Re: Horrible installer
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Stas Verberkt lego...@legolasweb.nlwrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:24:20PM +0100, claudiu vasadi wrote: From my point of view, I would like to see 2 major things in bsdinstall: 1) ZFS support 2) an option, to use GUI or text mode installer (similar to RHEL, CentOS, Solaris) 3) GELI disk encryption Ah ... that too. -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
All of these complaints can go directly to /dev/null Just as you don't get to express your opinion about the government if you don't vote, you don't get to express your opinion about -RELEASE changes when you didn't run the STABLE/RC/BETAs. You had your chance to help improve FreeBSD for everyone, assuming your concerns really are valid and far-reaching. You opted out. No longer the core team's problem. Closed: WORKSFORME ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:27:32 -0600 Mark Felder articulated: Just as you don't get to express your opinion about the government if you don't vote, Excuse me, but are you just trying to look naive? -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck. -- Joss Whedon. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:40:42 -0600, je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:27:32 -0600 Mark Felder articulated: Just as you don't get to express your opinion about the government if you don't vote, Excuse me, but are you just trying to look naive? The wording wasn't exactly as clear as it should have been, and I don't feel like seeing this thread degrade into politics and conspiracy theories. I should have known better. To clarify: Don't complain about major changes in -RELEASE if you refused to participate in the release process. (and bsdinstaller was HIGHLY publicized for a solid year before 9.0-RELEASE.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
I've recently been presented with new information: namely that RC3 had sysinstall as an option (I did not know this, and I've been reading the lists) and that it was taken away for -RELEASE even though it was agreed upon that would not happen for 9.x. I'll crawl under this rock now. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
Allan ___ Erm, you have to realize the new installer was discussed at length here, when 9.0 was still under development/beta/prerelease. Alternatively, you could do like me and install entirely by hand: - boot an MFSBSD image (thanks mm@ ) - partition your disks from there (see http://my.gd/bsd.htm for a rough sketch on how to use gpart) - fetch the 9.0 archives in .txz (tar.xz) format - unpack archives with xz -d - untar archived to the mountpoint with your new filesystems (eg: tar xf base.tar -C /mnt) - customize configuration files (rc.conf, fstab, root's password or SSH key, sshd_config to allow root login temporarily) and almost like me installing previous release (FreeBSD 8) everywhere. i just made once bootable pendrive with system, lots of tools and whole system as .tar.gz files (made my own compiling from cvs) actually i add WITHOUT_SYSINSTALL=yes to make.conf so i don't build it at all. And IMHO sysinstall should not exist, while good documentation about installing BY HAND should be there. Someone that cannot install it him/herself will not be able to ever manage it after so why waste time. Do not forget that FreeBSD is for unix users, contrary to linux which is for windoze haters. Again i propose removing sysinstall altogether. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
because, well, I LOVE FreeBSD. Basically, I've tried out NetBSD ONCE, actually i used NetBSD BEFORE switching to FreeBSD, short time after they released 2.0 and following versions. Got slower, unstable and bloated. Switched to FreeBSD, which in every version is getting BETTER not worse. I also don't think much, or care, about taking BSD, shutting everything off, and calling it the most secure thing ever. (Yes, I'm over FreeBSD by default is secure too ;) favorite OSs period. I also LOVE how awesome the Core Team are; Grey too. Kirk McKusick do the forward made me happy, he's one of my personal heros. I also got to speak with him recently and I was almost speechless I LOVE that guy, and he's so funny! The DVD 25 years of Bereley Unix is something I'd recommend you ALL buy. I also loved how nice he was. Marshal Kirk McKusick is one of the nicest, friendliest and made the most stable, dependable and high performance filesystem ever, which - after some improvements - is still used by most FreeBSD users. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
I first touched FreeBSD around 2005. The current insteller is much more appealing and useful. All the people displaying elitist attitude toward the arcaic installer which infact DID push people away from FreeBSD, I don't understand you. so may i explain you: Those who cannot install things without fancy interfaces are not ever able to manage that system afterwards. This is not a toy but best performing unix system. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Wojciech Puchar Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:25 AM To: Damien Fleuriot Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9) Allan ___ Erm, you have to realize the new installer was discussed at length here, when 9.0 was still under development/beta/prerelease. Alternatively, you could do like me and install entirely by hand: - boot an MFSBSD image (thanks mm@ ) - partition your disks from there (see http://my.gd/bsd.htm for a rough sketch on how to use gpart) - fetch the 9.0 archives in .txz (tar.xz) format - unpack archives with xz -d - untar archived to the mountpoint with your new filesystems (eg: tar xf base.tar -C /mnt) - customize configuration files (rc.conf, fstab, root's password or SSH key, sshd_config to allow root login temporarily) and almost like me installing previous release (FreeBSD 8) everywhere. i just made once bootable pendrive with system, lots of tools and whole system as .tar.gz files (made my own compiling from cvs) actually i add WITHOUT_SYSINSTALL=yes to make.conf so i don't build it at all. And IMHO sysinstall should not exist, while good documentation about installing BY HAND should be there. Someone that cannot install it him/herself will not be able to ever manage it after so why waste time. Disagree. For example, field engineers which may not be expected to know how to manage FreeBSD _ARE_ expected to know how to install it. A manual install process is more prone to errors than one that is guided by something/anything. Do not forget that FreeBSD is for unix users, Not all users are people. A corporation can be considered a unix user which changes the perspective quite a bit. contrary to linux which is for windoze