Re: Jive prejudices

[Horatiu Moldovan]

On 24/10/2016 03:22, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

scratch65...@att.net wrote:

For policy, I'd suggest the creation of a flag "Socially
deprecated" that would leave it in the tree but clue people up
that there's potentially something unsavory about it.

Snap ! Seconded :-)

Same as my Mon, 24 Oct 2016 01:05:52 +0200
SENSITIVE=  
but datestamps show you thought of it first :-)

Cheers,
Julian
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Maybe off-topic, but I can't help wondering if we're close to the point 
when a port should be removed because someone finds a variable/type name 
"offensive".

Am I being paranoid? Let's wait and see.

---

H.

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Re: Fails to build math/libqalculate

[Jason E. Hale]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Kevin Oberman  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Baho Utot 
> wrote:
>
>> Sending this again as I have had mail server issues
>>
>> There is no src/Makefile.in only src/Makefile.am
>>
>>
>> /usr/ports/math/libqalculate # make
>> ===>  License GPLv2 accepted by the user
>> ===>  Found saved configuration for libqalculate-0.9.10
>> ===>   libqalculate-0.9.10 depends on file: /usr/local/sbin/pkg - found
>> ===> Fetching all distfiles required by libqalculate-0.9.10 for building
>> ===>  Extracting for libqalculate-0.9.10
>> => SHA256 Checksum OK for Qalculate-libqalculate-v0.9.10_GH0.tar.gz.
>> ===>  Patching for libqalculate-0.9.10
>> ===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for libqalculate-0.9.10
>> File to patch:
>> No file found--skip this patch? [n] y
>> 1 out of 1 hunks ignored--saving rejects to Oops.rej
>> => Patch patch-src-Makefile.in failed to apply cleanly.
>> => Patch(es) patch-libqalculate.pc.in applied cleanly.
>> *** Error code 1
>>
>> Stop.
>> make[1]: stopped in /usr/ports/math/libqalculate
>> *** Error code 1
>>
>> Stop.
>> make: stopped in /usr/ports/math/libqalculate
>>
>
> You seem to have a bogus file in the port directory as this port contains
> no patches.
>  # ls /usr/ports/math/qalculate
> Makefiledistinfopkg-descrpkg-plist
>
> Patches are placed in a "files" directory and thee is no such directory. I
> have also checked the repository and it has 0.9.10, but no FreeBSD patches.
>
> If you use svn to update your ports tree, I'd suggest:
> # rm /usr/ports/math/qalculate/*
> #svn up /usr/ports/math/qalculate/
>
> If you use portsnap, this simply should not happen as it should remove any
> stale files.
> --

Hi, I am the maintainer of math/libqalculate and math/qalculate.

Kevin, you are right that there is a stale patch file, but you are
confusing libqalculate and qalculate. The OP seems to be having
trouble with the former.  There should be only one patch for
math/libqalculate: files/patch-libqalculate.pc.in.

Baho, as suggested by Kevin, something got messed up with your ports
tree and you should checkout math/libqalculate again. If you have more
trouble with it, you can contact me directly as I don't often look at
this list.
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FreeBSD Port: graphics/aoi

[داايم سعوودي]

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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Thomas Mueller]

> Why can't we accept that a program which may be well over 30 years old,
> hasn't seen any update since 20 years, is more or less lost since some
> time and has no technical value (it's just some parody of a text filter)
> can be removed from the tree? Anyone who needs this port can install it
> on their own.
 
> Regards,
> Christoph

I found misc/jive in NetBSD pkgsrc, and might build and install it in NetBSD, 
since it is small and my curiosity is aroused.

But misc/jive does not like something particularly valuable or important.

Regardive offensiveness, what I really find offensive is the notion of 
political correctness; people should not be so tongue-tied.

Tom

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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Kurt Jaeger]

Hi!

> > that makes them look like a bunch of out-of-touch clueless old white
> > guys;
> 
> Inflamatory language degrades,  Mature language builds.

In a mail thread about jive that finding is very mature 8-}

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Re: Jive prejudices

[Julian H. Stacey]

scratch65...@att.net wrote:
> For policy, I'd suggest the creation of a flag "Socially
> deprecated" that would leave it in the tree but clue people up
> that there's potentially something unsavory about it.

