Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
Thus spake Cliff Sarginson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 03:09:12PM -0800, David Schultz wrote: Thus spake Cliff Sarginson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: FreeBSD support for ext2fs is a specific instance of the more general problem that features that very few people care about tend not to get maintained. FreeBSD already has a filesystem that is more complete and faster than ext2fs,[1] so the only people using both UFS and ext2fs are also running Linux. If you mount an ext2fs filesystem r/w, consider yourself a beta tester. Oh I am not comparing their relative merits. But the thing is there are people who for one reason or another run heterogenous networks. I mean it is not a crime to run both Linux and FreeBSD (or is it ?). My feeling is that it is a shame that is all. As for your scathing comment about the evolution of EXT2, I have no comment since it sounds like opinion rather than fact. The point of my post was to point out why nobody is interested in maintaining FreeBSD's ext2fs support. But ext2fs really is a simplified version of FFS! Basically, they took out support for fragments and vastly simplified the allocation policies. Some of the things they took out aren't even used anymore in FFS, like the code to take rotational offsets on the disk into consideration. On the other hand, they left out Kirk's realloc algorithm, which has been shown to significantly reduce fragmentation as filesystems age. (FYI, some people have expressed interest in porting ReiserFS to FreeBSD. Hans Reiser is willing to negotiate special exceptions to the license, as long as Microsoft can't build the next version of Windows on top of FreeBSD and be able to use his filesystem for free.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 08:25:56AM +0100, Cliff Sarginson wrote: On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:12:12PM -0500, Chris Pepper wrote: At 7:50 PM -0800 2002/11/20, David Schultz wrote: Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: snip LINT says: # # Add support for the EXT2FS filesystem of Linux fame. Be a bit # careful with this - the ext2fs code has a tendency to lag behind # changes and not be exercised very much, so mounting read/write could # be dangerous (and even mounting read only could result in panics.) # options EXT2FS This message has been in LINT since the dawn of time and is extremely mystifying. Be a bit careful .. meaning what ? You either mount it or don't mount it, use it or don't use it. What exactly are you supposed to be careful of :) Saying Boo!. Data corruption. Kris msg09577/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
On 2002-11-20 19:50, David Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I know they're distinct, but it's silly for a discussion of Linux applications to ignore the possibility of those apps residing on a Linux filesystem. I couldn't find ext2fs documented anywhere, which is the first issue. The second is adding a link comment to the LABI chapter. Hmm...I think you're right. I don't see any documentation for the option. I would just as soon hook the module up to the default build like all the other modules, but maybe the license is an issue. The license *is* an issue. Distributing kernels that by default include GPL'ed code can have many complications for people who make commercial applications based on FreeBSD source. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: even into GENERIC. To do the latter, the module must exist; it will be created if you make the kernel with -DWANT_EXT2FS_MODULE. It is also installed by sysinstall, IIRC. [...] Hmm...I think you're right. I don't see any documentation for the option. I would just as soon hook the module up to the default build like all the other modules, but maybe the license is an issue. I think it's off by default for stability, but would like to submit a patch to the LABI Handbook chapter linking to a discussion of the FS module. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found a URL that describes it. Thus spake Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The license *is* an issue. Distributing kernels that by default include GPL'ed code can have many complications for people who make commercial applications based on FreeBSD source. I'm not talking about linking ext2fs support into the kernel by default, I'm talking about just *creating* the module by default. See previous discussion. Stability isn't an issue, except for people who explicitly load the module. I'm aware of the problems with linking GPL'd code into the kernel, but that's not what is being discussed here. The license would only be a problem if there are legal or religious reasons against people building binaries that *could* be linked into the kernel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
Thus spake Cliff Sarginson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: LINT says: # # Add support for the EXT2FS filesystem of Linux fame. Be a bit # careful with this - the ext2fs code has a tendency to lag behind # changes and not be exercised very much, so mounting read/write could # be dangerous (and even mounting read only could result in panics.) # options EXT2FS This message has been in LINT since the dawn of time and is extremely mystifying. Be a bit careful .. meaning what ? You either mount it or don't mount it, use it or don't use it. What exactly are you supposed to be careful of :) Saying Boo!. FreeBSD support for ext2fs is a specific instance of the more general problem that features that very few people care about tend not to get maintained. FreeBSD already has a filesystem that is more complete and faster than ext2fs,[1] so the only people using both UFS and ext2fs are also running Linux. If you mount an ext2fs filesystem r/w, consider yourself a beta tester. [1] The designers of ext2 basically took FFS and removed the parts they didn't care for or were hard to implement. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
