Re: vt and keyboard accents
On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 10:16 AM Hans Petter Selasky
wrote:
> On 1/29/23 01:54, Yuri wrote:
> > Looking into an issue with accents input for vt and cz (so
> > /usr/share/vt/keymaps/cz.kbd) keyboard where some of the accents are
> > working and other result weird unrelated characters output.
> >
> > Checking kbdcontrol -d output, there is an obvious difference with
> > keymap contents -- all mappings are trimmed down to 1 byte after reading:
> >
> > kbdcontrol:
> >dacu 180 ( 180 180 ) ( 'S' 'Z' ) ( 'Z' 'y' ) ( 's' '[' )
> > ( 'z' 'z' ) ( 'R' 'T' ) ( 'A' 193 ) ( 'L' '9' )
> > ( 'C' 006 ) ( 'E' 201 ) ( 'I' 205 ) ( 'N' 'C' )
> > ( 'O' 211 ) ( 'U' 218 ) ( 'Y' 221 ) ( 'r' 'U' )
> > ( 'a' 225 ) ( 'l' ':' ) ( 'c' 007 ) ( 'e' 233 )
> > ( 'i' 237 ) ( 'n' 'D' ) ( 'o' 243 ) ( 'u' 250 )
> > ( 'y' 253 )
> >
> > keymap:
> >dacu 0xb4( 0xb4 0xb4) ( 'S'0x015a ) ( 'Z'0x0179 )
> > ( 's'0x015b )
> > ( 'z'0x017a ) ( 'R'0x0154 ) ( 'A'0xc1)
> > ( 'L'0x0139 )
> > ( 'C'0x0106 ) ( 'E'0xc9) ( 'I'0xcd)
> > ( 'N'0x0143 )
> > ( 'O'0xd3) ( 'U'0xda) ( 'Y'0xdd)
> > ( 'r'0x0155 )
> > ( 'a'0xe1) ( 'l'0x013a ) ( 'c'0x0107 )
> > ( 'e'0xe9)
> > ( 'i'0xed) ( 'n'0x0144 ) ( 'o'0xf3)
> > ( 'u'0xfa)
> > ( 'y'0xfd)
> >
> > Source of the problem is the following definition in sys/sys/kbio.h:
> >
> > struct acc_t {
> > u_char accchar;
> > u_char map[NUM_ACCENTCHARS][2];
> > };
> >
> > While the keymaps were converted to have the unicode characters for vt
> > in the commit below, the array to store them (map) was missed, or was
> > there a reason for this?
> >
> > ---
> > commit 7ba08f814546ece02e0193edc12cf6eb4d5cb8d4
> > Author: Stefan Eßer
> > Date: Sun Aug 17 19:54:21 2014 +
> >
> > Attempt at converting the SYSCONS keymaps to Unicode for use with
> > NEWCONS.
> > I have spent many hours comparing source and destination formats,
> > and hope
> > to have caught the most severe conversion errors.
> > ---
> >
> > I have tried the following patch and it allows me to enter all accents
> > documented in the keymap, though I must admit I'm not sure it does not
> > have hidden issues:
> >
> > diff --git a/sys/sys/kbio.h b/sys/sys/kbio.h
> > index 7f17bda76c5..fffeb63e226 100644
> > --- a/sys/sys/kbio.h
> > +++ b/sys/sys/kbio.h
> > @@ -200,7 +200,7 @@ typedef struct okeymap okeymap_t;
> >
> > struct acc_t {
> > u_char accchar;
> > - u_char map[NUM_ACCENTCHARS][2];
> > + int map[NUM_ACCENTCHARS][2];
> > };
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> Using "int" for unicode characters is probably good for now. Your patch
> looks good, but please also consider the "umlaut" case while at it
> (multiple characters that become one)!
>
> --HPS
>
>
I am not an expert on UNICODE .
When character sets are considered , a homogeneous definition for all of
the FreeBSD system would be more useful .
There are mainly three types of Unicode : UTF-8 , UTF-16 , and UTF-32 where
numbers are bit sizes of the characters .
Some pages about Unicode where they have many linked sub pages :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unicode
Category:Unicode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode
Unicode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Unicode_encodings
Comparison of Unicode encodings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_binary_codes
List of binary codes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_information_system_character_sets
List of information system character sets
and other related pages ...
With my best wishes for all .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: Problem in userland
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 6:56 PM Filippo Moretti wrote: > > Thank you for your prompt answer.I tried your suggestion but did not > work:I get the same error.Please note however that I have not linux > emulation enabled as I run no linux program:Firefox was installed from > ports and it is the native freebsd one. > I will switch to another browser if needed. > Filippo > On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 04:22:49 PM GMT+1, Warner Losh < > i...@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:42 AM Filippo Moretti > wrote: > > Good morning, >I have two computers running CURRENT when launching > firefox I get the following error: > > [filippo@ROXY ~]$ firefox > Crash Annotation GraphicsCriticalError: |[0][GFX1-]: glxtest: cannot > access /sys/bus/pci (t=3.60308) [GFX1-]: glxtest: cannot access /sys/bus/pci > Crash Annotation GraphicsCriticalError: |[0][GFX1-]: glxtest: cannot > access /sys/bus/pci (t=3.60308) |[1][GFX1-]: glxtest: VA-API test failed: > failed to initialise VAAPI connection. (t=4.09897) [GFX1-]: glxtest: VA-API > test failed: failed to initialise VAAPI connection. > > It seems that you are running firefox from a command line . If there is not a graphical underlayer , is it possible to run firefox ? The reason for the above question is due to the firefox display structure which is a graphical one , not a text one . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > [filippo@ROXY ~]$ uname -a > FreeBSD ROXY 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > main-n259682-67e628b7a643: Wed Dec 14 22:56:22 CET 2022 > root@ROXY:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/ROXY > amd64 > > On this computer firefox works in spite of the Crash Annotation. > > On the other hand on this computer: > [filippo@ROXY ~]$ less problem > FreeBSD STING 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #1 > main-n259975-4ffe60e6833e: Sun Jan 8 17:40:19 CET 2023 > root@STING:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/STING > amd64 > > firefox doen't work at all. > I did check and there is no /sys/bus/pci and there is no > /usr/src/sys/bus/pci. > > > Not sure why firefox is accessing a linux-specific file. FreeBSD does > emulate some of it, but only with linsysfs mounted. Generally only linux > binaries need it. > >mount -t linsysfs linsys /compat/linux/sys > > might be useful to see if that's missing? > > Warner >
Re: domain names and internationalization?
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 11:27 PM Rick Macklem wrote: > Hi, > > Recently there has been discussion on the NFSv4 IETF working > group email list w.r.t. internationalization for the domain name > it uses for users/groups. > > Right now, I am pretty sure the FreeBSD nfsuserd(8) only works > for ascii domain names, but... > > I am hoping someone knows what DNS does in this area (the > working group list uses terms like umlaut, which I have never > even heard of;-). > > I know essentially nothing about internationalization, so any hints > will be appreciated. > > Thanks, rick > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization Internationalization and localization https://www.google.com/search?q=internationalization+%28i18n%29=ALiCzsbsXi8Z_tScj_8BZPTxNfpQvwPEYw%3A1663641967630=bykpY8iJJpeBxc8PjpCF8AY=internationalization_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIHCAAQsAMQQzIHCAAQsAMQQ0oECEEYAEoECEYYAFAAWABgr11oAXABeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQDIAQrAAQE=gws-wiz internationalization (i18n) With my best wishes for all . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: limits.conf/stacksize doesn't seem to work?
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 1:32 AM Mark Johnston wrote: > On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 05:26:09PM -0500, Larry Rosenman wrote: > > On 07/15/2022 5:24 pm, Mark Johnston wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 05:21:27PM -0500, Larry Rosenman wrote: > > >> On 07/15/2022 5:18 pm, Mark Johnston wrote: > > >> > On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 05:04:18PM -0500, Larry Rosenman wrote: > > >> >> I'm using the following kernel config: > > >> >> [...] > > >> >> and the following login.conf: > > >> >> [...] > > >> >> bacula_dir:\ > > >> >> :stacksize-max=68719476736:\ > > >> >> :stacksize-cur=68719476736:\ > > >> >> :tc=daemon: > > >> >> [...] > > >> >> I've updated my (ler) password entry to reference bacula_dir: > > >> >> ler::1001:1001:bacula_dir:0:0:Larry > > >> >> Rosenman:/home/ler:/usr/local/bin/zsh > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> when I ssh in, the stacklimit is still: > > >> >> ❯ ulimit -H -s > > >> >> 2097152 > > >> > > > >> > What is the value of the kern.maxssiz sysctl on this system? > > >> > > > >> >> ler in borg in sys/amd64/conf on > ler/freebsd-main-changes:main on > > >> >> ☁️ (us-east-1) > > >> >> ❯ ulimit -S -s > > >> >> 2097152 > > >> >> > > >> >> ler in borg in sys/amd64/conf on > ler/freebsd-main-changes:main on > > >> >> ☁️ (us-east-1) > > >> >> ❯ > > >> >> > > >> >> Where does this number come from? What am I missing here? > > >> > > > >> > The stack limit cannot be set to an arbitrarily large number. It > will > > >> > silently be clamped to maxssiz. > > >> > > >> ❯ sysctl kern.maxssiz > > >> kern.maxssiz: 2147483648 > > > > > > Then what you're seeing is expected. The kernel is clamping the stack > > > segment limit to 2GB. > > > > I assume this is the default for MAXSSIZ? and if I change that in the > > kernel config, it will > > allow bigger? Where is this default defined? > > The default value is platform dependent. On amd64 it's 512MB, so I'm > not sure where your value is coming from. --- > It's defined in a header. > You can set it in the kernel configuration, or as a tunable or sysctl. > > --- My opinion is that , there is some one ( or more ) constant(s) defined elsewhere , because setting MAXSSIZ is NOT WORKING when it is larger than the "unknown" default value ... With my best wishes for all , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: Cross-compile worked, cross-install not so much ...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 10:26 PM Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > Hi, > > > Am 25.04.2022 um 21:18 schrieb Brooks Davis : > > Cross install is not supported. As you have seen, certain tools are > > bootstrapped on the build host and used during the install process. You > > might be able to get away with nuking > > /usr/obj/usr/src/arm64.aarch64/tmp/legacy (or maybe tmp) and then > > running `make toolchain` to build native versions of those tools. > > that comes as a big surprise and disappointment. What is the point of > cross-compiling, then? > How to update a small slow embedded platform? > > You can cross compile a program and then use it on a related system . Please think this is a contribution . In that way , piece by piece you may construct another system . You are right : Being able to construct an installable system is a good idea . When it is not available as a whole , having a partial capability is a good step . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > I tried your suggestion - unfortunately no worky: > > cd /usr/src/tools/build; make DIRPRFX=tools/build/ > DESTDIR=/usr/obj/usr/src/arm64.aarch64/tmp/legacy host-symlinks > Linking host tools into /usr/obj/usr/src/arm64.aarch64/tmp/legacy/bin > cp: chflags: /usr/obj/usr/src/arm64.aarch64/tmp/legacy/bin/basename: > Operation not supported > *** Error code 1 > > So I will probably need to checkout and compile on the Pi. What are typical > build times on a CM3+? Plus I am going to wear down the builtin eMMC much > faster. > > Kind regards and thanks, > Patrick >
Re: USB Disk Stalls on -current
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 10:11 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:02 PM Sean Bruno wrote: > >> >> >> > >> > >> > So there's some tools you can use. For usb, there's usbdump that can >> > get you the USB transactions. I've not used it enough to give more >> details >> > here. This will let you know what's going on, and when, on the USB >> endpoint. >> > >> > You can also enable the CAM_IOSCHED stuff. This will allow you to get >> > latency >> > measurements for 'requests in the sim' which basically will tell you >> > what your >> > latency spread is for the drives. This will tell you if things are >> > getting caught >> > up in the USB layer, or after CAM's da driver completes the I/O request >> > (granted, that's almost certainly not happening, but it will help you >> > figure out >> > what's going on and put numbers to the oddities you are seeing). >> > >> > Also, make sure you have good cables. I've had lots of hicups over the >> > years from dodgy USB cables. Also make sure you have good, high quality >> > enclosures. Many from the USB2 time-period are sketchy at best and I >> > went through several at one point trying to find a good one. I'd be >> > tempted to >> > get USB 3 enclosures. I've had better luck with USB3 gear than USB2 gear >> > here, but you need a USB-3 controller to get USB-3 speeds which might >> not >> > be compatible with the NUC's built-in stuff (though my NUC has one USB3 >> > port, there's lots of different models). >> > >> > Usually, though, I see weirdness associated with dmesg messages from >> > usb, cam, etc when the hardware is on the sketch end. >> > >> > Warner >> >> I'm assuming that I have a fairly dodgy USB device, as the pauses seem >> to correspond to this from CAM being emitted: >> >> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 >> 00 36 69 02 6e 00 00 80 00 >> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB >> request completed with an error >> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command, >> 2 more tries remain >> >> >> Things resume after this is emitted, but there is a substantial >> (multiple minutes) pause here. I would assume that timeouts would fire >> much quicker. >> > > The default timeout is 60s. > > You can reduce that substantially by setting kern.cam.da.default_timeout > to a smaller level. Disk operations completed within 5s these days, > except spin ups. Heck, nearly all complete within 500ms. You > might try setting this value to maybe 3 or 5 or 10 to see if that helps the > hiccups without introducing extra retries when the load is heavy. The > smaller values give a faster recovery, but too small a number may result > in timeouts and errors under load. I think you need to set this as a > tuneable. > > Warner > Are your external disks "GREEN" , i.e. , "energy saver" kind . If the external disks are energy saver kind , they will start to sleep when they are not used for a while , and waking them up will take time which causes significant distress , because to use them requires waiting every such wake up . At that point another important trouble is slowness of USB external disks with respect to internal ( non-energy saver ) SATA disks . When response time is important , it is necessary to avoid such "GREEN" disks . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: USB Disk Stalls on -current
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 8:15 PM Sean Bruno wrote: > I'm doing something "gross" with ZFS & Plex on a little Intel NUC that I > have here at the house to provide me with a nice little NAS at home. > I'm using 2x USB2 external disks as the mirror. > > I noted that the two USB2 disks I'm using in a mirror seem to "stall" > from time to time and its not clear to me why. > > I'd like to poke further into the USB system but I'm not sure where I > should start to see if there is something amiss with the hardware (e.g. > the disks suck) or if FreeBSD is losing track of something during I/O > leading to a stall/timeout. > > I'm not seeing data loss or anything, I just note from time to time > during large file transfers that the clanking/grinding sound of the > spinning rust on my desk completely stops, the encoding of the video > files stops (so its waiting for a read to complete) and its gets much > quieter in my office. :-) > > sean > > I encountered such a case in Fedora Linux with an external 2.0 USB disk . When the external disk was connected to a 1.? USB port , the loading of operating system was terrifically slow or sometimes some parts normal . You may check your USB ports versions to ensure that they are conforming to each other . Board USB port may be 2.0 , but connected chassis USB port may be 1.? like in my chassis . When USB external disk is connected to the chassis USB 2.0 port , everything has become normal . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: atkbd_timeout() period?
On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:39 AM Warner Losh wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 10:42 PM Alexander Motin wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As I see, one of the most active threaded callouts on idle VMware VM and
>> some hardware is atkbd_timeout(), called 10 times per second. Plus it
>> is also one of few remaining non-MP-safe callouts. According to the
>> comment it seems to be only a workaround for some lost interrupts. That
>> makes me thing: is it really needed to run so often and so accurate, or
>> may be we could reduce it to 1-2 times per second? Or may be it can be
>> avoided somehow 20 years later?
>>
>
> Yea, we can likely just trash it and wait for people to complain about the
> keyboard being hung. I doubt we'll get any complaints because Xaccel 2.1
> was quite a long time ago... It is no longer relevant and the original
> conditions
> that caused the lost interrupts are likely long gone...
>
> And if they aren't, we'll get a reproducible test case to judge what the
> right workaround
> should be.
>
> Warner
>
If "10" in " atkbd_timeout(), called 10 times per second "
can be defined by a control variable ,
then
it may not be necessary to remove its call , and
polling rate may be set with respect to the suitable needs .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: Benchmarks: FreeBSD 13 vs. NetBSD 9.2 vs. OpenBSD 7 vs. DragonFlyBSD 6 vs. Linux
I can say that these "micro" benchmarks are not "so much" useful . When such comparisons are made based on "abstract" views , they DO NOT SHOW very much utility . Over previous years I am always stressing that proper comparisons would be based on a "specified" workload : Which distributions is more suitable for that "specified" work load ? Testing / benchmarking should be performed with respect to such criteria , for example , continuously "a day work necessary for a profession" , "a web server for a 'specified' task" , "a NFS server working for a 'specified' application" . Then comparisons of parts causing significant differences may generate useful improvement possibilities . When we see *BSD distributions as a single group , it is obvious that everyone has its own priorities to realize . The same is true also for Linux distributions . Without taking such differences into consideration , reaching some conclusions about them would only be a waste of time . With my best regards , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 1:40 PM Sami Halabi wrote: > Hi, > I see these claims over and over. > So I must ask. > Is there any tunibg guide(s) to make the default not conservative in a > regrding to several use cases like using as web server? How to Utilize gpu > maybe? > I know there are few network (aka routing / forwarding) guides.. but maybe > instead of that superior feeling "oh they are linuxish and knoe shit" maybe > better supply the tuning needed to get better results? > And I'm not talking to get an engineer to analyze the tests case.. > Maybe the linux defaults fit better for most use cases rather than being > conservative?? > > Just to be clear I almost not used linux and always freebsd for simplicity > usage.. but I must say it makes me wonder > > Sami > > בתאריך שבת, 11 בדצמ׳ 2021, 11:52, מאת beepc.ch : > > > > I am surprised to see that the BSD cluster today has much worse > > performance > > > than Linux. > > > What do you think of this? > > > > "Default" FreeBSD install setting are quite conservative. > > The Linux common distros are high tuned, those benchmark is in my > > opinion comparison of apples and oranges. > > > > Comparing "default" FreeBSD install with "default" Slackware install > > would be more interesting, because Slackware builds are at most vanilla. > > > > >
Re: Writing large build logs to NFS extremely slow?
On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 5:17 AM Felix Palmen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I use a -CURRENT bhyve vm for testing port builds with poudriere. As
> this vm is only running when needed, but I want to always have access to
> the build logs, I use NFS to mount /usr/local/poudriere/data/logs from
> the host.
>
> I noticed some few ports take ridiculously long to build while barely
> using any CPU time at all. On a closer look, that's all ports producing
> a lot of compiler (warning) output, e.g. gcc, gnutls, gtk2, …
>
> So I assume appending to a large file via NFS gets slower and slower. Is
> there any mount option I could try to fix this? Right now I only have
> `nolockd`, I also tried `noncontigwr` which didn't change anything.
>
> Thinking about alternatives to NFS, are there any news for client-side
> 9p virtfs? I found <https://github.com/swills/virtfs-9p-kmod> which
> still builds with a few minor adaptions, but trying to mount a 9p share
> freezes the machine.
>
> Would you suggest a different mailing list to ask?
>
> BR, Felix
>
> --
> Dipl.-Inform. Felix Palmen ,.//..
> {web} http://palmen-it.de {jabber} [see email] ,//palmen-it.de
> {pgp public key} http://palmen-it.de/pub.txt // """""""""""
> {pgp fingerprint} A891 3D55 5F2E 3A74 3965 B997 3EF2 8B0A BC02 DA2A
>
I have encountered such cases previously , but I am not able to remember
which parameters I have used to solve this problem ,
because I am not using the FreeBSD server now .
A similar problem occurs also in the Linux NFS server.
The problem is caused mainly by NFS definition parameters .
If you study NFS definition parameters one by one , I think you will be
able to find which one is effective .
My opinion is the one setting is "write directly to disk" , i.e. , "do not
use the cache" .
In the "write directly to disk" case , without completion of a write , the
computer in use is waiting for completion of previous write operation
before writing a new record . This is useful in case of abrupt program
terminations because every record is written into the disk file , by
consuming more time .
In the cache use case , time is not consumed much but the last written
records are lost in an abrupt program termination .
