Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread CeDeROM
Hello :-)

I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
situation is following:

1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
by Xorg at startup.

Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
the Xorg project! :-)

Best regards :-)
Tomek

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
On Nov 6, 2012 10:58 PM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote:

 Hi,
 Reference:
  From: CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl
  Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:14:03 +0100
  Message-id:   CAFYkXjnRzPAkNuc5C0iTNUTe5j=
 h8ga9vwme+trdng_kyjc...@mail.gmail.com

 CeDeROM wrote:
  I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
  but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
  restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
 
  In the xorg.conf:
  Section InputDevice
   Identifier Mouse0
   Driver mouse
   Option Protocol auto
   Option Device /dev/sysmouse
   Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
  EndSection

 Inside
 Section ServerLayout
 Just after
 InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer
 Append
 Option  AllowEmptyInput False

 Cheers,
 Julian
 --
 Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich
 http://berklix.com
  Reply below not above, like a play script.  Indent old text with  .
  Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64,
 quoted-printable.
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Boris Samorodov
08.11.2012 12:46, CeDeROM пишет:

 With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg

Do you mean that if xorg-server is compiled with hal but you do not
launch it at startup mouse and keyboard does not work? If yes, I'd
say that this is a bit... expected. ;-)

-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Julian H. Stacey
CeDeROM wrote:
 --e89a8f22bd09d504cdf7def8
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 Hello :-)
 
 I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)
 
 With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
 situation is following:
 
 1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
 option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
 2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
 Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
 hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
 xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
 by Xorg at startup.
 
 Thank you for this hint! 

Someone before saved me just the same :-)


 This could be added to the handbook :-)

Yes, If you run send-pr Or http://www.freebsd.org/support/bugreports.htm
that would get it in handbook for release users.


 also send-pr to ask for/ or better submit a patch to code not just doc,
for people running /pub/FreeBSD/branches/-current/ports/x11-servers/xorg-server
(with Makefile containing   MAINTAINER= x...@freebsd.org)


 AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
 the Xorg project! :-)

Xorg will have newer X sources than FreeBSD,  Xorg will be targeting many
OS's with different defaults of On/ Off for support daemons,
So that cobweb of what they might assume a consistent set of defaults,
is probably best pursued between people on x...@freebsd.org  Xorg.

But yes, certainly FreeBSD should itself have a consistent set that install
 work Without hand editing.

 
 Best regards :-)
 Tomek
 
 --
 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
 On Nov 6, 2012 10:58 PM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote:
 
  Hi,
  Reference:
   From: CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl
   Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:14:03 +0100
   Message-id:   CAFYkXjnRzPAkNuc5C0iTNUTe5j=
  h8ga9vwme+trdng_kyjc...@mail.gmail.com
 
  CeDeROM wrote:
   I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
   but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
   restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
  
   In the xorg.conf:
   Section InputDevice
Identifier Mouse0
Driver mouse
Option Protocol auto
Option Device /dev/sysmouse
Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
   EndSection
 
  Inside
  Section ServerLayout
  Just after
  InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer
  Append
  Option  AllowEmptyInput False
 
  Cheers,
  Julian

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com
 Reply below not above, like a play script.  Indent old text with  .
 Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread CeDeROM
I was using xorg from package so it is default configuration, which is
built with Hal support because it can make use of it I guess...

The more important thing is that Xorg starts without autodetecting input
devices by default.

Maybe this is caused by Hal support being compiled in. This might implict
using Hal for devices detection and disabling detection by Xorg. Xorg
detection can be enforced by disabling empty input in that case.

Disabling empty input shloud be a default for Xorg IMO...

Best regards :-)
Tomek

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
On Nov 8, 2012 10:01 AM, Boris Samorodov b...@passap.ru wrote:

 08.11.2012 12:46, CeDeROM пишет:

  With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg

 Do you mean that if xorg-server is compiled with hal but you do not
 launch it at startup mouse and keyboard does not work? If yes, I'd
 say that this is a bit... expected. ;-)

 --
 WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
 FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Warren Block

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
situation is following:

1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
by Xorg at startup.


No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it 
has been removed from later xorg-server releases.


Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to 
detect input devices.



Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
the Xorg project! :-)


Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL 
option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Ian Lepore
On Thu, 2012-11-08 at 08:45 -0700, Warren Block wrote:
 On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:
 
  I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)
 
  With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
  situation is following:
 
  1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
  option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
  2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
  Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
  hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
  xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
  by Xorg at startup.
 
 No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it 
 has been removed from later xorg-server releases.

This is disturbing news.  We build embedded systems at work that use X
for presentation and have no input devices.  I understand that
AllowEmptyInput is inappropriate to work around the problem we're
discussing here, but that doesn't mean it's never needed.

 Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to 
 detect input devices.
 
  Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
  AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
  the Xorg project! :-)
 
 Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL 
 option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.

So if you're using xorg-server that was built with hal included (maybe
because you're more a package than a ports kind of person and have no
control over the build), is AutoAddDevices still the right option to
manipulate?  That is, will it disable the use of hal and fall back to
honoring the xorg.conf input devices even if the server was built with
hal support?

-- Ian


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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Richard Kuhns
On 11/08/12 10:45, Warren Block wrote:
 On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:
 
 I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

 With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
 situation is following:

 1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
 option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
 2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
 Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
 hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
 xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
 by Xorg at startup.
 
 No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it 
 has been removed from later xorg-server releases.
 
 Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to 
 detect input devices.
 
 Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
 AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
 the Xorg project! :-)
 
 Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL 
 option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.
 ___
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Just a comment: according to http://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox, Hal is still
required for VirtualBox in order to have host DVD/CD access.

-- 
Richard Kuhns r...@wintek.com My Desk:  765-269-8541
Wintek Corporation Internet Support: 765-269-8503
427 N 6th Street STE C Consulting:   765-269-8504
Lafayette, IN 47901-2211   Accounting:   765-269-8502
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Chuck Burns

On 11/8/2012 10:58 AM, Richard Kuhns wrote:

On 11/08/12 10:45, Warren Block wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
situation is following:

1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
by Xorg at startup.


No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it
has been removed from later xorg-server releases.

Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to
detect input devices.


Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
the Xorg project! :-)


Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL
option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.
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Just a comment: according to http://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox, Hal is still
required for VirtualBox in order to have host DVD/CD access.



Doesn't mean xorg-server needs hal.  Build xorg-server without hal 
support... install hald for virtualbox. Everything still works as it 
should... In the meantime, someone should probably write a 
devd-udisks[12] translation daemon.. for things like gnome, kde, xfce, 
and virtualbox, which have the udisks linuxisms can actually continue to 
work in the future..


I'd do it if I had any coding skills... I left those behind when I sold 
my Commodore64. :P


--
Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Tomek CEDRO
WARNING!!!

When AllowEmptyInput = False AND Hal is running really really bad things
happen to Xorg!! Keys are messed up and screen is refreshed only after
mouse move! Things are slow and the end of the word is near :-)

AllowEmptyInput seems to be exclusive with Hal!!

Please confirm :-)

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
 On Nov 8, 2012 2:29 PM, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:

 I was using xorg from package so it is default configuration, which is
 built with Hal support because it can make use of it I guess...

 The more important thing is that Xorg starts without autodetecting input
 devices by default.

 Maybe this is caused by Hal support being compiled in. This might implict
 using Hal for devices detection and disabling detection by Xorg. Xorg
 detection can be enforced by disabling empty input in that case.

 Disabling empty input shloud be a default for Xorg IMO...

 Best regards :-)
 Tomek

 --
 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
 On Nov 8, 2012 10:01 AM, Boris Samorodov b...@passap.ru wrote:

 08.11.2012 12:46, CeDeROM пишет:

  With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg

 Do you mean that if xorg-server is compiled with hal but you do not
 launch it at startup mouse and keyboard does not work? If yes, I'd
 say that this is a bit... expected. ;-)

 --
 WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
 FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve


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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread CeDeROM
Yes, Hal is also required for other applications to detect hardware (i.e.
KDE). This is pretty nice feature for desktop environment, maybe unwanted
to embedded or dedicated system :-)

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
On Nov 8, 2012 5:59 PM, Richard Kuhns r...@wintek.com wrote:

 On 11/08/12 10:45, Warren Block wrote:
  On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:
 
  I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)
 
  With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
  situation is following:
 
  1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
  option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
  2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
  Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
  hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
  xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input
 deviced
  by Xorg at startup.
 
  No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it
  has been removed from later xorg-server releases.
 
  Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to
  detect input devices.
 
  Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
  AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it
 to
  the Xorg project! :-)
 
  Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL
  option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.
  ___
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 freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
 

 Just a comment: according to http://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox, Hal is
 still
 required for VirtualBox in order to have host DVD/CD access.

 --
 Richard Kuhns r...@wintek.com My Desk:  765-269-8541
 Wintek Corporation Internet Support: 765-269-8503
 427 N 6th Street STE C Consulting:   765-269-8504
 Lafayette, IN 47901-2211   Accounting:   765-269-8502

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Tomek CEDRO
8-bit scene is still alive and rox! :-)

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
On Nov 8, 2012 6:11 PM, Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 11/8/2012 10:58 AM, Richard Kuhns wrote:

 On 11/08/12 10:45, Warren Block wrote:

 On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:

  I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

 With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
 situation is following:

 1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
 option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
 2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
 Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
 hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
 xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input
 deviced
 by Xorg at startup.


 No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it
 has been removed from later xorg-server releases.

 Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to
 detect input devices.

  Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
 AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it
 to
 the Xorg project! :-)


 Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL
 option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.
 __**_
 freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list
 http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**currenthttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
 To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscribe@**
 freebsd.org freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org


 Just a comment: according to 
 http://wiki.freebsd.org/**VirtualBoxhttp://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox,
 Hal is still
 required for VirtualBox in order to have host DVD/CD access.


 Doesn't mean xorg-server needs hal.  Build xorg-server without hal
 support... install hald for virtualbox. Everything still works as it
 should... In the meantime, someone should probably write a
 devd-udisks[12] translation daemon.. for things like gnome, kde, xfce,
 and virtualbox, which have the udisks linuxisms can actually continue to
 work in the future..

 I'd do it if I had any coding skills... I left those behind when I sold my
 Commodore64. :P

 --
 Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com
 __**_
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 To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscribe@**
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Warren Block

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, Ian Lepore wrote:


On Thu, 2012-11-08 at 08:45 -0700, Warren Block wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
situation is following:

1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
by Xorg at startup.


No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it
has been removed from later xorg-server releases.


This is disturbing news.  We build embedded systems at work that use X
for presentation and have no input devices.  I understand that
AllowEmptyInput is inappropriate to work around the problem we're
discussing here, but that doesn't mean it's never needed.


The xorg folks should be able to suggest the right replacement.


Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to
detect input devices.


Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
the Xorg project! :-)


Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL
option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.


So if you're using xorg-server that was built with hal included (maybe
because you're more a package than a ports kind of person and have no
control over the build), is AutoAddDevices still the right option to
manipulate?  That is, will it disable the use of hal and fall back to
honoring the xorg.conf input devices even if the server was built with
hal support?


xorg-server with hal support and AutoAddDevices Off in xorg.conf should 
be equivalent to xorg-server built without hal support.


Put another way: if xorg-server is built without hal support, 
AutoAddDevices is irrelevant, it can't use hal for input device 
detection anyway.



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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Warren Block

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, Tomek CEDRO wrote:


WARNING!!!

When AllowEmptyInput = False AND Hal is running really really bad things
happen to Xorg!! Keys are messed up and screen is refreshed only after
mouse move! Things are slow and the end of the word is near :-)

AllowEmptyInput seems to be exclusive with Hal!!

Please confirm :-)


It's a known problem, in the same class as Doctor, it hurts when I do 
this.

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-08 Thread Warren Block

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, Richard Kuhns wrote:


On 11/08/12 10:45, Warren Block wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
situation is following:

1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg unless
Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input deviced
by Xorg at startup.


No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it
has been removed from later xorg-server releases.

Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to
detect input devices.


Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report it to
the Xorg project! :-)


Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL
option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.


Just a comment: according to http://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox, Hal is still
required for VirtualBox in order to have host DVD/CD access.


This is probably a permissions thing.  VirtualBox sees the device, but 
can't quite mount it.  So hal may not be actually required for that 
function in VirtualBox, but figuring out just what is needed without hal 
remains to be done.


KDE and Gnome both still need hal, but AFAIK do not require it to be 
used for xorg input device detection.  xfce4 works fine without hal.

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-) - Hald and xorg?