At 2:06 AM -0800 2002/11/19, David Schultz wrote: Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm trying to get at a file on an ext2fs slice. I'm a bit confused about kernel recompiles vs. KLDs for Linux compatibility, though. Am I reading correctly at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/linuxemu.html http://www.seabug.org/archive/2000-05/msg00086.html, that I can run Linux applications with a single command or rc.conf entry, but accessing files on ext2 file systems requires a kernel rebuild? This seems a bit backwards -- is anyone aware of work to make ext2fs a standard module, so it can be loaded under GENERIC? Running Linux binaries and using Linux filesystems are two completely different things. To to the former, and the appropriate rc.conf entry and install ports/emulators/linux_base as described in the Handbook. To use ext2fs, you can either add the option EXT2FS to your kernel config to compile it statically into your kernel, or you can load the ext2fs module dynamically, even into GENERIC. To do the latter, the module must exist; it will be created if you make the kernel with -DWANT_EXT2FS_MODULE. It is also installed by sysinstall, IIRC. David, I know they're distinct, but it's silly for a discussion of Linux applications to ignore the possibility of those apps residing on a Linux filesystem. I couldn't find ext2fs documented anywhere, which is the first issue. The second is adding a link comment to the LABI chapter. Thanks for the tip -- I used WANT_EXT2FS_MODULE=TRUE in /etc/make.conf, which will be persistent. I think if I ever need to use it just one time in the future, I'll try cd /usr/src/sys/modules/ext2fs; make install, which looks a bit easier to find now that I know what to look for. Interestingly, I don't have a copy from sysinstall, and I never manually removed it. Thanks, Chris Pepper -- Chris Pepper: http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/ Rockefeller University: http://www.rockefeller.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To use ext2fs, you can either add the option EXT2FS to your kernel config to compile it statically into your kernel, or you can load the ext2fs module dynamically, even into GENERIC. To do the latter, the module must exist; it will be created if you make the kernel with -DWANT_EXT2FS_MODULE. It is also installed by sysinstall, IIRC. David, I know they're distinct, but it's silly for a discussion of Linux applications to ignore the possibility of those apps residing on a Linux filesystem. I couldn't find ext2fs documented anywhere, which is the first issue. The second is adding a link comment to the LABI chapter. Hmm...I think you're right. I don't see any documentation for the option. I would just as soon hook the module up to the default build like all the other modules, but maybe the license is an issue. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
At 7:50 PM -0800 2002/11/20, David Schultz wrote: Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To use ext2fs, you can either add the option EXT2FS to your kernel config to compile it statically into your kernel, or you can load the ext2fs module dynamically, even into GENERIC. To do the latter, the module must exist; it will be created if you make the kernel with -DWANT_EXT2FS_MODULE. It is also installed by sysinstall, IIRC. David, I know they're distinct, but it's silly for a discussion of Linux applications to ignore the possibility of those apps residing on a Linux filesystem. I couldn't find ext2fs documented anywhere, which is the first issue. The second is adding a link comment to the LABI chapter. Hmm...I think you're right. I don't see any documentation for the option. I would just as soon hook the module up to the default build like all the other modules, but maybe the license is an issue. I think it's off by default for stability, but would like to submit a patch to the LABI Handbook chapter linking to a discussion of the FS module. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found a URL that describes it. LINT says: # # Add support for the EXT2FS filesystem of Linux fame. Be a bit # careful with this - the ext2fs code has a tendency to lag behind # changes and not be exercised very much, so mounting read/write could # be dangerous (and even mounting read only could result in panics.) # options EXT2FS Chris Pepper -- Chris Pepper: http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/ Rockefeller University: http://www.rockefeller.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:12:12PM -0500, Chris Pepper wrote: At 7:50 PM -0800 2002/11/20, David Schultz wrote: Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: snip LINT says: # # Add support for the EXT2FS filesystem of Linux fame. Be a bit # careful with this - the ext2fs code has a tendency to lag behind # changes and not be exercised very much, so mounting read/write could # be dangerous (and even mounting read only could result in panics.) # options EXT2FS This message has been in LINT since the dawn of time and is extremely mystifying. Be a bit careful .. meaning what ? You either mount it or don't mount it, use it or don't use it. What exactly are you supposed to be careful of :) Saying Boo!. I don't actually use it, but there have been occasional emails, and some published stuff that says it works fine. Just be a bit careful ! -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