My understanding from your question is this .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: Move the Handbook into source tree
On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 7:51 PM Wolfram Schneider wrote: > We have 3 main repos: src, ports and doc. There are good reasons why > we are doing this, and it will not change in the near future. For > further questions and details, please ask on the freebsd-docs mailing > list. > > You are right that the documentation on our web site is mostly for > -current, the state of the art of the code base. If you need the > documentation for our supported releases please check our > Documentation Archive at > > https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/ > > and select your favourite release, e.g. > > the handbook for FreeBSD 13.0 > > https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/13.0-RELEASE/usr/local/share/doc/freebsd/en/books/handbook/ > > the handbook for FreeBSD 12.0 > > https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/12.0-RELEASE/usr/local/share/doc/freebsd/en/books/handbook/ > > -Wolfram > > On Tue, 7 Sept 2021 at 09:03, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > wrote: > > > > Dear All , > > > > in many of my messages to FreeBSD mailing lists I am mentioning the > > following view : > > > > "Please move the Handbook into source tree , and > >Maintain it with respect to current release without mixing sliding > > releases : If you do this , > >maintenance of a correct Handbook is IMPOSSIBLE because maintenance of > >associated IF statements about releases . > > " > > > > When we look at the following web pages , we see the following : > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi > > FreeBSD Manual Pages > > > > In the second box of "All sections" line , there are lines about all of > > the FreeBSD releases > > with many more other systems . > > > > In spite of this , in the following page : > > > > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ > > FreeBSD Handbook > > The FreeBSD Documentation Project > > > > > > " > > Abstract > > > > Welcome to FreeBSD! This handbook covers the installation and day to day > > use of > > FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE, FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE and FreeBSD 11.4-RELEASE. ... > > " > > > > A Handbook which ( for me , exactly , for the others , perhaps ) with > many > > errors ... > > > > > > I think that , it is NOT extraordinarily a difficult process to move the > > Handbook into source > > tree and maintaining it with respect to per release and insert into the > > above web page a part > > similar to the manual pages to display the requested Handbook with > respect > > to releases . > > In the present case , previous handbooks are lost , because of the > > difficulty of finding them . > > > > Thank you very much and my best wishes for you and humanity in these > > pandemic days ... > > > > > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > > > If you consider me , now at home there is 4.4BSD Lite ( Version 2.0 . Released Sept 1995 ) as a memorial . I could not find any previous release because it is likely that I left them in my university during my retirement to allow them to install them in university student laboratories . Trouble is NOT ME , because since 1970 I have been in the computing area ( starting my work since 1966 ) . My PhD thesis is "A multimedia information management system ( 1995 )" getting two vetoes ( both of them being virtual ) , one PhD sufficiency examination because of "This thesis proposition is in very much upper level with respect to a PhD thesis requirements" , another veto in thesis defense because "We need to mention that , although this thesis is excellent , it is impossible to complete it as a PhD thesis due to its very complicated difficulty level . If we do not mention this , later on , if anyone sees our "Thesis defense evaluation report" may say that "How such a jury does not recognize the difficulty level of this thesis and does not mention it ." If all of you say "YES" , I will mention this point and say "NO" , but if any one of you says "NO" , my vote is "YES" . " They asked : "How did you do it ?" ... 'based on my vast experience and theoretical works performed previously " ... ( my primary work area is "Theoretical Computing Sciences" ) "Why did you not use simulation ? " ... "for me , writing a simulator is much more difficult than writing its own implementation sufficient to show its feasibility and usability ." ... Then trouble is an unusable handbook due to many errors spreaded over it due to its SLIDING nature of consisting of THREE separate releases . You may say that "The discussion area is in "docs"
Re: Move the Handbook into source tree
On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 12:17 PM David Chisnall wrote: > Hi, > > I think there are two conflated things here: > > - Moving the handbook into the source tree. > - Creating branches in the handbook that track particular releases. > > The first one is largely irrelevant to anyone other than people > contributing to the handbook, so I'll focus on the second: > > This is quite an easy way of having a per-release snapshot but it means > that the handbook will diverge for different releases over time. If the > new docs are documenting things that are new, that's fine, but if new > docs are added to -CURRENT for things in a release, then they will need > to follow the same MFC process as code flowing from current to releases, > which brings up the potential of merge conflicts and so on. > > This is made even more complex in cases where code is MFC'd. Typically > (unfortunately) docs are added to the handbook after a feature is > committed and so things will need to be MFC'd at the same time as other > features are MFC'd or later if they're written after the original MFC. > > I see two possible workflows, the current and the proposed one, both of > which have disadvantages: > > - With the current workflow, you need to explicitly track which > release things apply to in the document. > - With your proposed workflow, you need to explicitly track which > release things apply to by merging them at the correct time. > > It's not clear to me that either of these is necessarily easier than the > other. > > David > > My primary training is "Mathematics ( Option : Statistics and Operations Research ) , then Computer Engineering and Sciences . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research Operations research When we think in this context , propositions are ( NOT EXACT ) but as alternatives or an alternative . It is possible to think of moving the Handbook into the source tree because manual pages are within the source tree . It may even be possible to construct some parts of the Handbook by utilizing the manual pages . In that way , errors due to repetitions will be eliminated easily . Therefore the main problem is not the way of the implementation of separate handbooks but maintaining separate handbooks and achieving correct and usable information in them . My proposition is also considering "branching" of a new release . If the Handbook is directly within the source tree or it is coupled into it in such a way that branching covers it . I think implementers will make their own decisions in the best way to realize it successfully and easily . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > On 07/09/2021 08:01, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > Dear All , > > > > in many of my messages to FreeBSD mailing lists I am mentioning the > > following view : > > > >"Please move the Handbook into source tree , and > > Maintain it with respect to current release without mixing sliding > > releases : If you do this , > > maintenance of a correct Handbook is IMPOSSIBLE because maintenance > of > > associated IF statements about releases . > > " > > > > When we look at the following web pages , we see the following : > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi > > FreeBSD Manual Pages > > > > In the second box of "All sections" line , there are lines about all of > > the FreeBSD releases > > with many more other systems . > > > > In spite of this , in the following page : > > > > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ > > FreeBSD Handbook > > The FreeBSD Documentation Project > > > > > > " > > Abstract > > > > Welcome to FreeBSD! This handbook covers the installation and day to day > > use of > > FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE, FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE and FreeBSD 11.4-RELEASE. ... > > " > > > > A Handbook which ( for me , exactly , for the others , perhaps ) with > many > > errors ... > > > > > > I think that , it is NOT extraordinarily a difficult process to move the > > Handbook into source > > tree and maintaining it with respect to per release and insert into the > > above web page a part > > similar to the manual pages to display the requested Handbook with > respect > > to releases . > > In the present case , previous handbooks are lost , because of the > > difficulty of finding them . > > > > Thank you very much and my best wishes for you and humanity in these > > pandemic days ... > > > > > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > > > >
Move the Handbook into source tree
Dear All , in many of my messages to FreeBSD mailing lists I am mentioning the following view : "Please move the Handbook into source tree , and Maintain it with respect to current release without mixing sliding releases : If you do this , maintenance of a correct Handbook is IMPOSSIBLE because maintenance of associated IF statements about releases . " When we look at the following web pages , we see the following : https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi FreeBSD Manual Pages In the second box of "All sections" line , there are lines about all of the FreeBSD releases with many more other systems . In spite of this , in the following page : https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ FreeBSD Handbook The FreeBSD Documentation Project " Abstract Welcome to FreeBSD! This handbook covers the installation and day to day use of FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE, FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE and FreeBSD 11.4-RELEASE. ... " A Handbook which ( for me , exactly , for the others , perhaps ) with many errors ... I think that , it is NOT extraordinarily a difficult process to move the Handbook into source tree and maintaining it with respect to per release and insert into the above web page a part similar to the manual pages to display the requested Handbook with respect to releases . In the present case , previous handbooks are lost , because of the difficulty of finding them . Thank you very much and my best wishes for you and humanity in these pandemic days ... Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
Re: Undefined compiler behaviour or a compiler bug?
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:08 AM Hans Petter Selasky
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can someone please explain what C-compiler flag I'm missing, to make
> this simple C-program terminate?
>
> I have a function _abs() which at some point is equal to one, but the
> compiler thinks it is not required to emit the test for the while() at
> all, looking at the assembly code! A printf() clearly verifies that the
> _abs() function has returned one.
>
> I even added an own if() check, but apparently the compiler is lost!
>
> cat << EOF > test.c
> #include
> #include
>
> typedef struct {
> int32_t x;
> int32_t y;
> } c32_t;
>
> static c32_t
> _mul(c32_t a, c32_t b)
> {
> return (c32_t){
> a.x * b.x - a.y * b.y, a.x * b.y + a.y * b.x
> };
> }
>
> static uint32_t
> _abs(c32_t a)
> {
> return (a.x * a.x + a.y * a.y);
> }
>
> int
> main()
> {
> c32_t a = {4, 1};
> c32_t b = {};
> uint32_t l1 = 0;
>
> while (_abs(a) != 1) {
> uint32_t l0 = _abs(a) & ~1;
>
> /* figure out least significant bit */
> l0 &= ~(l0 - 1);
>
> if (l0 == 0 || l0 > l1) {
> l1 = l0;
> if (_abs(a) == 1)
> printf("VALUE IS ONE\n");
> printf("Y:0x%08x ABS:0x%08x\n", a.y, _abs(a));
> }
> a.y += 2;
> }
>
> size_t count = 0;
>
> do {
> count++;
> b = _mul(b, a);
> } while (b.x != 1 || b.y != 0);
>
> printf("%d,%d,0x%x COUNT=%zd\n", a.x, a.y, _abs(a), count);
>
> return (0);
> }
> EOF
>
> clang11 -O2 test.c && ./a.out
>
> --HPS
> ___
>
>
If _abs(a) is not an Integer , please do NOT use " equality" comparison
with Integer 1 .
Instead , please use "If abs ( ( _abs(a) - 1 ) ) is 'less than or
equal to an Epsilon approximate to Zero' " , because equality of a
floating point value to an integer value is approximately "Impossible" due
to trailing bits unpredictability of floating point values .
And do not rely on "printed values" of "floating point" values , because
a value in memory and its printed values approximately are always different
due to formatting specification .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: Is there any machine RISC-V implemented ?
On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 3:43 AM KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko wrote: > Hi, all > > I've found RISC-V images in snapshots/ISO-IMAGES. Is there > any machine RISC-V implemented so far ? > ___ > > Please , search the following phrase in Google : Is there any machine RISC-V implemented so far ? and , see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC-V RISC-V Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: copyright notice question
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 2:52 AM Rick Macklem wrote: > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > >On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 4:04 AM Rick Macklem <mailto:rmack...@uoguelph.ca>> wrote: > >>Warner Losh wrote: > >>>On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 7:25 PM Rick Macklem <mailto:rmack...@uoguelph.ca><mailto:rmack...@uoguelph.ca rmack...@uoguelph.ca>>> wrote: > >>>>I'll admit I've hesitated to ask this for a long time, but I guess I > have to;-) > >>>>I've created two daemons for NFS-over-TLS, using the code in > >>>>/usr/src/usr.sbin/gssd/gssd.c as a starting point. > >>>>--> As such, I left the copyright notice from this file on the two > files. > >>>> (As you can see, it is a 2 clause FreeBSD one, so the terms > aren't > >>>> an issue.) > >>>> > >>>>What I am wondering is if I should be adding my name to it as an > >>>>additional author or something like that? > >>>>(I don't care, but it does seem a little weird that the copyright is > held > >>>> by Isilon Inc, since I have no connection to them.) > >>> > >>>Likely. If you changed a substantial amount, then yes. The rule of > thumb is >50% > >>> is no brainer yes. Smaller percentages require more nuanced judgement > as to whether the changes are substantial enough to create a new work. > Chances are > >>> quite good you fall into one of those categories. Also, if you have > replaced more > >>>than ~90% chances are good no original work remains. Again, a judgement > call. > >>>There are more technical legal guidelines, but that would require a > lawyer. > >>> > >>>My hunch is that unless this is something far more trivial than I then > I'd add the > >>> notice, but retaining the old. > >>Well, I'd guess it's somewhere in the 50->90% category. > >>Would just adding a comment below the current copyright notice like: > >>/* > >> * Extensively modified from /usr/src/usr.sbin/gssd.c for RPC-over-TLS > >> * by Rick Macklem. > >> */ > >>be sufficient for the project, or should I put a second copyright notice > >>on it with my name on it? (This will seem odd, since it will have the > same > >>terms as the extant one, but if that is what is appropriate for the > project..) > >> > >>It is my understanding (I'm obviously not a lawyer, clearly indicated by > the > >>size of my bank account;-) that a copyright notice can only be changed by > >>the holder (or with their express permission), but an additional > copyright > >>notice can be attached to the work to cover the re-write. > >>Is this correct? (All amateur lawyers, feel free to respond;-) > >> > >>Thanks for your comments, rick > >> > >>>Warnet > >> > [copyright comment snipped] > >My opinion is as follows : > > > >At the top of the related sources I would include a message ( > approximately ) as >follows : > > I believe for FreeBSD this would need to be after the main copyright > notice, > but that is trivial, I think? > > > A "Copyright owner additions Style Guide" may be prepared by the FreeBSD Project to make a common application pattern for such inclusions . A commonly accepted and applied style is the best over time . > >After svn ( or git ) modification number(s) ... ( including ) I have > made substantial ( or significant ) modifications ( or improvements ) . > >The copyright of these modifications with the present license listed > below are >belong to > > > >Rick Macklem , starting from date . > > ( Rick Macklem ... an approximately fixed address ... ) > Does anyone know if there are examples of this in other major open > source projects? > > I would be very shy of creating a notice that is not exactly what other > FreeBSD files have in them. For one thing, is referring to license terms > in another > copyright notice "standard practice"? > > I'll admit that, unless there are examples of this elsewhere in the FreeBSD > source tree (or at least in other major open source projects), I would not > be > comfortable doing this. > > Maybe I'll try asking this question... > Is there a concern that the copyright notice that is on gssd.c could be > considered > "not valid" due to the extensive changes made to the code by me? > (If the answer to that is "no", then I don't see that anything needs to be > done, > since the notice includes reasonable terms as
Re: copyright notice question
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 4:04 AM Rick Macklem wrote: > Warner Losh wrote: > >On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 7:25 PM Rick Macklem rmack...@uoguelph.ca>> wrote: > >>I'll admit I've hesitated to ask this for a long time, but I guess I > have to;-) > >>I've created two daemons for NFS-over-TLS, using the code in > >>/usr/src/usr.sbin/gssd/gssd.c as a starting point. > >>--> As such, I left the copyright notice from this file on the two files. > >> (As you can see, it is a 2 clause FreeBSD one, so the terms aren't > >> an issue.) > >> > >>What I am wondering is if I should be adding my name to it as an > >>additional author or something like that? > >>(I don't care, but it does seem a little weird that the copyright is held > >> by Isilon Inc, since I have no connection to them.) > >> > >Likely. If you changed a substantial amount, then yes. The rule of thumb > is >50% > > is no brainer yes. Smaller percentages require more nuanced judgement as > to whether the changes are substantial enough to create a new work. Chances > are > > quite good you fall into one of those categories. Also, if you have > replaced more > >than ~90% chances are good no original work remains. Again, a judgement > call. > >There are more technical legal guidelines, but that would require a > lawyer. > > > >My hunch is that unless this is something far more trivial than I then > I'd add the > > notice, but retaining the old. > Well, I'd guess it's somewhere in the 50->90% category. > Would just adding a comment below the current copyright notice like: > /* > * Extensively modified from /usr/src/usr.sbin/gssd.c for RPC-over-TLS > * by Rick Macklem. > */ > be sufficient for the project, or should I put a second copyright notice > on it with my name on it? (This will seem odd, since it will have the same > terms as the extant one, but if that is what is appropriate for the > project..) > > It is my understanding (I'm obviously not a lawyer, clearly indicated by > the > size of my bank account;-) that a copyright notice can only be changed by > the holder (or with their express permission), but an additional copyright > notice can be attached to the work to cover the re-write. > Is this correct? (All amateur lawyers, feel free to respond;-) > > Thanks for your comments, rick > > Warnet > > > Here's what it currently says: > /*- > * SPDX-License-Identifier: BSD-2-Clause-FreeBSD > * > * Copyright (c) 2008 Isilon Inc http://www.isilon.com/ > * Authors: Doug Rabson mailto:d...@rabson.org>> > * Developed with Red Inc: Alfred Perlstein alf...@freebsd.org>> > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > *notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > *notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > *documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR > PURPOSE > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE > * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR > CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, > STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY > WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > */ > > Thanks for any comments, rick > ___ > > My opinion is as follows : At the top of the related sources I would include a message ( approximately ) as follows : " After svn ( or git ) modification number(s) ... ( including ) I have made substantial ( or significant ) modifications ( or improvements ) . The copyright of these modifications with the present license listed below are belong to Rick Macklem , starting from date . ( Rick Macklem ... an approximately fixed address ... ) " Each contributor may append such notifications listed on the topmost part . When a person reads such sources , she/he very easily understands its modification and copyright status without any doubt . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: documentation on release build process change (svn -> git)?
Dear Michael , Your messages are classified as spam because GMail is not able to verify that their origin is the above address . I have tried to send this message to Michael Butler GMail responded as approximately "The address could not be found." . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 12:48 AM Glen Barber wrote: > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 09:43:25PM +, Glen Barber wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 09:40:17PM +, Glen Barber wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 09:30:02PM +, Glen Barber wrote: > > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 05:21:16PM -0400, Michael Butler wrote: > > > > > On 8/29/20 5:17 PM, Glen Barber wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 04:38:05PM -0400, Michael Butler wrote: > > > > > >> The build-from-existing mode fails with .. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> imb@vm01:/usr/src/release> sudo ./release.sh -c > release-i386.conf > > > > > >> fatal: not a git repository (or any parent up to mount point > /usr) > > > > > >> Stopping at filesystem boundary > (GIT_DISCOVERY_ACROSS_FILESYSTEM not set). > > > > > >> umount: /usr/local/release-builds/i386/dev: not a file system > root directory > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the fun part - Which revision was this? > > > > > > > > > > The host system is check-out from SVN r364964, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please try the attached patch against your release.sh? > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind, I see the problem. Standby. > > > > > > > r364966 should fix it. Thank you again for your help here. > > > > Sigh. r364968 should *really* fix it.. > > Is it Friday yet? > > Glen > > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: inconsistent for() and while() behavior when using floating point
On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Yuri Pankov <yur...@icloud.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Looking at https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=217149, I
> noticed that it isn't a seq(1) problem per se, rather for() and while()
> loops behaving inconsistently while using floating point, i.e.:
>
> double i;
>
> for (i = 1; i <= 2.00; i += 0.1)
> printf("%g\n", i);
>
> would produce:
>
> 1
> ...
> 1.9
>
> but:
>
> double i;
>
> for (i = 1; i <= 2; i += 0.2)
> printf("%g\n", i);
>
> would correctly end with 2:
>
> 1
> ...
> 2
>
> $ cc -v
> FreeBSD clang version 6.0.0 (branches/release_60 321788) (based on LLVM
> 6.0.0)
> Target: x86_64-unknown-freebsd12.0
> Thread model: posix
> InstalledDir: /usr/bin
>
> though gcc 4.4.4 on illumos behaves the same.
>
> Is this a known problem with loops and floating point numbers?
> ___
>
When you perform floating point computations , it may be useful to remember
that , the last bits of floating point numbers may be considered to be
"noise" .
For that reason , the same "for" or "while" loops may behave differently in
different times and places .
To make floating point related loops more deterministic , the useful steps
may be to compute "step size" and "number of steps" , and use integer
variables for counting loop steps with multiplication of "loop counter"
and "step size" during loop steps : For floating point loop counter T =
"integer loop counter" * "step size" .
A statement like T = T + "step size" will/may produce wrong results if
number of steps is sufficiently large .
Computer arithmetic and theoretical arithmetic are not the same .
