On Saturday 22 March 2008 11:20:07 am Oliver Fromme wrote:
M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: The vkernel feature has certainly benefits, e.g. the fact
: that you can attach to it with standard gdb and use the
M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: The vkernel feature has certainly benefits, e.g. the fact
: that you can attach to it with standard gdb and use the
: familiar debugging facilities, which can attract more
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: The vkernel feature has certainly benefits, e.g. the fact
: that you can attach to it with standard gdb and use the
: familiar debugging facilities, which can attract more
Can't you say qemu -s and attach gdb to
On Wednesday 19 March 2008 06:48:46 pm Matthew Dillon wrote:
:Matthew Dillon wrote:
: :Matt,
:
:...
:
: :Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging?
:
: We use vkernel's for development and debugging. Pretty much
: everything except hardware device driver
:Except that you still need real hardware concurrency to see some races and
:that is important for testing. I'd worry about the overhead of any
:non-hardware assisted virtualization basically enforcing more serialization
:and coherency than is present in real-world systems meaning that code
From: Matthew Dillon
To: John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Except that you still need real hardware concurrency to see some races and
:that is important for testing. I'd worry about the overhead of any
Hardware and vkernel/qemu environments exercise different code paths
and different
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:42:57AM +0200, Jordan Gordeev wrote:
vkernel is similar to User Mode Linux technology. You can boot vkernel as a
user mode process. I think it will be good to have similar in FreeBSD.
There are several links:
Hi,
Sorry for jumping in here, but I've seen several people
talking about that 5 seconds to reboot thing ...
Are you aware that a standard FreeBSD kernel also takes
just 5 seconds to reboot within qemu? And that's even
when _not_ using the kqemu accelerator module.
I've used qemu a lot for
:Matthew Dillon wrote:
: :Matt,
:...
: :Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging?
:
: We use vkernel's for development and debugging. Pretty much everything
: except hardware device driver development can be done using a vkernel...
:
:Does that include trying
://www.elusiva.com
-Original Message-
From: Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Igor Shmukler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Re[4]: vkernel GSoC, some questions
:
:Matt,
:
:You sure won't argue that UML isolation is inherently better than
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 01:16:41PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote:
This reminds me of XEN. Basically instead of trying to rewrite
instructions or do 100% hardware emulation it sounds like they are
providing XEN-like functionality where the target OS is aware it is
running inside a
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Peter Jeremy wrote:
with the BIOS, and see BIOSes then respec to a new far cleaner API.
The
BIOS is the stinking pile of horseshit that has held back OS development
for the last 15 years.
I'd go further and say that BIOSes are getting worse: Back in the
:Matt,
:
:We use VMWare Server at work. It does not have the same nice image management
interface and/or video capture as commercial counterparts. However, it is is
free and testing on it helps us out big time. We never concluded whether it
maked sense to pay for VMWare licenses, instead of
Matthew Dillon wrote:
:Matt,
:
:We use VMWare Server at work. It does not have the same nice image management
interface and/or video capture as commercial counterparts. However, it is is
free and testing on it helps us out big time. We never concluded whether it
maked sense to pay for VMWare
Jordan Gordeev wrote:
Matthew Dillon wrote:
We use vkernel's for development and debugging.
...
One interesting side-effect of having a vkernel so easily accessible
is that it opens up kernel development to normal programmers. More
DragonFly developers have been dipping their
Matthew Dillon wrote:
:Matt,
...
:Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging?
We use vkernel's for development and debugging. Pretty much everything
except hardware device driver development can be done using a vkernel...
Does that include trying to get rid
Hi all,
Aren't we working on a FreeBSD/Xen port ???
I think we don't need a Linux like KVM or DragonFly's vkernel, if we
could run FreeBSD in dom0.
Thank a lot
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:09 AM, Kip Macy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 8:06 PM, Adrian Chadd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Well, I don't think I would agree with your assessment but,
: particularly, the way vkernels are implemented in DragonFly is NOT
: in the least disruptive to kernel source.
:
:I was referring to the decision you made to rename all of the kernel
:functions that conflicted with libc
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Basically DragonFly has a syscall API that allows a userland process
to create and completely control any number of VM spaces, including
the ability to pass execution control to a VM space and get it back,
Matthew Dillon wrote:
: Well, I don't think I would agree with your assessment but,
: particularly, the way vkernels are implemented in DragonFly is NOT
: in the least disruptive to kernel source.
:
:I was referring to the decision you made to rename all of the kernel
:functions
Maslan wrote:
Hi all,
Aren't we working on a FreeBSD/Xen port ???
I think we don't need a Linux like KVM or DragonFly's vkernel, if we
could run FreeBSD in dom0.
I agree that people interested in virtualization will get the most
return on investment if they contribute to the Xen port, large
:Matt, I'm sorry I'm not trying to hijack this thread but isn't the vkernel
:approach very similar to VMWare's hosted architecture products (such as
:Fusion for the Mac and Client Workstation for windows)?
:
:As I understand it, they have a regular process like vkernel called
:vmware-vmx which
:I don't think there's an issue that needs solving, GCC has -nostdlib and
:-fno-builtin for precisely this reason.
You are missing the point entirely. The point is to allow the vkernel
to use libc, aka allow it to be compiled, linked, and run as a normal
user process. What is your
Some interesting reading for anyone who cares:
Matthew Dillon wrote:
:I don't think there's an issue that needs solving, GCC has -nostdlib and
:-fno-builtin for precisely this reason.
