Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On 2004-10-04 21:54, Daniela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I developed a few rules and techniques for keeping the interest: 1. Avoid doing the same thing over and over again. 2. Do bigger projects as well as some playful experimenting. 3. Don't use closed-source (or commercial) software. I don't know how you react to it, but the closed look and feel really puts me off. 4. If it's running well, don't interrupt it. Unless you feel you're hitting the wall, don't take a break while solving a complex problem. 5. Keep one style for one session. If you're into multiple things that have to do with computers, don't mix them up. Especially don't mix high-level and low-level activities. For example, don't do Javascript programming (or webdesign in general), complex image editing or maybe even 3D modelling on the console with a CLI. On the other hand, don't do ASM programming in a graphical IDE, use vi instead. If you do the dirtiest lowest-level hacks, you may be well advised to even use TECO, or some other editor which is really hard to use. I can almost agree with what's written above, except for one minor but important detail. If you can use an editor that suits your needs both in console and GUI environment, both for assembly, Perl, Python, Java, C, C++ and whatever else you find yourself writing, an editor that can easily be adopted to editing plain text email messages, theses in LaTeX, or even to browse the source code of an operating system... why would you want to torture yourself with a strange, difficult to use editor? All this that I described above, and even more, I can do in Emacs or vim. Using the system vi(1) on Solaris isn't a problem either, but I don't push myself to use *THAT* editor if I don't have to. I stopped using vi(1) on Solaris when messages like this became annoying: sun2# stty columns 190 sun2# \vi Terminal too wide : These days my $EDITOR equals 'emacs' and all is done using exactly the same interface, using the same keystrokes, the same macros and configuration options (as opposed to, say, having to learn a dozen different editors, one for each language and/or job). - Giorgos ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
Giorgos Keramidas wrote: I can almost agree with what's written above, except for one minor but important detail. If you can use an editor that suits your needs both in console and GUI environment, both for assembly, Perl, Python, Java, C, C++ and whatever else you find yourself writing, an editor that can easily be adopted to editing plain text email messages, theses in LaTeX, or even to browse the source code of an operating system... why would you want to torture yourself with a strange, difficult to use editor? I think for a lot of people, myself included the choice of editor often comes down to the KISS principle, all I really need from an editor is a means of putting data in and changing it around in a comfortable manner, I tend to spend most of my time using easy edit (default editor if you didnt know) quite often even while in X although I also use gedit, it has all the functionality i need and syntax highlighting to boot which makes it handy for perl work but since i do a lot of my editng over ssh sessions it doesnt get used that often :) -- Mike Woods IT Technician ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 11:57:44AM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: All this that I described above, and even more, I can do in Emacs or vim. Using the system vi(1) on Solaris isn't a problem either, but I don't push myself to use *THAT* editor if I don't have to. I stopped using vi(1) on Solaris when messages like this became annoying: sun2# stty columns 190 sun2# \vi Terminal too wide : Ah -- yes. That brings back memories. Trying to use sdiff(1) on Solaris. Where you want your terminal to be as wide as possible so you can display the files you're diffing side by side, but you can't use emacs(1) as your $EDITOR because the way it shuffles around copies of the files to keep a backup version confuses sdiff(1). Better hope that the stuff you're diffing is less that 66 columns wide, so you can fit it in the maximum 132 columns that Solaris vi permits. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgpW0iRt0oXS4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Tuesday 05 October 2004 08:57, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On 2004-10-04 21:54, Daniela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I developed a few rules and techniques for keeping the interest: 1. Avoid doing the same thing over and over again. 2. Do bigger projects as well as some playful experimenting. 3. Don't use closed-source (or commercial) software. I don't know how you react to it, but the closed look and feel really puts me off. 4. If it's running well, don't interrupt it. Unless you feel you're hitting the wall, don't take a break while solving a complex problem. 5. Keep one style for one session. If you're into multiple things that have to do with computers, don't mix them up. Especially don't mix high-level and low-level activities. For example, don't do Javascript programming (or webdesign in general), complex image editing or maybe even 3D modelling on the console with a CLI. On the other hand, don't do ASM programming in a graphical IDE, use vi instead. If you do the dirtiest lowest-level hacks, you may be well advised to even use TECO, or some other editor which is really hard to use. I can almost agree with what's written above, except for one minor but important detail. If you can use an editor that suits your needs both in console and GUI environment, both for assembly, Perl, Python, Java, C, C++ and whatever else you find yourself writing, an editor that can easily be adopted to editing plain text email messages, theses in LaTeX, or even to browse the source code of an operating system... why would you want to torture yourself with a strange, difficult to use editor? I'm really glad that I never got in touch with Slowlaris. IMHO there's just nothing like vi on FreeBSD, the best editor running on the best OS. Well, I already said that these are NOT rules for increased productivity. If emacs works well for you, then use it. If your interest is not fading, then you're already doing everything the right way. But for some people, including me, programming can quickly become work rather than fun. The above rules always helped to keep me interested. A little torture can be fun too. *g* Of course, I don't always do that. But when I feel that I like watching TV more than playing with ASM, I quickly switch to the monochrome terminal emulator, deactivate the mouse, emulate the destructive hardware cursor, pull out a primitive hexeditor (or TECO) and enter raw x86 opcodes. When I'm in a particularly bad mood, I might also pull out the Commodore64 emulator. On the other hand, I can also create beautiful and complex 3D scenes in a full-blown GUI with really high-level features, which is also fun. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On 2004-10-05 20:27, Daniela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But when I feel that I like watching TV more than playing with ASM, I quickly switch to the monochrome terminal emulator, deactivate the mouse, emulate the destructive hardware cursor, pull out a primitive hexeditor (or TECO) and enter raw x86 opcodes. When I'm in a particularly bad mood, I might also pull out the Commodore64 emulator. On the other hand, I can also create beautiful and complex 3D scenes in a full-blown GUI with really high-level features, which is also fun. Ah, yes... that makes sense now. I didn't understand what you were saying before :) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
