Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Garrett Cooper]

Micah wrote:

 Garrett Cooper wrote:

 On Nov 6, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Micah wrote:

 Skylar Thompson wrote:

 Micah wrote:


 My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was 
 upgrading Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It 
 looks like sometime around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This 
 morning I'm trying to reinstall all the software that got lost in 
 last night's reset and I get another reset in the middle of 
 compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages before reboot is:
 Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
 Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
 Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/
 kernel

 I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing 
 it's a hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?


 Could it be a bad power supply? Try swapping in another one and 
 see what happens.



 I was thinking that too, unfortunately I don't have a spare and was
 hoping to diagnose before buying parts.  Voltages look fine when I 
 check the accessory lines (+5 and +12) with a multimeter under load.

 Thanks,
 Micah



 It might not just be a bad power supply, but instead a lack of
 power  due to the power supply rating. So my question is, what is the
 rating  of the power supply and how many devices (hard drives, ATX
 powered  video cards) do you have connected?
 -Garrett


 It had been working fine since I bought it at the beginning of
 September.  It's a 350 watt PSU running an Asus A8V-E deluxe mobo with
 an Athlon 64 3000+.  I have one ata 100 hd, one DVD-RW, and one
 floppy.  For expansion cards I have a PCI-EX vid card (MSI X300se),
 and an Intel NIC.  Plus the keyboard and two mice and that pretty much
 accounts for all power drainers.

 Right now under load the multimeter reads 11.89 on +12, 5.12-5.08 on
 +5 (did a min/max reading over several minutes on that one) and 3.36
 on +3.

 Thanks,
 Micah

Doesn't really sound like a lot, but depending on the amount of
memory, I wonder since the power rating is _somewhat low_ and depending
on which area of the world you live in, the amount of current output may
be higher or lower, based on voltage values output by your power
supply... Also, is your version of FreeBSD also running in 64 bit mode
or 32 bit mode?
-Garrett
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Alex Zbyslaw]

Micah wrote:

Except it reboot later when rebuilding the KDE stuff with portinstall 
NOT the Gnome script.  And I'm getting occasional segmentation faults 
on Thunderbird and intermittent compiler errors like this one while 
portinstalling kdepim:
then mv -f .deps/eudora_xxport.Tpo .deps/eudora_xxport.Plo; else 
rm -f .deps/eudora_xxport.Tpo; exit 1; fi
eudora_xxport.cpp: In member function `virtual KABC::AddresseeList 
EudoraXXPort::importContacts(const QString) const':

eudora_xxport.cpp:121: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
Please submit a full bug report,
with preprocessed source if appropriate.
See URL:http://gcc.gnu.org/bugs.html for instructions.

While I agree with the previous poster that the upgrade script is a pig 
(why does it silently update ports which have *nothing* to do with 
gnome?) that is not you problem.  The script may take all day, or all 
week, to finish, but it *should* finish.


You have a *hardware* problem.  Random segfaults are a classic bad 
memory symptom.  Whether you have a memory stick that is going 
permanently, or getting too hot, or not getting enough voltage under 
load I cannot say, but but one of them or something like it is happening.


Something seems wrong.  I don't think a software error should cause a 
system reboot without any log messages anywhere. 


With a memory fault (or any other hardware fault) all bets are off.  
Think about it.  If the program and data that you are supposed to be 
running become corrupted, how on earth can the kernel guarantee to write 
something to a log file?  It was doing exactly what it was supposed to 
do and then it got fed garbage.  Garbage in, garbage out - that's been 
true since forever and isn't going to change.


--Alex

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Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Gorski, Jim]

Micah,

I had a motherboard fail with a similar set of symptoms.
Mine was due to bad capacitors on the motherboard itself.
Take a look and make certain that none of them are swollen
or pushing material out the top.

Heat also leads to random resets - is your fan still running
smoothly or is it covered in dust and cat hair like mine..?

