Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Alex Zepeda wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). Sure it is. Some hapless newbie wanders into #FreeBDS on efnet, and asks an already answered question. Aside from a kick, and a possible ban, they're likely to be met with a chorus of rtfm, which in all likelyhood would prompt the inquisitive newbie to try and run rtfm. So the whole script is the punch line to a bad joke? I'm all for improving user documentation, but I keep getting mixed answers as to what this script is for. One answer is that it's so people will have something to do when they are so new and foolish as to believe that 'rtfm' is a command, the other answer is that this script/program/whatever is designed to do a bunch of help file searching that the user could (and probably should be) do themselves. I'd like to make a suggestion which might help both goals, and save some time. Instead of making a program to do the searching for the user, why not write a man page for 'rtfm' that describes the many resources available and how to use them? Then the actual rtfm command could be a short program that just calls up the man page. It's not as glamorous, but IMO it will be more useful. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Searching the Handbook (was Re: 'rtfm script')
On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 04:57:08PM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: There are a couple of ways you could do it. Some of them more optimal than others. Executive summary: sgrep is probably your best choice now, which can can be found at URL:http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jjaakkol/sgrep.html. But read on for more. The simplest way is to assume that the user has the plain text handbook installed, and do a simple grep through that for what you're looking for. See the FAQ parser. I want to be able to get meaningful output for users. sgrep is also not viable because it's not in the default system. Neither is rtfm(1) yet. Why not put them in ports, publicise them in the FAQ (OK, I realise that's a bit of a chicken/egg problem), lobby JKH to get it mentioned when installing the system, publicise it on the -newbie's list, and so on. I'd be surprised if this was something that was bought in to the system straight away -- pushing it through ports first seems like the natural way to do it. This is nice and easy to do, but doesn't take advantage of the additional smarts built in to the Handbook's native format. To do that requires some additional work. The handbook's native format won't be on the default system, will it? They're all in HTML. You are in a maze of twist future plans, all different. I want to pull the Handbook (and other documentation, like the FAQ) out of the system as it currently stands. Instead, these should be packages, and available in a variety of different formats. At install time, sysinstall can present the user with a list of documentation options they want (including "All docs, all formats"), which will just pkg_add(1) the appropriate files. This doesn't work yet, because I haven't put the code to build the packages in to the doc/ Makefiles yet. If anyone wants to collabotate on this (or, better yet, present me with code that does it) please stand up and be counted. A smart searching mechanism will be able to use this additional semantic information to reject (or lower the rankings of) results that don't match what the user wanted. See above. I want rtfm(1) to remain viable on base installs. I'm not sure you do. You want rtfm(1) to remain viable on "newbie" installs. With a "base" install you can't even count on the manual pages being available. You could go the full SGML route. This would involve building an application that can parse the DocBook source of the Handbook (and other articles, and soon to be the FAQ) and allow the user to do their queries using this application. This is probably the most 'correct' route from a purist point of view, but is an awful lot of work. If the FAQ is to be DocBook-ified, will the SGML sources be made availible via HTTP so rtfm(1) can still cleanly parse them with a minor rewrite of the FAQ section? Yes, you could do it that way. I prefer the package approach, where you'll have packages like fdp-books-faq-html.tgz fdp-books-faq-sgml.tgz fdp-books-faq-html-split.tgz fdp-books-faq-xml.tgz fdp-books-faq-rtf.tgz and so on. Makes it vastly easier for tools like yours to say In order to have the greatest chance of finding what you want, you need to install the SGML sources for the FAQ. If you do not install these sources your searches will still work, but have a greater chance of returning false hits. The SGML source will take up roughly 500KB of disk space. Do you want to install the FAQ SGML source now? [Y]: As I say, for this to work we need to build packages from the doc/ repository -- I haven't had the time to investigate doing this yet. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
Bill Fumerola wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. it can be called anything. the new user isn't going to know it unless refered to it. (or unless there is a question mark to click) Now there's an idea! Someone wanna code up wmrtfm real quick? It should start an rxvt (if available) or xterm running rtfm on strings that are dropped onto or pasted into the dock icon. You know, being a program designer is a WHOLE lot easier than being a programmer. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
