Re: time gives a strange result
Hi, On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:17:52 +0700 Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 14.01.2021 8:16, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > all my make commands run as time make ... > > > > I just got this result compiling scribus: > > > > 5m19.94s real 1h15m31.76s user5m20.87s sys > > > > I do not know how long it really took but 1h seems far to high. It > > really could be 15min. > > > > NTPD is running. I did not notice any large time adjustments. > > If you use 16 cores or more, numbers look fine: ~ 5min 20 sec "real" > (wall clock) time spent to utilize nearly all power of CPU cores > summarized to user+sys times. yes, I also noticed meanwhile with Sijmen's help. I am now for 20 years on FreeBSD on machines with at least two CPUs but I never noticed this. Erich > > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: time gives a strange result
Hi Sijmen, On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 03:07:39 +0100 "Sijmen J. Mulder" wrote: > Hi Erich, > > Erich Dollansky wrote: > > 5m19.94s real 1h15m31.76s user5m20.87s sys > > > > I do not know how long it really took but 1h seems far to high. It > > really could be 15min. > > Looks like parallel processing, e.g. make running jobs on multiple CPU > cores at once. If that's the case, the 'real' time is the actual > elapsed time while 'user' and 'sys' are cumulative times per core. > yes, it really look like this. I just never noticed this before. Erich > Sijmen > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
time gives a strange result
Hi, all my make commands run as time make ... I just got this result compiling scribus: 5m19.94s real 1h15m31.76s user5m20.87s sys I do not know how long it really took but 1h seems far to high. It really could be 15min. NTPD is running. I did not notice any large time adjustments. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: lightly loaded system eats swap space
Hi, On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:06:42 +0200 Stefan Esser wrote: > Am 19.06.18 um 03:48 schrieb Erich Dollansky: > > A very long time ago - and not on FreeBSD but maybe on a real BSD - > > I worked with a system that swapped pages out just to bring it back > > as one contiguous block. This made a difference those days. I do > > not know if the code made it out of the university I was working > > at. I just imagine now that the code made it out and is still in > > use with the opposite effect. > > If this was on a VAX, then it was due to a short-coming of the > MMU of the VAX, which used one linear array (in system virtual this could have been the case as they have had many DEC systems. > Nothing of the above applies to any other architecture than the > VAX and thus the swap-out of all user processes serves no purpose > on any other system. It was an implementation detail of the VAX > VM code, not a BSD Unix feature. I know how an MMU works, but I also know how caches work. It still could give a tiny advantage if it is in one piece, even if it is not a requirement to function. Any way, I do not work in this area anymore. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: lightly loaded system eats swap space
Hi, On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:27:23 +0100 tech-lists wrote: > On 18/06/2018 09:08, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 23:19:02 +0100 > > tech-lists wrote: > > > >> freebsd-11-stable r333874, ZFS raidz1-0 (3x4TB disks), 128GB RAM, > >> Swap: 4096M Total, 3502M Used, 594M Free, 85% Inuse > > > > this might not be related but I noticed that your swap space is > > small compared to RAM size. I noticed on a much smaller Raspberry > > Pi, that it runs into trouble when there is no swap even there is > > enough RAM available. Is it easily possible for you to add some GB > > of swap space and let the machine run then? > > > > How much swap do the other machines have? > > Yes, the machine with the problem uses the default 4GB swap. That's > all the swap it has. The machine without issue has a swapfile > installed on a SSD in addition to the default 4GB swap. > > problematic machine: > Device 512-blocks UsedAvail Capacity > /dev/ada0p38388608 3.3G 714M83% > > machine without a problem, it has swapfile installed: > Device 512-blocks UsedAvail Capacity > /dev/ada0s1b 8262248 1.7G 2.2G44% > /dev/md0 65536000 1.9G 29G 6% > Total 73798248 3.7G 32G10% > > I added the swapfile a long time ago on this machine due to the same > issue. so, the same effect as on a small Raspberry. It seems that you also use a memory disk for swap. Mine is backed by a file via NFS. > > But my problem isn't so much an out of swapspace problem; all this > is, is a symptom. My problem is "why is it swapping out at all on a > 128GB system and why is what's swapped out not being swapped back in > again". > I wondered even on the small Raspberry about this. The Raspberries come with 1GB of RAM. Running just a compilation should never be the problem but sometimes it is. A very long time ago - and not on FreeBSD but maybe on a real BSD - I worked with a system that swapped pages out just to bring it back as one contiguous block. This made a difference those days. I do not know if the code made it out of the university I was working at. I just imagine now that the code made it out and is still in use with the opposite effect. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: lightly loaded system eats swap space
Hi, On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 23:19:02 +0100 tech-lists wrote: > freebsd-11-stable r333874, ZFS raidz1-0 (3x4TB disks), 128GB RAM, > Swap: 4096M Total, 3502M Used, 594M Free, 85% Inuse this might not be related but I noticed that your swap space is small compared to RAM size. I noticed on a much smaller Raspberry Pi, that it runs into trouble when there is no swap even there is enough RAM available. Is it easily possible for you to add some GB of swap space and let the machine run then? How much swap do the other machines have? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x50904) with this library (version 0x50a01),Abort (core dumped)
Hi, On Thu, 31 May 2018 15:37:46 +0100 tech-lists wrote: > Hello lists, > > context: 11.2-PRERELEASE #0 r333458 / ports r471194 > > with xpdf I get the following error: > > Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x50904) with this > library (version 0x50a01),Abort (core dumped) > > I seem to have both qt4-4.8.7 and qt5-5.10.1 installed. I didn't > install these directly though, seems they've been installed as > dependencies of other ports. I'm using MATE desktop. > > I've tried reinstalling xfdf via pkg and the port with the same > result. Is this a known problem/how can I fix? Have found no fix yet > from GIS, most seem to point to deleting and reinstalling everything. > > thanks, portupgrade from the ports tree will be your good friend. It will either fix all problems or at least list the problematic ports. There are some other applications in the tree which do the same. So, you are spoiled for choice to get this problem fixed. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FreeBSD on 64MB memory
Hi, I do not know if this helps here. I faced also memory problems on the older Raspberry generations. Enabling swap helped even with no swap in use. Maybe, you also try it. Erich On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 20:56:02 -0800 Ask Bjørn Hansen <a...@develooper.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I have an old Soekris system with 64MB memory that I upgraded from > 10.3 to 11.1 recently. Since then it’s started hanging every few days. > > Today I happened to have a “top” instance running on the serial > console. The system is minimally responsive to the network (ICMP and > CARP are working, but no services). > > From the top output it’s not clear what resource it’s out of. > There’s no swap configured, but that what it looks like it’s trying > to do? > > The ‘pf purge’ process is suspicious. There are no pf rules > configured on the system (it should be all disabled). > > Any suggestions? (Other than “seriously … 64MB memory?!”). > > > Ask > > > last pid: 2228; load averages: 0.63, 0.65, 0.70 up > 0+21:13:5604:50:47 36 processes: 2 running, 33 sleeping, 1 > waiting CPU: 0.1% user, 0.0% nice, 11.3% system, 2.4% interrupt, > 86.2% idle Mem: 1616K Active, 10M Inact, 28M Wired, 3099K Buf, 1768K > Free Swap: > > PIDUIDTHR PRI NICE SIZERES STATETIMEWCPU > COMMAND 11 0 1 155 ki31 0K 8K RUN 16.8H 75.53% > idle 0 0 7 -16- 0K64K swapin 155:10 12.00% > kernel 16 0 3 -16- 0K24K psleep 10:04 8.15% > pagedaemon 12 0 14 -64- 0K 112K WAIT27:21 > 2.80% intr 6 0 1 -16- 0K 8K pftm 8:56 > 0.73% pf purge 1027 0 1 200 7272K 1140K RUN > 6:04 0.52% top 7 0 1 -16- 0K 8K - > 2:57 0.18% rand_harvestq 21 0 1 16- 0K 8K > syncer 0:22 0.05% syncer 22 0 1 21- 0K 8K > vlruwt 0:07 0.01% vnlru 19 0 1 20- 0K 8K > psleep 0:08 0.01% bufdaemon 788 0 1 200 5920K > 1752K select 0:04 0.01% syslogd 20 0 1 20- > 0K 8K -0:07 0.01% bufspacedaemon 911 0 1 > 200 8816K 8844K kmem a 43:41 0.00% ntpd 996 0 1 > 200 13628K 4620K kmem a 0:06 0.00% sshd 985 0 1 > 200 5952K 584K kmem a 0:07 0.00% cron 709 0 1 > 200 7300K 3364K kmem a 0:01 0.00% devd 2227 0 1 > 240 5952K 1232K kmem a 0:00 0.00% cron > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To > unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Booting Raspberry Pi with input on serial console