For example , addition is not associative in computer arithmetic : a + ( b
+ c ) is not always equal to ( a + b ) + c .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: Issue mentioned on questions list
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Shane Ambler <free...@shaneware.biz> wrote: > I'm not expecting a reply to this, it was something that come up > discussing building custom kernels. > > Just wondering if someone may be interested in looking at the > possibility of changing username length to a sysctl. > > As the number of people using computers is increasing, it is now > common for web sites/mail servers to use your full email as your > username, keeping that consistent through all username usage doesn't > seem like an unreasonable request. I would expect a username length > sysctl value would only be allowed to be set in the loader.conf at boot > time, similar to zfs.arc_max > > > Over time , I want to generate a FreeBSD live CD/DVD with root/user password entered on boot ( i.e. , no prerecorded passwords ) from a 2D bar code or from a USB stick or from an SD card with sufficiently long length defined in the kernel routines . This feature also may be used for remote logins . Such a long password generated by a program by random character selection from a character alphabet is impossible to estimate . This "password name length" feature may also be considered along side with "user name length" . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > Forwarded Message > Subject: Re: Custom kernel for NAT and PF ? > Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 13:58:56 +0930 > From: Shane Ambler <free...@shaneware.biz> > To: Doug McIntyre <mer...@geeks.org>, FreeBSD Questions < > freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org> > > On 14/05/2016 04:40, Doug McIntyre wrote: > >> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:04:55PM +0930, Shane Ambler wrote: >> >>> Now you only need to compile a custom kernel if you want to use newer >>>> >>> features. >>> >> ... >> >> Unfortunately, I have two situations where that isn't true. >> >> For the first, I wish that just loading the PPS drivers enabled the >> PPS_SYNC option in the kernel, but it doesn't seem to. (if there is >> a way to enable 'option PPS_SYNC' with a generic kernel I'd like to know, >> but my experients didn't lead me that working. I still have to compile >> the kernel for my GPS connected NTP servers. Which makes me wonder why >> the PPS drivers are a kernel loadable object. >> > > I would report that as a bug and see if it can be improved. > > The second is that the username handling is still limited to 32-bytes, >> which really cramps my logins for ' >> billyjoebobu...@somesillydomainname.com' >> so I have to build a custom kernel with longer usernames patched for >> the systems that need to deal with system logins like that. >> > > While I don't have that issue, it does sound like an old time > limitation that should be considered for rework. Maybe it could be > made into an adjustable sysctl. > > -- > FreeBSD - the place to B...Software Developing > > Shane Ambler > > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Realtek MMC/MMCSD reader?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Larry Rosenman <l...@lerctr.org> wrote: > Great. Since I've never done that > > Any ideas of anyone that might be able to help? > > Or where to even start? > > > Perhaps https://www.nostarch.com/bsddrivers.htm FreeBSD Device Drivers ? Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 08:48:02PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > You'll have to write a driver for it. > > > > Warner > > On Feb 19, 2016 8:32 PM, "Larry Rosenman" <l...@lerctr.org> wrote: > > > > > Any chance of supporting: > > > > > > none7@pci0:6:0:0: class=0xff card=0x522a10ec chip=0x522a10ec > > > rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 > > > vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.' > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > ___ > > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > > > > > ___ > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Add isboot iSCSI boot driver to FreeBSD
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Allan Jude <allanj...@freebsd.org> wrote: > On 2015-09-23 11:16, John Nielsen wrote: > > On Sep 23, 2015, at 2:12 AM, Yonas Yanfa <yo...@fizk.net> wrote: > > > >> isboot is a iSCSI boot driver written by Daisuke Aoyama that allows you > to boot your root partition using iSCSI. > > [,,,] > >> This was first announced way back in June, 2010: > >> > >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2010-June/004425.html > >> > >> I've tested the current version (v0.2.10) and it works with FreeBSD > 10.2 booting a ZFS on root installation: > >> > >> http://www.peach.ne.jp/archives/isboot/isboot-0.2.10.tar.gz > >> > Yes , each file in the tar ball has BSD license at their beginning one by one . > >> I've used iSCSI boot with Ubuntu Server for a while and it's been very > useful. I'm looking forward to FreeBSD having the same capability built-in. > > > > +1. I have used this module in the past and it is extremely useful. > Thanks for the pointer, I wasn’t aware it had been updated for FreeBSD 10.x > so recently. I’ve also wondered why this is not part of FreeBSD by default. > > > > Aoyama-san, do you have any objection to this code being included in > FreeBSD? If not, can you formally assign it a BSD or other friendly > license? Thank you again for the work! > > > > It appears to already have a standard BSD2 license on it. > > > Trasz (or anyone), is there other work to support iSCSI booting and/or > IBFT on FreeBSD? Anything else isboot might conflict with? Any problems > with integrating the code or with the code itself? > > > > In the mean time, I’m going to work on adding an isboot port to the tree > to further ease installation and increase exposure. > > > > JN > > > > _______ > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > > > > > -- > Allan Jude > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: mfi timeouts at boot on ASUS Z97 motherboard with LSI 9240-4i
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Garrett Cooper yaneurab...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 8, 2015, at 0:49, Garrett Cooper yaneurab...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 7, 2015, at 19:35, Konstantin Belousov kostik...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 12:04:44PM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: Hi, I just tried to upgrade my system from a Nehalem style era CPU/motherboard (a W series Xeon/P6T-WS) to a Haswell style CPU/motherboard (an E-series Haswell/Z97 motherboard), and I?ve run into some fun issues with my LSI 9240-4i controller. In particular, it?s timing out because of issues noted similar to here: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2011-October/064404.html . I?ve done the following so far to try and diagnose the issue: - Upgraded the firmware on the card and in the BIOS - Tweaked with the PCI-E settings (2.0/3.0; disabled power savings mode in the BIOS; etc) - Turned off 4GB ?remapping? on the PCM. - Booted USB key fob-based images running: 9.3-RELEASE, 10.1-RELEASE, 10-STABLE, 11-CURRENT - Booted my original drive running 9.3-RELEASE - Booted with hw.mfi.msi=0 set in loader. - Booted with boot -v. One more thing to try, is to put the card into PCIe slot handled by the south bridge instead of the CPU slot. I have two Drake Skinnies card which I cannot use, since all my machines are desktop class, and the only available PCIe 8x+ slots are connected to CPU. I was never able to get a satisfactory explanation why the thing does not like CPU' PCIe. Northbridge, Southbridge, didn’t seem to matter :/… I’ve tried all 3 PCI-E slots to no avail. One thing that I’m thinking might be a problem is the fact that it’s sharing resources between the onboard graphics and the storage controller, and plus the other two slots were supposedly dedicated for storage purposes or some such (NVME, etc). Guess I’ll try neutering the onboard GPU and see what happens... Nope. Still timing out with onboard GPU off… I give up with this motherboard... If your motherboard is not listed in the following lists as suitable for Linux , it may cause problems under Unix like operating systems : http://www.asus.com/Static_WebPage/OS_Compatibility/ http://www.asus.com/websites/global/aboutASUS/OS/Linux1410.pdf http://www.asus.com/Static_WebPage/Server/ Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Massive libxo-zation that breaks everything
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:11 PM, John Baldwin j...@freebsd.org wrote: On Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:35:34 AM Alfred Perlstein wrote: On 3/4/15 8:21 AM, John Baldwin wrote: I would probably want pciconf -l in that case to dump the entire PCI header (right now the human-readable pciconf -l only dumps a subset), and I would want it to dump fields in capabilities that we don't currently bother printing (and that I don't think the human-readable output should print due to it being too obscure, etc.) I actually agree on this and this is why I was upset that the more straightforward GSoC code was shot down in favor of this. That said don't we all need to look at the greater good when making software and we have some consensus on this so its worth going forward imo. We can agree on something even though it might make hairs stand up or we just stagnate. I think there might some cases where converting the existing output directly is fine (netstat -s comes to mind), but I think we should not be opposed to the idea that some utilities should output a different set of data for machine -readable. Put another way, in my mind something like pciconf -l is a presentation layer, and it's just one way of representing the data involved. Ideally, something like pciconf -l could be rewritten as a consumer of the raw, machine-readable data (I'm not sure I would rewrite it, but in theory the data flow should be something like raw data in kernel - machine-readable format - presentation.) For example, pciconf -l currently has the misfeature that it is a flat listing and doesn't properly communicate the hierarchy that you can see in devinfo (and often times that hiearchy does matter). I would want a machine-readable schema for PCI devices to describe the hierarcy so that you could implement multiple views of the data (think lspci -t vs pciconf -l). However, I think that requires designing the schema in terms of the data you are describing, not based on one extant view/presentation. To expend this further, suppose that pciconf supported multiple views like lspci, would you want that to translate into multiple machine-readable schemas? -- John Baldwin ___ If I were the sole designer of the XML ( or any other such as JSON , YAML , etc. ) output system I would do the following : If a value is generated , and should be stored to output file as soon as possible ( such as debugging needs ) , the present sample in the Phabricator review is suitable . For other cases , I would define a record to store the variable values to list later , for example , pci_XML . Within related program part , by trying as much as to write assignment statements near to each other , I would assign values to the pci_XML variables . At the end of assigning values , I would call a routine to store the pci_XML record to file ( create file , write values from pci_XML record , close file ) . Within that routine , it is possible to store the values of pci_XML record in any way , without making difficult to read primary related program . Updates to that routine will not affect the calling program parts much . As a companion to writing routine , I would develop a reading routine ( open file , read values into pci_XML , close the file ) to call from where processing of the output file is required . As a third routine to display values by using pci_XML to the user during interactive work . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Massive libxo-zation that breaks everything
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Alfred Perlstein bri...@mu.org wrote:
On 3/2/15 4:57 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
.. we can/should do both.
Just make sure the json/html/xml output is versioned, otherwise you're
going to end up with /exactly the same problems/ you have with the
current format.
+1
-Alfred
___
To process the generated XML or any other structured file automatically ,
at least the following three items should be present in a suitable enclosed
owner item :
generated_by_the_program = ...
version_of_the_file = ...
kind_of_the_file = { Data | Result | Variables | ... }
where Data for statistical analyses ,
Result as Success or Failure
Variables as Internal values of some variables .
By using these values of items , the rest of the file will be parsed
accordingly .
These item values may be contained in the generated file name , but this
requires another routine to process file names to extract these information
, which is very unnecessary and does not save anything other than cause
much trouble .
Thank you very much .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: Pluggable frame buffer devices
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Hans Petter Selasky h...@selasky.org
wrote:
On 02/16/15 16:39, Shawn Webb wrote:
On Sunday, February 15, 2015 11:14:47 PM Hans Petter Selasky wrote:
Hi,
I've added support for USB display link adapters to FreeBSD-11-current,
but the kernel panics once vt_fb_attach(info) is called from
fbd_register(struct fb_info* info) when the USB device is plugged or
udl.ko is loaded. Is this a known issue?
REF: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/dev/usb/video/udl.c
--HPS
I personally can't answer your question. But I'd love to help test this,
especially since Haswell graphics isn't supported, yet, and my laptop is
running Haswell. What would be a good USB display device to buy to help
test
this awesome work out?
Hi Shawn,
I think any USB device that uses the brand name DisplayLink will work.
Current list of supported devices:
/*
* Matching devices.
*/
static const STRUCT_USB_HOST_ID udl_devs[] = {
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LCD4300U,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LCD8000U,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_GUC2020,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LD220,
DL165)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_VCUD60,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_DLDVI,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_VGA10,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_WSDVI,
DLUNK)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_EC008,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_HPDOCK,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_NL571,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_M01061,
DL195)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_NBDOCK,
DL165)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_SWDVI,
DLUNK)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_UM7X0,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_CONV,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_PLUGABLE,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LUM70,
DL125)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_POLARIS2,
DLUNK)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LT1421,
DLUNK)}
};
Also see:
man udl
Some work needs to be done to fully integrate with the VT console
subsystem. I had Xorg up and running today with the DisplayLink I adapter I
have, and I works quite well. With USB 3.0 ones I think we can expect more.
--HPS
___
Will there be support for the devices like the following USB video adapters
?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GUE5LGS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i11?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=desktop-2pf_rd_r=1QXWR8TQVH25A4KZWMDMpf_rd_t=36701pf_rd_p=1970566542pf_rd_i=desktop
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2E1MQA/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=desktop-2pf_rd_r=1QXWR8TQVH25A4KZWMDMpf_rd_t=36701pf_rd_p=1970566542pf_rd_i=desktop
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00612ZPQA/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=desktop-2pf_rd_r=1QXWR8TQVH25A4KZWMDMpf_rd_t=36701pf_rd_p=1970566542pf_rd_i=desktop
Thank you very much .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
___
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Re: Pluggable frame buffer devices
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Hans Petter Selasky h...@selasky.org
wrote:
On 02/16/15 22:30, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Hans Petter Selasky h...@selasky.org
wrote:
On 02/16/15 16:39, Shawn Webb wrote:
On Sunday, February 15, 2015 11:14:47 PM Hans Petter Selasky wrote:
Hi,
I've added support for USB display link adapters to FreeBSD-11-current,
but the kernel panics once vt_fb_attach(info) is called from
fbd_register(struct fb_info* info) when the USB device is plugged or
udl.ko is loaded. Is this a known issue?
REF: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/dev/usb/video/udl.c
--HPS
I personally can't answer your question. But I'd love to help test this,
especially since Haswell graphics isn't supported, yet, and my laptop is
running Haswell. What would be a good USB display device to buy to help
test
this awesome work out?
Hi Shawn,
I think any USB device that uses the brand name DisplayLink will work.
Current list of supported devices:
/*
* Matching devices.
*/
static const STRUCT_USB_HOST_ID udl_devs[] = {
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
LCD4300U,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
LCD8000U,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
GUC2020,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LD220,
DL165)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
VCUD60,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_DLDVI,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_VGA10,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_WSDVI,
DLUNK)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_EC008,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
HPDOCK,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_NL571,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
M01061,
DL195)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
NBDOCK,
DL165)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_SWDVI,
DLUNK)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_UM7X0,
DL120)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_CONV,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
PLUGABLE,
DL160)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK,
USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_LUM70,
DL125)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
POLARIS2,
DLUNK)},
{USB_VPI(USB_VENDOR_DISPLAYLINK, USB_PRODUCT_DISPLAYLINK_
LT1421,
DLUNK)}
};
Also see:
man udl
Some work needs to be done to fully integrate with the VT console
subsystem. I had Xorg up and running today with the DisplayLink I
adapter I
have, and I works quite well. With USB 3.0 ones I think we can expect
more.
--HPS
___
Will there be support for the devices like the following USB video
adapters
?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GUE5LGS/ref=s9_
simh_gw_p147_d0_i11?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=desktop-2pf_rd_r=
1QXWR8TQVH25A4KZWMDMpf_rd_t=36701pf_rd_p=1970566542pf_rd_i=desktop
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2E1MQA/ref=s9_
simh_gw_p147_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=desktop-2pf_rd_r=
1QXWR8TQVH25A4KZWMDMpf_rd_t=36701pf_rd_p=1970566542pf_rd_i=desktop
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00612ZPQA/ref=s9_
simh_gw_p147_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=desktop-2pf_rd_r=
1QXWR8TQVH25A4KZWMDMpf_rd_t=36701pf_rd_p=1970566542pf_rd_i=desktop
Depending on what USB protocol they are using we can add support for them.
Maybe you need to buy one and dump the USB descriptors :-)
--HPS
I will attempt to find sample ones ( this may require some time ) and send
their descriptors .
( Some of the following are sold in Turkey )
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/r-grafikadapter-usb-20-auf-vga-da-70833/
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/r-grafikadapter-usb-20-auf-dvi-da-70834/
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/usb-20-auf-hdmi-videoadapter-da-70851/
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/r-usb-30-zu-vga-adapter-da-70450/
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/usb-30-zu-dvi-adapter-da-70451/
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/usb-30-zu-hdmi-adapter-da-70452/
http://www.digitus.info/pt/productos/multimedia/video/usb-grafik-adapter/mhl-micro-usb-20-adapterkabel-ak-300305-002-s/
My main aim is to use such devices to attach to a computer extra
conventional monitors ( they may be very cheap or already
Get started with FreeBSD: A brief intro for Linux users by Paul Venezia
There is the following page : http://www.infoworld.com/article/2858288/unix/intro-to-freebsd-for-linux-users.html Get started with FreeBSD: A brief intro for Linux users by Paul Venezia Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: simple task to speed up booting
On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
wrote:
The rotating swirlie ('-/|\') in the loader accounts for a surprisingly
large part of our boot time on systems with slow-ish serial consoles.
I think right now it takes a step for each 512 byte read, reducing that
to once every 64kB or even 1MB would be an improvement with the kind of
kernel sizes we have today.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
My wish would be to see listing explicit steps because when a lock occurs
it would be possible to report last completed ( or started ) step .
Otherwise , actually seeing a swirling set of characters is itself not much
useful other than showing there is a progress without understanding what is
going on .
If I were able to change anything in FreeBSD , my first choice would be to
change these swirling characters to list explicit names of completed tasks
( or starting tasks which operating system developers would know best
which one is more useful ) .
Thank you very much .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: comments on code-in tasks for FreeBSD (Re: FreeBSD + Google Code-In 2014 = we need ideas.)
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 3:38 AM, Mark Saad nones...@longcount.org wrote: On Nov 14, 2014, at 4:27 AM, Peter Pentchev r...@ringlet.net wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 07:55:16PM -0800, Rui Paulo wrote: On Nov 13, 2014, at 17:40, Luigi Rizzo ri...@iet.unipi.it wrote: But please nuke the current list -- it is completely inadequate for the code-in candidates and misleading for whoever wants to suggest new tasks. Again i am not saying that the projects suggested there are not important, just belong somewhere else e.g. gsoc. I have a few ideas for younger and or less experienced google code in people 1. Analyze the CD/USB install process . Does the actual process match the guide and or general docs . 2. Analyze / comment on the automated install process jumpstart . Does the guide and general docs match the actual process . 3. Test the virtual machine images as vagrant box images , and create vagrant box images from the official vm images . 4. Create a script for the installer bsd install to use glabel to label gparts slices as /dev/label/$NAME 5. Test the ami images , again can the docs be improved are they accurate . The Now let me preface the docs tasks , by no means am I saying that the docs team has made lots of mistakes and their work needs to be rechecked . The tasks are small enough that most high school aged people could grasp the issue, with out any prior experience in BSD world . Rechecking the docs is always a good idea . They should allow the code in members to make some good contributions ; and maybe even some good improvements . I refrained from voicing my opinion while the call for help was going on, but I completely agree that the target age of this Google initiative is inadequate to FreeBSD. The target population is 13 years to 17 years old and I cannot even imagine a 13 year old knowing what FreeBSD is. ...and yet there was pat@ becoming a ports committer at the age of 16 and chris@ becoming a docs committer at the age of 14 :) I think hmp@, alepulver@, issyl0@ and jmallett@ were pretty young when they joined, too. Just an observation, I know that one or two isolated cases do not prove a point :) G'luck, Peter -- Peter Pentchev r...@ringlet.net r...@freebsd.org p.penc...@storpool.com PGP key:http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint 2EE7 A7A5 17FC 124C F115 C354 651E EFB0 2527 DF13 Mark saad | mark.s...@longcount.org One important program class for the less experienced people ( as users and programmers ) would be the following : (1) For the command line operating system programs , mostly it is necessary to give parameters on command line . For example : $ ifconfig displays the NIC information . To apply some operations , it is necessary to give parameters : $ ifconfig -... ... ... ... To give these parameters even by using man pages are very difficult even for the experienced users . Task : By using for selected OS programs , write a routine to the following : When a user enters only program name , display a form to get parameters for execution ( this requires some changes to programs doing operations just by giving its name by specifying a parameter for such cases ) in such a way that get parameters in an order by supplying form parts with respect to previously given parameter values , i.e. , do not present all of the items , let the user some values , and smash the user that such parameters are given incorrectly . Manual pages may be used , but sometimes it is necessary to read the source code of the program to isolate error cases and dependencies . (2) Some programs may use many parameters and every time giving them as command line parameters or by filling forms may not be a very convenient way . By using Expat libraries ( or any other suitable library ) , write a routine for a selected command line program to enter parameters from an XML file with the following structure : $ program_name @XML_parameters file_name Such a result may be obtained by using scripts for executing the programs with specific parameters , but using the above structure may be more convenient usage and they may be used in testing also more easily because some files may be output of other programs . (3) Many OS programs are given their outputs in an arbitrary text form . For automated tests , or input to other programs , these outputs are very difficult to use . For selected OS programs , give all of the output in XML ( or any other selected structured form ) .which they can be processed by using Expat library . To process these outputs , also write a routine by using Expat library to load it into a tree . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr
Re: junior kernel tasks
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Marcus von Appen m...@freebsd.org wrote: Quoting John Baldwin j...@freebsd.org: On Saturday, October 25, 2014 4:45:36 pm Mateusz Guzik wrote: Hello, In short, nice kernel tasks people with C language skills can do in few evenings. https://wiki.freebsd.org/JuniorJobs It is assumed you know how to obtain sources and build the kernel. What you can get in return: - your own code in FreeBSD tree - eternal glory [1] - fun [2] If you are not interested, but know someone who does, please pass it down. [1] - not really, no [2] - well, I guess that's subjective, so that's not a no Even though our bugmeisters have decided that we should not have wishlist items in our bug tracker, I really wish we could store the various idea lists (we have several) in an issue tracker instead. This would allow for folks to comment on ideas, vote for them, etc. It would also make it easier for more people to submit new ideas. Speaking not strictly with the bugmeister hat, but from experience, please do not let us go down the road of (ab)using a bug tracking solution as task and idea management system. I think that using the tasks feature of phabricator (our reviews instance) would provide better workflow support for those things, starting out from sketching out rough ideas, discussing them, breaking them up in seperate tasks (linked to and dependent on each other) and collaborating on them (take a look at https://developer.blender.org/T42339 for a brief example). Having said this, let's keep the bug tracker a bug tracker. Cheers Marcus ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I do not know difficulty of maintaining a tracker such as bug tracker , a different tracker such as development tracker may be defined and used . In that way , ideas which are not expressible as bug in bug tracker ( because sometimes it is not possible to decide whether a problem is bug or a design decision ) may be specified in development tracker and be followed from there . With such a structure the improvement ideas will not be lost in individual mails . At some point an idea may be considered useless or inapplicable but over time it may become very feasible but forgotten or the same person may not mention it once more . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Link for FreeBSD mirrors in snapshots messages
Dears All , Is it possible to include the link for FreeBSD mirrors list http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mirrors-ftp.html into New FreeBSD snapshots available : ... messages ? This link will prevent a search of this list and will encourage use of mirrors by making it available easily . Thank you very much .. Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
No bootable device
( This is the resend of http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2014-August/051617.html with additions . ) Dears All , When FreeBSD 9.1 amd64 Stable ( 2013-04-28 , r 250 009 , .iso ) , FreeBSD 9.2 amd64 Release ( .iso ) are installed with following steps , they are producing bootable and very well working systems : Install Partitioning : Guided , Partition : Entire disk Partition Editor : Finish Confirmation : Commit Final Configuration : Exit Manual Configuration : No Complete : Reboot When the same steps applied to the following installs on the SAME computer and HDD - : FreeBSD 9.3 amd64 Release ( .iso ) , FreeBSD 10.0 amd64 Release ( .iso ) , - FreeBSD 10.0 amd64 Stable ( 2014-06-30 , r 268 038 , .iso ) , FreeBSD 10.0 amd64 Stable ( 2014-07-12 , r 268 571 , .iso ) , FreeBSD 11.0 amd64 Current ( 2014-08-04 , r 269 497 , Disk 1 , iso ) , the installed systems are not bootable , and the last sentence on the screen is the following : No bootable device -- insert boot disk and press any key . I have applied the following steps to make the FreeBSD 10.0 amd64 Release installation bootable : I have booted the computer by the Release DVD , from the Install Shell LiveCD , I have selected Shell , and entered gpart set -a active ada0 reboot with respect to advise giving in http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2014-August/051623.html by Warren Block . The installed system booted successfully from the HDD . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
No bootable device
Dears All , When FreeBSD 9.1 amd64 Stable ( 2013-04-28 , r 250 009 , .iso ) , FreeBSD 9.2 amd64 Release ( .iso ) are installed with following steps , they are producing bootable and very well working systems : Install Partitioning : Guided , Partition : Entire disk Partition Editor : Finish Confirmation : Commit Final Configuration : Exit Manual Configuration : No Complete : Reboot When the same steps applied to the following installs : FreeBSD 9.3 amd64 Release ( .iso ) , FreeBSD 10.0 amd64 Stable ( 2014-06-30 , r 268 038 , .iso ) , FreeBSD 10.0 amd64 Stable ( 2014-07-12 , r 268 571 , .iso ) , FreeBSD 11.0 amd64 Current ( 2014-08-04 , r 269 497 , Disk 1 , iso ) , the installed systems are not bootable , and the last sentence on the screen is the following : No bootable device -- insert boot disk and press any key . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [Heads Up] RCS removed from base
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote: On 10/8/13 9:33 AM, Steve Kargl wrote: On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 08:41:38PM -0400, George Mitchell wrote: On 10/07/13 20:28, John-Mark Gurney wrote: Julian Elischer wrote this message on Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 08:01 +0800: not a big thing but I believe that a lot of poeple use ci/co on /etc becasue it is just there +1 Folks, this is just plain a major violation of the Principle of Least Amazement. RCS is ideal for keeping track of my configuration files in /etc. What do we gain by removing it? Less GPL code in FreeBSD? not a problem unless you plan in shipping a changed version of it on your product?? Most new versions of GPL licensed code are converted to Version 3 GPL . This is blocking FreeBSD if they keep GPL licensed code in base , because commercial companies usingFreeBSD are not able to use FreeBSD any more if the FreeBSD switches to Version 3 GPL . This obstacle is in the base system GCC : It stayed in an older version , and necessitated to switch to Clang/LLVM . Difficulty of such a switch is apparenly known . Therefore cleaning base from GPL licensed code is a vital requirement for further progress WITH RESPECT TO FreeBSD Project structure . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [Heads Up] RCS removed from base
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote: On 10/8/13 12:34 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.orgwrote: On 10/8/13 9:33 AM, Steve Kargl wrote: On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 08:41:38PM -0400, George Mitchell wrote: On 10/07/13 20:28, John-Mark Gurney wrote: Julian Elischer wrote this message on Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 08:01 +0800: not a big thing but I believe that a lot of poeple use ci/co on /etc becasue it is just there +1 Folks, this is just plain a major violation of the Principle of Least Amazement. RCS is ideal for keeping track of my configuration files in /etc. What do we gain by removing it? Less GPL code in FreeBSD? not a problem unless you plan in shipping a changed version of it on your product?? Most new versions of GPL licensed code are converted to Version 3 GPL . This is blocking FreeBSD if they keep GPL licensed code in base , because commercial companies usingFreeBSD are not able to use FreeBSD any more if the FreeBSD switches to Version 3 GPL . This obstacle is in the base system GCC : It stayed in an older version , and necessitated to switch to Clang/LLVM . Difficulty of such a switch is apparenly known . Therefore cleaning base from GPL licensed code is a vital requirement for further progress WITH RESPECT TO FreeBSD Project structure . Thank you very much . sure but lets keep the one one in the the tree untill there is a replacement ready to commit. ro 10 will have NO RCS which is a POLA. If we approach to the removal problem in the following way , I think such removals will be transparent for the users : Assume head iso is Head_A.iso , and it is installed as Head_A.system . We removed a feature and generated Head_B.iso , which installs a Head_B.system . Here Head_A.system and Head_B.system are NOT equivalent in functionality and therefore people should take additional steps to make them equivalent . For automated installs and upgrades this may cause much trouble for some users . Instead of doing the above removal in its present form , apply the following steps : In removal patch , include the following steps also : (1) Modify BSDinstall to install the removed part from ports already stored into CD/DVD . ( This will not require Internet or network connection during install and will be applied automatically . ) (2) Modify upgrade program/configurations to upgrade removed parts from ports . ( Since upgrade will use Internet and / or network , this will not be a problem ) . With the above additions , the new Head_B.iso and Head_B.system will be equivalent to the Head_A.iso and Head_A.system without causing any difficulty with the assumption that new functionality is tested sufficiently and is working correctly . In this way , no one will be affected because new system will not break anything . The nonexistence of the above steps is causing such a large controversy . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: rcs is gone?
