Re: No keyboard after ports update, 2x moused_enable=YES culprit

2011-05-15 Thread Polytropon
Please allow me a technical sidenote:

On Sat, 14 May 2011 20:53:27 -0700 (PDT), Rob Clark rpcl...@ymail.com wrote:
 Trying the obvious first, I unplugged the keyboard and plugged it
 back in the ps2 port, and keyboard worked immediately -- this
 was repeatable.  

Do _NOT_ hotplug the PS/2 port! It's not capable of that!

I've seen myself in the past that trying so caused a mainboard
to fly into the garbage can - as hotplugging the keyboard
seemed to have damaged the PS/2 port (it didn't work anymore,
with no keyboard).

However, you actually CAN do this with USB. And I've done
hotplugging with an old AT (big 5 pin keyboard connector)
and HIL connect/disconnect at the keyboard (!) without any
problem (IBM model M, the famous one).



 Some digging around revealed that I had the following
 line in /etc/rc.conf twice:
 moused_enable=YES

This doesn't matter: /etc/rc.conf is a shell script included
in system scripts that does just contain variables that are
set. Compare the following:

x = 3;
x = 3;

What does happen? Or even this:

x = 3;
x = 4;

You can have the same line 100 times in this file, with the
result that the _last_ setting will be used. See man rc.conf
for details.



 I removed one of these (which I guess was the culprit) and left
 one as it should have been, then all was well. 

So _that_ is very strange, if one has the functionality of
/etc/rc, rc.conf, and the rc.d/ scripts in mind... having
a line twice in the config file does _not_ imply a service
is started twice.



 I have no idea why I had  moused_enable=YES  in there twice,
 whether it was from an old or recent rc.conf edit, but it
 clearly seems to have been causing the issue.

Coincidence, covariation, correlation...? :-)



 Other (maybe valuable) info:
 I am running hald in /etc/rc.conf as follows:
 dbus_enable=YES
 hald_enable=YES
 ...and these were there prior to the ports update.
 
 I figured this issue may be of some value since I did not
 do any src updates.

While moused is part of the base system (updated per source
or freebsd-update), dbus and hal are ports (job for portmaster).





-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: No keyboard after ports update, 2x moused_enable=YES culprit

2011-05-15 Thread Lars Eighner

On Sat, 14 May 2011, Rob Clark wrote:


After restarting X, prior to any reboot, I lost the mouse in X.
So I figured a reboot was in order.


This is almost certainly HAL.  If you do not know you need HAL for
something, mark the hal and hal-info ports FORBIDDEN (set FORBIDDEN to any
value in the Makefiles) whenever you update your ports tree.  Grep /var/db/ports
for hal and then remove the with hal option in the affected ports using make
config.  Force reinstall the affected ports.  Try to pkg_delete hal, to check
for dependencies you haven't resolved.  When all the dependencies are
removed, then remove hal.


Some digging around revealed that I had the following line in /etc/rc.conf
twice: moused_enable=YES

I removed one of these (which I guess was the culprit) and left one as it
should have been, then all was well.  Keyboard found at reboot, no further
issues -- mouse was available in X too.

I have no idea why I had  moused_enable=YES  in there twice, whether it
was from an old or recent rc.conf edit, but it clearly seems to have been
causing the issue.


This cannot be.  Once or a million times should have exactly the same
effect.  Commonly ports, people, and sysinstall just add stuff to the end of
this file.  They add everything they know they need because only the last of
similar entries has effect.  rc.conf can become unwieldly over time because
of this.  It is safe to delete duplicate entries, but that should not affect
the result.  When the same value is assigned differing values only the last
is effective.  The defaults are in /etc/defaults/rc.conf which should never
be edited.


--
Lars Eighner
http://www.larseighner.com/index.html
8800 N IH35 APT 1191 AUSTIN TX 78753-5266___
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Re: Established method to enable suid scripts?

2011-05-15 Thread Chris Telting

On 05/13/2011 14:34, Alejandro Imass wrote:

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Chris Telting
christopher...@telting.org  wrote:

On 05/13/2011 01:32, krad wrote:

[...]

me ask you.. is sudo ping acceptable? Please explain the logical reason
why not. It would be the preferred method if suid didn't exist and sudo was
part of the base system.