2012-11-08 Thread Chuck Burns

On 11/8/2012 1:46 PM, Warren Block wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, Richard Kuhns wrote:


On 11/08/12 10:45, Warren Block wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


I have tested additional options in xorg runtime :-)

With the patched xorg mouse driver 1.7.1 (or driver version =1.7.2)
situation is following:

1. With hald and dbus no xorg.conf file is needed. However it might bo
option to pass some additional featutes parameters with xorg.conf.
2. With no hald and dbus mouse and keyboard does not work in xorg
unless
Option AllowEmptyInput False is added to  Section ServerLayout by
hand in xorg.conf. Without this option input does not work even if
xorg.conf defines it! AllowEmptyInput=False forces to detect input
deviced
by Xorg at startup.


No.  AllowEmptyInput is wrong.  It was causing so many problems that it
has been removed from later xorg-server releases.

Option AutoAddDevices Off is the one that means dont' use Hal to
detect input devices.


Thank you for this hint! This could be added to the handbook :-)
AllowEmptyInput=False should be a default for Xorg IMO we can report
it to
the Xorg project! :-)


Really, the simplest solution is to build xorg-server with the HAL
option disabled.  I agree that this should be the default.


Just a comment: according to http://wiki.freebsd.org/VirtualBox, Hal
is still
required for VirtualBox in order to have host DVD/CD access.


This is probably a permissions thing.  VirtualBox sees the device, but
can't quite mount it.  So hal may not be actually required for that
function in VirtualBox, but figuring out just what is needed without hal
remains to be done.

KDE and Gnome both still need hal, but AFAIK do not require it to be
used for xorg input device detection.  xfce4 works fine without hal.
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Actually, KDE does -not- need hal. KDE uses the SOLID system for 
automatic mounting/unmounting of removable/non-removable drives.  There 
are two backends for SOLID. Hal, and udisks.  Since FreeBSD does not 
support udisks, then the only viable SOLID backend, at the moment, is 
the hald one.  The kde@ team plans to eventually write a devd SOLID 
backend, but they are extremely busy, so any help in that would be most 
welcome.. avilla@ can probably elaborate on that.. cross-posting my 
reply to the kde@ ML so they can chime in if need be.


--
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-) - Hald and xorg?

2012-11-08 Thread Freddie Cash
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actually, KDE does -not- need hal. KDE uses the SOLID system for automatic
 mounting/unmounting of removable/non-removable drives.  There are two
 backends for SOLID. Hal, and udisks.  Since FreeBSD does not support udisks,
 then the only viable SOLID backend, at the moment, is the hald one.  The
 kde@ team plans to eventually write a devd SOLID backend, but they are
 extremely busy, so any help in that would be most welcome.. avilla@ can
 probably elaborate on that.. cross-posting my reply to the kde@ ML so they
 can chime in if need be.

There's a devd-based automounter available in the Forums that works with KDE4:

https://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=29895

-- 
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fjwc...@gmail.com
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread Boris Samorodov
07.11.2012 11:57, Boris Samorodov пишет:
 07.11.2012 01:14, CeDeROM пишет:
 I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
 but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
 restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)

 In the xorg.conf:
 Section InputDevice
  Identifier Mouse0
  Driver mouse
  Option Protocol auto
  Option Device /dev/sysmouse
  Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
 EndSection
 
 You may be interested in:
 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/171433
 
 If the patch from the PR helps you, please submit a follow-up
 to the PR.

Well, actually I've just committed an upstream patch to
x11-drivers/xf86-input-mouse. Please give it a try.

-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread CeDeROM
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Boris Samorodov b...@passap.ru wrote:
 You may be interested in:
 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/171433

 If the patch from the PR helps you, please submit a follow-up
 to the PR.

 Well, actually I've just committed an upstream patch to
 x11-drivers/xf86-input-mouse. Please give it a try.

I put this by hand into mouse.c: pInfo-options = dev-commonOptions;

Yes it solves the issue! Thanks!! :-)

According to the PR the 1.7.2 xorg-mouse driver has this fix, so I
would strongly recommend to put 1.7.2 driver into a release, or use
patch provided by Boris, otherwise users will have problems with mouse
on default install.

Best regards! :-)
Tomek

-- 
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread Warren Block

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Julian H. Stacey wrote:


Ian Lepore wrote:


Before you do that, read this:

 http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html


The page is bad here:
Summary ... just let xorg-server use hald by default.