Put it in the ".login" or /etc/csh.login (etc.) file. They'll see it every time they log in. -Mark Taylor NetMAX Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.netmax.com/ Wes Peters wrote: Bill Fumerola wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. it can be called anything. the new user isn't going to know it unless refered to it. (or unless there is a question mark to click) Now there's an idea! Someone wanna code up wmrtfm real quick? It should start an rxvt (if available) or xterm running rtfm on strings that are dropped onto or pasted into the dock icon. You know, being a program designer is a WHOLE lot easier than being a programmer. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Searching the Handbook (was Re: 'rtfm script')
On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 04:57:08PM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: There are a couple of ways you could do it. Some of them more optimal than others. Executive summary: sgrep is probably your best choice now, which can can be found at URL:http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jjaakkol/sgrep.html. But read on for more. The simplest way is to assume that the user has the plain text handbook installed, and do a simple grep through that for what you're looking for. See the FAQ parser. I want to be able to get meaningful output for users. sgrep is also not viable because it's not in the default system. Neither is rtfm(1) yet. Why not put them in ports, publicise them in the FAQ (OK, I realise that's a bit of a chicken/egg problem), lobby JKH to get it mentioned when installing the system, publicise it on the -newbie's list, and so on. I'd be surprised if this was something that was bought in to the system straight away -- pushing it through ports first seems like the natural way to do it. This is nice and easy to do, but doesn't take advantage of the additional smarts built in to the Handbook's native format. To do that requires some additional work. The handbook's native format won't be on the default system, will it? They're all in HTML. You are in a maze of twist future plans, all different. I want to pull the Handbook (and other documentation, like the FAQ) out of the system as it currently stands. Instead, these should be packages, and available in a variety of different formats. At install time, sysinstall can present the user with a list of documentation options they want (including All docs, all formats), which will just pkg_add(1) the appropriate files. This doesn't work yet, because I haven't put the code to build the packages in to the doc/ Makefiles yet. If anyone wants to collabotate on this (or, better yet, present me with code that does it) please stand up and be counted. A smart searching mechanism will be able to use this additional semantic information to reject (or lower the rankings of) results that don't match what the user wanted. See above. I want rtfm(1) to remain viable on base installs. I'm not sure you do. You want rtfm(1) to remain viable on newbie installs. With a base install you can't even count on the manual pages being available. You could go the full SGML route. This would involve building an application that can parse the DocBook source of the Handbook (and other articles, and soon to be the FAQ) and allow the user to do their queries using this application. This is probably the most 'correct' route from a purist point of view, but is an awful lot of work. If the FAQ is to be DocBook-ified, will the SGML sources be made availible via HTTP so rtfm(1) can still cleanly parse them with a minor rewrite of the FAQ section? Yes, you could do it that way. I prefer the package approach, where you'll have packages like fdp-books-faq-html.tgz fdp-books-faq-sgml.tgz fdp-books-faq-html-split.tgz fdp-books-faq-xml.tgz fdp-books-faq-rtf.tgz and so on. Makes it vastly easier for tools like yours to say In order to have the greatest chance of finding what you want, you need to install the SGML sources for the FAQ. If you do not install these sources your searches will still work, but have a greater chance of returning false hits. The SGML source will take up roughly 500KB of disk space. Do you want to install the FAQ SGML source now? [Y]: As I say, for this to work we need to build packages from the doc/ repository -- I haven't had the time to investigate doing this yet. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. it can be called anything. the new user isn't going to know it unless refered to it. (or unless there is a question mark to click) - bill fumerola - bi...@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfume...@computerhorizons.com - bi...@freebsd.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
Bill Fumerola wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. it can be called anything. the new user isn't going to know it unless refered to it. (or unless there is a question mark to click) Now there's an idea! Someone wanna code up wmrtfm real quick? It should start an rxvt (if available) or xterm running rtfm on strings that are dropped onto or pasted into the dock icon. You know, being a program designer is a WHOLE lot easier than being a programmer. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ w...@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Wed, Jul 7, 1999, Wes Peters wrote: Now there's an idea! Someone wanna code up wmrtfm real quick? It should start an rxvt (if available) or xterm running rtfm on strings that are dropped onto or pasted into the dock icon. Wait until someone writes grtfm! GNOME support, panel applet, comes with Perl, C, C++, and Pascal bindings... You know, being a program designer is a WHOLE lot easier than being a programmer. ;^) Most consumers are program designers. I want it to control my printer and my modem and I want it done NOW. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com There are always at least two ways to program the same thing. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
