Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Steve Bertrand]

On 2010.11.11 23:49, Adam Vande More wrote:

> I thought I remembered this little gem:
> 
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2008-June/177810.html

LMFAO!!

Steve

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Steve Bertrand]

On 2010.11.11 19:44, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Not this shit again...

Amen!

Steve
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Richard T C Farnes]

To Da Rock and others
Please feel free  to use my text here in any marketing.

On Tuesday 23 November 2010 00:47:50 Da Rock wrote:
> On 11/23/10 07:29, Richard T C Farnes wrote:
> > Why do some people get  hung up in some  features of our cute little
> > mascot that remind them of devils. You must look at it in a positive way
> > that represents FreeBSD like a sporting character that has a sporty
> > attitude. Just observe the modern running shoes and it has a harpoon in
> > its hand to signify being ready to attack all problems on the way. Linux
> > has only a lazy penguin that does not seem to be  doing anything except
> > sitting on its behind.
> >
> > Hope this answers all questions about this matter
> > Sign
> > Richard Farnes
>
> If you don't mind, I'll use that perspective in my marketing. I like
> that one :)
>
> > On Saturday 20 November 2010 09:00:04 Da Rock wrote:
> >> On 11/14/10 05:22, Chad Perrin wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 12:36:29PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
>  On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:08:51PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > Did you know...
> > If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> > but what's worse is when you play it forward
> 
>  I like this one - though you could update if from W 2000 to a more
>  current one.
> >>>
> >>> I vote Vista.
> >>
> >> I vote Winblow$ 7. The bloody "cloud" for photos ad on tv gives me the
> >> shits no end. 1) As if you'd need more than one computer to edit a
> >> photo, and 2) as if you could solve anything with M$ crap in the first
> >> place...
> >>
> >> And the missus doesn't like the idea of an "unnatural" photo either, so
> >> that'd be 2 votes
> >>
> >> Oh and thank you! Finally I have a FreeBSD media system! Hoorah! Now to
> >> move forward finally...
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Da Rock]

On 11/23/10 07:29, Richard T C Farnes wrote:

Why do some people get  hung up in some  features of our cute little mascot
that remind them of devils. You must look at it in a positive way that
represents FreeBSD like a sporting character that has a sporty attitude. Just
observe the modern running shoes and it has a harpoon in its hand to signify
being ready to attack all problems on the way. Linux has only a lazy penguin
that does not seem to be  doing anything except sitting on its behind.

Hope this answers all questions about this matter
Sign
Richard Farnes


   
If you don't mind, I'll use that perspective in my marketing. I like 
that one :)



On Saturday 20 November 2010 09:00:04 Da Rock wrote:
   

On 11/14/10 05:22, Chad Perrin wrote:
 

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 12:36:29PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
   

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:08:51PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
 

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
   

I like this one - though you could update if from W 2000 to a more
current one.
 

I vote Vista.
   

I vote Winblow$ 7. The bloody "cloud" for photos ad on tv gives me the
shits no end. 1) As if you'd need more than one computer to edit a
photo, and 2) as if you could solve anything with M$ crap in the first
place...

And the missus doesn't like the idea of an "unnatural" photo either, so
that'd be 2 votes

Oh and thank you! Finally I have a FreeBSD media system! Hoorah! Now to
move forward finally...

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Alejandro Imass]

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Richard T C Farnes
 wrote:
[...]
> Linux has only a lazy penguin
> that does not seem to be  doing anything except sitting on its behind.
>

:-)
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Richard T C Farnes]

Why do some people get  hung up in some  features of our cute little mascot 
that remind them of devils. You must look at it in a positive way that 
represents FreeBSD like a sporting character that has a sporty attitude. Just  
observe the modern running shoes and it has a harpoon in its hand to signify 
being ready to attack all problems on the way. Linux has only a lazy penguin 
that does not seem to be  doing anything except sitting on its behind.

Hope this answers all questions about this matter
Sign
Richard Farnes


On Saturday 20 November 2010 09:00:04 Da Rock wrote:
> On 11/14/10 05:22, Chad Perrin wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 12:36:29PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> >> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:08:51PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> >>> Did you know...
> >>> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> >>> but what's worse is when you play it forward
> >>
> >> I like this one - though you could update if from W 2000 to a more
> >> current one.
> >
> > I vote Vista.
>
> I vote Winblow$ 7. The bloody "cloud" for photos ad on tv gives me the
> shits no end. 1) As if you'd need more than one computer to edit a
> photo, and 2) as if you could solve anything with M$ crap in the first
> place...
>
> And the missus doesn't like the idea of an "unnatural" photo either, so
> that'd be 2 votes
>
> Oh and thank you! Finally I have a FreeBSD media system! Hoorah! Now to
> move forward finally...
>
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Andrew Falanga]

2010/11/11 José Silveira 

> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!
>
>
Jose,

So many have replied already and I truthfully haven't read each post.  I did
want to say something about this though since I am a Christian.  Early on I
was a little troubled.  However, this was due, not to some tennent of the
faith but rather to my ignorance of my own faith and immaturity.  The
reality is, that mascot for FreeBSD has nothing whatsoever to do with Satan.

Andy
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Da Rock]

On 11/14/10 05:22, Chad Perrin wrote:

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 12:36:29PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
   

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:08:51PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
 

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
   

I like this one - though you could update if from W 2000 to a more
current one.
 

I vote Vista.

   
I vote Winblow$ 7. The bloody "cloud" for photos ad on tv gives me the 
shits no end. 1) As if you'd need more than one computer to edit a 
photo, and 2) as if you could solve anything with M$ crap in the first 
place...


And the missus doesn't like the idea of an "unnatural" photo either, so 
that'd be 2 votes


Oh and thank you! Finally I have a FreeBSD media system! Hoorah! Now to 
move forward finally...


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Da Rock]

On 11/13/10 16:08, Chris Brennan wrote:

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Bruce Cran  wrote:

   

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:08:51 -0500
Chris Brennan  wrote:

 

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
   ...it installs Windows 2000
   

Yes, I think we know that by now.

--
Bruce Cran

 

It's part of my signature it's not like I am spamming *just* my sig to
the list.

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,

but what's worse is when you play it forward
   ...it installs Windows 2000
   

I personally love it - way too true! Mind if I use it?

Incidentally, doesn't this hold true for all Winblow$ disks?

Cheers
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Julian H. Stacey]

per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> Wojciech Puchar  wrote:
> 
> > there will no no next language. there is no need to have C follower.
> > C is perfect
> 
> Which C are you referring to here?  The original K&R, ANSI, or some
> other variant?  ANSI C is different enough from K&R C -- in strength
> of typing if nothing else -- that some would say ANSI C _is_ the
> "next language" following K&R C.


Chat about flavours of C, better on chat@ not questi...@.
( The daemons noise was enough old FAQ )

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/x92.html
"Before submitting a question
 You can (and should) do some things yourself before asking a
 question on one of the mailing lists:"

http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html#mailinglists
"Chat: Random topics (sometimes) related to FreeBSD."

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
Mail plain text;  Not HTML, quoted-printable & base 64 spam formats.
Avoid top posting, it cripples itemised cumulative responses.
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[perryh]

Wojciech Puchar  wrote:

> there will no no next language. there is no need to have C follower.
> C is perfect

Which C are you referring to here?  The original K&R, ANSI, or some
other variant?  ANSI C is different enough from K&R C -- in strength
of typing if nothing else -- that some would say ANSI C _is_ the
"next language" following K&R C.
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Ian Smith]

In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 337, Issue 1, Message: 19
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:29:10 -0700 Chad Perrin wrote:
 > On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:39:32PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:
 > > 
 > >About 2000, 2001 was when I shucked my "muuz" game/mind-machine 
 > >effort.  It was over 10K line of C-ish code that I rehacked into 
 > >C++.  Figured since C++ was "_the_ new language" that it was a 
 > >good move.  Then I realized how you could spend a lifetime
 > >learning C++ I backed off and kept it simple.

Deftly avoiding the whirlpool.  Delphi was the similar suck from Pascal.

