Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos]

> From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thu Nov  1 10:55:05 2007
>
> > There's at least one FreeBSD missing from your list, Gentoo/FreeBSD.
>
> Is there a way of differentiating Gentoo/kFreeBSD from Debian/kFreeBSD?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

If you're asking what's the best way of an unknowing program to distinguish
where it is running, then I don't know.
Since Debian and Gentoo are such different distributions, there should be lots
of different files characteristic to either.

The files which stand out more clearly in Gentoo are those related to portage,
the port maintenance utility (which must have been inspired by FreeBSD ports) 
and
the system profile, /etc/make.profile.

Debian/kFreeBSD and Gentoo/FreeBSD are supposed to be quite different projects,
since kFreeBSD is based on the porting of glibc to FreeBSD, and Gentoo/FreeBSD
uses FreeBSD libc.

I'd be curious to know what uname -a returns on Gentoo/FreeBSD. I don't have it
installed.
I deployed a lot of Gentoos at work because I didn't want to force people into
FreeBSD, but I'm not an administration or distro expert.

If bsdports was installed using an ebuild (the equivalent of a FreeBSD port),
there would be no further need for distinction.

If you mean to introduce this distinction and port bsdstats to Gentoo/FreeBSD
and there's any more information I can provide you, I'd be glad to assist.

Miguel
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

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- --On Wednesday, October 31, 2007 01:51:32 + Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> By the way, the numbers really are low...
> We're probably somewhere between 1% and 5% of the hosts actually running
> FreeBSD (guessing). If this number does not increase by a factor of ten, then
> this technique won't do much good...

These stats rely on ppl installing / enabling software ... with PC-BSD, this is 
done automatically, which is what is putting their numbers up so fast ... I 
don't know enough about sysinstall to get it so that it at least prompts new 
installs to install/enable, but I think that that is the next step ... still 
not 'enable by default' ..

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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

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- --On Wednesday, October 31, 2007 01:32:35 + Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There's at least one FreeBSD missing from your list, Gentoo/FreeBSD.
> I'll try to get more people reporting. Only 10 in Portugal? What a shame... 2
> are mine... I know more FreeBSD hosts than that...

Is there a way of differentiating Gentoo/kFreeBSD from Debian/kFreeBSD?

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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos]

By the way, the numbers really are low...
We're probably somewhere between 1% and 5% of the hosts actually running 
FreeBSD (guessing).
If this number does not increase by a factor of ten, then this technique won't
do much good... I wonder if the statistics where made for the number of hosts
cvsuping, portsnapping, etc, if these were available, would be higher.

See you,

Miguel
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos]

> From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Wed Oct 31 00:44:12 2007
>
> >> From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > [...]
> >> Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of
> >> month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ...
> >>
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, on what criteria do you clean up your list? Maybe
> > you're cleaning it up too often, no?
>
> Clean up our list?

Well, since the numbers go down I assumed you have some periodic cleanup of the
list of hosts reporting...
If you're showing only the number of hosts reported on a given month, it's the
same as a monthly cleanup.
Since hosts report monthly, wouldn't it be better to report the number of hosts
which reported in the last two or three months? Otherwise, if they fail to
report for some conjunctural reason, say due to maintenance, the numbers
will decrease falsely.

[...]
> There are actually other ports that are interactive in nature, and more often 
> then bsdstats ... install postfix sometime, and then upgrade it?  Every time 
> you upgrade it, it will ask you if you want to enable it ...

That's nasty...
Looks like I was lucky when I chose to go with sendmail.

> > When we, users, see a port changing, we do not know if it is only the 
> > install
> > which changed or the program behaviour which changed.
> > Certainly the install has changed behaviour, and that is troublesome for
> > portupgrades done in batch.
>
> Why?  There has only been one time where a change should have affected 
> portupgrade, and that was when we added the /etc/rc.conf interactive ... 
> being 
> that, it *should* be totally transparent ...
>
[...]
> There are only two times it should *ever* have prompted ppl ... on initial 
> *manual* install, and, if they installed before the /etc/rc.conf changes, on 
> a 
> portupgrade after that ... beyond that, it should be more transparent then 
> installing postfix ...
>
> If you do find a condition where you are being 'held up' on a portupgrade, do 
> please let me know, as it shouldn't happen ...