Put it in the .login or /etc/csh.login (etc.) file. They'll see it every time they log in. -Mark Taylor NetMAX Developer mtay...@cybernet.com http://www.netmax.com/ Wes Peters wrote: Bill Fumerola wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. it can be called anything. the new user isn't going to know it unless refered to it. (or unless there is a question mark to click) Now there's an idea! Someone wanna code up wmrtfm real quick? It should start an rxvt (if available) or xterm running rtfm on strings that are dropped onto or pasted into the dock icon. You know, being a program designer is a WHOLE lot easier than being a programmer. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ w...@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
RE: 'rtfm' script
-Original Message- From: Alex Zepeda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:43 AM To: Chris Costello Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: 'rtfm' script P.S. If you're looking for an easy to use regexp implementation, and aren't afraid of C++, check out Qt; if you're looking for more of a challenge, there's always the need for an rtsl(1) ;) [ML] BSD (donated by Henry Spencer) regexp is easy enough to use (RTFM suffices, believe me) and even easier to port to platforms which do not have it in libc[1] /Marino [1] If you ever wondered why Windows applications all use different syntaxes for wildcard searches, if they support them at all, now you know. BTW, it took only two strategic unsigned's to shut the VC++ warnings up--that's all the porting "effort" one needed to spend. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? Feeling a little dense, Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Doug wrote: I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? It differs in that it _uses_ apropos (or 'whatis' if you specify the -e flag), as well as a Texinfo search, as well as a FAQ search, using the FAQ pages at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/. It's meant to be an information center for those just getting started with FreeBSD. Doug -- Chris Costello[EMAIL PROTECTED] It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Doug wrote: I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? It differs in that it _uses_ apropos (or 'whatis' if you specify the -e flag), as well as a Texinfo search, as well as a FAQ search, using the FAQ pages at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/. It's meant to be an information center for those just getting started with FreeBSD. RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). Doug -- Chris Costello[EMAIL PROTECTED] It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). That would cause problems with bash users. They already have a builtin help command. -- Chris Costello[EMAIL PROTECTED] On a clear disk you can seek forever. - Denning To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). That would cause problems with bash users. They already have a builtin help command. Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... help(1) is really a much more appropriate name. -- Chris Costello[EMAIL PROTECTED] On a clear disk you can seek forever. - Denning To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... No, that's a really stupid idea. Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. - Jordan Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
I think that whomever actually writes it will get to name it whatever the hell they way, that's what I think. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... No, that's a really stupid idea. Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. I think your logic is faulty here. There are already many adequate resources in the motd, but your argument for the 'rtfm script' presupposes that the person has not looked at the motd, because if they had they wouldn't need the script. Honestly, while this is one of those things that sounds good when you first start talking about it, in practice I don't see what we gain from it. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
libperl? Nick On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Joe Abley wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:11:57AM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: I've been encountering people recently who, for one reason or another, are unable to find information for themselves when they have a question on FreeBSD. I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and write a man page. The source is attached. It would be good if you could use fetch(1) instead of forming the HTTP request yourself. That way people who already have fetch working through proxies don't have to modify anything to use rtfm. Is there a particular reason you're writing it in perl? Mostly regexp and such. If I can figure out how to use the regexp code for C, I'd probably rewrite it. Joe -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Searching the Handbook (was Re: 'rtfm script')
I've added d...@freebsd.org to the distribution list, for obvious reasons. On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 02:16:36PM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: I'm in favor of the rtfm script. It's amazing the positive things that come out of an offhand IRC comment. [ from http://www.emsphone.com/FreeBSD/log.cgi/19990704.txt ] [15:33] cmc First it'll search the man pages. Then the handbook. Then the FAQ. Then, maybe see if I can find out if they start bitching, and if so, email Jesus Monroy. Note that I can't figure out a decent way to search the Handbook at this point, but I'm open to ideas. There are a couple of ways you could do it. Some of them more optimal than others. Executive summary: sgrep is probably your best choice now, which can can be found at URL:http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jjaakkol/sgrep.html. But read on for more. The simplest way is to assume that the user has the plain text handbook