Re: Why is csh tcsh? This can be a bad thing...
Peter Wemm wrote: Jordan Hubbard wrote: Because of certain differences, it cannot be used wholesale as a replacement for csh. Then please enumerate them so that they can be given due attention. This is exactly the sort of detailed feedback that was requested when we first raised the issue of switching over, and nobody could come up with any concrete differences that would cause harm, so the deed was done. We switched for several reasons: 1: csh script interface sucks 2: csh user interface sucks 3: tcsh user interface is one of the better ones. csh is not a serious scripting language and hardly anybody ever uses it as one in scripts that have sufficient complexity to notice the difference. As far as user interfaces go, tcsh is as close to a superset as you can get. That was a step up for the majority of users who actually use it and it is still close enough that built-in finger knowledge works as expected. We made genuine csh available as a port in case somebody *has* to have it for actual scripting that was impossible to tweak to run under tcsh. (see ports/shells/44bsd-csh). Cheers, -Peter Okay, at least this is the closest I've come to hearing an explaination... I was never arguing the utility of tcsh as an interactive shell, hell, like I said, I've ran it since it first appeared on comp.sources.unix.[misc?] many years ago, and use it as my shell of choice on any platform. My question was on the need to turn it into csh, when just including it in the /bin directory as tcsh was enough. I have been reading up on some of the old well-known diffs, and apparently many HAVE been fixed over the years, but as the gentleman who explained his experience earlier in this thread will attest, not all are fixed. For 4.4, the point is moot, if this is the way it is, this is the way it will ship [next week?]... For 5.0, I maybe the black sheep in saying this, but I'd like to see /bin/csh be the real thing for 5.0. By all means, leave tcsh in /bin, but for the sake of backwards compatability, IMHO `ln /bin/tcsh /bin/csh` was a bad idea. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: diskcheckd is poo
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David W. Chapman Jr. writes: On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 04:14:24PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: If we want a surface scrubber, we ought to have a real one; it's also very, very bad in the laptop context (since it keeps waking your disks up). I have the shar of the port up at http://people.freebsd.org:~/dwcjr/diskcheckd.shar I believe. its already in the ports, I'm just awaiting a repo copy of the files from /usr/src/usr.sbin/diskcheckd into ports/sysutils/diskcheckd/files There are very good reason why serious disk systems like NetApp and IBM's boxes have a scrubber, and these reasons extend fully into machines with a 60GB disk which is only marginally accessed. I think diskcheckd should stay in the main system, but be turned off by default (at least until better heuristics for default operation has been devised.) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: another panic (mix ppp and usb to taste)
As I was trying to let the Palm Pilot connect to my desktop through usb using PPP, I tried to run /usr/sbin/ppp -quiet -direct -nat /dev/ugen0 FWIW, that should be: /usr/sbin/ppp -quiet -direct -nat /dev/ugen0 as ppp -direct needs to be able to write to descriptor 0 too. I'll leave Nick to comment on the USB side of things :*) [.] -- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.freebsd-services.com/brian@[uk.]FreeBSD.org Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! brian@[uk.]OpenBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Why is csh tcsh? This can be a bad thing...
On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:50:33AM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote: For 5.0, I maybe the black sheep in saying this, but I'd like to see /bin/csh be the real thing for 5.0. By all means, leave tcsh in /bin, but for the sake of backwards compatability, IMHO `ln /bin/tcsh /bin/csh` was a bad idea. Frankly, this isn't going to happen. We went through all this months ago: please just accept the will of the community and drop the matter. Kris PGP signature
Re: Why is csh tcsh? This can be a bad thing...
Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:10:53PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: So yes, there's a difference. But, on the flip side, I think that the fact that it's been this long without anybody screaming majorly (after the initial shakedown, of course) kinda sums it up. Probably because it's just too late. During the initial discussion, the voices pro and contra were about 50:50 (at least that was my impression), and finally the pro ones succeeded, probably because they had more weight (this is not a democracy anyway). After the change was done and committed, chances to revert it were even smaller. I'm well aware that this discussion now is probably very useless. I'd like to write down my concerns anyway, just to show that there _is_ indeed anybody screaming. If you don't want to read my nagging, stop reading now. :-) I'm not so much opposed to having tcsh in the base, and even in /bin (I'm not using it anyway). Sure, there is the bloat argument, but we also have perl in the base, which is much more of a bloat. (Perl is another story.) _But_ my vote would be for still having a real csh in /bin, additionally. (And don't tell me that tcsh is a real csh -- it's not, see below.) Those who voted for replacing csh with tcsh probably haven't really used csh as their login shell recently, otherwise they would have noticed that it is not a full replacement. There are differences in defaults, yes, but are there differences which can't be fixed by setting options? That's what's being asked. I think that a /bin/csh should behave like a traditional /bin/csh by default already, without having to go through the (large!) tcsh manpage in search for the right options. FWIW, a few csh users have complained to me that the user interface behaves completely different, e.g. filename completion, entering of tabs, certain types of history expansions (!2foo) etc., and they haven't been able to make it behave like a real csh using tcsh options. (If someone knows, for example, how to make it accept a single Esc for filename completion without a delay, please let me know.) I will probably just install the 4.4BSD csh over /bin/csh to get rid of those complaints. I for myself don't really care much, I don't use csh or tcsh (anymore). In singleuser mode I definitely prefer /bin/sh over those nowadays. But I think that users who want a real (i.e. traditional) csh should be able to get one, without having to get used to a user interface that's different from all other systems (Solaris, Tru64, ...). Sure, I could install it as a port (after I have found out that such a port exists -- it's not documented anywhere), but installing or copying the port into /bin isn't exactly a clean solution. Not having a real /bin/csh on a BSD system is like removing /usr/games. Sacrilege. ;-) Just my 2 Euro Cents. Regards Oliver PS: Should we redirect this to -chat? Or perhaps better yet, to private mail. (No Reply-To set, so it's your decision, but please let me know because I'm not normally looking at the -chat folder.) -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co KG, Oettingenstr. 2, 80538 München Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream (E. A. Poe) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: unknown PNP hardware
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] David W. Chapman Jr. writes: : I'm running -current as of an hour ago. I've gotten this since I've : been running 4.2-stable, any ideas on how I can find out what it : belongs to? : : unknown: PNP0303 can't assign resources : unknown: PNP0501 can't assign resources : unknown: PNP0501 can't assign resources : unknown: PNP0401 can't assign resources : unknown: PNP0700 can't assign resources : unknown: PNP0f13 can't assign resources Don't worry about these. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
-current buildworld broken
Hello. cc -O -pipe -march=pentiumpro -I. -DDISASSEMBLER -DNO_X -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i38 6/usr/include -c /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c: In function `init_mapfile': /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1124: `MAP_INHERIT' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1124: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1124: for each function it appears in.) /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c: In function `map_page': /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1172: `MAP_INHERIT' undeclared (first use in this function) *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/usr.bin. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. -- Rgdz,/\ Sergey Osokin aka oZZ, \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN [EMAIL PROTECTED]X AGAINST HTML MAIL http://freebsd.org.ru/~osa/ / \ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: -current buildworld broken
:Hello. :cc -O -pipe -march=pentiumpro -I. -DDISASSEMBLER -DNO_X -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i38 :6/usr/include -c /usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c :/usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c: In function `init_mapfile': :/usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1124: `MAP_INHERIT' undeclared (first use in this :function) :/usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1124: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only : once :/usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1124: for each function it appears in.) :/usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c: In function `map_page': :/usr/src/usr.bin/doscmd/ems.c:1172: `MAP_INHERIT' undeclared (first use in this :function) :*** Error code 1 Ha! Hillarious. Ok, I'll fix it. As far as I can tell the use of MAP_INHERIT there is completely bogus. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
APM and PCM compatibility.....