You are missing the point entirely. The point is to allow the vkernel
to use libc, aka allow it to be compiled, linked, and run as a normal
user
Matthew Dillon wrote:
In all three cases the emulated hardware -- disk and network basically,
devolves down into calling read() or write() or the real-kernel
equivalent. A hypervisor has the most work to do since it is trying to
emulate a hardware interface (adding another
:
:If your goal is to link vkernels with libc then by definition you are
:forced to resolve the namespace conflicts, but I don't see this as a
:necessary goal. A minimal standalone libkernel would do the same thing
:without requiring global changes to the kernel namespace, which would
Kris Kennaway wrote:
Matthew Dillon wrote:
:I don't think there's an issue that needs solving, GCC has -nostdlib
and :-fno-builtin for precisely this reason.
You are missing the point entirely. The point is to allow the
vkernel
to use libc, aka allow it to be compiled, linked, and
Matthew Dillon wrote:
I guess my problem is that you are holding this up as a red flag when
it isn't even remotely close to being one.
What I have said is that the dragonfly vkernel work is the interesting
beginning of a project, but that further work needs to be done before
the
: In all three cases the emulated hardware -- disk and network basically,
: devolves down into calling read() or write() or the real-kernel
: equivalent. A hypervisor has the most work to do since it is trying to
: emulate a hardware interface (adding another layer). XEN has
:
:Matt,
:
:You sure won't argue that UML isolation is inherently better than one that can
be provided by a hypervisor. If the performance is the same, what are you
gaining?
:
:Hypervisor while slow, allows treating a complete OS with all applications as
a black box. Why would I choose UML
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 02:58:40PM +0200, Jordan Gordeev wrote:
I am a student who considers applying for Google's Summer of Code
programme.
One of my ideas for a GSoC project has the following synopsis:
Add virtual kernel (vkernel) support to FreeBSD for the i386 and amd64
16.03.08, 09:30, David O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Add virtual kernel (vkernel) support to FreeBSD for the i386 and amd64
architectures.
The vkernel support in question is the one found in DragonFlyBSD.
Not being up on DragonFlyBSD, can you better describe what vkernel is?
vkernel is
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:30:25 -0500, David O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 02:58:40PM +0200, Jordan Gordeev wrote:
I am a student who considers applying for Google's Summer of Code
programme.
One of my ideas for a GSoC project has the following synopsis:
Add
Andrey V. Elsukov wrote:
16.03.08, 09:30, David O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Add virtual kernel (vkernel) support to FreeBSD for the i386 and amd64
architectures.
The vkernel support in question is the one found in DragonFlyBSD.
Not being up on DragonFlyBSD, can you better
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote:
16.03.08, 09:30, David O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Add virtual kernel (vkernel) support to FreeBSD for the i386 and amd64
architectures.
The vkernel support in question is the one found in DragonFlyBSD.
Not being up on DragonFlyBSD, can you
Jordan Gordeev wrote:
Hello!
I am a student who considers applying for Google's Summer of Code
programme.
One of my ideas for a GSoC project has the following synopsis:
Add virtual kernel (vkernel) support to FreeBSD for the i386 and
amd64 architectures.
The vkernel support in question
at the time, but we have found none.
-Original Message-
From: Robert Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Andrey V. Elsukov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:56:21 + (GMT)
Subject: Re: vkernel GSoC, some questions
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote:
16.03.08, 09:30, David
Basically DragonFly has a syscall API that allows a userland process
to create and completely control any number of VM spaces, including
the ability to pass execution control to a VM space and get it back,
and control memory mappings within that VM space (and in the virtual
:
:Given the fact that there are not as many developers as needed, what would be
a practical purpose of vkernel?
:
:UML is typically used to debug drivers and/or for hosting. Now that Linux
about to have or already has container technology, hosting on UML makes little
sense.
The single
:Finally, the way vkernels were implemented in dragonfly was *very*
:disruptive to the kernel source (lots of function renaming etc), so it
:is likely that this would also have to be completely reimplemented in a
:FreeBSD port.
:...
:Kris
Well, I don't think I would agree with your
Matthew Dillon wrote:
:Finally, the way vkernels were implemented in dragonfly was *very*
:disruptive to the kernel source (lots of function renaming etc), so it
:is likely that this would also have to be completely reimplemented in a
:FreeBSD port.
:...
:Kris
Well, I don't think I would
On 16/03/2008, Robert Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another avenue to consider is the Linux KVM virtualization technology, which
is seeing a high level of interest in the Linux community and sounds
increasingly mature and well-exercised. It would also offer interesting
migration
Shmukler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:12:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: vkernel GSoC, some questions
:
:Given the fact that there are not as many developers as needed, what would
be a practical purpose of vkernel?
:
:UML is typically used to debug drivers
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 8:06 PM, Adrian Chadd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 16/03/2008, Robert Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another avenue to consider is the Linux KVM virtualization technology,
which
is seeing a high level of interest in the Linux community and sounds
increasingly
Hello!
I am a student who considers applying for Google's Summer of Code programme.
One of my ideas for a GSoC project has the following synopsis:
Add virtual kernel (vkernel) support to FreeBSD for the i386 and
amd64 architectures.
The vkernel support in question is the one found in
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