FreeBSD 8.3-RELEASE  9.0-RELEASE by default do Not run hald.  See:
/usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald
# Add the following line to /etc/rc.conf to enable the HAL daemon:
#
# hald_enable=YES
There is no hald_enable=YES in /etc/defaults/rc.conf (Happily, IMO).


It's not saying that hald is run by default, merely that xorg-server 
will try to use it by default.

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread Warren Block

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


Isn't this a Xorg bug then? When I have no configuration file Hal should
provide the configuration, so sooner or later the mouse should start
moving... but is does not..

Do I get http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html correct that
when I am using xorg.conf there is no need for Hal and when I am using Hal
there is no need for xorg.conf?


Not quite, no.  xorg.conf is the configuration file for xorg-server.  It 
can do a lot more than just identify input devices.


Option AutoAddDevices Off tells xorg-server: even if hal is present 
and running, don't use it to detect input devices.


AFAIK, hal is not used by xorg-server for anything else.  All other 
autoconfig (video card detection, monitor detection, it even has its own 
built-in input device detection) is done by the xorg server itself.

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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread Chuck Burns

On 11/7/2012 10:27 AM, Warren Block wrote:

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012, CeDeROM wrote:


Isn't this a Xorg bug then? When I have no configuration file Hal should
provide the configuration, so sooner or later the mouse should start
moving... but is does not..

Do I get http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html correct that
when I am using xorg.conf there is no need for Hal and when I am using
Hal
there is no need for xorg.conf?


Not quite, no.  xorg.conf is the configuration file for xorg-server.  It
can do a lot more than just identify input devices.

Option AutoAddDevices Off tells xorg-server: even if hal is present
and running, don't use it to detect input devices.

AFAIK, hal is not used by xorg-server for anything else.  All other
autoconfig (video card detection, monitor detection, it even has its own
built-in input device detection) is done by the xorg server itself.
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And, for the record, HAL is NOT needed in recent xorg-server, even for 
running without an xorg.conf file.  This was not the case for a while, 
but with recent xorg-server, hal is NOT NEEDED even for autodetection. 
It has been deprecated by the linux folks for a few years now.


--
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread David Chisnall
On 7 Nov 2012, at 08:20, Warren Block wrote:

 It's not saying that hald is run by default, merely that xorg-server will try 
 to use it by default.

And will fail to detect any input devices if hald is not running, but will 
correctly detect them if the X server is compiled without HAL support.  Please 
can we fix the defaults for xorg-server to do the sensible thing?

David
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-07 Thread Kevin Oberman
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:35 AM, David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org wrote:
 On 7 Nov 2012, at 08:20, Warren Block wrote:

 It's not saying that hald is run by default, merely that xorg-server will 
 try to use it by default.

 And will fail to detect any input devices if hald is not running, but will 
 correctly detect them if the X server is compiled without HAL support.  
 Please can we fix the defaults for xorg-server to do the sensible thing?

i believe I saw that this was fixed yesterday.
-- 
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Adrian Chadd
Please file a bug about the intel wifi crash!



adrian


On 6 November 2012 05:31, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:
 Hello world! :-)

 After big shock with new organization of 9.0 and some mobilization to
 take part in RC I have tested 9.1-RC{1,2,3} and found no bigger issues
 so far from user perspective :-)

 Also the installation method is now more familiar than before as I got
 used to it - its nice that message is shown in the partitioning
 section to remove and create a partition to do a fresh install, which
 is not obvious for at first contact.

 I was using RC1 and RC2 on virtual machine, then installed RC3 in
 place of my stable system on Dell Latitude E4310 laptop - with normal
 usage and hard overload I can see no issues - ext2fs and zfs
 partifions are working fine also when serving content for virtual
 machines inside virtualbox-ose 4.1.22 :-)

 The initial packages installation is hard because there is no 9.1
 ports directory on the ftp servers to use, so I had to build
 portupgrade and then install packages with portinstall -PP. Before I
 was using pkg_add -r and portmaster (which is a bit worse than
 portupgrade I think because it cannot find any binary packaged
 itself). But the first impression is that there are no packages
 available to install!

 Also the relase notes documents still use 9.0 numbering...