All: On one of my machines at work I run current and had been without audio until I found a posting where a user noted that enabling APM in the kernel broke audio Heh... I disabled apm/pmtimer and my PCM device works great While I don't really care about APM on my machine - I wanted to note this to the list. Possibly this is a BIOS rev issue ??? The quick facts I can supply are: FreeBSD chimera.confluentasp.com 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #1: Fri Aug 24 11:14:29 EDT 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/current/obj/usr/current /src/sys/chimera i386 (mikej@chimera) /home/staff/mikej$ dmesg | grep pcm pcm0: VIA VT82C686A port 0xe000-0xe003,0xdc00-0xdcff irq 10 at device 7.5 on p ci0 (mikej@chimera) /home/staff/mikej$ cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm) Installed devices: pcm0: VIA VT82C686A at io 0xdc00 irq 10 (1p/1r/0v channels duplex default) (mikej@chimera) /home/staff/mikej$ --mikej Michael Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
diskcheckd port
I'm almost finished with the port for diskcheckd. I'm just waiting on a repo copy of the config file I forgot to include in my repo request. When it is time to change it over from src to ports in modules, I'd appreciate some help since I haven't made any src commits before. Thanks. -- David W. Chapman Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Raintree Network Services, Inc. www.inethouston.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD Committer www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
ports diskcheckd patch
After the repo copy of the diskcheckd.conf gets done this patch
should be the last one I need to make ports/sysutils/diskcheckd to
work properly. Any comments/problems would be appreciated. I would
especially appreciate some patches to pkg-descr for a more detailed
description if possible.
Thanks.
--
David W. Chapman Jr.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Raintree Network Services, Inc. www.inethouston.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD Committer www.FreeBSD.org
Index: Makefile
===
RCS file: /home/ncvs/ports/sysutils/diskcheckd/Makefile,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -r1.1 Makefile
--- Makefile2001/08/24 14:33:09 1.1
+++ Makefile2001/08/25 20:13:23
@@ -20,12 +20,21 @@
NO_WRKSUBDIR= yes
+CFLAGS+= -D_PATH_CONF='\${PREFIX}/etc\'
+
+
+.include bsd.port.pre.mk
+
+.if ${OSVERSION} 50
+BROKEN=Only runs on 5.0 or higher (-current)
+.endif
+
do-extract:
@${MKDIR} ${WRKSRC}
@(cd ${FILESDIR} pax -r -w * ${WRKSRC})
-do-build:
- cd ${WRKSRC} ${CC} ${CFLAGS} -DCONFPATH=\${PREFIX}/etc\ -o diskcheckd
diskcheckd.c
+do-patch:
+ @${PERL} -pi.fbsd -e 's|/usr/sbin|${PREFIX}/sbin|g' ${WRKSRC}/Makefile
do-install:
${INSTALL_PROGRAM} ${WRKSRC}/diskcheckd ${PREFIX}/sbin
@@ -33,4 +42,4 @@
${INSTALL_SCRIPT} ${WRKSRC}/diskcheckd.sh ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d
${INSTALL_MAN} ${WRKSRC}/diskcheckd.8 ${PREFIX}/man/man8
-.include bsd.port.mk
+.include bsd.port.post.mk
Index: files/diskcheckd.c
===
RCS file: /home/ncvs/ports/sysutils/diskcheckd/files/diskcheckd.c,v
retrieving revision 1.4
diff -u -r1.4 diskcheckd.c
--- files/diskcheckd.c 2001/08/20 15:09:33 1.4
+++ files/diskcheckd.c 2001/08/25 20:13:23
@@ -47,7 +47,10 @@
#define DKTYPENAMES
#include sys/disklabel.h
-#define_PATH_CONF /etc/diskcheckd.conf
+#ifndef _PATH_CONF
+#define_PATH_CONF /usr/local/etc/diskcheckd.conf
+#endif
+
#define_PATH_SAVE _PATH_VARDBdiskcheckd.offsets
#defineREAD_SIZE (64 10)
KSE milestone-2
Diffs for KSE milestone 2 are at http://www.freebsd.org/~julian (about 1.8MB) Thanks to Matt Dillon who tracked down the last major instability. This is i386 only (some other diffs included but not working) This pushes the 'thread' pointer through nearly all of the kernel in preparation for architectural changes which will start soon. This is basically -current with a lot of housekeeping and parameter changes. People are invited to check this diff for logical problems. Particularly such things as: aaa(p) becoming aaa(td-td_proc) where td could be NULL, which would be a problem, where p being a NULL might have been OK. In particular kernel hackers are invited to check out diffs in their own areas of expertise looking for such logical problems. -- ++ __ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--x USA\ a very strange | ( OZ)\___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: KSE milestone-2