Hi, On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:40:21 +0100 Peter Ankerstål <pe...@pean.org> wrote: > I have a problem that should (?) have a simple solution but I havent > found one. > are there settings starting with the boot loader to stop the console? > I have a raspberry pi with a NMEA-GPS constantly hooked up to the > serial console of the Pi. > > My problem is that when booting the Pi it will interpet the output > from the GPS as input to the boot process and the boot will fail. How > can I have the serial interface of the GPS permanently hooked up to > the pi without preventing the system to boot? > It sounds to me like a custom solution or take a relay which switches the input on only after the system is up and running. Either by software or by a timer. Yes, I know, stone-age is sending greetings. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: slow machine, swap in use, but more than 5GB of RAM inactive
Hi, On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 16:46:21 -0800 Kevin Oberman <rkober...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Erich Dollansky > <erichsfreebsdl...@alogt.com > > wrote: > > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 23:30:58 +1100 (EST) > > Ian Smith <smi...@nimnet.asn.au> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 10:19:35 +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > > > > > I wonder about the slow speed of my machine while top shows > > > > ample inactive memory: > > > > > > ( quoting from this top output because it's neater :) > > > > > > > last pid: 85287; load averages: 2.56, 2.44, 1.68 > > > > up 6+10:24:45 10:13:36 191 processes: 5 running, 186 sleeping > > > > CPU 0: 47.1% user, 0.0% nice, 51.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, > > > > 1.6% idle CPU 1: 38.4% user, 0.0% nice, 60.4% system, 0.0% > > > > interrupt, 1.2% idle CPU 2: 38.8% user, 0.0% nice, 59.2% > > > > system, 0.0% interrupt, 2.0% idle CPU 3: 45.5% user, 0.0% > > > > nice, 51.0% system, 0.4% interrupt, 3.1% idle Mem: 677M > > > > Active, 5600M Inact, 1083M Wired, 178M Cache, 816M Buf,301M > > > > Free Swap: 16G Total, 1352M Used, 15G Free, 8% Inuse > > > > > > Others have covered the swap / inactive memory issue. > > > > > > But I'd expect this to be slow, for any new work anyway .. there's > > > next to no idle on any CPU. I'd be asking, what's all of that > > > system usage? > > > > > this is building ports in the background. Still, used doing this > > ones a month, I know the feeling when the ports are updated. This > > one was really slow. Hopefully, it was just an unlucky coincidence. > > > > I rebooted meanwhile the machine. It is faster now, I would say, it > > is back to normal now. It did not come to its limits since the new > > start. It is now on: > > > > FreeBSD 10.3-STABLE #3 r314363 > > > > Erich > > > > Well, looks like over half of the CPU is running in system space and > that seems rather high for what I would assume is compilation. I > thinnk you will need to poke around with things like systat, and the > like to see just what the system is doing for 55% or so of all CPUs. > Since there doe snot seem to be a lot of IO or memory at issue, the > various command for those are probably not very interesting. Probably > not lock stats, either. > > This reminds me of when some operation (IIRC NFS related) was calling > system time routines that are fairly expensive on FreeBSD almost > continually. > -- There were one or two NFS clients connected but should have been idle. Both are on an older FreeBSD 12. Could it be caused by a Seagate 2TB 2 1/2" HD with 8GB SSD (ST2000LX001-1RG174)? The system behaved strangely when the disk was new. It seemed that the flash part was used at the beginning also for writing. It took then some times up to a minute before data could have been read again after prolonged write operations. The disk has now a transfer volume of some 5TB and did not show this behaviour for a few weeks. It is only hard for me to see why this happens. I use this machine since years. The only change was the disk. I know, things can happen. As I have rebooted the machine, I will keep this in mind and check also this direction when this happens again. Thanks! Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: slow machine, swap in use, but more than 5GB of RAM inactive
Hi, On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 23:30:58 +1100 (EST) Ian Smith <smi...@nimnet.asn.au> wrote: > On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 10:19:35 +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I wonder about the slow speed of my machine while top shows ample > > inactive memory: > > ( quoting from this top output because it's neater :) > > > last pid: 85287; load averages: 2.56, 2.44, 1.68 > > up 6+10:24:45 10:13:36 191 processes: 5 running, 186 sleeping > > CPU 0: 47.1% user, 0.0% nice, 51.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, 1.6% > > idle CPU 1: 38.4% user, 0.0% nice, 60.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, > > 1.2% idle CPU 2: 38.8% user, 0.0% nice, 59.2% system, 0.0% > > interrupt, 2.0% idle CPU 3: 45.5% user, 0.0% nice, 51.0% system, > > 0.4% interrupt, 3.1% idle Mem: 677M Active, 5600M Inact, 1083M > > Wired, 178M Cache, 816M Buf,301M Free > > Swap: 16G Total, 1352M Used, 15G Free, 8% Inuse > > Others have covered the swap / inactive memory issue. > > But I'd expect this to be slow, for any new work anyway .. there's > next to no idle on any CPU. I'd be asking, what's all of that system > usage? > this is building ports in the background. Still, used doing this ones a month, I know the feeling when the ports are updated. This one was really slow. Hopefully, it was just an unlucky coincidence. I rebooted meanwhile the machine. It is faster now, I would say, it is back to normal now. It did not come to its limits since the new start. It is now on: FreeBSD 10.3-STABLE #3 r314363 Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: slow machine, swap in use, but more than 5GB of RAM inactive
Hi, On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 10:02:42 +0300 Slawa Olhovchenkov <s...@zxy.spb.ru> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 10:19:35AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > I wonder about the slow speed of my machine while top shows ample > > inactive memory: > > > > last pid: 85287; load averages: 2.56, 2.44, 1.68 > > up 6+10:24:45 10:13:36 191 processes: 5 running, 186 sleeping > > CPU 0: 47.1% user, 0.0% nice, 51.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, 1.6% > > idle CPU 1: 38.4% user, 0.0% nice, 60.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, > > 1.2% idle CPU 2: 38.8% user, 0.0% nice, 59.2% system, 0.0% > > interrupt, 2.0% idle CPU 3: 45.5% user, 0.0% nice, 51.0% system, > > 0.4% interrupt, 3.1% idle Mem: 677M Active, 5600M Inact, 1083M > > Wired, 178M Cache, 816M Buf,301M Free > > Swap: 16G Total, 1352M Used, 15G Free, 8% Inuse > > > > The swap space in use can be explained by large compilations done > > recently. Why is the inactive memory not put to use. > > > > I do not want to restart the machine. So, if I could help find the > > source of the problem, I would do. > > inactive is not 'not used' memory. > this is just pages don't touched in last 10(?) seconds, but all of > this allocated (such as malloc, mmap, sendfile) to application > (userland programs). something changed then since my last update of FreeBSD. The machine is currently on 10.3-STABLE FreeBSD 10.3-STABLE #2 r313849: Fri Feb 17. It is on 10 since 2012. It was never this slow. Anyway, I will reboot it soon into a new kernel and see what will happen then. Thanks! Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
slow machine, swap in use, but more than 5GB of RAM inactive
Hi, I wonder about the slow speed of my machine while top shows ample inactive memory: last pid: 85287; load averages: 2.56, 2.44, 1.68 up 6+10:24:45 10:13:36 191 processes: 5 running, 186 sleeping CPU 0: 47.1% user, 0.0% nice, 51.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, 1.6% idle CPU 1: 38.4% user, 0.0% nice, 60.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, 1.2% idle CPU 2: 38.8% user, 0.0% nice, 59.2% system, 0.0% interrupt, 2.0% idle CPU 3: 45.5% user, 0.0% nice, 51.0% system, 0.4% interrupt, 3.1% idle Mem: 677M Active, 5600M Inact, 1083M Wired, 178M Cache, 816M Buf,301M Free Swap: 16G Total, 1352M Used, 15G Free, 8% Inuse The swap space in use can be explained by large compilations done recently. Why is the inactive memory not put to use. I do not want to restart the machine. So, if I could help find the source of the problem, I would do. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
HOST_NAME_MAX not defined in unistd.h
Hi,
there is a discrepancy in the documentation:
sys/syslimits.h says:
'/*
* We leave the following values undefined to force applications to
either
* assume conservative values or call sysconf() to get the current
value. *
* HOST_NAME_MAX
*
* (We should do this for most of the values currently defined here,
* but many programs are not prepared to deal with this yet.)
