: By the way, the problem apparently has been solved in
: DragonFly BSD (i.e. DF BSD does not panic when a mounted
: FS is physically removed). Maybe it is worth to have a
We didn't do much here. Just started pulling devices, looking at the
crash dumps, and fixing things.
Peter Jeremy wrote:
Dennis Melentyev wrote:
Is there any correct way to initiate funding to rewrite VM/VFS related
parts (getting non-panicable removable devices)? Who should one
contact for this?
I would suggest that the first step is finding someone (or a few
people) with the
Hi Oliver!
2007/7/30, Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Peter Jeremy wrote:
Dennis Melentyev wrote:
Is there any correct way to initiate funding to rewrite VM/VFS related
parts (getting non-panicable removable devices)? Who should one
contact for this?
I would suggest that
Hello Peter,
Thank you for your answer.
2007/7/28, Peter Jeremy [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On 2007-Jul-27 18:29:44 +0300, Dennis Melentyev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[skipped architectural description, and, thank for it]
I'd rather consider this problem as security one.
I think that is a very long
Hello Peter and everybody,
Sorry for continuing this thread, but let's not forgot the security
aspect of this issue:
If you run amd on some host configured to automount USB drives, it's
easy to force DoS attack. Just insert the flash/HDD and remove it
short after it's mounted.
Sure, it's almost
On 2007-Jul-27 18:29:44 +0300, Dennis Melentyev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry for continuing this thread, but let's not forgot the security
aspect of this issue:
If you run amd on some host configured to automount USB drives, it's
easy to force DoS attack. Just insert the flash/HDD and remove it
On 2007-Jul-23 16:15:56 +0200, Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, currently the best work-around is to use amd with a
very short timeout. Or simply remember to umount your
removable media manually.
Or ports/emulators/mtools
--
Peter Jeremy
pgpDLc0Ghx67i.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Stefan Esser wrote:
Oliver Fromme wrote:
Momchil Ivanov wrote:
I don`t know how things work, but shutting down the system when some
mounted fs is no longer present seems like the wrong thing to me.
As Josh wrote, it's expected. The problem is known
to exist for a long time
On Saturday 21 July 2007 20:50:21 Zoran Kolic wrote:
This topic is extremely interesting. For me, unmounting usb
device is not so hard to do. I remember -r flag to mount
with just read option. So, if hand follows the brain impuls,
put another impuls to unmount it first.
Yup. But this is only
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:19:51 +0200
Stefan Esser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Norberto Meijome schrieb:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:38:14 +0200
[LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I mentioned earlier I remember it working during the 5.3 era on Stable,
at
some point it worked. I even
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:44:13 -0600 (MDT)
M. Warner Losh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Norberto Meijome [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:02:50 -0600 (MDT)
: M. Warner Losh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:
: In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
Norberto Meijome schrieb:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:38:14 +0200
[LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I mentioned earlier I remember it working during the 5.3 era on Stable, at
some point it worked. I even remember removing my CD-Rom drive from my
Thinkpad
without running atacontrol
From: Norberto Meijome [EMAIL PROTECTED]
i can eject the disk just fine (which in itself is weird, i think) the
device is still there...
umount /dev/cd0
works fine and off it goes. other than that, no, i havent tried to access the
device in question
I never saw that behaviour. It
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Norberto Meijome [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:02:50 -0600 (MDT)
: M. Warner Losh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:
: In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Momchil Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: : What is then the reason for the
On 19/07/07, M. Warner Losh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
The best one can do without massive buffer cache work is what firewire
does: it has one attachment to handle all umass devices. When the
device goes away, it pauses all operations to that device. If the
device comes back, it resumes
It won't fix it. The problem is dangling pointers to devices that no
longer exist. And like all dangling references after 'free' you get
bad thing happening.
Believe me, if it were easy, it would have been fixed. If it was
moderate to fix, it would have been fixed. It is a hard problem
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Hash: SHA1
Hi,
Am 20.07.2007 um 08:16 schrieb Christian Walther:
[...]