The sudo versus suid theme is discussed ad-nauseam in many lists and
forums, as well as the C wrappers for doing stuff suid.
IMHO, however, sudo can give you more granular control though
paradoxically relies on suid itself.
The question here is why make the whole freaking interpreter suid when
you can granularly control the specific script.
Anyway, I would personally use a wrapper or sudo.
I honestly tried when I posted the question to avoid the question of 
right or wrong. I simply have one opinion for my own need and preference 
and don't want to go into rigid detail and did not mean to reopen the 
issue. I simply wanted to know if anyone had a patch already or a flag 
enabled it.  It's similar to the phrase that if  you have to ask you 
can't afford it except in this case it means you can. I have a feeling 
someone somewhere did it. If no one comes forward I will post a proper 
patch for review and maintain documentation of the pitfalls to the 
extent I can and that others forward to me.  I have no desire to change 
Freebsd's standard practice. I leave that to the steering committee of 
each and every distribution of unix like systems. I am simply grateful 
to be able to make my development systems work the way I want it to 
because I want it to. It's a question of complete phylosophy to me as to 
the base unix permissions system. I simply know what appeals most to me 
the way that I use systems.  We all love Freebsd because it means 
choice.  I apologize to anyone that thinks I reopened a can of worms and 
wasted time, it was not my goal.


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openvas

2011-05-15 Thread pwnedomina

anyone knows how to configure openvas properly on FreeBSD?
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Re: Established method to enable suid scripts?

2011-05-15 Thread Randal L. Schwartz
 Chris == Chris Telting christopher...@telting.org writes:

Chris I honestly tried when I posted the question to avoid the question
Chris of right or wrong. I simply have one opinion for my own need and
Chris preference and don't want to go into rigid detail and did not
Chris mean to reopen the issue. I simply wanted to know if anyone had a
Chris patch already or a flag enabled it.  It's similar to the phrase
Chris that if you have to ask you can't afford it except in this case
Chris it means you can. I have a feeling someone somewhere did it. If
Chris no one comes forward I will post a proper patch for review and
Chris maintain documentation of the pitfalls to the extent I can and
Chris that others forward to me.  I have no desire to change Freebsd's
Chris standard practice. I leave that to the steering committee of each
Chris and every distribution of unix like systems. I am simply grateful
Chris to be able to make my development systems work the way I want it
Chris to because I want it to. It's a question of complete phylosophy
Chris to me as to the base unix permissions system. I simply know what
Chris appeals most to me the way that I use systems.  We all love
Chris Freebsd because it means choice.  I apologize to anyone that
Chris thinks I reopened a can of worms and wasted time, it was not my
Chris goal.

When a child reaches for a hot stove, the only moral thing to do is pull
their hand back, without hesitating.

That's what we're trying to do for you.  Why are you not getting it?

You *will* get burned.  Why do you not trust the community to notice
that for you?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
mer...@stonehenge.com URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
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Re: Unable to boot installer

2011-05-15 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of May 15, 2011 5:08:10 AM +0200, Cybil Courraud is alleged to have 
said:



I met the same problem with my x220 which is not resolved but you can
follow this workaround:

1 - Plug an external USB keyboard
2 - boot with a memstick with 8.2
3 - In the loader:
 set hint.atkbd.0.disabled=1
 boot
4 - Follow install via network or other
5 - Setup BIOS: Config  USB UEFI BIOS  disabled
6 - reboot


Thanks, that got me going.  Any idea if this is fixed in -CURRENT?  (I may 
try it anyway.)



You could try with a CD, directly without UEFI, it may work as is (I
didn't burn it for the exercise).


That would be a problem unless you have a dock; turning off the USB UEFI 
BIOS makes it unable to boot from any USB device.


Daniel T. Staal

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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Jack L. Stone
At 06:59 PM 5/14/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:
 I'm finally getting around to removing any remnants of frontpage. There are
 1000s of _vti_* directories across several domains and need to clean those
 out. What's the best way to run a short script or command set to find and
 delete those?

man 1 find

find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*  -delete
run the command without -delete  to see what will be removed.


