Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
Not directed to Doug in particular, just selected the first message to reply to, to keep the depth of the thread from exploding. :) On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Unless someone is willing to put in the time and effort to fix sysinstall such that it doesn't just spam settings to the end of the rc.conf file, it should remain dead, gone, buried, expunged, etc. While it may be nice for some users to have a pretty TUI to browse through packages, or configure networking, or whatever, sysinstall should not be it. The number of times new users have screwed up their systems by using sysinstall as a post-install configuration tool is too numerous to count. As a moderator on forums.freebsd.org, the first thing I tell new users is to forget sysinstall even exists once the OS is installed. JUST DON'T USE IT AS A POST-INSTALL CONFIGURATION TOOL! It's not worth the headaches it will cause down the line. And some of those headaches are large indeed. Plus, it doesn't support even half of the network configuration features that rc.conf support. Let alone the rest of stuff that can go into rc.conf. And it has no concept of rc.conf.local (which is very useful for configuring multiple systems that share an rc.conf). Instead of resurrecting this horrible tool, perhaps we should look at Devin Teska's host-setup tool. Or better documenting the standalone parts of sysinstall like SADE. Or even just improving the first-login fortune entry to point to a couple of useful man pages to get people started. Or even writing a new things to do once the OS is installed man page (similar to what OpenBSD has). sysinstall has served its purpose; and long out-lived its usefulness. It's time to let it out to pasture. Please, let's leave it in the attic where it belongs. -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/29/11 14:04, John Baldwin wrote: On Thursday, December 29, 2011 2:55:10 pm Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 12/29/11 10:52, Warren Block wrote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, John Baldwin wrote: A way to select from available partition types (UFS, boot, swap, ZFS, etc.) rather than requiring the user to remember the 'freebsd-xxx' string would be one improvement. There are PRs for that and several other common suggestions: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?text=bsdinstall The problem with, say, a dropdown menu is that libdialog doesn't provide a combination dropdown-and-text-entry window. The only alternative would be to split partition creation into two screens (first a list of types, and later a thing to set it up). That has the disadvantage of requiring two screens, or a third if you want alternate types. sysinstall just popped up a new modal dialog with a menu to pick the partition type. Would something like that work in bsdinstall? It would. I was hoping to avoid extra dialogs and keystrokes, but it's easy to do. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, John Baldwin wrote: A way to select from available partition types (UFS, boot, swap, ZFS, etc.) rather than requiring the user to remember the 'freebsd-xxx' string would be one improvement. There are PRs for that and several other common suggestions: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?text=bsdinstall ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:37:25 am Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 12/29/11 06:52, John Baldwin wrote: On Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:32:52 pm Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. I think Doug is worried that the list will just get longer, and I agree. Bits rot faster once they aren't part of the build. It is easy to delete sysinstall or trim it, it is not easy to resurrect it. Personally, the one time I used bsdinstall recently I found it to be a bit uneven, and not really a step forward for a new user compared to the standard install mode of sysinstall. It's biggest win is it's ability to do more disk configurations, but it seemed less user-friendly in almost every other regard (and even the disk editor seemd less user-friendly even if it had more functionality). I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. A way to select from available partition types (UFS, boot, swap, ZFS, etc.) rather than requiring the user to remember the 'freebsd-xxx' string would be one improvement. At the time I was more worried about getting my box up and running than taking detailed notes. :) The lack of a /compat link is another issue people have raised. The lack of a shell running on ttyv3 during the install is probably a feature I think many advanced users would miss. I missed having the debug output on ttyv1 as well. At work here it would be a deal-killer for my sysadmins to not have ttyv3. We use a custom installer for our boxes that I wrote as a shell script and it still does debug/verbose output on ttyv1. It doesn't start an explicit shell on ttyv3, but I have a login prompt there that they can use and I've thought about even replacing that with an explicit chroot'd shell ala sysinstall. I can't count the number of times I've used the shell on ttyv3 during installs. For new users