Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
In message <20091116180102.61682...@gmx.de>, you wrote: >Am Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:19:29 -0800 >schrieb "Ronald F. Guilmette" : > >> I _did_ go and read the Handbook section that Manolis Kiagias >> kindly posted a link to, and I have now tried _both_ of the two >> ways described there to re-enable CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE functionality >> for the X server, and sadly I must report that for me, at least >> _neither_ of those methods worked > > >Put the following to your xorg.conf: > > >Section "ServerFlags" > Option "DontZap" "off" > Option "AllowEmptyInput" "off" > Option "AutoAddDevices" "off" >EndSection > >Section "InputDevice" > Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" >EndSection > > >This works for me very reliable (xorg-7.4_2). Ummm... yes. Thanks. That does seem to work nicely. Thanks a bunch. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Philipp Lengemann wrote: Am Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:19:29 -0800 schrieb "Ronald F. Guilmette" : I _did_ go and read the Handbook section that Manolis Kiagias kindly posted a link to, and I have now tried _both_ of the two ways described there to re-enable CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE functionality for the X server, and sadly I must report that for me, at least _neither_ of those methods worked Put the following to your xorg.conf: Section "ServerFlags" Option "DontZap" "off" Option "AllowEmptyInput" "off" Option "AutoAddDevices" "off" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" EndSection This works for me very reliable (xorg-7.4_2). That InputDevice entry is interesting. It has to be added to a Keyboard section, not standalone as shown (unless I missed something). (If it was standalone, it would nicely eliminate the need for the setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp entry in my .xinitrc.) For those who want to do that with hal, for all keyboards, here's a patch for /usr/local/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi: --- 10-x11-input.fdi.orig 2009-11-16 14:47:01.0 -0700 +++ 10-x11-input.fdi2009-11-16 14:54:01.0 -0700 @@ -22,6 +22,7 @@ string="Linux"> evdev + terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:35:54 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: > >> If you stick with HAL however (using "AllowEmptyInput" bypasses the >> autodetection), you can just use the policy file in the Handbook and >> just add the "DontZap" option in "ServerFlags" or "ServerLayout" section. >> > ^^ > Or? Arbitrary locations again? :-) > > Hehe, both places will work actually. A default xorg.conf generated with the '-configure' option, will not have a "ServerFlags" section (which is entirely optional), but will certainly have a "ServerLayout" one. 'DontZap' (and other options) work in both places. Disclaimer: Xorg people will probably break this again in about 15days. Handle with care! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:35:54 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: > If you stick with HAL however (using "AllowEmptyInput" bypasses the > autodetection), you can just use the policy file in the Handbook and > just add the "DontZap" option in "ServerFlags" or "ServerLayout" section. ^^ Or? Arbitrary locations again? :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
Philipp Lengemann wrote: > Am Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:19:29 -0800 > schrieb "Ronald F. Guilmette" : > > >> I _did_ go and read the Handbook section that Manolis Kiagias >> kindly posted a link to, and I have now tried _both_ of the two >> ways described there to re-enable CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE functionality >> for the X server, and sadly I must report that for me, at least >> _neither_ of those methods worked >> > > > Put the following to your xorg.conf: > > > Section "ServerFlags" > Option "DontZap" "off" > Option "AllowEmptyInput" "off" > Option "AutoAddDevices" "off" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" > EndSection > > > This works for me very reliable (xorg-7.4_2). > > If you stick with HAL however (using "AllowEmptyInput" bypasses the autodetection), you can just use the policy file in the Handbook and just add the "DontZap" option in "ServerFlags" or "ServerLayout" section. In fact, I've just written a patch for the Handbook that adds this information and will be committed soon. In the meantime, you can view it here: http://www.freebsdgr.org/handbook-mine/x-config.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
Am Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:19:29 -0800 schrieb "Ronald F. Guilmette" : > I _did_ go and read the Handbook section that Manolis Kiagias > kindly posted a link to, and I have now tried _both_ of the two > ways described there to re-enable CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE functionality > for the X server, and sadly I must report that for me, at least > _neither_ of those methods worked Put the following to your xorg.conf: Section "ServerFlags" Option "DontZap" "off" Option "AllowEmptyInput" "off" Option "AutoAddDevices" "off" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" EndSection This works for me very reliable (xorg-7.4_2). HTH ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Jerry wrote: On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:18:36 -0700 (MST) Warren Block replied: It's also worth remembering that open source projects like xorg give the users the rare privilege of being able to make a difference. Test code, provide hardware, document bugs or fixes, do or fund development. If that were true, it might be