 > Hardly new.  It hasn't been the Next Big Thing since the '80s.  Java was
 > the Next Big Thing in the '90s.  We don't exactly have a new Next Big
 > Thing for the '00s, from what I can see -- and maybe that's a good thing.
 >
 > Agile development is the Next Big Thing for development methodologies,
 > but that's a somewhat separate issue.

Whatever that means, I'll take your word for it :)

 > >Yeah, it's on amazon.com, but "my bible" {seriously!} is good
 > >enough.  Dog-earned and coffee-stained; but it's the same as the
 > >2nd Ed.  The 2nd is ANSI-ified, IIRC.
 > 
 > That's correct -- 2nd Ed is the ANSI C version of basically the same
 > text.

Hey, didn't know I had a rare '78 first ed; ANSI not even in the index. 
I confess to buying it secondhand in '94 from a likely sorry bloke, and 
wonder if anyone's published a diff (ono) to the 2nd ed?

But my most dog-eared, tabbed and note-stuffed reference is Kernighan & 
Plauger's Software Tools in Pascal ('81) - lovely if only for quality of 
the writing and typesetting.  Appropriate thread for a little heresy? :)

cheers, Ian
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Arthur Chance]

On 11/14/10 20:44, Gary Kline wrote:

TWo questions: didn't IBM create CPL? And doesn't BCPL
Stand for "British Computer Programming Language"?  (I did have
both editions of the C book by Brian and DEnnis; then loaned the
2nd edition and never got ti back.)  I think Dennis gives credit
to BCPL Somewhere.  Pretty sure those guys are all retired to
somewhere *warm and sunny* by now!


According to Wikipedia:

> The Combined Programming Language (CPL) was a computer programming
> language developed jointly between the Mathematical Laboratory at the
> University of Cambridge and the University of London Computer Unit
> during the 1960s hence CPL gained the nickname "Cambridge Plus London"

Martin Richards, who invented/first implemented BCPL is technically 
retired but still active here in Cambridge (the UK one):


http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/index.html

[Note the address of Cambridge Computer Lab :-)]

--
"Although the wombat is real and the dragon is not, few know what a
wombat looks like, but everyone knows what a dragon looks like."

-- Avram Davidson, _Adventures in Unhistory_
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Wojciech Puchar]

implemented at all -- but BCPL developed a following.  Someone
(at Bell Labs?) produced a derivative called B, from which a few
researchers at Murray Hill derived C.  Thus the question:  should
the next language in the series be named D (next alphabetically)
or P (next letter of BCPL)?
there will no no next language. there is no need to have C follower. C is 
perfect

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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Chad Perrin]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 09:54:42PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:
> 
> I'd say the "Next Big Thing" in the '00s was Python ... or was it XML?

Python hasn't been dominant enough.  *Maybe* XML -- but that might be a
bit of a stretch.  It might be a couple years before we can identify it.

Hm.  Maybe JavaScript . . . ?  You know, that AJAXy thing.


> 
> BTW, it's now the '10s.  ;-)

Yeah, but there obviously hasn't been a Next Big Thing programming
language for the '10s yet.  Give it time.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


pgp7rDO0QKypC.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 14 Nov 2010 at 16:29:10 PST Chad Perrin wrote:

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:39:32PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:


About 2000, 2001 was when I shucked my "muuz" game/mind-machine
effort.  It was over 10K line of C-ish code that I rehacked into
C++.  Figured since C++ was "_the_ new language" that it was a
good move.  Then I realized how you could spend a lifetime
learning C++ I backed off and kept it simple.


Hardly new.  It hasn't been the Next Big Thing since the '80s.  Java was
the Next Big Thing in the '90s.  We don't exactly have a new Next Big
Thing for the '00s, from what I can see -- and maybe that's a good


I'd say the "Next Big Thing" in the '00s was Python ... or was it XML?

BTW, it's now the '10s.  ;-)
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Chad Perrin]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:39:32PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:
> 
>   About 2000, 2001 was when I shucked my "muuz" game/mind-machine 
>   effort.  It was over 10K line of C-ish code that I rehacked into 
>   C++.  Figured since C++ was "_the_ new language" that it was a 
>   good move.  Then I realized how you could spend a lifetime
>   learning C++ I backed off and kept it simple.

Hardly new.  It hasn't been the Next Big Thing since the '80s.  Java was
the Next Big Thing in the '90s.  We don't exactly have a new Next Big
Thing for the '00s, from what I can see -- and maybe that's a good thing.

Agile development is the Next Big Thing for development methodologies,
but that's a somewhat separate issue.


> 
>   Yeah, it's on amazon.com, but "my bible" {seriously!} is good
>   enough.  Dog-earned and coffee-stained; but it's the same as the
>   2nd Ed.  The 2nd is ANSI-ified, IIRC.

That's correct -- 2nd Ed is the ANSI C version of basically the same
text.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Description: PGP signature

Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Gary Kline]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 03:37:15PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:02:49PM -0800, Chip Camden wrote:
> > Quoth Gary Kline on Sunday, 14 November 2010:
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
> > >   (in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
> > >   what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
> > >   thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
> > >   opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
> > >   about it.
> > > 
> > The inventor of C++ is Bjarne Stroustrop.  I had the chance opportunity
> > to sit down at a table with him and have a conversation prior to an SD
> > West conference several years ago.  He's a nice guy, with a great sense
> > of humor -- but even he admits "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
> > foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off."
> > http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bjarne_Stroustrup
> 
> There's always the theory that Bjarne Stroustrup actually meant C++ as a
> joke:
> 
> http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all
> 
> It's generally regarded as a hoax, and there is an actually published
> interview that corresponds with this time period in IEEE's Computer
> Magazine that reads quite differently from this.  Still . . . if this is
> real, it would certainly explain a lot.
> 


Hmmm.  I'll ck out the quote when I'm using evo.  I honestly
doesn't see C++ as any joke--or attempt to be.  What I can't 
grok is the supposed "re-useability."  Was/Isn't a big part of
C++ supposed to be that you could easily reuse part of proven,
flawless code?  I probably never got that far into learning the
language.  I have and still do edit, cut/paste, hammer and saw
away at my C examples to get at functions that are reusable.


> -- 
> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]



-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
   http://journey.thought.org
   For non-text MUA's
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Gary Kline]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:02:49PM -0800, Chip Camden wrote:
> Quoth Gary Kline on Sunday, 14 November 2010:
> > 
> > 
> > Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
> > (in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
> > what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
> > thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
> > opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
> > about it.
> > 
> The inventor of C++ is Bjarne Stroustrop.  I had the chance opportunity
> to sit down at a table with him and have a conversation prior to an SD
> West conference several years ago.  He's a nice guy, with a great sense
> of humor -- but even he admits "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
> foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off."
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bjarne_Stroustrup
> 

I'm sure I had my share of disasters with C++ hacking test code
, but OMG, the head banging was nothing compared to heavy C
coding in the early days.   The number of segv's brings back
evil memories:-)  That, and having to take a notebook and draw
out where you were [or _thought_ you were] pointing to.
--Things they can't teach very well in the classroom-- that sort
of stuff.

Great quote!


> > 
> -- 
> Sterling (Chip) Camden| sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F
> http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com| 
> http://chipsquips.com



-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
   http://journey.thought.org
   For non-text MUA's
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Chad Perrin]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:02:49PM -0800, Chip Camden wrote:
> Quoth Gary Kline on Sunday, 14 November 2010:
> > 
> > 
> > Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
> > (in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
> > what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
> > thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
> > opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
> > about it.
> > 
> The inventor of C++ is Bjarne Stroustrop.  I had the chance opportunity
> to sit down at a table with him and have a conversation prior to an SD
> West conference several years ago.  He's a nice guy, with a great sense
> of humor -- but even he admits "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
> foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off."
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bjarne_Stroustrup

There's always the theory that Bjarne Stroustrup actually meant C++ as a
joke:

http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all

It's generally regarded as a hoax, and there is an actually published
interview that corresponds with this time period in IEEE's Computer
Magazine that reads quite differently from this.  Still . . . if this is
real, it would certainly explain a lot.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Gary Kline]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 02:41:41PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 12:44:50PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:
> > 
> > I'd vote for "E" since that might have more positive
> > connotations that "D".  :-)  Skip "F" altogether.
> 
> That might be a good point.
> 
> Google has taught me that single-letter names for programming languages
> (or anything else, apparently) are not so good for the Internet age,
> however.