the ability to browse the packages, etc. I think is important. It certainly was for me back when I first installed FreeBSD back in college. I don't recall seeing that option during the one install I did of 9. -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/29/11 06:52, John Baldwin wrote: On Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:32:52 pm Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. I think Doug is worried that the list will just get longer, and I agree. Bits rot faster once they aren't part of the build. It is easy to delete sysinstall or trim it, it is not easy to resurrect it. Personally, the one time I used bsdinstall recently I found it to be a bit uneven, and not really a step forward for a new user compared to the standard install mode of sysinstall. It's biggest win is it's ability to do more disk configurations, but it seemed less user-friendly in almost every other regard (and even the disk editor seemd less user-friendly even if it had more functionality). I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.orgwrote: On 12/29/11 06:52, John Baldwin wrote: On Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:32:52 pm Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. I think Doug is worried that the list will just get longer, and I agree. Bits rot faster once they aren't part of the build. It is easy to delete sysinstall or trim it, it is not easy to resurrect it. Personally, the one time I used bsdinstall recently I found it to be a bit uneven, and not really a step forward for a new user compared to the standard install mode of sysinstall. It's biggest win is it's ability to do more disk configurations, but it seemed less user-friendly in almost every other regard (and even the disk editor seemd less user-friendly even if it had more functionality). I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. -Nathan I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 release candidates by using bsdinstall . I have selected only guided hard disk setup by selecting all defaults . For a less experienced person , by selecting the only defaults , and giving root password , a single user definition is sufficient to a successful install . With this structure of bsdinstall , I think , it is very well designed and expertly implemented . My suggestion would be , for immediate adjustment , after selecting REBOOT , since installer may know that install is from CD/DVD , may unmount CD/DVD , warn the user to remove CD/DVD , and request press a key to continue for booting . Since this part is missing , it is becoming necessary to enter a race between the user and the computer to find an interval to eject CD/DVD before captured by the BIOS . I did not use USB for install . I do not know how it is handled , but unmounting and extracting the USB stick and pressing a key to continue is also will be useful , if it is not already like that . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:32:52 pm Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. I think Doug is worried that the list will just get longer, and I agree. Bits rot faster once they aren't part of the build. It is easy to delete sysinstall or trim it, it is not easy to resurrect it. Personally, the one time I used bsdinstall recently I found it to be a bit uneven, and not really a step forward for a new user compared to the standard install mode of sysinstall. It's biggest win is it's ability to do more disk configurations, but it seemed less user-friendly in almost every other regard (and even the disk editor seemd less user-friendly even if it had more functionality). -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
--- Gio 29/12/11, Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.org ha scritto: ... I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. -Nathan FWIW; I have practically given up on installing FreeBSD lately and I mostly use PC-BSD. I mainly see two big issues: -X.Org has become very difficult to install. Setting up hald and friends, not to mention that you have to choose carefully your hardware previously. It's a nightmare. - I am OK with sysinstall disappearing: however it was nice to have all the setup tools in one place. How am I supposed to install prebuilt packages (and the myriad of dependencies) from now on? Ports are cool but having to wait to rebuild gcc to be able to use scilab is a nonsense. PC-BSD is not without problems though. In my system it wants to use latam kbd which doesn't even exist AFAICT. Just my $0.02, I know writing a replacement for the full blown sysinstall is a rather heroic thing to do. Regards, Pedro. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/29/11 10:52, Warren Block wrote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, John Baldwin wrote: A way to select from available partition types (UFS, boot, swap, ZFS, etc.) rather than requiring the user to remember the 'freebsd-xxx' string would be one improvement. There are PRs for that and several other common suggestions: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?text=bsdinstall The problem with, say, a dropdown menu is that libdialog doesn't provide a combination dropdown-and-text-entry window. The only alternative would be to split partition creation into two screens (first a list of types, and later a thing to set it up). That has the disadvantage of requiring two screens, or a third if you want alternate types. The shell on v3 is a good idea, and belongs in /usr/src/release/rc.local, where it already handles some things like this (including figuring out if the console is a serial port, which needs to be taken into account). -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 29 December 2011 18:23, Pedro Giffuni p...