Having looked at the list, honesty - it's not nearly as much as it looks like. Seriously. It's well within your ken to learn ALL of that. Easily. Just do this - get a few machines. Throw FreeBSD on them. Hell, throw Open or Net on one or two, RedHat or Gentoo or Debian on another. Now plug them all into a hub. Get them to play nicely together. Shouldn't take more than a few weeks of messing around. By the end of that you should know just about everything on that list. Not have it commited to memory, but hey - who does? I mean - why do you think they invented man pages? Believe in yourself. If I can do it, anyone can. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
Robert Dormer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having looked at the list, honesty - it's not nearly as much as it looks like. Seriously. It's well within your ken to learn ALL of that. Easily. Just do this - get a few machines. Throw FreeBSD on them. Hell, throw Open or Net on one or two, RedHat or Gentoo or Debian on another. Now plug them all into a hub. Get them to play nicely together. Shouldn't take more than a few weeks of messing around. By the end of that you should know just about everything on that list. Not have it commited to memory, but hey - who does? I mean - why do you think they invented man pages? Believe in yourself. If I can do it, anyone can. I want to second this wholeheartedly. However, take Robert's advice to heart. I think if you try to learn this stuff without a experimental network to try things out on, you'll either drive yourself mad, or simply fail. If you're serious about doing this, it's worth the $$$ to invest in 4 or 5 used computers to learn on. You really need more than one if you're going to understand how things interact across a network, and you want to have at least 1 computer that you _don't_ experiment with, so it's always reliable to use for email or searching for docs on the 'net. And I agree with Robert, that if you're serious about wanting to do this, you CAN accomplish it. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 11:46:06PM -0700, Joshua Tinnin wrote: snip Well, I can only tell you about my own experience, but perhaps it will help. I have always been a techie, getting my first computer at the age of 14 - an Apple IIe. Learned some Basic, some peeks and pokes and even some assembly. But I found that I also liked music, and tended more to that side of things for the latter half of my teens and into my 20s, though I never went to college (started a few times, but didn't know what I wanted to do). Somehow I ended up doing web design for a band in my mid 20s, and even though the band broke up, I was good enough at it that it became my career in 2000, right when the dot-com bubble started to burst. I was 30, just starting my career with no degree but making $50k (not great, but not bad), and worked for three different failed companies in the course of a year and a half. Most of this time I was using Windows, but I used various flavors of *nix during the course of my work, mostly Red Hat, plus I installed SuSE at home and used it occasionally. My specialty was front-end web development - I found it increasingly difficult to find work from 2001 onward, especially because I had no strong programming skills, but could do JavaScript and some other scripting, and I also didn't have credentials as a graphic designer, even though I could do it by gut instinct (which sometimes isn't good enough). Eventually I came to hate doing web design, partially because I couldn't find paying work, but mostly because it's not the right discipline for me anyway - it sort of fell in my lap, and I made a go of it. I've been bouncing around between low paying jobs since then, wondering how the hell to get my career started again without going back to school for four years to get a computer science degree, when I discovered FreeBSD. That was last spring. I now know exactly what I want to do, which is to get that computer science degree and then some, specializing in systems administration, and to go into teaching at the college level. First, I know this is a hard road, especially at the age of 34, but I am tired of not *really* knowing my stuff, so to speak. I've been a techie my whole life and even made some money at it, but I've gotten by without having the deep knowledge required to really understand the workings of an *nix OS such as FreeBSD, which I very much want to do, and plus it's time to get serious. I've also found that the systems administration/network end of the spectrum is what suits me best, but I don't care about getting paid big money as much as wanting to teach others (and, concurrently, also have the time and resources to devote to projects such as FreeBSD). It's not a particularly glorious career choice, and if I were a bit different I might want to really go for the corporate path and a fat salary, but honestly I'm happier not working in that sort of environment. YMMV. - jt My situation has some similarities to JT's. I graduated with a history degree back in 1994. Through a series of interesting events, a few months after graduation I found myself working as an auto mechanic. A few years after that I found myself working in customer service at a large apparel company. While at this job I created an MS Access database for myself and my small department. This was my first small jump into anything remotedly computer related. Somehow I was able to parlay that experience into a decent paying contract job working with MS Access. While working that contract I realized that networking was an area that interested me more. So, I started getting some certifications and got a job at a networking company. Up to this point (a year or two), my experience was only with MS Windows. A friend of mine mentioned to me one day that he had heard about an OS called FreeBSD, which was purported to have one of the best networking stacks around. Because of my interest in networking I installed it. As they say, the rest is history; it has been my OS ever since, both desktop and server. Regarding knowledge, there was a time in the past that I was blown away by a friend of mine who understood how to manually configure an IP address and netmask. This, among many other things, made me feel as if he were some sort of computer genius. However, my feelings about his skills were only relative my own at that time, and I didn't have any other frame of reference. Now that I have been working with computers, and specifically FreeBSD and Linux, for the past five or six years, my knowledge has utterly eclipsed that of my friend. This is the natural course of things. Yet I still feel as if I have only scratched the surface. Many people on this list would probably make me look more like an infant stacking blocks when it comes to FreeBSD. I have got to a level of proficiency and knowledge that I feel can only best proceed through