I won't argue the point! but how about "IEEE"?  I subscribed
to that for years and some people noted that spoken as a word,
"Ieee" was like the primal scream!  Hm maybe the EEE
language?!
> 
> 
> > 
> > Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
> > (in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
> > what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
> > thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
> > opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
> > about it.
> 
> Perhaps ironically, some called C++ "C With Classes" early on, as I
> recall.  Meanwhile, Objective-C ended up being what C++ initially claimed
> it would be (a strict superset of C that provided facilities for OOP),
> while C++ failed to live up to its own promises while expanding into all
> kinds of things that were not actually desired in those early days (like
> a politician once elected to office).  This is, of course, largely the
> perspective of an outsider, so take it for what it's worth.
> 

About 2000, 2001 was when I shucked my "muuz" game/mind-machine 
effort.  It was over 10K line of C-ish code that I rehacked into 
C++.  Figured since C++ was "_the_ new language" that it was a 
good move.  Then I realized how you could spend a lifetime
learning C++ I backed off and kept it simple.

> 
> > 
> > TWo questions: didn't IBM create CPL? And doesn't BCPL
> > Stand for "British Computer Programming Language"?  (I did have
> > both editions of the C book by Brian and DEnnis; then loaned the
> > 2nd edition and never got ti back.)  I think Dennis gives credit
> > to BCPL Somewhere.  Pretty sure those guys are all retired to
> > somewhere *warm and sunny* by now!
> 
> The second edition is still in stores all over the place.  It's the first
> edition that would be difficult to find these days, I think.  My father
> tells me he has a copy, though I've never seen it; I only have the second
> edition.


Yeah, it's on amazon.com, but "my bible" {seriously!} is good
enough.  Dog-earned and coffee-stained; but it's the same as the
2nd Ed.  The 2nd is ANSI-ified, IIRC.

gary
> 
> -- 
> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]



-- 
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Chip Camden]

Quoth Gary Kline on Sunday, 14 November 2010:
> 
> 
>   Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
>   (in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
>   what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
>   thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
>   opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
>   about it.
> 
The inventor of C++ is Bjarne Stroustrop.  I had the chance opportunity
to sit down at a table with him and have a conversation prior to an SD
West conference several years ago.  He's a nice guy, with a great sense
of humor -- but even he admits "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bjarne_Stroustrup

> 
-- 
Sterling (Chip) Camden| sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F
http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com| http://chipsquips.com


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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Chad Perrin]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 12:44:50PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:
> 
>   I'd vote for "E" since that might have more positive
>   connotations that "D".  :-)  Skip "F" altogether.

That might be a good point.

Google has taught me that single-letter names for programming languages
(or anything else, apparently) are not so good for the Internet age,
however.


> 
>   Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
>   (in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
>   what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
>   thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
>   opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
>   about it.

Perhaps ironically, some called C++ "C With Classes" early on, as I
recall.  Meanwhile, Objective-C ended up being what C++ initially claimed
it would be (a strict superset of C that provided facilities for OOP),
while C++ failed to live up to its own promises while expanding into all
kinds of things that were not actually desired in those early days (like
a politician once elected to office).  This is, of course, largely the
perspective of an outsider, so take it for what it's worth.


> 
>   TWo questions: didn't IBM create CPL? And doesn't BCPL
>   Stand for "British Computer Programming Language"?  (I did have
>   both editions of the C book by Brian and DEnnis; then loaned the
>   2nd edition and never got ti back.)  I think Dennis gives credit
>   to BCPL Somewhere.  Pretty sure those guys are all retired to
>   somewhere *warm and sunny* by now!

The second edition is still in stores all over the place.  It's the first
edition that would be difficult to find these days, I think.  My father
tells me he has a copy, though I've never seen it; I only have the second
edition.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Gary Kline]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 01:00:35AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> Chad Perrin  wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:32:04PM -0600, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> > > should the one-leter name for 'c++' be 'd' or 'p'?
> > > (nobody could decide/agree, which *IS* why it is 'c++'
> > > to this day)
> >
> > ... D is already another programming language ...
> 
> It wasn't back then :)
> 
> > I don't know what this P has to do with it.
> 
> You have revealed yourself as a newbie :)
> 
> In the beginning there was CPL, the "Combined Programming Language."
> It was large enough to be infeasible to implement using then-current
> technologies, so the "Bootstrap Combined Programming Language" (BCPL)
> was invented, with the intent that the first CPL compiler would be
> written in BCPL.
> 
> CPL never amounted to much -- I don't know whether it was ever
> implemented at all -- but BCPL developed a following.  Someone
> (at Bell Labs?) produced a derivative called B, from which a few
> researchers at Murray Hill derived C.  Thus the question:  should
> the next language in the series be named D (next alphabetically)
> or P (next letter of BCPL)?


I'd vote for "E" since that might have more positive
connotations that "D".  :-)  Skip "F" altogether.

Just about the whole Murray Hill gang stopped by Cray 
(in Chippewa Falls), late 80's, and I remember asking Dennis
what the deal was with "C++"; I remember him dodging the
thing.  Whoever-invented-C++ did a convoluted job, i s my
opinion.  It might be nice to add classes to C, but that's
about it.

TWo questions: didn't IBM create CPL? And doesn't BCPL
Stand for "British Computer Programming Language"?  (I did have
both editions of the C book by Brian and DEnnis; then loaned the
2nd edition and never got ti back.)  I think Dennis gives credit
to BCPL Somewhere.  Pretty sure those guys are all retired to
somewhere *warm and sunny* by now!

gary


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-- 
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   http://journey.thought.org
   For non-text MUA's
   http://theopenpress.com/index.php?a=print&code=00&id=88532
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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Chad Perrin]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 01:00:35AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> Chad Perrin  wrote:
> >
> > ... D is already another programming language ...
> 
> It wasn't back then :)

It is now, though, so it's a little late.  So sorry.


> 
> > I don't know what this P has to do with it.
> 
> You have revealed yourself as a newbie :)

No -- I've revealed myself as someone who doesn't care nearly as much
about C++ as about C.


> 
> In the beginning there was CPL, the "Combined Programming Language."
> It was large enough to be infeasible to implement using then-current
> technologies, so the "Bootstrap Combined Programming Language" (BCPL)
> was invented, with the intent that the first CPL compiler would be
> written in BCPL.
> 
> CPL never amounted to much -- I don't know whether it was ever
> implemented at all -- but BCPL developed a following.  Someone
> (at Bell Labs?) produced a derivative called B, from which a few
> researchers at Murray Hill derived C.  Thus the question:  should
> the next language in the series be named D (next alphabetically)
> or P (next letter of BCPL)?

. . . and there was a flamewar over it, blah blah blah, and finally it
was C++.  Okay.  Good historical reference.  Thanks.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Robert Bonomi]

> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Sun Nov 14 03:09:59 2010
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:00:35 -0800
> From: per...@pluto.rain.com
> To: per...@apotheon.com
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)
>
> Chad Perrin  wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:32:04PM -0600, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> > > should the one-leter name for 'c++' be 'd' or 'p'?
> > > (nobody could decide/agree, which *IS* why it is 'c++'
> > > to this day)
> >
> > ... D is already another programming language ...
>
> It wasn't back then :)
>
> > I don't know what this P has to do with it.
>
> You have revealed yourself as a newbie :)
>
> In the beginning there was CPL, the "Combined Programming Language."
> It was large enough to be infeasible to implement using then-current
> technologies, so the "Bootstrap Combined Programming Language" (BCPL)
> was invented, with the intent that the first CPL compiler would be
> written in BCPL.
>
> CPL never amounted to much -- I don't know whether it was ever
> implemented at all -- but BCPL developed a following.