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Diane Bruce d...@db.net wrote: On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 03:45:23PM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: On 2013-10-07, at 2:53 PM, David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org wrote: Or do you really only run the base OS and no other software on your systems, without any of your own code or any customisation? We install from the base release ISO images burned on DVDs. We are physically air-gapped from the internet, none of the end users of the system have access to USB ports, and there are no electronic devices allowed into the development shop. We have a scheme for bringing in software from /usr/ports, but it is painful. And those ports can't necessarily walk on to all the systems in the shop. (I don't make the rules. Suffice to say the company is very paranoid about their code getting out into the wild.) Having RCS in the base system is very useful. We use it to track changes to bits of /etc on the machines where we don't do wholesale customizations. (Those ones get git, but they also get an install of /usr/ports with a fully populated /usr/ports/distfiles.) So if nuking RCS is a case of I don't use it, ... we do. Hey we could imoort SCCS instead. http://sccs.berlios.de - Diane -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ This also contains GPL parts as specified in COPYING within ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily/schily-2013-07-29.tar.bz2 Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: installworld broken - osreldate.h: permission denied
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:12 AM, Joel Dahl j...@freebsd.org wrote: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 07:53:44PM -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: Joel Dahl wrote this message on Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 10:13 +0200: On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:19:51AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 15:09 +0200, Joel Dahl wrote: Hi, Fresh HEAD. installworld from read-only /usr/obj and /usr/src: /usr/src/include/iconv.h osreldate.h /usr/include install: osreldate.h: Permission denied *** Error code 71 Stop. make[4]: stopped in /usr/src/include *** Error code 1 Everything was working fine 2 weeks ago, so it's a recent breakage. Okay, I just accidentally created conditions for this error on my system... I checked in a change to newvers.sh while a buildworld was running, which led to a situation where newvers.sh was newer than osreldate.h at the end of the buildworld. Then an installworld tried to regenerate osreldate.h due to its dependency on newvers.sh, which would fail if the obj was readonly at that point. I think we could see if something similar applies for you if you use this command: make -dm installworld SUBDIR_OVERRIDE=include I tried this with a fresh HEAD but the error message is still the same. /usr/src and /usr/obj are NFS mounted, FYI. Are you building on one machine and running install on another? Are the dates the same between the two machines? Yes, both machines are running ntp. I've double-checked the dates and they are in sync. -- Joel The problem is UFS and NFS 3 do not have a COMMON user model . Each user is setting his/her update flag in the server , and the other users are NOT able to access to his/her updated files. In this subject , I had asked the following question : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2013-September/253323.html ( NFS file modes consistency among different operating systems ) I could not find any answer which is applicable . Setting client umask value is NOT respected by any application ( I do not know which ones are using it ) . My solution is to frequently set file modes in the server to a common mode such as rwx-rwx-rwx to allow other users from other computers to access and use the files although the users are the same person with the same name in the client computers . Some Linux distributions even is NOT respecting such a mode and they are giving Permission denied for executable programs which is not possible to find which part is responsible for this rejection . I could not find a detailed information about NFS 4 user model from client computers . It seems that NFS does not have a configuration file to manage access rights among different users by setting default file modes which all of the clients uses that mode . ZFS and NFS 4 together giving an impression that such facilities may be used , but NFS 4 is not mentioned in the FreeBSD Handbook as production usable . In the man pages , it is called as experimental . Therefore , only solution , perhaps , is to set file modes in server when it becomes necessary to access to these files by another user . My knowledge is so much . This is a difficult situation for shared use of NFS 3 by different clients on the same directories . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: clang+libc++ using missing powl
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote: On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 07:54:46AM +0100, David Chisnall wrote: On 5 Sep 2013, at 22:09, Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote: On Thu, Sep 05, 2013 at 09:52:13AM +0100, David Chisnall wrote: On 4 Sep 2013, at 23:38, Baptiste Daroussin b...@freebsd.org wrote: As a result we have a lot of fallouts of ports complaining about: undefined reference to `powl' It seems like libc++ is relying on a function we don't have yet in libm, am I missing something? I've attached a diff that I'd like to commit to msun Why not disable libc++ from exposing these functions? Because they're in the C++ spec and they should work. I consider this a placeholder until we have the real versions in the tree (the wiki says you have coshl, sinhl, and tanhl, in progress, any idea of an ETA for them)? Well, your commit has pre-empted any discussion on whether there would have been a better kludge. Oh well. Concerning coshl, sinhl, and tanhl. I had integrated bde's code into msun and prepared a patch to commit over a week ago. Unfortunately, my testing on sparc64 revealed a few issues with tanhl, and Bruce and I are still discussing the fix. PS: I have working erfl and erfcl for ld80 archs. I'm still testing and refining the code. It turns out that computing the needed rational approximation is fairly difficult (at least for me). -- Steve Not only for you , because function values are not very smooth , and representation by an approximation is very difficult . During many weeks , I am trying to obtain good approximations to cumulative normal distribution and its inverse , without very much success . Approximation to inverse cumulative normal distribution is much more difficult than cumulative normal distribution . I am using Fortran double precision . I think , it is necessary to use an arbitrary precision package for optimization , but I do not have any one . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: GCC withdraw
no difference. If you need to test whether building the base system or kernel with gcc fixes things that are broken, then you are free to build WITHOUT_CLANG_IS_CC and WITH_GCC and test it (or set WITH_GCC, install, and then use XCC to use the installed gcc for testing. Or install one of the lang/gcc ports and use XCC for testing). In the medium term, this should continue to work until there is some compelling reason for it to be broken (which is the topic of a future discussion, where I would expect very compelling reasons to be required). I am not proposing: - To delete gcc from the tree - To delete libstdc++ from the tree - To deprecate any architectures - To break any architectures - To commit loads of C++11 / C11 code to the base system and break the build with gcc - To rely on any clang-specific extensions in base-system code - To remove anything from cdefs.h that allows stuff to work with gcc - To set fire to your cat David To be able to compile a source tree with different compilers is an important Code Review Process with the assumption that the source code is written exactly to adhere a standard and not using any extension of the used compilers ( if there are absolute necessity to use extensions such as date , time , etc . , these are collected into common routines ) . It is obvious that no any human expert can review a source tree like a compiler expert . A compiler may be considered an expert because expertise of programmers are transferred into it as much as possible . For this process , it is not important which compiler is selected for production release . This depends on goals of releases . For development and testing , many compilers may be used and their outputs may be compared . I am doing this for Fortran and Pascal . With respect to my experiences , to rely on a single compiler for any source tree is really a very UNRELIABLE programming practice . Sometimes , some compilers are producing very erroneous code . These cases are requiring special attention : By using also theoretical programming human expertise , these may be results of the following : Some parts of the source are not conforming to standards . There are some bugs which they are not recognized by other compilers . Messages during compilations are not sufficiently produced to inform about possible erroneous points . Some compilers are generating code which is not tracking run time exceptions . Some compilers at some special source statement combinations are producing erroneous code . Using different compilers are detecting such problems much easier than human programmers . Now , I am not able to think to write a program without using different compilers to test its outputs . By based on such experiences , my strong suggestion is that Use as many compilers as possible ( even commercially available compilers if there exist some ) for the FreeBSD source tree after selecting a standard during development and testing . This is the cheapest and most reliable Code Review Process . Use a suitable compiler for the FreeBSD Project during releases . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Current snapshot install is failing on corrupted disk
I have tried to install ftp://ftp1.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/10.0/FreeBSD-10.0-CURRENT-amd64-20130616-r251797-release.iso Installation has failed due to a corrupted disk from a previous installation by another operating system : In the first attempt , when Entire disk is selected from menu about Entire disk or Partition it is failing completely . After a new boot , the checks about integrity of hard disk is producing many fail messages which is preventing continuation of installation . I think , such checks are NOT necessary unless Partition is selected . When these checks are used in unnecessary points , they are making install unnecessarily impossible . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: pkg_add not working
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Neel Natu neeln...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I am running HEAD and recently started getting errors on pkg_add. uname: 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #103 r249396M: Thu Apr 11 23:25:06 PDT 2013 pkg_add -r sudo Error: Unable to get ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-10-current/Latest/sudo.tbz : File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access) pkg_add: unable to fetch ' ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-10-current/Latest/sudo.tbz ' by URL This used to work pretty well until a few days ago. Any clues? best Neel The packages-10-currentftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-10-current/Latest/sudo.tbz is deleted from ftp://ftp1.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/ It seems that , it will be reconstructed from scratch . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control of order of inet devices
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Brooks Davis bro...@freebsd.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:08:00AM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: Since people keep asking about this; maybe it's time we added a hint to the bus code that allows for the unit to be set based on the pci bus / slot / etc. I don't see how that would address Willy's request. Neither the unit number or the if_index of an interface effects its order in getifaddrs() output. With modern bus hierarchies, you probably don't want to use the unit anyway as it loses too much information. Some along the lines of Fedora's Consistent Network Device Naming would likely be more useful. That would be fairly easy to implement. -- Brooks Fedora is using eth0 , ... , eth9 , but FreeBSD is using em* , re* , .. names which is much better than Fedora ( or similar distributions ) approach . In eth0 , ... , usage , it is necessary to record MAC addresses of the NIC units ( because any name is not displayed like FreeBSD ) BEFORE starting an installation to isolate which one is referenced : Even this is not very useful sometimes because I am seeing they ( different Linux distributions ) are reporting MAC addresses differently for some NIC units , and no one of them is identical to others to number eth with existing NIC units ( for example , eth0 is not used for the same NIC by all the distributions , i.e. , there is no any standard numbering scheme ) . FreeBSD is using names ( Realtek , Intel , etc with other information also ) which is very easy to understand which NIC unit is referenced . I think , in FreeBSD , the problem may occur when all of the NIC units are the same model . For such cases , there is a necessity to display also slot / port information ( in that case MAC address is not showing slot / port information ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 3:01 AM, Tom Evans tevans...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All , Previously , in the following message , I have mentioned effect of memory chip placement on execution speed : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speed http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html These seems to be more than different memory slot allocation between those two boxes. Can you reproduce this on the one labelled 'FAST' by assigning memory in the same manner as it is assigned in the one labelled 'SLOW'? The above thread did not produce any usable result . The problem is persisting over 9.1 and 10.0 current . My opinion is that , it is NOT related to KDE only . After X is started , any desktop is behaving very slowly . This is also visible in PC-BSD and GhostBSD . This is very nebulous. What is 'very slowly'? Is there a test you can run that is independent of X, KDE, etc that demonstrates this? One thing that KDE does require (iirc - from about 5 years ago, probably wrong now) is that since KDE is C++, it spends a lot of time loading executables/libraries into memory and prelinking them. If you have dramatically lowered your RAM bandwidth, then this stage could take a lot longer. One thing that could cause memory bandwidth to lower is by installing mismatched modules. The BIOS will set all RAM up at the same speed, the lowest that all of the installed RAM supports. If you fill the RAM slots with mismatched modules of different sizes, it may also not enable dual channel memory, further reducing the RAM bandwidth. Because of this, I think it is a jump to go from My computer runs slow when I put these bits of RAM in to FreeBSD always runs slow when there is mismatched RAM. If you find out what is slow on FreeBSD - eg RAM bandwidth - you can then test the same thing in Linux. If Linux shows the same slowdown from fast to slow, then I'm sorry, that's a hardware defect. If, on the other hand, Linux is just as fast in both configurations, then I'm sure a lot of people would be interested as to why. Cheers Tom I think , all of the answers to your questions may be found in the above referenced thread messages : Every possible combination has been tried , and identified that the problem is different memory chip sizes for FreeBSD ( v9.0 , v9.1 , v10.0 ) ( GhostBSD , PC-BSD , v9.0 , v9.1 ) : Channel A : Slot 1 : 2 GB Slot 2 : 1 GB Channel B : Slot 1 : 2 GB Slot 2 : 1 GB All of the memory chips : Kingston HyperX , same clock frequency . Memory placement kind is correct . There is NO any hardware defect . Linux is insensitive to such different memory chip sizes ( I am using Fedora , CentOS , Mandriva , Mageia , OpenSUSE , Arch Linux , Puppy Linux , and some others ... ) Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dkwrote: In message CAFHbX1KkD7fWP+KZNrSjzCStUM_Smjw7GdKDTo= djjmoe5t...@mail.gmail.com, Tom Evans writes: You say this, have you actually measured/checked. sysutils/dmidecode will interrogate your BIOS and tell us what it thinks is installed in each RAM socket. It is not uncommon for RAM to say one thing on the outside, and report something completely different to the BIOS. I can only second Tom's call for a proper scientific approach to debugging this issue, rather than just assume that it is the operating systems fault. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. I am a graduate of Operations Research and Statistics option of a Mathematics department . All of your considerations are considered . It is so much apparent that , the cause is FreeBSD . In my previous year message and in its subsequent messages , there are sufficiently detailed information . This message is caused from the following fact : In previous year case , KDE used was a cause , but FluxBox was working fast . Now , I have installed 10.0 current . It does not have KDE in packages . I have installed FluxBox . It is not a few second slow : Many minutes to start Firefox , and activate a menu of it ! What is the point of measuring milliseconds when the difference is around many minutes ? PC-BSD installation ( it is a graphical installation after starting X ) is taking many hours to reach 20 percent completion . The same is for GhostBSD : Start it at night , at the next morning , it is likely that it is not finished yet . Then : WQhat will be measured ? Linux installations are around 30 minutes . Starting/Opening menus are instantenous : I do no have chronometer , but everything is within a second . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.orgwrote: On 03/18/13 07:18, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CAFHbX1KkD7fWP+KZNrSjzCStUM_Smjw7GdKDTo= djjmoe5t...@mail.gmail.com, Tom Evans writes: You say this, have you actually measured/checked. sysutils/dmidecode will interrogate your BIOS and tell us what it thinks is installed in each RAM socket. It is not uncommon for RAM to say one thing on the outside, and report something completely different to the BIOS. I can only second Tom's call for a proper scientific approach to debugging this issue, rather than just assume that it is the operating systems fault. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. I am a graduate of Operations Research and Statistics option of a Mathematics department . All of your considerations are considered . It is so much apparent that , the cause is FreeBSD . In my previous year message and in its subsequent messages , there are sufficiently detailed information . This message is caused from the following fact : In previous year case , KDE used was a cause , but FluxBox was working fast . Now , I have installed 10.0 current . It does not have KDE in packages . I have installed FluxBox . It is not a few second slow : Many minutes to start Firefox , and activate a menu of it ! What is the point of measuring milliseconds when the difference is around many minutes ? PC-BSD installation ( it is a graphical installation after starting X ) is taking many hours to reach 20 percent completion . The same is for GhostBSD : Start it at night , at the next morning , it is likely that it is not finished yet . Then : WQhat will be measured ? Linux installations are around 30 minutes . Starting/Opening menus are instantenous : I do no have chronometer , but everything is within a second . Thank you very much . The problem is that slow doesn't mean anything. An incomplete list of things it might be related to: 1. Something to do with the way KDE is built (options, system compiler) 2. A disk I/O issue 3. A memory speed issue 4. Some other process using CPU that isn't running on Linux 5. A scheduler issue triggered by some property of the machine Doing some of these smaller tests will help pin down which of these are causing the problem. Without that, there's no possibility to even start debugging. Even just running top and seeing whether you are spinning in a user thread, in the kernel, or waiting while the slow things are happening would be extremely helpful. -Nathan ___ In the following messages , there are some values for possible combinations on two identical main boards with 2 and 4 core processors : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031912.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031928.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/032012.html FreeBSD 9.1 Stable ( 2013-03-09 ) top in console mode : Load averages : 0.22 0.53 0.28 33 processes , 1 running , 32 sleeping CPU : 1.5 ... 3.5 % user 0.0 % nice 0.6 .. 1.5 % system 0.0 ... 0.4 interrupt ~ 0.95 % idle top in X + FluxBox : Load averages : 0.22 0.53 0.28 xterm ( top ) xterm ( Firefox ) 44 processes , 1 running , 43 sleeping CPU : 1.5 ... 3.5 % user 0.0 % nice 0.0 .. 1.5 % system 0.0 ... 0.4 interrupt ~ 0.96 % idle When there is no user activity : Sometimes % user is increasing , % idle decreasing . When anything clicked in Firefox % user increasing , % idle decreasing . Response is slow ( to open a menu sometimes reaching to minute ) . Closing a menu is taking many seconds . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.orgwrote: On 03/18/13 07:18, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CAFHbX1KkD7fWP+KZNrSjzCStUM_Smjw7GdKDTo= djjmoe5t...@mail.gmail.com, Tom Evans writes: You say this, have you actually measured/checked. sysutils/dmidecode will interrogate your BIOS and tell us what it thinks is installed in each RAM socket. It is not uncommon for RAM to say one thing on the outside, and report something completely different to the BIOS. I can only second Tom's call for a proper scientific approach to debugging this issue, rather than just assume that it is the operating systems fault. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. I am a graduate of Operations Research and Statistics option of a Mathematics department . All of your considerations are considered . It is so much apparent that , the cause is FreeBSD . In my previous year message and in its subsequent messages , there are sufficiently detailed information . This message is caused from the following fact : In previous year case , KDE used was a cause , but FluxBox was working fast . Now , I have installed 10.0 current . It does not have KDE in packages . I have installed FluxBox . It is not a few second slow : Many minutes to start Firefox , and activate a menu of it ! What is the point of measuring milliseconds when the difference is around many minutes ? PC-BSD installation ( it is a graphical installation after starting X ) is taking many hours to reach 20 percent completion . The same is for GhostBSD : Start it at night , at the next morning , it is likely that it is not finished yet . Then : WQhat will be measured ? Linux installations are around 30 minutes . Starting/Opening menus are instantenous : I do no have chronometer , but everything is within a second . Thank you very much . The problem is that slow doesn't mean anything. An incomplete list of things it might be related to: 1. Something to do with the way KDE is built (options, system compiler) 2. A disk I/O issue 3. A memory speed issue 4. Some other process using CPU that isn't running on Linux 5. A scheduler issue triggered by some property of the machine Doing some of these smaller tests will help pin down which of these are causing the problem. Without that, there's no possibility to even start debugging. Even just running top and seeing whether you are spinning in a user thread, in the kernel, or waiting while the slow things are happening would be extremely helpful. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org The dmidecode output is attached . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk # dmidecode 2.11 SMBIOS 2.4 present. 39 structures occupying 1794 bytes. Table at 0x000E32F0. Handle 0x, DMI type 4, 35 bytes Processor Information Socket Designation: LGA 775 Type: Central Processor Family: Pentium D Manufacturer: Intel(R) Corporation ID: FD 06 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 6, Model 15, Stepping 13 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Multi-threading) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2220 @ 2.40GHz Voltage: 1.6 V External Clock: 200 MHz Max Speed: 4000 MHz Current Speed: 2400 MHz Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.ukwrote: - Original Message - From: Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.org To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:26 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots On 03/18/13 07:18, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CAFHbX1KkD7fWP+KZNrSjzCStUM_**Smjw7GdKDTo= djjmoe5t...@mail.gmail.com, Tom Evans writes: You say this, have you actually measured/checked. sysutils/dmidecode will interrogate your BIOS and tell us what it thinks is installed in each RAM socket. It is not uncommon for RAM to say one thing on the outside, and report something completely different to the BIOS. I can only second Tom's call for a proper scientific approach to debugging this issue, rather than just assume that it is the operating systems fault. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. I am a graduate of Operations Research and Statistics option of a Mathematics department . All of your considerations are considered . It is so much apparent that , the cause is FreeBSD . In my previous year message and in its subsequent messages , there are sufficiently detailed information . This message is caused from the following fact : In previous year case , KDE used was a cause , but FluxBox was working fast . Now , I have installed 10.0 current . It does not have KDE in packages . I have installed FluxBox . It is not a few second slow : Many minutes to start Firefox , and activate a menu of it ! What is the point of measuring milliseconds when the difference is around many minutes ? PC-BSD installation ( it is a graphical installation after starting X ) is taking many hours to reach 20 percent completion . The same is for GhostBSD : Start it at night , at the next morning , it is likely that it is not finished yet . Then : WQhat will be measured ? Linux installations are around 30 minutes . Starting/Opening menus are instantenous : I do no have chronometer , but everything is within a second . Thank you very much . The problem is that slow doesn't mean anything. An incomplete list of things it might be related to: 1. Something to do with the way KDE is built (options, system compiler) 2. A disk I/O issue 3. A memory speed issue 4. Some other process using CPU that isn't running on Linux 5. A scheduler issue triggered by some property of the machine Doing some of these smaller tests will help pin down which of these are causing the problem. Without that, there's no possibility to even start debugging. Even just running top and seeing whether you are spinning in a user thread, in the kernel, or waiting while the slow things are happening would be extremely helpful. Surely you can eliminate all of those and confirm / deny the original diagnosis by simply installing balanced memory in the machine and checking to see if the problem goes away? Could this be an NUMA related issue? Regards Steve Please see links in my previous mails . All of these are worked in detail . This is Intel DG965WH main board and I do not know much about NUMA , but with respect to Wikipedia Non-Uniform_Memory_Access page , it seems that there is no NUMA structure in this main board . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.ukwrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Surely you can eliminate all of those and confirm / deny the original diagnosis by simply installing balanced memory in the machine and checking to see if the problem goes away? Please see links in my previous mails . All of these are worked in detail . This is Intel DG965WH main board and I do not know much about NUMA , but with respect to Wikipedia Non-Uniform_Memory_Access page , it seems that there is no NUMA structure in this main board . But have you installed balanced memory and confirmed the problem goes away? Regards Steve Yes . http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031912.