-- 
Eitan Adler


Thanks, Eitan, but it didn't delete. What did I do wrong?

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Eitan Adler
 Thanks, Eitan, but it didn't delete. What did I do wrong?

I would need to see what command you typed :-)
Go to the top directory you start deleting from and type
find . -name _vti_\*

This will print out what it thinks should be deleted. If you don't see
the directories you expect here then please be more specific about
what should be deleted.
If you do see the directories you expect and running the find command
with -delete doesn't work then we could try and debug from that
point.


-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Jack L. Stone
At 11:32 AM 5/15/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:
 Thanks, Eitan, but it didn't delete. What did I do wrong?

I would need to see what command you typed :-)
Go to the top directory you start deleting from and type
find . -name _vti_\*

This will print out what it thinks should be deleted. If you don't see
the directories you expect here then please be more specific about
what should be deleted.
If you do see the directories you expect and running the find command
with -delete doesn't work then we could try and debug from that
point.


-- 
Eitan Adler


The comamnd:
#find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just adding the
-delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Eitan Adler
 The comamnd:
 #find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
 worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just adding the
 -delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.

I forgot that adding the -type d won't let it delete non-empty
directories. Try running it like:
find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -delete


 (^_^)



-- 
Eitan Adler
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VIMAGE in fbsd 9.0

2011-05-15 Thread Fbsd8

What is the current status of VIMAGE in Freebsd 9.0?
Is VIMAGE going to be included in the basic 9.0 release as part of the 
default kernel?

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Re: Established method to enable suid scripts?

2011-05-15 Thread krad
On 15 May 2011 15:30, Randal L. Schwartz mer...@stonehenge.com wrote:

  Chris == Chris Telting christopher...@telting.org writes:

 Chris I honestly tried when I posted the question to avoid the question
 Chris of right or wrong. I simply have one opinion for my own need and
 Chris preference and don't want to go into rigid detail and did not
 Chris mean to reopen the issue. I simply wanted to know if anyone had a
 Chris patch already or a flag enabled it.  It's similar to the phrase
 Chris that if you have to ask you can't afford it except in this case
 Chris it means you can. I have a feeling someone somewhere did it. If
 Chris no one comes forward I will post a proper patch for review and
 Chris maintain documentation of the pitfalls to the extent I can and
 Chris that others forward to me.  I have no desire to change Freebsd's
 Chris standard practice. I leave that to the steering committee of each
 Chris and every distribution of unix like systems. I am simply grateful
 Chris to be able to make my development systems work the way I want it
 Chris to because I want it to. It's a question of complete phylosophy
 Chris to me as to the base unix permissions system. I simply know what
 Chris appeals most to me the way that I use systems.  We all love
 Chris Freebsd because it means choice.  I apologize to anyone that
 Chris thinks I reopened a can of worms and wasted time, it was not my
 Chris goal.

 When a child reaches for a hot stove, the only moral thing to do is pull
 their hand back, without hesitating.

 That's what we're trying to do for you.  Why are you not getting it?

 You *will* get burned.  Why do you not trust the community to notice
 that for you?

 --
 Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
 mer...@stonehenge.com URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/
 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
 See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
 ___
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 freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org


I also think you would get a similar reaction from the majority of any
unix communality for any distro/release.
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Jack L. Stone
At 12:19 PM 5/15/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:
 The comamnd:
 #find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
 worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just adding the
 -delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.

I forgot that adding the -type d won't let it delete non-empty
directories. Try running it like:
find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -delete


 (^_^)



Nope. Thate didn't delete either.

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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Re: openvas

2011-05-15 Thread Odhiambo Washington
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 16:38, pwnedomina pwnedom...@gmail.com wrote:

 anyone knows how to configure openvas properly on FreeBSD?


If you read this [0], [1] and finally this [2] - then it doesn't seem so
difficult.