@freebsd.org wrote: --- Gio 29/12/11, Nathan Whitehorn nwhiteh...@freebsd.org ha scritto: I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. -Nathan FWIW; I have practically given up on installing FreeBSD lately and I mostly use PC-BSD. I mainly see two big issues: -X.Org has become very difficult to install. Setting up hald and friends, not to mention that you have to choose carefully your hardware previously. It's a nightmare. I've not found that... installing xorg-drivers with the correct options is hassle-free... have you posted these problems to -x11@? - I am OK with sysinstall disappearing: however it was nice to have all the setup tools in one place. How am I supposed to install prebuilt packages (and the myriad of dependencies) from now on? Ports are cool but having to wait to rebuild gcc to be able to use scilab is a nonsense. Use packages, we do do them! Chris PC-BSD is not without problems though. In my system it wants to use latam kbd which doesn't even exist AFAICT. Just my $0.02, I know writing a replacement for the full blown sysinstall is a rather heroic thing to do. Regards, Pedro. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Thursday, December 29, 2011 2:55:10 pm Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 12/29/11 10:52, Warren Block wrote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, John Baldwin wrote: A way to select from available partition types (UFS, boot, swap, ZFS, etc.) rather than requiring the user to remember the 'freebsd-xxx' string would be one improvement. There are PRs for that and several other common suggestions: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?text=bsdinstall The problem with, say, a dropdown menu is that libdialog doesn't provide a combination dropdown-and-text-entry window. The only alternative would be to split partition creation into two screens (first a list of types, and later a thing to set it up). That has the disadvantage of requiring two screens, or a third if you want alternate types. sysinstall just popped up a new modal dialog with a menu to pick the partition type. Would something like that work in bsdinstall? -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 29/12/2011 16:37, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. There was talk in the past that any future installer should be based around the pc-sysinstall backend - has there been any progress towards moving bsdinstall to it? -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 29 December 2011 21:25, Pedro Giffuni p...@freebsd.org wrote: --- Gio 29/12/11, Chris Rees cr...@freebsd.org ha scritto: FWIW; I have practically given up on installing FreeBSD lately and I mostly use PC-BSD. I mainly see two big issues: -X.Org has become very difficult to install. Setting up hald and friends, not to mention that you have to choose carefully your hardware previously. It's a nightmare. I've not found that... installing xorg-drivers with the correct options is hassle-free... have you posted these problems to -x11@? Hmm.. I think it was 8.2 and X.org -configure didn't give me a working screen, and then I discovered I had to be using hald, it was painful and I starting keeping a copy of my working configuration in a USB mem. TBH the -x11 guys were really doing their own homework keeping up with linux and I was able to find out the information on the net. I use the nvidia driver, no idea what people with ATI cards do. I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with that, if you ever want to try again and you can't work it out get me off list ;) - I am OK with sysinstall disappearing: however it was nice to have all the setup tools in one place. How am I supposed to install prebuilt packages (and the myriad of dependencies) from now on? Ports are cool but having to wait to rebuild gcc to be able to use scilab is a nonsense. Use packages, we do do them! Of course, but no idea how to use them without sysinstall's post-install configuration screen: it was just too easy. I hope I don't have to start downloading manually all the prepackaged dependencies (I still do that with Java and it's not nice). Nah, pkg_add -r works and grabs anything you need. Try it with something monstrous (like gcc...) Chris ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 29/12/2011 21:30, Chris Rees wrote: Nah, pkg_add -r works and grabs anything you need. Try it with something monstrous (like gcc...) But then you have to know the exact name of the package, which isn't always obvious. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