Snap ! Seconded :-)

Same as my Mon, 24 Oct 2016 01:05:52 +0200
SENSITIVE=  
but datestamps show you thought of it first :-)

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi, Reference:
> From: Mark Linimon 
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:11:07 -0500

Mark Linimon wrote Henk van Oers  :
> Thank you for your very nice troll.
> 
> I was going to work on some FreeBSD stuff today but now I think
> I'll find something better to do.

Enjoy the break !  As you've pushed many ports deletions last years & it
leaves scar tissue,  writing your own new code could be more fun & productive.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Julian H. Stacey]

> Beside any discussion on wether or not misc/jives was offensive, note that =
> there
> is actually no upstream and no public distfile left for this port, this is =
> also
> a reason for it to be nuked.

I have a distfile (as obviously do various others who have similarly just
compiled for first time to see what censors want to destroy) I could
put it on a public URL any time but no point until someone reports a
search engine won't find it somewhere else.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Julian H. Stacey]

Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 01:31:04PM +0200, Alphons van Werven wrote:
> > I'm still half waiting for someone with misguided delusions of moral
> > superiority to delete that port, thinking it's their decision to make
> > that FreeBSD must not enable people to display their system load as a
> > cartoon woman in various stages of undress.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not delusions of moral superiority.  It's common decency.

"Common decency" is disputable even in within USA; Europe is less
infested with USA style prissy "political correctness", & other
places less than Europe.  Censorship of Global FreeBSD to USA norms
is Offensive.


> There's no "censorship" if the FreeBSD developers make a collective
> decision that they don't want to be associated with juvenile junk

Some will consider games/* & misc/jive etc juvenile,  & other ports offensive
for licence or many other reasons.  Tolerate them all, Live & let live.

The vast majority of commiters are innocent.  Just a few ports butchers
have degraded FreeBSD, removing working ports in last few years.

Rather than delete or move sensitive ports to a new SUBDIR, causing
disruption, & SVN work, Add a flag to bsd.port.mk
like NO_CDROM eg SENSITIVE= (like a TV / Cinema adults only flag).


> that makes them look like a bunch of out-of-touch clueless old white
> guys;

Inflamatory language degrades,  Mature language builds.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Christoph Moench-Tegeder]

## Mikhail T. (mi+t...@aldan.algebra.com):

> > It's not delusions of moral superiority.  It's common decency.
> If it was "decent" in 1997, when obrien added it, it must still be 
> decent today, only 19 years later. Nothing has changed about "decency" 
> since then.

Oh, it has changed. And it keeps changing, that's how it goes with
social norms, culture etc.
Mark has already explained that at least some of the terms are
clearly offensive. This offensivenes may be more obvious to him as
a native speaker, especially given that one needs some background to
understand what this program tried to "parodize" and where some of
the terms are derived from.

Why can't we accept that a program which may be well over 30 years old,
hasn't seen any update since 20 years, is more or less lost since some
time and has no technical value (it's just some parody of a text filter)
can be removed from the tree? Anyone who needs this port can install it
on their own.

Regards,
Christoph

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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Mikhail T.]

On 22.10.2016 Mark Linimon wrote:

It's not delusions of moral superiority.  It's common decency.


If it was "decent" in 1997, when obrien added it, it must still be 
decent today, only 19 years later. Nothing has changed about "decency" 
since then.



juvenile junk that makes them look like a bunch of out-of-touch clueless old 
white guys


Somebody got his metaphors mixed up -- if it is "juvenile", then "old 
guys" (of any color) just does not ring true.


On 23.10.2016 12:03, Kurt Jaeger wrote:

So, lets get back to technical stuff 8-}


Technically, the only reason to remove a port is due to a failure to 
build -- and that hasn't happened. Therefore, the removal was in error, 
which should be rectified.


   -mi

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Re: Jive prejudices

[Roger Marquis]

Rod Person wrote:

anything that can used to create text or graphics can be used to promote
hatred, discrimination or violence


"can used to" != "promotes" && "recursive logic" != "logic.  Surely
there are better arguments against deprecating jive.

If PyCon can implement a Code of Conduct without substantive
disagreement why shouldn't FreeBSD do the same for ports?  It would not
have to be universally agreed to but should be acceptable to a
substantial majority.