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031928.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/032012.html Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dkwrote: In message d956b1ee70984978bcb396a9796ea...@multiplay.co.uk, Steven Hartland writes: You state there that The main boards are the same which indicates to me the machines aren't the same machine which could result in some other subtle difference causing the problem. To confirm you'll need to use the exact same machine for tests with the only difference being the ram modules installed. Or, at the very least, switch _all_ the RAM between the two machines, and confirm that the problem follows the RAM. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. Yes . http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031912.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031928.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/032012.html Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.ukwrote: ** - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Surely you can eliminate all of those and confirm / deny the original diagnosis by simply installing balanced memory in the machine and checking to see if the problem goes away? Please see links in my previous mails . All of these are worked in detail . This is Intel DG965WH main board and I do not know much about NUMA , but with respect to Wikipedia Non-Uniform_Memory_Access page , it seems that there is no NUMA structure in this main board . But have you installed balanced memory and confirmed the problem goes away? Yes . http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031912.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031928.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/032012.html You state there that The main boards are the same which indicates to me the machines aren't the same machine which could result in some other subtle difference causing the problem. To confirm you'll need to use the exact same machine for tests with the only difference being the ram modules installed. Regards Steve The main boards are the same model , two of them in two different cases , not one main board . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.ukwrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com You state there that The main boards are the same which indicates to me the machines aren't the same machine which could result in some other subtle difference causing the problem. To confirm you'll need to use the exact same machine for tests with the only difference being the ram modules installed. The main boards are the same model , two of them in two different cases , not one main board . That doesn't mean that both machines are configured / installed identically you need to rule out other differences before continuing. Regards Steve Important ( determiner ) parameters are ( FreeBSD ( 9.0 , 9.1 , 10.0 : any of them with X + Desktop ( FluxBox , KDE , Gnome , I never used any other one , except one time I have tried Enlightenment , but not for this case ) , Memory Chip Sizes ) . Assume : Computer A : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 1 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB ) : Working SLOW . FreeBSD A Computer B : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB ) : Working FAST . FreeBSD B Interchange memory chips : Computer A : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB ) : Working FAST . FreeBSD A Computer B : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 1 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB ) : Working SLOW . FreeBSD B Then : Interchanging only memory chips is interchanging also the SPEED . Means : FreeBSD installation is NOT important ( or effective ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Scot Hetzel swhet...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: Computer A : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 1 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB ) : Working SLOW . FreeBSD A Computer B : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB ) : Working FAST . FreeBSD B Interchange memory chips : Computer A : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB ) : Working FAST . FreeBSD A Computer B : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 1 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB ) : Working SLOW . FreeBSD B What happens if you configure the memory as ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB , 1 GB )? -- DISCLAIMER: No electrons were maimed while sending this message. Only slightly bruised. This can NOT be done , because Channel A : Slot 1 : Slot 2 : Channel B : Slot 1 : Slot 2 : ( Slot 1 , Slot 1 ) should be equivalent when chips inserted to both . ( Slot 2 , Slot 2 ) should be equivalent when chips inserted to both . Thank you ver much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
Dear All , I tried the following on Nathan Whitehorn's suggestions : I have disabled ~/.xinitrc , leaving X with its default window manager . I have started Firefox . The same slow behavior ! The problem starts after STARTING X . The rest ( FluxBox , KDE , Gnome ) seems to be innocent . If I can apply other tests , please tell me . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:28 PM, olli hauer oha...@gmx.de wrote: On 2013-03-18 21:43, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Scot Hetzel swhet...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: Computer A : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 1 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB ) : Working SLOW . FreeBSD A Computer B : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB ) : Working FAST . FreeBSD B Interchange memory chips : Computer A : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB , 2 GB ) : Working FAST . FreeBSD A Computer B : Memory Chip Sizes : ( 2 GB , 1 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB ) : Working SLOW . FreeBSD B What happens if you configure the memory as ( 2 GB , 2 GB , 1 GB , 1 GB )? -- DISCLAIMER: No electrons were maimed while sending this message. Only slightly bruised. This can NOT be done , because Channel A : Slot 1 : Slot 2 : Channel B : Slot 1 : Slot 2 : ( Slot 1 , Slot 1 ) should be equivalent when chips inserted to both . ( Slot 2 , Slot 2 ) should be equivalent when chips inserted to both . Thank you ver much . I suspect the BIOS does not detect the optimal timing for the SLOW RAM or a RAM Module is running on a slower timing. What happen if you test with only the 2GB or the 1GB modules (to identify possible CHIP issues). How is the memory detected in the BIOS (timings ...) some newer BIOS can run manual tests to detect timing issues. These are worked : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031912.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031928.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/032012.html It seems that memory chip sizes are not checked one by one or used per chip in slots , but a COMMON value is used : Size of chip in first slot . When size of chip in second slot is smaller than size of chip in first slot , problem appears . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD is very slow when Memory chip sizes are imbalanced in slots
Dear All , Previously , in the following message , I have mentioned effect of memory chip placement on execution speed : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speedhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-February/031836.html The above thread did not produce any usable result . The problem is persisting over 9.1 and 10.0 current . My opinion is that , it is NOT related to KDE only . After X is started , any desktop is behaving very slowly . This is also visible in PC-BSD and GhostBSD . I am reading about very much slowness in some messages , which I suspect that , their problem may also be caused such an imbalanced memory chip placement . This problem is making FreeBSD unusable in such computers . The Linux distributions are NOT exhibiting such a slow behavior , and also Windows 7 is NOT affected . It seems that , in some memory management part of FreeBSD is badly affected such an imbalanced memory chip size placement . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:23 AM, Daniel Nebdal dneb...@gmail.com wrote: I think you're supposed to be automatically sent to the mirror that is closest to you - for some value of closest. If the mirror you're getting has issues, that might show up like this. Could you post the output of traceroute ftp.freebsd.org ? It should show which mirror you're getting, and perhaps if there are any obvious problems on the way. Also, you can try setting PACKAGEROOT to e.g. ftp://ftp.beastie.tdk.net , to see if that makes pkg_add work better. That's the mirror closest to me - if that one works ok for you, it's another sign that the problem is with your local mirror. :) -- Daniel Nebdal On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:39 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All , I have installed https://pub.allbsd.org/FreeBSD-snapshots/amd64-amd64/10.0-HEAD-r247266-JPSNAP with a very nice steps flow and it has booted very well . During pkg_add -rv xorg it become necessary to try many times , and for other packages the action is the similar . The response of pkg_add is Address could not be found . . Actually , this situation is started after security incident occurrence . Access to *.freebsd.org sites are so slow that many times , web browsers Firefox , Chromium are displaying a message to tell : Site is not found ... Try once more ... To access to other sites in US may be considered instantaneous here in Turkey . I think a solution may be supplied for this problem . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ Over FreeBSD 10.0 I have installed another operating system , because after startx , fluxbox did not start and there is no any desk top environment available as KDE or Gnome in packages . From Linux : traceroute ftp.freebsd.org The response is : ftp.freebsd.org : Name or service not known . Can not handle host cmdline arg 'ftp.freebsd.org' on position 1 ( argc1 ) I tried netbsd , dragonflybsd , openbsd : All of the have responded . I tried freebsd more than five times , no one of them succeeded . When www is used instead of ftp , the above results are the similar . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Daniel Kalchev dan...@digsys.bg wrote: On 27.02.13 12:23, Daniel Nebdal wrote: I think you're supposed to be automatically sent to the mirror that is closest to you - for some value of closest. If the mirror you're getting has issues, that might show up like this. Could you post the output of traceroute ftp.freebsd.org ? It should show which mirror you're getting, and perhaps if there are any obvious problems on the way. I believe, in his case that would be traceroute ftp.tr.freebsd.org. The list of mirrors is here http://www.freebsd.org/doc/** handbook/mirrors-ftp.htmlhttp://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/mirrors-ftp.html in any case, anything *.freebsd.org actually refers to plenty of hosts all over the world -- some might be slow, some very fast. On the other hand, Address could not be found type of errors indicates something else than fast or slow. Daniel traceroute ftp.tr.freebsd.org is working . traceroute ftp.freebsd.org http://ftp.tr.freebsd.org is NOT working . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Daniel Nebdal dneb...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, that's weird. What does a simple nslookup ftp.freebsd.org give you? On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Daniel Kalchev dan...@digsys.bg wrote: On 27.02.13 12:23, Daniel Nebdal wrote: I think you're supposed to be automatically sent to the mirror that is closest to you - for some value of closest. If the mirror you're getting has issues, that might show up like this. Could you post the output of traceroute ftp.freebsd.org ? It should show which mirror you're getting, and perhaps if there are any obvious problems on the way. I believe, in his case that would be traceroute ftp.tr.freebsd.org. The list of mirrors is here http://www.freebsd.org/doc/** handbook/mirrors-ftp.html http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/mirrors-ftp.html in any case, anything *.freebsd.org actually refers to plenty of hosts all over the world -- some might be slow, some very fast. On the other hand, Address could not be found type of errors indicates something else than fast or slow. Daniel traceroute ftp.tr.freebsd.org is working . traceroute ftp.freebsd.org http://ftp.tr.freebsd.org is NOT working . nslookup ftp.freebsd.org ;; connection timed out ; trying next origin ;; connection timed out ; no servers could be reached netbsd , openbsd , dragonflybsd is working . ftp.tr.freebsd.org is working . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Nebdal dneb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Daniel Nebdal dneb...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, that's weird. What does a simple nslookup ftp.freebsd.org give you? On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Daniel Kalchev dan...@digsys.bg wrote: On 27.02.13 12:23, Daniel Nebdal wrote: I think you're supposed to be automatically sent to the mirror that is closest to you - for some value of closest. If the mirror you're getting has issues, that might show up like this. Could you post the output of traceroute ftp.freebsd.org ? It should show which mirror you're getting, and perhaps if there are any obvious problems on the way. I believe, in his case that would be traceroute ftp.tr.freebsd.org . The list of mirrors is here http://www.freebsd.org/doc/** handbook/mirrors-ftp.html http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/mirrors-ftp.html in any case, anything *.freebsd.org actually refers to plenty of hosts all over the world -- some might be slow, some very fast. On the other hand, Address could not be found type of errors indicates something else than fast or slow. Daniel traceroute ftp.tr.freebsd.org is working . traceroute ftp.freebsd.org http://ftp.tr.freebsd.org is NOT working . nslookup ftp.freebsd.org ;; connection timed out ; trying next origin ;; connection timed out ; no servers could be reached netbsd , openbsd , dragonflybsd is working . ftp.tr.freebsd.org is working . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk So nslookup (of ftp.freeebsd.org) fails on FreeBSD, but not the other BSDs? That's very strange. Is /etc/resolv.conf the same in FreeBSD and one of the working ones? Have you set up a firewall on the FreeBSD install? Does it have IPv6? -- Daniel Nebdal There is no any *BSD installed at present and used . ( Problem is not related to FreeBSD operating system itself .) The commands are used from Linux . It is possible to access netbsd , openbsd , dragonflybsd sites by these commands from Linux , but freebsd sites are not accessible due to very late response . There is no any firewall , there is no IPv6 . When Linux $ traceroute -4 ftp.freebsd.org is used , it is mostly accessible ( 4 successes , 1 failure ) . When Linux $ traceroute -6 ftp.freebsd.org is used , it is NOT accessible ( 5 failures ) . When Linux $ traceroute ftp.freebsd.org is used , it is mostly accessible now . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 AM, matt sendtom...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/27/13 06:28, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: nslookup ftp.freebsd.org ;; connection timed out ; trying next origin ;; connection timed out ; no servers could be reached netbsd , openbsd , dragonflybsd is working . ftp.tr.freebsd.org is working . What is `cat /etc/resolv.conf` (any of those OS) Matt Unfortunately , I did not mention that these are the related web sites , not operating systems . They are used for comparison to understand whether problem belong to my side or to the FreeBSD web sites . I was using Linux for tests , because there is no any installed BSD operating system now . Within a few hours I will try to install latest 9.1 snapshot from ftp.freebsd.org . It is not the subject of this message but there is one very unfortunate situation that at present there is no any BSD operating system distribution which installs , works and can be used like Fedora , Mageia , Ubuntu , OpenSuse , Mint , PCLinuxOS , etc. . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk . ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
I have installed snapshot FreeBSD-9.1-STABLE-amd64-20130223-r247167-release.iso # traceroute ftp.freebsd.org 3 failures : traceroute : unknown host ftp.freebsd.org 2 successes : Route is Izmir ( Turkey ) - Frankfurt - New York - San Jose - freebsd.isc.org ( 204.152.184.73 ) and pkg_add is not able to find package site . Perhaps for many tries it may find in some of the tries , but this will not be a feasible way . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Niclas Zeising zeis...@daemonic.sewrote: On 2013-02-27 20:25, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: I have installed snapshot FreeBSD-9.1-STABLE-amd64-20130223-r247167-release.iso # traceroute ftp.freebsd.org 3 failures : traceroute : unknown host ftp.freebsd.org 2 successes : Route is Izmir ( Turkey ) - Frankfurt - New York - San Jose - freebsd.isc.org ( 204.152.184.73 ) and pkg_add is not able to find package site . Perhaps for many tries it may find in some of the tries , but this will not be a feasible way . Does Turkey (or your ISP) have any sort of great firewall or other restrictions on network traffic? Do you have a firewall somewhere? I have no trouble reaching www.freebsd.org and ftp.freebsd.org from 3 different ASes using both IPv4 and IPv6. Regards! -- Niclas After the above message , I have sent the following message : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-February/040176.html This means that there is no any restriction in Turkey : The problem source is response time of the destination mirror server . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Response of *.freebsd.org websites are very slow
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Peter Wemm pe...@wemm.org wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: I have installed snapshot FreeBSD-9.1-STABLE-amd64-20130223-r247167-release.iso # traceroute ftp.freebsd.org 3 failures : traceroute : unknown host ftp.freebsd.org 2 successes : Route is Izmir ( Turkey ) - Frankfurt - New York - San Jose - freebsd.isc.org ( 204.152.184.73 ) and pkg_add is not able to find package site . Perhaps for many tries it may find in some of the tries , but this will not be a feasible way . Clearly you are having dns problems. First, try a dig with the +trace flag, eg: $ dig +trace www.freebsd.org. ; DiG 9.8.3-P1 +trace www.freebsd.org. ;; global options: +cmd . 518400 IN NS e.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS f.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS b.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 518400 IN NS l.root-servers.net. ;; Received 512 bytes from 10.0.0.1#53(10.0.0.1) in 234 ms org.172800 IN NS a2.org.afilias-nst.info. org.172800 IN NS d0.org.afilias-nst.org. org.172800 IN NS c0.org.afilias-nst.info. org.172800 IN NS b0.org.afilias-nst.org. org.172800 IN NS a0.org.afilias-nst.info. org.172800 IN NS b2.org.afilias-nst.org. ;; Received 435 bytes from 2001:500:2d::d#53(2001:500:2d::d) in 1469 ms freebsd.org.86400 IN NS ns1.isc-sns.net. freebsd.org.86400 IN NS ns2.isc-sns.com. freebsd.org.86400 IN NS ns3.isc-sns.info. ;; Received 132 bytes from 199.19.56.1#53(199.19.56.1) in 1165 ms www.freebsd.org.120 IN CNAME wfe0.ysv.freebsd.org. wfe0.ysv.freebsd.org. 3600IN A 8.8.178.110 freebsd.org.3600IN NS ns2.isc-sns.com. freebsd.org.3600IN NS ns1.isc-sns.net. freebsd.org.3600IN NS ns3.isc-sns.info. ;; Received 264 bytes from 63.243.194.1#53(63.243.194.1) in 27 ms Note the isc-sns.com/net/info addresses. These are our public-facing DNS servers and are distributed around the world. You should see something like this: $ host ns1.isc-sns.net ns1.isc-sns.net has address 72.52.71.1 ... ns2.isc-sns.com has address 38.103.2.1 ns3.isc-sns.info has address 63.243.194.1 It would be interesting to see traceroutes to these IP addresses. You had problems above with the nslookup commands. You might try this: $ nslookup www.freebsd.org ns1.isc-sns.net Server: ns1.isc-sns.net Address:2001:470:1a::1#53 www.freebsd.org canonical name = wfe0.ysv.freebsd.org. Name: wfe0.ysv.freebsd.org Address: 8.8.178.110 or even: $ nslookup www.freebsd.org 72.52.71.1 Server: 72.52.71.1 Address:72.52.71.1#53 www.freebsd.org canonical name = wfe0.ysv.freebsd.org. Name: wfe0.ysv.freebsd.org Address: 8.8.178.110 What does your /etc/resolv.conf file look like? What happens if you change it to (as a debugging aid): $ cat /etc/resolf.conf nameserver 8.8.8.8 nameserver 8.8.4.4 Does that change anything? -- Peter Wemm - pe...@wemm.org; pe...@freebsd.org; pe...@yahoo-inc.com; KI6FJV bitcoin:188ZjyYLFJiEheQZw4UtU27e2FMLmuRBUE Please see the following message : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-February/040178.html ftp1.freebsd.org is working wonderfully now . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Giorgos Keramidas keram...@freebsd.orgwrote: On 2013-02-21 07:04, Matthew Jacob mja...@freebsd.org wrote: On 2/21/2013 5:04 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: Dear All , During development of FreeBSD , testing is very vital . ... This in general is a good suggestion. Most companies do such automated testing as a matter of course. Note however that this is a volunteer effort. Were you volunteering to set up such an automated, possibly testzilla driven, facility? It would certainly help the quality, although as others have noted snapshots are often likely to be broken. To the OP: Like Matthew has said, this is a volunteer effort. So if you have experience with setting up testing automation, and you are willing to help us set up something like this, please go ahead :-) I've worked in places where the following types of tests are used: - Presubmit tests that check specific parts of functionality. - Commit-related tests that run asynchronously in the background, and report back later (e.g. through email). - Test systems that cache previous results and report a simple 'green' vs. 'red' status for _every_ single commit. - System tests that check for particular functionality, health criteria, etc. - some times fully automated, some other times requiring a token amount of manual support. So here are two important questions, regarding the tests you mentioned: When you speak about 'testing FreeBSD', which type of tests are you interested in seeing? Are you willing to help us set up something that runs the type of tests that you want to see? To another message I replied as follows : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-February/039984.html I want say that again to manage such a system is not possible for me very much , additionally for lack of facilities . My wish is that let's take this subject to be worked in detail and by a group effort , design , implement and apply such a testing facility . In this work , if anything I can supply , I will never keep myself back . Without reflective responses , if we consider my first message : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-February/039976.html a very rough outline is supplied . Reason is such a suggestion is to see many failures of *BSD systems that these can be eliminated if such a system is designed , implemented , and applied . In many messages by FreeBSD developers , it is said that it is not possible to establish a testing farm by the FreeBSD project and maintain it , which is quite correct . Assume the following : If any one is downloading and trying to install and run Current development iso files , itis very likely that the main intention is to test and help to its development . By counting number of such testing attempts , it is possible to estimate the number of people which can participate to a more coordinated testing system . My opinion is that such a system ( a distributed testers population ) is already present , and over time , even it may be enlarged . Actually , problem is large enough to establish a working group to attack it . There is a necessity to have committers to generate the necessary ftp sites and manage them . At present , there is a port system . The testing facility will be similar to that system , but different programs will be employed . The first action will be to design what will be tested and how . Since FreeBSD is composed from components ( boot , kernel , each system programs , etc. , ) , every component will be a testing subject . In the svn , there are already testing parts . By combining these , and supplying , developing missing parts will generate a testing framework . At the beginning , it will not be possible to generate a state of the art testing facility . By starting from the existing parts , over time , it will be possible to ad tests one by one . This will be similar to development of ports system : Over time it has been populated one by one . As a an applicable first step , a FreeBSD developer , may establish a wiki page or use an existing one to develop a Testing Requirements and Design , Implementation and Applications page . A mailing list may be established to discuss testing problems . An ftp site may be established to apply tests as suggested in my first message . As an example : Assume that a part related to video display cards is under development , such as KMS . The developer(s) will have a limited number of cards available in their computers . A potential people population exists which they use such cards , for example RADEON , or INTEL cards . In the mailing lists , it may be announced that testers are needed for specific video card branch , such as RADEON . People , fills a form to participate in the tests . The developer prepares a file just like a port/package . Sends a message to the subscribers wishing to test