installed, and do a simple grep through that for what you're looking for. This is nice and easy to do, but doesn't take advantage of the additional smarts built in to the Handbook's native format. To do that requires some additional work. A brief recap for those not au fait with how the Handbook is organised in source form. The Handbook is 'marked up' in a language called DocBook. DocBook was designed specifically for formatting technical documentation, and looks a lot like HTML. However, instead of tags like em, b, ul, and so on, DocBook has tags like example, screen, userinput, devicename, filename, and so forth. A document that is marked up in DocBook therefore contains a lot of additional semantic information about the content (and very little formatting information). When the Handbook is converted to HTML, some of this semantic information is retained. For example, the DocBook source for an example that the user might want to copy verbatim would look like, screenprompt#/prompt userinputrm -rf //userinput/screen and might be converted to HTML that looks like blockquote class=screen ttspan class=prompt#/span span class=userinputrm -rf //span/tt /blockquote Lots more information can be found at http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/docproj-primer/. A smart searching mechanism will be able to use this additional semantic information to reject (or lower the rankings of) results that don't match what the user wanted. For example, suppose you're searching the Handbook for examples of the make(1) command in action. The simple string make occurs lots of times in the Handbook. However, you're only interested in those sections where it occurs *inside* a userinput element; all the other occurences can be ignored. For a simple rtfm(1) style search most of this can probably be ignored, and you can just search the plain text handbook. But even then you might want to provide switches that allow the user to specify: - Only match this word if found in an example - Only match this word if found in a title - Only match this word if found in a command name and so on. How do you do that? Good question. This has been on my list of things to investigate (at the back of my mind) for a while, but more important things have taken my time. If anyone's interested in doing this, here's what I've discovered. You could go the full SGML route. This would involve building an application that can parse the DocBook source of the Handbook (and other articles, and soon to be the FAQ) and allow the user to do their queries using this application. This is probably the most 'correct' route from a purist point of view, but is an awful lot of work. You could go the XML route. XML is the buzzword of the moment, can be thought of as being SGML-Lite. Writing an XML parser is much easier than writing an SGML parser, and you could write an XML aware application could parse the Handbook and other docs, returning results that only appeared inside certain elements. This is still a chunk of work, and the end user will need to keep an XML copy of the documentation somewhere on their disk. Converting from SGML to XML is not a hard problem for our documents though, so at least that hurdle is skipped. For an example of this, check out SCOOBS, at URL:http://www.scoobs.com/. This is still probably too heavyweight a solution though. *Much* simpler is to build a grep-alike that understands structured documents, but that doesn't care how those documents are structured. This is such a great idea that someone's already done it -- sgrep, which can be found at URL:http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jjaakkol/sgrep.html can search structured text (such as DocBook, HTML, or even mail files). Some examples of sgrep queries; sgrep 'start or \n .. (end or \n) containing Hello World' You can define macros in sgrep, so the above could be simplified to sgrep 'LINE containing Hello World
RE: 'rtfm' script
-Original Message- From: Alex Zepeda [SMTP:garba...@hooked.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:43 AM To: Chris Costello Cc: hack...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 'rtfm' script P.S. If you're looking for an easy to use regexp implementation, and aren't afraid of C++, check out Qt; if you're looking for more of a challenge, there's always the need for an rtsl(1) ;) [ML] BSD (donated by Henry Spencer) regexp is easy enough to use (RTFM suffices, believe me) and even easier to port to platforms which do not have it in libc[1] /Marino [1] If you ever wondered why Windows applications all use different syntaxes for wildcard searches, if they support them at all, now you know. BTW, it took only two strategic unsigned's to shut the VC++ warnings up--that's all the porting effort one needed to spend. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? Feeling a little dense, Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Doug wrote: I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? It differs in that it _uses_ apropos (or 'whatis' if you specify the -e flag), as well as a Texinfo search, as well as a FAQ search, using the FAQ pages at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/. It's meant to be an information center for those just getting started with FreeBSD. Doug -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Doug wrote: I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? It differs in that it _uses_ apropos (or 'whatis' if you specify the -e flag), as well as a Texinfo search, as well as a FAQ search, using the FAQ pages at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/. It's meant to be an information center for those just getting started with FreeBSD. RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). Doug -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ gr...@freebsd.