--- Gio 29/12/11, Chris Rees cr...@freebsd.org ha scritto: FWIW; I have practically given up on installing FreeBSD lately and I mostly use PC-BSD. I mainly see two big issues: -X.Org has become very difficult to install. Setting up hald and friends, not to mention that you have to choose carefully your hardware previously. It's a nightmare. I've not found that... installing xorg-drivers with the correct options is hassle-free... have you posted these problems to -x11@? Hmm.. I think it was 8.2 and X.org -configure didn't give me a working screen, and then I discovered I had to be using hald, it was painful and I starting keeping a copy of my working configuration in a USB mem. TBH the -x11 guys were really doing their own homework keeping up with linux and I was able to find out the information on the net. I use the nvidia driver, no idea what people with ATI cards do. - I am OK with sysinstall disappearing: however it was nice to have all the setup tools in one place. How am I supposed to install prebuilt packages (and the myriad of dependencies) from now on? Ports are cool but having to wait to rebuild gcc to be able to use scilab is a nonsense. Use packages, we do do them! Of course, but no idea how to use them without sysinstall's post-install configuration screen: it was just too easy. I hope I don't have to start downloading manually all the prepackaged dependencies (I still do that with Java and it's not nice). Pedro. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 29 Dec 2011 21:36, Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk wrote: On 29/12/2011 21:30, Chris Rees wrote: Nah, pkg_add -r works and grabs anything you need. Try it with something monstrous (like gcc...) But then you have to know the exact name of the package, which isn't always obvious. If an educated guess doesn't work... make -C /usr/ports/category/name -V PKGNAME will get you the package name. Chris ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:23:58AM -0800, Pedro Giffuni wrote: How am I supposed to install prebuilt packages (and the myriad of dependencies) from now on? I strongly recommend using portmaster. The manpage is very dense but to start with, use something like the following (I'm just picking one port at random, pkg_cutleaves, to install): portmaster -PP ports-mgmt/pkg_cutleaves mcl ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
Hello; --- Gio 29/12/11, Chris Rees cr...@freebsd.org ha scritto: I use the nvidia driver, no idea what people with ATI cards do. I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with that, if you ever want to try again and you can't work it out get me off list ;) Getting X11 to run on virtualbox from a FreeBSD 9.0 CD installation is pretty much a nightmare. Is there something about it in the users handbook? A wiki page about setting up X11 on FreeBSD would do it too. Perhaps we should write one. ... I hope I don't have to start downloading manually all the prepackaged dependencies (I still do that with Java and it's not nice). Nah, pkg_add -r works and grabs anything you need. Try it with something monstrous (like gcc...) Aha! I guess I just keep doing things the old way then, the package browser was still very nice but I guess what is really missing is documentation. How is someone new to FreeBSD supposed to know what packages are available and how to install them? cheers, Pedro. Chris ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/29/11 12:51, Bruce Cran wrote: On 29/12/2011 16:37, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: I'd appreciate any specific comments you might have, and especially specific suggestions for improvements. Except from people who are old hands at sysinstall, I've received almost universally positive comments on the user experience. Patches would be even more appreciated, since real life has intervened to steal most of my FreeBSD time. There was talk in the past that any future installer should be based around the pc-sysinstall backend - has there been any progress towards moving bsdinstall to it? There has not been much. My free time evaporated, and I haven't had the ability to work on this. I heard from some people at iX a while back, but I don't know what their progress is. There are a relatively small number of relatively major things that would need to be rewritten on both sides (e.g. the pc-sysinstall partition editor is x86-only and the bsdinstall one is premised around letting the kernel do pre-commit staging). There's a relatively bare wiki page at http://wiki.freebsd.org/PCBSDInstallMerge for those interested. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 28/12/2011 06:30, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 22:08, Adrian Chadd wrote: Hi, Why not just list the things that sysinstall did that people like, and extract out / reimplement those bits? That's sounds great. As soon as that's done, we can remove sysinstall from the base. Until those things exist, removing it is premature. In that case can I suggest a wiki page or other viewable/editable list of desirable features from sysinstall? I only used it for the basic disklayout and component install so I'm not in a position to start it off or I would. Vince ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Vincent Hoffman vi...