I'm sorry. It really must have been my memory of the early days of bsdstats, in
which it changed a bit frequently and then the rc.conf changes. Memory is often 
unfair.

Anyway, I just portupgraded bsdstats and it asked... Well, you see, I keep all
my settings in rc.conf.local, because nobody is supposed to change that
automatically, and this way I can keep rc.conf.local versioned on my svn
repository for configuration files... So, I usually keep rc.conf clean.
The pkg-install asks simply because the line is not on rc.conf.

Well... there isn't a one-size-fits-all, I understand. There's lots of other
stuff which makes portupgrades less batchable, the yes/no thing is not the only
one and it's a problem which I can easily go around, now that I know the
behaviour to expect. Worse problems for portupgrades are managing WITH_ options
for all ports... It's easier in gentoo (also has downsides...)

Thank you for looking through my perspective. I wish people were so attentive 
on the
other higher volume mailing lists.
There's at least one FreeBSD missing from your list, Gentoo/FreeBSD.
I'll try to get more people reporting. Only 10 in Portugal? What a shame... 2
are mine... I know more FreeBSD hosts than that...

Greetings,

Miguel Ramos
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

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- --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 22:38:53 +0100 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [...]
>> Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of
>> month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ...
>>
>
> Just out of curiosity, on what criteria do you clean up your list? Maybe
> you're cleaning it up too often, no?

Clean up our list?

> Clearly bsdstats is reaching stability. But consider that when you have a port
> update, you don't know if it was the program which was changed or just the
> installer.

I've tried to make any 'script changes' result in a version change, while 
'installer' changes are a PortRevision ... I just screwed that up by up'ng 
portrevision when I did the reporting speed up change to the script :(

> You have just commited another set of changes. I respect your decision of
> commiting the changes.
> On the other hand, I'm also not too keen on ports which require user
> intervention on install, because of batch installs and upgrades.

Actually, the Makefile was long ago extended to *not* be interactive on either 
BATCH or PATCH_BUILDING installs ... and, after the initial install, unless 
you've wipe'd out either your /etc/periodic.conf or /etc/rc.cofn files, will 
never (or should never) ask you any more questions ... the only time that 
*that* has ever changed was when I added the interactive 'do you want to enable 
in /etc/rc.conf?' to the installer ...

We have tried to cover *most* concerns that ppl have brought up ...

> I mean, we all have to do it for such basic things such as xdm or linux
> compatibility. If every FreeBSD user is "required" to do such configuration
> changes for those basic ports, why not for bsdstats?

There are actually other ports that are interactive in nature, and more often 
then bsdstats ... install postfix sometime, and then upgrade it?  Every time 
you upgrade it, it will ask you if you want to enable it ...


> When we, users, see a port changing, we do not know if it is only the install
> which changed or the program behaviour which changed.
> Certainly the install has changed behaviour, and that is troublesome for
> portupgrades done in batch.

Why?  There has only been one time where a change should have affected 
portupgrade, and that was when we added the /etc/rc.conf interactive ... being 
that, it *should* be totally transparent ...

> Thank you very much, and I certainly don't want to dictate the behaviour
> of bsdstats or its pkg-install script. It was just a complaint, because the
> idea is excellent but it did annoy me a little bit at some particular times.
> It will still annoy me a little bit because of the yes/no in pkg-install;
> maybe its me who should be more criterious before doing my portupgrades...

There are only two times it should *ever* have prompted ppl ... on initial 
*manual* install, and, if they installed before the /etc/rc.conf changes, on a 
portupgrade after that ... beyond that, it should be more transparent then 
installing postfix ...

If you do find a condition where you are being 'held up' on a portupgrade, do 
please let me know, as it shouldn't happen ...

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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

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These are all on the TODO ... our 'webmaster' went and decided to get married, 
so has had limited time with getting the 'dead links' and more advanced 
reporting in place ... now that he's finally gotten past the honeymoon period, 
and once he gets things caught up again, he'll be diving back into getting the 
site finished ...