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Sunday 03 October 2004 03:50, Dave Vollenweider wrote: This has nothing to do with technical problems, but rather it's more of a request for moral support. This may seem disjointed, so bear with me. I've been using FreeBSD for over six months now, but I've been using Unix-like operating systems for almost two years. I started with Red Hat Linux back when Red Hat was making and selling their consumer-grade version of Red Hat Linux, then switched to Debian before going to FreeBSD last March. I now also run NetBSD on one of my machines. I'm into FreeBSD for over two years now. It is the only OS I ever got really close to, after using Winblows for four years. Apart from this, I only had a quick look at NetBSD and SuSE Linux. Through all this, I've developed a passion for this type of OS, seeing the elegance, performance, and sheer power of Unix. This has affected me to the point of me changing my career path. Me too. [...] Now, being that I know there are some very experienced people on this list, I'm betting that I'm not the only one that has experienced this, that learning new things in Unix-like OSs becomes more of a chore than something to do for fun. My question is, what advice would you have for dealing with this? I developed a few rules and techniques for keeping the interest: 1. Avoid doing the same thing over and over again. 2. Do bigger projects as well as some playful experimenting. 3. Don't use closed-source (or commercial) software. I don't know how you react to it, but the closed look and feel really puts me off. 4. If it's running well, don't interrupt it. Unless you feel you're hitting the wall, don't take a break while solving a complex problem. 5. Keep one style for one session. If you're into multiple things that have to do with computers, don't mix them up. Especially don't mix high-level and low-level activities. For example, don't do Javascript programming (or webdesign in general), complex image editing or maybe even 3D modelling on the console with a CLI. On the other hand, don't do ASM programming in a graphical IDE, use vi instead. If you do the dirtiest lowest-level hacks, you may be well advised to even use TECO, or some other editor which is really hard to use. I don't know to which extent these rules apply to you, but they always worked for me. Keep in mind that this is NOT the way to high productivity, but it can help if your interest is fading away. If this doesn't help, there's one more technique that will (if done properly) certainly make UNIX fun again, but it implies a LOT of overhead, and I'm almost sure you don't want to do this unless you have nothing to do for the next few months. Regards, Daniela ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: When Unix Stops Being Fun
I think what you are going through is something people go through no matter what their career path is. I would say when you reach that point is when you have to decide is this something I want to do for the next n years. The first part of my life I was a musician and did all sorts of gigs from recording, touring, casuals. After many years I hit the same point you are at now. Music just became a job it wasn't fun anymore and that is when I got into computers. I hit the same point with computers after about four or five years and went back to music. After I year I was missing computer work and returned to IT work. I have been there ever since. That is about ten years now. I would say your doing the right thing, talking through it. If you like computers a lot maybe you just need to find a specialty to peak your interest and make it exciting again. If you are not sure you want to continue, well try something else out in the background and see if it excites you. Take some night classes in what you would like to do instead of being an SA. See if after a few months of classes and learning a new career if it still excites you. If it doesn't you haven't lost your job in the computer industry. Last some people a job is just a job, a way to pay the bills and make money so they can enjoy life when not at work. They become very good at what they do, and they keep there skills up to keep being a valuable employee. They do work they enjoy, but they don't look for work to excite them. They leave work and enjoy their family, friends, and hobbies. Maybe you fall into that category. Being an SA is just an job you enjoy and you need to find new things to do when off work that interest you. Good Luck, Steve B. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Vollenweider Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 8:50 PM To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: When Unix Stops Being Fun This has nothing to do with technical problems, but rather it's more of a request for moral support. This may seem disjointed, so bear with me. I've been using FreeBSD for over six months now, but I've been using Unix-like operating systems for almost two years. I started with Red Hat Linux back when Red Hat was making and selling their consumer-grade version of Red Hat Linux, then switched to Debian before going to FreeBSD last March. I now also run NetBSD on one of my machines. Through all this, I've developed a passion for this type of OS, seeing the elegance, performance, and sheer power of Unix. This has affected me to the point of me changing my career path. Before I got into these OSs, I wanted to get into radio. Now I'd rather either be a system administrator or run my own consulting business for entities that use these types of OSs. But herein lies the problem I've been having lately: while searching around for what I'd need to know to become a system administrator, I came across this page: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/13/131727/462 and I'm overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge I'd have to gain. It took me almost two years to get to where I am today, and it looks like I've barely scratched the surface of what I'd need to know. But now, I feel like instead of learning things on my own for fun, I have to learn other things I don't really have a need to learn for myself or that I want to, just so that I can apply that to oth er peoples' situations. The result is that lately learning these OSs has become more of a chore than a fun hobby, and I'm still intimidated by what I need to learn to get to where I want to go. It almost seems like it's not worth it. Now, being that I know there are some very experienced people on this list, I'm betting that I'm not the only one that has experienced this, that learning new things in Unix-like OSs becomes more of a chore than something to do for fun. My question is, what advice would you have for dealing with this? ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.772 / Virus Database: 519 - Release Date: 10/1/2004 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Saturday 02 October 2004 08:50 pm, Dave Vollenweider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has nothing to do with technical problems, but rather it's more of a request for moral support. This may seem disjointed, so bear with me. I've been using FreeBSD for over six months now, but I've been using Unix-like operating systems for almost two years. I started with Red Hat Linux back when Red Hat was making and selling their consumer-grade version of Red Hat Linux, then switched to Debian before going to FreeBSD last March. I now also run NetBSD on one of my machines. Through all this, I've developed a passion for this type of OS, seeing the elegance, performance, and sheer power of Unix. This has affected me to the point of me changing my career path. Before I got into these OSs, I wanted to get into radio. Now I'd rather either be a system administrator or run my own consulting business for entities that use these types of OSs. But herein lies the problem I've been having lately: while searching around for what I'd need to know to become a system administrator, I came across this page: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/13/131727/462 and I'm overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge I'd have to gain. It took me almost two years to get to where I am today, and it looks like I've barely scratched the surface of what I'd need to know. But now, I feel like instead of learning things on my own for fun, I have to learn other things I don't really have a need to learn for myself or that I want to, just so that I can apply that to oth er peoples' situations. The result is that lately learning these OSs has become more of a chore than a fun hobby, and I'm still intimidated by what I need to learn to get to where I want to go. It almost seems like it's not worth it. Now, being that I know there are some very experienced people on this list, I'm betting that I'm not the only one that has experienced this, that learning new things in Unix-like OSs becomes more of a chore than something to do for fun. My question is, what advice would you have for dealing with this? Well, I can only tell you about my own experience, but perhaps it will help. I have always been a techie, getting my first computer at the age of 14 - an Apple IIe. Learned some Basic, some peeks and pokes and even some assembly. But I found that I also liked music, and tended more to that side of things for the latter half of my teens and into my 20s, though I never went to college (started a few times, but didn't know what I wanted to do). Somehow I ended up doing web design for a band in my mid 20s, and even though the band broke up, I was good enough at it that it became my career in 2000, right when the dot-com bubble started to burst. I was 30, just starting my career with no degree but making $50k (not great, but not bad), and worked for three different failed companies in the course of a year and a half. Most of this time I was using Windows, but I used various flavors of *nix during the course of my work, mostly Red Hat, plus I installed SuSE at home and used it occasionally. My specialty was front-end web development - I found it increasingly difficult to find work from 2001 onward, especially because I had no strong programming skills, but could do JavaScript and some other scripting, and I also didn't have credentials as a graphic designer, even though I could do it by gut instinct (which sometimes isn't good enough). Eventually I came to hate doing web design, partially because I couldn't find paying work, but mostly because it's not the right discipline for me anyway - it sort of fell in my lap, and I made a go of it. I've been bouncing around between low paying jobs since then, wondering how the hell to get my career started again without going back to school for four years to get a computer science degree, when I discovered FreeBSD. That was last spring. I now know exactly what I want to do, which is to get that computer science degree and then some, specializing in systems administration, and to go into teaching at the college level. First, I know this is a hard road, especially at the age of 34, but I am tired of not *really* knowing my stuff, so to speak. I've been a techie my whole life and even made some money at it, but I've gotten by without having the deep knowledge required to really understand the workings of an *nix OS such as FreeBSD, which I very much want to do, and plus it's time to get serious. I've also found that the systems administration/network end of the spectrum is what suits me best, but I don't care about getting paid big money as much as wanting to teach others (and, concurrently, also have the time and resources to devote to projects such as FreeBSD). It's not a particularly glorious career choice, and if I were a bit different I might want to really go for the corporate path and a fat salary, but honestly I'm happier not
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
Ironically, I'm switching to FreeBSD because I'm already tired. My bones are aching from years of abuse. I'm tired of.. ..being told what I can and can't do with my computers. Did you know many scanners and photocopiers cannot reproduce money? Apparently the US government has worked with the hardware manufactures to perform this feat. What's next? Probably not being able to listen to music that I'm not certified as owning. Or being able to rip a DVD I purchased. ..of not being in control of my computer. The two straws that broke my Wincamel's back were SP2 killing my machine (which I eventually solved with a BIOS update), and then (less seriously) not being able to set the theme of the task bar to the Win 2000 theme. Now I'm going to run GNOME and FVWM2, which I will be in full control of my desktop. No weird crap anymore. ..of skills becoming outdated. I was a master of the Commodore. I was a master of AmigaDOS. I was a master of MS-DOS. I was a master of Win95. I was a master of Windows NT4. Then a funny thing happened, I realized if I spent the time to learn UNIX, I could run it for the rest of life, without having to learn a new OS every time Microsoft needed to keep their stock price up. ..of GUI's. What a marvelous thing to be able to shell in to my own computer, from anywhere in the world, from many kind of computers - and check my mail, read newsgroups, write programs, etc. ..of having to enter serial numbers for tons of software I legitimately purchased. The worst is having to type in Microsoft's 44-digit activation codes anytime I want to change my HD, say from RAID 0 to RAID 1. Normally this involves a call to India. ..of purchasing software. Why drive to CompUSA and purchase WordPerfect, when I go to my ports directory and install OpenOffice? Actually I've done both, and going to the directory was a lot cheaper. Why buy MS-SQL or Sybase when I can get Interbase, MySQL, or PostreSQL for free? ..of stupid software. Firefox is so much better than IE, it's hard to where to begin. Throw in the Adblock extension, and it's the perfect tabbed browsing experience. IE is a nightmare of fear and chaos, Hey someone sent me a cool JPEG to view, OH ITS A VIRUS! ..of Linux distributions with fatal flaws. I went on a giant search to pick the perfect Linux distro, and I ended up selecting FreeBSD. Every single distro had some aspect I didn't like. ..of proprietary formats. All the emails I lost over the years that were in some kind of Outlook format that at the time I was either too lazy or too ignorant, to make a back up of. ..of malware. UNIX has been secure since it supported multiple users, which was a very long time ago. Windows has never been, and likely will never be, secure. I bought my brother a Mac, he sometimes calls to see if he needs to be concerned about the latest virus making the rounds. No., I tell him. My point is, the knowledge you gain about UNIX is your's forever. The freedom is forever. The control is forever. If want to be a sysadmin, you don't have to be master of everything. You just need to be on the path - and you are. thx! ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