Note that this has nothing to do with any particular port.  Most of us
still have no idea what made jive unacceptable other than the fact that
it was unmaintained and had no repository.

IMO,
Roger

Ref: 
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Re: Jive prejudices

[scratch65535]

[Default] On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 20:32:00 +0200, Martin Waschbüsch
 wrote:

>
>> Am 23.10.2016 um 20:00 schrieb scratch65...@att.net:
>> 
>> For policy, I'd suggest the creation of a flag "Socially
>> deprecated" that would leave it in the tree but clue people up
>> that there's potentially something unsavory about it.
>
>As others have already said, it is unlikely that we could come up with a 
>definition of 'unsavory' that is universally accepted.
>Also, I doubt that anything technical we could come up with could adequately 
>address this issue as it is not technical in nature.
>
>I propose that no classification whatsoever be implemented.
>
>If at all necessary, we could have a disclaimer stating that it is no 
>endorsement of any kind whatsoever if a piece of software is in the ports tree.
>
>Martin

We wouldn't need to come up with a definition:  merely flagging
it with "socially deprecated" would suffice.  Or, I suppose, we
could paraphrase Ed Dijkstra's (in)famous editor and flag them
"Port considered harmful" :-)
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[scratch65535]

[Default] On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 20:30:05 +0200, Matthias Apitz
 wrote:

>El día Sunday, October 23, 2016 a las 02:13:12PM -0400, scratch65...@att.net 
>escribió:
>
>> I've to disagree, Matthias.   Technical people refusing to be
>> part of the social world make themselves the tools of
>> psychopaths.  Then we have, as the mordant joke goes, the program
>> nuke_germany being objected to not on humanitarian grounds, but
>> because the program should be nuke_country with the target name
>> being passed as an arg.
>
>I do not understand your reply. It already starts with top posting, what
>I do not understand. Your message itself, I do no understand either due
>to my poor English knowledge or the grammar and syntaxis of your
>lines.
>
>   matthias

I'd be surprised if my top posting really prevented your being
able to understand me, Matthias, :-)  but let me try again, using
different syntax.

Technical people live in the consensual world, not in some
special sanitised world where only bits and bytes are real.

Because technical people live in the same world everyone else
lives in, we must not pretend that social questions are someone
else's problem.

The reason we must not pretend is that psychopaths (those who
have no conscience, and exploit other living creatures  without
hesitation or remorse) would use us for their purposes.  And,
like poleznye duraki / nützliche Idioten, we would obey them
willingly.

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Re: links not created by make install

[Baptiste Daroussin]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 08:15:34PM +0200, Piotr Szafarczyk wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Tell me where / how to diagnose the error please.
> 
> I have got a system upgraded from 10.1. Problems started with rebuilding
> ports depending on perl. bin/perl5 and bin/perl5.20.3 were missing. It looks
> like port building does not create links (after perl the same was with
> postfix, freeze). Regular files are OK.
> 
> Freeze is a simple port, best to investigate. Everything looks good at
> first:
> 
> tar tvf work/pkg/freeze-2.5_2.txz
> ... /usr/local/bin/fcat
> ... /usr/local/bin/freeze link to /usr/local/bin/fcat
> [...]
> 
> ls -l work/stage/usr/local/bin
> -r-xr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  22912 Oct 23 17:30 fcat
> -r-xr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  22912 Oct 23 17:30 freeze
> [...]
> 
> cat work/.PLIST.flattened
> /usr/local/bin/fcat
> /usr/local/bin/freeze
> [...]
> 
> However there are no freeze and unfreeze under bin after make install. Only
> fcat is in /usr/local/bin.
> 
> While playing with the port I receive errors when deinstalling tries to
> remove links:
> [smtpin.ibles.waw.pl] [1/1] Deleting files for freeze-2.5_2:   9%
> freeze-2.5_2: missing file /usr/local/bin/freeze
> [...]
> 
> I cannot find what is going wrong when installing (even with -d flags).
> 
> How should I debug this? Where and how to look for a cause of this problem?

I have just tried with the current freeze pkg and I cannot reproduce, everything
work fine: hardlinks are properly created and all the files are properly removed
with pkg delete.