- --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 22:45:03 +0100 Gerard van Essen 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just a side note:
>
> When you click on "platform" or "trends" you get an "URL not found" error.
>
> Suggestion:
> It would be nice to see data from previous months on the website as well.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gerard
> FreeBSD - Reliable, Flexible and Secure 
>
>
> On 10/16/07, Chad Perrin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:38:49AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> >
>> > not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if*
>> it is
>> > run with the
>> > - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh,
>> as well
>> > as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the
>> Operating
>> > System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ...
>> >
>> > The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of
>> monthly
>> > ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as
>> devices/ports
>> > were the ones that took alot report in ...
>>
>> Thanks much.  I appreciate the effort.
>>
>> --
>> CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
>> MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when
>> it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production."
>> ___
>> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list
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>>
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Gerard van Essen]

Just a side note:

When you click on "platform" or "trends" you get an "URL not found" error.

Suggestion:
It would be nice to see data from previous months on the website as well.

Thanks

Gerard
FreeBSD - Reliable, Flexible and Secure 


On 10/16/07, Chad Perrin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:38:49AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if*
> it is
> > run with the
> > - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh,
> as well
> > as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the
> Operating
> > System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ...
> >
> > The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of
> monthly
> > ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as
> devices/ports
> > were the ones that took alot report in ...
>
> Thanks much.  I appreciate the effort.
>
> --
> CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
> MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when
> it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production."
> ___
> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "
>
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Chad Perrin]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 10:38:53PM +0100, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote:
> 
> On the other hand, I'm also not too keen on ports which require user
> intervention on install, because of batch installs and upgrades.
> Maybe that is not so crucial to a port like bsdstats, but still, wouldn't it
> just be better to let the user go add bsdstats_enable to rc.conf?
> 
> I mean, we all have to do it for such basic things such as xdm or linux
> compatibility. If every FreeBSD user is "required" to do such configuration
> changes for those basic ports, why not for bsdstats?

Actually, I think a good solution for purposes batch installs and other
situations where you want to minimize user interaction might be to insert
a commented line in rc.conf.  Of course, I imagine someone will disagree
that scattering commented lines all over rc.conf is a good idea.

Another option that might make sense would be to provide a post-install
informational file that collects information related to post installation
options for all ports/packages when they're added to the system (not just
when added to ports).  Such a resource would also help people learn
something about ports they're installing for the first time, or changes
to the ports.  On the other hand, it might require a little more work on
the part of port maintainers.

-- 
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when
it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production."
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos]

> From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[...]
> Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of 
> month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ...
>

Just out of curiosity, on what criteria do you clean up your list? Maybe you're
cleaning it up too often, no?


> > I think it's because the bsdstats script is becoming a bit of a pain...
> > - The script keeps being changed and updated...
>
> Pardon?  I have very rarely changed it ... I committed a change on Aug 29th 
> to 
> fix a problem with install.sh generating an error, and the last commit before 
> that was on April 30th to clean up a bunch of portlint warnings ... prior to 
> that, it was modified Dec 9th ... so there is about 4 months between updates 
> ...


Yes, that is true. My memory deceived me. I still had the troubled initial
period of Aug to Dec, 2006 in my memory.

Clearly bsdstats is reaching stability. But consider that when you have a port
update, you don't know if it was the program which was changed or just the 
installer.

You have just commited another set of changes. I respect your decision of
commiting the changes.
On the other hand, I'm also not too keen on ports which require user
intervention on install, because of batch installs and upgrades.
Maybe that is not so crucial to a port like bsdstats, but still, wouldn't it
just be better to let the user go add bsdstats_enable to rc.conf?

I mean, we all have to do it for such basic things such as xdm or linux
compatibility. If every FreeBSD user is "required" to do such configuration
changes for those basic ports, why not for bsdstats?

Now, imagine you would agree with me, and went on changing pkg-install...
again...


>  ... we had several ppl reporting issues where they were using it on 
> desktop's 
> where the desktop was shut down over night, and would therefore *never* get 
> reported ...  if you are running a server, by all means, disable it in 
> /etc/rc.conf ...

I understand that it is good to have it optionally on rc.conf.


> Oddly enough, when I did add the /etc/rc.conf option, it was asking if you 
> wanted to enable it there or not ... now that you point it out, am looking 
> into 
> it, since it was meant to be optional ... in fact, will add a note to the 
> question that states that enabling in /etc/rc.conf is meant for 
> desktop/laptops 
> that aren't necessarily 'always on', not for servers that are ... thanks for 
> pointing this one out, I didn't realize ...