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Alexander Yerenkow yeren...@gmail.comwrote: How about create -testing mail list, and start searching for any kind of volunteers? I could lend a hand in creating auto-testing some aspects of FreeBSD (at leas successful booting/working net/route etc), someone else probably could have to say something too. I think resources are there, they just need to be gathered :) -- Regards, Alexander Yerenkow Really , there are ample amount of facilities in FreeBSD already . The steps may be the following : - Prepare a testing requirements document : There are existing testing programs in the svn .List them . . The developers may use tests that are not in svn . Collect information about them . . Collect additional testing point suggestions . . Design a testing facility : This may be just an imitation of the packages/ports tree . For each test , prepare a package . The new package management project contains very important information to imitate . Prepare a test_apply program just like pkg_add . Generate an ftp site parts for .../testing/Fatal/... , .../testing/Dangerous/... , .../testing/Harmless/... Generate databases for the collected result mails , with respect to message groups . For each test , generate an ( xml , or JSON , or just name = value pairs ( like .conf files ) ) results e-mail structure . During tests , this file will be created . When such an e-mail is received into a definite address , with program , introduce it into a database . Generate reports from databases to submit to developers . Generate a mailing list about testing facility . Prepare e-mail templates with respect to testing points ( groups , subjects ) . To the subscriber , present a form to fill information which parts he or she can test , and store these into a data base . Associate each test package with fields of the subscribers testing possibilities . When a testing action is required ( generated by a modification in a tested area ) , query the subscribers database , and send an e-mail to possible testers . Before test_apply program is executed , if it is necessary to perform some actions , prepare an algorithm to define such steps and attach to e-mail , or fetch by test_apply . Implementation : The above steps may be implemented mostly by facilities present in the base system and packages in the ports tree . Identify required new programs , write-ups , scripts , etc. , to design , and implement them . Application , Testing : By using a harmless test , apply the above designed system and evaluate outcome , recycle the above steps , Start to populate the testing system with packages one by one . Maintain the testing tree , and when a modification is applied into a part , if necessary , also modify the testing package and request a testing step . Now , there are Call for Testing applications in the present mailing lists . With the above structure , such requests will be more widely applied and will produce structured , analyzable results . If one such package is developed , the rest will start to imitate its many steps , development of new testing packages will be easy . Some of the test packages may also be installed during a complete FreeBSD installation and may be used to test the installed system , and the results may be collected to analyze . I always emphasize structured messages because other messages may not be easily analyzed . Over the studies of this system , there may be some modifications in the base system parts or packages to facilitate a more effective testing . These requirements will emerge over time . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 5:14 AM, Daniel Kalchev dan...@digsys.bg wrote: On 21.02.13 15:04, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: Dear All , During development of FreeBSD , testing is very vital . To my knowledge ( which may not be correct ) , at present , Tinderbox is used to only compilation correctness , means Syntax is tested . I have downloaded ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/**FreeBSD/snapshots/amd64/amd64/** ISO-IMAGES/10.0/FreeBSD-10.0-**CURRENT-amd64-20130216-** r246877-release.isoftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/10.0/FreeBSD-10.0-CURRENT-amd64-20130216-r246877-release.iso and tried to install it on an Intel DG965WH main board . During the first booting , it generated a panic message and entered into debug mode . For me it has crashed , because I do not know what to do in debug mode . On this main board , it is possible to completely install and successfully run Windows 7 , Fedora 15 , 17 , 18 , Mageia OpenSuSE I stopped right here. None of the software you compare FreeBSD-current to is an development build. On the other hand, you downloaded an cutting-edge development build of FreeBSD (not released software) and expected it to be stable. It is not. This is why it is not released. It might not always break, but it might also damage your data and (possibly) hardware too. Unless you agree to accept these risks, you should not play with development versions of software. Having said that, the DG965WH is quite old hardware and any stable version of FreeBSD should work just fine there. You are unlikely to see any benefit of the unreleased versions that are still in development, such as supporting very new hardware etc. Sorry if any of this sounds too hard, but it is reflecting reality. This mailing list, freebsd-current exists to facilitate discussion between those, who know they are running highly unstable, still in development version of FreeBSD that needs lots of work to become more stable. Daniel I will not support your views . My main idea is to describe how we can help to improve FreeBSD testing . The problem is A snapshot intended for testing , is NOT able to boot. . If you ask , do I know what I am doing : My answer is I am working in computing since 1970 . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Matthew Jacob mja...@freebsd.org wrote: On 2/21/2013 5:04 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: Dear All , During development of FreeBSD , testing is very vital . ... This in general is a good suggestion. Most companies do such automated testing as a matter of course. Note however that this is a volunteer effort. Were you volunteering to set up such an automated, possibly testzilla driven, facility? It would certainly help the quality, although as others have noted snapshots are often likely to be broken. I am not able to design , implement and manage such a facility ( most important problem is health ) , but as an individual I want to participate to testing as much as I can . In the source tree , there are testing software . There are other testing sites . By cosolidating them as a distributed testing facility will help making FreeBSD much more robust and increase development speed . My idea is that a wide testing applicators may resolve many problems at the beginning . All the people which are trying snapshots or are using current developments will likely participate such a testing community and produce results in a structured and cooperative way . For example , assume a component for boot up to login ( included ) is modified . Instead of preparing a many hundred mega bytes complete snapshot , only a small boot only snapshot may be prepared and presented to testers . After verifying that the boot process is correct , the more complete snapshots may be prepared . In that way , time and money will not be wasted by including unnecessary parts . Please , consider each component in that way . At present , many tools are already present in the ports tree . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Fleuriot Damien m...@my.gd wrote: On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 5:14 AM, Daniel Kalchev dan...@digsys.bg wrote: On 21.02.13 15:04, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: Dear All , During development of FreeBSD , testing is very vital . To my knowledge ( which may not be correct ) , at present , Tinderbox is used to only compilation correctness , means Syntax is tested . I have downloaded ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/**FreeBSD/snapshots/amd64/amd64/** ISO-IMAGES/10.0/FreeBSD-10.0-**CURRENT-amd64-20130216-** r246877-release.iso ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/10.0/FreeBSD-10.0-CURRENT-amd64-20130216-r246877-release.iso and tried to install it on an Intel DG965WH main board . During the first booting , it generated a panic message and entered into debug mode . For me it has crashed , because I do not know what to do in debug mode . On this main board , it is possible to completely install and successfully run Windows 7 , Fedora 15 , 17 , 18 , Mageia OpenSuSE I stopped right here. None of the software you compare FreeBSD-current to is an development build. On the other hand, you downloaded an cutting-edge development build of FreeBSD (not released software) and expected it to be stable. It is not. This is why it is not released. It might not always break, but it might also damage your data and (possibly) hardware too. Unless you agree to accept these risks, you should not play with development versions of software. Having said that, the DG965WH is quite old hardware and any stable version of FreeBSD should work just fine there. You are unlikely to see any benefit of the unreleased versions that are still in development, such as supporting very new hardware etc. Sorry if any of this sounds too hard, but it is reflecting reality. This mailing list, freebsd-current exists to facilitate discussion between those, who know they are running highly unstable, still in development version of FreeBSD that needs lots of work to become more stable. Daniel I will not support your views . My main idea is to describe how we can help to improve FreeBSD testing . The problem is A snapshot intended for testing , is NOT able to boot. . If you ask , do I know what I am doing : My answer is I am working in computing since 1970 . And in all that time you've never heard of nightly builds being broken ? Please , please , DO NOT understand my message in a different context . I am NOT saying that a snapshot may not be broken . I am saying that Let's test components as much as possible to generate more complex components. . After generating working components , we will start to test their union . At present , we are testing a complex system without testing its parts . This wastes much effort , time , money , etc. . To solve this problem , let's establish a distributed testing computing structure . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Matthew Jacob mja...@freebsd.org wrote: On 2/21/2013 7:32 AM, Alexander Yerenkow wrote: There just need to be a person dedicated to this, which is lacking now. That is correct insofar as it goes. That's why we're not all terribly interested in suggestions about what *could* be done- just what somebody is doing. Please do not assume that ideas are not important . A question asked about Why soap film is becoming colored when lighted ? generated Quantum mechanics to supply a reasonable answer . After generating an applicable plan , it may be that there exist people to implement it . I am reading messages that people are asking for project ideas . It may be that some will be interested in some a project if it is defined very well . Without a plan , what can be done and how , and who will handled it ? Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Testing Facility
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Alexander Yerenkow yeren...@gmail.comwrote: Decent testing system is a pretty complex system to be. I spent some time in this area, and gave it up, at least till better times :) But anyway, at least booting/working network stack/firewall could be easily tested with VMs. There just need to be a person dedicated to this, which is lacking now. -- Regards, Alexander Yerenkow With BOINC , people are trying to solve very complex problems by contributing as much as what they can do to solve its parts . A similar structure may be established for FreeBSD . As an example , booting in virtual machine may be possible , but in a real machine may not work . Some main boards may work , but others may not work . The FreeBSD project can not establish a very large testing farm . People wanting to participate may contribute very much . Every one will not test every thing . For that reason a database will be constructed at the beginning to contain ( user , parts can be tested ). When a test is required , by querying the database , a message will be send to the prospective users to inform them about the tests . The users will apply tests and return the results . At present , there are call for testing messages . In such an organized community , such messages will produce much more structured and effective results . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD as read-only firmware
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Alexander Yerenkow yeren...@gmail.comwrote: 2012/11/3 Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org Hello, Alexander. You wrote 3 ноября 2012 г., 16:14:21: AY Hello all! AY Some time ago I got somewhere idea, that base OS should be RO - readonly. AY And should be updated easily (ACID) and with possibility of fast rollback. Why it is better than nanobsd? Of course, that's all IMHO and fit for my usage: 1) Same FreeBSD, as in laptop/desktop, (e.g. really same - GENERIC kernel is used, without dropping any kerberos or else), and yes, I know that nanobsd can that; 2) .vmdk simply deployed into Esxi/virtualbox (not sure nanobsd can produce that) 3) Transparent /etc/ modifiying VS nanobsd approach (edit, don't forget mount /cfg, copy there;) 4) Only OS, no packages included - e.g. I can upgrade/downgrade packages without touching any byte of OS. Except for symlinks :) nanobsd specified that if you want packages - you need built them in. Of course differences not so big, and I'm not saying that my way is more better. It just raised question deep in me - why OS still aren't modularized, and most of it not in RO (while it should). Something like this -- // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org -- Regards, Alexander Yerenkow One of my goals for the FreeBSD usage is as follows : Search all of the FreeBSD sources for the file opens and write statements . Divert all of the file opens and write statements outside of FreeBSD base directories , for example into /var . Modify base to prohibit any load of executable from /var , and /tmp , and other directories which are not included into base part . Select a primary collection of packages . Divert all of their file opens and writes to /var . Make /home a separate partition , not included into /usr . For any user , if it is selected , allow his/her home unit definition in a removable drive . Prepare a list of programs which can only be executed by root , and move them to a root allocated directory , and make this list a reserved names list . Do not allow any user to execute these programs whether they are supplied by themselves . In a similar way , make a list of executable programs for the base system and packages in the base part , make them reserved names and do not allow any other program with the same name . Delete from the base system the PATH concept , and require that all of the executable names are supplied by complete path . If access privileges of a directory is not **x|**x|**x do not allow any program to be executed from such a directory ( recursively from its sub-directories ) . At present , file access privileges should be ***|***|**x for searching directories . This definition is causing security vulnerabilities for directories because it is exposing it to OTHERS . Convert all of the parts requiring ***|***|**x to r**|r**|--- for directory searches . In that way , if the user is defined in that way , prevent others to access to a directory and make this as default . Record base part into a SDHC card and make it write protected . Prepare the base SDHC card in a computer that is NOT connected to a network and it is physically protected from intrusion . When a change is required , prepare a new SDHC card in the clean computer and use the new SDHC card . Replicate SDHC cards as many as required for different computers . In that way , there will be an impenetrable system which on boot we will know that it is clean . There a some live CD/DVD compilations , but they are not usable for everyday requirements because they are not designed in that way . For such a work , the best one with respect to my opinion , is http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm among other live CD/DVD compilations . I did not try that one in a SDHC card . I do not know exact data transmission rate of SDHC cards , but , I think , it is faster than CD or DVD . For CD and DVD , at present there is NO any only READ CD or DVD devices . They are disappeared from the market . For writable CD or DVD , it may be possible to append some files at the end of recorded area , and the media may be corrupted by re-recording ( I think ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DragonFly vs FreeBSD scheduler
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 8:01 AM, Alfred Perlstein bri...@mu.org wrote: On 11/3/12 6:18 AM, Alie Tan wrote: Hi, No offence, just curious about scheduler and its functionality. What is the different between this two that makes FreeBSD performance far behind DragonFly BSD? http://www.dragonflybsd.org/**release32/http://www.dragonflybsd.org/release32/ Looks like a few specific benchmarks that DragonFly aimed to do well at that we were unawares of. Not sure, didn't see DragonFly sharing the results with us until this paper was published although I may have missed that. -Alfred The following pages are available ( I do not know when they are created ) : http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/ProjectsPage/ http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/ProjectsPage/#index14h3 Disk scheduling rc scripts (GCI:Code) http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/ProjectsPage/#index20h3 CPU scheduler http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/ProjectsPage/#index21h3 I/O scheduler http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/researchprojectspage/ http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/researchprojectspage/#index8h3 Evaluate/Improve Context Switching Performance http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/gsocprojectspage/ Implement further dsched disk scheduling policies (2011 Project: BFQ) Add SMT/HT awareness to our scheduler Extend dsched framework to support jails http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/gsoc2011/ http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/kernel/2011-04/msg00060.html [GSoC]Overview on my GSoC project: Implement BFQ disk scheduling policy http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2012/mihaicarabas/10001 Add SMT/HT awareness to DragonFlyBSD scheduler Mihai Carabas http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/kernel/2012-03/msg00066.html [GSOC] Add SMT/HT awareness to DragonFlyBSD scheduler http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2012/mihaicarabas/1 Add SMT/HT awareness to DragonFlyBSD scheduler Mihai Carabas Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD as read-only firmware
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Ian Lepore free...@damnhippie.dyndns.orgwrote: On Sat, 2012-11-03 at 08:01 -0700, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: I do not know exact data transmission rate of SDHC cards , but , I think , it is faster than CD or DVD . For CD and DVD , at present there is NO any only READ CD or DVD devices . They are disappeared from the market . For writable CD or DVD , it may be possible to append some files at the end of recorded area , and the media may be corrupted by re-recording ( I think ) . Expect roughly 22-25MB/sec on a modern SDHC with a 4-bit datapath. Be aware that there's no way to truly write protect an SD card. There is a write protect tab on a full-size card (but not on a MicroSD), but it's not enforced in the card's hardware, it is a polite request to the system please don't write to this card and some systems don't even have the hardware to sense the switch position. I did NOT know this feature of SDHC cards . I was assuming that such a switch absolutely prevents writing anything onto SDHC card . Then , it is necessary to find another write-protect applicable device which I do not have any idea about such devices . One may be READ-ONLY Blue-Ray device although it may be slow , if there exists such units . Since it's flash-memory based, it also may corrupt the media on write, including the possibility of corrupting existing data that has no relation to the new data being written. That is, you could have a write-protected partition and a write-enabled partition on the same SDCard, and writing into the write-enabled partition can damage data on the write-protected partition. This is because you have no control over the way the embedded flash microcontroller allocates storage internally, and it is free to place data pages from unrelated filesystems into the same blocks (block = erase/programming sized unit). In my idea , ALL of the writes will be diverted another drive(s) ( HDD , etc. ) containing /home , /var . /tmp , etc. and NOTHING will be written onto the write-protected device . I suspect all off-the-shelf nand-flash based storage has the same problems, but CF and SDCard are the only ones I've got hands-on experience with. At work we're now moving away from CF and SDCard and towards putting nand flash chips directly onto our boards, and using FreeBSD to access them rather than relying on the behaviors of some embedded microcontroller we know nothing about. No one is considering write-protect such parts . Therefore , malicious programs are able to even invade and modify such parts or make them unusable . -- Ian Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD as read-only firmware
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Ian Lepore free...@damnhippie.dyndns.orgwrote: On Sat, 2012-11-03 at 08:01 -0700, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: I do not know exact data transmission rate of SDHC cards , but , I think , it is faster than CD or DVD . For CD and DVD , at present there is NO any only READ CD or DVD devices . They are disappeared from the market . For writable CD or DVD , it may be possible to append some files at the end of recorded area , and the media may be corrupted by re-recording ( I think ) . Expect roughly 22-25MB/sec on a modern SDHC with a 4-bit datapath. Be aware that there's no way to truly write protect an SD card. There is a write protect tab on a full-size card (but not on a MicroSD), but it's not enforced in the card's hardware, it is a polite request to the system please don't write to this card and some systems don't even have the hardware to sense the switch position. Another option may be to use READ-ONLY USB card readers , if they really are only readable ( which do not contain write circuitry ) . I am reading information about such devices in company web sites which write is not possible , and write able USB card readers are sold with that feature specified . I do not know exactly how they are working . Since it's flash-memory based, it also may corrupt the media on write, including the possibility of corrupting existing data that has no relation to the new data being written. That is, you could have a write-protected partition and a write-enabled partition on the same SDCard, and writing into the write-enabled partition can damage data on the write-protected partition. This is because you have no control over the way the embedded flash microcontroller allocates storage internally, and it is free to place data pages from unrelated filesystems into the same blocks (block = erase/programming sized unit). I suspect all off-the-shelf nand-flash based storage has the same problems, but CF and SDCard are the only ones I've got hands-on experience with. At work we're now moving away from CF and SDCard and towards putting nand flash chips directly onto our boards, and using FreeBSD to access them rather than relying on the behaviors of some embedded microcontroller we know nothing about. -- Ian Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD as read-only firmware
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Alexander Yerenkow yeren...@gmail.comwrote: Actually in my case, base system image r24243.vmdk, have exactly two partitions (gpt's freebsd-boot, and roots = freebsd-ufs), and second one is used only in read-only :) For virtual machines approach, base image can be even ISO, which will be implied RO for system, and upgrade is just switch ISO. For real hardware, it can be done with such approach - make two partitions with fixed size, and when you need upgrade - just `dd` new image to other partition, mark it as [bootonce] (And if all is ok, as [bootme]), reboot = and you have new OS very quick, with same configs (except for some LARGE changes which could happen in /etc and touch your configs), and with same packages. BTW, when you mount /etc-rw union over /etc, when you'll need upgrade, mergemaster could take less time, less places for errors - since you had to merge only changed files(which present on /etc-rw). I think these days with current hw, no one will complain against lost 1Gb to achieve clean and simple OS upgrade. I'm not saying about possible way to shrink it further (no debug, gzip, etc) - get lesser partition, but still RO, and get ability to make something dd if=/dev/gpt/rootfs bs=1M | sha256 -- Regards, Alexander Yerenkow I am assuming that ANY SOFTWARE read-only protection , whatever it is , has security vulnerability . Therefore , the first approach should be to provide HARDWARE read only . If this is supplied , the next necessity is that , programs in write-protected part should not attempt to write anything onto write-protected part . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Clang as default compiler November 4th
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Tijl Coosemans t...@coosemans.org wrote:
On 15-09-2012 17:39, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Tijl Coosemans t...@coosemans.org
wrote:
On 15-09-2012 16:09, Roman Divacky wrote:
Is this correct?
lev ~$ ./cos 1.23456789e20
6.031937e-01
-9.629173e-02
2.814722e-01
Yes, that's what the libm call returns.
Linux z 3.5.3-1.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Aug 29 18:46:34 UTC 2012 x86_64
x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
clang version 3.0 (tags/RELEASE_30/final)
Target: x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
Thread model: posix
Output of the initial program is the following :
#include math.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
int
main( int argc, char **argv ) {
double d = strtod( argv[ 1 ], NULL );
printf( cos : %e\n, ( double ) cos( d ));
printf( cosf : %e\n, ( double ) cosf( d ));
printf( cosl : %e\n, ( double ) cosl( d ));
return( 0 );
}
cos : 2.814722e-01
cosf : -9.629173e-02
cosl : 7.738403e-01
This is probably because SSE instructions are used on amd64.
Output of the following program is different :
The reason is that...
#include math.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
int
main( int argc, char **argv ) {
double d ;
double two_pi ;
double f ;
double v ;
two_pi = 2 * 3.14159265358979323846 ;
d = strtod( argv[ 1 ], NULL );
f = floor ( d / two_pi ) ;
v = d - f * two_pi ;
...this is a poor way to compute a remainder. Try to use fmod() or
remainder() instead.
My C knowledge is NOT very well . Thanks .
printf( given : %e\n, ( double ) d );
printf( multiplier : %e\n, ( double ) f );
printf( reduced : %e\n, ( double ) v );
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cos( d ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cosf( d ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cosl( d ));
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cos( v ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cosf( v ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cosl( v ));
return( 0 );
}
given : 1.234568e+20
multiplier : 1.964876e+19
reduced : 1.638400e+04
cos ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 2.814722e-01
cosf ( 1.234568e+20 ) : -9.629173e-02
cosl ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 7.738403e-01
cos ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosf ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosl ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
My intention was to check whether there is a difference between Clang
compiled programs in different operating systems .
The GCC output is as follows :
Linux z 3.5.3-1.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Aug 29 18:46:34 UTC 2012 x86_64
x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
cc (GCC) 4.7.0 20120507 (Red Hat 4.7.0-5)
Copyright (C) 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
given : 1.234568e+20
cos ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 2.814722e-01
cosf ( 1.234568e+20 ) : -9.629173e-02
cosl ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 7.738403e-01
multiplier : 1.964876e+19
reduced : 1.638400e+04
cos ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosf ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosl ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
multiplier : 2.607000e+03
reduced : 3.735904e+00
cos ( 3.735904e+00 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosf ( 3.735904e+00 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosl ( 3.735904e+00 ) : -8.285342e-01
This shows that GCC is NOT better than Clang .
Thank you very much .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: Clang as default compiler November 4th
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Tijl Coosemans t...@coosemans.org wrote: On 15-09-2012 16:09, Roman Divacky wrote: Is this correct? lev ~$ ./cos 1.23456789e20 6.031937e-01 -9.629173e-02 2.814722e-01 Yes, that's what the libm call returns. The following is a result in Fedora 17 x86_64 : Linux z 3.5.3-1.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Aug 29 18:46:34 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux clang version 3.0 (tags/RELEASE_30/final) Target: x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu Thread model: posix cos : 2.814722e-01 cosf : -9.629173e-02 cosl : 7.738403e-01 Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliurk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Clang as default compiler November 4th
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Tijl Coosemans t...@coosemans.org wrote:
On 15-09-2012 16:09, Roman Divacky wrote:
Is this correct?
lev ~$ ./cos 1.23456789e20
6.031937e-01
-9.629173e-02
2.814722e-01
Yes, that's what the libm call returns.