Trivia:  BCPL was the _first_ programming language to use 'curly braces'
to group statements.  It also used '//' to indroduce a 'single-line comment'.

>Someone
> (at Bell Labs?) 

Ken Thompson, 1969

> produced a derivative called B, from which a few
> researchers at Murray Hill derived C.

Mostly one.  Dennis Ritchie, circa 1972.  Brian Kernighan contributed, 
and Ken stuck his oar in occasionally.

>Thus the question:  should
> the next language in the series be named D (next alphabetically)
> or P (next letter of BCPL)?


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Re: History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[Sergio de Almeida Lenzi]

> 
> CPL never amounted to much -- I don't know whether it was ever
> implemented at all -- but BCPL developed a following.  Someone
> (at Bell Labs?) produced a derivative called B, from which a few
> researchers at Murray Hill derived C.  Thus the question:  should
> the next language in the series be named D (next alphabetically)
> or P (next letter of BCPL)?

Wow!!!  I had forgotten... I have done some projects using BCPL... in a
mainframe (S370) running
MVS in the 70's...
it was lightning fast. we had made a kind of TSO (time sharing option)
that runs on top
of VTAM, to bring "online compile and run" cobol programs to the
desktop...   
while a batch work responds  in 3 hours, a TSO (written in bcpl)
responds in seconds...

Thanks for remember the "good old days" ...
it is still active!!! => http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/BCPL.html


Sergio
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History of C (Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?)

[perryh]

Chad Perrin  wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:32:04PM -0600, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> > should the one-leter name for 'c++' be 'd' or 'p'?
> > (nobody could decide/agree, which *IS* why it is 'c++'
> > to this day)
>
> ... D is already another programming language ...

It wasn't back then :)

> I don't know what this P has to do with it.

You have revealed yourself as a newbie :)

In the beginning there was CPL, the "Combined Programming Language."
It was large enough to be infeasible to implement using then-current
technologies, so the "Bootstrap Combined Programming Language" (BCPL)
was invented, with the intent that the first CPL compiler would be
written in BCPL.

CPL never amounted to much -- I don't know whether it was ever
implemented at all -- but BCPL developed a following.  Someone
(at Bell Labs?) produced a derivative called B, from which a few
researchers at Murray Hill derived C.  Thus the question:  should
the next language in the series be named D (next alphabetically)
or P (next letter of BCPL)?
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:32:04PM -0600, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> 
> should the one-leter name for 'c++' be 'd' or 'p'?
> (nobody could decide/agree, which *IS* why it is 'c++' to this day)

Why would we need a one-letter name?

C++ is also known as CPP.  D is already another programming language, so
we can't really use that for C++.  I don't know what this P has to do
with it.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Robert Bonomi]

> From: mer...@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:47:40 -0800
> Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> >>>>> "Charlie" == Charlie Kester  writes:
>
> Charlie> OK, I'll play:
>
> Charlie> Gnome vs KDE
> Charlie> Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
> Charlie> GPL vs BSDL
> Charlie> C vs any other programming language
>
> Perl vs Readability
>
<*SNORt*>  That's what APL is for -- to make Perl look readable

somebody once claimed that the -only- way to obfuscate an APL 
program -- more than it _naturally_ was, that is -- was to write
It as TECO source.




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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Robert Bonomi]

> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Fri Nov 12 18:34:27 2010
> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:22:26 -0800
> From: Charlie Kester 
> To: "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" 
> Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 16:05:33 PST Gary Gatten wrote:
> >Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:
> >
> >M$ vs Novell
> >"Unix" vs "Linux"
> >Mainframe vs "PC"
> >DAS vs SAN
> >Top-posting vs Bottom posting
> >Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada
>
> OK, I'll play:
>
> Gnome vs KDE
> Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
> GPL vs BSDL
> C vs any other programming language

should the one-leter name for 'c++' be 'd' or 'p'?
(nobody could decide/agree, which *IS* why it is 'c++' to this day)

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Svein Skogen (Listmail account)]

On 13.11.2010 21:29, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:18:03 +0100
>> From: Polytropon 
>> Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>>
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:57:46 -0800, Charlie Kester  
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:
>>>> Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?
>>>
>>> Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
>>> dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.
>>
>> Why "vs"? It's "and". So let's have the "vs" vs "and" debate.
>> And as we are already on-topic, let's discuss which logical
>> operator is the best, maybe we find an alternative to "vs"
>> or "and"... or... yes, what about "or"? :-)
> 
>   "or?"   NOT!! 

XOR

//Svein

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+---+---
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Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Robert Bonomi]

> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:18:03 +0100
> From: Polytropon 
> Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:57:46 -0800, Charlie Kester  
> wrote:
> > On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:
> > >Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?
> > 
> > Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
> > dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.
>
> Why "vs"? It's "and". So let's have the "vs" vs "and" debate.
> And as we are already on-topic, let's discuss which logical
> operator is the best, maybe we find an alternative to "vs"
> or "and"... or... yes, what about "or"? :-)

  "or?"   NOT!! 

-- 
For the life of me, I cant think of the movie that -that- catchprase is
from. (and Google is _no_ help on a search where capitilzation and/or 
punctuation matters)  was it "Bill & Teds Excellent Adventure"?

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 05:36:13PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Hello Liontaur,
> 
> Am 2010-11-12 23:55:22, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> > I was just thinking about how much better vi is compared to emacs ;)
> 
> Thats normaly, because emacs is an Operating System which lakes an editor

s/lakes/lacks/

That's not actually true, you know.  Emacs has a passable editor called
Viper Mode.  It's not ideal, but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 05:35:13PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Hello Charlie Kester,
> 
> Am 2010-11-12 16:22:26, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> > On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 16:05:33 PST Gary Gatten wrote:
> > >Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:
> > >
> > >M$ vs Novell
> > >"Unix" vs "Linux"
> > >Mainframe vs "PC"
> > >DAS vs SAN
> > >Top-posting vs Bottom posting
> > >Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada
> > 
> > OK, I'll play:
> > 
> > Gnome vs KDE
> > Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
> > GPL vs BSDL
> > C vs any other programming language
> 
> Debian vs. FreeBSD.

I'm shocked -- SHOCKED! -- that there still has not been any mention of
vi vs. emacs in this list.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 12:36:29PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:08:51PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > 
> > Did you know...
> > If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> > but what's worse is when you play it forward
> 
> I like this one - though you could update if from W 2000 to a more
> current one.

I vote Vista.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Robert Huff]

Bruce Cran writes:

>  The NTDEV list has another way of dealing with these issues: a
>  thread can get locked if it strays off-topic or becomes otherwise
>  useless, preventing further follow-ups.

That would require a level of active moderation I don't
remember seeing here.


Robert Huff

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[bdsfbsd]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:37:48 -0500, Jerry McAllister   
wrote:


On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 04:08:00PM +0100, Svein Skogen (Listmail  
account) wrote:


Can we add this once-a-month question about Beastie to either the FAQ or
the "resources for newbies" on the website?


Now that is a good idea.

jerry



And when someone asks this question, somebody refer them to said FAQ and  
THAT'S IT, instead of this huge list of people saying "oh no, not this  
again", debates on religion, on whether or not the OP is a troll, and some  
outright insulting and rude responses. Please, everyone, the next time  
somebody asks this question, refer to the FAQ (which needs amended,)  
respond off-list, or not at all.


Brian
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Bruce Cran]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 13:01:22 -0500
Jerry  wrote:

> I give Wietse a lot of credit for the way he runs his Postfix forum.
> Continuing a post after its usefulness has waned, or asking
> unrelated questions, etc. can and does get you banished from the
> group. Maybe it is time to get a moderator with a set for this forum.

The NTDEV list has another way of dealing with these issues: a thread
can get locked if it strays off-topic or becomes otherwise useless,
preventing further follow-ups.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:37:48 -0500
Jerry McAllister  articulated:

> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 04:08:00PM +0100, Svein Skogen (Listmail
> account) wrote:
> 
> > >> i guess  it is high time this list  bans the word devil in
> > >> subject ;-) 
> > 
> > Can we add this once-a-month question about Beastie to either the
> > FAQ or the "resources for newbies" on the website?  
> 
> Now that is a good idea.