Best regards,
Bapt


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Re: Jive prejudices

[Martin Waschbüsch]

> Am 23.10.2016 um 20:00 schrieb scratch65...@att.net:
> 
> For policy, I'd suggest the creation of a flag "Socially
> deprecated" that would leave it in the tree but clue people up
> that there's potentially something unsavory about it.

As others have already said, it is unlikely that we could come up with a 
definition of 'unsavory' that is universally accepted.
Also, I doubt that anything technical we could come up with could adequately 
address this issue as it is not technical in nature.

I propose that no classification whatsoever be implemented.

If at all necessary, we could have a disclaimer stating that it is no 
endorsement of any kind whatsoever if a piece of software is in the ports tree.

Martin
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Sunday, October 23, 2016 a las 02:13:12PM -0400, scratch65...@att.net 
escribió:

> I've to disagree, Matthias.   Technical people refusing to be
> part of the social world make themselves the tools of
> psychopaths.  Then we have, as the mordant joke goes, the program
> nuke_germany being objected to not on humanitarian grounds, but
> because the program should be nuke_country with the target name
> being passed as an arg.

I do not understand your reply. It already starts with top posting, what
I do not understand. Your message itself, I do no understand either due
to my poor English knowledge or the grammar and syntaxis of your
lines.

matthias
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links not created by make install

[Piotr Szafarczyk]

Hi All,

Tell me where / how to diagnose the error please.

I have got a system upgraded from 10.1. Problems started with rebuilding 
ports depending on perl. bin/perl5 and bin/perl5.20.3 were missing. It 
looks like port building does not create links (after perl the same was 
with postfix, freeze). Regular files are OK.


Freeze is a simple port, best to investigate. Everything looks good at 
first:


tar tvf work/pkg/freeze-2.5_2.txz
... /usr/local/bin/fcat
... /usr/local/bin/freeze link to /usr/local/bin/fcat
[...]

ls -l work/stage/usr/local/bin
-r-xr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  22912 Oct 23 17:30 fcat
-r-xr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  22912 Oct 23 17:30 freeze
[...]

cat work/.PLIST.flattened
/usr/local/bin/fcat
/usr/local/bin/freeze
[...]

However there are no freeze and unfreeze under bin after make install. 
Only fcat is in /usr/local/bin.


While playing with the port I receive errors when deinstalling tries to 
remove links:

[smtpin.ibles.waw.pl] [1/1] Deleting files for freeze-2.5_2:   9%
freeze-2.5_2: missing file /usr/local/bin/freeze
[...]

I cannot find what is going wrong when installing (even with -d flags).

How should I debug this? Where and how to look for a cause of this problem?

Regards,
Piotr
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[scratch65535]

I've to disagree, Matthias.   Technical people refusing to be
part of the social world make themselves the tools of
psychopaths.  Then we have, as the mordant joke goes, the program
nuke_germany being objected to not on humanitarian grounds, but
because the program should be nuke_country with the target name
being passed as an arg.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 18:04:04 +0200, Matthias Apitz
 wrote:

>
>I think, we should end this thread. The port was removed, sure with good 
>reasons. If someone wants to use it. he can pull out from svn the old port 
>and continue with it to maintain.
>
>matthias
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Re: Jive prejudices

[scratch65535]

For policy, I'd suggest the creation of a flag "Socially
deprecated" that would leave it in the tree but clue people up
that there's potentially something unsavory about it.

 On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 06:41:10 -0700 (PDT), Roger Marquis
 wrote:

>Louis Epstein wrote:
>> You really need to have a hands-off policy on what software people use.
>
>The meaning of this is unclear as anyone can still compile jive on their
>own outside of the ports tree.  WRT ports, they should be subject to the
>same policies as base.
>
>The meta questions here are: A) does FreeBSD have a policy restricting
>software that promotes hatred, discrimination or violence (IMO it
>should) and, if so B) does jive violate that policy.
>
>Before we can have any substantive discussion of a particular port we
>should have consensus on policy.
>
>Roger
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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Mark Linimon]

Thank you for your very nice troll.