I saw you just corrected it.


> > While a lot of us understands the interest of this, and even takes the time 
> > to
> > take a look at how it's done, we also don't have the time to keep peting it
> > every time it changes behaviour. The first reaction might be uninstall the
> > port.
>
> Changing behaviour?  Other then cleaning up some port code itself, and adding 
> the /etc/rc.conf (which only affects things the first time installed), there 
> has been no change in behaviour since ... December, from what I can tell, and 
> the only change of behaviour then was to actually report non-configured 
> devices 
> that pciconf files ... so not 100% certain what you are talking about 
> concerning 'changing behavioiur' ...

When we, users, see a port changing, we do not know if it is only the install
which changed or the program behaviour which changed.
Certainly the install has changed behaviour, and that is troublesome for
portupgrades done in batch.


Thank you very much, and I certainly don't want to dictate the behaviour
of bsdstats or its pkg-install script. It was just a complaint, because the idea
is excellent but it did annoy me a little bit at some particular times. It will
still annoy me a little bit because of the yes/no in pkg-install; maybe its me 
who
should be more criterious before doing my portupgrades...

--
Miguel Ramos
Lisboa, Portugal
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Chad Perrin]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:38:49AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if* it is 
> run with the
> - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh, as 
> well 
> as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the 
> Operating 
> System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ...
> 
> The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of monthly 
> ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as devices/ports 
> were the ones that took alot report in ...

Thanks much.  I appreciate the effort.

-- 
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when
it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production."
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



- --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 00:32:03 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> - --On Friday, October 05, 2007 13:08:54 -0600 Chad Perrin
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote:
>
>> I don't have any problem with running on start-up, or daily, or whatever
>> (as long as it's not in constant communication with the mothership,
>> sucking up bandwidth and system resources).  I just wish that, succeed or
>> fail, it wasn't so damned slow.  I don't need my bootup time or my
>> networking restart time slowed down by several minutes.
>
> I'll look into what i can do to speed things up ... see if I can shave some
> time off of the updates itself ...

not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if* it is 
run with the
- -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh, as 
well 
as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the Operating 
System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ...

The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of monthly 
... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as devices/ports 
were the ones that took alot report in ...

- 
Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yahoo . yscrappy   Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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- --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 00:28:55 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> Oddly enough, when I did add the /etc/rc.conf option, it was asking if you
> wanted to enable it there or not ... now that you point it out, am looking
> into  it, since it was meant to be optional ... in fact, will add a note to
> the  question that states that enabling in /etc/rc.conf is meant for
> desktop/laptops  that aren't necessarily 'always on', not for servers that
> are ... thanks for  pointing this one out, I didn't realize ...

I'm not sure why we merged it that 'if enabled in periodic.conf, also enable in 
/etc/rc.conf', but I've pulled that back out and made it a seperate optional, 
with a message explaining that that feature is meant for desktop/laptop 
environments, where they aren't 'always on', especially when monthly runs ...


- 
Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



- --On Friday, October 05, 2007 13:08:54 -0600 Chad Perrin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> I don't have any problem with running on start-up, or daily, or whatever
> (as long as it's not in constant communication with the mothership,
> sucking up bandwidth and system resources).  I just wish that, succeed or
> fail, it wasn't so damned slow.  I don't need my bootup time or my
> networking restart time slowed down by several minutes.

I'll look into what i can do to speed things up ... see if I can shave some 
time off of the updates itself ...

- 
Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Marc G. Fournier]

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- --On Friday, October 05, 2007 13:05:56 +0100 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [...]
>> Percentage Change in September from August:
>>
>>Overall   +12.8%
> [...]
>>FreeBSD   - 7.4%  (5008 hosts)
>
> Numbers have gone down as to what FreeBSD is concerned.

Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of 
month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ...

> I think it's because the bsdstats script is becoming a bit of a pain...
> - The script keeps being changed and updated...

Pardon?  I have very rarely changed it ... I committed a change on Aug 29th to 
fix a problem with install.sh generating an error, and the last commit before 
that was on April 30th to clean up a bunch of portlint warnings ... prior to 
that, it was modified Dec 9th ... so there is about 4 months between updates 
...