*/'
man gethostname says:
#include
and
'Host names are limited to {HOST_NAME_MAX} characters, not including
the trailing null, currently 255.'
which makes people assume that HOST_NAME_MAX is defined in unistd.h.
What is the real idea? Keep gethostname compatible to the rest or force
users to call sysconf?
Should I file a bug report?
Erich
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Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:16:16 -0700 "K. Macy" <km...@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Wednesday, August 31, 2016, Mark Linimon <lini...@lonesome.com> > wrote: > > > But for me an attraction has always been "you can build it out of > > the box", even if I rarely do it (e.g. I am not working in the > > kernel/driver area), > > > > Can clang actually bootstrap from something like lcc? As far as I can > tell you need a fairly advanced C++ compiler just to build that > compiler in src > - which already needs to be installed. It's not exactly bootstrapping > from Bourne shell. So I'm not sure "it's self-hosting" is even true, > not to mention that you needed a network connection to get src in the > first place. Thus the whole argument strikes me as circular if not > outright deceptive. > what do you want to say? CLang builds on FreeBSD after installing FreeBSD either binary or from source. If the installation is older, it might be required to move up the version ladder step by step. The only problem I see is the time it take to build it. As long it is the choice a user has, it is part of the game. Or with your words, it is not a shell. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11
Hi, Micheal continued: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=FreeBSD-OpenMP-Base I just wonder if not enabling an option in base because the option is not required in base would make the documentation of the program useless except it is documented. The problem here is now that e.b. I look typically for information of a program at the program's site. I do not think that they care there what FreeBSD makes out of the program. With other words, it creates confusion. Erich On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 01:41:42 +0200 Fernando Herrero Carrón <elfe...@gmail.com> wrote: > El 28/8/2016 0:06, "Erich Dollansky" <erichsfreebsdl...@alogt.com> > escribió: > > > > Hi, > > > > Micheal did a plain compiler benchmark on FreeBSD 11: > > > > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=freebsd11-clang-gcc=1 > > > > It shows clearly how slow CLang is compared to GCC. > > > > This is the price FreeBSD has to pay to be free of GPL in the base > > system. > > > > Erich > > Very cool comparison, thanks a lot! > > I think gcc has a lot of knowledge and experience under its belt, a > larger user base so no wonder it performs [slightly] worse. What has > really surprised me has been ImageMagick, apparently because of > openmp. The OpenMP stack has been contributed by intel, clang 3.4 if > I recall it right. Surprising. > > Cheers, > Fernando ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 01:41:42 +0200 Fernando Herrero Carrón <elfe...@gmail.com> wrote: > El 28/8/2016 0:06, "Erich Dollansky" <erichsfreebsdl...@alogt.com> > escribió: > > > > Hi, > > > > Micheal did a plain compiler benchmark on FreeBSD 11: > > > > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=freebsd11-clang-gcc=1 > > > > It shows clearly how slow CLang is compared to GCC. > > > > This is the price FreeBSD has to pay to be free of GPL in the base > > system. > > > > Erich > > Very cool comparison, thanks a lot! > > I think gcc has a lot of knowledge and experience under its belt, a > larger user base so no wonder it performs [slightly] worse. What has > really surprised me has been ImageMagick, apparently because of > openmp. The OpenMP stack has been contributed by intel, clang 3.4 if > I recall it right. Surprising. > this time, Micheal did a good job. GCC is just too old to be bad. The situation was the same for GCC when it was compared to commercial compilers those days. GCC was a lot slower. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11
Hi, Micheal did a plain compiler benchmark on FreeBSD 11: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=freebsd11-clang-gcc=1 It shows clearly how slow CLang is compared to GCC. This is the price FreeBSD has to pay to be free of GPL in the base system. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:12:24 +0200 Fernando Herrero Carrón <elfe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Many ports offer an option to compile with optimized cflags. See for > instance http://www.freshports.org/multimedia/ffmpeg: > > OPTIMIZED_CFLAGS=off: Use extra compiler optimizations > > though: > > SSE=on: Use SSE optimized routines > > It turns out that optimization options are usually off by default, so if we assume Micheal has built the test suite from ports, it is all to the defaults. I also do not see a compiler option. With the compiler option, the same compiler could be used on all platforms. I am not even sure if the same compiler was used on the Linux platforms. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:01:59 +0200 Lars Engels <lars.eng...@0x20.net> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 03:02:15PM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:14:23PM +0200, Lars Engels wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:48:46AM +0200, Andrea Brancatelli > > > wrote: > > > > Il 2016-08-21 08:45 Erich Dollansky ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > I am sure that some know of this site: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=2bsd-7linux-bench=4 > > > > > > > > > > I wonder about the results for FreeBSD. As I do not have 11 > > > > > on my machines, a stupid question. Are there still some > > > > > debugging aids enabled in 11? > > > > > They're off in those versions, but did note compiler (and > > > > > compiler args) differences between within most tests (See > > > > > attachments) as you mentioned. > > > > the benchmark then compares the off-the-shelve distributions. > > > > > > > > Excuse me, as a casual reader of the list, I don't get this > > > > "critique". > > > > > > > > I never recompile my installations, I just use them from the > > > > installation CD (as probably 90% of the rest of the world), so > > > > I don't get what is wrong with the approach of comparing an > > > > out-of-the-box FreeBSD 11 with an out-of-the-box Ubuntu > > > > whatever. > > > > > > > > If FreeBSD 11 "out-the-box" performs slow because the standard > > > > compilers options aren't good it's not a problem with the > > > > benchmarking platform but with the default CD compiling > > > > options. > > > > > > > > Am I getting it wrong? > > > > > > The problem here is that Phoronix took a Beta version of FreeBSD > > > 11. Beta versions have a lot of debugging (malloc, invariants, > > > witness) options enabled which make it significantly slower than > > > release versions. This is even obviously when you run a Beta as a > > > desktop. It just feels much slower. > > > > No. > > All debugs in amd64 is off at time of BETA. > > Ok, then FreeBSD is just slower... you missed the main point. The test was done with applications compiled with unknown options. If you want to find out the impact of an operating system on you application you have to use the same compiler with the same options on all platforms. Basically, it was a compiler test named operating system benchmark. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 03:22:35 + Kubilay Kocak <ko...@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Aug 2016, 11:31 AM Mark Linimon <lini...@lonesome.com> > wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 09:57:24AM +1000, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: > > > unless knowledgable people respond publicly and/or in the phoronix > > > forums [...] this interpretation of reality will be fixed in > > > decision- makers' minds and consequently the uptake (and support) > > > of FreeBSD. > > > > IIRC this has been done before and hasn't really been productive. > > OTOH I don't recall the details. > > > > FreeBSD hasn't had a benchmarking guru since Kris Kennaway retired > > from working on FreeBSD. > > > Michael has reached out off-list (thanks!) If anyone else is > interested, I'd be happy to create a dedicated IRC channel on > freenode to widen and focus the freebsd performance discussion net > and doc any outcomes/notes in the FreeBSD Wiki. > this is good. So, how can we help him to get things straight the next time? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 15:21:01 +1000 Kubilay Kocak <ko...@freebsd.org> wrote: > On 19/08/2016 9:34 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > I am sure that some know of this site: > > > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=2bsd-7linux-bench=4 > > > > I wonder about the results for FreeBSD. As I do not have 11 on my > > machines, a stupid question. Are there still some debugging aids > > enabled in 11? > > They're off in those versions, but did note compiler (and compiler > args) differences between within most tests (See attachments) as you > mentioned. > the benchmark then compares the off-the-shelve distributions. > > > I know that some of the results are caused by the use of CLang and > > some of the results test applications/compilers and not operating > > systems. > > gcc/clang tests and defaults in upstream build systems are almost > certainly contributors. At a minimum it would be nice to see an > attempt to standardise (force) compiler args across all OS runs for > the same test, even if this doesn't prove to be perfect. Yes, without, he compares compilers more than operating systems. > > Separating or adding tests for the same tests using non-default > compilers (in particular latest GCC versions from ports) so they match > across OS's would also be valuable. > > At a minimum it would be worth Michael highlighting the differences, > and ideally removing these variables from the tests, even if they > aren't default configurations. Though a test of out of the box > configurations is still valuable, it can serve to muddy the > underlying differences and make them tougher to isolate. He never does this. I have no idea what he wants to achieve with his benchmarking all the while as the results are very difficult to compare with real life workloads. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Benchmarks results for FreeBSD 11