haters. Again i propose removing sysinstall altogether. And you'll have your wish... over time! The community has agreed to phase out sysinstall(8) gradually over the next 2 or three releases (producing either a 10.0 or 11.0 that is free of sysinstall depending on how things progress with respect to replacement utilities such as bsdinstall and the proposed bsdconfig). -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 07:30:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I first touched FreeBSD around 2005. The current insteller is much more appealing and useful. All the people displaying elitist attitude toward the arcaic installer which infact DID push people away from FreeBSD, I don't understand you. so may i explain you: Those who cannot install things without fancy interfaces are not ever able to manage that system afterwards. This is not a toy but best performing unix system. Thank you for (inadvertently?) making people with a legitimate need for the functionality of sysinstall look like intolerant elitists by association with you in the minds of those who don't understand their needs, just because you seem to agree with them. I miss your silence. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 07:25:03PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: And IMHO sysinstall should not exist, while good documentation about installing BY HAND should be there. I agree with the part of that sentence following the comma. That is all. Someone that cannot install it him/herself will not be able to ever manage it after so why waste time. Do not forget that FreeBSD is for unix users, contrary to linux which is for windoze haters. Again i propose removing sysinstall altogether. Automation is good, provided it does not eliminate useful options and flexibility. You seem unaware of this fact in the general case, for some reason. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
I first touched FreeBSD around 2005. The current insteller is much more appealing and useful. All the people displaying elitist attitude toward the arcaic installer which infact DID push people away from FreeBSD, I don't understand you. so may i explain you: Those who cannot install things without fancy interfaces are not ever able to manage that system afterwards. This is not a toy but best performing unix system. So for that matter GNU/Linux and Solaris both are toys because they also present a GUI installer alongside?? I was talking about text and gui being available, not just one or the other. Not everyone is using FreeBSD for rackmounts with a terminal and no monitor. -- Lyubomir Grigorov (bgalakazam) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Horrible installer
From my point of view, I would like to see 2 major things in bsdinstall: 1) ZFS support 2) an option, to use GUI or text mode installer (similar to RHEL, CentOS, Solaris) Other than that, I can use it just as I was using sysinstall, because we always have ZFS on root (need to drop to shell to run a script) or UFS (built-in). -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
PS: would like to see option 2 in PC-BSD too (maybe I'm just melancholic to have a non-GUI installer :) ) -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 09:52:17AM -0600, Mark Felder wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:40:42 -0600, je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:27:32 -0600 Mark Felder articulated: Just as you don't get to express your opinion about the government if you don't vote, Excuse me, but are you just trying to look naive? The wording wasn't exactly as clear as it should have been, and I don't feel like seeing this thread degrade into politics and conspiracy theories. I should have known better. To clarify: Don't complain about major changes in -RELEASE if you refused to participate in the release process. (and bsdinstaller was HIGHLY publicized for a solid year before 9.0-RELEASE.) I understand the theory, but in reality, not everyone has the resources to frequently try out CURRENT or even STABLE as sort of Beta tests. It is good for those who can. In spite of that, it is good - a part of the development process - that people do post their complaints and concerns. Of course, the sendpr process is the canonical method, but really, many of these comments need some discussion before they are ready for prime time - eg to be posted by sendpr. Frankly, many of the comments are rather half baked and many are really just personal preferences that are not actually technical failings. That does not make them unvaluable. It ends up being sort of an Email BOF session like one might get into in a FreeBSD or USENIX conference. That hashing out is where many new ideas and features start and get vetted and may eventually get worked on by people able to do it. The one failing I frequently see in the complaint posts and the responses by other complainers is too frequently a lack of civility and respect for people who are doing the work of creating and maintaining this system and for those who are making complaints and stating personal preferences (true on other similar lists such as CentOS, etc too). It is not necessary or helpful to ascribe all sorts of negative attributes and motives to those doing the work or to those making comments and complaints. Just state your bit, then shut your digital mouth. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
I'm very new to FreeBSD but it seems to me that the installer is pretty much ok. My only wish is that there might be a little more info upfront somewhere, preferably in the installer somewhere, about setting up for a dual boot. I couldn't find in the handbook, (that may be my fault, don't know, but i finally googled the info i needed, after thinking that I had inadvertently committed my Windows slice into the abyss. maybe that was a good thing, but IMO though, the installer should be as lightweight and spare as possible, that is, if the engineering dudes are writing it. I would rather see them doing their fantastic work on the OS, not on the installer anyway. Seems to me that a full-featured GUI installer would be a good project for the community? (ok, yeah they could have left sysinstall alone, but so what???) If you had to depend on sysinstall on a daily basis, i could see having issues with the change, but then again, if you are using it that often a custom install scriptsomething... would be better anyway. from my point of view, I would rather learn how to do this by hand, because then i would come out learning a lot more, and knowing more about my own system. Probably be next on my agenda. since this is my first contact with the community, I would like to thank the development folks properly for the awesome work that they do, and to those who contribute to this list. Kyle Adkins Sent from my iPad On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:27 AM, Mark Felder f...@feld.me wrote: All of these complaints can go directly to /dev/null Just as you don't get to express your opinion about the government if you don't vote, you don't get to express your opinion about -RELEASE changes when you didn't run the STABLE/RC/BETAs. You had your chance to help improve FreeBSD for everyone, assuming your concerns really are valid and far-reaching. You opted out. No longer the core team's problem. Closed: WORKSFORME ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