I was going to work on some FreeBSD stuff today but now I think
I'll find something better to do.

mcl
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Re: Jive prejudices

[Louis Epstein]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016, Alphons van Werven wrote:

> Louis Epstein wrote:
>
> > In any event,portmaster -a -i updates now abort because misc/jive is
> > detected on my system.
> >
> > This goes beyond "We will no longer provide this application" to
> > "we will no longer let you upgrade your applications as long as you
> > have this one installed".
>
> To be fair, I strongly doubt this is deliberate policy.
>
> Portmaster itself is a port too. When pkg(7) hit the streets and other
> sweeping changes were made to the ports infrastructure, Portmaster had to
> be updated and that might still be an ongoing process. In any case, Port-
> master needs *some* way of dealing with broken(*) ports and I can imagine
> that this can get tricky when dependencies are involved. From the looks of
> it, Portmaster just takes the easy way out and simply bails completely
> when it encounters a broken port.

Does it matter that I installed it with pkg rather than portmaster or make
install?

> However, wouldn't using the option "-x misc/jive" help for the time being?

adding that before or after the -a -i leads to the same abort.

> Jive *will* be kept available through alternative means in a way that
> Portmaster should be able to handle too.
>
> > You really need to have a hands-off policy on what software people use.
>
> To that I couldn't agree more.
>
> Fonz
>
> Ad (*): Here I mean broken in the broadest sense. Morality-fuelled censor-
> ship is rare, but occasionally ports are unfetchable, have security holes,
> fail to build or simply don't work.
>
> A.J. "Fonz" van Werven 

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Eduardo Morras via freebsd-ports]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 16:51:12 +0200 (CEST)
Henk van Oers  wrote:

> 
> A sword is a bladed weapon intended for slashing or thrusting.
> 
> And also: "Framework for manipulating Bible texts"
> 
> Is that what misc/jive does?
> 
> You can not kill with a jive
> but you can kill with manipulating bible texts.

With gcc and Clang/LLVM you can create Windows from scratch ;)

---   ---
Eduardo Morras 
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Resurrecting games/wmfortune (Was: Re: misc/jive deleted)

[Alphons van Werven]

Dave Horsfall wrote:

>> There used to be "offensive" (a term to be taken rather loosely in this 
>> case) fortune cookies, but they got kicked out somewhere in 9.X. That 
>> was the base system though; not the ports tree.
> 
> Not to mention "fortune -o" (to get the obscene versions) and there were
> some beauties there...

That's actually what I meant :-)

The funny thing to me is that fortune-o got removed, while murphy-o is
still around. Moreover, there are a couple of aphorisms in there of which
I honestly can't for the life of me fathom what could possibly be
offensive about them, but that's a different matter altogether.

> aneurin% cd wmfortune 
> aneurin% less *descr
> WMFortune outputs fortune messages, just as its name says.
> aneurin% make
> ===>  wmfortune-0.241_3 is marked as broken: No public disfiles.
> *** [all] Error code 1
> 
> Stop in /usr/ports/games/wmfortune.

I've been doing some searching, but upstream games/wmfortune appears to
have indeed vanished entirely. I still have what seems to be the latest
distfile in my archives and I'd be happy to host it if this port still
builds and works properly.

Fonz

-- 
A.J. "Fonz" van Werven 
mailsig: Help! I'm a prisoner in a Chinese fortune cookie factory.


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Fwd: Re: Jive prejudices

[Alphons van Werven]

Louis Epstein wrote:

> In any event,portmaster -a -i updates now abort because misc/jive is
> detected on my system.
> 
> This goes beyond "We will no longer provide this application" to
> "we will no longer let you upgrade your applications as long as you
> have this one installed".

To be fair, I strongly doubt this is deliberate policy.

Portmaster itself is a port too. When pkg(7) hit the streets and other
sweeping changes were made to the ports infrastructure, Portmaster had to
be updated and that might still be an ongoing process. In any case, Port-
master needs *some* way of dealing with broken(*) ports and I can imagine
that this can get tricky when dependencies are involved. From the looks of
it, Portmaster just takes the easy way out and simply bails completely
when it encounters a broken port.

However, wouldn't using the option "-x misc/jive" help for the time being?
Jive *will* be kept available through alternative means in a way that
Portmaster should be able to handle too.

> You really need to have a hands-off policy on what software people use.

To that I couldn't agree more.