Hi, On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:50:16 +0300 Sami Halabi <sodyn...@gmail.com> wrote: > At the bottom of the article there is link to the source benchmark > site. From a quick glance the benchmarks made not with the same > hardware for all. Phoronix is sort of anti-bsd site.. i won't count > on the truth of the data they present. leaving this aside, I know while I used what is now 11, there were several hand breaks on debugging just in case off. I do not know when these hand breaks are taken off and I also do not know if they still have been in the binaries used. Forget about the rest. This site is something the Sun of the IT world. Erich > > Sami > > בתאריך 19 באוג׳ 2016 02:34 AM, "Erich Dollansky" < > erichsfreebsdl...@alogt.com> כתב: > > > Hi, > > > > I am sure that some know of this site: > > > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=2bsd-7linux-bench=4 > > > > I wonder about the results for FreeBSD. As I do not have 11 on my > > machines, a stupid question. Are there still some debugging aids > > enabled in 11? > > > > I know that some of the results are caused by the use of CLang and > > some of the results test applications/compilers and not operating > > systems. > > > > Erich > > ___ > > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Benchmarks results for FreeBSD 11
Hi, I am sure that some know of this site: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=2bsd-7linux-bench=4 I wonder about the results for FreeBSD. As I do not have 11 on my machines, a stupid question. Are there still some debugging aids enabled in 11? I know that some of the results are caused by the use of CLang and some of the results test applications/compilers and not operating systems. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: DISPLAY not set inside jails after update to 10.3-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 10.3-PRERELEASE #4 r297043
Hi, On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 08:23:09 -0600 Ian Lepore <i...@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Sat, 2016-03-19 at 13:48 +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > nothing else was changed on the machine except the update. I could > > use > > > > ssh 192.168.12.12 > > > > to connect to a jail running under that IP address before the update > > without problems. > > > > It works now only with > > > > ssh -Y 192.168.12.12 > > > > The /etc/ssh/ssh_config file says: > > > > Host * > > ForwardX11 yes > > > > So, it should allow to connect to all machines providing ssh and > > forward X11. > > > > What did I miss? > > If -Y works, the ssh config file option that corresponds to that is > ForwardX11Trusted. ForwardX11 corresponds to -X. (Not sure what > changed, just throwing out the one little crumb of info I've got.) > I got this as an off-list reply: Could this be related to FreeBSD-SA-16:14.openssh? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
DISPLAY not set inside jails after update to 10.3-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 10.3-PRERELEASE #4 r297043
Hi, nothing else was changed on the machine except the update. I could use ssh 192.168.12.12 to connect to a jail running under that IP address before the update without problems. It works now only with ssh -Y 192.168.12.12 The /etc/ssh/ssh_config file says: Host * ForwardX11 yes So, it should allow to connect to all machines providing ssh and forward X11. What did I miss? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: su on 10.2: TERM: Undefined variable
Hi, On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 14:04:25 +0100 Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz> wrote: > > > > Miroslav Lachman > > The only workaround I found is adding > export TERM="" > at the top of the script. > this is a bit strange. TERM should be always define to tell the applications the capabilities of your terminal. When X is running, it is normally set to xterm, if nothing is available - or you do not know what is available - set it to vt100. Of course, the best would be to find out why it is not set on your machine. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-STABLE showing disk timeouts
Hi, On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:05:15 +0200 Marc Santhoff <m.santh...@web.de> wrote: > What is happening there and why? I have the same problem with one specific connection. Can you check the cable? Can you switch to another connector? > Do I need to worry? Not, if it was the connection. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: fat32 question
Hi, On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:23:42 +0200 Zoran Kolic <zko...@sbb.rs> wrote: > > Zoran, re Brandon's "won't understand it any more." > > Dont despair & discard stick, you can rebuild the MBR: man fdisk > > from memory start with fdisk -i -B /dev/da0 > > First, thanks all for replies! > After a bit of puzzling, I found that the problem was every Transcend > usb stick I have. They are all fine for mundane tasks and newfs_msdos > makes it able to work on freebsd. My music player was picky and has > something to say against. When I inserted old and forgoten Verbatim > drive, without making f32, it presented itself and files were ready > to play. Unbelievable. > Yep, I did fdisk step after I posted the question. No go on Transcend. > Might be hardware incompatibility or else. Btw, I always do just newfs > on back up usb disks and never had any problem, so far, on freebsd. > Once again, thank you for help. > FreeBSD has no problem when the file system is directly on the device. Other operating system have problems with it as they expect partitions. fdisk is a bit outdated. Use gpart for partitioning. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: pthread_cancel / sleep change in behaviour
Hi,. On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:18:57 +0300 Konstantin Belousov <kostik...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 08:37:40AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:43:51 +0300 > > > > and it works there. > > > > So, it is just a matter of time until the fix finds its way back to > > 10? > Yes, should be several days timeframe. this sounds perfect. > > > > > Of course, I do not ignore the signal now in the application > > anymore. The application then works as expected on 10.2 STABLE. > Well, the consequence of the bug, which affected you, is that it was > allowed for the applications to ignore SIGCANCEL. With the bug fixed, > the signal(SIGCANCEL, anything) becomes nop. Was it just me being blind or is the documentation on this a bit limited? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: pthread_cancel / sleep change in behaviour
Hi, On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:43:51 +0300 Konstantin Belousov <kostik...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 06:33:53PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:19:47 +0300 > > Konstantin Belousov <kostik...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 08:00:47AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > > > > > Is this change of behaviour a feature or a bug? > > > > > > Provide a minimal example demonstrating the issue. > > > > while preparing the example I found the source of the problem. We > > have to block all signals for some reason. The handling for > > > > signal (SIGTHR, SIG_IGN); > > > > seems to have changed. The moment I remove above's line from the > > code, the program works. There is no difference when the programs > > runs on machines prior mid November 2014. > > > Err, this is a bug, probably both in your program (user code must not > twiddle with SIGCANCEL) and in libc. The later, I believe, was fixed I did not know of this. I simply blocked all. As it worked when I tested it those days, I forgot about it. > in the HEAD r287300, which is not yet merged back to stable/10. The > libthr has a protection disallowing user code manipulating SIGCANCEL, > but due to the bug in libc signal(3) override the libthr measures. > > Apply the r287300 to your src/ and try your unchanged program with > updated libc. But yes, SIGTHR/SIGCANCEL in the program is bug. > I am just updating another machine. It might be already tomorrow when I will come back to you. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: pthread_cancel / sleep change in behaviour
Hi, On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:19:47 +0300 Konstantin Belousov <kostik...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 08:00:47AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > Is this change of behaviour a feature or a bug? > > Provide a minimal example demonstrating the issue. while preparing the example I found the source of the problem. We have to block all signals for some reason. The handling for signal (SIGTHR, SIG_IGN); seems to have changed. The moment I remove above's line from the code, the program works. There is no difference when the programs runs on machines prior mid November 2014. Thanks for your help. Simplifying the program brought me to the solution. Do you want the example? Erich > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: pthread_cancel / sleep change in behaviour