On Monday 23 January 2012 05:18:01 pm B. Kyle Adkins wrote: I'm very new to FreeBSD but it seems to me that the installer is pretty much ok. My only wish is that there might be a little more info upfront somewhere, preferably in the installer somewhere, about setting up for a dual boot. I couldn't find in the handbook, (that may be my fault, don't know, but i finally googled the info i needed, after thinking that I had inadvertently committed my Windows slice into the abyss. maybe that was a good thing, but Heh, I remember back in the day when I FIRST got to use FreeBSD for the very first time; I bought the BSD PowerPak, complete with FreeBSD 4.0, the 4 CD-ROM set, and a 6 CD toolkit, and The Complete FreeBSD book 3rd edition, Which is one of the best books ever written on BSD, or any OS period. Back then, I was running my Computer, it had Windows 98 SE, dual booting with a Linux distro (I used a few and formatted a lot to try new things so it could have been any of them) and then I decided to tri-boot Windows 98 SE, Linux, and FreeBSD... To put it mildly; The BSD installer overwrote my MBR even though I said not to, and wouldn't boot Windows. So it only booted Linux and FreeBSD. I was TOTALLY new to Computers in general still, but even back then, I knew I'd stumbled upon something special. I've also had installs go bad and I couldn't boot Windows anymore either, so I know how you feel. Right now, My Wife and I have 11 computers, and all of mine are running some form of BSD (ONLY FreeBSD and PC-BSD, which is FreeBSD with a pretty pain job and some custom apps that I like) and then a Slackware 12.0 FTP Server which is just my first Computer I ever bought because it still works, and then, I have my main desktop dual booting Windows 7 and Slackware as well. Every other machine is now running some form of FreeBSD. I like that. BSD has come a long way in terms of desktop usability over the years. I mean you could use FreeBSD as a Desktop or Workstation easily, but it COULD be a little but of a pain in the butt now and then for that, as it really is aimed at Servers. These days; It's much easier I think. And I LOVE FreeBSD. I have downloaded and tried out NetBSD but I didn't ever like it. I refuse to try OpenBSD, because I hate that damned talking turnip Theo, and, if anyone remembers unixpunx back in the day, I still have the Live CD they made based on FreeBSD :) IMO though, the installer should be as lightweight and spare as possible, that is, if the engineering dudes are writing it. I would rather see them doing their fantastic work on the OS, not on the installer anyway. Seems to me that a full-featured GUI installer would be a good project for the community? Actually, you could try out PC-BSD :) I'm installing 9.0 on my Laptop right now. I predict in the near future, with the rate at which PC-BSD is going, it's going to become MAJOR MAJOR COMPETITION to Linux, and even the Idiotic Ubuntu. I don't like Ubuntu... I do like Slackware and SUSE, but Ubuntu just. I like Debian, and it's retarded cousin Ubuntu is NOT for me. I use the installation media I have for it, for the SAME purpose I use my Windows NT and Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition CDs; Coffee Coasters. from my point of view, I would rather learn how to do this by hand, because then i would come out learning a lot more, and knowing more about my own system. Probably be next on my agenda. I personally would like to learn that part too. However, I don't think it should EVER be a requirement. I mean, when it comes down to it, I think we could all admit, FreeBSD is the most popular BSD because it was the first one to actually try and get something out there that was installable without being a guru. NetBSD and OpenBSD are barely catching up, and I don't care; FreeBSD and PC-BSD, are becoming very quickly my main OSs these days. I used to use SUSE Debian and Slackware for most of my stuff, but anymore, I don't. BSD has, FINALLY, got something called PC-BSD where I can use the stability of FreeBSD, but, with then fast and easy set up of something like RedHat. I hate RedHat so I'm VERY happy Pc-BSD has come along so far. I've got versions of it going back pretty far heh. I actually have a CD / DVD case that is dedicated JUST to BSD. and it's LOADED. FreeBSD going back to 4.0, and other BSD stuff I have. All in there. And For Christmas, I got a new FreeBSD tee, hoody, and a FreeBSD CD/DVD Case. I LOVE it. I also got stickers and stuff, and ANOTHER FreeBSD PC Case thingy, and I love it. since this is my first contact with the community, I would like to thank the development folks properly for the awesome work that they do, and to those who contribute to this list. If you want to thank them properly, I'd HIGHLY recommend buying some of the books! Look into The FreeBSD Mall and on the left hand side, you'll see a section called Books and Magazines. Look
Re: Horrible installer (was: Re: FreeBSD 9)
On Monday 23 January 2012 12:17:33 pm Mark Felder wrote: I've recently been presented with new information: namely that RC3 had sysinstall as an option (I did not know this, and I've been reading the lists) and that it was taken away for -RELEASE even though it was agreed upon that would not happen for 9.x. I'll crawl under this rock now. Instead of crawling under a Rock, how about everyone here, ALL of the people I've seen in this thread trashing each other; ALL of you, just take 60 seconds, take a DEEP breath, and realize we ARE a Community, which is a lot like a family in some ways. That means we aren't always going to agree with each other, and that we may even want to punch one another in the head from time to time, but, at the least, can all of you who ARE getting pissed off like that, at LEAST be respectfulof one another? God, it's like being on an Ubuntu mailing list with this thread and I WILL NOT stand for that! If I wanted to use shoddy shitty software that some asshole Billionaire ripped off from another OS I'd go buy Windows and pretend I was being bent over. I don't personally care if everyone here gets along or anything, but I DO care when you start insulting each other over OPINIONS. I'm