worth noting. Unfortunately, it rarely works like that. I recently started using a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard. Of course the mouse did not work in "X", although it performed fine outside of "X". After investing valuable time in Googling for a solution, I ended up editing files for HAL and adding Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowEmptyInput" "OFF" EndSection to the 'xorg.conf' file. It appears the thread has mutated from "it's unpleasant when X changes" to "why doesn't xorg support my hardware?" Which are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Honestly, that is not acceptable. Evidently no one has been in the position to fix the problem. The opportunity is there, as I was saying above. Certainly there have been reports of problems with wireless keyboard/mouse of several brands; maybe a slightly different protocol with the wireless versions. Whether the problem is with hal or xorg-server or the keyboard and mouse drivers or USB or some interaction, I don't know. You have the hardware; how about doing some research to help improve this? Just knowing what causes the problem would be a long way towards a real solution. On every Windows and MAC system I tested, the combo works without this garbage. It just works. No drivers to install, unless I want the extended capabilities of the keyboard/mouse. Why does it have to be so freak-in difficult here. Because the number of people using xorg are so small in relation to Windows and OS X. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:18:36 -0700 (MST) Warren Block replied: >On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Polytropon wrote: > >> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:21:28 +0200, Manolis Kiagias >> wrote: >>> Just the fact that I now have to edit an xml file to simply add a >>> Greek keyboard layout is annoying enough. >> >> The fact that annoys me is that configuration seems to have >> disassembled into several parts that are not located in a >> central file (such as xorg.conf has been); I have no problem >> with editing text files if I need to, but now it's getting >> somewhat complicated - I'm not confortable with the fact that >> FreeBSD is (getting) complicated, I always loved it because >> everything is so simple. > >But xorg is not FreeBSD, so this is an unreasonable statement. >FreeBSD is simple. X has never been particularly simple, and the fact >that complexity grows over time is nothing new, either. > >> But I am not complaining! :-) I've been told that those changes >> are absolutely needed to design the creation of new software >> more efficiently and cheaper; this is often confused with "bloat", >> but it's not, it's evolution! And there's no way around. > >Of course there is: if you're happy with the state of your software, >stop there! Don't upgrade. Don't replace what's working with >something newer. > >That option is usually more difficult than it initially seems. The >rest of the world tends to keep on evolving. > >> I would be more happy if things would really get better, or >> even not worse, but sadly, they seem to. Software gets slower >> as well as less accessible - Gtk 2, used by many programs, is >> a good (bad) example. Am I supposed to buy new computer to replace >> perfectly running systems just to keep the "overall usage speed" >> of everything at the same level? > >As above, you don't *have* to upgrade. Keep the old software, and the >old hardware will run it. > >Like everybody, I grumble about changes that don't seem to improve >things at the user level. But I try to remember that without change, >nothing can improve. > >It's also worth remembering that open source projects like xorg give >the users the rare privilege of being able to make a difference. Test >code, provide hardware, document bugs or fixes, do or fund development. If that were true, it might be worth noting. Unfortunately, it rarely works like that. I recently started using a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard. Of course the mouse did not work in "X", although it performed fine outside of "X". After investing valuable time in Googling for a solution, I ended up editing files for HAL and adding Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowEmptyInput" "OFF" EndSection to the 'xorg.conf' file. Honestly, that is not acceptable. On every Windows and MAC system I tested, the combo works without this garbage. It just works. No drivers to install, unless I want the extended capabilities of the keyboard/mouse. Why does it have to be so freak-in difficult here. How the hell are we suppose to entice potential users to non Window's platforms when a simple thing like adding a keyboard or mouse to a system becomes a challenge. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com |=== |=== |=== |=== | Do unto others before they undo you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Polytropon wrote: On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:21:28 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: Just the fact that I now have to edit an xml file to simply add a Greek keyboard layout is annoying enough. The fact that annoys me is that configuration seems to have disassembled into several parts that are not located in a central file (such as xorg.conf has been); I have no problem with editing text files if I need to, but now it's getting somewhat complicated - I'm not confortable with the fact that FreeBSD is (getting) complicated, I always loved it because everything is so simple. But xorg is not FreeBSD, so this is an unreasonable statement. FreeBSD is simple. X has never been particularly simple, and the fact that complexity grows over time is nothing new, either. But