Hi, On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:43:51 +0300 Konstantin Belousov <kostik...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 06:33:53PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:19:47 +0300 > > Konstantin Belousov <kostik...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 08:00:47AM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > > Is this change of behaviour a feature or a bug? > > > Provide a minimal example demonstrating the issue. > > while preparing the example I found the source of the problem. We > > have to block all signals for some reason. The handling for > > > > signal (SIGTHR, SIG_IGN); > > > > seems to have changed. The moment I remove above's line from the > > code, the program works. There is no difference when the programs > > runs on machines prior mid November 2014. > > > Err, this is a bug, probably both in your program (user code must not > twiddle with SIGCANCEL) and in libc. The later, I believe, was fixed I just ran the same binary on: FreeBSD B85M-HD3-0.alogt.com 11.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #5 r287425: Thu Sep 3 21:44:16 WITA 2015 er...@b85m-hd3-0.alogt.com:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/B85M-HD3 amd64 and it works there. So, it is just a matter of time until the fix finds its way back to 10? Of course, I do not ignore the signal now in the application anymore. The application then works as expected on 10.2 STABLE. Thanks for your work and also thanks for your help. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
pthread_cancel / sleep change in behaviour
Hi, I noticed a change in behaviour when calling pthread_cancel for a thread which is sleeping using i.e. sleep (). How I understand pthread_cancel, it should cancel the thread and call the clean up handler soon after its return. Important is that the cancelled thread waited on a cancellation point. When I started testing our application under error conditions, I found problems I could not explain. As the application's target is a Raspberry, some tests have been done on a 10.1 on the Raspberry and some on a amd64 machine running 10.2 STABLE. The behaviour on the Raspberry was as expected but not on the amd64. The situation is now that there are always pairs of threads. One thread does the work, the other thread just does a sleep() and cancels the worker thread at the end. But, when the worker thread finishes its work normally, it cancels the sleeping thread and then returns. After some time of testing I found out that pthread_cancel calls the clean up handler of the sleeping thread only after sleep()'s return when running on 10.2 STABLE on amd64 but calls the clean up handler soon after cancellation on 10.1 on the Raspberry. Is this change of behaviour a feature or a bug? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: cp loader.sym loader.bin fails
Hi, I found the cause of the problem. For some strange reason, some file have been the year 2099 set as the date. I replaced the source tree with a new one and the problem was gone. Erich On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:15:56 +0800 Erich Dollansky erichsfreebsdl...@alogt.com wrote: Hi, I just updated my sources to: URL: svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 Relative URL: ^/stable/10 Repository Root: svn://svn.freebsd.org/base Repository UUID: ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f Revision: 280833 Node Kind: directory Schedule: normal Last Changed Author: mav Last Changed Rev: 280803 Last Changed Date: 2015-03-29 15:46:59 +0800 (Sun, 29 Mar 2015) Installing world fails now with this error: cc -O2 -pipe -DLOADER_NFS_SUPPORT -DBOOT_FORTH -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl/i386 -DLOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT -DLOADER_DISK_SUPPORT -DLOADER_GPT_SUPPORT -DLOADER_MBR_SUPPORT -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../common -I. -Wall -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/.. -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib -march=i386 -ffreestanding -mno-mmx -mno-3dnow -mno-sse -mno-sse2 -mno-sse3 -msoft-float -m32 -std=gnu99 -Qunused-arguments -DLOADER_PREFER_AMD64 -static -Ttext 0x0 -nostdlib -o loader.sym /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib/crt0.o main.o conf.o vers.o boot.o commands.o console.o devopen.o interp.o interp_backslash.o interp_parse.o ls.o misc.o module.o panic.o load_elf32.o load_elf32_obj.o reloc_elf32.o load_elf64.o load_elf64_obj.o reloc_elf64.o disk.o part.o crc32.o bcache.o isapnp.o pnp.o interp_forth.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl32/libficl.a /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../libi386/libi386.a /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../libstand32/libstand.a cp loader.sym loader.bin make[7]: exec(cp) failed (No such file or directory) *** Error code 1 Stop. make[7]: stopped in /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader *** Error code 1 There is a file 'loader' there but not a loader.sym. I encountered this error the first time with source last Friday or Saturday and thought an update will do. Does somebody has a hint? Thanks! Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
cp loader.sym loader.bin fails
Hi, I just updated my sources to: URL: svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 Relative URL: ^/stable/10 Repository Root: svn://svn.freebsd.org/base Repository UUID: ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f Revision: 280833 Node Kind: directory Schedule: normal Last Changed Author: mav Last Changed Rev: 280803 Last Changed Date: 2015-03-29 15:46:59 +0800 (Sun, 29 Mar 2015) Installing world fails now with this error: cc -O2 -pipe -DLOADER_NFS_SUPPORT -DBOOT_FORTH -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl/i386 -DLOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT -DLOADER_DISK_SUPPORT -DLOADER_GPT_SUPPORT -DLOADER_MBR_SUPPORT -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../common -I. -Wall -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/.. -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib -march=i386 -ffreestanding -mno-mmx -mno-3dnow -mno-sse -mno-sse2 -mno-sse3 -msoft-float -m32 -std=gnu99 -Qunused-arguments -DLOADER_PREFER_AMD64 -static -Ttext 0x0 -nostdlib -o loader.sym /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib/crt0.o main.o conf.o vers.o boot.o commands.o console.o devopen.o interp.o interp_backslash.o interp_parse.o ls.o misc.o module.o panic.o load_elf32.o load_elf32_obj.o reloc_elf32.o load_elf64.o load_elf64_obj.o reloc_elf64.o disk.o part.o crc32.o bcache.o isapnp.o pnp.o interp_forth.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl32/libficl.a /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../libi386/libi386.a /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../libstand32/libstand.a cp loader.sym loader.bin make[7]: exec(cp) failed (No such file or directory) *** Error code 1 Stop. make[7]: stopped in /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader *** Error code 1 There is a file 'loader' there but not a loader.sym. I encountered this error the first time with source last Friday or Saturday and thought an update will do. Does somebody has a hint? Thanks! Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: When will subversion be ready for updating/upgrading src ports?
Hi, On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 20:38:07 -0700 bsd-li...@hush.com wrote: Greetings, Well after posting a couple of questions to the list regarding questions I had before migrating from (cv)sup to subversion, I took the leap: mv /usr/src/ /usr/src.old/ mkdir /usr/src mv /usr/ports/ /usr/ports.old/ mkdir /usr/ports rm -fr /var/db/sup/* rm -fr /var/db/portsnap/* svn checkout svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/8 /usr/src svn checkout svn://svn.freebsd.org/ports/head /usr/ports I then performed a portmaster -a which left me with a non-working X desktop. Turned out to be a problem with the Nvidia driver -- was 2.9.40, now 3.10.14. But loading it in loader.conf didn't create /dev/nvidia0, or /dev/nvidiactl To make a long story short, I attempted to update my src ports, and try agaiin; svn update svn://svn.freebsd.org/ports/head /usr/ports FAILED! I don't have the exact output So I tried: cd /usr/ports svn update Which replied: svn: E155036: Please see the 'svn upgrade' command svn: E155036: The working copy at '/usr/ports' is too old (format 29) to work with client version '1.8.0 (r1490375)' (expects f ormat 31). You need to upgrade the working copy first. you need a big pipe for svn. I also do not understand why a program is not able to handle a format change automatically. So I guess subversion isn't (yet) designed for this sort of stuff, which leaves me with a useless box. :( What did I say a long time ago? It takes time to get this up but not a cut-off date. Erich Thank you for all your time, and consideration. --chris ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: wireless mouse on 9.1
Hi, On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:51:08 -0500 Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/21/2013 7:04 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: the M570? I have it too. As it was my first wireless and they do not sell the wired anymore, I worried about battery life time. It was one year for the first battery. The trackman was running on 8.2 and is now running on 10 without any problems too. Erich Yes. It is my second wireless trackman, and my fourth trackman. I do not know how many I have owned. It must have been more than 20 years ago when I bought my first one. I also owned several mice. The first one was their first mouse with three buttons. I stopped using it after computers did not have serial ports anymore. So, it simply worked and worked and worked. The first one I had many years ago, kept it for almost 4 years, left mouse button stopped clicking, Logitech sent me a replacement with a wheel, since they'd stopped making the original. I lost that one in a hurricane. About 4 years ago, I bought my first wireless one. About 2 years ago the receiver simply died. Logitech sent me the m570 as a replacement. None failed for me while being on service. One was eaten alive by termites, some got thrown away by an ex. Some gone missing in action. Two are doing currently active service. One with cable, one without. Yea.. I've been happy with Logitech. I didn't even pay for shipping, didn't have to send the old ones back. I was told Throw em away, sell em at a yard sale, we don't want them back... I am not able to tell how these things are handled on the other side of the globe. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: wireless mouse on 9.1