Fonz

Ad (*): Here I mean broken in the broadest sense. Morality-fuelled censor-
ship is rare, but occasionally ports are unfetchable, have security holes,
fail to build or simply don't work.

-- 
A.J. "Fonz" van Werven 
mailsig: Help! I'm a prisoner in a Chinese fortune cookie factory.


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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Baptiste Daroussin]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 06:22:53PM +0200, Henk van Oers wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016, Kurt Jaeger wrote:
> [ software that hurts _me_ ]
> > Come on, isn't there some PR to work on 8-} ?
> 
> Yes, restore misc/jive.
> 

Beside any discussion on wether or not misc/jives was offensive, note that there
is actually no upstream and no public distfile left for this port, this is also
a reason for it to be nuked.

It is only available on various cache from various package systems which is
clearly not an official upstream. Lets dead software die and move on.

Best regards,
Bapt


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Re: Fails to build math/libqalculate

[Kevin Oberman]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Baho Utot 
wrote:

> Sending this again as I have had mail server issues
>
> There is no src/Makefile.in only src/Makefile.am
>
>
> /usr/ports/math/libqalculate # make
> ===>  License GPLv2 accepted by the user
> ===>  Found saved configuration for libqalculate-0.9.10
> ===>   libqalculate-0.9.10 depends on file: /usr/local/sbin/pkg - found
> ===> Fetching all distfiles required by libqalculate-0.9.10 for building
> ===>  Extracting for libqalculate-0.9.10
> => SHA256 Checksum OK for Qalculate-libqalculate-v0.9.10_GH0.tar.gz.
> ===>  Patching for libqalculate-0.9.10
> ===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for libqalculate-0.9.10
> File to patch:
> No file found--skip this patch? [n] y
> 1 out of 1 hunks ignored--saving rejects to Oops.rej
> => Patch patch-src-Makefile.in failed to apply cleanly.
> => Patch(es) patch-libqalculate.pc.in applied cleanly.
> *** Error code 1
>
> Stop.
> make[1]: stopped in /usr/ports/math/libqalculate
> *** Error code 1
>
> Stop.
> make: stopped in /usr/ports/math/libqalculate
>

You seem to have a bogus file in the port directory as this port contains
no patches.
 # ls /usr/ports/math/qalculate
Makefiledistinfopkg-descrpkg-plist

Patches are placed in a "files" directory and thee is no such directory. I
have also checked the repository and it has 0.9.10, but no FreeBSD patches.

If you use svn to update your ports tree, I'd suggest:
# rm /usr/ports/math/qalculate/*
#svn up /usr/ports/math/qalculate/

If you use portsnap, this simply should not happen as it should remove any
stale files.
--
Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer
E-mail: rkober...@gmail.com
PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683
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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Henk van Oers]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016, Kurt Jaeger wrote:
[ software that hurts _me_ ]

Come on, isn't there some PR to work on 8-} ?


Yes, restore misc/jive.

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Re: texlive appears broken

[Baptiste Daroussin]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 06:14:20PM +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Chris H  wrote:
> >>
> >> I actually was puzzled with texlive not installing and remembered
> >> seeing someone had issues with the new collate stuff.  I simply
> >> tried the latter setting with a "Let's see what happens".  It worked.
> >>
> >> Moral 1 of the story.  Build ports with LC_ALL= and LC_COLLATE=C.
> >
> > Does this deserve an EN, or UPDATING notice?
> >
> > P.S.
> > Thanks for sharing this, Steve!
> 
> FWIW, this is still not fixed.
> root@kg-v7# uname -a
> FreeBSD kg-v7.kg4.no 11.0-STABLE FreeBSD 11.0-STABLE #0 r307729: Fri
> Oct 21 22:34:13 CEST 2016
> r...@kg-v7.kg4.no:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64
> 
> and an updated ports tree.
> I had to install texlive-base with
> root@kg-v7# LC_COLLATE=C portinstall -R texlive-base
> [...]
> Installing texlive-base-20150521_13...
> mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf/ls-R...
> mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-config/ls-R...
> mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-dist/ls-R...
> mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-local/ls-R...
> mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-var/ls-R...
> mktexlsr: Done.
> ===>  Cleaning for texlive-base-20150521_13
> 
> The funny thing is that none of the LC* variables are set in my
> environment, only LANG:
> 
> root@kg-v7# env
> PAGER=more
> LANG=en_US.ISO8859-1
> G_FILENAME_ENCODING=ISO-8859-1
> MAIL=/var/mail/root
> PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/root/bin
> ENV=/root/.shrc
> OLDPWD=/usr/ports/lang/python27
> PWD=/root
> TERM=xterm
> EXINIT=set showmode
> USER=root
> HOME=/root
> SHELL=/bin/sh
> BLOCKSIZE=K
> 
> Is there a existing PR for this? OK, 21264 is close enough:
> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212624
> I'll add comments to it.
> 