Thus spake Chris Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm trying to get at a file on an ext2fs slice. I'm a bit confused about kernel recompiles vs. KLDs for Linux compatibility, though. Am I reading correctly at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/linuxemu.html http://www.seabug.org/archive/2000-05/msg00086.html, that I can run Linux applications with a single command or rc.conf entry, but accessing files on ext2 file systems requires a kernel rebuild? This seems a bit backwards -- is anyone aware of work to make ext2fs a standard module, so it can be loaded under GENERIC? Running Linux binaries and using Linux filesystems are two completely different things. To to the former, and the appropriate rc.conf entry and install ports/emulators/linux_base as described in the Handbook. To use ext2fs, you can either add the option EXT2FS to your kernel config to compile it statically into your kernel, or you can load the ext2fs module dynamically, even into GENERIC. To do the latter, the module must exist; it will be created if you make the kernel with -DWANT_EXT2FS_MODULE. It is also installed by sysinstall, IIRC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
Folks, I'm trying to get at a file on an ext2fs slice. I'm a bit confused about kernel recompiles vs. KLDs for Linux compatibility, though. Am I reading correctly at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/linuxemu.html http://www.seabug.org/archive/2000-05/msg00086.html, that I can run Linux applications with a single command or rc.conf entry, but accessing files on ext2 file systems requires a kernel rebuild? This seems a bit backwards -- is anyone aware of work to make ext2fs a standard module, so it can be loaded under GENERIC? Thanks, Chris Pepper [www:sys/i386/conf] root# uname -a FreeBSD www.reppep.com 4.7-STABLE FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE #7: Mon Nov 4 11:15:00 EST 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 [www:sys/i386/conf] root# kldstat Id Refs AddressSize Name 14 0xc010 419b78 kernel 21 0xc1d02000 6000 ipfw.ko 31 0xc1d7b000 3000 daemon_saver.ko 41 0xc1d89000 14000linux.ko [www:sys/i386/conf] root# lsvfs FilesystemRefs Flags - --- msdos0 procfs 1 synthetic mfs 0 ufs 4 cd9660 0 read-only nfs 0 network [www:sys/i386/conf] root# mount mount mount_fdesc mount_mfs mount_ntfs mount_portalmount_std mountd mount_cd9660mount_kernfsmount_msdos mount_null mount_procfsmount_umap mount_ext2fsmount_linprocfs mount_nfs mount_nwfs mount_smbfs mount_union [www:sys/i386/conf] root# mount mount mount_fdesc mount_mfs mount_ntfs mount_portalmount_std mountd mount_cd9660mount_kernfsmount_msdos mount_null mount_procfsmount_umap mount_ext2fsmount_linprocfs mount_nfs mount_nwfs mount_smbfs mount_union [www:sys/i386/conf] root# !mount mount /win ext2fs: vfsload(ext2fs): No such file or directory Rebooting... Copyright (c) 1992-2002 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE #7: Mon Nov 4 11:15:00 EST 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC Timecounter i8254 frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium III/Pentium III Xeon/Celeron (1102.50-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x68a Stepping = 10 Features=0x383fbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,MMX,FXSR,SSE real memory = 401539072 (392128K bytes) config di pcic0 config di sn0 config di lnc0 config di ie0 config di fe0 config di ed0 config di cs0 config di bt0 config di ata1 config di ata0 config di aic0 config di aha0 config di adv0 config q avail memory = 385167360 (376140K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel kernel at 0xc051b000. Preloaded userconfig_script /boot/kernel.conf at 0xc051b09c. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled md0: Malloc disk Using $PIR table, 9 entries at 0xc00fdf30 npx0: math processor on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: Intel 82810 (i810 GMCH) Host To Hub bridge on motherboard pci0: PCI bus on pcib0 pci0: Intel 82810 (i810 GMCH) SVGA controller at 1.0 irq 9 pcib1: Intel 82801AA (ICH) Hub to PCI bridge at device 30.0 on pci0 pci1: PCI bus on pcib1 xl0: 3Com 3c905C-TX Fast Etherlink XL port 0x2000-0x207f mem 0xf410-0xf410007f irq 9 at device 9.0 on pci1 xl0: Ethernet address: 00:04:76:df:f2:82 miibus0: MII bus on xl0 xlphy0: 3c905C 10/100 internal PHY on miibus0 xlphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto pci1: unknown card (vendor=0x11c1, dev=0x044e) at 10.0 irq 10 isab0: Intel 82801AA (ICH) PCI to LPC bridge at device 31.0 on pci0 isa0: ISA bus on isab0 atapci0: Intel ICH ATA66 controller port 0x10a0-0x10af at device 31.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 uhci0: Intel 82801AA (ICH) USB controller port 0x1080-0x109f irq 11 at device 31.2 on pci0 usb0: Intel 82801AA (ICH) USB controller on uhci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhub1: Texas Instruments TUSB2046 hub, class 9/0, rev 1.10/1.25, addr 2 uhub1: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered pci0: unknown card (vendor=0x8086, dev=0x2413) at 31.3 irq 9 chip1: Intel 82801AA (ICH) AC'97 Audio Controller port 0x1300-0x133f,0x1200-0x12ff irq 0 at device 31.5 on pci0 orm0: Option ROMs at iomem 0xc-0xc9fff,0xd8000-0xdbfff,0xe-0xe07ff on isa0 fdc0: NEC 72065B or clone at port 0x3f0-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0 fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1440-KB 3.5 drive on fdc0 drive 0 atkbdc0: Keyboard controller (i8042) at port 0x60,0x64 on isa0 atkbd0: AT Keyboard flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 psm0: PS/2 Mouse irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0:
Re: Confirmation: ext2fs requires kernel rebuild?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 11:47:21PM -0500, Chris Pepper wrote: This seems a bit backwards -- is anyone aware of work to make ext2fs a standard module, so it can be loaded under GENERIC? xor# uname -a FreeBSD xor.obsecurity.org 4.7-STABLE FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE #7: Sun Nov 3 17:11:34 PST 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/mnt/src-4.x/sys/compile/XOR i386 xor# ls -l /modules/ext2fs.ko -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 59428 Nov 17 19:21 /modules/ext2fs.ko Kris msg09302/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