Best of luck - hope this helps,

Jim Gorski


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:59:37 -0800
From: Garrett Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

snip
 Micah wrote:


 My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was 
 upgrading Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It 
 looks like sometime around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This 
 morning I'm trying to reinstall all the software that got lost in 
 last night's reset and I get another reset in the middle of 
 compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages before reboot
is:
 Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
 Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
 Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/
 kernel

 I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing 
 it's a hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?


 Could it be a bad power supply? Try swapping in another one and 
 see what happens.

snip
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Garrett Cooper wrote:

Micah wrote:



Garrett Cooper wrote:



On Nov 6, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Micah wrote:



Skylar Thompson wrote:



Micah wrote:


My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was 
upgrading Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It 
looks like sometime around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This 
morning I'm trying to reinstall all the software that got lost in 
last night's reset and I get another reset in the middle of 
compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages before reboot is:

Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/
kernel

I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing 
it's a hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?



Could it be a bad power supply? Try swapping in another one and 
see what happens.




I was thinking that too, unfortunately I don't have a spare and was
hoping to diagnose before buying parts.  Voltages look fine when I 
check the accessory lines (+5 and +12) with a multimeter under load.


Thanks,
Micah




   It might not just be a bad power supply, but instead a lack of
power  due to the power supply rating. So my question is, what is the
rating  of the power supply and how many devices (hard drives, ATX
powered  video cards) do you have connected?
-Garrett



It had been working fine since I bought it at the beginning of
September.  It's a 350 watt PSU running an Asus A8V-E deluxe mobo with
an Athlon 64 3000+.  I have one ata 100 hd, one DVD-RW, and one
floppy.  For expansion cards I have a PCI-EX vid card (MSI X300se),
and an Intel NIC.  Plus the keyboard and two mice and that pretty much
accounts for all power drainers.

Right now under load the multimeter reads 11.89 on +12, 5.12-5.08 on
+5 (did a min/max reading over several minutes on that one) and 3.36
on +3.

Thanks,
Micah



Doesn't really sound like a lot, but depending on the amount of
memory, I wonder since the power rating is _somewhat low_ and depending
on which area of the world you live in, the amount of current output may
be higher or lower, based on voltage values output by your power
supply... Also, is your version of FreeBSD also running in 64 bit mode
or 32 bit mode?
-Garrett


I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't think to 
check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into the PSU from the 
surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new PSU today.  The parts 
store has a couple of 400 watters in the $50 range (a fortron and a 
thermaltake).


I did a lucifer burn-in test last night and got 8 errors over a two hour 
period.  I ran the mprime torture test this morning (after the computer 
had been powered off overnight) and it passed.  I didn't have the 
high-low meter attached to see how the voltages looked.


Thanks,
Micah
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Bill Moran]

Micah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't think to 
 check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into the PSU from the 
 surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new PSU today.  The parts 
 store has a couple of 400 watters in the $50 range (a fortron and a 
 thermaltake).

I'm coming to this conversation late, so I apologize if this information
has already been presented.

Cheap power supplies are a near guarantee that your computer will be
unstable.  Unfortunately, $cheap doesn't always == quality cheap.

This article is the best I've ever seen for describing how important
a PS is to a computer, and how difficult it is to find a reliable one:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/index.html

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Gorski, Jim wrote:

Micah,

I had a motherboard fail with a similar set of symptoms.
Mine was due to bad capacitors on the motherboard itself.
Take a look and make certain that none of them are swollen
or pushing material out the top.

Heat also leads to random resets - is your fan still running
smoothly or is it covered in dust and cat hair like mine..?

Best of luck - hope this helps,

Jim Gorski


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:59:37 -0800
From: Garrett Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

snip


Micah wrote:


My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was 
upgrading Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It 
looks like sometime around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This 
morning I'm trying to reinstall all the software that got lost in 
last night's reset and I get another reset in the middle of 
compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages before reboot


is:


Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/
kernel

I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing 
it's a hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?