[0]
http://hurricanelabs.com/lighthouse/newsletters/past/openvas-up-close-and-personal-part-1/
[1] http://hackertarget.com/2009/06/guide-to-openvas-on-ubuntu-904/
[2] http://blog.hazrulnz.net/1338/openvas-part-1.html

-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Rolf Nielsen

2011-05-15 19:41, Jack L. Stone skrev:

At 12:19 PM 5/15/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:

The comamnd:
#find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just adding the
-delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.


I forgot that adding the -type d won't let it delete non-empty
directories. Try running it like:
find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -delete



(^_^)





Nope. Thate didn't delete either.

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -exec rm -Rd {} \;
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Jack L. Stone
At 07:50 PM 5/15/2011 +0200, Rolf Nielsen wrote:
2011-05-15 19:41, Jack L. Stone skrev:
 At 12:19 PM 5/15/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:
 The comamnd:
 #find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
 worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just
adding the
 -delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.

 I forgot that adding the -type d won't let it delete non-empty
 directories. Try running it like:
 find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -delete


 (^_^)



 Nope. Thate didn't delete either.

 Jack

find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -exec rm -Rd {} \;
___

That worked! Thanks!

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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pptpd problem (re-post)

2011-05-15 Thread Mario Lobo
Sorry for the re-post but I am really lost here.

Any hints, clues, pointers, opinions would be appreciated.



I have a VPN server on FBSD 8.1. The vpn closes fine. But as soon as I start 
doing something with an inside LAN machine i.e. an RDP session, I get this:



May 14 12:46:06 suporte pptpd[1958]: GRE: xmit failed from decaps_hdlc: No 
buffer space available



and the VPN tunnel drops.



I googled a lot for it but I didn't find any thing that could help.
The system WAS working OK before. I tried everything I could think of.



Could anyone help?
Thanks,



-- 
Mario Lobo
http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br
FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE)






pptpd: 
poptop-1.3.4_2



System:
FreeBSD 8.1-STABLE #0: Mon Feb 28 20:47:00 BRT 2011 i386
last pid:  2145;  load averages:  0.00,  0.00,  0.00

28 processes:  1 running, 27 sleeping
CPU:  0.0% user,  0.0% nice,  0.0% system,  1.1% interrupt, 98.9% idle
Mem: 15M Active, 13M Inact, 58M Wired, 28K Cache, 44M Buf, 1892M Free
Swap: 4000M Total, 4000M Free



sysctl.conf:
security.bsd.see_other_uids=0
security.bsd.see_other_gids=0
debug.cpufreq.lowest=400
kern.maxfiles=65536
kern.maxfilesperproc=32768
kern.maxvnodes=60
kern.ipc.shmmax=67108864
kern.ipc.shmall=16384
kern.ipc.nmbclusters=32768
kern.ipc.somaxconn=32768
net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
net.inet.tcp.drop_synfin=1
net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536
net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536
net.inet.tcp.blackhole=2
net.inet.udp.blackhole=1
net.inet.icmp.drop_redirect=1
net.inet.icmp.icmplim_output=0
net.inet.icmp.icmplim=2000
net.inet.tcp.path_mtu_discovery=0
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=1
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_inc=16384
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=16777216
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=1
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_inc=8192
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=16777216



pf.conf(relevant rules):
#--- Allow vpns from anywhere to anywhere
pass log   quick on $ext_if inet proto gre all queue (ssh_bulk, ack)
pass log   quick on $ext_if inet proto tcp  from any to any port pptp flags 
S/SA queue (ssh_bulk, ack)
  
pass log   quick on $aln_if inet proto gre all queue (ssh_bulk, ack)
pass log   quick on $aln_if inet proto tcp  from any to any port pptp flags 
S/SA queue (ssh_bulk, ack)






options.pptpd:
proxyarp
lock
name 



ppp.conf:
default:
  set timeout 1200
  # set log Phase Chat LCP IPCP CCP TUN Command Connect
  set log Phase Chat TUN Connect
  set dial
  set login
  set ifaddr 172.16.3.200/24 172.16.3.201-172.16.3.239 255.255.255.0
  set server /tmp/tun%d  0177
  # set lqrperiod 20
  # set echoperiod 20
  # enable lqr echo



pptp:
  disable ipv6cp pap chap
  disable deflate pred1
  deny deflate pred1
  enable proxy
  accept dns
  set mtu max 1024
  set dns 172.16.3.133
  set nbns 172.16.3.133
  enable MSChapV2
  enable mppe
  set mppe * stateful
  set radius /etc/ppp/radius.conf
  set rad_alive 60
  allow mode direct