 Except some issues with current ports like xfce4 window manager does
 not work properly (this might impact release binaries) and fusefs-kmod
 does not build with ruby1.9 which are reported already, I might have
 some wishlist for future:

 It would be nice to have ext4 natively implemented in the kernel,
 because ext2 still seems to be most multiplatform filesystem to share
 partitions across different operating systems. Or another solution is
 to port new UFS driver for Linux and Windows so we can use BSD
 partitions and filesystems on them with no problem :-)

 WiFi Intel driver crashed my system on 9.0, I hope its fixed :-)

 It would be really good to have hardware graphics acceleration for
 Intel X3400 chipsets, and the way it does not destroys the native
 console because it is very useful for tracing problems...

 If you have any particular requests to test some stuff on this
 hardware let me know :-)

 Thank you for your hard work! Best regards :-)
 Tomek Cedro

 --
 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread CeDeROM
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
 Please file a bug about the intel wifi crash!

Hello Adrian! :-) Should I attach kernel core dump / backtrace or
simply write that kernel crash on unstable wifi connection or when
switching radio on and off multiple times or switching wpa_supplicant
multiple times is enough? :-)

Best regards :-)
Tomek

-- 
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Eitan Adler
On 6 November 2012 12:32, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
 Please file a bug about the intel wifi crash!

 Hello Adrian! :-) Should I attach kernel core dump / backtrace or
 simply write that kernel crash on unstable wifi connection or when
 switching radio on and off multiple times or switching wpa_supplicant
 multiple times is enough? :-)

Please include a kernel backtrace.  Do you have debugging symbols
enabled?

This is really important: *be responsive*.  Hardware bugs are
difficult to diagnose and fix, so the more information you provide,
and the more you are able to test patches or answer questions, the
easier it will be get this resolved.

If you can provide a reproducible step-by-step directions to see the
bug, even better.



-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Adrian Chadd
+1 - what he said.

Thanks,


Adrian

On 6 November 2012 10:41, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote:
 On 6 November 2012 12:32, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
 Please file a bug about the intel wifi crash!

 Hello Adrian! :-) Should I attach kernel core dump / backtrace or
 simply write that kernel crash on unstable wifi connection or when
 switching radio on and off multiple times or switching wpa_supplicant
 multiple times is enough? :-)

 Please include a kernel backtrace.  Do you have debugging symbols
 enabled?

 This is really important: *be responsive*.  Hardware bugs are
 difficult to diagnose and fix, so the more information you provide,
 and the more you are able to test patches or answer questions, the
 easier it will be get this resolved.

 If you can provide a reproducible step-by-step directions to see the
 bug, even better.



 --
 Eitan Adler
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread CeDeROM
Okay, Ill try to build the kernel with debug symbols and provide
backtrace if possible. The generic one provided with the distribution
is stripped? Where can I find configuration for release kernel? :-)

Thanks for all hints! :-)

-- 
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread CeDeROM
I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)

In the xorg.conf:
Section InputDevice
 Identifier Mouse0
 Driver mouse
 Option Protocol auto
 Option Device /dev/sysmouse
 Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
EndSection

-- 
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Julian H. Stacey
Hi,
Reference:
 From: CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl 
 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:14:03 +0100 
 Message-id:   
 CAFYkXjnRzPAkNuc5C0iTNUTe5j=h8ga9vwme+trdng_kyjc...@mail.gmail.com 

CeDeROM wrote:
 I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
 but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
 restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
 
 In the xorg.conf:
 Section InputDevice
  Identifier Mouse0
  Driver mouse
  Option Protocol auto
  Option Device /dev/sysmouse
  Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
 EndSection

Inside
Section ServerLayout
Just after
InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer
Append 
Option  AllowEmptyInput False

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Ian Lepore
On Tue, 2012-11-06 at 22:57 +0100, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
 Hi,
 Reference:
  From:   CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl 
  Date:   Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:14:03 +0100 
  Message-id: 
  CAFYkXjnRzPAkNuc5C0iTNUTe5j=h8ga9vwme+trdng_kyjc...@mail.gmail.com 
 
 CeDeROM wrote:
  I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
  but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
  restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
  
  In the xorg.conf:
  Section InputDevice
   Identifier Mouse0
   Driver mouse
   Option Protocol auto
   Option Device /dev/sysmouse
   Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
  EndSection
 
 Inside
   Section ServerLayout
 Just after
   InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer
 Append 
   Option  AllowEmptyInput False
 
 Cheers,
 Julian

Before you do that, read this:

 http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html

-- Ian


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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread CeDeROM
Isn't this a Xorg bug then? When I have no configuration file Hal should
provide the configuration, so sooner or later the mouse should start
moving... but is does not..