Could it be a bad power supply? Try swapping in another one and 
see what happens.



snip


I cleaned out all the fans, but they weren't that dirty.  I can't test 
the temps while the system is under load (have to reboot and check them 
in the bios).  My Dad said he'd bring by his spot-read thermometer if he 
remembers so I can check the temps of everything.  The CPU heatsink and 
memory are cool to the touch under load.  I didn't see any obvious signs 
of burnt/damaged components.  No telltale smell either.


Thanks,
Micah
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Bill Moran]

Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Micah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't think to 
  check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into the PSU from the 
  surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new PSU today.  The parts 
  store has a couple of 400 watters in the $50 range (a fortron and a 
  thermaltake).
 
 I'm coming to this conversation late, so I apologize if this information
 has already been presented.
 
 Cheap power supplies are a near guarantee that your computer will be
 unstable.  Unfortunately, $cheap doesn't always == quality cheap.
 
 This article is the best I've ever seen for describing how important
 a PS is to a computer, and how difficult it is to find a reliable one:
 http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/index.html

My mistake.  This isn't the article I thought it was.  It turns out that
the article I'm thinking of was done in 2002, and it seems as if Tom's
Hardware has been doing regular reviews of PS since.  The original
article was interesting in that it listed several power supplies that
burned out well below their advertised voltage:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html

I recommend the more recent one as a guage for what manufacturers you
can trust.  Frankly, if you're only spending $50 on a 400W, you're
probably getting a piece of junk - although Fortron has been rating
well in Tom's tests.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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Re: Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Roland Smith]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 07:11:42AM -0800, Micah wrote:
 
 I cleaned out all the fans, but they weren't that dirty.  I can't test 
 the temps while the system is under load (have to reboot and check them 
 in the bios). 

Try xmbmon of mbmon from the/usr/ports/sysutils/xmbmon port. That should
help you read the temperatures.

Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith (http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/) Please send e-mail as plain text.
public key: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/pubkey.txt


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Re: Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Roland Smith wrote:

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 07:11:42AM -0800, Micah wrote:

I cleaned out all the fans, but they weren't that dirty.  I can't test 
the temps while the system is under load (have to reboot and check them 
in the bios). 



Try xmbmon of mbmon from the/usr/ports/sysutils/xmbmon port. That should
help you read the temperatures.

Roland


Tried that before.  It doesn't properly support my mobo.  It displays a 
constant temp for both MB and CPU as 127 deg celsius (260.6 F).


Thanks,
Micah

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Re: Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Roland Smith]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 08:17:48AM -0800, Micah wrote:
 Roland Smith wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 07:11:42AM -0800, Micah wrote:
 
 I cleaned out all the fans, but they weren't that dirty.  I can't test 
 the temps while the system is under load (have to reboot and check them 
 in the bios). 
 
 
 Try xmbmon of mbmon from the/usr/ports/sysutils/xmbmon port. That should
 help you read the temperatures.
 
 Roland
 
 Tried that before.  It doesn't properly support my mobo.  It displays a 
 constant temp for both MB and CPU as 127 deg celsius (260.6 F).

Try forcing another access method. With the standard method my mobo also
give bogus values:

  slackbox:~$ mbmon -c1   
  Temp.= 127.0, 127.0,  0.0; Rot.=0,0,0
  Vcore = 0.00, 0.00; Volt. = 0.00, 0.00,  0.00,   0.00,  0.00

Forcing access via an ISA port gives the correct result:

  slackbox:~$ mbmon -c1 -I
  Temp.= 26.0, 39.5, 21.5; Rot.= 1117, 2280,0
  Vcore = 1.39, 2.99; Volt. = 3.34, 5.05, 15.50,   1.54, -6.10

Hope this helps,

Roland
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Alex Zbyslaw]

Bill Moran wrote:


Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


Micah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   

I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't think to 
check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into the PSU from the 
surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new PSU today.  The parts 
store has a couple of 400 watters in the $50 range (a fortron and a 
thermaltake).
 


Cheap power supplies are a near guarantee that your computer will be
unstable.  Unfortunately, $cheap doesn't always == quality cheap.
   