Linux z 3.5.3-1.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Aug 29 18:46:34 UTC 2012 x86_64
x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
clang version 3.0 (tags/RELEASE_30/final)
Target: x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
Thread model: posix
Output of the initial program is the following :
#include math.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
int
main( int argc, char **argv ) {
double d = strtod( argv[ 1 ], NULL );
printf( cos : %e\n, ( double ) cos( d ));
printf( cosf : %e\n, ( double ) cosf( d ));
printf( cosl : %e\n, ( double ) cosl( d ));
return( 0 );
}
cos : 2.814722e-01
cosf : -9.629173e-02
cosl : 7.738403e-01
...
Output of the following program is different :
#include math.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
int
main( int argc, char **argv ) {
double d ;
double two_pi ;
double f ;
double v ;
two_pi = 2 * 3.14159265358979323846 ;
d = strtod( argv[ 1 ], NULL );
f = floor ( d / two_pi ) ;
v = d - f * two_pi ;
printf( given : %e\n, ( double ) d );
printf( multiplier : %e\n, ( double ) f );
printf( reduced : %e\n, ( double ) v );
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cos( d ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cosf( d ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cosl( d ));
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cos( v ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cosf( v ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cosl( v ));
return( 0 );
}
given : 1.234568e+20
multiplier : 1.964876e+19
reduced : 1.638400e+04
cos ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 2.814722e-01
cosf ( 1.234568e+20 ) : -9.629173e-02
cosl ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 7.738403e-01
cos ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosf ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosl ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
...
Reduction of argument once more did NOT change results :
#include math.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
int
main( int argc, char **argv ) {
double d ;
double two_pi ;
double f ;
double v ;
double g ;
double w ;
two_pi = 2 * 3.14159265358979323846 ;
d = strtod( argv[ 1 ], NULL );
printf( given : %e\n, ( double ) d );
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cos( d ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cosf( d ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, d , ( double ) cosl( d ));
f = floor ( d / two_pi ) ;
v = d - f * two_pi ;
printf( multiplier : %e\n, ( double ) f );
printf(reduced : %e\n, ( double ) v );
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cos( v ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cosf( v ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, v , ( double ) cosl( v ));
g = floor ( v / two_pi ) ;
w = v - g * two_pi ;
printf( multiplier : %e\n, ( double ) g );
printf(reduced : %e\n, ( double ) w );
printf( cos ( %e ) : %e\n, w , ( double ) cos( w ));
printf( cosf ( %e ) : %e\n, w , ( double ) cosf( w ));
printf( cosl ( %e ) : %e\n, w , ( double ) cosl( w ));
return( 0 );
}
given : 1.234568e+20
cos ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 2.814722e-01
cosf ( 1.234568e+20 ) : -9.629173e-02
cosl ( 1.234568e+20 ) : 7.738403e-01
multiplier : 1.964876e+19
reduced : 1.638400e+04
cos ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosf ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosl ( 1.638400e+04 ) : -8.285342e-01
multiplier : 2.607000e+03
reduced : 3.735904e+00
cos ( 3.735904e+00 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosf ( 3.735904e+00 ) : -8.285342e-01
cosl ( 3.735904e+00 ) : -8.285342e-01
...
Thank you very much .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: Use of C99 extra long double math functions after r236148
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Mark Linimon lini...@lonesome.com wrote: Perhaps a more general name might be appropriate so as to include fixed-point problems? math-libs@? numerics@? I'm sure someone will come up with a better name. mcl Numerics@ is good . Other names may be numerical-analysis@ computing@ ( includes high performance computing ) mathematics@ ( includes statistics , numerical analysis , computation , probability , ... ) Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Mounting removable devices
Dear All ,
To mount removable devices , a user ( NOT root ) requires the following
parameter
vfs.usermount=1
in
/etc/sysctl.conf
.
A warning is specified in
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/usb-disks.html
about its security vulnerabilities .
Instead of using
vfs.usermount=1
for this purpose , a new parameter may be defined as follows :
vfs.removablemount=1
.
If
vfs.usermount=1
is found in /etc/sysctl.conf , then
vfs.removablemount=1
may be assumed , if it is not present in /etc/sysctl.conf .
I prefer separate usage :
vfs.usermount=1 for ONLY fixed devices ,
vfs.removablemount=1 for ONLY removable devices .
A developer knowing the usage of vfs.usermount in FreeBSD sources
may easily implement vfs.removablemount .
Such an implementation will fix security vulnerability caused by
using vfs.usermount=1 for
removable devices .
Sometimes , it may be necessary to restrict mount of removable devices
due to security requirements . Therefore , supplying a vfs.removablemount=
{ 0 or 1 }
may be a useful improvement .
I am NOT able to supply a patch about this because I do NOT know sources
sufficiently well .
Thank you very much .
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: No working IDE in FreeBSD!
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:22 AM, O. Hartmann ohart...@mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote: Several time ago I tried to do some development within an IDE, not even for lectural and educational purposes. Since most of our software is written in C/C++ and OpenCL, I highly prefered ANJUTA, since this IDE was highly customizable, flexible and even FreeBSD's ancient outdated version in the ports suited our needs. Anjuta does not compile anymore for a long time. I do not know why, I filed a PR (ports/161494). So I was looking for an alternative. I looked for some alternatives. The IDE should be configurable to use CLANG. ECLIPSE is to large and it does not fit my purpose. I tried devel/CodeBlocks, but CodeBlocks is narrowminded in terms of configuration of an alternative compiler and I find it really hard and not intuitiv to reconfigure the usage of CLANG. devel/anjuta is broken, so no chance. I also tried KDevelop, since many of our Linux based scientists feel good having this very popular IDE, but it is marked broken on FreeBSD. Before I waste more time on searching for a suitable IDE apart ANJUTA, I'd like to ask people here what alternative they would suggest if the focus is devel/anjuta. Eclipse is no way, KDevelop is broken, CodeBlocks is incapable of being easily adapted to CLANG. Befor people tend to start a flame war: yes, I'm fine with vi and I'm also fine with vim/gvim, but our students need to have the opportunity to work with an IDE and our projects are partially that large, so an IDE is needed. Thanks a lot for your patience and recommendations in advance. Oliver You may check whether you can use the following : http://www.widestudio.org/ http://www.widestudio.org/EE/index.html http://www.widestudio.org/EE/install.html http://www.widestudio.org/EE/builder-doc/7-3.html Personally , I did not use it . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speed
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Harald Schmalzbauer h.schmalzba...@omnilan.de wrote: schrieb Mehmet Erol Sanliturk am 14.02.2012 15:39 (localtime): Dear All , Today I have encountered a case which I think informing you about it may be useful . In my previous messages , I have mentioned very slowness of KDE4 . Onto another computer I have installed DruidBSD 9.0 b56 amd64 , and KDE4 . In that installation KDE4 worked surprisingly fast . To understand whether difference is among FreeBSD or DruidBSD , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the same computer instead of DruidBSD . The KDE4 has worked flawlesly i.e. , means very fast . To make equivalent the installations on both computers , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the slow computer exactly as in fast computer . Starting times after first boot ( to eliminate initialization effects ) are the following ( All timings are from root ) : From startx ( which contains exec ... kde4 ... ) to appearance of KDE menu symbol at the bottom left corner : Fast computer : 8 GB : 0+ ( 1 ) minute ( 4 x 2 GB ) Slow computer : 4 GB : 2+ ( 3 ) minutes ( 2 x 2 GB ) ( 2 x ! GB chips removed ) , 6 GB : 8+ ( 9 ) minutes ( 2 x ( 2 , 1 ) GB ) . ( Memory chip installation conforms to main board manual . ) ( The clock does not have second counter . ) Fast Computer CPU : Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2220 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH Slow Computer CPU : Intel Core 2 QUAD CPU Q6600 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH ( The main boards are the same ) . ( All of the memory chips are the same : Kingston HyperX 800 MHz ) I could not understand the reason(s) of the differences . Boot DMESG outputs are attached . Compare 'sysctl kern.timecounter'. That's the only difference I could see. Also, I'd try to disable two cores in the bios of the quad-core machine and see if it changes anything. Just to rule out scheduler issues. Have you tried memtest86 to see if RAM throughput and CPU-cache rates are comparable? -Harry I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release i386 to understand whether there is a difference between amd64 and i386 KDE4 execution speeds : The results are as follows : CPU : E2220 Memory : 1 x 2 GB Memory ( slot 0 ) From E2220 computer : Good chip ( Channel A ) 1 x 2 GB Memory ( slot 0 ) From Q6600 computer : Suspected chip ( Channel B ) 2 x 1 GB Memory ( slots 1 ) From Q6600 computer : Suspected chips From startx to ( K ) Symbol : 0+ ( 1 ) minute kern.timecounter.tick: 1 kern.timecounter.choice: TSC-low(1000) i8254(0) ACPI-fast(900) dummy(-100) kern.timecounter.hardware: TSC-low kern.timecounter.stepwarnings: 0 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.mask: 16777215 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.counter: 579674 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.frequency: 3579545 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.quality: 900 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.mask: 65535 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.counter: 51061 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.frequency: 1193182 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.quality: 0 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.mask: 4294967295 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.counter: 1581793778 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.frequency: 9365834 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.quality: 1000 kern.timecounter.smp_tsc: 1 kern.timecounter.invariant_tsc: 1 It is possible to say that the difference is very large : Less than 1 minute versus greater than ( from 8 to 10 ) minutes . In all of my FreeBSD i386 installs , execution was very fast , but I am not installing and using i386 mode . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fwd: Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speed
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Devin Teske devin.te...@fisglobal.comwrote: On Tue, 2012-02-21 at 14:42 -0800, Robison, Dave wrote: Original Message Subject: Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speed Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:39:36 -0500 From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com To: FreeBSD Current curr...@freebsd.org Dear All , Today I have encountered a case which I think informing you about it may be useful . In my previous messages , I have mentioned very slowness of KDE4 . Onto another computer I have installed DruidBSD 9.0 b56 amd64 , and KDE4 . In that installation KDE4 worked surprisingly fast . Great! Glad to hear it's fast! Though, a couple corrections about the statement above. First correction: You meand FreeBSD Druid, not DruidBSD. The FreeBSD Druid is a FreeBSD installer. The DruidBSD is a micro distribution that can't/doesn't install anything. Second correction: The FreeBSD Druid installs a vanilla, completely unmodified RELENG_9_0_RELEASE copy of FreeBSD (albeit using sysinstall(8) instead of bsdinstall(8)). To understand whether difference is among FreeBSD or DruidBSD , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the same computer instead of DruidBSD . The KDE4 has worked flawlesly i.e. , means very fast . Cool. Glad to hear it's fast there too (makes sense; see below) With respect to the binaries that are being laid-down by the FreeBSD Druid, there is no difference in comparison to the official installer. However, the FreeBSD Druid does do some post-install configuration of the system that the official installer does not (though none of these customizations should have any effect on KDE in any way shape-or-form): 1. It enables sshd root login in /etc/ssh/sshd_config 2. It enables netwait in /etc/rc.conf (by adding netwait_enable=YES) 3. It installs perl-5.14 (as a package so if you don't want it, you can pkg_delete it to get rid of it) 4. It sets the root password 5. It installs /usr/local/sbin/host-setup 6. It configures root login-shell to be /usr/local/sbin/host-setup for easy setup on first-login (once exited, must be run manually henceforth) 7. It installs rsync (as a package, so if you don't want it you can pkg_delete it) 8. It installs bonnie (as a package; don't want -- pkg_delete) 9. Enables SU+J on /tmp /var and /usr None of these customizations should have any effect on system performance whatsoever. So I recommend not treating this as a FreeBSD Druid versus FreeBSD problem. NOTE: and again, DruidBSD is not an installable OS, only a micro Live Distribution used for doing rescues or simply booting into a mfs environment. To make equivalent the installations on both computers , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the slow computer exactly as in fast computer . I'm confused. In the immediately-above paragraph you mention a fast computer and a slow computer. But in the paragraphs that proceeded it, I only see mention of fast-running KDE4. If you read the previous paragraphs carefully, you're stating that both installers (FreeBSD Druid and the official, both) produced fast- running installations of KDE4. Which is it? Fast computer means FreeBSD executed KDE4 fast ( having Intel processor E2220 ) , Slow computers means FreeBSD executed KDE4 slow ( having Intel processor Q6600 ) , The problem is not generated by disk layouts , because sysinstall and bsdinstall are NOT factors on the problem : Only physical placement of memory chips in the slots : Rearranging memory chips in the slots or using a different chip set with the same ( brand , model , speed ) is causing the problem or it is curing the problem . Starting times after first boot ( to eliminate initialization effects ) are the following ( All timings are from root ) : Is this on the box that was installed with FreeBSD Druid or box installed with official 9.0-RELEASE media? From startx ( which contains exec ... kde4 ... ) to appearance of KDE menu symbol at the bottom left corner : Fast computer : 8 GB : 0+ ( 1 ) minute ( 4 x 2 GB ) Slow computer : 4 GB : 2+ ( 3 ) minutes ( 2 x 2 GB ) ( 2 x ! GB chips removed ) , 6 GB : 8+ ( 9 ) minutes ( 2 x ( 2 , 1 ) GB ) . ( Memory chip installation conforms to main board manual . ) ( The clock does not have second counter . ) Fast Computer CPU : Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2220 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH Slow Computer CPU : Intel Core 2 QUAD CPU Q6600 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH ( The main boards are the same ) . ( All of the memory chips
Re: Packages for Current ( 10.0 )
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Mark Linimon lini...@lonesome.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:04:45AM -0500, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: I would be very happy I can contribute anything to development of FreeBSD . We are always happy to have help :-) If there appears an agenda of testing problems and explicit instructions how to apply tests , me and other persons may apply them and report the results . Well, there really isn't. There are some regression tests for src, but we have never established a framework to run them all automatically. Perhaps this is something you might be interested in? I am going to prepare a message like a specification for testing framework and send to you . In that framework , I want to adhere the current FreeBSD development ( web sites , available ports / packages , usability of existing testing facilities ) . I am planning to write the specification in such a structure that when a person takes it he/she will be able to generate an applicable project from it . This is not difficult for me because I was a computer science instructor in the University . In a message ( I do not remember its author's name ) it is said that there is no a farm of FreeBSD testing machines . I presume that's now for no? There are several sets. Here's how they are set up. - there is a src tinderbox which continually rebuilds the FreeBSD src tree, for various combinations of architectures and osreleases. (For src, the architectures can be cross-built.) These are intended to sanity-test that src is still buildable; in general the resulting binaries are not made available. - there is a clang buildbot whose purpose is to build FreeBSD src under clang continuously. - various people maintain ports tinderboxes. These are optimized for test-builds of one or at least a subset of the ports tree. In general the resulting binaries are not made available. - there is a new effort, Redports, to assemble a collection of ports tinderbox machines and make them available to interested people. We are actively working on this. - portmgr maintains the pointyhat cluster that do the package builds which are uploaded. These are optimized for building the entire ports tree in a secure fashion; the resulting binaries are made available. We are in the process of getting more machines online. - the pointyhat cluster is also used for -exp runs where portmgr regression-tests proposed changes to the overall ports tree to try to ensure as few regressions for large changes as possible. If we can generate such a testing ecological system , I think , FreeBSD development will benefit from it very much . I agree. But, for src, it's not something that I know much about, and will have to defer to others to comment. mcl At present , there a very valuable efforts for testing FreeBSD as you explained above . My approach will be not only testing the correctness of compilation but also execution correctness . As an example , when a snapshot is downloaded , installed and tried to boot , even it is NOT booting . My goal is to prevent such and other execution failures because every failure is a waste of very valuable human time and other resources . My primary profession ( university graduate subject ) is Mathematics/Statistics/Operations Research . During my undergraduate study I took also many electives from Industrial Engineering such as Motion and Time Study which its subject is to design work procedures that consumption ( such as time , energy , etc. ) is minimum while the outcome ( the amount of work performed , completed ) is maximum . From these points of view , I think , there are possibilities to improve development and wide adoption of FreeBSD which is a direct contribution to humanity welfare . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Packages for Current ( 10.0 )
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Mark Linimon lini...@lonesome.com wrote: The portmgr team has not yet started regular package builds for -current. We are working on re-allocating some resources to be able to do so. Note, however, that with -current being an early branch of a new major version, that the src that we are building against is changing rapidly. My personal recommendation would be that if you want prebuilt packages, you stay with -stable branches, unless you are particularly interested in helping to test the state of -current. mcl I would be very happy I can contribute anything to development of FreeBSD . As I am always writing about importance of testing , in the same manner , I wish to test new developments to help to isolate problems , if I can . If there appears an agenda of testing problems and explicit instructions how to apply tests , me and other persons may apply them and report the results . In a message ( I do not remember its author's name ) it is said that there is no a farm of FreeBSD testing machines . If a web page is designed for testing with the goal and structure as described above it may be very useful and it may off load some tasks directly carried by the developers . Such a help will be very useful because the developers will be able to allocate more time to improve missing features . Please see my message for details : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-performance/2012-January/004536.html I have time and usable computer(s) for testing . I do not know FreeBSD internals very well . I can apply test(s) and report the results . I do not know very well scripting facilities of FreeBSD to design and implement such a testing web site pages and reporting by such scripts , but I can read and apply their instructions . I think that there will be many other volunteers to do such helps . If we can generate such a testing ecological system , I think , FreeBSD development will benefit from it very much . There is some need to include relevant facilities into FreeBSD supplied services , such as possibility of defining distinct monitors for stdin , stdout , stderr , besides serial consoles in loader.conf ; an easy facility to divert outputs of stdout and stderr into files to transmit them to testing site . Generation of XML files to obtain testing results directly processability by scripts , and other required modifications for testing applied promptly . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speed
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Harald Schmalzbauer h.schmalzba...@omnilan.de wrote: schrieb Mehmet Erol Sanliturk am 14.02.2012 15:39 (localtime): Dear All , Today I have encountered a case which I think informing you about it may be useful . In my previous messages , I have mentioned very slowness of KDE4 . Onto another computer I have installed DruidBSD 9.0 b56 amd64 , and KDE4 . In that installation KDE4 worked surprisingly fast . To understand whether difference is among FreeBSD or DruidBSD , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the same computer instead of DruidBSD . The KDE4 has worked flawlesly i.e. , means very fast . To make equivalent the installations on both computers , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the slow computer exactly as in fast computer . Starting times after first boot ( to eliminate initialization effects ) are the following ( All timings are from root ) : From startx ( which contains exec ... kde4 ... ) to appearance of KDE menu symbol at the bottom left corner : Fast computer : 8 GB : 0+ ( 1 ) minute ( 4 x 2 GB ) Slow computer : 4 GB : 2+ ( 3 ) minutes ( 2 x 2 GB ) ( 2 x ! GB chips removed ) , 6 GB : 8+ ( 9 ) minutes ( 2 x ( 2 , 1 ) GB ) . ( Memory chip installation conforms to main board manual . ) ( The clock does not have second counter . ) Fast Computer CPU : Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2220 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH Slow Computer CPU : Intel Core 2 QUAD CPU Q6600 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH ( The main boards are the same ) . ( All of the memory chips are the same : Kingston HyperX 800 MHz ) I could not understand the reason(s) of the differences . Boot DMESG outputs are attached . Compare 'sysctl kern.timecounter'. That's the only difference I could see. Also, I'd try to disable two cores in the bios of the quad-core machine and see if it changes anything. Just to rule out scheduler issues. Have you tried memtest86 to see if RAM throughput and CPU-cache rates are comparable? -Harry I have removed 2 GB memory chips from Q6600. With 2 x 1 GB memory chips , timing is as follows : Q6600 computer : 2 GB : 0+ ( 1 ) minute ( 2 x 1 GB ) when compared to other memory configurations : 4 GB : 2+ ( 3 ) minutes ( 2 x 2 GB ) ( 2 x ! GB chips removed ) , 6 GB : 8+ ( 9 ) minutes ( 2 x ( 2 , 1 ) GB ) . ( Memory chip installation conforms to main board manual . ) ( The clock does not have second counter . ) -- CPU : Q6600 Memory : 2 x 2 GB ( from E2220 computer ) ( slots 0 ) : 2 x 1 GB Memory (slots 1 ) Own chips From startx to ( K ) Symbol : ?+ ( ? ) minutes kern.timecounter.tick: 1 kern.timecounter.choice: TSC-low(1000) i8254(0) ACPI-fast(900) dummy(-100) kern.timecounter.hardware: TSC-low kern.timecounter.stepwarnings: 0 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.mask: 16777215 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.counter: 2208372 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.frequency: 3579545 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.quality: 900 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.mask: 65535 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.counter: 41692 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.frequency: 1193182 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.quality: 0 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.mask: 4294967295 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.counter: 2461358782 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.frequency: 9365823 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.quality: 1000 kern.timecounter.smp_tsc: 1 kern.timecounter.invariant_tsc: 1 --- CPU : Q6600 Memory : 4 x 2 GB ( from E2220 computer ) From startx to ( K ) Symbol : 0+ ( 1 ) minutes kern.timecounter.tick: 1 kern.timecounter.choice: TSC-low(1000) i8254(0) ACPI-fast(900) dummy(-100) kern.timecounter.hardware: TSC-low kern.timecounter.stepwarnings: 0 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.mask: 16777215 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.counter: 10225795 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.frequency: 3579545 kern.timecounter.tc.ACPI-fast.quality: 900 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.mask: 65535 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.counter: 3291 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.frequency: 1193182 kern.timecounter.tc.i8254.quality: 0 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.mask: 4294967295 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.counter: 1168014633 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.frequency: 9365827 kern.timecounter.tc.TSC-low.quality: 1000 kern.timecounter.smp_tsc: 1 kern.timecounter.invariant_tsc: 1 -- From the above values : (1) Scheduling is not effective (2) Memory sizes are not effective . (3) with the same memory chips , behavior of Q6600 and E2220 are similar . -- CPU : E2220 Memory : 2 x 2 GB Memory (slots 0 ) ( From Q6600 computer : Suspected chips ) : 2 x 2 GB Memory (slots 1 ) Own chips From startx to ( K ) Symbol : 0+ ( 1
Effect of Processor and Memory on KDE4 execution speed