Hi, On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:41:06 -0500 Chuck Burns brea...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/21/2013 11:05 AM, Zoran Kolic wrote: I had usb switch to share keyboard and mouse for two nodes, of which freebsd worked flawlessly, but openbsd disconnected quite often and made a lot of antics in X. After all, I dismembered the configuration and now I have 2 kb-s and 2 mice. A lot of wires on the table. The plan would be to get not too expensive wireless mouse for freebsd node. Reading forums I found a lot of people having problem with those kind of mice. Could someone recommend one what is known to work on branch 9? For some reason I prefer logitech. And I assume that usb dongle works on hardware level and does not need anything to work? Best regards I have a Logitech Trackman wireless trackball. works perfectly. As does my daughter's wireless mouse. Also logitech. the M570? I have it too. As it was my first wireless and they do not sell the wired anymore, I worried about battery life time. It was one year for the first battery. The trackman was running on 8.2 and is now running on 10 without any problems too. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Installing FreeBSD 9.1 amd64 on IBM x3550 M3
Hi, On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 13:23:53 +0200 Panagiotis Christias p.christ...@noc.ntua.gr wrote: Hello, I'm trying to install FreeBSD 9.1 amd64 on an IBM x3550 M3 server. Installation went smoothly, RAID controller and network cards were successfully recognised. But, after the installation, the server fails to boot from disk. There were some posts, about two years ago, in this list implying that the problem lies in UEFI but I couldn't find any clear solution. I do not know if this is the same problem I face on my notebook but it currently does not boot when I use GPT. Can you give a MBR partitioned disk a try? My notebook was earlier booting from a GPT disk. I cannot remember why I used MBR for the new disk. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Installing FreeBSD 9.1 amd64 on IBM x3550 M3
Hi, On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:58:41 +0200 Panagiotis Christias p.christ...@noc.ntua.gr wrote: On 11/2/2013 14:11, Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 13:23:53 +0200 Panagiotis Christias p.christ...@noc.ntua.gr wrote: Hello, I'm trying to install FreeBSD 9.1 amd64 on an IBM x3550 M3 server. Installation went smoothly, RAID controller and network cards were successfully recognised. But, after the installation, the server fails to boot from disk. There were some posts, about two years ago, in this list implying that the problem lies in UEFI but I couldn't find any clear solution. I do not know if this is the same problem I face on my notebook but it currently does not boot when I use GPT. Can you give a MBR partitioned disk a try? My notebook was earlier booting from a GPT disk. I cannot remember why I used MBR for the new disk. Hello, I suppose trying an 8.3 installation would be the easiest way to use MBR instead of GPT, right; I run 10 with MBR. It is only a matter of telling either the installation programm or gpart what to do. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD-9.1 would not boot on pentium3 laptop
Hi, On Tue, 05 Feb 2013 23:38:28 -0500 Mikhail T. mi+t...@aldan.algebra.com wrote: Hello! I have an old Dell Latitude C800 laptop (with Pentium3 CPU in it). FreeBSD 6.3-STABLE was running fine on it, but I decided to update the machine to 9.1-STABLE. Well, neither my own custom kernel, nor even the official 9.1-RELEASE CD1 would boot... In both cases the boot process runs up to detecting uhub0, then either hangs forever or shuts off after a short while. USB? I have had a Fujitsu LifeBook which I only could use with 7.x out for the same reason. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD-9.1 would not boot on pentium3 laptop
Hi, On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 00:11:28 -0500 Mikhail T. mi+t...@aldan.algebra.com wrote: On 05.02.2013 23:50, Erich Dollansky wrote: USB? That would be a shame -- I'm dressing up this old machine to be used with a couple of USB-devices. try 7.4. This worked for me until a lightning came. I have had a Fujitsu LifeBook which I only could use with 7.x out for the same reason. Is there a PR? Thanks, No. I did not want to bother people for such an old device. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD wiki offline for a bit
Hi, On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:08:33 +0200 Alexander Yerenkow yeren...@gmail.com wrote: http://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSTuningGuide Error 503 Service Unavailable Service Unavailable Guru Meditation: XID: 931036950 Varnish cache server is all I get. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD?
Hi, On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 15:45:10 +1100 Dewayne Geraghty dewayne.gerag...@heuristicsystems.com.au wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-sta...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-sta...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Erich Dollansky Sent: Friday, 4 January 2013 12:26 PM To: Patrick M. Hausen Cc: Eitan Adler; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD? Hi, On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:48:01 +0100 Patrick M. Hausen hau...@punkt.de wrote: Hello, Am 03.01.2013 um 16:36 schrieb Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com: CVS/SVN should be considered a development tool. Users should not see the impact of the switch. In theory. What is the recommended csup replacement for users that did cd /usr/src make update buildworld buildkernel as their method of keeping the system current? the above's line keeps the originally installed sources intact and just recompiles them again and again and again ... I'm a bit reluctant to installing svn on every system that needs source updates. Are there more lightweight ways? The line above will stay the same. Only the process of downloading the changes will change. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Erich, If there's a more lightweight way than : you have thrown the bait: 1. cd /usr/ports/devel/subversion 2. turning off all options 3. turn on these options: ENHANCED_KEYWORD P4_STYLE_MARKERS STATIC 4. make install 5. Copy the svn as needed. The image should be 4.2MB csup is currently installed by default. Not a single one of the steps shown above are needed at the moment. Can it be more lightweight than zero weight? Then I'd be happy to adopt. You can do. I am very sorry to tell you that the people decided to stop supporting this. erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD?
Hi, On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 09:38:05 +0100 Patrick M. Hausen hau...@punkt.de wrote: Am 03.01.2013 um 19:21 schrieb Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk: On 03/01/2013 17:48, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: I'm a bit reluctant to installing svn on every system that needs source updates. Are there more lightweight ways? freebsd-update(8) which is what 'make update' will run by default and in the absence of any configuration to use other mechanisms. Sorry for being too terse in my first post. Seems like I should have a closer look at freebsd-update. Of course I have lines like this in my /etc/make.conf on each machine that I update from sources: no matter, you showed how deeply this integration was up to the point that you did not notice it anymore. You also showed that there was a reliable infrastructure available which served you for years without any problems. What will happen after the jump into the cold water? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD?
Hi, On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 10:36:59 -0500 Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: On 3 January 2013 02:32, Matthias Andree mand...@freebsd.org wrote: Please do not quote addresses. Not all web archives and copies hide them properly. Hiding email addresses is useless for spam control. Obfuscating them makes it harder to follow a conversation. there is nothing more to say. Regarding versions, please read the relevant information: the relevant decision was made years ago, and the version number you slap at the switch is a moot point. CVS/SVN should be considered a development tool. Users should not see the impact of the switch. In theory. Yes, in theory. A long list [of sites] for CVS is required to overcome load problems. ... Updates are much quicker IMO than they ever were with CVS, even with a local c[v]sup copy of the CVS sources on the same computer. There are latency issues with svn servers only in the US. There is work underway to obtain more mirrors outside the US. So, why not wait until some more mirrors are available? One other problem people in 'developed' nations do not see exists. If - like me - you are located on a very remote location with a more or less random Internet connection, many servers become very impatient with the user and cut the connection as their values for time outs are simply too low. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD?
Hi, On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:48:01 +0100 Patrick M. Hausen hau...@punkt.de wrote: Hello, Am 03.01.2013 um 16:36 schrieb Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com: CVS/SVN should be considered a development tool. Users should not see the impact of the switch. In theory. What is the recommended csup replacement for users that did cd /usr/src make update buildworld buildkernel as their method of keeping the system current? the above's line keeps the originally installed sources intact and just recompiles them again and again and again ... I'm a bit reluctant to installing svn on every system that needs source updates. Are there more lightweight ways? The line above will stay the same. Only the process of downloading the changes will change. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD?