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). That would cause problems with bash users. They already have a builtin help command. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com On a clear disk you can seek forever. - Denning To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). That would cause problems with bash users. They already have a builtin help command. Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... help(1) is really a much more appropriate name. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com On a clear disk you can seek forever. - Denning To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ gr...@freebsd.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). Sure it is. Some hapless newbie wanders into #FreeBDS on efnet, and asks an already answered question. Aside from a kick, and a possible ban, they're likely to be met with a chorus of rtfm, which in all likelyhood would prompt the inquisitive newbie to try and run rtfm. - alex I thought felt your touch In my car, on my clutch But I guess it's just someone who felt a lot like I remember you. - Translator To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 02:52:08PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). That would cause problems with bash users. They already have a builtin help command. Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... Ugh. No. Objection on the grounds of create more problems than it solves. We've already seen enough confusion from builtins such as time(1) having conflicting names. -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... No, that's a really stupid idea. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... No, that's a really stupid idea. Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. - Jordan Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ gr...@freebsd.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
I think that whomever actually writes it will get to name it whatever the hell they way, that's what I think. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... No, that's a really stupid idea. Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. I think your logic is faulty here. There are already many adequate resources in the motd, but your argument for the 'rtfm script' presupposes that the person has not looked at the motd, because if they had they wouldn't need the script. Honestly, while this is one of those things that sounds good when you first start talking about it, in practice I don't see what we gain from it. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Doug wrote: Honestly, while this is one of those things that sounds good when you first start talking about it, in practice I don't see what we gain from it. What we gain from it is really simple and can be obtained from looking at how it operates. It's a starting point for newbies looking for information. Often, people will say rtfm when someone asks for help on something that's pretty well documented. I've known many a newbie to try and see if an rtfm command exists. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Doug wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Which can be disabled in the bash port before the next release... No, that's a really stupid idea. Thanks! But still, I don't think rtfm is very appropriate... Can we look for something better, more obvious? Or perhaps it would be in the motd like /stand/sysinstall is people would need to be aware of this. I think your logic is faulty here. There are already many adequate resources in the motd, but your argument for the 'rtfm script' presupposes that the person has not looked at the motd, because if they had they wouldn't need the script. /bin/rtfmsh? Honestly, while this is one of those things that sounds good when you first start talking about it, in practice I don't see what we gain from it. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message Brian Fundakowski Feldman _ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ gr...@freebsd.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) | http://www.FreeBSD.org/ _ |___/___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Searching the Handbook (was Re: 'rtfm script')
On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: I've added d...@freebsd.org to the distribution list, for obvious reasons. On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 02:16:36PM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: Note that I can't figure out a decent way to search the Handbook at this point, but I'm open to ideas. There are a couple of ways you could do it. Some of them more optimal than others. Executive summary: sgrep is probably your best choice now, which can can be found at URL:http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jjaakkol/sgrep.html. But read on for more. The simplest way is to assume that the user has the plain text handbook installed, and do a simple grep through that for what you're looking for. See the FAQ parser. I want to be able to get meaningful output for users. sgrep is also not viable because it's not in the default system. This is nice and easy to do, but doesn't take advantage of the additional smarts built in to the Handbook's native format. To do that requires some additional work. The handbook's native format won't be on the default system, will it? They're all in HTML. A smart searching mechanism will be able to use this additional semantic information to reject (or lower the rankings of) results that don't match what the user wanted. See above. I want rtfm(1) to remain viable on base installs. For example, suppose you're searching the Handbook for examples of the make(1) command in action. The simple string make occurs lots of times in the Handbook. However, you're only interested in those sections where it occurs *inside* a userinput element; all the other occurences can be ignored. For a simple rtfm(1) style search most of this can probably be ignored, and you can just search the plain text handbook. But even then you might want to provide switches that allow the user to specify: - Only match this word if found in an example - Only match this word if found in a title - Only match this word if found in a command name This can only be done if the user can access the SGML files. First off, the SGML files are not installed by default. Accessing them online would require having to search every single one or one big one, which isn't a good idea at this point. You could go the full SGML route. This would involve building an application that can parse the DocBook source of the Handbook (and other articles, and soon to be the FAQ) and allow the user to do their queries using this application. This is probably the most 'correct' route from a purist point of view, but is an awful lot of work. If the FAQ is to be DocBook-ified, will the SGML sources be made availible via HTTP so rtfm(1) can still cleanly parse them with a minor rewrite of the FAQ section? *Much* simpler is to build a grep-alike that understands structured documents, but that doesn't care how those documents are structured. This is such a great idea that someone's already done it -- sgrep, which can be found at URL:http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~jjaakkol/sgrep.html can search structured text (such as DocBook, HTML, or even mail files). I'd have to integrate it into rtfm(1), and see above about access to the handbook. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com Computers are only human. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Searching the Handbook (was Re: 'rtfm script')
On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 11:55:26AM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: *Much* simpler is to build a grep-alike that understands structured documents, but that doesn't care how those documents are structured. This Perhaps dtags(1) a-la ctags(1). -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
Brian F. Feldman wrote: On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Doug wrote: I'm confused about this script. How does it differ from 'apropos'? It differs in that it _uses_ apropos (or 'whatis' if you specify the -e flag), as well as a Texinfo search, as well as a FAQ search, using the FAQ pages at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/. It's meant to be an information center for those just getting started with FreeBSD. RTFM isn't a newby-apparent term. Name it help(1). And link it to whatthehell(1). -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ w...@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
re: 'rtfm script'
I'm in favor of the rtfm script. It's amazing the positive things that come out of an offhand IRC comment. [ from http://www.emsphone.com/FreeBSD/log.cgi/19990704.txt ] [15:29] billf tribune: yes, RTFM. [15:29] billf we need rtfm(1) [15:30] billf rtfm(1) would search the man pages, FAQ, and handbook for the COMPLETLY clueless. [15:31] cmc billf: that rtfm command, I might write one. maybe it'll get people to shut the hell up ;) [15:32] cmc It'd be easy to do in Perl. [15:32] billf cmc: I'd import it for you. [15:32] sysctl rtfm would work good.. in perl even [15:32] sysctl have it translate between "rtfm subject" and "rtfm subject(1)" [15:33] cmc First it'll search the man pages. Then the handbook. Then the FAQ. Then, maybe see if I can find out if they start bitching, and if so, email Jesus Monroy. At that point the converstaion turned to talking about Irish soap carving and the fact that www.OpenBSD.org doesn't run OpenBSD. I guess I was wrong about IRC being positive. - bill fumerola - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm script'
On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: I'm in favor of the rtfm script. It's amazing the positive things that come out of an offhand IRC comment. [ from http://www.emsphone.com/FreeBSD/log.cgi/19990704.txt ] [15:33] cmc First it'll search the man pages. Then the handbook. Then the FAQ. Then, maybe see if I can find out if they start bitching, and if so, email Jesus Monroy. Note that I can't figure out a decent way to search the Handbook at this point, but I'm open to ideas. -- Chris Costello[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stack Error: Lost on a cluttered desk... To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Joe Abley wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:11:57AM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: I've been encountering people recently who, for one reason or another, are unable to find information for themselves when they have a question on FreeBSD. I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and write a man page. The source is attached. It would be good if you could use fetch(1) instead of forming the HTTP request yourself. That way people who already have fetch working through proxies don't have to modify anything to use rtfm. Is there a particular reason you're writing it in perl? Mostly regexp and such. If I can figure out how to use the regexp code for C, I'd probably rewrite it. Joe -- Chris Costello[EMAIL PROTECTED] The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Alex Zepeda wrote: P.S. If you're looking for an easy to use regexp implementation, and aren't afraid of C++, check out Qt; if you're looking for more of a challenge, there's always the need for an rtsl(1) ;) rtsl(1) = glimpse(1) : - bill fumerola - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
'rtfm' script
I've been encountering people recently who, for one reason or
another, are unable to find information for themselves when they
have a question on FreeBSD.