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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Rolf Nielsen

2011-05-15 19:50, Rolf Nielsen skrev:

2011-05-15 19:41, Jack L. Stone skrev:

At 12:19 PM 5/15/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:

The comamnd:
#find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just
adding the
-delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.


I forgot that adding the -type d won't let it delete non-empty
directories. Try running it like:
find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -delete



(^_^)





Nope. Thate didn't delete either.

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -exec rm -Rd {} \;


Pardon my answering my own post, but after reading the find manpage, I 
think perhaps


find -d /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\* -exec rm -Rd {} \;

would be better. The -d option makes find visit the contents of a 
directory before the directory itself. The one without the -d option
deletes the topmost directory it finds and then tries to traverse 
downwards, which of course causes a warning. It still works though.

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Re: No keyboard after ports update, 2x moused_enable=YES culprit

2011-05-15 Thread Chip Camden
Quoth Lars Eighner on Sunday, 15 May 2011:
 On Sat, 14 May 2011, Rob Clark wrote:
 
 After restarting X, prior to any reboot, I lost the mouse in X.
 So I figured a reboot was in order.
 
 This is almost certainly HAL.  If you do not know you need HAL for
 something, mark the hal and hal-info ports FORBIDDEN (set FORBIDDEN to any
 value in the Makefiles) whenever you update your ports tree.  Grep 
 /var/db/ports
 for hal and then remove the with hal option in the affected ports using make
 config.  Force reinstall the affected ports.  Try to pkg_delete hal, to 
 check
 for dependencies you haven't resolved.  When all the dependencies are
 removed, then remove hal.
 
That's some good advice.  I was able to remove hal using this approach,
but only after removing firefox, gimp, gnumeric, dia and several others.
When I reinstalled firefox, it didn't need HAL -- but when I reinstalled
gimp the first thing it did was build HAL.  I didn't find HAL in any of
gimp's options, and I have WITHOUT_HAL=YES in /etc/make.conf.  The HAL
daemon hald isn't running, and gimp seems to work.  I wish I could figure
out what dependency wanted HAL to be installed so I could remove it.

-- 
.O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden  | http://camdensoftware.com
..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com
OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91  | http://chipstips.com


pgpxOEZd2EVGz.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Boot from DVD to install hangs

2011-05-15 Thread Alexander Lardner
Hello,
I have burned a DVD (I was out of CDs) image of PowerPC 8.2 to install on my
old iMac G3. However, it stops at the line that reads:

acd0: DVDROM MATSHITADVD-ROM SR-8184/AA32 at ata0-slave UDMA33

What the heck does that mean, and why does it get stuck?

Thanks for any help,
Alex
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Re: find and remove ?

2011-05-15 Thread Jack L. Stone
At 08:05 PM 5/15/2011 +0200, Rolf Nielsen wrote:
2011-05-15 19:50, Rolf Nielsen skrev:
 2011-05-15 19:41, Jack L. Stone skrev:
 At 12:19 PM 5/15/2011 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote:
 The comamnd:
 #find /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\*
 worked fine to give the listing of what to delete, but when just
 adding the
 -delete at the end didn't delete, just ran the listing again.

 I forgot that adding the -type d won't let it delete non-empty
 directories. Try running it like:
 find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -delete


 (^_^)



 Nope. Thate didn't delete either.

 Jack

 (^_^)
 Happy trails,
 Jack L. Stone

 System Admin
 Sage-american
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 find /path/to/start/deleting -name _vti_\* -exec rm -Rd {} \;

Pardon my answering my own post, but after reading the find manpage, I 
think perhaps

find -d /path/to/start/deleting -type d -name _vti_\* -exec rm -Rd {} \;

would be better. The -d option makes find visit the contents of a 
directory before the directory itself. The one without the -d option
deletes the topmost directory it finds and then tries to traverse 
downwards, which of course causes a warning. It still works though.