bsdfsse said the following on 10/3/2004 3:12 AM: Ironically, I'm switching to FreeBSD because I'm already tired. My bones are aching from years of abuse. I'm tired of.. MuchSnippage Hear Hear!! ..of Linux distributions with fatal flaws. I went on a giant search to pick the perfect Linux distro, and I ended up selecting FreeBSD. Every single distro had some aspect I didn't like. I started with FreeBSD in the Fall of 2000, when I started at Lumeta. I loved it so much that when I built my personal server, I used it (and Wing's now running on 4.10-STABLE, and when 5.3 is out of BETA I'll most likely upgrade it...). I had played with RedHat (3 or 4.. I still have the CDs somewhere!), I had used Unix System V (on a Unix PC (ATT PC 7300) no less!) in the early 90's, but had ended up working with Windows mostly at my jobs, and thus, at home. Every time there was a new version of Windows, there were new idiosyncracies and more bullshit to cram into my head. When I started at Lumeta, I found those old Unix skills creeping back out of my memory--and they STILL WORKED! *gasp* ;) Things that attracted me to FBSD: 1) The ease of the Ports collection. No messy rpm commands to have to memorize or read man pages on--just cd /usr/ports/tree/package make install clean -- Wow. How much easier can it get? Oh I know... when you don't want the port anymore? cd /usr/ports/tree/package make deinstall ;) 2) The support in the community--I've never lacked at being able to find help. Granted, this is more Unix-oriented than FBSD-oriented.. But I have to admit that the mailing lists have been a *HUGE* help when I've needed it. 3) Finding that O'Reilly hosted articles about *BSD (Like Dru Lavigne's many articles discussing the ports tree and other nifty things in FreeBSD, and how to maintain keep them in tip-top shape)! 4) Finding that I could actually *run* more than, say, 2 or 3 services on a particular server! (The first FBSD server I helped configure at Lumeta served as our: general development, Samba-shared, user home, network print server, DNS, DHCP, Apache, RT, email server--I was amazed you could run all that on one box without it crashing daily, like Windows would at the time!) 5) The ease with which I was able to take an existing port (misc/instant-workstation) and make a Lumeta package which would run over the course of a weekend, hands-free, and build a developer's workstation to our specs! For free! I didn't need to learn any weird packaging script language (read: InstallShield), nor did I have to worry incessantly about how many licenses do we have left for ... like I had to with our Windows boxen. (There are others, of course, but these are what come to mind immediately...) ..of proprietary formats. All the emails I lost over the years that were in some kind of Outlook format that at the time I was either too lazy or too ignorant, to make a back up of. Yeah--early on I switched from Outcrack to Eudora, which, though better, still wasn't perfect--but at least it was in a Unix-like format! :) My point is, the knowledge you gain about UNIX is your's forever. The freedom is forever. The control is forever. If want to be a sysadmin, you don't have to be master of everything. You just need to be on the path - and you are. It's not all about what you have memorized. It's knowing where to look for the information. I have *no* qualms telling people in interviews, when they ask me a question I don't know the answer to off the top of my head, that I could easily find that information via man command or a Google search. In general, I have found that if the person interviewing you Has Clueage, that's better to them than someone sitting there scratching their head going Um.. let me think... um... for a few minutes. Myself, I am preparing to migrate my home PC from WinXP to FreeBSD 5.x soon. Mostly because I'm sick of the stupid driver conflicts, spontaneous reboots where M$ blames my NVidia drivers, and software that ceases to work because of SP2 (my screensavers, no less. And--do they cease to work gracefully? Noo--that'd be too polite--it just locks the PC with a black screen and a mouse pointer which is the only thing that responds to anything, forcing a reboot. Nice eh?). I'm already using Firefox, Thunderbird, and OO.o, so the switch shouldn't be too bad :) Best, Glenn -- They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
Ted Mittelstaedt [Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 10:46:05PM -0700]: As an analogy - there's lots of people that know how to pull into a service station and add air to their car tires. But out of all those people that have learned how to do this only a tenth of them know that tire pressure rises when the tire gets warmer, and of those people, only another tenth WOULD ASSUME THAT THIS WOULD BE THE CASE IF THEY THOUGHT ABOUT IT because they actually understand what gas pressure is. And if one of the people in that group had never added air in his life to a tire, and you told him to go do it, he would not only be able to go do it, he would be able to add exactly the correct amount of air needed for the tire. I really liked that part about a sciencist! On the other hand, I think it is too enthusiastic, applying theory to practice needs a few things more... :) -- m ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
Hi, I had a glance at that list you refer to and the article it refers to. Don't worry, you don't need to know and learn all that: copy files to and from a floppy disk?? I don't even remember when I had a computer with a floppy drive. On the other hand, the vi editor? Well, I have known people who wrote a 200 page astronomy thesis in latex using vi, but in most cases you won't use vi. So why is it important? Because it is so simple, it is one of the few things that you can rely on when your system has crashed. But even then, I actually know one SA whose Digital Unix crashed so hard that it could only run ed. Some things you want at almost all costs to avoid, NIS for example, and NIS+ in particular, I have found that most manuals say if you don't REALLY (and I mean REALLY) need it, don't use it. LDAP can replace NIS and solve many other problems at the same time, yet it's not on the list. Some of the things, you really already know: launch an application from the commandline? from GNOME? And some things you just can't learn before you need to: Basic trouble- shooting - what to do when your system just works?? :-) Mostly this list summarizes the tasks and tools you will likely be doing or using if you follow a path as SA. You don't need to know it all, it is far more important that you know where to look and can learn as needed. One thing I find missing though is security aspects which has been reduced to basic security. Today there are so many tools for system administration that this is not that complicated a task. There are only few to manage security. There's much to learn, so don't waste your time learning the things you don't need, often you will also be more motivated having a real problem to solve. I have found that the most valuable skill a good SA has is LAZINESS! Yup, but beware, there are two kinds: You can be lazy in the sence that you only do what is absolutely necessary and postpone it as much as posible - this is the negative kind. Then, on the other hand, you can be clever! Being clever allows you to minimize the work involved in any task and still get it done on time. So, when I refer to laziness, it's the second kind. For this reason, I'd recommend you to learn the tools, not the tasks. The tasks changes much more often than the tools. Learn the most power- full tools first, they'll get you far. Secondly, learn in general the differences between like products, know what are their strengths