It's a pity that FreeBSD can't handle these situations.
Since no one here on this list has enough money to get development on
the road, maybe we could try collecting money? Everyone
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:38:14 +0200
[LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I mentioned earlier I remember it working during the 5.3 era on Stable, at
some point it worked. I even remember removing my CD-Rom drive from my
Thinkpad
without running atacontrol detach. The system just took it
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:02:50 -0600 (MDT)
M. Warner Losh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Momchil Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: What is then the reason for the kernel not being able to unmount a
: filesystem whose provider is no longer present?
The
Hi,
How Mac OS X handle this? Method, tricks, code, etc...
Does Linux reboot when this happen?
One can argue the kernel is so different between OS X, Linux and FBSD,
but it is still better to compare WIN vs FBSD (or NTFS vs UFS).
Or may be I am wrong.
BTW,
I hardly ever put a USB Disk on
Oliver Fromme wrote:
Momchil Ivanov wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 15:52:42 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Josh Paetzel wrote:
Yes, it's expected behavior. The workaround is to not unplug mounted
devices. (There's nothing special about USB here, if you unplugged an
IDE drive you'd
Norberto Meijome wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:41:04 +0200 (CEST)
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
another work-around
is to use the auto mounter daemon (amd(8)). It umounts
file systems automatically that are not in use.
Another nice feature of amd(8) is that you don't have
to mount
On Thursday 19 July 2007 09:17:48 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Norberto Meijome wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:41:04 +0200 (CEST)
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
another work-around
is to use the auto mounter daemon (amd(8)). It umounts
file systems automatically that are not in use.
On Thu 19 Jul 2007, at 15:43, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
On Thursday 19 July 2007 09:17:48 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Norberto Meijome wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:41:04 +0200 (CEST)
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
another work-around
is to use the auto mounter daemon (amd(8)). It umounts
Hi All!
2007/7/19, Momchil Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Thursday 19 July 2007 09:17:48 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Norberto Meijome wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:41:04 +0200 (CEST)
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
another work-around
is to use the auto mounter daemon (amd(8)). It
on 18/07/2007 20:34 Mark Linimon said the following:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB device
that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
I also have a hard time believing that the reason it hasn't
on 19/07/2007 13:03 Daniel O'Connor said the following:
Andriy Gapon wrote:
Well, here's my two kopiykas.
Apparently there is somebody who tried to fix this problem, but for some
reason (most probably language barrier) his attempt is largely unnoticed
so far.
Here is a link to a posting to
Andriy Gapon wrote:
Well, barriers usually stop something :-)
Heh :)
There are some comments in Russian, maybe someone will find time to
translate, maybe even me...
It could come in handy.
FreeBSD VFS comitters are rare, ones that understand Russian are
probably almost non-existent :)
Andriy Gapon wrote:
on 18/07/2007 20:34 Mark Linimon said the following:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB device
that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
I also have a hard time believing that the
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:49:22 +0930
Daniel O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Andriy Gapon wrote:
Well, barriers usually stop something :-)
Heh :)
There are some comments in Russian, maybe someone will find time to
translate, maybe even me...
It could come in handy.
FreeBSD VFS
On 2007-Jul-19 00:57:57 +0200, Momchil Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think you are missing the point here and it is that the drive is already
gone, so you do not have to care about it.
I don't think anyone is missing this point.
The most natural way for me seems to be that the OS should
On 2007-Jul-19 08:58:27 +0200, [LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I remember on 5.3 I removed a mounted USB stick. The system did not panic, all
I had to do was to plug the stick back in to be able to unmount it. So the
behaviour has been more tolerant, in the past.
Did you or the syncer
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Josh Paetzel wrote:
: On Wednesday 18 July 2007, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
: Hi,
:
: I am running FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE #11: Sat Jul 14 16:27:12 CEST 2007
: and accidently unplugged the USB hub to which my external
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baldur Gislason [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: I vaguely remember being able to yank out USB drives in 5.x and just make
: usbd execute a forced umount without any problems. FAT32 drives mind you.