not going to say that stupid cliche about how everyone has one, because I think it's cheezy, but damn it this is FreeBSD! The most Stable OS on Earth. (If you take into account that you don't need a 40 millon dollar cluster to run it and all that). I've been watching this thread from the start, and I've replied to a few posts myself, but it's like, seriously? You have to insult EVERY person you don't agree with? I don't have an issue with insulting morons. I'd make it a sport if I could and I LOVE being a condescending jerk sometimes. But, on a list such as this, it's making us ALL look bad! So, to all of you taking part in this thread; Can we turn the bashing off for a while? We're FreeBSD users, and I sort of expect... No, I EXPECT that we all can act professional! So, PLEASE, if you have an issue with someone on here, and you want to bash them for it... Why not just reply to their email address instead of the list itself? work it out! Man up! If your pooter hurts; the Vagisil is in the same isle as the Depends. Suck it up! (Yes, I'm trying to add humor I'm one of those people who can't deal with certain high stress situations so I try and crack jokes and stuff. But yea, I'm a playful person right now because the Oxy kicked in, but yea, can we not bash each other over opinions?). Anyway, I fully understand BOTH sides of what everyone is saying. I really do for the most part. I know that bsdinstall has it's issues, but don't you think that the FreeBSD team is watching this? You know they WILL get it going and fix it up, so just be professional. Make a list of EVERYTHING that EVERYONE doesn't like about bsdinstall, and get the list to the right people who can do something about it. I mean come on You HAVE the source Write something better, or, at least, get the stuff that bugs you to the people in charge. It will be OK! I've been working with BSD since 4.0, do you really think this is the first time something happened where people were upset? Jeez guys They'll work it out and we'll be fine, OK? -Allen -- BSD user ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On Monday 23 January 2012 01:29:23 pm Wojciech Puchar wrote: because, well, I LOVE FreeBSD. Basically, I've tried out NetBSD ONCE, actually i used NetBSD BEFORE switching to FreeBSD, short time after they released 2.0 and following versions. Got slower, unstable and bloated. Switched to FreeBSD, which in every version is getting BETTER not worse. Yea I ust never really got into the NetBSD thing. In mean, I don't HATE NetBSD, I just don't care about it. I also don't think much, or care, about taking BSD, shutting everything off, and calling it the most secure thing ever. (Yes, I'm over FreeBSD by default is secure too ;) Agree :) I like how FreeBSD managed to make a system that was actually USABLE and ALSO secure. I mean, if you're not sure, you can look something up and learn how to do it in a very short time due to the great docs, and the great books. Kirk McKusick do the forward made me happy, he's one of my personal heros. I also got to speak with him recently and I was almost speechless I LOVE that guy, and he's so funny! The DVD 25 years of Bereley Unix is something I'd recommend you ALL buy. I also loved how nice he was. Marshal Kirk McKusick is one of the nicest, friendliest and made the most stable, dependable and high performance filesystem ever, which - after some improvements - is still used by most FreeBSD users. Oh I know! It amazes me just how Talented he is. And of course being very friendly. I was actually nervous about meeting him because, you know, when you meet a hero, you worry about people who talk about Glenn Danzig being a Jerk sometimes and it ruins it for you, but he's a really nice guy. I didn't have a whole conversation or anything, but he was very nice to me, and I was glad he wasn't pissed about the long ass email I sent so it was nice :) -Allen -- BSD user ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On 01/24/12 11:33, gore wrote: On Monday 23 January 2012 12:17:33 pm Mark Felder wrote: I've recently been presented with new information: namely that RC3 had sysinstall as an option (I did not know this, and I've been reading the lists) and that it was taken away for -RELEASE even though it was agreed upon that would not happen for 9.x. I'll crawl under this rock now. Instead of crawling under a Rock, how about everyone here, ALL of the people I've seen in this thread trashing each other; ALL of you, just take 60 seconds, take a DEEP breath, and realize we ARE a Community, which is a lot like a family in some ways. That means we aren't always going to agree with each other, and that we may even want to punch one another in the head from time to time, but, at the least, can all of you who ARE getting pissed off like that, at LEAST be respectfulof one another? God, it's like being on an Ubuntu mailing list with this thread and I WILL NOT stand for that! If I wanted to use shoddy shitty software that some asshole Billionaire ripped off from another OS I'd go buy Windows and pretend I was being bent over. ROFL... I cant imagine what happened on the ubuntu lists, maybe they were throwing foam balls at each other or something... This thread to me seems pretty tame though as opposed to some - maybe a Nerf match? You should see some of the other linux lists - they almost get to the point of using real guns! I don't personally care if everyone here gets along or anything, but I DO care when you start insulting each other over OPINIONS. I'm not going to say that stupid cliche about how everyone has one, because I think it's cheezy, but damn it this is FreeBSD! The most Stable OS on Earth. (If you take into account that you don't need a 40 millon dollar cluster to run it and all that). I've been watching this thread from the start, and I've replied to a few posts myself, but it's like, seriously? You have to insult EVERY person you don't agree with? I don't have an issue with insulting morons. I'd make it a sport if I could and I LOVE being a condescending jerk sometimes. But, on a list such as this, it's making us ALL look bad! So, to all of you taking part in this thread; Can we turn the bashing off for a while? We're FreeBSD users, and I sort of expect... No, I EXPECT that we all can act professional! So, PLEASE, if you have an issue with someone on here, and you want to bash them for it... Why not just reply to their email address instead of the list itself? work it out! Man up! If your pooter hurts; the Vagisil is in the same isle as the Depends. Suck it up! ROFL _and_ pissing myself... :) (Yes, I'm trying to add humor I'm one of those people who can't deal with certain high stress situations so I try and crack jokes and stuff. But yea, I'm a playful person right now because the Oxy