That would be a waste of time. You would be working under the totally
unproven assumption that it would actually be read or adhered to.

Now, if this forum were open only to subscribers and when they
subscribed this info was presented in the "welcome" message and if they
were forewarned that even thinking about asking this question of the
forum would result in their banishment from the forum, then perhaps
you might have a working solution.

I give Wietse a lot of credit for the way he runs his Postfix forum.
Continuing a post after its usefulness has waned, or asking
unrelated questions, etc. can and does get you banished from the group.
Maybe it is time to get a moderator with a set for this forum.

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry McAllister]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 04:08:00PM +0100, Svein Skogen (Listmail account) wrote:

> >> i guess  it is high time this list  bans the word devil in subject ;-)
> >>
> 
> Can we add this once-a-month question about Beastie to either the FAQ or
> the "resources for newbies" on the website?

Now that is a good idea.

jerry

> 
> //Svein
> 
> -- 
> +---+---
>   /"\   |Svein Skogen   | sv...@d80.iso100.no
>   \ /   |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key:  0xE5E76831
>X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no
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> +---+---
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> +---+---
> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> 
>  Picture Gallery:
>   https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/
> 
> 


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry McAllister]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:08:51PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:

> 
> Did you know...
> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> but what's worse is when you play it forward
>   ...it installs Windows 2000

I like this one - though you could update if from W 2000 to a more
current one.

jerry


> 
>-- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org
> 
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Liontaur,

Am 2010-11-12 23:55:22, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> I was just thinking about how much better vi is compared to emacs ;)

Thats normaly, because emacs is an Operating System which lakes an editor

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

-- 
# Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##
   Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

itsyst...@tdnet France EURL   itsyst...@tdnet UG (limited liability)
Owner Michelle KonzackOwner Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
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Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix

  
 

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ICQ#328449886

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Charlie Kester,

Am 2010-11-12 16:22:26, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 16:05:33 PST Gary Gatten wrote:
> >Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:
> >
> >M$ vs Novell
> >"Unix" vs "Linux"
> >Mainframe vs "PC"
> >DAS vs SAN
> >Top-posting vs Bottom posting
> >Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada
> 
> OK, I'll play:
> 
> Gnome vs KDE
> Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
> GPL vs BSDL
> C vs any other programming language

Debian vs. FreeBSD.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

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itsyst...@tdnet France EURL   itsyst...@tdnet UG (limited liability)
Owner Michelle KonzackOwner Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstraße 17
67100 Strasbourg/France   77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix

  
 

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Tom Worster]

On 11/12/10 6:44 PM, "Chris Brennan"  wrote:

>I think it's safe to say that either a) Mr. Silveira has unsubscribed from
>the list or b) learned to keep his mouth shut and scampered off into the
>dark to learn the proper netiquette of this list. Must we continue to beat
>this already dead horse?

in his most recent email to me, José Silveira signed off with: "Finally, I
am very happy to not to be part of freeBSD community."

i admit i'm happy about that too.


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Tom Worster]

On 11/12/10 7:18 PM, "Polytropon"  wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:57:46 -0800, Charlie Kester
> wrote:
>>On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:
>>>Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?
>>Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
>>dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.
>
>Why "vs"? It's "and". So let's have the "vs" vs "and" debate.

isn't that where Derrida wrote the book?


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Svein Skogen (Listmail account)]

On 13.11.2010 15:59, Mario Lobo wrote:
> On Friday 12 November 2010 23:27:42 Mubeesh ali wrote:
>> i guess  it is high time this list  bans the word devil in subject ;-)
>>
> 
> Let's hack the term and use lucifer instead!

Can we add this once-a-month question about Beastie to either the FAQ or
the "resources for newbies" on the website?

//Svein

-- 
+---+---
  /"\   |Svein Skogen   | sv...@d80.iso100.no
  \ /   |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key:  0xE5E76831
   X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no
  / \   |Norway | PGP Key:  0xCE96CE13
|   | sv...@stillbilde.net
 ascii  |   | PGP Key:  0x58CD33B6
 ribbon |System Admin   | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net
Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key:  0x22D494A4
+---+---
|msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575
|sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE
+---+---
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

 Picture Gallery:
  https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/




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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Justin V.]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Mario Lobo wrote:


On Friday 12 November 2010 23:27:42 Mubeesh ali wrote:

i guess  it is high time this list  bans the word devil in subject ;-)



Let's hack the term and use lucifer instead!

--
Mario Lobo
http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br
FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winfoes FREE)
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Its Beelzebub, the daemon.
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Mario Lobo]

On Friday 12 November 2010 23:27:42 Mubeesh ali wrote:
> i guess  it is high time this list  bans the word devil in subject ;-)
> 

Let's hack the term and use lucifer instead!

-- 
Mario Lobo
http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br
FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winfoes FREE)
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[David DEMELIER]

2010/11/12 José Silveira :
> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!
>
> José Silveira
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>

I never thought this kind of mail could spawn 70 answers in only two
days. It takes useless storage for nothing. You are wasting your time
answering this imho :-).

-- 
Demelier David
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:06:55 -0500
Chris Brennan  articulated:

> Did you know...
> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> but what's worse is when you play it forward
> 
>   ...it installs Windows 2000
>-- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org
> 
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> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
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I am now creating a kill filter for this poster. If he isn't smart
enough to figure out how to properly enter his factually incorrect,
obsolete and well worn codicil to every message correctly; i.e, after
the "sig-delimiter", then I have not the time not inclination to read
his dribble.

Attention Chris Brennan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block

http://email.about.com/od/emailsignaturenetiquette/qt/Use_the_Standard_Email_Signature_Delimiter.htm

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Chad Perrin  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 01:06:55AM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Chad Perrin 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > What would you have me do -- beat a live horse?  I'm not inclined to
> > > subject a living creature to such cruelty.
> >
> > Is beating a dead horse no more cruel?
>
> Do dead horses have feelings?
>
> --
> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
>

I would imagine not, but the spirit of the dead horse might. And it would
suck if that spirit were to come back as an ugly 8ft fly-thing with a really
bad attitude and a grudge. Poor Aurthur...Just can't catch a break!

--
Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000

   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 2:17 AM, Bruce Cran  wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:08:02 -0500
> Chris Brennan  wrote:
>
> > It's part of my signature it's not like I am spamming *just* my
> > sig to the list.
> >
> > Did you know...
> > If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> >
> > but what's worse is when you play it forward
> >   ...it installs Windows 2000
> >-- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org
> > 
> >
>
> The problem is that it's part of the main block of text and as such is
> rather offputting. If you want it to be your signature it should be
> separated from the main block of text somehow - preferably by the
> signature separator ("-- " followed by a newline).
>
> --
> Bruce Cran
>


Ya know, I have it there, but for some reason, GMail/Google Apps Keeps
omitting it, I've resorted to manually putting it in when I move my sig from
the the top of the message body.

--
Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000

   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:

>
> On Nov 13, 2010, at 1:08 AM, Chris Brennan wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Bruce Cran  wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:08:51 -0500
> >> Chris Brennan  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Did you know...
> >>> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> >>> but what's worse is when you play it forward
> >>>  ...it installs Windows 2000
> >>
> >> Yes, I think we know that by now.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bruce Cran
> >>
> >
> > It's part of my signature it's not like I am spamming *just* my sig
> to
> > the list.
>
> And my friends all got a kick out of it when I shared it. Not all are
> FreeBSD fans but all hate Windows 2K the same :)



I'm glad it amused them, as that is it's purpose.


--
Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000

   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 01:06:55AM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Chad Perrin  wrote:
> >
> > What would you have me do -- beat a live horse?  I'm not inclined to
> > subject a living creature to such cruelty.
> 
> Is beating a dead horse no more cruel?

Do dead horses have feelings?