I recommend the more recent one as a guage for what manufacturers you
can trust.  Frankly, if you're only spending $50 on a 400W, you're
probably getting a piece of junk - although Fortron has been rating
well in Tom's tests.
 

A PSU actually capable of 350W *ought* to have done you fine, but many 
cheap PSUs, as Bill says, just don't cut it.  I'd personally recommend a 
Seasonic, which won't be cheap, but will be quiet and reliable if mine 
is anything to go by.  Antec also seem to have a reasonable rep.


There's a nice wattage claculator here: 
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?


--Alex

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Re: Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Alex Zbyslaw]

Micah wrote:


Roland Smith wrote:


On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 07:11:42AM -0800, Micah wrote:

I cleaned out all the fans, but they weren't that dirty.  I can't 
test the temps while the system is under load (have to reboot and 
check them in the bios). 




Try xmbmon of mbmon from the/usr/ports/sysutils/xmbmon port. That should
help you read the temperatures.



Tried that before.  It doesn't properly support my mobo.  It displays 
a constant temp for both MB and CPU as 127 deg celsius (260.6 F).



On an ASUS Athlon 64 board (that's what you have isn't it?), -p winbond 
worked reasonably for me.


--Alex
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Alex Zbyslaw wrote:

Bill Moran wrote:


Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


Micah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't think 
to check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into the PSU 
from the surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new PSU today.  
The parts store has a couple of 400 watters in the $50 range (a 
fortron and a thermaltake).



Cheap power supplies are a near guarantee that your computer will be
unstable.  Unfortunately, $cheap doesn't always == quality cheap.
  


I recommend the more recent one as a guage for what manufacturers you
can trust.  Frankly, if you're only spending $50 on a 400W, you're
probably getting a piece of junk - although Fortron has been rating
well in Tom's tests.
 

A PSU actually capable of 350W *ought* to have done you fine, but many 
cheap PSUs, as Bill says, just don't cut it.  I'd personally recommend a 
Seasonic, which won't be cheap, but will be quiet and reliable if mine 
is anything to go by.  Antec also seem to have a reasonable rep.


There's a nice wattage claculator here: 
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?


--Alex


Thanks for the link.  I actually used that calculator when I pieced this 
machine together.


I'm really beginning to doubt it's the PSU.  Why?  I cannot get the 
output voltage to drop no matter what load I throw at it.  I plugged in 
four additional hard drives and ran a system stress test and still the 
voltages remained rock steady at the values I stated earlier.  I ran it 
for an hours with the high-low monitor on a Fluke multimeter.  The +5 
stayed near 5.1 with 5.08 as the bottom, and the +12 stayed near 11.89 
with 11.84 as the minimum.  I even had one of the random segfaults and 
the +12 voltage never dropped below 11.84.  I'm not sure how I can get 
the load any higher without using resistors which most certainly does 
not simulate the load I'm generating while compiling.


That leaves memory, CPU or mobo.  I ran memtest86+ and it reported no 
errors.  I'll run it again for an extended period of time while I'm at 
school to see if it reports anything.  That leaves CPU and mobo.  Anyone 
got any ideas how to test those?  The only system test I can run that 
does report an error is Lucifer 1.0 (on the ultimate boot cd).  The 
mprime test and cpuburn do not find any errors.


Thanks,
Micah
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Bill Schoolcraft]

At Mon, 7 Nov 2005 it looks like Micah composed:


Alex Zbyslaw wrote:

Bill Moran wrote:


Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Micah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't think to 
check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into the PSU from the 
surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new PSU today.  The parts 
store has a couple of 400 watters in the $50 range (a fortron and a 
thermaltake).




Cheap power supplies are a near guarantee that your computer will be
unstable.  Unfortunately, $cheap doesn't always == quality cheap.



I recommend the more recent one as a guage for what manufacturers you
can trust.  Frankly, if you're only spending $50 on a 400W, you're
probably getting a piece of junk - although Fortron has been rating
well in Tom's tests.