kicked in, but yea, can we not bash each other over opinions?). Anyway, I fully understand BOTH sides of what everyone is saying. I really do for the most part. I know that bsdinstall has it's issues, but don't you think that the FreeBSD team is watching this? You know they WILL get it going and fix it up, so just be professional. Make a list of EVERYTHING that EVERYONE doesn't like about bsdinstall, and get the list to the right people who can do something about it. I mean come on You HAVE the source Write something better, or, at least, get the stuff that bugs you to the people in charge. It will be OK! I've been working with BSD since 4.0, do you really think this is the first time something happened where people were upset? Jeez guys They'll work it out and we'll be fine, OK? You have a point though, and some dignity and tact need to remain; and I agree - if you don't like something try and find a way to fix it, offer helpful advice/criticism, work with beta versions of the installer (or whatever bothers you). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On Monday 23 January 2012 08:45:21 pm Da Rock wrote: *snip* Instead of crawling under a Rock, how about everyone here, ALL of the people I've seen in this thread trashing each other; ALL of you, just take 60 seconds, take a DEEP breath, and realize we ARE a Community, which is a lot like a family in some ways. That means we aren't always going to agree with each other, and that we may even want to punch one another in the head from time to time, but, at the least, can all of you who ARE getting pissed off like that, at LEAST be respectfulof one another? God, it's like being on an Ubuntu mailing list with this thread and I WILL NOT stand for that! If I wanted to use shoddy shitty software that some asshole Billionaire ripped off from another OS I'd go buy Windows and pretend I was being bent over. ROFL... I cant imagine what happened on the ubuntu lists, maybe they were throwing foam balls at each other or something... This thread to me seems pretty tame though as opposed to some - maybe a Nerf match? You should see some of the other linux lists - they almost get to the point of using real guns! Hahaha yea. I've seen a few of those ones. God they get mad. I watched a few where I was basically waiting for one to tell the other This is where I live, come over here and kick my nerdy ass! lol. I don't personally care if everyone here gets along or anything, but I DO care when you start insulting each other over OPINIONS. I'm not going to say that stupid cliche about how everyone has one, because I think it's cheezy, but damn it this is FreeBSD! The most Stable OS on Earth. (If you take into account that you don't need a 40 millon dollar cluster to run it and all that). I've been watching this thread from the start, and I've replied to a few posts myself, but it's like, seriously? You have to insult EVERY person you don't agree with? I don't have an issue with insulting morons. I'd make it a sport if I could and I LOVE being a condescending jerk sometimes. But, on a list such as this, it's making us ALL look bad! So, to all of you taking part in this thread; Can we turn the bashing off for a while? We're FreeBSD users, and I sort of expect... No, I EXPECT that we all can act professional! So, PLEASE, if you have an issue with someone on here, and you want to bash them for it... Why not just reply to their email address instead of the list itself? work it out! Man up! If your pooter hurts; the Vagisil is in the same isle as the Depends. Suck it up! ROFL _and_ pissing myself... :) Oh thank you for getting that :) I was kind of wondering how that would get taken and if everyone would get it but thanks lol. I thought it was funny. (Yes, I'm trying to add humor I'm one of those people who can't deal with certain high stress situations so I try and crack jokes and stuff. But yea, I'm a playful person right now because the Oxy kicked in, but yea, can we not bash each other over opinions?). Anyway, I fully understand BOTH sides of what everyone is saying. I really do for the most part. I know that bsdinstall has it's issues, but don't you think that the FreeBSD team is watching this? You know they WILL get it going and fix it up, so just be professional. Make a list of EVERYTHING that EVERYONE doesn't like about bsdinstall, and get the list to the right people who can do something about it. I mean come on You HAVE the source Write something better, or, at least, get the stuff that bugs you to the people in charge. It will be OK! I've been working with BSD since 4.0, do you really think this is the first time something happened where people were upset? Jeez guys They'll work it out and we'll be fine, OK? You have a point though, and some dignity and tact need to remain; and I agree - if you don't like something try and find a way to fix it, offer helpful advice/criticism, work with beta versions of the installer (or whatever bothers you). Thank you! :) -Allen -- BSD user ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:24:20PM +0100, claudiu vasadi wrote: From my point of view, I would like to see 2 major things in bsdinstall: 1) ZFS support 2) an option, to use GUI or text mode installer (similar to RHEL, CentOS, Solaris) 3) GELI disk encryption pgpWKcdL5irSY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Horrible installer
Michael Sierchio schreef: I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1, and IMHO, the 9.0 installer SUX! It blow chunks. It's a POS. It's crap. It is a joke. I hope I made myself clear. ;-) - M ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org You made your self clear. I remember myself coming from anaconda ( The Red Hat installer.) before i used FreeBSD. I thought the installer of FreeBSD was very difficult to use, i could not understand how that in my eyes ancient installer could ever get a decent OS on my disk. But after trail and error i got used to it, and i can now almost blindly use it. Now there comes another installer, same story. I need to get used to it again, in about 6 months i do not remember the old installer anymore and things feel natural again. No big deal just adapt and go on. regards Johan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On Saturday 21 January 2012 12:52:31 am Damien Fleuriot wrote: On 21 Jan 2012, at 05:47, Michael Sierchio ku...