I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that
works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and
write a man page.
The source is attached.
Sample output:
(-s = simple, don't search sections 3, 4, or 9, and 'e' means
'exact', or 'use whatis instead of apropos')
-
$ rtfm -s -e ASCII
Manual pages found:
ascii(7)
hexdump(1)
map3270(5)
mset(1)
neqn(1)
od(1)
pfbtops(1)
Found FAQ entries:
1.18. Where can I get ASCII/PostScript versions of the FAQ?
http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ19.html#19
1.19. Where can I get ASCII/PostScript versions of the Handbook?
http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ20.html#20
1.20. The ASCII handbook isn't plain text!
http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ21.html#21
--
Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com
I'll rob that rich person and give it to some poor deserving slob.
That will *prove* I'm Robin Hood.
-- Daffy Duck, Robin Hood Daffy, [1958, Chuck Jones]
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
# Copyright (c) 1999 Chris Costello
# All rights reserved.
#
# Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
# modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
# are met:
# 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
#notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
# 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
#notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
#documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
#
# THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND
# ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
# IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
# ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE
# FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
# DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS
# OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION)
# HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT
# LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY
# OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
# SUCH DAMAGE.
use IO::Socket;
my ($mancnt, $line, @manuals, $manual, $simple, $exactword, @faqs);
my ($http_socket);
$mancnt = 0;
$simple = 0;
$exactword = 0;
# Somehow I need to be able to try and find a 'closest mirror'.
$http_server = 'www.freebsd.org';
$faq_path = '/FAQ';
usage if $#ARGV 0;
while ($_ = $ARGV[0], /^-/) {
shift(@ARGV);
if (/^-s/) { $simple++; } # see simple description in man page
elsif (/^-e/) { $exactword++; }
elsif (/^-h/) { usage }
}
$ent = $ARGV[0];
$prog = whatis if $exactword;
$prog = apropos unless defined($prog);
# First check to see if we have a man page.
open(APROPOS, $prog $ent|) || die error encountered running $prog: $!;
while (defined($line = APROPOS)) {
chomp($line);
$mancnt++;
if ($line =~ /$ent: nothing appropriate/) { last; }
# innovation.
$line =~ s/^(.+?)\(([0-9nqt]+?)\).*/$2 $1/g;
push(@manuals, $line);
}
close(APROPOS);
if ($mancnt 0) {
print Manual pages found:\n;
foreach $manual (@manuals) {
my ($sect, $mman) = split(/ /, $manual);
if ($simple 0 ($sect =~ /[349qt]+/)) {
next;
}
print$mman($sect)\n;
}
}
$http_socket = IO::Socket::INET-new($http_server . ':80');
print $http_socket GET $faq_path/ HTTP/1.0\r\n\r\n;
while (defined($line = $http_socket)) {
chomp($line);
# superiority.
if ($line =~ /^DD(.+?)A HREF=\(.+?)\(.+?).*$/) {
my ($faq_ent, $faq_page, $faq_question);
$faq_ent = $1;
$faq_page = $2;
$faq_question = $3;
if ($faq_question =~ /$ent/) {
push(@faqs, sprintf(%s|%s|%s, $faq_ent, $faq_page,
$faq_question));
}
}
}
close($http_socket);
print \nFound FAQ entries:\n;
foreach (@faqs) {
my ($faq_ent, $faq_page, $faq_question) = split(/\|/);
print$faq_ent $faq_question\n
http://$http_server/FAQ/$faq_page\n;;