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Liontaur]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Gary Gatten  wrote:

> Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:
>
> M$ vs Novell
> "Unix" vs "Linux"
> Mainframe vs "PC"
> DAS vs SAN
> Top-posting vs Bottom posting
> Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada



I was just thinking about how much better vi is compared to emacs ;)

Mark
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Bruce Cran]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 01:08:02 -0500
Chris Brennan  wrote:

> It's part of my signature it's not like I am spamming *just* my
> sig to the list.
> 
> Did you know...
> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> 
> but what's worse is when you play it forward
>   ...it installs Windows 2000
>-- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org
> 
> 

The problem is that it's part of the main block of text and as such is
rather offputting. If you want it to be your signature it should be
separated from the main block of text somehow - preferably by the
signature separator ("-- " followed by a newline).

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Ryan Coleman]

On Nov 13, 2010, at 1:08 AM, Chris Brennan wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Bruce Cran  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:08:51 -0500
>> Chris Brennan  wrote:
>> 
>>> Did you know...
>>> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
>>> but what's worse is when you play it forward
>>>  ...it installs Windows 2000
>> 
>> Yes, I think we know that by now.
>> 
>> --
>> Bruce Cran
>> 
> 
> It's part of my signature it's not like I am spamming *just* my sig to
> the list.

And my friends all got a kick out of it when I shared it. Not all are FreeBSD 
fans but all hate Windows 2K the same 
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Bruce Cran  wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:08:51 -0500
> Chris Brennan  wrote:
>
> > Did you know...
> > If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> > but what's worse is when you play it forward
> >   ...it installs Windows 2000
>
> Yes, I think we know that by now.
>
> --
> Bruce Cran
>

It's part of my signature it's not like I am spamming *just* my sig to
the list.

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,

but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000
   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Chad Perrin  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 06:44:01PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> >
> > I think it's safe to say that either a) Mr. Silveira has unsubscribed
> from
> > the list or b) learned to keep his mouth shut and scampered off into the
> > dark to learn the proper netiquette of this list. Must we continue to
> beat
> > this already dead horse?
>
> What would you have me do -- beat a live horse?  I'm not inclined to
> subject a living creature to such cruelty.
>
> --
> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
>


Is beating a dead horse no more cruel?

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward

  ...it installs Windows 2000
   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Mubeesh ali]

i guess  it is high time this list  bans the word devil in subject ;-)

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Bruce Cran  wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:08:51 -0500
> Chris Brennan  wrote:
>
>> Did you know...
>> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
>> but what's worse is when you play it forward
>>                                       ...it installs Windows 2000
>
> Yes, I think we know that by now.
>
> --
> Bruce Cran
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-- 
Best  Regards,

Mubeesh Ali.V.M
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Bruce Cran]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:08:51 -0500
Chris Brennan  wrote:

> Did you know...
> If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
> but what's worse is when you play it forward
>   ...it installs Windows 2000

Yes, I think we know that by now.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 06:44:01PM -0500, Chris Brennan wrote:
> 
> I think it's safe to say that either a) Mr. Silveira has unsubscribed from
> the list or b) learned to keep his mouth shut and scampered off into the
> dark to learn the proper netiquette of this list. Must we continue to beat
> this already dead horse?

What would you have me do -- beat a live horse?  I'm not inclined to
subject a living creature to such cruelty.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 16:47:40 PST Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

"Charlie" == Charlie Kester  writes:


Charlie> OK, I'll play:

Charlie> Gnome vs KDE
Charlie> Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
Charlie> GPL vs BSDL
Charlie> C vs any other programming language

Perl vs Readability


Coming from you, Randal, that's delicious!  Thanks for the laugh.
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:47:40 -0800, mer...@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) 
wrote:
> > "Charlie" == Charlie Kester  writes:
> 
> Charlie> OK, I'll play:
> 
> Charlie> Gnome vs KDE
> Charlie> Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
> Charlie> GPL vs BSDL
> Charlie> C vs any other programming language
> 
> Perl vs Readability
> 
> :-)

Man vs machine?

:-)



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Charlie" == Charlie Kester  writes:

Charlie> OK, I'll play:

Charlie> Gnome vs KDE
Charlie> Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
Charlie> GPL vs BSDL
Charlie> C vs any other programming language

Perl vs Readability

:-)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
 http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Gary Gatten]

Dude, MicroFocus COBOL is WAY better than any flavor of "C"!  C is an 
indication of average, 70%!  Why didn't they call it "A"?

And yes, I'm joking about MicroFC vs C.  I'm not a developer so afaik assembly 
is the best!  All I do know is nothing is worse than Java. Not sure where that 
went wrong, but I HATE all the dependancy constraints Java apps have.  At one 
point I had to run 4 version of jave in two different browsersd to use the apps 
I needed.  BS!

- Original Message -
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
To: 'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org' 
Sent: Fri Nov 12 18:22:26 2010
Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 16:05:33 PST Gary Gatten wrote:
>Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:
>
>M$ vs Novell
>"Unix" vs "Linux"
>Mainframe vs "PC"
>DAS vs SAN
>Top-posting vs Bottom posting
>Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada

OK, I'll play:

Gnome vs KDE
Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
GPL vs BSDL
C vs any other programming language
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 16:05:33 PST Gary Gatten wrote:

Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:

M$ vs Novell
"Unix" vs "Linux"
Mainframe vs "PC"
DAS vs SAN
Top-posting vs Bottom posting
Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada


OK, I'll play:

Gnome vs KDE
Ports vs Packages (vs PBI's)
GPL vs BSDL
C vs any other programming language
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:57:46 -0800, Charlie Kester  
wrote:
> On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:
> >Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?
> 
> Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
> dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.

Why "vs"? It's "and". So let's have the "vs" vs "and" debate.
And as we are already on-topic, let's discuss which logical
operator is the best, maybe we find an alternative to "vs"
or "and"... or... yes, what about "or"? :-)


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Gary Gatten]

Bottom posting is a HUGE PITA on mobile devices, which I use a LOT. But, if top 
posting is the rule and the accepted way, then I GUESS I'll make more effort to 
avoid top posting. Maybe a new years resolution?


From: Chris Brennan 
To: Gary Gatten
Cc: corky1...@comcast.net ; 
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org 
Sent: Fri Nov 12 18:10:55 2010
Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Gary Gatten 
mailto:ggat...@waddell.com>> wrote:
Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:

M$ vs Novell
"Unix" vs "Linux"
Mainframe vs "PC"
DAS vs SAN
Top-posting vs Bottom posting
Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada


How ironic, I was just having this debate w/ a friend of mine off-list. 
(top-posting vs. bottom-posting that is).

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,


but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000
   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at 
freebsd.org<http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>









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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Gary Gatten  wrote:

> Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:
>
> M$ vs Novell
> "Unix" vs "Linux"
> Mainframe vs "PC"
> DAS vs SAN
> Top-posting vs Bottom posting
> Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada
>
>
How ironic, I was just having this debate w/ a friend of mine off-list.
(top-posting vs. bottom-posting that is).

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,

but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000
   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Charlie Kester wrote:

> On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:
>
>> Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?
>>
>
> Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
> dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.
>
>
But that has turned into quite an interesting philosophical debate. No one
is flamming anyone and everyone is contributing a little here and there to
the CLU(TUI)/GUI debate.

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
  ...it installs Windows 2000

   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Gary Gatten]

Let's start a thread listing dead horses to beat:

M$ vs Novell
"Unix" vs "Linux"
Mainframe vs "PC"
DAS vs SAN
Top-posting vs Bottom posting
Blah blah blah vs Yada yada yada

- Original Message -
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org 
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org 
Sent: Fri Nov 12 17:57:46 2010
Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:
>Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?

Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 12 Nov 2010 at 15:44:01 PST Chris Brennan wrote:

Must we continue to beat this already dead horse?


Apparently the answer is yes, when we're not beating the equally
dead horse of the CLI vs GUI debate.