This is not a bug with the new collation it is the ports it is mis
interpretation of how collation works by some build system, in particular some
base tools on freebsd are locales aware while on their coreutils counter parts
they are not.

One have to find what is that misusage (which would be a pain of something like
texlive and fix (and upstream) the change.

Best regards,
Bapt


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Re: Jive prejudices

[Christoph Brinkhaus]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 06:41:10AM -0700, Roger Marquis wrote:
> Louis Epstein wrote:
> > You really need to have a hands-off policy on what software people use.
> 
> The meaning of this is unclear as anyone can still compile jive on their
> own outside of the ports tree.  WRT ports, they should be subject to the
> same policies as base.
> 
> The meta questions here are: A) does FreeBSD have a policy restricting
> software that promotes hatred, discrimination or violence (IMO it
> should) and, if so B) does jive violate that policy.

I this case I have no idea why games as doom are in the ports tree.
I would not miss jive and I would not miss stuff as doom, too.
But where is the limit?
> 
> Before we can have any substantive discussion of a particular port we
> should have consensus on policy.

Yes, this is correct. The cultures and measures what is offensive or
not are different in different areas. Therefore it is difficult to
find a common understanding.

Kind regards,
Christoph
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Re: texlive appears broken

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Chris H  wrote:
>>
>> I actually was puzzled with texlive not installing and remembered
>> seeing someone had issues with the new collate stuff.  I simply
>> tried the latter setting with a "Let's see what happens".  It worked.
>>
>> Moral 1 of the story.  Build ports with LC_ALL= and LC_COLLATE=C.
>
> Does this deserve an EN, or UPDATING notice?
>
> P.S.
> Thanks for sharing this, Steve!

FWIW, this is still not fixed.
root@kg-v7# uname -a
FreeBSD kg-v7.kg4.no 11.0-STABLE FreeBSD 11.0-STABLE #0 r307729: Fri
Oct 21 22:34:13 CEST 2016
r...@kg-v7.kg4.no:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64

and an updated ports tree.
I had to install texlive-base with
root@kg-v7# LC_COLLATE=C portinstall -R texlive-base
[...]
Installing texlive-base-20150521_13...
mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf/ls-R...
mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-config/ls-R...
mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-dist/ls-R...
mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-local/ls-R...
mktexlsr: Updating /usr/local/share/texmf-var/ls-R...
mktexlsr: Done.
===>  Cleaning for texlive-base-20150521_13

The funny thing is that none of the LC* variables are set in my
environment, only LANG:

root@kg-v7# env
PAGER=more
LANG=en_US.ISO8859-1
G_FILENAME_ENCODING=ISO-8859-1
MAIL=/var/mail/root
PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/root/bin
ENV=/root/.shrc
OLDPWD=/usr/ports/lang/python27
PWD=/root
TERM=xterm
EXINIT=set showmode
USER=root
HOME=/root
SHELL=/bin/sh
BLOCKSIZE=K

Is there a existing PR for this? OK, 21264 is close enough:
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212624
I'll add comments to it.

-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen
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Re: misc/sword should be removed

[Kurt Jaeger]

Hi!

> A sword is a bladed weapon intended for slashing or thrusting.

To quote the pkg-descr:

The SWORD Project is the CrossWire Bible Society's free Bible
software project. Its purpose is to create cross-platform open-source
tools, covered by the GNU General Public License, that allow
programmers and Bible societies to write new Bible software more
quickly and easily.

> but you can kill with manipulating bible texts.

Come on, isn't there some PR to work on 8-} ?