Thanks for the follow-up. I'll try it too.

Jack

(^_^)
Happy trails,
Jack L. Stone

System Admin
Sage-american
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CD Boot to install hangs

2011-05-15 Thread Alexander Lardner
Hello,
I am re-asking as it's rather urgent.
I have burned a CD of PowerPC 8.2 to install on my old iMac G3. It boots, but 
it stops at the line that reads:

acd0: DVDROM MATSHITADVD-ROM SR-8184/AA32 at ata0-slave UDMA33

What the heck does that mean, and why does it get stuck? More importantly, how 
do I fix it?

Thanks for any help,
Alex
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Re: No keyboard after ports update, 2x moused_enable=YES culprit

2011-05-15 Thread perryh
Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote:

 Do _NOT_ hotplug the PS/2 port! It's not capable of that!

 I've seen myself in the past that trying so caused a mainboard
 to fly into the garbage can - as hotplugging the keyboard
 seemed to have damaged the PS/2 port (it didn't work anymore,
 with no keyboard).

This is conventional wisdom, and I believed it until I came across,
as an enclosure with a Belkin F8E206c PS/2 keyboard that had 3
extra keys*, specific instructions to unplug the keyboard, wait 5
seconds, and replug it to get past a BIOS incompatibility on some
Intel boards using the SE440BX-2 chipset.  (The next step was to
upgrade the BIOS, but the hotplug exercise was necessary to get
to the point of being _able_ to upgrade the BIOS.)

* Power, Sleep,  WakeUp; presumably intended for ACPI or APM.

 However, you actually CAN do this with USB.

Yes, USB was designed to be hot-pluggable.

 And I've done hotplugging with an old AT (big 5 pin keyboard
 connector) and HIL connect/disconnect at the keyboard (!) without
 any problem (IBM model M, the famous one).

The AT and PS/2 keyboard interfaces are electrically identical --
only the physical connector is different.  (I have seen, and used,
adapters to connect either type of keyboard to the other type of
system.  Such adapters have no active components, just the two
connectors wired together.)
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Re: No keyboard after ports update, 2x moused_enable=YES culprit

2011-05-15 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of May 15, 2011 8:03:29 PM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com is alleged to 
have said:



The AT and PS/2 keyboard interfaces are electrically identical --
only the physical connector is different.  (I have seen, and used,
adapters to connect either type of keyboard to the other type of
system.  Such adapters have no active components, just the two
connectors wired together.)


--As for the rest, it is mine.

The physical connector is all that actually needs to be different: Hot-swap 
interfaces make a point of connecting ground before power, usually be 
longer ground pins.  Although I don't think it matters in this case.


I could check, but I'd have to unplug my keyboard from the computer I'm on. 
;)


Daniel T. Staal

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Re: No keyboard after ports update, 2x moused_enable=YES culprit

2011-05-15 Thread perryh
Daniel Staal dst...@usa.net wrote:

 --As of May 15, 2011 8:03:29 PM -0700, per...@pluto.rain.com is
 alleged to have said:

  The AT and PS/2 keyboard interfaces are electrically identical
  -- only the physical connector is different.

 --As for the rest, it is mine.

 The physical connector is all that actually needs to be different:
 Hot-swap interfaces make a point of connecting ground before power,
 usually be longer ground pins.

The PS/2 should qualify on this point, provided it is wired
_correctly_ (with the connector shell grounded both on the
motherboard and in the cable).  I'm less sure about the AT,
which used a 5-pin DIN plug that may not even have had a
shell-ground on the motherboard -- we were less concerned
about generating RFI in those days. IIRC all 5 pins were the
same length.

It's possible this particular Belkin keyboard used longer pins for
power and ground than for signal, so as to be safely hot-pluggable
even if the motherboard didn't ground the connector shell.  However,
I've since gotten by with hot-plugging a PS/2 trackball on the same
machine a couple of times, to clear lockups.
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