@unsane.co.uk wrote: On 28/12/2011 06:30, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 22:08, Adrian Chadd wrote: Hi, Why not just list the things that sysinstall did that people like, and extract out / reimplement those bits? That's sounds great. As soon as that's done, we can remove sysinstall from the base. Until those things exist, removing it is premature. In that case can I suggest a wiki page or other viewable/editable list of desirable features from sysinstall? I only used it for the basic disklayout and component install so I'm not in a position to start it off or I would. Vince ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Why not just get the list from sysinstall? Distributions Install additional distribution sets Documentation installation Install FreeBSD Documentation set PackagesInstall pre-packaged software for FreeBSD Root Password Set the system manager's password Fdisk The disk Slice (PC-style partition) Editor Label The disk Label editor User Management Add user and group information Console Customize system console behavior Time Zone Set which time zone you're in Media Change the installation media type Mouse Configure your mouse Networking Configure additional network services SecurityConfigure system security options Startup Configure system startup options TTYsConfigure system ttys. Options View/Set various installation options HTML Docs Go to the HTML documentation menu (post-install) Load KLDLoad a KLD from a floppy Several of these simply call other tools that will remain present, but several are internal to sysinstall. Fdisk and Label should be replaced by the gpart tools already in bsdinstall. A couple might be simply removed, but most are either useful or near essential, especially for new user. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/27/11 16:13, Ron McDowell wrote: Doug Barton wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Doug We have around 90 web servers running 8.2p5 right now [and yes, I did update the lot on Christmas Eve but that's a different story] and they will not be upgraded to 9.0 until/unless the post-install functionality that was lost by the removal of sysinstall is reintegrated in some way. I also complained about it and was told in effect, too bad. Everyone who commented said sysinstall caused more problems than it solved, although I've been using it for any system changes I needed that it was capable of doing for as long back as I can remember, and my first FreeBSD box was v2.2. I think removing any functionality that was in a previous release without providing an equal-or-better alternative is a bad idea, and that needs to be considered more carefully in the future. So this is not just a +1 vote, it's a +90. Sysintall is in 9 and will not be removed from the 9 branch. The installer used on the release media has changed, but as far as I understand, there is nothing stopping you from running sysinstall from a installer shell or using it for post installation configuration. Doug is only referring to the head branch (which will eventually in ~18-24 months become the 10 branch), so you should be able to have the best of both worlds with 9 i.e. try bsdinstall, fall back to sysinstall when you find bugs or missing features (don't forget to lodge bug reports for problems you find so that bsdinstall can be improved). On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. In the meantime, cajole everyone who pops up saying I really want post installation configuration support to get involved with writing a bsdinstaller-like script (I think it should be completely separate to bsdinstaller, but perhaps use the same backend shell script functions/infrastructure) to do the job. Cheers, Lawrence ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
I think such a tool should /not/ be a port, since I expect it would include a package browser in it. I think it's something that could really help new users get used to FreeBSD without having to trawl through man pages right at the start. -- Bruce Cran Sent from my iPad On 27 Dec 2011, at 05:05, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 12/26/2011 20:29, Xin LI wrote: On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Perhaps make it a port instead? I personally don't use sysinstall for post-install tasks at all, but it won't hurt to have such functionality. You're not the first person to suggest that, but I don't see how it's actually responsive to the problem. This issue only affects HEAD, so a port would not be generally useful. It would also be an enormous amount of work to make it into a port. It would be much easier to revert the necessary changes to bring back the old libdialog and sysinstall itself. Doug -- [^L] Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/27/11 16:13, Ron McDowell wrote: Doug Barton wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Doug We have around 90 web servers running 8.2p5 right now [and yes, I did update the lot on Christmas Eve but that's a different story] and they will not be upgraded to 9.0 until/unless the post-install functionality that was lost by the removal of sysinstall is reintegrated in some way. I also complained about it and was told in effect, too bad. Everyone who commented said sysinstall caused more problems than it solved, although I've been using it for any system changes I needed that it was capable of doing for as long back