-- 
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Matthias Apitz]

I think, we should end this thread. The port was removed, sure with good 
reasons. If someone wants to use it. he can pull out from svn the old port 
and continue with it to maintain.


matthias



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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Kurt Jaeger]

Hi!

> Is this -- being more inclusive (whatever that means) -- 
> even a valid goal for a technical project?

That depends on those working on the project. If they wonder
why systems programming is so one-sided when it cames to age,
gender, race, etc, then: yes, it becomes a goal.

Please remember that there was another discussion at that time (August 2016),
which caused the loss of relevant contributors because the project
did not react in a manner that was seen sensible from all sides.

I would not count one such action as a huge change of direction,
but I would not welcome it either if the project started long
discussions on on-sidedness and missed out on the technical ones.

So, lets get back to technical stuff 8-}

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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Kurt Jaeger]

Hi!

> Who exactly was offended by the existence of misc/jive in ports? Were
> there any actual complaints? How many?

One, in August. portmgr had a look at the port and decided on the removal.

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misc/sword should be removed

[Henk van Oers]

A sword is a bladed weapon intended for slashing or thrusting.

And also: "Framework for manipulating Bible texts"

Is that what misc/jive does?

You can not kill with a jive
but you can kill with manipulating bible texts.
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Re: Jive prejudices

[Rod Person]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 06:41:10 -0700 (PDT)
Roger Marquis  wrote:

> Louis Epstein wrote:
> > You really need to have a hands-off policy on what software people
> > use.  
> 
> The meaning of this is unclear as anyone can still compile jive on
> their own outside of the ports tree.  WRT ports, they should be
> subject to the same policies as base.
> 
> The meta questions here are: A) does FreeBSD have a policy restricting
> software that promotes hatred, discrimination or violence (IMO it
> should) and, if so B) does jive violate that policy.

I usually stay out of these discussions, but anything that can used to
create text or graphics can be used to promote hatred, discrimination or
violence. Heck, someone could fork FreeBSD for some nefarious means, say
embedding as a bomb controller. 

For one, I didn't even know of the existence of Jive till it was banned
and I've been using FreeBSD since 1997.

 
> Before we can have any substantive discussion of a particular port we
> should have consensus on policy.
> 
> Roger
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http://www.rodperson.com

He who knows himself to be one way and pretends it is another way is a
thief who robs his own soul.

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 Sakuntala 25
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Re: Jive prejudices

[Roger Marquis]

Louis Epstein wrote:

You really need to have a hands-off policy on what software people use.


The meaning of this is unclear as anyone can still compile jive on their
own outside of the ports tree.  WRT ports, they should be subject to the
same policies as base.

The meta questions here are: A) does FreeBSD have a policy restricting
software that promotes hatred, discrimination or violence (IMO it
should) and, if so B) does jive violate that policy.

Before we can have any substantive discussion of a particular port we
should have consensus on policy.

Roger
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Re: misc/jive deleted

[Marko Cupać]

Hi,

Who exactly was offended by the existence of misc/jive in ports? Were
there any actual complaints? How many?

Regards,
-- 
Before enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.
After  enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.

Marko Cupać
https://www.mimar.rs/
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Fails to build math/libqalculate

[Baho Utot]

Sending this again as I have had mail server issues

There is no src/Makefile.in only src/Makefile.am


/usr/ports/math/libqalculate # make
===>  License GPLv2 accepted by the user
===>  Found saved configuration for libqalculate-0.9.10
===>   libqalculate-0.9.10 depends on file: /usr/local/sbin/pkg - found
===> Fetching all distfiles required by libqalculate-0.9.10 for building
===>  Extracting for libqalculate-0.9.10
=> SHA256 Checksum OK for Qalculate-libqalculate-v0.9.10_GH0.tar.gz.
===>  Patching for libqalculate-0.9.10
===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for libqalculate-0.9.10
File to patch:
No file found--skip this patch? [n] y
1 out of 1 hunks ignored--saving rejects to Oops.rej
=> Patch patch-src-Makefile.in failed to apply cleanly.
=> Patch(es) patch-libqalculate.pc.in applied cleanly.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[1]: stopped in /usr/ports/math/libqalculate
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make: stopped in /usr/ports/math/libqalculate

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