Hi, On Wed, 02 Jan 2013 17:02:11 +0100 Matthias Andree mand...@freebsd.org wrote: Am 02.01.2013 06:31, schrieb Erich Dollansky: Hi, Thank God! I'd hate to think that after unwinding years accumulated CVS process, to rewind it for SVN, only to have to do it again for GIT, just seems a bit masochistic. do not worry. It will come. Seriously, I do not understand many changes especially when there is a system in place which does not affect a running system at all but things inside the OS still could be improved. The migration was made in order to get things inside the OS ... improved at all. Developers were fed up wasting too much time struggling with CVS itself rather than working on the things inside the OS. I hightly doubt that the efforts spent now are worth this. It would have been so much easier and smoother to make the change with 10.0. A normal user does not expect any changes of this kind in a x.1 release. But it also makes one other problem obvious. The ports tree has no version numbers. So, even if the switch would have been made with the 10.0 release, it would have been the same problem for the ports tree. Even today, the handbook states only two sites for SVN and a long list for CVS. Wouldn't it have been a bit more practical to build the infrastructure first and then pull the plug? What will happen to the two SVN servers when no others come up soon? Is the user base so small that two servers are able to handle the traffic? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Does / Is anyone maintaining CVS for FreeBSD?
Hi, Thank God! I'd hate to think that after unwinding years accumulated CVS process, to rewind it for SVN, only to have to do it again for GIT, just seems a bit masochistic. do not worry. It will come. Seriously, I do not understand many changes especially when there is a system in place which does not affect a running system at all but things inside the OS still could be improved. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ask freebsd 9 to stabil
Hi, On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:27:16 +0700 Denny Johannurdin denny336...@gmail.com wrote: dear admin how to make freebsd 9.1 prerelease in to stable you just update the system. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 9.1 and intel graphics
Hi, On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 23:29:28 -0700 Kevin Oberman kob6...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Zoran Kolic zko...@sbb.rs wrote: I always remind folks to blow out the heat sink on laptops about one a year. Dust is a great insulator and laptops often collect a lot more I never did this on a laptop as all of mine where build in a way that dust could not collect. So, it depends very much on the model. dust than office systems, though my office system started dying during buildworld last week and blowing out the CPU heat sink fixed it up, but it had been sitting around for almost three years collecting dust. I do this every year on my desktop. The temperature drops then by 10K. You can use the CPU temperature as an indicator when a cleaning is needed. But blowing does not work on my machine. I really have to take screw driver and tweezers to get the work finally done. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 9.1 and intel graphics
Hi, On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 06:14:08 +0200 Zoran Kolic zko...@sbb.rs wrote: Yesterday I have gotten lenovo e320 laptop, with core i3 2350 and HD3000 integrated. Gonna wait few days till 9.1 release. there shouldn't be many changes between RC2 and the final release version. You can always update later. I never used anything aside intel on my old laptop. Kostik Belousov made a port of kms and I found patches from june and jule on the net. What should I do after 9.1 install in this case? I assume kms is in xorg. Do I have to find and install You should not need the patches anymore for 9.x and 10.x. some driver from intel? Do I need to change xorg.conf after configure flag, that will make conf file? I have had to do but this is some time ago. Finally, what happens when I leave x and want to go back to console mode? It might crashes your system. You are not able to go back to X and you only see a black screen. This is not an error but a feature. Fun aside, this function was not implemented yet. I tried out live RC2 from usb stick. Few acpi errors, intel The ACPI errors might depend on your BIOS. I get an endless number of ACPI errors during running X but they do not show any effect on my machine. 1000 wifi found. After some time sysctl hw.acpi gave me the cpu temperature of 50C. Fan was on. Probably temp gonna go down when I add powerd and cx_lowest to rc.conf on hdd. Is it normal temp for this cpu? 50 degrees? Seems pretty low. My i7 goes up to 96 under full load. As the CPU is made for 100 and I am in the tropics, I do not care much. This should be true for your CPU too. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 9.1 and intel graphics
Hi, On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 05:12:45 -0400 Thomas Mueller muelle...@insightbb.com wrote: Full support for the HD3000 is in 9-stable and 9.1-Beta and all RCs. To use it you need to build X drivers and drm and the kernel with: WITH_NEW_XORG=YES WITH_KMS=YES in /etc/make.conf. Specifically, the kernel and a few ports. graphics/drm and your org-drivers: xf86-video-intel, xf86-input-synaptics, xf86-input-mouse, and xf86-input-keyboard. Then just start X. Don't try loading the kernel module. It will be loaded by the startx. Finally, what happens when I leave x and want to go back to console mode? You don't If you try, your system will lock up. You need to shutdown from a window in X. Hopefully someone will implement switching back to console mode some day, but it has not happened, yet. How do you shutdown from a window in X if you're nonroot? Can you have both root and nonroot windows simultaneously in X? I have all the while. You can also open a normal xterm and enter su to become root or start a xterm as root. It booth works. You are also able to start any other program as root. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 9.1 RELENG_9 Unable to cleanly dismount root partition on shutdown
Hi, On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:12:52 +0100 Matt Smith m...@xtaz.co.uk wrote: On 2012-08-27 10:28, Stefan Bethke wrote: Is there a particular reason you've decided to glabel your partitions instead of using GPT labels? Which device did you do the newfs on, the GPT partition or the glabel device? My hunch is that the label metadata sector at the end of the GPT partition is interfering with the filesystem. I'd try labelling my partitions (gpart modify -i 2 -l root ada0; gpart modify -i 3 -l swap), then change fstab to reference the gpt labels (dev(gpt/root) instead of the glabel ones. No reason at all really. I had just used it like that on a previous MBR based system and it worked fine. I have just booted it using the USB stick again and removed both labels metadata using glabel stop and clear and changed the fstab to use /dev/gpt/ labels now. Unfortunately the same issue persists. It mounted fine, but when I rebooted it it synced all buffers successfully but then gave the same error saying that it couldn't unmount /. I would run plain UFS for / /var and /tmp and see what will happen then. I know what you will answer. But it will help to isolate the problem. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Temperature too high when high overload
Gi, On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:44:59 +0800 Mike Manilone crtm...@gmx.us wrote: I just switched from Fedora Linux to FreeBSD. But I noticed a I did the same on my notebook some time ago. problem, the CPU temperature will be very high when the load is high. It was the same for me while Fedora was running. One of my friends told me, FreeBSD doesn't support your ACPI well but I noticed that while I'm not compiling ports, the temperature will be not too high. This could be true. Just now I'm building LLVM, here's what I've seen: sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 84.5C pkill make sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 67.5C I'm using Dell Vostro 3400 laptop PC with FreeBSD 9.1-RC1. I did not look for the CPU this machine has. My notebook has a i7 and it runs on 96 degree centigrade when the CPU is under 100% load. It would shut down at 99 degree centigrade. uname -a FreeBSD bsd.laptop.mike 9.1-RC1 FreeBSD 9.1-RC1 #0: Tue Aug 14 04:25:06 UTC 2012 r...@farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 There's my dmesg message: http://slexy.org/view/s21b7xTTsu Anyone knows how to fix this problem? Thank you. I do not know much about the differences between i3 and i7 but I would expect that both can run until 99 degree centigrade before they have to shut down. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: unrecognised external drive
Hi, On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:34:37 +0200 Gareth de Vaux b...@lordcow.org wrote: idVendor 0x1058 Western Digital Technologies, Inc. idProduct 0x1042 could it be that the kernel does not know this product? You can check the sources (usbdevs should be the name of the file) and add this ID by copying an entry from another WD product which could be the same. This works some times but also can fail some time. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Keyboard cutting off soon after launching X