as I can remember, and my first FreeBSD box was v2.2. I think removing any functionality that was in a previous release without providing an equal-or-better alternative is a bad idea, and that needs to be considered more carefully in the future. So this is not just a +1 vote, it's a +90. Sysintall is in 9 and will not be removed from the 9 branch. The installer used on the release media has changed, but as far as I understand, there is nothing stopping you from running sysinstall from a installer shell or using it for post installation configuration. You're right. I stand corrected and am happy to see I'll be able to upgrade to 9.0 after -RELEASE. Doug is only referring to the head branch (which will eventually in ~18-24 months become the 10 branch), so you should be able to have the best of both worlds with 9 i.e. try bsdinstall, fall back to sysinstall when you find bugs or missing features (don't forget to lodge bug reports for problems you find so that bsdinstall can be improved). On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. In the meantime, cajole everyone who pops up saying I really want post installation configuration support to get involved with writing a bsdinstaller-like script (I think it should be completely separate to bsdinstaller, but perhaps use the same backend shell script functions/infrastructure) to do the job. I guess this is a good time for me to quit bitching, get off my butt, and contribute something back to a project I've been using daily for almost 20 years. Having done similar sysadm development work [way back] on Tandy Xenix, SCO Xenix/Unix, and Dell SVR4 Unix, this is an area where I actually might know enough to be useful. To that end, the first task I'm assigning myself is to poke around in bsdinstall/libdialog and see how they work. As a related question, is there a good primer somewhere about how to use SVN? I'm using csup at present. -- Ron McDowell San Antonio TX ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 11:50:54AM -0600, Ron McDowell wrote: As a related question, is there a good primer somewhere about how to use SVN? I'm using csup at present. http://wiki.freebsd.org/SubversionPrimer -- Steve ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Doug -- You can observe a lot just by watching. -- Yogi Berra Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Ron McDowell wrote: As a related question, is there a good primer somewhere about how to use SVN? I'm using csup at present. - Install the subversion port - Downlaod the source. To get HEAD code: svn co svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/head/ or to get 9-stable code: svn co svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/9 (If you want to check it out into a different directory, append the dir name, for example: svn co svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/head/ src) - Make your changes :) - To get a diff of your changes, you can just use svn diff Gavin ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. Cheers, Lawrence ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/27/2011 18:32, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On 12/28/11 06:29, Doug Barton wrote: On 12/27/2011 03:48, Lawrence Stewart wrote: On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. My concern about that approach is that 9.0 hasn't even been released yet and we've already seen changes that are going to make it hard to resurrect sysinstall if that's the decision we come to. Waiting another year or 2 would make it impossible. Which changes are you referring to? I would have thought a reverse merge to undo the deletion of the sysinstall and old libdialog sources would be very minimal work. Then I admire your mad skillz, because it sounds like a lot of work to me. :) We'd also probably need a few extra build system changes to make sure old libdialog is perhaps statically compiled into sysinstall as it would be the only in-tree consumer, but that's not hard either. I may be lacking some imagination, but don't really see why it would become harder the longer we wait. My concern is that it's going to get worse as time goes along. Without sysinstall in the base people are going to feel free to make changes to things that sysinstall depends on (as they have already), and waiting a year or 2 to resurrect it will cause that problem to grow exponentially. Doug -- You can observe a lot just by watching. -- Yogi Berra Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