A PSU actually capable of 350W *ought* to have done you fine, but many 
cheap PSUs, as Bill says, just don't cut it.  I'd personally recommend a 
Seasonic, which won't be cheap, but will be quiet and reliable if mine is 
anything to go by.  Antec also seem to have a reasonable rep.


There's a nice wattage claculator here: 
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?


--Alex


Thanks for the link.  I actually used that calculator when I pieced this 
machine together.


I'm really beginning to doubt it's the PSU.  Why?  I cannot get the output 
voltage to drop no matter what load I throw at it.  I plugged in four 
additional hard drives and ran a system stress test and still the voltages 
remained rock steady at the values I stated earlier.  I ran it for an hours 
with the high-low monitor on a Fluke multimeter.  The +5 stayed near 5.1 with 
5.08 as the bottom, and the +12 stayed near 11.89 with 11.84 as the minimum. 
I even had one of the random segfaults and the +12 voltage never dropped 
below 11.84.  I'm not sure how I can get the load any higher without using 
resistors which most certainly does not simulate the load I'm generating 
while compiling.


Hello,

How were you using the Fluke meter to test amperage?  I was not
aware that it would work with a ground line embedded inside the
power cable?

I currently have a Fluke-T5-600 and I'm curious about the above
test.  http://www.tequipment.net/FlukeT5-600VoltageTester.html

Thanks


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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Alex Zbyslaw]

Micah wrote:

I'm really beginning to doubt it's the PSU.  Why?  I cannot get the 
output voltage to drop no matter what load I throw at it.  I plugged 
in four additional hard drives and ran a system stress test and still 
the voltages remained rock steady at the values I stated earlier.  I 
ran it for an hours with the high-low monitor on a Fluke multimeter.  
The +5 stayed near 5.1 with 5.08 as the bottom, and the +12 stayed 
near 11.89 with 11.84 as the minimum.  I even had one of the random 
segfaults and the +12 voltage never dropped below 11.84.  I'm not 
sure how I can get the load any higher without using resistors which 
most certainly does not simulate the load I'm generating while compiling.


That leaves memory, CPU or mobo.  I ran memtest86+ and it reported no 
errors.  I'll run it again for an extended period of time while I'm at 
school to see if it reports anything.  That leaves CPU and mobo.  
Anyone got any ideas how to test those?  The only system test I can 
run that does report an error is Lucifer 1.0 (on the ultimate boot 
cd).  The mprime test and cpuburn do not find any errors.


The usual advice is to run memtest86 overnight, but I'm not convinced it 
will find a fault related to either temperature or load, since memtest 
seems to cause neither.  Still, worth a try.


When I was arsing around with overclocking, I could reliably crash the 
machine (IIRC) like this:

   run cpu burn
   run mprime (or was it a pi generator?  can't recall now...)
   wait for temp to hit max
   kill cpuburn!
   wait  5 mins for either machine to crash or prime/pi test to have error

I was fairly convinced at the time that it was the memory which didn't 
cope.  This is possibly not far off what happens in a big series of 
stressful compiles.


As for diagnosing faults, you may be down to replacing components one at 
a time and seeing if it makes a difference.  That's easier when the 
machine crashes quickly, so if you can find something which reliably 
crashes it, that's good.  If you have 1 memory stick and the machine 
will run with a single stick, try each stick in turn.  You could also 
try deliberately under-performing the memory and see if that makes it 
reliable.  Was the memory you go on the compatibility list for the mobo?


Hope that helps,

--Alex



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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Michael Lieske]

 At Mon, 7 Nov 2005 it looks like Micah composed:

 Alex Zbyslaw wrote:
 Bill Moran wrote:

 Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Micah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I'm running the i386 version of FreeBSD with 1gb ram.  Didn't
 think to  check this before, but I'm getting ~112-113 volts into
 the PSU from the  surge strip.  I'm probably going to get a new
 PSU today.  The parts  store has a couple of 400 watters in the
 $50 range (a fortron and a  thermaltake).