> - The script now wants to run on startup, which is a pain. Why? What was wrong
> with monthly reports? Why the haste? In my case it runs before an HTTP proxy
> is up and running... I had to disable it. Why on earth enabled by default?
> That's not what most ports do... The FreeBSD user is usually expected to
> manually enable the port after installing it.

 ... we had several ppl reporting issues where they were using it on desktop's 
where the desktop was shut down over night, and would therefore *never* get 
reported ...  if you are running a server, by all means, disable it in 
/etc/rc.conf ...

Oddly enough, when I did add the /etc/rc.conf option, it was asking if you 
wanted to enable it there or not ... now that you point it out, am looking into 
it, since it was meant to be optional ... in fact, will add a note to the 
question that states that enabling in /etc/rc.conf is meant for desktop/laptops 
that aren't necessarily 'always on', not for servers that are ... thanks for 
pointing this one out, I didn't realize ...

> While a lot of us understands the interest of this, and even takes the time to
> take a look at how it's done, we also don't have the time to keep peting it
> every time it changes behaviour. The first reaction might be uninstall the
> port.

Changing behaviour?  Other then cleaning up some port code itself, and adding 
the /etc/rc.conf (which only affects things the first time installed), there 
has been no change in behaviour since ... December, from what I can tell, and 
the only change of behaviour then was to actually report non-configured devices 
that pciconf files ... so not 100% certain what you are talking about 
concerning 'changing behavioiur' ...

> Also, I think the enabled by default thing is a very bad idea. Consider when
> you're deploying a BSD in an enterprise environment; not everybody might
> understand imediatly that it would be beneficial to have that thing reporting
> automatically and by default...

I don't believe anyone has advocated for 'enabled by default' in FreeBSD ... 
one of these days it would be nice if it was an install option in sysinstall, 
but that would again be purely opt-in, not on by default ...

- 
Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Chad Perrin]

On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 01:05:56PM +0100, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote:
> > From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [...]
> > Percentage Change in September from August:
> >
> >Overall   +12.8%
> [...]
> >FreeBSD   - 7.4%  (5008 hosts)
> 
> Numbers have gone down as to what FreeBSD is concerned.
> I think it's because the bsdstats script is becoming a bit of a pain...
> - The script keeps being changed and updated...
> - The script now wants to run on startup, which is a pain. Why? What was wrong
> with monthly reports? Why the haste? In my case it runs before an HTTP proxy 
> is
> up and running... I had to disable it. Why on earth enabled by default? That's
> not what most ports do... The FreeBSD user is usually expected to manually
> enable the port after installing it.
> - Only now I realised that it is still reporting monthly... Otherwise it would
> have been deactivated for my machine.

I don't have any problem with running on start-up, or daily, or whatever
(as long as it's not in constant communication with the mothership,
sucking up bandwidth and system resources).  I just wish that, succeed or
fail, it wasn't so damned slow.  I don't need my bootup time or my
networking restart time slowed down by several minutes.

-- 
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
Leon Festinger: "A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him
you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts and figures and he questions
your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point."
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Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In

[Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos]

> From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[...]
> Percentage Change in September from August:
>
>Overall   +12.8%
[...]
>FreeBSD   - 7.4%  (5008 hosts)

Numbers have gone down as to what FreeBSD is concerned.
I think it's because the bsdstats script is becoming a bit of a pain...
- The script keeps being changed and updated...
- The script now wants to run on startup, which is a pain. Why? What was wrong
with monthly reports? Why the haste? In my case it runs before an HTTP proxy is
up and running... I had to disable it. Why on earth enabled by default? That's
not what most ports do... The FreeBSD user is usually expected to manually
enable the port after installing it.
- Only now I realised that it is still reporting monthly... Otherwise it would
have been deactivated for my machine.

While a lot of us understands the interest of this, and even takes the time to
take a look at how it's done, we also don't have the time to keep peting it
every time it changes behaviour. The first reaction might be uninstall the port.

Also, I think the enabled by default thing is a very bad idea. Consider when
you're deploying a BSD in an enterprise environment; not everybody might
understand imediatly that it would be beneficial to have that thing reporting
automatically and by default...

Greetings,

Miguel

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