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chris Brennan]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Chad Perrin  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 05:38:10PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> >
> > You would have starved before now if other people had your attitude.
>
> Not at all.
>
> It does indeed involve indulging others to do what you described.  There
> is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but "indulgent" is exactly what
> it is.
>
> While it may be "intelligent" to do so as well (depending on
> circumstances and goals), it is not *the* intelligent thing to do, which
> implies that anything else is necessarily "unintelligent".  May other
> approaches could be intelligent as well, including some non-indulgent
> approaches.
>
> This "attitude" does not preclude being indulgent, and I'm sure that any
> of us who have that "attitude" would indulge our children (if we have
> them) by feeding them in their youth to ensure they do not starve.  One
> would hope, however, that we would teach those children to be a bit more
> self-sufficient before they reach the age of majority, however -- and
> that this self-sufficiency might suggest to them that a first approach to
> figuring out how to find out why a particular OS uses a given logo might
> be to check Wikipedia or search Google, or even to check the mailing list
> archives, before making accusatory, holier-than-thou demands of the
> community in the mailing list.
>
> The entire approach of the OP's demands was offensive and showed a
> distinct attitude of unwarranted entitlement.  It should be no wonder
> that people did not respond positively, especially given that it happens
> probably about twice a year.
>
> --
> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
>

I think it's safe to say that either a) Mr. Silveira has unsubscribed from
the list or b) learned to keep his mouth shut and scampered off into the
dark to learn the proper netiquette of this list. Must we continue to beat
this already dead horse?

Did you know...
If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages,
but what's worse is when you play it forward
 ...it installs Windows 2000

   -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 05:38:10PM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote:
> 
> You would have starved before now if other people had your attitude.

Not at all.

It does indeed involve indulging others to do what you described.  There
is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but "indulgent" is exactly what
it is.

While it may be "intelligent" to do so as well (depending on
circumstances and goals), it is not *the* intelligent thing to do, which
implies that anything else is necessarily "unintelligent".  May other
approaches could be intelligent as well, including some non-indulgent
approaches.

This "attitude" does not preclude being indulgent, and I'm sure that any
of us who have that "attitude" would indulge our children (if we have
them) by feeding them in their youth to ensure they do not starve.  One
would hope, however, that we would teach those children to be a bit more
self-sufficient before they reach the age of majority, however -- and
that this self-sufficiency might suggest to them that a first approach to
figuring out how to find out why a particular OS uses a given logo might
be to check Wikipedia or search Google, or even to check the mailing list
archives, before making accusatory, holier-than-thou demands of the
community in the mailing list.

The entire approach of the OP's demands was offensive and showed a
distinct attitude of unwarranted entitlement.  It should be no wonder
that people did not respond positively, especially given that it happens
probably about twice a year.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


pgpVenEKVf4qY.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

José Silveira  writes:

> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!

Well, i don't think devil is bad thing. What do you think of?

Sincerely,

-- 
소여물 황병희(黃炳熙) | .. 출항 15분전..

$GR: projects/mp3/the-godfather,v 1.39 2008/08/10 15:35:10 bh Exp $


pgpLl93fxvnqo.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:43:23 -0500
Alejandro Imass  articulated:

> And in almost all these places there are links to the netiquette,
> recommendations on how to search before you post and tons of
> information on how to correctly interact with these mailing lists.

Which are virtually never used. Hell, virgins get more action than some
of those links.

Les excuses sont comme des abrutis, tout le monde en avait un.

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Alejandro Imass]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Jerry McAllister  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 05:15:37PM -0500, Tom Worster wrote:
>
>> On 11/12/10 2:29 PM, "Jerry McAllister"  wrote:
>>
[...]

> You expect a newbie to know it all.
> That is inconsiderate and lazy.
> You started somewhere, so does everyone else.
>

True. But when you join an existing community you _should_ be just a
bit more prudent don't you think?
Furthermore, I think we all have screwed up more than once and have
had our good share of rudeness, and have dealt with it.
The bad thing IMO is to continue to attack like the OP did after
realizing his comment was not very welcome.

>
>
>>
>>
>> >The intelligent thing is to give a reasonable answer and point the person
>> >to some web pages where they can become informed and then ignore it.
>>
>> I would describe that as the indulgent thing, not the intelligent thing.
>>
>
> You would have starved before now if other people had your attitude.
>

I can't make out what you are trying to say here, but Tom's attitude
is in fact the correct one. Is the well-accepted way of doing things
in the hacker world, and very true, it's not for everyone.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Alex

> jerry
>
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Alejandro Imass]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Tom Worster  wrote:
> On 11/12/10 2:29 PM, "Jerry McAllister"  wrote:
>
>>Lots of people see FreeBSD and the web site and the mascott, etc for
>>the first time probably each day.    Some of them will have the same
>>mistaken idea since the misunderstanding of it is implanted in people's
>>heads from an early age.    Although you may get tired of hearing that
>>same old argument again and again, I do, it does not automatically make a
>>person a troll if they ask the question.
>
> Hmm.
>
> It is inconsiderate and lazy to ask someone else to answer a question
> without making any effort to answer it yourself first. The misdeed is
> multiplied when the culprit asks hundreds of people in a discussion group
> such as this. That's why it is often considered a violation of etiquette.
> The fact that lmgtfy.com and 'RTFM' are both well know suggests that this
> is not a fringe opinion.
>
>
>>The intelligent thing is to give a reasonable answer and point the person
>>to some web pages where they can become informed and then ignore it.
>
> I would describe that as the indulgent thing, not the intelligent thing.
>
>

Thanks Tom, I was beginning to think no one else cared about such
netiquette, and I just opted to let it go. Nevertheless, now that you
brought this up, I would like to point a couple of more things out to
Jerry:

The _intelligent_ thing to do is to actually read before blabbering
here about some religious crap.

When the OP signed up to this list he must have read this:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL

Where things like the following are very clearly stated:

When in doubt about what list to post a question to, see How to get
best results from the FreeBSD-questions mailing list.
Which points to this:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/

Before posting to any list, please learn about how to best use the
mailing lists, such as how to help avoid frequently-repeated
discussions, by reading the Mailing List Frequently Asked Questions
(FAQ) document.
Which points to this:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/mailing-list-faq/

And in almost all these places there are links to the netiquette,
recommendations on how to search before you post and tons of
information on how to correctly interact with these mailing lists.

Ignorantia legis neminem excusat

Cheers,
Alex
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry McAllister]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 05:15:37PM -0500, Tom Worster wrote:

> On 11/12/10 2:29 PM, "Jerry McAllister"  wrote:
> 
> >Lots of people see FreeBSD and the web site and the mascott, etc for
> >the first time probably each day.Some of them will have the same
> >mistaken idea since the misunderstanding of it is implanted in people's
> >heads from an early age.Although you may get tired of hearing that
> >same old argument again and again, I do, it does not automatically make a
> >person a troll if they ask the question.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> It is inconsiderate and lazy to ask someone else to answer a question
> without making any effort to answer it yourself first. The misdeed is
> multiplied when the culprit asks hundreds of people in a discussion group
> such as this. That's why it is often considered a violation of etiquette.
> The fact that lmgtfy.com and 'RTFM' are both well know suggests that this
> is not a fringe opinion.

You expect a newbie to know it all.   
That is inconsiderate and lazy.
You started somewhere, so does everyone else.



> 
> 
> >The intelligent thing is to give a reasonable answer and point the person
> >to some web pages where they can become informed and then ignore it.
> 
> I would describe that as the indulgent thing, not the intelligent thing.
> 

You would have starved before now if other people had your attitude.

jerry   
  
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Tom Worster]

On 11/12/10 2:29 PM, "Jerry McAllister"  wrote:

>Lots of people see FreeBSD and the web site and the mascott, etc for
>the first time probably each day.Some of them will have the same
>mistaken idea since the misunderstanding of it is implanted in people's
>heads from an early age.Although you may get tired of hearing that
>same old argument again and again, I do, it does not automatically make a
>person a troll if they ask the question.

Hmm.

It is inconsiderate and lazy to ask someone else to answer a question
without making any effort to answer it yourself first. The misdeed is
multiplied when the culprit asks hundreds of people in a discussion group
such as this. That's why it is often considered a violation of etiquette.
The fact that lmgtfy.com and 'RTFM' are both well know suggests that this
is not a fringe opinion.


>The intelligent thing is to give a reasonable answer and point the person
>to some web pages where they can become informed and then ignore it.

I would describe that as the indulgent thing, not the intelligent thing.