: On 6.2 I haven't even been able to unplug a USB drive even
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: If someone wants to work on this and needs devices/toys (thumb drives,
: external enclosures + hard disks), let me know, I will be more than
: happy to buy them the hardware needed.
Willing to fund the work on
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Momchil Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: On Wednesday 18 July 2007 19:34:06 Mark Linimon wrote:
: On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
: Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB device
: that has
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: This would alleviate concerns over data loss, would it not?
No. The problem is more basic: the device *driver* is gone. All the
code unwinding has happened. The physical device is also gone, which
is what
On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 08:48:21AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: If someone wants to work on this and needs devices/toys (thumb drives,
: external enclosures + hard disks), let me know, I will be more than
:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Oliver Fromme wrote:
: Momchil Ivanov wrote:
:On Wednesday 18 July 2007 15:52:42 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
: Josh Paetzel wrote:
: Yes, it's expected behavior. The workaround is to not unplug mounted
:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Norberto Meijome [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: re. USB disks, could we not by default use amd to mount USB devices? It seems
: the obvious native replacement for hald + polkitd + dbus I use in XFCE with
: Thunar on my laptop...
Won't work. Once the device
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Momchil Ivanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: What is then the reason for the kernel not being able to unmount a
: filesystem whose provider is no longer present?
The problem is that the device driver has wound down, deallocated
memory, etc. Now the kernel
Nikola Lecic wrote:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opennet.ru%2Fopenforum%2FvsluhforumID9%2F6467.htmllangpair=ru%7Cenhl=enie=UTF8
Useful? Seems comprehensible enough (maybe a wrong impression since I
understand Russian text).
I'm not a VFS guru, alas :)
M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baldur Gislason [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: I vaguely remember being able to yank out USB drives in 5.x and just make
: usbd execute a forced umount without any problems. FAT32 drives mind you.
: On 6.2 I haven't even been able
On Thursday 19 July 2007, M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: If someone wants to work on this and needs devices/toys (thumb
: drives, external enclosures + hard disks), let me know, I will be
: more than happy to buy
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[LoN]Kamikaze [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: Oliver Fromme wrote:
: Momchil Ivanov wrote:
:On Wednesday 18 July 2007 15:52:42 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
: Josh Paetzel wrote:
: Yes, it's
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 08:48:21AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote:
: In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: : If someone wants to work on this and needs
Hi,
I am running FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE #11: Sat Jul 14 16:27:12 CEST 2007 and
accidently unplugged the USB hub to which my external hdd together with a
mouse were connected and this caused my machine to freeze for some seconds
and then reboot. At that moment the hdd was mounted and I was playing
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 11:42:26AM +0200, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
accidently unplugged the USB hub to which my external hdd together with a
mouse were connected and this caused my machine to freeze for some seconds
and then reboot.
Yes, this is a known problem, for which there is no workaround
On Wednesday 18 July 2007, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
Hi,
I am running FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE #11: Sat Jul 14 16:27:12 CEST 2007
and accidently unplugged the USB hub to which my external hdd
together with a mouse were connected and this caused my machine to
freeze for some seconds and then reboot. At
Josh Paetzel wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
Hi,
I am running FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE #11: Sat Jul 14 16:27:12 CEST 2007
and accidently unplugged the USB hub to which my external hdd
together with a mouse were connected and this caused my machine to
freeze for some
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 15:52:42 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Josh Paetzel wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
Hi,
I am running FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE #11: Sat Jul 14 16:27:12 CEST 2007
and accidently unplugged the USB hub to which my external hdd
together with a mouse were
I vaguely remember being able to yank out USB drives in 5.x and just make
usbd execute a forced umount without any problems. FAT32 drives mind you.
On 6.2 I haven't even been able to unplug a USB drive even if I unmount it
first, always results in a kernel panic.
Baldur
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at
Momchil Ivanov wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 15:52:42 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Josh Paetzel wrote:
Yes, it's expected behavior. The workaround is to not unplug mounted
devices. (There's nothing special about USB here, if you unplugged an
IDE drive you'd get the same behavior)
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 05:03:03PM +0200, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
Windows doesn`t reboot if you unplug the usb or network cable, which I
think
is the right way of handling these kind of situations.