and weaknesses. This way you can choose the right tool to the right problem. Perl is a good hammer and bangs many nails quickly, but sometimes you need a screwdriver for the problem you have. Btw, Perl AFAIK is the true product of the clever laziness. It took me almost two years to get to where I am today, and it looks like I've barely scratched the surface of what I'd need to know. But now, I feel like instead of learning things on my own for fun, I have to learn other things I don't really have a need to learn for myself or that I want to, just so that I can apply that to other peoples' situations. Most work involves solving other peoples problems. When it comes to SA, I think it is much more fun to adminster real users. On my home network, I have three users, me, myself and my mirror image. I have to go look in the mirror to meet any of my users, and eventually I found that I just don't have enough problems to keep me occupied - that is now, after I switched to FreeBSD, before with RedHat linux, I could always do the occasional reinstall or sit down and try to trace the dependencies and with Windows I needed an assistant :-) On a real network you become the hero of the day and the one people love to hate. You get a big screen so you can hide behind it and your office appears empty. You get a huge number of interesting and very different tasks, and what you have tried at home you get to try on a much bigger scale - you can actually test things with real workload and not just simulate. You get access to tons of equipment - your servers may be a cluster or blade whatever, and not that old Pentium 133Mhz. You will likely be buying new equipment to test and play with, and if things works well, buy more to install. All that is fun. Then you will have users who will complain everyday about the same problems and who feel you should serve them first. There are tons of aspects to good system administration, not only the technical stuff. As the SA, you will be the one who enables people to communicate, you will be in the center of that communication, you will know things you don't want to know, and things you shouldn't. All these things makes it more interesting than your home network, I'd say. So keep up the good work ;-) and don't worry if you don't have the answer at hand - you can always say 42 .. :-) Cheers, Erik -- Ph: +34.666334818 web: www.locolomo.org S/MIME Certificate: http://www.locolomo.org/crt/2004071206.crt Subject ID:
Addendum: When Unix Stops Being Fun
I thank you all for your responses so far. I actually meant to post my original message to FreeBSD Newbies, but I posted it here by mistake. Since the damage has been done, I may as well continue. I just wanted to clarify a few things about where I'm coming from: 1) I'm not actually going for the RHCE certification. That page which talked about what would be required was just something I came across when I was Googling for tips on how to start a SA career. I mention it because most of the responses to the original question dealt more with system adiministration in general, and I thought it was worth paying attention to for that reason. 2) The one job I have right now that entails system administration is a volunteer job at my alma mater's student run radio station. They have four Windows boxes, a NetBSD box that I set up, and a Mac that I also want to put NetBSD on as soon as I can get it to boot the installer. Right now the problems I have to deal with mainly have to do with the automation software for two of the Windows boxes and getting at least one of the network cards for the NetBSD box registered with the university so that it can be on their network. My apologies for posting to the wrong list; that was dumb of me, I know. - Dave ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On 10/2/2004 at 10:50 PM Dave Vollenweider wrote: | I came across this page: | http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/13/131727/462 and | I'm overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge I'd have to gain. = That page is ridiculous. You do not need to know all those items. You may not even need to know a third of them. What you do need is a basic knowledge of how *nix works, common troubleshooting skills, a curiosity to learn, and an ability to learn. When I hire people to work in my engineering department, I do not have a checklist of skills needed, I am more interested in a person's base knowledge, curiosity, and ability to learn. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 01:57:11PM +0200, Erik Norgaard wrote: I have found that the most valuable skill a good SA has is LAZINESS! Yup, but beware, there are two kinds: You can be lazy in the sence that you only do what is absolutely necessary and postpone it as much as posible - this is the negative kind. Then, on the other hand, you can be clever! Being clever allows you to minimize the work involved in any task and still get it done on time. So, when I refer to laziness, it's the second kind. You forgot about impatience and hubris; also important virtues for anyone working with computers. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgpy4diyedblK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun - some advice
Some Advice, There are many things in life that seem like daunting tasks, some of them worthwhile, some not. But its the goal beyond the task that should be the deciding factor. Learning unix is not a reason. Its like saying you want to have children just for the sake of having them. Why do you want to learn unix? To enable yourself to start a business? To develop some great product idea? To enpower yourself to advance your career? Those are worthwhile reasons. There are lots of ways to occupy your mind. But its the ones with the really good reasons to learn it who are the best at it. Its also important to always remember (in life generally), that no matter how knowledgable you become, there will always be someone more knowledgeable, so don't be discouraged by others, or the fact that you are behind. Those others are the way you catch up, by listening to them, separating fact from bullshit, and advancing your own knowledge. The top of the bell curve is when you can spot the posers, the know-it-alls who really know nothing at all. Thats when you'll know you are on your way. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Oct 2, 2004, at 11:50 PM, Dave Vollenweider wrote: This has nothing to do with technical problems, but rather it's more of a request for moral support. This may seem disjointed, so bear with me. Alt.sysadmin.recovery? :-) I've been using FreeBSD for over six months now, but I've been using Unix-like operating systems for almost two years. I started with Red Hat Linux back when Red Hat was making and selling their consumer-grade version of Red Hat Linux, then switched to Debian before going to FreeBSD last March. I now also run NetBSD on one of my machines. Sounds like the path many administrators start out on :-) Through all this, I've developed a passion for this type of OS, seeing the elegance, performance, and sheer power of Unix. This has affected me to the point of me changing my career path. Before I got into these OSs, I wanted to get into radio. Now I'd rather either be a system administrator or run my own consulting business for entities that use these types of OSs. But herein lies the problem I've been having lately: while searching around for what I'd need to know to become a system administrator, I came