On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:42:48 +0200
Guido Falsi via freebsd-current wrote:
> On 12/10/21 14:21, Gary Jennejohn wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 06:59:00 -0400
> > grarpamp wrote:
> >
> >>> No. The system shell is supposed to make the system usable
> >>> by the users. Actually, the real problem
On 12/10/21 14:21, Gary Jennejohn wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 06:59:00 -0400
grarpamp wrote:
No. The system shell is supposed to make the system usable
by the users. Actually, the real problem is that the easiest way
to shoot one's own foot is by changing the language (say, the
shell) spoken
On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 06:59:00 -0400
grarpamp wrote:
> > No. The system shell is supposed to make the system usable
> > by the users. Actually, the real problem is that the easiest way
> > to shoot one's own foot is by changing the language (say, the
> > shell) spoken by default by FreeBSD.
>
>
> No. The system shell is supposed to make the system usable
> by the users. Actually, the real problem is that the easiest way
> to shoot one's own foot is by changing the language (say, the
> shell) spoken by default by FreeBSD.
Well, the FreeBSD system speaks sh for its own use, this is
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, Hans Ottevanger wrote:
[snip]
> While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to something more
> sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there since 4.2BSD, but the
> reference to a long forgotten baseball player is probably lost by now. Also, a
>
On 2021-09-22 11:32:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 05:19:38AM -0400, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current
wrote:
Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example typing
part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on history)
No, this
In message <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wf...@aniel.nours.eu>, Baptiste
Daroussin
writes:
> Hello,
>
> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>
> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusin
> g
> as a default shell for many as all other unix
It looks like every time I correct an error, someone tries to hack my account…
odd.
> On Sep 29, 2021, at 3:40 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> The system shell really only need to support the
> language of the shipped scripts of the base tooling
> such as rc subsystem.
No. The system shell is supposed
The system shell really only need to support the
language of the shipped scripts of the base tooling
such as rc subsystem.
If those were someday written in Greek, then the shell
serves alone, the most common expectation of any "unix"
to have there seems to be an "sh", from which users can
further
On 23/09/2021 10:55, Hans Ottevanger wrote:
As you mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in scripts is not affected by these changes. And
for interactive use it could be a POLA violation, but the astonishment would be a positive one.
Unfortunately, the switch from csh to sh is going to
> On Sep 27, 2021, at 5:11 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
> Dirk Meyer:
>
>> Migration of aliase will be painful as ">&" and "|&" is not supoported.
>
> cshsh
>> & foo >foo 2>&1
> |& foo 2>&1 | foo
>
Actually, the man page of csh says that this part isn't
Dirk Meyer:
> Migration of aliase will be painful as ">&" and "|&" is not supoported.
csh sh
>& foo >foo 2>&1
|& foo 2>&1 | foo
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Hans Petter Selasky wrote on 23/9/21 5:55 pm:
I've always used "tcsh" for root. The little help you get on the command
line to search and repeat commands is very useful compared to plain "sh".
+1
Dirk Meyer wrote:
>Baptiste Daroussin schrieb:,
[stuff snipped]
>
>We have already "toor" for sh.
As an aside, I will note that having multiple passwd entries for the same uid
somewhat
breaks the mapping done by nfsuserd(8), since it will map the uid to one of the
names.
It is not a big issue,
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:36:45AM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> Hello,
>
> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>
> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing
> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne
On 9/22/21 8:52 AM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
>>> I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor'
>>> from the
>>> default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably
>>> prefer
memory should have entered into place, being fully
> filled and then
> the process will be killed. And just to be complete, the non-debuggability of
> LLVM were
> a known problem of LLVM by the time of the discussions that lead to it's
> import in the
> tree.
And, by mentioning pr
> On Sep 22, 2021, at 5:38 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (…)
I'm used to see FreeBSD remembered as a traditional OS full of professionalism
and open to innovation. The front door for the BSD world and an OS that doesn't
copy Linux. But
On 2021-09-23 09:40, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz>:
> On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote:
>>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE
...
Whoever wants is free to add other users with root pemissions is free
to do
I'd say, leave it as it is.
People are used to it since over 30 years.