 Cheap power supplies are a near guarantee that your computer will
 be unstable.  Unfortunately, $cheap doesn't always == quality
 cheap.


 I recommend the more recent one as a guage for what manufacturers
 you can trust.  Frankly, if you're only spending $50 on a 400W,
 you're probably getting a piece of junk - although Fortron has been
 rating well in Tom's tests.

 A PSU actually capable of 350W *ought* to have done you fine, but
 many  cheap PSUs, as Bill says, just don't cut it.  I'd personally
 recommend a  Seasonic, which won't be cheap, but will be quiet and
 reliable if mine is  anything to go by.  Antec also seem to have a
 reasonable rep.

 There's a nice wattage claculator here:
 http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?

 --Alex

 Thanks for the link.  I actually used that calculator when I pieced
 this  machine together.

 I'm really beginning to doubt it's the PSU.  Why?  I cannot get the
 output  voltage to drop no matter what load I throw at it.  I plugged
 in four  additional hard drives and ran a system stress test and still
 the voltages  remained rock steady at the values I stated earlier.  I
 ran it for an hours  with the high-low monitor on a Fluke multimeter.
 The +5 stayed near 5.1 with  5.08 as the bottom, and the +12 stayed
 near 11.89 with 11.84 as the minimum.  I even had one of the random
 segfaults and the +12 voltage never dropped  below 11.84.  I'm not
 sure how I can get the load any higher without using  resistors which
 most certainly does not simulate the load I'm generating  while
 compiling.

 Hello,

 How were you using the Fluke meter to test amperage?  I was not
 aware that it would work with a ground line embedded inside the
 power cable?

 I currently have a Fluke-T5-600 and I'm curious about the above
 test.  http://www.tequipment.net/FlukeT5-600VoltageTester.html

 Thanks

I wasn't checking amps because everything I've read says that a bad supply
will show voltage fluctuations.  I just stuck the probes into available +5
and +12 lines (seperate tests) and let it sit in min/max mode for a while.

Later,
Micah


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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Michael Lieske]

 Micah wrote:

 I'm really beginning to doubt it's the PSU.  Why?  I cannot get the
 output voltage to drop no matter what load I throw at it.  I plugged
 in four additional hard drives and ran a system stress test and still
 the voltages remained rock steady at the values I stated earlier.  I
 ran it for an hours with the high-low monitor on a Fluke multimeter.
 The +5 stayed near 5.1 with 5.08 as the bottom, and the +12 stayed
 near 11.89 with 11.84 as the minimum.  I even had one of the random
 segfaults and the +12 voltage never dropped below 11.84.  I'm not
 sure how I can get the load any higher without using resistors which
 most certainly does not simulate the load I'm generating while
 compiling.

 That leaves memory, CPU or mobo.  I ran memtest86+ and it reported no
 errors.  I'll run it again for an extended period of time while I'm at
  school to see if it reports anything.  That leaves CPU and mobo.
 Anyone got any ideas how to test those?  The only system test I can
 run that does report an error is Lucifer 1.0 (on the ultimate boot
 cd).  The mprime test and cpuburn do not find any errors.

 The usual advice is to run memtest86 overnight, but I'm not convinced it
  will find a fault related to either temperature or load, since memtest
 seems to cause neither.  Still, worth a try.

 When I was arsing around with overclocking, I could reliably crash the
 machine (IIRC) like this:
 run cpu burn
 run mprime (or was it a pi generator?  can't recall now...)
 wait for temp to hit max
 kill cpuburn!
 wait  5 mins for either machine to crash or prime/pi test to have
 error

 I was fairly convinced at the time that it was the memory which didn't
 cope.  This is possibly not far off what happens in a big series of
 stressful compiles.

 As for diagnosing faults, you may be down to replacing components one at
  a time and seeing if it makes a difference.  That's easier when the
 machine crashes quickly, so if you can find something which reliably
 crashes it, that's good.  If you have 1 memory stick and the machine
 will run with a single stick, try each stick in turn.  You could also
 try deliberately under-performing the memory and see if that makes it
 reliable.  Was the memory you go on the compatibility list for the mobo?