Windows also (as of XP; I don't think it was this way in 2000) by
default disables read/write
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 17:41:04 Oliver Fromme wrote:
As Josh wrote, it's expected. The problem is known
to exist for a long time already (probably as long
as FreeBSD itself exists), and if there was an easy
solution, certainly someone would have fixed it.
Just remember to always umount
This really struck me as a problem when I had a short power outage and my
external USB hard drive
wasn't plugged into the UPS. Laptop didn't reboot from the power outage but it
rebooted
anyway because it lost a hard drive (which was mounted but I wasn't doing any
work on)
Baldur
On Wed, Jul
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 06:30:44PM +0200, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 17:41:04 Oliver Fromme wrote:
As Josh wrote, it's expected. The problem is known
to exist for a long time already (probably as long
as FreeBSD itself exists), and if there was an easy
solution,
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB device
that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
I also have a hard time believing that the reason it hasn't been fixed
is because there isn't an easy fix. I'm under
Nobody's said what the problem is. I'm not a filesystem code monkey, but
IIRC, the problem is that the filesystem plays fast and loose with pointers
and is too closely related to the VM.
One solution is (as mentioned) a userland filesystem that doesn't panic.
automount approximates this if you
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 19:34:06 Mark Linimon wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB device
that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
Just a dumb question: what does umount -f does? And doing
Momchil Ivanov wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 19:34:06 Mark Linimon wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB device
that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
Just a dumb question: what does
On Wednesday 18 July 2007, Mark Linimon wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB
device that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
I also have a hard time believing that the reason it hasn't been
Oliver Fromme wrote:
Momchil Ivanov wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 15:52:42 [LoN]Kamikaze wrote:
Josh Paetzel wrote:
Yes, it's expected behavior. The workaround is to not unplug mounted
devices. (There's nothing special about USB here, if you unplugged an
IDE drive you'd
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 11:54:19AM -0700, Kris Moore wrote:
That being said, I think it would be a good idea to at least have the
kernel / HAL or some process maybe warn the user that they should
unmount the USB disk first, to prevent data loss at minimum. But I think
this can be improved, so
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
One solution is (as mentioned) a userland filesystem that doesn't panic.
automount approximates this if you set the disconnect interval short ( 5
seconds).
Unfortunately the approximation is far from perfect because it takes
noticable time to mount a msdosfs on large
Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 11:54:19AM -0700, Kris Moore wrote:
That being said, I think it would be a good idea to at least have the
kernel / HAL or some process maybe warn the user that they should
unmount the USB disk first, to prevent data loss at minimum. But I think
Josh Paetzel wrote:
designing a
filesystem that doesn't need to be unmounted specifically for
removeable devices.
Or just do what Windows does on its hard-drive-mounted NTFS and MSDOS
file systems and mark it clean after several seconds of inactivity. This
also helps solve other problems
Mark Linimon wrote:
The reason is not the USB stack; the reason (IIRC) is that the FreeBSD
VM was written with the default assumption that Devices Never Go Away.
A large rewrite, I'm told, will be needed to fix this, and the code is
convoluted and tricky.
I also feel that the institutial
On 18 Jul, Momchil Ivanov wrote:
If the problem is in general with a file system, regardless of the provider,
then what does one do when a mounted smbfs becomes unavailable due to remote
host down, no route to host or some other network related problems? Same
question for NFS mounted
On Wednesday 18 July 2007 21:03:10 Josh Paetzel wrote:
On Wednesday 18 July 2007, Mark Linimon wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:59AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
Bottom line here is that the kernel panics when removing a USB
device that has filesystems mounted.
s/USB //
I
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:41:04 +0200 (CEST)
Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you have problems remembering,
This is very interesting thread indeed
I have found that mounting remote SMB shares will panic the kernel too, but
only if i try to access it while 'gone' . If I remember
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