Where does it hurt?
regards,
chris
> On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> >
> > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
> > confusing
> > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne
On 2021-09-23 09:40:50, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
Those who DO like it changed, have already made changes to have it
changed, so changing the default only adds to work for both parties, to
me a net loss.
Aren't you forgetting about someone?
>
> Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz>:
>
> > On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote:
> >>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD
> >>> 14.0-RELEASE
> >>
> >> Make it so.
> >>
> >> The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of
> >> sh, not
On 2021-09-23 02:29, Mike Bristow wrote:
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:00:49AM -0300, Renato Botelho wrote:
+1 for keeping this behavior on default config
-1 for this.
Things should be as default-as-possible, so that the behaviour of
/bin/sh as root on FreeBSD is unsuprising to someone used to
On 2021-09-23 01:55, Hans Ottevanger wrote:
On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
confusing
as a default shell for many as all other unix like
Gary Jennejohn wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT)
> "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:
>
> > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
> > > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:00:49AM -0300, Renato Botelho wrote:
> +1 for keeping this behavior on default config
-1 for this.
Things should be as default-as-possible, so that the behaviour of
/bin/sh as root on FreeBSD is unsuprising to someone used to /bin/sh
on other systems or users, because
On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing
as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell
compatible interactive
On 23/09/2021 10:13, Rolf M. Dietze wrote:
Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz>:
On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote:
propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD
14.0-RELEASE
Make it so.
The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of
sh, not
Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz>:
On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote:
propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE
Make it so.
The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of
sh, not csh.
So this is a good compatibility,
Hi,
I've always used "tcsh" for root. The little help you get on the command
line to search and repeat commands is very useful compared to plain "sh".
Sorry for top-posting.
--HPS
On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote:
propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE
Make it so.
The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of sh, not csh.
So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update,
needed for
+100 for keeping this behavior on default config ;-)
On 22/09/21 15:00, Renato Botelho wrote:
> +1 for keeping this behavior on default config
>
> On 22/09/21 06:19, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote:
>> Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example
>> typing part of
Jan Beich writes:
> grarpamp writes:
>
>> BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of
>> its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make.
>> Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups,
>> if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features.
>
>
grarpamp writes:
> BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of
> its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make.
> Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups,
> if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features.
Like
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:03:40PM +0200, Alban Hertroys wrote:
>
> > On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>
> (…)
>
> > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in
> >
On 2021-09-22 12:26, Marek Zarychta wrote:
W dniu 22.09.2021 o 19:46, Warner Losh pisze:
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote:
On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the default
> On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> Hello,
>
> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>
>
> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose
> to
> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not
> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE
Make it so.
The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of sh, not csh.
So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update,
needed for decades.
Even "bash" is a majority
> On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
(…)
> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in
> interactive mode:
> * command completion (thanks pstef@)
> * improvement in the emacs
W dniu 22.09.2021 o 19:46, Warner Losh pisze:
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>>>
>>> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD,
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> >
> > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
> > confusing
> > as a default
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT)
"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
> > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> > > >
> > > >
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote:
> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> >
> > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
> confusing
> > as a default shell for
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
> > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> > >
> > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
> > > confusing
>
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
> >
> > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
> > confusing
> > as a default
On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing
as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell
compatible interactive
+1 for keeping this behavior on default config
On 22/09/21 06:19, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote:
Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example
typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on
history)
On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste
On 2021-09-22 10:36:45, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in
interactive mode:
* command completion (thanks pstef@)
* improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells
* improvement in the vi mode (in
>
> Chris Stephan
>
> Sent from FreeBSD
>
> From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org
> on behalf of Baptiste Daroussin
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM
> To: curr...@freebsd.org ; a...@freebsd.org
>
> Subject: [
on
behalf of Baptiste Daroussin
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM
To: curr...@freebsd.org ; a...@freebsd.org
Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the default root shell
W dniu 22.09.2021 o 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin pisze:
> Hello,
>
> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>
> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing
> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell
>
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 05:19:38AM -0400, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current
wrote:
> Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example typing
> part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on history)
No, this is a csh specific behaviour. (not it can probably
Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example
typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on
history)
On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the
Hello,
TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing
as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell
compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh.
Recently our
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