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry McAllister]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 07:26:17PM -0600, Neal Hogan wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Gary Gatten  wrote:
> > PLEASE let's not rehash this again!!!
> >
> 
> I'm only sending the link to the haloed (sp?) daemon now because I
> wish I had last time but f'd it up.
> I'm done now . . . I just thought that those who are offended by
> "evil" daemons would appreciate the "holy" ones.

> > (sorry) http://www.openbsd.org/art/newhead.jpg

I like this one.   
It continues the tongue firmly in the cheek sense of the whole BSDie thing.
Thanks for posting it.

jerry


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Jerry McAllister]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 09:36:29PM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > From: José Silveira 
> > Date: 2010/11/11
> > Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
> > To: Neal Hogan 
> >
> >
> > What an absurd! A guy makes a question and an stupid like you send me
> > this crap! I hope freebsd explodes!
> >
> 
> First, please don't top-post.
> Second, stop feeding the trolls. We souldn't be falling for this crap
> once again.
> Third, if you don't like FreeBSD and want it to explode, please just leave.

Lots of people see FreeBSD and the web site and the mascott, etc for
the first time probably each day.Some of them will have the same
mistaken idea since the misunderstanding of it is implanted in people's
heads from an early age.Although you may get tired of hearing that
same old argument again and again, I do, it does not automatically make a 
person a troll if they ask the question.


The intelligent thing is to give a reasonable answer and point the person
to some web pages where they can become informed and then ignore it.
If they make useful use of the information, they are not a troll, just
someone needing information.   If they want to add tricky new twists
to keep the thing going, then they probably are a troll and ignoring
additional responses becomes even more important.

So, if you want other prople to use their intelligence, then practice
using yours.

jerry


> 
> 
> > 2010/11/12 Neal Hogan 
> >>
> >> 2010/11/11 Neal Hogan :
> >> > 2010/11/11 José Silveira :
> >> >> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
> >> >>
> >> >> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run 
> >> >> away!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Is this better?
> >> >
> >>
> >> (sorry) http://www.openbsd.org/art/newhead.jpg
> > ___
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> >
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chip Camden]

Quoth Dave Robison on Thursday, 11 November 2010:
> On 11/11/10 15:39, José Silveira wrote:
> >Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
> >
> >For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!
> >
> >José Silveira
> >___
> >freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> >To unsubscribe, send any mail to 
> >"freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> >
> 
> And those are just a couple of the benefits!
> 

Winner of the Award for Best Laugh of the Morning.

-- 
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Alejandro Imass]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> He was forwarding and José top-posted on a private response.
>
> And I will top-post til the day I die.
>
> :)
>

I'm sorry Neal my bad, I wasn't in a joke mood and didn't realize the fwd.
It's just that this devil religious crap really got to me this time.

Cheers,
Alex

> On Nov 11, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Neal Hogan  wrote:
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: José Silveira 
>>> Date: 2010/11/11
>>> Subject: Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>>> To: Neal Hogan 
>>>
>>>
>>> What an absurd! A guy makes a question and an stupid like you send me
>>> this crap! I hope freebsd explodes!
>>>
>>
>> First, please don't top-post.
>> Second, stop feeding the trolls. We souldn't be falling for this crap
>> once again.
>> Third, if you don't like FreeBSD and want it to explode, please just leave.
>>
>>
>>> 2010/11/12 Neal Hogan 
>>>>
>>>> 2010/11/11 Neal Hogan :
>>>>> 2010/11/11 José Silveira :
>>>>>> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run 
>>>>>> away!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this better?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (sorry) http://www.openbsd.org/art/newhead.jpg
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>
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Matthew Seaman]

On 12/11/2010 09:38, Ross Cameron wrote:
> 2010/11/12 José Silveira 
> 
>> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>>
>> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!
> 
> 
> Because we don't want narrow minded, religious bigots clogging up the
> mailing lists like this one.

Didn't you know?  It's an international conspiracy between (inter alia)
The FreeBSD Project, Manchester United Football Club and the Parachute
Regiment display team.

Cheers,

Matthew

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Anton Shterenlikht]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:38:19AM +0200, Ross Cameron wrote:
> 2010/11/12 Jos?? Silveira 
> 
> > Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
> >
> > For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!

who are the Muslins and Jwishes anyway?

Some form of Martin life?
I've never heard of them.


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Ross Cameron]

2010/11/12 José Silveira 

> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>
> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!


Because we don't want narrow minded, religious bigots clogging up the
mailing lists like this one.
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Wojciech Puchar]

Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

because i use freebsd. and i am a devil.
And every true devil use FreeBSD.



For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!

José Silveira
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Ott Köstner]

On 12.11.2010 6:21, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:39:28PM +, José Silveira wrote:
>> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
>>
>> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!
> Perhaps it is merely an effective booby trap to catch small-minded people
> who are too narrow in their thinking to consider doing something
> intelligent like search the Web, Wikipedia, or the mailing list archives
> for an answer to this question.  It's not like it doesn't come up every
> damned six months.
>
IMHO, this is the best answer so far.


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Ryan Coleman]

On Nov 11, 2010, at 23:25, Gary Kline  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 09:24:01PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 08:40:03PM -0600, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> He was forwarding and José top-posted on a private response.
>>> 
>>> And I will top-post til the day I die.
>> 
>> Hurry up.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
> 
> LOLOLOL; LMAO ah, [mumble].


At least they can send me email 
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Gary Kline]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 09:24:01PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 08:40:03PM -0600, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> > He was forwarding and José top-posted on a private response.
> > 
> > And I will top-post til the day I die.
> 
> Hurry up.
> 
> -- 
> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]

LOLOLOL; LMAO ah, [mumble].



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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Adam Vande More]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Randal L. Schwartz
wrote:

> > "Ryan" == Ryan Coleman  writes:
>
> Ryan> Really... I have a finger for that. I *HATE* bottom posting. It
> Ryan> makes quick checking of email impossible.
>
> Only when people don't properly trim... another necessary item in
> posting, whether top *or* bottom.
>

I thought I remembered this little gem:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2008-June/177810.html

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 10:06:51PM -0600, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
> Really... I have a finger for that. I *HATE* bottom posting. It makes
> quick checking of email impossible.

Start a different mailing list, then, where the rule is top-posting.  The
fact you do not like answering in natural text order does not excuse you
for behaving in an antisocial manner that violates list guidelines and
cultural norms here at freebsd-questions.

Of course, if you want have mailing lists that are conducive to very
quick checking, you should probably choose a mailing list with less
technical content.  One of the reason top posting is considered harmful
on lists like this is that it is not conducive to combining context with
response.  This approach is better for in-depth discussion; top-posting
is better for IM-like responses that do not require any thought.

If you prefer thoughtless "discussion", go somewhere that is the norm.

-- 
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Ryan" == Ryan Coleman  writes:

Ryan> Really... I have a finger for that. I *HATE* bottom posting. It
Ryan> makes quick checking of email impossible.

Only when people don't properly trim... another necessary item in
posting, whether top *or* bottom.

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 08:40:03PM -0600, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> He was forwarding and José top-posted on a private response.
> 
> And I will top-post til the day I die.

Hurry up.

-- 
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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Chad Perrin]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:39:28PM +, José Silveira wrote:
> Why do you use a devil as a mascot?
> 
> For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!

Perhaps it is merely an effective booby trap to catch small-minded people
who are too narrow in their thinking to consider doing something
intelligent like search the Web, Wikipedia, or the mailing list archives
for an answer to this question.  It's not like it doesn't come up every
damned six months.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Dave Robison]

On 11/11/10 15:39, José Silveira wrote:

Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!

José Silveira
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And those are just a couple of the benefits!

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Re: Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

[Ryan Coleman]

On Nov 11, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Adam Vande More wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> He was forwarding and José top-posted on a private response.
> 
> And I will top-post til the day I die.
> 
> :)
> 
> Please follow list expectations, if you don't like it find another list.
> 
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html#ETIQUETTE-REPLYING
> 
> -- 
> Adam Vande More


Really... I have a finger for that. I *HATE* bottom posting. It makes quick 
checking of email impossible.

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