@tenebras.com wrote: I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1, and IMHO, the 9.0 installer SUX! It blow chunks. It's a POS. It's crap. It is a joke. I hope I made myself clear. ;-) - M Just because you see things a certain way doesn't make them a fact. It's your personal opinion and other people's mileage may vary. Since you're a fbsd user from 2.x, certainly you're WAY beyond needing the installer and just unpack the base system + kern + src + ports and install them manually. Well, because that's work, and anyone who simply says something sucks like that, probably doesn't like doing that lol ;) Refer my earlier post on the subject. Perhaps if you're unhappy with the new installer you should have submitted feedback about it before -RELEASE hit the road. I too wonder about this. I mean, 9.0 was supposed to be out BEFORE it was actually released, and it was released a little late, so there was actually MORE time to talk about this with someone than what I'm guessing is normal. Last but not least I find your calling the new installer a pos highly disrespectful towards the people that invested time, energy and money in it. I agree. Someone saying anything free is a POS is kind of like... You know? I bet that's Meg griffin! lol. I'm not the best person for sales because I speak my mind, so I can easily say simply If you don't like it, you have choices; You can either write a new installer yourself, find another one that works with it, use a different version, a different OS period, or, of course, shut up and like it since you didn't exactly pay through the nose for it. It's totally free, and you can install it on any number of machines. Complaining about free stuff is perfectly fine I think, but at least give examples of how you think it could be better, or, fix it! Note pad comes for free on Windows, and it blows like Windows does, but I'm not a programmer so even if you COULD get the source, I couldn't fix it. But, I don't sit there telling Microsoft's terrible tech supportpeople who failed at sellingused cars that it sucks... If I wanted to try that out I'd tell Richard Stallman where he could stick Emacs and every bit of the source code lol..Anyone who thinks ITS is better than Unix. Yea... Right... An OS entirely in Assembler, 6 characters no exceptions no passwords and hey I have a Hack! use Enter for your password! Luckly ITS was crappy enough no one in their right mind would WANT to break in to steal CPU cycles lol. That's like breaking into a VMS machine; I'd rather dip my balls in honey and tea bag a jar full of Bullet Ants. (And if you didn't laugh enough at that; look up Bullet Ants; They have one of the most painful stings of anything, and, as such, you aren't considered a man by most tribes until you stick your hands in a special glove set with them in there) lol :) -Allen -- BSD user ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Damien Fleuriot wrote: On 21 Jan 2012, at 05:47, Michael Sierchio ku...@tenebras.com wrote: I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1, and IMHO, the 9.0 installer SUX! It blow chunks. It's a POS. It's crap. It is a joke. I hope I made myself clear. ;-) - M Just because you see things a certain way doesn't make them a fact. It's your personal opinion and other people's mileage may vary. Since you're a fbsd user from 2.x, certainly you're WAY beyond needing the installer and just unpack the base system + kern + src + ports and install them manually. Refer my earlier post on the subject. Perhaps if you're unhappy with the new installer you should have submitted feedback about it before -RELEASE hit the road. I have not yet encountered the new installer, but I recall the traditional installer still came with 9.0 Beta3 (which I have used), so I am wondering how much time for discussion of the new installer there really was. Nevertheless, the problem with the old installer was the menu system's departure from convention, which did take quite a while to get used to. I recall that the author of the old installer said he regretted picking that menu package for this reason. Could someone enumerate what advanced hooks are now buried? If they are configuration items that can be changed post-install, then there is probably little reason to offer them during the install. Partitioning, RAID setup and encryption are things that do need to be established during setup, and I regret that no installer (for FreeBSD or Linux) notices that I have two empty drives, and defaults to a RAID 1. Daniel Feenberg Last but not least I find your calling the new installer a pos highly disrespectful towards the people that invested time, energy and money in it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: * Re: Horrible installer
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: ... On the other hand, bsdinstall does get the job done, at least for my purposes. It just does so in a way that feels a bit more straightjacketed, and it rubs me personally a bit the wrong way. ... From my perspective, it replaces something that clearly had at least a decimal order of magnitude more time and effort put into it, and it again makes FreeBSD look like a hobbyist's OS. As you point out, once installed, it has its merits. ;-) - M ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
Damien Fleuriot wrote: On 1/19/12 3:25 AM, Allan McKinnon wrote: I finally got to install FreeBSD 9 onto my computer and noticed that the installer is now different. It seems to me that it forces you into doing extra steps that I was comfortable doing on my own. I really enjoyed the old installer because then I had complete control over how I tweaked my computer during and after the install. I am surprised that there is no gui present while installing FreeBSD because it feels more like Ubuntu or a windows install (somewhat). Please, please, please take this nightmare away and bring the beloved installer that was before FreeBSD 9. Thank you for listening. Allan ___ Erm, you have to realize the new installer was discussed at length here, when 9.0 was still under development/beta/prerelease. Then would have been the best time to voice your frustration over the new scheme. Alternatively, you could do like me and install entirely by hand: - boot an MFSBSD image (thanks mm@ ) - partition your disks from there (see http://my.gd/bsd.htm for a rough sketch on how to use gpart) - fetch the 9.0 archives in .txz (tar.xz) format - unpack archives with xz -d - untar archived to the mountpoint with your new filesystems (eg: tar xf base.tar -C /mnt) - customize configuration files (rc.conf, fstab, root's password or SSH key, sshd_config to allow root login temporarily) And then most of all, profit ;) I've been doing installs this way first with 8.x (using the install scripts on the CDROM) then now with 9.x unpacking the .txz archives. I'm quite happy with it, the process is simple enough to document and reproduce, and offers suitable customization options. We've developed a tiny web interface here that lets us customize the size, type and label of our GPT partitions, hostname, IP address, root password and SSH accounts/keys to deploy on such newly installed machines. The interface spits the whole wall of commands to paste once logged in to the MFSBSD image to install the new OS and configure it. Works like a charm really. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org so post your script so others can use it ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On 1/20/12 9:36 AM, Fbsd8 wrote: Damien Fleuriot wrote: On 1/19/12 3:25 AM, Allan McKinnon wrote: I finally got to install FreeBSD 9 onto my computer and noticed that the installer is now different. It seems to me that it forces you into doing extra steps that I was comfortable doing on my own. I really enjoyed the old installer because then I had complete control over how I tweaked my computer during and after the install. I am surprised that there is no gui present while installing FreeBSD because it feels more like Ubuntu or a windows install (somewhat). Please, please, please take this nightmare away and bring the beloved installer that was before FreeBSD 9. Thank you for listening. Allan ___ Erm, you have to realize the new installer was discussed at length here, when 9.0 was still under development/beta/prerelease. Then would have been the best time to voice your frustration over the new scheme. Alternatively, you could do like me and install entirely by hand: - boot an MFSBSD image (thanks mm@ ) - partition your disks from there (see http://my.gd/bsd.htm for a rough sketch on how to use gpart) - fetch the 9.0 archives in .txz (tar.xz) format - unpack archives with xz -d - untar archived to the mountpoint with your new filesystems (eg: tar xf base.tar -C /mnt) - customize configuration files (rc.conf, fstab, root's password or SSH key, sshd_config to allow root login temporarily) And then most of all, profit ;) I've been doing installs this way first with 8.x (using the install scripts on the CDROM) then now with 9.x unpacking the .txz archives. I'm quite happy with it, the process is simple enough to document and reproduce, and offers suitable customization options. We've developed a tiny web interface here that lets us customize the size, type and label of our GPT partitions, hostname, IP address, root password and SSH accounts/keys to deploy on such newly installed machines. The interface spits the whole wall of commands to paste once logged in to the MFSBSD image to install the new OS and configure it. Works like a charm really. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org so post your script so others can use it I'm afraid it's not that simple, the PHP page that generates the customized lines to copy/paste for installations is integrated into our user management interface (for reasons I'll skip). I can't post that since it's corporate stuff. However you've got a rough sketch of how we do it at - http://my.gd/bsd.htm and a much more complete procedure based on it from Ollivier Robert at: - http://www.keltia.net/howtos/freebsd-dedibox ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
I've been sort of keeping track of this particular thread, because it interested me, and after reading through, I'd like to share my personal opinions. Now, before I go any further, let me just state here and now; This is my personal opinion, so, please, don't take this in a bad way, or in the wrong way; I'm a incredibly loyal FreeBSD and PC-BSD user, and have loved FreeBSD since 4.0 when I first got to use it. Now, with that said, here's what I think: FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE was a big deal, IS a big deal to ME personally, because, well, I LOVE FreeBSD. Basically, I've tried out NetBSD ONCE, and I didn't think it was anything special to warrent me using it instead of FreeBSD. If I ever need to use an OS on my toaster, I'll download a newer release; until then, I'll stick with FreeBSD and PC-BSD 9And let be honest here, lol, PC-BSD is FreeBSD with a pretty paint job, and some very VERY nice custom Applications to make installation, software management, and so on, easier to do. Basically it's FreeBSD but made specifically for the Desktop user). OpenBSD I just don't care. That guy Theo rubbed me the wrong way a long time ago, when I saw him reply to a FreeBSD security advisory, insulting one of the FreeBSD security team members and basically saying they didn't know what they were talking about and that they ere full of it, and so on. I thought that was incredibly rude, and insulting. The FreeBSD Security Team member replied with nothing more than the OpenBSD Security notification in question, proving to Theo that yes, he was in fact not lying, and it was infact from his OWN OS! I couldn't Believe ow mean Theo was; He said that basically no such advisory existed. When they replied with the advisory, he didn't even respond. My guess is, it's hard to type while trying to swallow your pride AND fit your tail between your legs at the same time. I also don't think much, or care, about taking BSD, shutting everything off, and calling it the most secure thing ever. (Yes, I'm over simplifying that, I know they've done a lot of work, but really, who doesn't do code audits now? And yea, I'm trying to make that have a little humour to it as well). Anyway, FreeBSD 9.0, I saw the Email from FreeBSD-Announce, and I got really excited. I'd been waiting for a LONG time for RELEASE come out. I was VERY freaking tempted to grab the RC3, but no, I waited. Somehow lol. But as soon as I saw it was released, and FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE was now available, I jumped on Opera, and grabbed it. I burned it, and had it installed within an hour of reading the email that it was out. I will admit; I'm totally biased towards FreeBSD, as it's one of my favorite OSs period. I also LOVE how awesome the Core Team are; Grey Lehey wrote The Complete FreeBSD which, I got with the BSD PowerPak I bought which had 4.0 + 6CD Toolkit, and I still read that third edition to this day! It's great! I also bought the newer 4th Edition when it came out. (Having Marshal Kirk McKusick do the forward made me happy, he's one of my personal heros. I also got to speak with him recently and I was almost speechless I LOVE that guy, and he's so funny! The DVD 25 years of Bereley Unix is something I'd recommend you ALL buy. I also loved how nice he was. Marshal Kirk McKusick is one of the nicest, friendliest people I've have the pleasure of talking to). Anyway, back on topic; FreeBSD 9.0's new installer bsdinstall is FINE! I KNOW it isn't perfect, OK? I got that. But how many of you HONESTLY would rather keep using sysinstall? Seriously? If you answered yes, then why not just download 8.2 or before?It's got sysinstall as the installer, and you can be happy with it. I don't understand why so much of this is such a big issue, but, I'm only a co-sys admin of my home Network, with my Wife as the