}
# usage:
# prints usage info and exits.
sub usage {
print STDERR usage: rtfm command\n;
exit 1;
}
Re: 'rtfm script'
On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: I'm in favor of the rtfm script. It's amazing the positive things that come out of an offhand IRC comment. [ from http://www.emsphone.com/FreeBSD/log.cgi/19990704.txt ] [15:33] cmc First it'll search the man pages. Then the handbook. Then the FAQ. Then, maybe see if I can find out if they start bitching, and if so, email Jesus Monroy. Note that I can't figure out a decent way to search the Handbook at this point, but I'm open to ideas. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com Stack Error: Lost on a cluttered desk... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm script'
At that point the converstaion turned to talking about Irish soap carving and the fact that www.OpenBSD.org doesn't run OpenBSD. I guess I was wrong about IRC being positive. Well, you can blame the first bit of surrealism on jkh, the poor fella has some awful ideas about what the Irish do in their spare time. God bless him. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and write a man page. [...] (-s = simple, don't search sections 3, 4, or 9, and 'e' means 'exact', or 'use whatis instead of apropos') If rtfm(1) is really for newbies and other clueless people, perhaps it should be made interactive. I mean, this whole idea sounds like it's geared towards people who wouldn't know what sections 3, 4, or 9 are. - alex I thought felt your touch In my car, on my clutch But I guess it's just someone who felt a lot like I remember you. - Translator To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Alex Zepeda wrote: I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and write a man page. [...] (-s = simple, don't search sections 3, 4, or 9, and 'e' means 'exact', or 'use whatis instead of apropos') If rtfm(1) is really for newbies and other clueless people, perhaps it should be made interactive. I mean, this whole idea sounds like it's geared towards people who wouldn't know what sections 3, 4, or 9 are. It'll probably have a lot of changes in the actual interface if people accept it as useful or not. I may have 'simple' (default to don't search 3, 4, and 9) on as default. -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:11:57AM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: I've been encountering people recently who, for one reason or another, are unable to find information for themselves when they have a question on FreeBSD. I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and write a man page. The source is attached. It would be good if you could use fetch(1) instead of forming the HTTP request yourself. That way people who already have fetch working through proxies don't have to modify anything to use rtfm. Is there a particular reason you're writing it in perl? Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, Jul 5, 1999, Joe Abley wrote: On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:11:57AM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: I've been encountering people recently who, for one reason or another, are unable to find information for themselves when they have a question on FreeBSD. I propose an rtfm(1) command, and I've got some Perl code that works. If people are interested, I will continue with it, and write a man page. The source is attached. It would be good if you could use fetch(1) instead of forming the HTTP request yourself. That way people who already have fetch working through proxies don't have to modify anything to use rtfm. Is there a particular reason you're writing it in perl? Mostly regexp and such. If I can figure out how to use the regexp code for C, I'd probably rewrite it. Joe -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
I've added texinfo searching and made it use fetch(1) instead for those behind proxies. Is there any word as to whether this might be imported into the actual tree or if I should just make it a port? -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com Machine independent code isn't. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
The updated version (with support for texinfo searching, and use of fetch(1)) is availible at http://www.calldei.com/~chris/rtfm.pl -- Chris Costelloch...@calldei.com It is now pitch dark. If you proceed, you will likely fall into a pit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: If rtfm(1) is really for newbies and other clueless people, perhaps it should be made interactive. I mean, this whole idea sounds like it's geared towards people who wouldn't know what sections 3, 4, or 9 are. It'll probably have a lot of changes in the actual interface if people accept it as useful or not. I may have 'simple' (default to don't search 3, 4, and 9) on as default. This sounds like a good idea. Now, ideally, I'd love to see something that could take an english phrase and figure out where to go from there. Sort of like an Ask Jeeves (ask.com) for FreeBSD newbies. This is not to say that the more advanced options wouldn't be useful; I could personally find a use for something to search the handbook, FAQs and man pages at once. I think I'll volunteer a few of my newbie friends once this progresses a bit further. P.S. If you're looking for an easy to use regexp implementation, and aren't afraid of C++, check out Qt; if you're looking for more of a challenge, there's always the need for an rtsl(1) ;) - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: 'rtfm' script
On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Alex Zepeda wrote: P.S. If you're looking for an easy to use regexp implementation, and aren't afraid of C++, check out Qt; if you're looking for more of a challenge, there's always the need for an rtsl(1) ;) rtsl(1) = glimpse(1) : - bill fumerola - bi...@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfume...@computerhorizons.com - bi...@freebsd.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