Dear All , Today I have encountered a case which I think informing you about it may be useful . In my previous messages , I have mentioned very slowness of KDE4 . Onto another computer I have installed DruidBSD 9.0 b56 amd64 , and KDE4 . In that installation KDE4 worked surprisingly fast . To understand whether difference is among FreeBSD or DruidBSD , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the same computer instead of DruidBSD . The KDE4 has worked flawlesly i.e. , means very fast . To make equivalent the installations on both computers , I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 Release amd64 and KDE4 on the slow computer exactly as in fast computer . Starting times after first boot ( to eliminate initialization effects ) are the following ( All timings are from root ) : From startx ( which contains exec ... kde4 ... ) to appearance of KDE menu symbol at the bottom left corner : Fast computer : 8 GB : 0+ ( 1 ) minute ( 4 x 2 GB ) Slow computer : 4 GB : 2+ ( 3 ) minutes ( 2 x 2 GB ) ( 2 x ! GB chips removed ) , 6 GB : 8+ ( 9 ) minutes ( 2 x ( 2 , 1 ) GB ) . ( Memory chip installation conforms to main board manual . ) ( The clock does not have second counter . ) Fast Computer CPU : Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2220 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH Slow Computer CPU : Intel Core 2 QUAD CPU Q6600 @ 2.40 GHz ( 2397.65-MHz K-8class CPU ) ACPI APIC Table : INTEL DG965WH ( The main boards are the same ) . ( All of the memory chips are the same : Kingston HyperX 800 MHz ) I could not understand the reason(s) of the differences . Boot DMESG outputs are attached . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system process `vnlru' to stop...done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system process `bufdaemon' to stop...done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system process `syncer' to stop... Syncing disks, vnodes remaining...0 0 done All buffers synced. Uptime: 1h17m23s Rebooting... cpu_reset: Stopping other CPUs Copyright (c) 1992-2012 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan 3 07:46:30 UTC 2012 r...@farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2220 @ 2.40GHz (2397.65-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x6fd Family = 6 Model = f Stepping = 13 Features=0xbfebfbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE Features2=0xe39dSSE3,DTES64,MON,DS_CPL,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM AMD Features=0x20100800SYSCALL,NX,LM AMD Features2=0x1LAHF TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB) avail memory = 8163987456 (7785 MB) Event timer LAPIC quality 400 ACPI APIC Table: INTEL DG965WH FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs FreeBSD/SMP: 1 package(s) x 2 core(s) cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 ioapic0: Changing APIC ID to 2 ioapic0 Version 2.0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 acpi0: INTEL DG965WH on motherboard acpi0: Power Button (fixed) Timecounter ACPI-fast frequency 3579545 Hz quality 900 acpi_timer0: 24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x408-0x40b on acpi0 cpu0: ACPI CPU on acpi0 cpu1: ACPI CPU on acpi0 acpi_button0: Sleep Button on acpi0 pcib0: ACPI Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: ACPI PCI bus on pcib0 vgapci0: VGA-compatible display port 0x3410-0x3417 mem 0xe020-0xe02f,0xd000-0xdfff irq 16 at device 2.0 on pci0 agp0: Intel G965 SVGA controller on vgapci0 agp0: aperture size is 256M, detected 7676k stolen memory pci0: simple comms at device 3.0 (no driver attached) em0: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Connection 7.2.3 port 0x30e0-0x30ff mem 0xe030-0xe031,0xe0324000-0xe0324fff irq 20 at device 25.0 on pci0 em0: Using an MSI interrupt em0: Ethernet address: 00:1c:c0:1e:c3:90 uhci0: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-D port 0x30c0-0x30df irq 16 at device 26.0 on pci0 uhci0: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus0: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-D on uhci0 uhci1: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-E port 0x30a0-0x30bf irq 21 at device 26.1 on pci0 uhci1: LegSup = 0x2f00 usbus1: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB controller USB-E on uhci1 ehci0: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB 2.0 controller USB2-B mem 0xe0325c00-0xe0325fff irq 18 at device 26.7 on pci0 usbus2: EHCI version 1.0 usbus2: Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB 2.0 controller USB2-B on ehci0 hdac0: Intel 82801H High Definition Audio Controller mem 0xe032-0xe0323fff irq 22 at device 27.0 on pci0 pcib1: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 28.0 on pci0 pci1: ACPI PCI bus on pcib1 pcib2: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 28.1 on pci0 pci2: ACPI PCI bus on pcib2 atapci0: Marvell 88SX6101
Packages for Current ( 10.0 )
Dear All , At present , ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-10-current/ is empty , and , http://pub.allbsd.org/FreeBSD-snapshots/ amd64 , head is prepared without ports.txz . To download a snapshot and test Current ( 10.0 ) , without ports seems to be not possible . Which ports can be used for Current ( 10.0 ) for X , Gnome , KDE , etc . ? Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.orgwrote: On 12/29/11 06:52, John Baldwin wrote: On Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:32:52 pm Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. I think Doug is worried that the list will just get longer, and I agree. Bits rot faster once they aren't part of the build. It is easy to delete sysinstall or trim it, it is not easy to resurrect it. Personally, the one time I used bsdinstall recently I found it to be a bit uneven, and not really a step forward for a new user compared to the standard install mode of sysinstall. It's biggest win is it's ability to do more disk configurations, but it seemed less user-friendly in almost every other regard (and even the disk editor seemd less user-friendly even if it had more functionality). I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. -Nathan I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 release candidates by using bsdinstall . I have selected only guided hard disk setup by selecting all defaults . For a less experienced person , by selecting the only defaults , and giving root password , a single user definition is sufficient to a successful install . With this structure of bsdinstall , I think , it is very well designed and expertly implemented . My suggestion would be , for immediate adjustment , after selecting REBOOT , since installer may know that install is from CD/DVD , may unmount CD/DVD , warn the user to remove CD/DVD , and request press a key to continue for booting . Since this part is missing , it is becoming necessary to enter a race between the user and the computer to find an interval to eject CD/DVD before captured by the BIOS . I did not use USB for install . I do not know how it is handled , but unmounting and extracting the USB stick and pressing a key to continue is also will be useful , if it is not already like that . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Looking to start Testing 10-current on Vbox
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:20 AM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, list, mailing l...@sprymed.com wrote: I'm looking to start testing 10 on my own. I went to: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/ Last update was 201107 Strange. Where do I get the Current snapshot of 10. (Or do I upgrade from 9.0-RC2)? You need up build from source. Information for doing so is available here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/makeworld.html Sorry for my short email - but I should be asleep now ;) -- Eitan Adler http://pub.allbsd.org/FreeBSD-snapshots/ Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CVS removal from the base
On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote: The problem I have with all of this is pretty simple. With the CVS in base, it's treated like the (mostly) rest of the system in a stable release - ie, people don't simply keep updating it to the latest and greatest without some testing. If there are any critical bugs or security flaws, they're backported. The port isn't upgraded unless it has to be, and then if it's a major update, there are plenty of eyeballs to review it. It's in /src, after all. But with ports, the ports tree only has the latest version or two; sometimes a few major versions to choose from (eg apache), but we don't maintain the same kind of package versions that Linux operating system packages do. So it's entirely possible the CVS port maintainer updates the port to the latest and greatest, which works for him - and it breaks someone's older CVS repository somehow. I'd be happier with the idea of things moving into ports if the ports tree did have stable snapshots which had incremental patches for bug/security fixes, rather than upgrade to whatever the port maintainer chooses. I'm all for change, but it seems those pushing forward change seem to be far exceeding the comfortable level of more conservative people; or those with real needs. Those who have relied on FreeBSD's stable release source tree being that - stable - whilst ports moves along with the latest and greatest as needed. It doesn't matter that you may do a fantastic job with a stable CVS port - what matters is how people perceive what you're doing. It just takes one perceived screwup here for the view to shift that freebsd is going the way of linux. And then we lose a whole lot of what public good opinion FreeBSD has. ;-) 2c, Adrian Over the years , by installing and studying many operating system distributions , my opinions for FreeBSD has been converged toward the following : Supplying only a console-mode FreeBSD as a release is making FreeBSD unusable for peoples who they are not computing experts . To allow less experienced people to use FreeBSD easily , it is necessary to include a selected ports/packages into release distributions , therefore into so-called BASE as a /ports or /packages part . When a new FreeBSD release will be installed , it is becoming necessary to install many packages additionally , and setting many parameters in the *.conf , etc. , files to make it usable . One unfortunate situation is that some packages are NOT working at the release moment . In the packages tree , it seems that there is no any regular update policy for a specific release . It is possible to make port_name , but this is NOT so much usable also : For a specific package , which is installing within less than 30 minutes by pkg_add , required more than eighteen hours by make ... . Reason was that MAKE is an extremely STUPID system ( without BRAIN ) because , it is NOT able to remember that it has completed making a package part a few seconds before , and it is starting the same steps to apply up to the point that it is not necessary to make it once more ( after applying many steps which was applied before ) . One immediate reaction to such an idea is to mention PC-BSD . If the PC-BSD is the solution , what is the reason of maintaining a large FreeBSD ports tree and consuming a huge amount of efforts to manage a so large repository ? Another possibility is FreeBSD/Debian combination . When compared to Linux/Debian , it is unusable also , because , I do NOT know the reason , it is VERY slow . I am NOT suggesting to include as many packages as possible : Just an OPTIMUM number of packages to allow the users to have a working installation out of the box . It is possible to obtain an idea if there is a statistics set about downloaded packages by pkg_add . After setting a percentage to satisfy user needs , it will be easy to make a list of packages to include . Even myself I am NOT using FreeBSD , because I am NOT able to use it : For example , 9.0 RC2 : There is NO KDE4 at this moment , KDE3 is NOT working , GNOME2 is NOT working , the others I am NOT using because they are not capable as much as KDE or GNOME . If such a selected packages maintained within BASE /ports , or /packages , there will NOT be such difficulties to use the FreeBSD ( difficulty is transferred from the user to FreeBSD teams ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CVS removal from the base
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Diane Bruce d...@db.net wrote: On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 04:27:34PM +0700, Max Khon wrote: Hello! ... As soon as ports/ (and doc/) are moved to SVN I do not see any compelling reasons for keeping CVS in the base system. Well. We _could_ replace it with SCCS. -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db Why leave money to our children if we don't leave them the Earth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_Code_Control_System Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD ftp mirror sites and pkg_add
band width usage . Then any cost is saved may be transferred to projects to improve FreeBSD features . . I do NOT know such suggestions are irritative or useful , because sometimes it is possible to hear that if you do ( or can ) not supply a patch , then shut up , ... , shut up ( where shut up , ... , shut up is from Titanic is sinking ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Use of newest version number such as 10.0 instead of current
Dear all , Instead of using Current and then renaming everything for a new version number , is it not possible to use the newest version number in place of Current when it is branched . Such a change will prevent unnecessary renaming problems . For everyone , it i very easy to understand that 10.0 is the latest , therefore the current one . The current may be used as a symbolic link to the newest version number , such as used by Debian . For example , for FreeBSD 9.0 RC1 , the ports directory name was ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-9-current/Latest/ which is NOT available now , and pkg_add -r * is giving error about directory not found . This is preventing testing and / or using efforts . I know , it is possible to rename local link names , but everyone is not so much knowledgeable . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Use of newest version number such as 10.0 instead of current
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, November 11, 2011 07:29:46 AM Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: -(snipped stuff)- This is preventing testing and / or using efforts . I know , it is possible to rename local link names , but everyone is not so much knowledgeable . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Quite honestly, if someone isn't that knowledgeable, then they probably shouldn't be running current. In fact, the handbook even states that. I don't really see an issue here. -current is a bleeding edge development release, that must be built from source, and SHOULD always point to the latest source code. My sentence is NOT about Current , but 9.0 RC1 . Perhaps , you will NOT say , if a person is NOT knowledgeable , he should NOT use 9.0 RC1 . If you are using pkg_add -r pkgname to install software, on anything but release versions, you should expect breakage. If you do not wish to build from source, then you should probably stick to release versions. Chuck Burns Up to now , my most disappointed situation is that , there is NO any tendency to lower required expertise level to use FreeBSD . Such an approach is confining FreeBSD to a small number of elite users when compared to millions of Linux users let alone hundred millions of some other operating systems which they are approaching to billions when version users are summed in spite of paying money also . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Use of newest version number such as 10.0 instead of current
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Benjamin Kaduk ka...@mit.edu wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: Dear all , Instead of using Current and then renaming everything for a new version number , is it not possible to use the newest version number in place of Current when it is branched . Such a change will prevent unnecessary renaming problems . For everyone , it i very easy to understand that 10.0 is the latest , therefore the current one . The current may be used as a symbolic link to the newest version number , such as used by Debian . For example , for FreeBSD 9.0 RC1 , the ports directory name was ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-9-current/Latest/ which is NOT available now , and pkg_add -r * is giving error about directory not found . This is preventing testing and / or using efforts . I know , it is possible to rename local link names , but everyone is not so much knowledgeable . I'm not sure I understand your proposal. In a month (er, two. well, maybe three) when 9.0 is released, do you propose that the svn HEAD be called: (a) 10.0 (b) 9-CURRENT (c) CURRENT (d) something else I do not realy care for either (a) or (b), since (a) would imply that the version is not changing, even as incompatible KBI/ABI changes are made. Likewise for (b), once the KBI/ABI changes, HEAD is decidedly no longer a form of '9'. -Ben Kaduk During development of Version 9 , the name of directory was ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-9-current/Latest/ During the 9.0 Release RC1 , the above name was used . Before releasing the 9.0 Release RC2 , the above has been changed . This change has broke the links in 9.0 Release RC1 . When we look at the ftp sites ( including mirrors ) all of them has changed . This naming structure is requiring re-structuring all of the directories over all ftp , and other sites . This is a wasted effort . Instead of doing this , a scheme like the following may be used : Instead of using /*-9-Current/ , use 10.0 for current . Assume our main directory is the following : ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ As next directory , use 8.1 , 8.2 , 9.0 for current . ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/8.1/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/8.2/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/ All of the directories , for example , ... ports ... release ... snapshot ... whatever is related to 8.2 , 9.0 will be under 8.2 or 9.0 , in such a way that nowhere else a directory with name , for example , 9.0 will exist ... For example : ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/ports/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/packages/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/snapshot/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/release/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/stable/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/doc/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/doc/handbook/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/9.0/amd64/doc/man/ Explain to the people that 9.0 is the Development branch , NOT for production use . A single sentence to learn . Another step may be to insert an explicit warning message into current motd file about Development status of 9.0 . When time comes to make a release of 9.0 , which a new development branch will be generated , take a copy of 9.0 , and rename this directory as 10.0 . By using suitable find/replace scripts , find all occurrences of 9.0 with strict match and replace them by 10.0 . After generating directory 10.0 , propagate it to mirrors . Please , notice that , NOTHING is changed for the 9.0 , and NOTHING is broken with respect to generation of a new branch , all over the world Then start to work on 10.0 ... Continue in that way . Apply the similar steps to 9.0 for 9.1 : Take a copy of 9.0 , rename it as 9.1 , ... Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 9.0 amd64 RC1 and KDE4
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Alberto Villa avi...@freebsd.org wrote: On Thursday 27 October 2011 02:34:11 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: In a message previously I mentioned the KDE4 problem for 8.2 amd64 Release , but that message even did not receive a single reply . Things just may get lost, sorry. Install X . Install KDE4 . Login to console . Without an .xinitrc file , and unmodified /etc/ttys file , execute startx . ( Do not start KDE4 directly . ) In right xterm window of X , execute /usr/local/kde4/bin/startkde ( /usr/local/kde4/bin is not in path definition ) . Done. Then , I do not know , but , even this will supply much information about what is going problematic . Correction of first displayed errors and continuing in that way , will solve the problems one by one . I see several kinds of messages: - kcheckrunning not found in PATH... this can indeed be fixed, and I'll do it, but it's harmless; - logs of activity... they're expected; - the KSharedDataCache one, ensure this partition..., is harmless (I'll patch kdelibs to hide this as it's causing a lot of misunderstandings... and maybe I'll just make it work on 9.x and 10.x); - messages about Soprano/Akonadi/Virtuoso not being started... I guess it's because they still have to start, and sure enough they disappear after a while, and Akonadi/Nepomuk seem to work; - X errors... well, they're due to my driver. Apart from this, Plasma Desktop starts successfully, Amarok can play music... In short, my session is fully restored. Apart from KWin, but a kwin --replace would be needed for this. If KDE4 is starting directly , during waiting after display of hard disk symbol , discontinuation of X with Ctrl-Alt-F1 will reveal some messages , but last ones . Therefore , the above method is better than that second method . I don't understand what starting directly means. Anyway, if you see the same messages, there's nothing wrong here as well. -- Alberto Villa, FreeBSD committer avi...@freebsd.org http://people.FreeBSD.org/~avilla Starting directly KDE4 means , inserting into ~/.xinitrc , the statement exec /usr/local/kde4/bin/startkde and then use startx after login in the console . The problem caused by the messages is at least the time used to generate them . Starting of KDE4 or its parts are taking a long time with respect to other system KDE4 start up times which is actually unacceptable or unusable . ( My ADSL line was broken at the ISP side since October , 27 . Today it has started to work . ) Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD 9.0 amd64 RC1 and KDE4
The KDE4 in FreeBSD 9.0 RC1 amd64 is generating enormous amount of error messages during usage ( not visible on screen , but seen after Ctrl-Alt-F1 discontinuation of X ) . This is making it extremely slow which may be considered to be practically unusable . Actually parts are working generally but every step is waiting so much that such a usage is not practically applicable . The KDE4 in FreeBSD 9.0 RC1 i386 is working satisfactorily , but for memory requirements , it is not an alternative . There are important usability differences between both architectures with respect to KDE4 execution . One alternative is mentioned as PC-BSD , but installation of PC-BSD is NOT possible : In PC-BSD 8.2 amd64 Release and following snapshot(s) , within 18 ( eighteen ) hours , only a small percent ( less than % 10 ) could be installed . Now , in PC-BSD 9.0 RC1 amd64 , I am still waiting : In 4 ( four ) hours it could come to Installing Meta Package : base-system . Such an installation structure is really unusable . I will discontinue it because it seems that complete install will require many days with that speed . I am continuously installing many other distributions which mostly they are consuming time around thirty minutes ( except upgrade during installation , if it is selected ) . Thirty minutes may be considered an acceptable duration for installation , let's say , time less than one hour as endurable . It should not be forgotten that , the task is copy of approximately 4 Giga Bytes to hard disk from a DVD-Rom with an additional decompressing of files . Therefore , for the KDE4 users in the amd64 platform , there is a big problem . This was also the case for 8.2 amd64 Release . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 9.0 amd64 RC1 and KDE4
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Alberto Villa avi...@freebsd.org wrote: On Thursday 27 October 2011 01:09:25 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: The KDE4 in FreeBSD 9.0 RC1 amd64 is generating enormous amount of error messages during usage ( not visible on screen , but seen after Ctrl- Alt-F1 discontinuation of X ) . This is making it extremely slow which may be considered to be practically unusable . Actually parts are working generally but every step is waiting so much that such a usage is not practically applicable . You didn't say anything about those error messages, though. It might come useful. We keep trying to improve the situation thanks to reports from our users. Therefore , for the KDE4 users in the amd64 platform , there is a big problem . This was also the case for 8.2 amd64 Release . Actually, you're the first one to report such a problem. If this was also the case for 8.2 you could have said it earlier. Any chance to get some help from you to investigate the issue? -- Alberto Villa, FreeBSD committer avi...@freebsd.org http://people.FreeBSD.org/~avilla Man who arrives at party two hours late will find he has been beaten to the punch. In a message previously I mentioned the KDE4 problem for 8.2 amd64 Release , but that message even did not receive a single reply . Always I may help with pleasure , but I do not know how . I think the problem is not related to hardware because i386 KDE4 is working very well . On the same computer , there are four hard disks , and each disk has a different operating system , mostly 64 bit ones . All of them using KDE4 and working very well . If you consider useful , my ideas are following : During start-up of KDE4 , screen is painted with its wall paper only . Since X is already running , it is possible to open a window and display messages on it with possible saving to a text file . This file may be transmitted to experts for possible studies . At present , monitors are cheap . I want to install multiple monitors on the same computer to watch serial console output on a regular ( VGA ) monitor ( because in market , there is NO any serial console on sale in computer shops ( I am in Turkey )) . Really , I do not know how to implement a regular ( VGA ) computer instead of a serial console . A very good application in FreeBSD may be to allow such a multiple monitor definition during install and use them for virtual terminals simultaneously . Using a second computer for serial console is not very practical due to software and hardware problems . If you know my actual problem , you may understand me better . I am writing a multimedia information management system as continuation of my PhD thesis feasibility demonstration program . Due to health problems it is progressing very slowly . My primary aim is to base it on a free , permissive , open source operating system . My program , with a freely usable version , will be closed source ( for sale , if I can do ) . I need a permissive ( BSD like licensed ) operating system , because a data base without operating system support can not be secure in itself . Unfortunately , I am using Pascal only , Fortran for scientific programming and very rarely C , ( with a knowledge of other many programming languages ) . I want to start on working internal structure of an operating system . Linux is NOT usable due to GPL . Minix ( does not have a capable Pascal ) , Haiku , are not sufficiently mature . NetBSD , OpenBSD , DragonFlyBSD are not better than FreeBSD . OpenSolaris died , OpenIndiana is using copyright dependent parts . The most viable selection is FreeBSD for 64 bits ... In such an environment , usability of multiple terminals ( monitors ) simultaneously as distinct display areas with output direction possibility via parameter files would be very useful . Assume values are written into distinct files , where files are monitors . Not only for my own benefits , also for contribution to humanity ( My main hobby was to write mathematical analysis programs to support researches , with very hard work : Conclusion : My wife had divorced me with a complaint that I am studying very much , occupying home with computers , etc. ) , I always wish to make contributions to FreeBSD because of its very good license ( even commercial companies may use it freely which is a very good decision for me ) and its high quality . To test the KDE4 in FreeBSD 9.0 amd64 RC1 , you can do the following : Install X . Install KDE4 . Login to console . Without an .xinitrc file , and unmodified /etc/ttys file , execute startx . ( Do not start KDE4 directly . ) In right xterm window of X , execute /usr/local/kde4/bin/startkde ( /usr/local/kde4/bin is not in path definition ) . In that terminal , you will see a lot of messages . After display of messages , a form will appear to display KDE4 . Then , I do not know , but , even this will supply much information about what is going problematic