 Hope that helps,

 --Alex

Unfortunately I cannot reliably reproduce it.  If I remember correctly the
memmory was on the compatibility list.  I do wish I had bought two sticks
of 512 rather than one of 1024.

Thanks,
Micah


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Re: Subject: Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Alex Zbyslaw wrote:

Micah wrote:


Roland Smith wrote:


On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 07:11:42AM -0800, Micah wrote:

I cleaned out all the fans, but they weren't that dirty.  I can't 
test the temps while the system is under load (have to reboot and 
check them in the bios). 





Try xmbmon of mbmon from the/usr/ports/sysutils/xmbmon port. That should
help you read the temperatures.




Tried that before.  It doesn't properly support my mobo.  It displays 
a constant temp for both MB and CPU as 127 deg celsius (260.6 F).



On an ASUS Athlon 64 board (that's what you have isn't it?), -p winbond 
worked reasonably for me.


--Alex


Thanks for the tips.  I tried each probe and access method and -P lm75 
-S  are the only ones that don't immediately error out, and it still 
gives me:

trisha% mbmon -P lm75 -S

Temp.= 127.0, 127.0,  0.0; Rot.=0,0,0
Vcore = 0.00, 0.00; Volt. = 0.00, 0.00,  0.00,   0.00,  0.00

Will play with it more later.
Micah
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Skylar Thompson]

Micah wrote:



My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was upgrading 
Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It looks like 
sometime around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This morning I'm trying 
to reinstall all the software that got lost in last night's reset and 
I get another reset in the middle of compiling.  The last message in 
/var/log/messages before reboot is:

Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/kernel

I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing it's 
a hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?



Could it be a bad power supply? Try swapping in another one and see what 
happens.


--
-- Skylar Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
-- http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~skylar/



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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Skylar Thompson wrote:

Micah wrote:



My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was upgrading 
Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It looks like 
sometime around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This morning I'm trying 
to reinstall all the software that got lost in last night's reset and 
I get another reset in the middle of compiling.  The last message in 
/var/log/messages before reboot is:

Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/kernel

I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing it's 
a hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?




Could it be a bad power supply? Try swapping in another one and see what 
happens.




I was thinking that too, unfortunately I don't have a spare and was
hoping to diagnose before buying parts.  Voltages look fine when I check 
the accessory lines (+5 and +12) with a multimeter under load.


Thanks,
Micah
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Beecher Rintoul]

On Sunday 06 November 2005 12:20 pm, Micah wrote:
 My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was upgrading
 Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It looks like sometime
 around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This morning I'm trying to reinstall
 all the software that got lost in last night's reset and I get another
 reset in the middle of compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages
 before reboot is:
 Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
 Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
 Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/kernel

 I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing it's a
 hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?

 Thanks,
 Micah

I had the exact same problem on a machine that I know doesn't have any 
hardware problems. I should have just aborted that script when it started 
removing anything dependent on the new gnome libs. If you got as far as the 
new gnome progs installed. Just rebuild  what you need. And use the r flag. 
I'd much rather have a lib not found error than rebuild the way that script 
does.  I'm sure this is going to bite quite a few people before it's over.
FWIW I have the new kde back up with no errors, and I'll just deal with any 
other problems as they occur.

Beech

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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Micah]

Beecher Rintoul wrote:

On Sunday 06 November 2005 12:20 pm, Micah wrote:


My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was upgrading
Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It looks like sometime
around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This morning I'm trying to reinstall
all the software that got lost in last night's reset and I get another
reset in the middle of compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages
before reboot is:
Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/kernel

I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing it's a
hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?