across this page: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/13/131727/462 and I'm overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge I'd have to gain. It's a good overview, but man oh man...you can't memorize all of that. Worse, things change over time. The Linux way to accomplish something changes depending on the distro, the release version,... the important thing is that you can *look it up* and are able to understand the fundamentals. You may not know precisely how to sit down and get that new printer to print first time through and have it going in ten minutes, but you should be familiar enough to know that it may have something to do with configuring LPR and/or SMB sharing or CUPS to not be scratching your head over what to look for next. You should be able to google with decent search terms and be able to follow howtos. The stuff from the courses are pretty specific. Good to know, yes. Only thing to know? NO. You need to be flexible because in two years that test will be outdated and not of extreme use when you're trying to figure out how to install apache on FreeBSD properly...they don't have ports on Red Hat :-) (heresy, I know, old schoolers are chanting *install from source! install from source!* and everyone should have had to try that at some point in their learning process...) Also, there's sub niches in learning system administration. You can't be a great jack of all trades, but you can be familiar with the areas and be really good at one or two. I hate hardware. I can make Cat5 patches, but I don't enjoy it. I know people that would love to spend all their time punching drops and if put in support would rather punch users. Some people spend more time getting adept at diagnosing network problems, or setting up servers and maintaining them. Some people get stuck in niches and never adapt or grow (ever find people who think Netware is the ultimate server OS for everything under the sun? Could you at least consider that maybe a small Linux machine could have handled that without the cost??). Some people truly enjoy helping users with training or minor tech support, like a lab support person. That list is daunting. Find what you like. After setting up five or six machines, you get exposed to that stuff in due time. If you're a fast learner and good at googling for information, it'll all be okay :-) It took me almost two years to get to where I am today, and it looks like I've barely scratched the surface of what I'd need to know. But now, I feel like instead of learning things on my own for fun, I have to learn other things I don't really have a need to learn for myself or that I want to, just so that I can apply that to oth er peoples' situations. Um...yeah. That happens. Surest way to kill a passion is to make it a job :-) Just make sure the benefits outweigh the hassles. You'll hang in there. You'll have to learn a lot of gotcha's along the way, that's just the way life is. Especially in technology. The result is that lately learning these OSs has become more of a chore than a fun hobby, and I'm still intimidated by what I need to learn to get to where I want to go. It almost seems like it's not worth it. That's a decision only you can make. You know, you don't need to stay in one profession your whole life. Why not combine radio with technology? Start a radio show about technology. Work as a consultant for stations. Start an Internet radio show like Radio Tiki did. Most departments in businesses aren't just one person. If you start a consultation business, take in employees or a partner. Or if you go into the real world, there's usually other people working with you. You have to have a support system for learning, and in my experience, two people can easily complement each
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Oct 3, 2004, at 3:12 AM, bsdfsse wrote: Ironically, I'm switching to FreeBSD because I'm already tired. My bones are aching from years of abuse. I'm tired of.. ..being told what I can and can't do with my computers. Did you know many scanners and photocopiers cannot reproduce money? Apparently the US government has worked with the hardware manufactures to perform this feat. What's next? Probably not being able to listen to music that I'm not certified as owning. Or being able to rip a DVD I purchased. (Somewhat OT...sorry...) I agree with your post 100%, and I remember frequent discussions about this (scanning money being hardware crippled), but sitting here and reading your post reminded me my wallet was on the desk and my new scanner is sitting here...well, thought I'd test it. Must be my scanner's broken, because I just scanned and printed the face side of a $20 bill. Almost 11 long on the printout, but still looks like a giant $20. Just curious if it would work or not. Excuse me while I shred it before the Secret Service comes knocking on my door... -Bart ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
In a message dated 10/3/04 4:31:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Excuse me while I shred it before the Secret Service comes knocking on my door... Is the secret service in charge of counterfiting now? (as you can see no formal education is required to be an SA) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 17:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/3/04 4:31:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Excuse me while I shred it before the Secret Service comes knocking on my door... Is the secret service in charge of counterfiting now? (as you can see no formal education is required to be an SA) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anti-counterfeiting was one of the original purposes for which the Secret Service was formed. Be really careful about doing things like this - it is possible to get into a lot of trouble even with no criminal intent. As a purely theoretical question - is it possible to be guilty of an offence by being in possession of a digital image of a currency bill? At what resolution does it become an offence? ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun
On Sun, Oct 03, 2004, Mike Jeays wrote: On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 17:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/3/04 4:31:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Excuse me while I shred it before the Secret Service comes knocking on my door... Is the secret service in charge of counterfiting now? (as you can see no formal education is required to be an SA) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anti-counterfeiting was one of the original purposes for which the Secret Service was formed. Yup. Counterfeiting is only allowed by the Federal Reserve. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Systems, Inc. UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ ``I presume you all know who I am. I am humble Abraham Lincoln. I have been solicited by many friends to become a candidate for the legistlature. My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman's dance. I am in favor of a national bank ... in favor of the internal improvements system, and a high protective tariff.'' -- Abraham Lincoln, 1832 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When Unix Stops Being Fun (pushing the thread even more OT)