Hi, Why not just list the things that sysinstall did that people like, and extract out / reimplement those bits? Noone's going to complain if you write say, a stand-alone package browser, or a stand-alone gui upgrade tool, or stand-alone configuration program, etc. Adrian ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/27/2011 22:08, Adrian Chadd wrote: Hi, Why not just list the things that sysinstall did that people like, and extract out / reimplement those bits? That's sounds great. As soon as that's done, we can remove sysinstall from the base. Until those things exist, removing it is premature. -- You can observe a lot just by watching. -- Yogi Berra Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/26/2011 18:23, Justin Hibbits wrote: Hi Doug, I do agree that it would be nice to have a post-install configuration utility. However, I think it might be better served with a separate tool, rather than a swiss army knife that sysinstall was. If someone is willing to do the work, I think a suitable replacement could be written in sh+dialog, along the lines of bsdinstall. I don't think anyone would disagree that it would be nice to have a new tool, but that's not the question. That being said, I remove myself from the nomination pool. ... and this is why would we like to have a new tool? is not the question. :) Doug -- [^L] Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Dec 26, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Doug Barton wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post- install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Doug Hi Doug, I do agree that it would be nice to have a post-install configuration utility. However, I think it might be better served with a separate tool, rather than a swiss army knife that sysinstall was. If someone is willing to do the work, I think a suitable replacement could be written in sh+dialog, along the lines of bsdinstall. That being said, I remove myself from the nomination pool. - Justin ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Perhaps make it a port instead? I personally don't use sysinstall for post-install tasks at all, but it won't hurt to have such functionality. Cheers, -- Xin LI delp...@delphij.net https://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! Live free or die ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On 12/26/2011 20:29, Xin LI wrote: On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Perhaps make it a port instead? I personally don't use sysinstall for post-install tasks at all, but it won't hurt to have such functionality. You're not the first person to suggest that, but I don't see how it's actually responsive to the problem. This issue only affects HEAD, so a port would not be generally useful. It would also be an enormous amount of work to make it into a port. It would be much easier to revert the necessary changes to bring back the old libdialog and sysinstall itself. Doug -- [^L] Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
Doug Barton wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? Doug We have around 90 web servers running 8.2p5 right now [and yes, I did update the lot on Christmas Eve but that's a different story] and they will not be upgraded to 9.0 until/unless the post-install functionality that was lost by the removal of sysinstall is reintegrated in some way. I also complained about it and was told in effect, too bad. Everyone who commented said sysinstall caused more problems than it solved, although I've been using it for any system changes I needed that it was capable of doing for as long back as I can remember, and my first FreeBSD box was v2.2. I think removing any functionality that was in a previous release without providing an equal-or-better alternative is a bad idea, and that needs to be considered more carefully in the future. So this is not just a +1 vote, it's a +90. -- Ron McDowell San Antonio TX ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool
On Dec 26, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Ron McDowell wrote: Doug Barton wrote: The story so far ... sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the post-install configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily restore sysinstall. So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality in HEAD something that we care about? We have around 90 web servers running 8.2p5 right now [and yes, I did update the lot on Christmas Eve but that's a different story] and they will not be upgraded to 9.0 until/unless the post-install functionality that was lost by the removal of sysinstall is reintegrated in some way. I also complained about it and was told in effect, too bad. Everyone who commented said sysinstall caused more problems than it solved, although I've been using it for any system changes I needed that it was capable of doing for as long back as I can remember, and my first FreeBSD box was v2.2. I think removing any functionality that was in a previous release without providing an equal-or-better alternative is a bad idea, and that needs to be considered more carefully in the future. So this is not just a +1 vote, it's a +90. I hate to steal Devin's thunder, but… http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-rc/2010-October/002077.html It's been around for a while and does many of the things needed by the sysinstall 'post-install' replacement (minus having a registry of commands vs services to pick from to configure with a slightly more humanized interface *and it's written almost purely with shell logic and built-ins, plus is widely tested and adopted in other BSD distros!*. Most of the other stuff is trivial (configuring an interface, a package installer/configuration tool, etc), and if someone actually said hey -- I'll help you get it done! then yes I'd do it, maintain it, and cherish it. Offer is on the table for a committer who really wants this task done. Thanks, -Garrett___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