other BOFH (I'm the Bastard Operator, She's the Bitch :)) (by the way, no, I don't call woman that in that manner, it's rude, but we both love BOFH so it was an inside joke we enjoy). So I can't speak for those of you on here that are actually running huge data centers, or corporate stuff, so please understand, I'm not trying to say you don't have an actual issue. You guys are on a WAY higher level than I am. I'm a little guy compared to a lot of you. That's why I said I was only giving my opinion, and meant no harm by it, but again, why not just use 8.x or something? I'm not being sarcastic or anything either, I really am asking why not jut go to 8.2 which I also Loved? I personally like the way the new installer works. I DO think it would be nice if the Partition section was more like sysinstall, where you could simply hit a and it would give you a payout of partitions for the system to use, because I did like that, and now it does just / and Swap and boot by default, but the point is, that's not a huge deal really. I try to use BSD on everything I can really. It's probably the most stable OS out
* Re: Horrible installer
Sent from my iPhone On Jan 20, 2012, at 7:43 PM, gore koggy...@comcast.net wrote: [snip] I also bought the newer 4th Edition when it came out. (Having Marshal Kirk McKusick do the forward made me happy, he's one of my personal heros. I also got to speak with him recently and I was almost speechless I LOVE that guy, and he's so funny! The DVD 25 years of Bereley Unix is something I'd recommend you ALL buy. I also loved how nice he was. Marshal Kirk McKusick is one of the nicest, friendliest people I've have the pleasure of talking to). [snip] why not just use 8.x or something? I'm not being sarcastic or anything either, I really am asking why not jut go to 8.2 which I also Loved? SU+J by Kirk McKusick ?? :-D -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1, and IMHO, the 9.0 installer SUX! It blow chunks. It's a POS. It's crap. It is a joke. I hope I made myself clear. ;-) - M ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
Just to give thoughts as a younger user... I first touched FreeBSD around 2005. The current insteller is much more appealing and useful. All the people displaying elitist attitude toward the arcaic installer which infact DID push people away from FreeBSD, I don't understand you. The old installer was pretty crappy and there where many occasion on which you could fuck up and have to start the install all over, or just randomly quit the installer for that matter. The only reason to say the new installer sucks is that it has no gui. It is 2012 and you still are using text-based installers... Also, there was plently of time during RC to discuss this, I don't see why you all cry right now. To me, it seems you are afraid of change and getting out of your comfort zone. -- Lyubomir Grigorov (bgalakazam) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Horrible installer
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Lyubomir Grigorov lyubo...@grigorovl.eu wrote: Just to give thoughts as a younger user... Also, there was plently of time during RC to discuss this, I don't see why you all cry right now. To me, it seems you are afraid of change and getting out of your comfort zone. I don't have a comfort zone, I'm still a beginner ;-) My post was half in jest, but not entirely. I'm all for making things easy for the default install, but don't like having the expert knobs so far out of reach. The old sysinstall may have been showing its age, but replacing with something that looks even less professional isn't great, either. - M ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Horrible installer
On 21 Jan 2012, at 05:47, Michael Sierchio ku...@tenebras.com wrote: I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1, and IMHO, the 9.0 installer SUX! It blow chunks. It's a POS. It's crap. It is a joke. I hope I made myself clear. ;-) - M Just because you see things a certain way doesn't make them a fact. It's your personal opinion and other people's mileage may vary. Since you're a fbsd user from 2.x, certainly you're WAY beyond needing the installer and just unpack the base system + kern + src + ports and install them manually. Refer my earlier post on the subject. Perhaps if you're unhappy with the new installer you should have submitted feedback about it before -RELEASE hit the road. Last but not least I find your calling the new installer a pos highly disrespectful towards the people that invested time, energy and money in it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: * Re: Horrible installer
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 08:19:32PM -0800, Devin Teske wrote: On Jan 20, 2012, at 7:43 PM, gore koggy...@comcast.net wrote: why not just use 8.x or something? I'm not being sarcastic or anything either, I really am asking why not jut go to 8.2 which I also Loved? SU+J by Kirk McKusick ?? :-D There are things 9.0 offers that earlier versions do not. I think 9.0 is the first where the entire base system builds with Clang without issues, for instance (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The big thing I wanted in 9.0 actually got pushed back to 9.1 at least, so I'm still waiting for that, but that too indicates a reason that someone might not be satisfied with 8.2. As I mentioned earlier, it seems to me (as an outsider to the installer development process) that offering a choice between sysinstall and bsdinstall for at least one RELEASE of FreeBSD might have been a good idea, to give users a transition period and ensure that if there are some unforseen show-stoppers that did not appear in testing there would still be an option for those who need it. After talking some more to people who actually know a bit about how the installers work, I still don't see why that would not be the better choice. On the other hand, bsdinstall does get the job done, at least for my purposes. It just does so in a way that feels a bit more straightjacketed, and it rubs me personally a bit the wrong way. Your mileage may vary, and it certainly has not been a show-stopper for me so far. The actual installed OS is still my favorite, and when forced to screw around with something like Debian or (heaven forfend) MS Windows, it makes me want to tear my hair out or cry or break something. In the final analysis, the worst this has done for me is make me feel just slightly inconvenienced during installation, having to restart the installation process more often when I made a misstep for instance. No biggie, I guess. It's certainly not worth giving up being able to build the whole base system with Clang instead of GCC to have sysinstall instead of bsdinstall. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
