was severe perf damage that entered the image area. This was caused by a slightly misaligned JK projector head. These days I am not sure if 16mm blowups from S8 are the best way to go unless you really need 16mm prints. We have been doing a lot of 3.3K scans from Super-8 for theatrical documentaries and the quality is excellent — much better control over contrast, and better resolution because of the lack of generation loss. See OUR NIXON for an example. 2K isn’t really enough for S8, as odd as that seems, and HD certainly isn’t enough (for the original scan resolution). See this for some examples: http://db.tt/5SlAVkbT Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com kinetta.com kinettaarchival.com On Dec 7, 2013, at 8:35 AM, Jon Behrens bolex...@msn.com wrote: Hello Jerrett I personally think you'd be much better off to do it yourself on an optical printer. Or maybe find a friend who uses an optical printer that can do it for you. I think having a lab do it might end up turning out to be very expensive. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Jarrett Hayman jfhay...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Does anyone know if Colorlab in Maryland still does blow-ups from super-8 to 16mm? Their new website layout seems to omit this information, whereas I remember reading as much on the old site. If not, are there any labs in the US that will do 8 to 16 blow-ups? Thanks, -J. Hayman ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
Good point Jeff Sent from my iPhone On Dec 7, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Jeff Kreines j...@kinetta.com wrote: You have to be careful. I have recently scanned S8 film that had been blown up on a JK printer, and there was severe perf damage that entered the image area. This was caused by a slightly misaligned JK projector head. These days I am not sure if 16mm blowups from S8 are the best way to go unless you really need 16mm prints. We have been doing a lot of 3.3K scans from Super-8 for theatrical documentaries and the quality is excellent — much better control over contrast, and better resolution because of the lack of generation loss. See OUR NIXON for an example. 2K isn’t really enough for S8, as odd as that seems, and HD certainly isn’t enough (for the original scan resolution).See this for some examples: http://db.tt/5SlAVkbT Jeff Kreines Kinetta j...@kinetta.com kinetta.com kinettaarchival.com On Dec 7, 2013, at 8:35 AM, Jon Behrens bolex...@msn.com wrote: Hello Jerrett I personally think you'd be much better off to do it yourself on an optical printer. Or maybe find a friend who uses an optical printer that can do it for you. I think having a lab do it might end up turning out to be very expensive. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Jarrett Hayman jfhay...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Does anyone know if Colorlab in Maryland still does blow-ups from super-8 to 16mm? Their new website layout seems to omit this information, whereas I remember reading as much on the old site. If not, are there any labs in the US that will do 8 to 16 blow-ups? Thanks, -J. Hayman ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
Hi Jarrett, I have completed numerous Super 8mm to 16mm blow ups using a JK printer in the past and have had great results. The main thing to take into consideration is the quality of the Super 8mm footage. Is it recently shot and processed film or is it older stock that has been sitting around for some time. You tend to have more problems with registration with shrunken Super 8mm. With older film I find you get better results if you do not rely on the digital sequencer to advance the film through the projector and to advance it yourself, a frame at a time. Its a longer process but the results are more pleasing. Having a good Super 8mm gate for the JK printer is also a priority. Its not hard to do this yourself but finding system to use may be tough. Do you have any film co-ops or film societies in your area, they may have one or know of where to access one. If you manage to do it yourself give me a shout and I can give you some info on completing tests prior to shooting the final blow up, you will need to complete a few exposure tests, etc. prior to filming. Good luck! Stay on film! Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist613 324 - 7504rogerdwilson@sympatico.cahttp://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 21:58:57 -0600 From: jfhay...@gmail.com To: FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups? Hello all, Does anyone know if Colorlab in Maryland still does blow-ups from super-8 to 16mm? Their new website layout seems to omit this information, whereas I remember reading as much on the old site. If not, are there any labs in the US that will do 8 to 16 blow-ups? Thanks, -J. Hayman ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
Thanks all, that certainly gives me plenty to think about. I don't know where to find an optical printer. My primary motivation for doing blow-ups is the fact that super-8 reversal is getting harder to find, and I'd like to find a way to avoid shipping negatives to Andec in Germany to have prints made, as they seem to be the only lab that will make super 8 prints at all. -JH On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.cawrote: Hi Jarrett, I have completed numerous Super 8mm to 16mm blow ups using a JK printer in the past and have had great results. The main thing to take into consideration is the quality of the Super 8mm footage. Is it recently shot and processed film or is it older stock that has been sitting around for some time. You tend to have more problems with registration with shrunken Super 8mm. With older film I find you get better results if you do not rely on the digital sequencer to advance the film through the projector and to advance it yourself, a frame at a time. Its a longer process but the results are more pleasing. Having a good Super 8mm gate for the JK printer is also a priority. Its not hard to do this yourself but finding system to use may be tough. Do you have any film co-ops or film societies in your area, they may have one or know of where to access one. If you manage to do it yourself give me a shout and I can give you some info on completing tests prior to shooting the final blow up, you will need to complete a few exposure tests, etc. prior to filming. Good luck! Stay on film! Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. -- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 21:58:57 -0600 From: jfhay...@gmail.com To: FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups? Hello all, Does anyone know if Colorlab in Maryland still does blow-ups from super-8 to 16mm? Their new website layout seems to omit this information, whereas I remember reading as much on the old site. If not, are there any labs in the US that will do 8 to 16 blow-ups? Thanks, -J. Hayman ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
Just wanted to say RE: 35mm vs. 16mm, that Scott's sentiments seem to echo the traditional wisdom about the omnipresence of 35mm, but with the rapid scrapping of 35mm projectors from almost every multiplex (and most of the art houses) in the U.S., it seems the scales may be tipping back in the direction of 16mm. If nothing else, it's easy to throw up a 16mm classroom projector to convert any darkened room into a microcinema; not so easy to do that with 35mm (even with my portable Chinese projectors that come in 8 boxes weigh hundreds of pounds). 2 cents, Roger On Dec 7, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote: There are still good reasons to blow Super-8 up to 16mm, mostly if you have a few short Super-8 scenes that you want to conform into a 16mm film. Take the Super-8 OCP, get a 16mm interneg made, and it'll cut right into your 16mm camera negs. But... if I were going to do a blowup from Super-8, my inclination would be to just blow-up to 35mm since these days 16mm really is not a popular release format and there are far more places able to show 35mm than 16mm. For a short film the cost won't be that much more. Jeff's comment about scans is a good one, and the scan will allow you to do a digital intermediate and in the process clean up some of the inevitable film damage defects on the Super-8 original. I don't know what the current costs are to scan it and then get a 35mm filmout are, but it gives the filmmaker another whole level of control and at 3k really no sacrifice in sharpness or tonal scale. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] super-8 to 16mm blow ups?
Well, first, the only way the scales are tipping in any venue is toward digital projection. Setting up a 16mm micro-cinema requires finding a working projector that won't eat prints, finding the increasingly rare short and fast lenses that will fill a decent sized screen, and dealing with beat-up rental prints... But that whine is just mere preface to my central point... to wit: It strikes me that just as we have traditionally distinguished between acquisition formats and distribution formats, we are now at the point (if we haven't been already) where it makes sense to distinguish between post-production formats and distribution formats, and the choice of the former is best made based on aesthetic concerns, and ought to be relatively agnostic toward the latter. A number of years ago at the Flaherty, I was surprised to learn that some of the most visually striking experimental shorts I saw had been shot on Super-8, gone through a high-res scan and a digital intermediate, and then finished on 35mm. That was something I never would have thought people would do, but the process produced what struck me as a unique and engaging look. And, though I don't know absolutely, I'm pretty sure we were watching 16mm prints, since I don't think Vassar had a 35mm projector. So my hypothesis is that regardless of how you screen the work, blowing up Super8 to 35mm will produce a visibly different effect than blowing it up to 16mm. Now, IFF that's an effect you want, and if, as Scott says, the cost of going to 35mm is not significantly higher than going to 16mm, then 35mm would seem to make more sense. Again, it all depends on your aesthetic goals. I know Roger, for instance, is all about an integrated low-fi, low-budget everything-has-to-fit-in-my-trunk 'praxis'. Give the man access to a Xerox machine and he's in his element! But we all have different elements, (if we have elements... I'm not sure I do... but I digress. djt On Dec 7, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Beebe, Roger wrote: Just wanted to say RE: 35mm vs. 16mm, that Scott's sentiments seem to echo the traditional wisdom about the omnipresence of 35mm, but with the rapid scrapping of 35mm projectors from almost every multiplex (and most of the art houses) in the U.S., it seems the scales may be tipping back in the direction of 16mm. If nothing else, it's easy to throw up a 16mm classroom projector to convert any darkened room into a microcinema; not so easy to do that with 35mm (even with my portable Chinese projectors that come in 8 boxes weigh hundreds of pounds). 2 cents, Roger ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Super 8 to 16mm
Thanks Bernd, i know Andec by its reputation. I'm in Buenos Aires, so it's the same if its in Europe or North America. best,p. --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Bernd Luetzeler fi...@gmx.de wrote: From: Bernd Luetzeler fi...@gmx.de Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Super 8 to 16mm To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 1:53 PM Depends where you are. ANDEC in Berlin does it.B Am 09.09.2012 um 18:44 schrieb Pablo Marin: Hi dear friends, can anyone recommend any good place to make a blow up from super 8mm to 16mm? best to all,pablo. ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