it was said: As a purely theoretical question - is it possible to be guilty of an offence by being in possession of a digital image of a currency bill? At what resolution does it become an offence? Hello, This exactly answers your questions: http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/legislation/repro.html Seems like possession of _any_ digital image of Canadian paper currency is a crime. To see what the rules are for other countries: http://www.rulesforuse.org For an interesting news item on this topic: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/01/copying.dollars.ap/index.html HTH, Stheg ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When Unix Stops Being Fun
This has nothing to do with technical problems, but rather it's more of a request for moral support. This may seem disjointed, so bear with me. I've been using FreeBSD for over six months now, but I've been using Unix-like operating systems for almost two years. I started with Red Hat Linux back when Red Hat was making and selling their consumer-grade version of Red Hat Linux, then switched to Debian before going to FreeBSD last March. I now also run NetBSD on one of my machines. Through all this, I've developed a passion for this type of OS, seeing the elegance, performance, and sheer power of Unix. This has affected me to the point of me changing my career path. Before I got into these OSs, I wanted to get into radio. Now I'd rather either be a system administrator or run my own consulting business for entities that use these types of OSs. But herein lies the problem I've been having lately: while searching around for what I'd need to know to become a system administrator, I came across this page: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/13/131727/462 and I'm overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge I'd have to gain. It took me almost two years to get to where I am today, and it looks like I've barely scratched the surface of what I'd need to know. But now, I feel like instead of learning things on my own for fun, I have to learn other things I don't really have a need to learn for myself or that I want to, just so that I can apply that to oth er peoples' situations. The result is that lately learning these OSs has become more of a chore than a fun hobby, and I'm still intimidated by what I need to learn to get to where I want to go. It almost seems like it's not worth it. Now, being that I know there are some very experienced people on this list, I'm betting that I'm not the only one that has experienced this, that learning new things in Unix-like OSs becomes more of a chore than something to do for fun. My question is, what advice would you have for dealing with this? ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: When Unix Stops Being Fun
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Vollenweider Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 8:50 PM To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: When Unix Stops Being Fun This has nothing to do with technical problems, but rather it's more of a request for moral support. This may seem disjointed, so bear with me. I've been using FreeBSD for over six months now, but I've been using Unix-like operating systems for almost two years. I started with Red Hat Linux back when Red Hat was making and selling their consumer-grade version of Red Hat Linux, then switched to Debian before going to FreeBSD last March. I now also run NetBSD on one of my machines. Through all this, I've developed a passion for this type of OS, seeing the elegance, performance, and sheer power of Unix. This has affected me to the point of me changing my career path. Before I got into these OSs, I wanted to get into radio. Now I'd rather either be a system administrator or run my own consulting business for entities that use these types of OSs. But herein lies the problem I've been having lately: while searching around for what I'd need to know to become a system administrator, I came across this page: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/13/131727/462 A fair overview of things to learn. I would say though that by the time you learned all these 'prerequisites' you would have no need for the course of study. Now, keep in mind this - this ISN'T a list of things that you need to MEMORIZE. Knowing how to do things is different than memorizing a sequence of key clicks or mouse clicks to make something happen. Many people are out there that could memorize exactly how to do everything on this list - but because they don't really know how to do them, if I came along and made one little change in a script or a program, they would be screwed. By contrast someone who knows how to do all these things can walk in and sit down at a version of UNIX that they have never touched, never heard of, never seen, and within 3-4 hours not only be able to do all these things, they could write instructions for the people that need to memorize how to do them. As an analogy - there's lots of people that know how to pull into a service station and add air to their car tires. But out of all those people that have learned how to do this only a tenth of them know that tire pressure rises when the tire gets warmer, and of those people, only another tenth WOULD ASSUME THAT THIS WOULD BE THE CASE IF THEY THOUGHT ABOUT IT because they actually understand what gas pressure is. And if one of the people in that group had never added air in his life to a tire, and you told him to go do it, he would not only be able to go do it, he would be able to add exactly the correct amount of air needed for the tire. and I'm overwhelmed by the sheer amount of knowledge I'd have to gain. It took me almost two years to get to where I am today, and it looks like I've barely scratched the surface of what I'd need to know. I've been working with FreeBSD since version 1 and 386BSD before that. Over 10 years now. I even wrote a book on FreeBSD that was published in 2000 titled The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide. (it's out of print now but you can still buy it off Amazon) I'm still scratching the surface. You need to understand 2 things. First, the UNIX field is so vast that no one person can learn everything there is to know about it, EVER. Second, the amount of NEW information in the UNIX field that is being created every year cannot possibly be absorbed by one person in a year, even if all they did was learn new things. This is how all of the really serious jobs/fields operate, it's no different with a doctor, auto mechanic, lawyer, etc. This is why if your good in these fields you get paid the big bucks. But now, I feel like instead of learning things on my own for fun, I have to learn other things I don't really have a need to learn for myself or that I want to, just so that I can apply that to oth er peoples' situations. Well, yes. That's why they call it work Nobody is going to pay you money to work on your own stuff. They only pay you to work on THEIR stuff. If 50% of the time their stuff is in the same universe as your stuff, your doing a damn sight better than most people. The result is that lately learning these OSs has become more of a chore than a fun hobby, and I'm still intimidated by what I need to learn to get to where I want to go. Your never going to get where you want to go - not if your any good at it, that is. Take it from me. I've done everything that you say you want to do. By the time that you get to where I am, your not going to be satisfied being a mere systems administrator or consultant, not if your worth spit. I certainly wasn't. In other words, life is a series of goals - and when you get close to one of them