Thanks,
Micah



I had the exact same problem on a machine that I know doesn't have any 
hardware problems. I should have just aborted that script when it started 
removing anything dependent on the new gnome libs. If you got as far as the 
new gnome progs installed. Just rebuild  what you need. And use the r flag. 
I'd much rather have a lib not found error than rebuild the way that script 
does.  I'm sure this is going to bite quite a few people before it's over.
FWIW I have the new kde back up with no errors, and I'll just deal with any 
other problems as they occur.


Beech



Except it reboot later when rebuilding the KDE stuff with portinstall 
NOT the Gnome script.  And I'm getting occasional segmentation faults on 
Thunderbird and intermittent compiler errors like this one while 
portinstalling kdepim:
then mv -f .deps/eudora_xxport.Tpo .deps/eudora_xxport.Plo; else rm 
-f .deps/eudora_xxport.Tpo; exit 1; fi
eudora_xxport.cpp: In member function `virtual KABC::AddresseeList 
EudoraXXPort::importContacts(const QString) const':

eudora_xxport.cpp:121: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
Please submit a full bug report,
with preprocessed source if appropriate.
See URL:http://gcc.gnu.org/bugs.html for instructions.

Something seems wrong.  I don't think a software error should cause a 
system reboot without any log messages anywhere.


Thanks,
Micah
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Re: Diagnosing reboot under load

[Beecher Rintoul]

On Sunday 06 November 2005 05:43 pm, Micah wrote:
 Beecher Rintoul wrote:
  On Sunday 06 November 2005 12:20 pm, Micah wrote:
 My desktop system just started doing this last night.  I was upgrading
 Gnome using the handy shell script they provide.  It looks like sometime
 around 11:30pm the computer reset.  This morning I'm trying to reinstall
 all the software that got lost in last night's reset and I get another
 reset in the middle of compiling.  The last message in /var/log/messages
 before reboot is:
 Nov  6 10:41:08 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 6001
 Nov  6 10:58:14 trisha ntpd[489]: kernel time sync enabled 2001
 Nov  6 13:02:57 trisha syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/kernel
 
 I just ran memtest86+ and there's no memory errors.  I'm guessing it's a
 hardware issue, but how do I diagnose it?
 
 Thanks,
 Micah
 
  I had the exact same problem on a machine that I know doesn't have any
  hardware problems. I should have just aborted that script when it
  started removing anything dependent on the new gnome libs. If you got as
  far as the new gnome progs installed. Just rebuild  what you need. And
  use the r flag. I'd much rather have a lib not found error than rebuild
  the way that script does.  I'm sure this is going to bite quite a few
  people before it's over. FWIW I have the new kde back up with no errors,
  and I'll just deal with any other problems as they occur.
 
  Beech

 Except it reboot later when rebuilding the KDE stuff with portinstall
 NOT the Gnome script.  And I'm getting occasional segmentation faults on
 Thunderbird and intermittent compiler errors like this one while
 portinstalling kdepim:
 then mv -f .deps/eudora_xxport.Tpo .deps/eudora_xxport.Plo; else rm
 -f .deps/eudora_xxport.Tpo; exit 1; fi
 eudora_xxport.cpp: In member function `virtual KABC::AddresseeList
 EudoraXXPort::importContacts(const QString) const':
 eudora_xxport.cpp:121: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
 Please submit a full bug report,
 with preprocessed source if appropriate.
 See URL:http://gcc.gnu.org/bugs.html for instructions.

 Something seems wrong.  I don't think a software error should cause a
 system reboot without any log messages anywhere.

I agree, I've never seen this before either. I just shelled into one of my 
office machines running the same update; it's no longer online. The box in 
question is a new AMD 64 with 1GB of regestered ram, that has been rock solid 
running 6-stable. When I left last night, It was updating gnome and kde from 
current ports. I'll drive over after dinner and see what's really happening. 
For now you probably should just cvsup with the date tag set before the gnome 
update, delete and it all and start over. On this box, I deleted everything 
(which already wasn't) Installed the (new) gnome ports, and so far I have 
basic kde and firefox installed and working. I would have been really nice if 
the coders would reveal why this new script was important. I'll probably find 
out the hard way.

Beech
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