I am not complaining! :-) I've been told that those changes are absolutely needed to design the creation of new software more efficiently and cheaper; this is often confused with "bloat", but it's not, it's evolution! And there's no way around. Of course there is: if you're happy with the state of your software, stop there! Don't upgrade. Don't replace what's working with something newer. That option is usually more difficult than it initially seems. The rest of the world tends to keep on evolving. I would be more happy if things would really get better, or even not worse, but sadly, they seem to. Software gets slower as well as less accessible - Gtk 2, used by many programs, is a good (bad) example. Am I supposed to buy new computer to replace perfectly running systems just to keep the "overall usage speed" of everything at the same level? As above, you don't *have* to upgrade. Keep the old software, and the old hardware will run it. Like everybody, I grumble about changes that don't seem to improve things at the user level. But I try to remember that without change, nothing can improve. It's also worth remembering that open source projects like xorg give the users the rare privilege of being able to make a difference. Test code, provide hardware, document bugs or fixes, do or fund development. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Polytropon wrote: On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:49:04 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: By the way Xorg configuration becomes more and more elusive. Initially, DontZap was enough. Then it had no effect at all and the fdi file was needed. Now seems both are needed. What's next? If this continues, I'll run my 5.4-p8 workstation with "old fashioned" X (already X.org) until I die. :-) No, honestly: X is going to be more and more annoying. Have you noticed the long startup time? Nearly a half minute (!!!) on a 1.5 GHz system! That's way too long for just X. Bloated desktop environment? Disk contention? I know that there is lots of work done to make life easier for X developers, especially getting rid of many OS specific stuff, but... Finally, sliding more off-topic: Not only X gets slower with each release, the same applies for almost all X applications, except the "old fashioned" ones. It sounds like we have very different experiences. While I wouldn't say the current xorg is a lot faster (not counting DRM), it's certainly not slower on any of the systems I have to test. But I don't know what video board you're using either. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:21:28 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: > Just the fact that I now have to edit an xml file to simply add a Greek > keyboard layout is annoying enough. The fact that annoys me is that configuration seems to have disassembled into several parts that are not located in a central file (such as xorg.conf has been); I have no problem with editing text files if I need to, but now it's getting somewhat complicated - I'm not confortable with the fact that FreeBSD is (getting) complicated, I always loved it because everything is so simple. > Combine with the fact that for some reason keyboard / mouse may or may > not be detected depending on the machine, phase of the moon etc, > needing AutoAddInputDevices and AllowEmptyInput hacks, I'd call it > nightmare on HAL street... This famous quote comes to mind: HAL: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over. ... Maybe this is all fine as long as you have up-to-date hardware that will deliver all the data needed for the autodetection and autoconfiguration magic, but what's if you're *insisting* on using a 21" Eizo CRT and a three button Sun mouse (where the middle mouse button does both middle-click and wheel)? And then I really ask myself: Will the xmodmap "hack" (i. e. or i. has been the canonical way) still work for my Sun keyboard that I insist on using? > But that's enough ranting for tonight, I had an entire blog post > complaining about it. But I am not complaining! :-) I've been told that those changes are absolutely needed to design the creation of new software more efficiently and cheaper; this is often confused with "bloat", but it's not, it's evolution! And there's no way around. I would be more happy if things would really get better, or even not worse, but sadly, they seem to. Software gets slower as well as less accessible - Gtk 2, used by many programs, is a good (bad) example. Am I supposed to buy new computer to replace perfectly running systems just to keep the "overall usage speed" of everything at the same level? Oh wait, that's economy. Let us be thankful we have commerce. Buy more. Buy more now. Buy. And be happy. So much from the famous quoting department. :-) > Let's just hope we can cope with the documentation > changes so we have some place to resort to! I hope "documentation" refers to "how documentation should be properly done, and how it IS done in FreeBSD", and not the (sorry) Linux way of documentation. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:49:04 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: > >> By the way Xorg configuration becomes more and more elusive. Initially, >> DontZap was enough. Then it had no effect at all and the fdi file was >> needed. Now seems both are needed. What's next? >> > > If this continues, I'll run my 5.4-p8 workstation with "old > fashioned" X (already X.org) until I die. :-) > > I feel your pain... > No, honestly: X is going to be more and more annoying. Have > you noticed the long startup time? Nearly a half minute (!!!) > Don't have any startup time problems myself. I mostly run on Atom CPUs, nothing fancy. > on a 1.5 GHz system! I know that there is lots of work done > to make life easier for X developers, especially getting rid > of many OS specific stuff, but... > > Finally, sliding more off-topic: Not only X gets slower with > each release, the same applies for almost all X applications, > except the "old fashioned" ones. > > Just the fact that I now have to edit an xml file to simply add a Greek keyboard layout is annoying enough. Combine with the fact that for some reason keyboard / mouse may or may not be detected depending on the machine, phase of the moon etc, needing AutoAddInputDevices and AllowEmptyInput hacks, I'd call it nightmare on HAL street... But that's enough ranting for tonight, I had an entire blog post complaining about it. Let's just hope we can cope with the documentation changes so we have some place to resort to! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:49:04 +0200, Manolis Kiagias wrote: > By the way Xorg configuration becomes more and more elusive. Initially, > DontZap was enough. Then it had no effect at all and the fdi file was > needed. Now seems both are needed. What's next? If this continues, I'll run my 5.4-p8 workstation with "old fashioned" X (already X.org) until I die. :-) No, honestly: X is going to be more and more annoying. Have you noticed the long startup time? Nearly a half minute (!!!) on a 1.5 GHz system! I know that there is lots of work done to make life easier for X developers, especially getting rid of many OS specific stuff, but... Finally, sliding more off-topic: Not only X gets slower with each release, the same applies for almost all X applications, except the "old fashioned" ones. Sad. Just: Sad. Thanks for your patience so I could say this. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > Many thanks to those who responded regarding my two questions. > > With regards to the CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE sequence and its ability > (or lack thereof) to cause an immediate shutdown of the X server... > well... I _did_ go and read the Handbook section that Manolis Kiagias > kindly posted a link to, and I have now tried _both_ of the two > ways described there to re-enable CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE functionality > for the X server, and sadly I must report that for me, at least > _neither_ of those methods worked. I did everything exactly and > precisely as described. I even cut and pasted the code in the Handbook > that was suggested for the /usr/local/etc/hal/fdi/policy/x11-input.fdi > file, and still, CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE is producing no effect whatsoever > for me. This is on 7.2-RELEASE/amd64. > > What now? send-pr? > > Keep the x11-input.fdi section from the Handbook, and also add the following line to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, at the end of the "ServerLayout" section: Option "DontZap" "false" Restart your system, it should work now. (Just tried it on mine. It won't work without both of these changes). Please report back if it works for you! By the way Xorg configuration becomes more and more elusive. Initially, DontZap was enough. Then it had no effect at all and the fdi file was needed. Now seems both are needed. What's next? I'll test this in a few other systems and update the Handbook section if it seems to be the latest norm. Thanks! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > I've just been installing 7.2-RELEASE/amd64 on a fresh/wiped system > that I plan to use as my future "main" workstation. > > Anyway, I've already noticed a couple of things that seem to be different > from prior release that I need to ask about, i.e.: > > 1) It appears that CNTL-ALT-DEL now causes a shutdown/reboot. (I don't > know what release this new feature started in... I only just noticed it > now.) Anyway, I'd like to know how I can disable this particular bit of > functionality. How do I do that? > Add: hw.syscons.kbd_reboot=0 to /etc/sysctl.conf. Activate immediately by executing sysctl hw.syscons.kbd_reboot=0 > 2) Prior versions of X (Xorg?) allowed CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE to cause an > immediate shutdown of the X server, but now, that doesn't see to work > anymore. How can I (re-)enable this functionality? > > Welcome to the new Xorg and HAL... Please read this: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html There is a note that describes how to re-enable CTRL+ALT+BKSP functionality. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trivial questions about CNTL-ALT-DEL and CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE
On 11/9/09, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > I've just been installing 7.2-RELEASE/amd64 on a fresh/wiped system > that I plan to use as my future "main" workstation. > > Anyway, I've already noticed a couple of things that seem to be different > from prior release that I need to ask about, i.e.: > > 1) It appears that CNTL-ALT-DEL now causes a shutdown/reboot. (I don't > know what release this new feature started in... I only just noticed it > now.) Anyway, I'd like to know how I can disable this particular bit of > functionality. How do I do that? # sysctl -d hw.syscons.kbd_reboot hw.syscons.kbd_reboot: enable keyboard reboot > > 2) Prior versions of X (Xorg?) allowed CNTL-ALT-BACKSPACE to cause an > immediate shutdown of the X server, but now, that doesn't see to work > anymore. How can I (re-)enable this functionality? Thanks to the new versions of xorg, they removed that functionality. A config file with "DontZap" equal to "off" re-enables it. Google for DontZap to find where to put it in the config. > > Thanks in advance for any answers. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
