Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 07:18:45PM -0400, Philip M. Gollucci wrote: Not true, you can roll your own omnibus chef builds with this fixed. Can we get this off advocacy@ please? pgp6sj87TQSAd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On 19 Oct 2014, at 23:09, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote: (2) Most devops engineers in web/mobile companies are familiar with Linux. Any differences between Linux and FreeBSD in command-line utilities are not show-stoppers, but they are annoyances. Anything FreeBSD could do to help people used to Linux would be a big help. Allan Jude even brought up my request to symlink /bin/bash ( https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2014-September/095483.html ) :) I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. David ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On 19 October 2014 18:09, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote: Hi, If you don't watch BSDNow.tv ( http://bsdnow.tv ), I encourage you to do so. Allan Jude and Kris Moore do a great job of doing a weekly video podcast of news in the BSD world. It is great stuff. In episode 58 ( http://www.bsdnow.tv/episodes/2014_10_08-behind_the_masq ) BSDNow interviewed the CTO of Voxer ( http://voxer.com ), a mobile messaging startup based in San Francisco. Thanks for linking to this Craig - it's a good interview. As always the whole BSDNow.tv episode is interesting, but if anyone wants to jump right to this interview it starts at 14:44. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This way managing FreeBSD just works. Maybe chef can benefit from the same approach? - Nikolai Lifanov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This way managing FreeBSD just works. Maybe chef can benefit from the same approach? USES=shebangfix is there exactly for that. regards, Bapt pgp1hYCQHvSHs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On 10/20/14 14:43, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This way managing FreeBSD just works. Maybe chef can benefit from the same approach? USES=shebangfix is there exactly for that. I USES=shebangfix, but it only fixes ~40% of path problems (although in a very neat and easy to use way). Hardcoded etcdir, module directory, man pages, etc. also need to be changed. regards, Bapt ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:49:31PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: On 10/20/14 14:43, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This way managing FreeBSD just works. Maybe chef can benefit from the same approach? USES=shebangfix is there exactly for that. I USES=shebangfix, but it only fixes ~40% of path problems (although in a very neat and easy to use way). Hardcoded etcdir, module directory, man pages, etc. also need to be changed. Yes that is the job of the maintainer, so bugging the chef maintainer is the right thing to do. Maintaining a port meaning making sure it workds properly the FreeBSD way. regards, Bapt pgpxbmoHXW7px.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
Yes that is the job of the maintainer, so bugging the chef maintainer is the right thing to do. Maintaining a port meaning making sure it workds properly the FreeBSD way. The omnibus installer is not a port. AFAIK. It’s the installer provided by Chef (the company, formerly known as „Opscode“). It’s basically a shell-script with an archive attached that dumps stuff into /opt/chef and creates a couple of symlinks. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 09:13:35PM +0200, Rainer Duffner wrote: Yes that is the job of the maintainer, so bugging the chef maintainer is the right thing to do. Maintaining a port meaning making sure it workds properly the FreeBSD way. The omnibus installer is not a port. AFAIK. It’s the installer provided by Chef (the company, formerly known as „Opscode“). It’s basically a shell-script with an archive attached that dumps stuff into /opt/chef and creates a couple of symlinks. Well that is the problem, I know a couple of people using chef from ports on freebsd just fine on some large deployments, that explains why I got surprised by this feedback Bapt pgpP1FRXJdX8W.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
Not true, you can roll your own omnibus chef builds with this fixed. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Rainer Duffner rai...@ultra-secure.de wrote: Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. ___ freebsd-advoc...@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-advocacy-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- - TaxiMagic Mobile App $10 Promo Code - 'p6magic' any 1st time rider can use it $ 5 Promo Code - 'cabbie' - thanks New Castle! 4096R/D1EAB94D 2081 E230 3001 6508 8847 1BBF A0A8 DB0F D1EA B94D Philip M. Gollucci (pgollu...@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354 Member, Apache Software Foundation Committer,FreeBSD Foundation Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc. Sr. Director IT Operations, RideCharge Inc. Work like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt, and dance like nobody's watching. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview
On 2014-10-19 18:09, Craig Rodrigues wrote: Hi, If you don't watch BSDNow.tv ( http://bsdnow.tv ), I encourage you to do so. Allan Jude and Kris Moore do a great job of doing a weekly video podcast of news in the BSD world. It is great stuff. In episode 58 ( http://www.bsdnow.tv/episodes/2014_10_08-behind_the_masq ) BSDNow interviewed the CTO of Voxer ( http://voxer.com ), a mobile messaging startup based in San Francisco. Voxer mentioned how they transitioned from SmartOS (an Illumos/Solaris distribution) to FreeBSD. What Voxer liked: (1) DTrace worked for their node.js apps (2) ZFS worked nicely (3) jails work nicely (4) Easy to transition away from SmartOS/Illumos because of (1) and (2) (5) Better support for 3rd party applications (ports) than SmartOS/Illumos (6) Better hardware support than SmartOS/Illumos (7) Good documentation, professional/technical discussions on mailing lists (8) For people who use MacOS X, the FreeBSD command-line utilities were familiar What Voxer didn't like: Voxer was super positive about FreeBSD in the interview, and didn't really mention many downsides to their transition. The only things I could pick up on: (1) Support for FreeBSD in Chef was not as good as they would have liked. They actually have patches to Chef for FreeBSD which they want to upstream. (2) Most devops engineers in web/mobile companies are familiar with Linux. Any differences between Linux and FreeBSD in command-line utilities are not show-stoppers, but they are annoyances. Anything FreeBSD could do to help people used to Linux would be a big help. Allan Jude even brought up my request to symlink /bin/bash ( https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2014-September/095483.html ) :) The interview was really good, and I encourage everyone to watch it. It's nice to see a modern web/mobile company migrating *to* FreeBSD. -- Craig ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org They said one of the biggest draws for them are TRIM support for ZFS on SSDs, which IllumOS does not have. Although I think that is something that Linux has now. If anyone else knows of companies like this, that can tell us why they use FreeBSD, what they'd like FreeBSD to do better, etc, we'd love to feature them on the show. It is important to foster the communications between end users and developers so that the itches get scratched. -- Allan Jude signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