Do I get http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html correct that
when I am using xorg.conf there is no need for Hal and when I am using Hal
there is no need for xorg.conf?

Thanks :-)
Tomek
On Nov 6, 2012 10:58 PM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote:

 Hi,
 Reference:
  From: CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl
  Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:14:03 +0100
  Message-id:   CAFYkXjnRzPAkNuc5C0iTNUTe5j=
 h8ga9vwme+trdng_kyjc...@mail.gmail.com

 CeDeROM wrote:
  I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
  but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
  restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
 
  In the xorg.conf:
  Section InputDevice
   Identifier Mouse0
   Driver mouse
   Option Protocol auto
   Option Device /dev/sysmouse
   Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
  EndSection

 Inside
 Section ServerLayout
 Just after
 InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer
 Append
 Option  AllowEmptyInput False

 Cheers,
 Julian
 --
 Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich
 http://berklix.com
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  Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64,
 quoted-printable.
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Ian Lepore
On Wed, 2012-11-07 at 00:34 +0100, CeDeROM wrote:
 Isn't this a Xorg bug then? When I have no configuration file Hal
 should
 provide the configuration, so sooner or later the mouse should start
 moving... but is does not..
 
 Do I get http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html correct
 that
 when I am using xorg.conf there is no need for Hal and when I am using
 Hal
 there is no need for xorg.conf?
 
 Thanks :-)

I think that is true in general, usually you have one or the other.
There are times when you need an xorg.conf and you may have hald running
for other reasons, and then you have to get them to play nice together.
I had that situation at one time (I needed to customize something about
my monitor that wasn't auto-detected), but now it just works for me
without any xorg.conf.  When I did have both, turning off AutoAddDevices
and configuring sysmouse as the input device worked for me (but that was
on 8.x, not 9.x, and probably an older port of the X server).

I've also seen a couple sites recommend turning off AutoAddDevices if
you manually configure the mouse without mentioning hal specifically.
They just say things like X will automatically find your mouse unless
you turn off AutoAddDevices.  It's unclear to me whether X is able to
do that without hal, or maybe those statements are just glossing over
important details to keep the explanation simple.

-- Ian


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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Julian H. Stacey
Ian Lepore wrote:
 On Tue, 2012-11-06 at 22:57 +0100, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
  Hi,
  Reference:
   From: CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl 
   Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:14:03 +0100 
   Message-id:   
   CAFYkXjnRzPAkNuc5C0iTNUTe5j=h8ga9vwme+trdng_kyjc...@mail.gmail.com 
  
  CeDeROM wrote:
   I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
   but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
   restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
   
   In the xorg.conf:
   Section InputDevice
Identifier Mouse0
Driver mouse
Option Protocol auto
Option Device /dev/sysmouse
Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
   EndSection
  
  Inside
  Section ServerLayout
  Just after
  InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer
  Append 
  Option  AllowEmptyInput False
  
  Cheers,
  Julian
 
 Before you do that, read this:
 
  http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html

The page is bad here:
Summary ... just let xorg-server use hald by default.

FreeBSD 8.3-RELEASE  9.0-RELEASE by default do Not run hald.  See:
/usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald
# Add the following line to /etc/rc.conf to enable the HAL daemon:
#
# hald_enable=YES
There is no hald_enable=YES in /etc/defaults/rc.conf (Happily, IMO).

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: 9.1-RC3 feels okay :-)

2012-11-06 Thread Boris Samorodov
07.11.2012 01:14, CeDeROM пишет:
 I have also noted that mouse cursor is very often not moving in Xorg
 but it works in the console! I need to move cursor while statrx or
 restart Xorg for mouse to start moving. Is it a bug or feature? :-)
 
 In the xorg.conf:
 Section InputDevice
  Identifier Mouse0
  Driver mouse
  Option Protocol auto
  Option Device /dev/sysmouse
  Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7
 EndSection

You may be interested in:
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/171433

If the patch from the PR helps you, please submit a follow-up
to the PR.

-- 
WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam)
FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve
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