On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:37:24PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: Diffs for KSE milestone 2 are at http://www.freebsd.org/~julian (about 1.8MB) Thanks to Matt Dillon who tracked down the last major instability. This is i386 only (some other diffs included but not working) This pushes the 'thread' pointer through nearly all of the kernel in preparation for architectural changes which will start soon. This is basically -current with a lot of housekeeping and parameter changes. Do you plan to commit this chunk first, seeing as how it may be stable enough at this point? [...] In particular kernel hackers are invited to check out diffs in their own areas of expertise looking for such logical problems. -- ++ __ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--x USA\ a very strange | ( OZ)\___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v -- Bosko Milekic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: KSE milestone-2
Bosko Milekic wrote: On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:37:24PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: Diffs for KSE milestone 2 are at http://www.freebsd.org/~julian (about 1.8MB) Thanks to Matt Dillon who tracked down the last major instability. [...] Do you plan to commit this chunk first, seeing as how it may be stable enough at this point? I'd like to, but it is something that we as a group have to discuss. -- Bosko Milekic [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ++ __ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--x USA\ a very strange | ( OZ)\___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: options HZ [MFC for pr=28143]
It should be a tunable, not a compile-time option. David Hill wrote: Hello - Could someone please document options HZ into LINT?. I found it whil e reading the dummynet(4) manpage. Thanks - David To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message this was already submitted as a PR (http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=28143) maybe time to call for an MFC ? [CC added] -- Thierry Herbelot To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: unknown PNP hardware
Going off on a slight tangent, I wrote a perl script months ago that parsed the output of dmesg, and tried to determine which IRQs were used, and for what. One of the side-effects of this script is that it also tried to identify unknown PCI devices (but *only* if an IRQ is used), using an (old) hard-coded table originally obtained from: http://www.yourvote.com/pci/pcidev.csv You can get the script from: ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/darrylo/freebsd/scanirq.gz It's written for 4.X, but might work for -current (you'll have to disable the checks for 4.X, at the very least). You use it like this: dmesg | scanirq It's completely obsoleted by devinfo and pciconf's '-v' flag. Sorry. 8) -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: exec issue in tcsh?
* Jim Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010823 01:33] wrote: i noticed this after a build from -current of about 24 hours ago: due to problems getting kde-2.2 to compile under -current, I am currently using windowmaker and doing a `exec startx /dev/null` to get into X without leaving a console shell open... Wow. Why not use xdm? 8) -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: options HZ [MFC for pr=28143]
On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Mike Smith wrote: It should be a tunable, not a compile-time option. David Hill wrote: Hello - Could someone please document options HZ into LINT?. I found it whil e reading the dummynet(4) manpage. It must remain a compile-time option for those of us who don't believe in tunables. Notes: - Making HZ non-constant (almost everything uses `hz' instead of HZ) mainly pessimizes time-critical code that computes hz/CONST, except: - on alphas, the HZ option has no effect. The initial value of hz = HZ is not used except to compute wrong values for `tick' and `tickadj' (`tick' is fixed up later but `tickadj' remains wrong). `hz' is initialized to hwprb-rpb_intr_freq 12 in alpha/machdep.c. So, hz needs to be non-constant and the HZ option and tunables just get in the way for alphas and for other arches where the hardclock frequency is not programmable. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