Hi, On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 08:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2012, Daniel P. Wright wrote: I am having issues with my keyboard running FreeBSD 9-RELEASE. It is recognised fine by the system and works within the console (outside of X), but within a couple of minutes of X launching it stops working in X. I can still use ctrl-alt-F1 (or whatever) to break back out to the console, and from there can kill X and relaunch. It cuts out within a minute or so every time though, so the computer is pretty much unusable under X. I've seen similar problems on the FreeBSD forums, and tried to follow the advice there, namely: 1) Ensuring the half and dubs daemons are running hald and dbus... 2) Setting [Option AutoAddDevices Off] in xorg.conf This tells X not to use hald. If you window manager/desktop environment does not require hald, not running hald at all might fix the problem. dbus can be kept. AFAIK, xfce is the only desktop environment that doesn't need hald, but all the simpler window managers should be fine. I ran FreeBSD since 8 on this machine but I have had to start finding a new setting for xorg.conf to make X working again after a recent upgrade. Enable moused in rc.conf and the following from xorg.conf helped me this time: # # 24.07.12 ed: we enable the mouse and see what will happen. # Section ServerLayout Identifier X.org Configured Screen 0 Screen0 0 0 InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer # 24.07.12 ed: enabled for 1.7.7 # InputDeviceKeyboard0 CoreKeyboard EndSection Section ServerFlags Option AllowEmptyInput false # 16.07.10 ed: enabled for 1.7.5 # 24.07.12 ed: disabled for 1.7.7 # 16.07.12 ed:setting it to false # freezes X until mouse # moves # Option AutoAddDevicesfalse EndSection I have had to define the mouse as InputDevice and set AllowEmptyInput to false. Just play with these settings and see what happens. Of course, focus on the keyboard and not the mouse as I have had to do. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Keyboard cutting off soon after launching X
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Hi, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2012, Erich Dollansky wrote: Enable moused in rc.conf and the following from xorg.conf helped me this time: Option AllowEmptyInput false # The comment wrap there is very confusing. But please stop using AllowEmptyInput. It was so misused that it has even been removed from later versions of xorg. http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html I have read this before. But what else would you do when the line above solves the problem? There is an interaction with hald and moused that makes it worthwhile lately for some users to run moused from rc.conf. There may be a I wonder why. similar interaction with kbdmux(4) or some other keyboard component for keyboards. hald can be improved greatly by its absence. Isn't this the case on some Linux machines? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Keyboard cutting off soon after launching X
Hi, On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:21:19 +0900 Daniel P. Wright d...@dpwright.com wrote: Thank you all for your replies. I have finally managed to get the machine up and running again -- the problem was not what I expected! like always. 1) Setting AutoAddDevices, etc in xorg.conf 2) Disabling HAL before starting X 3) Recompiling the X server without HAL support and removing hald_enable from rc.conf 4) Running X without an xorg.conf You really put the effort in. I had disabled that briefly in order to do some configuration which required me to close X, but stupidly all I did was comment out the call to startx rather than the whole if statement. As a result tty7 was constantly logging me in and out in the background. This is so cool. I really like it. Do not feel alone in a situation like this. How often did this happen to us before? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: branch 9 and uefi
Hi, On Friday 20 July 2012 17:43:34 Matthew D. Fuller wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 06:08:31PM +0200 I heard the voice of Zoran Kolic, and lo! it spake thus: It took me by surprise. The mobo I have on my mind for new desktop has uefi instead of bios. It is asus m5a97, with 970 chipset, well priced among users on the net. How would it behave with 9.1? I'm running a M5A97 Evo just fine on -CURRENT, and I'd be shocked it it had any problem with 9 (or 8 or 7, for that matter). this could be true. My X220 was also reported to have these problems with 8. But at least 9 booted on mine with UEFi without problems. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: branch 9 and uefi
Hi, let me make it very short. UEFI worked for me during my first installation on a UEFI machine. I moved then to 10 and still have no problems. So, if you really fail, install CURRENT and it will work. Of course you are not running then a release system with all the consequences. Erich On Friday 20 July 2012 11:48:32 Thomas Mueller wrote: from Zoran Kolic zko...@sbb.rs: It took me by surprise. The mobo I have on my mind for new desktop has uefi instead of bios. It is asus m5a97, with 970 chipset, well priced among users on the net. How would it behave with 9.1? After all reading, I plan to boot it as memory stick and go with simple guided install. Someone could comment on the topic? At the moment, I see I have to avoid manual partition and mbr. Or not? If it sounds bad, any other option for motherboard and amd 8120 cpu? G�t Andrفs and...@antiszoc.hu responded: I had a hard time booting FreeBSD 8.2 on an IBM X3550M3 which is also an UEFI maniac one. I could only boot FreeBSD from an USB DVD and install it from there. Maybe some legacy fallback boot options are availabe for this mobo. I think they have its user manual on their website. I installed FreeBSD last summer (2011) on a UEFI system, beginning with 9.0-BETA1 after having big problems with NetBSD. My hard drive is Western Digital Caviar Green 3 TB, practically forcing me to use GPT as opposed to MBR. I was able to boot, and remain able to boot using System Rescue CD (sysresccd.org) and selecting the Super Grub Disk from menus. Then I can boot as described in /usr/ports/sysutils/grub2 , which is where I got that information. You don't say how big your hard drive is, and if you want to run any OS besides FreeBSD. You can go into the guided installer to see what it wants to do but are better off selecting partition sizes outside the guided installer. bsdinstall's boot partition is useful if you run FreeBSD as the only OS on the hard disk, as I have done successfully installing FreeBSD to a USB stick. I was able to boot the FreeBSD installer USB stick using the memstick image, and am able to boot the USB-stick FreeBSD installations I've created. Tom ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: new desktop box
Hi, On Thursday, June 28, 2012 09:00:56 PM Zoran Kolic wrote: Thanks all for reply! The real question is which video card do you want to use? Since I'm not gamer nor do 3d, some silent card will suffice. There are nvidia gp520 and radeon 6450, both with no fan. Also, I always enable powerd and dynamically lower freq to the least I could. More I read, less I know, regarding that future cpu. What about amd fx8120 ? Nex gen will come at Q3, maybe. I am currently also considering an eight core AMD. I have a Athlon X4 620 and I am perfectly happy with it. Next decision might be ssd, instead of hdd. Best reviews are for samsung 830 (of wich 64gb are fine in my case). I plan to install from usb stick and avoid dvd-cd. Also, cannot This is what I do since 8.0. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ?
Hi, On 08 June 2012 13:34:46 Steve Franks wrote: has been running 7.x for years, and shows no sign of giving out. Just keep sticking new HDD's in periodically. For a server that you rarely add new apps to, it's stellar. Mind you, it's probably chock full of security holes due to it's age... 7.4 is supported until beginning of next year. What stops you from keeping it 'current' on the 7 branch? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ULE Scheduler
Hi, On 07 June 2012 10:16:07 Momchil Ivanov wrote: At Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:12:55 +0700, Erich wrote: I've repeated the same experiment just now, setting both processes on both cores with cpuset. The temperature got to about 72-74 C, so the two small pieces of dirt that came out, the fresh thermal liquid and tightening the screws probably gave me 10 about C on idle (from 53 C down to 45 C) and 30 C on full load. I didn't expect that much... this sounds very normal to me. I clean my desktop every two months of operation. A drop of 10K is normal just for blowing the heat sink. The best design of a notebook I every have seen was my old Fujitsu. I used it from 2004 until the beginning of the year without any cleaning and any problems with dirt. After it was dead I disassembled it and did not find any dust blocking anything. Though, it was strange seeing both processes hopping around... I will probably go back to the 4BSD scheduler if my laptop does another self-shutdown in the next few days as Doug suggested. This switch might always help. I did some tests more than a year ago. I left the BSD Scheduler then on the single core Fujitsu notebook mentioned above but used the new one my desktop machine. It will also depend on the software you are running. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, let me rite the answer on top before my mouse scrolling down. I am fully aware of what you are writing. I am saying this from the point of view people have when they start with FreeBSD. This little help would make them feel much much saver. I know that it would not change much in real life. Erich On 06 June 2012 16:45:03 Mark Andrews wrote: In message 1805884.wjzbqif...@x220.ovitrap.com, Erich writes: ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 06 June 2012 8:48:10 Chris Rees wrote: On Jun 6, 2012 3:38 AM, Erich erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: No it doesn't. It states clearly that you shouldn't use tags unless you know what you are doing, as several of us have explained more than once. is my English really this bad? From the handbook: '. In particular, use only tag=. for the ports-* collections.' Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports from a particular date in the past... Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 06 June 2012 17:40:28 Rick Miller wrote: I, for one, appreciate you changing the subject because I didn't know this either and its an important function in my use case where point in time snapshots are important to the architects and ops folks! and it should be mentioned in the hand book. I did not get any response for this on the proper mailing list. On 6/6/12, grenville armitage garmit...@swin.edu.au wrote: In Erich's defense, I'd say his interpretation is quite understandable. ...use only tag=. for the ports-* collections also left me with the distinct impression (some many moons in the past) that there are no other meaningful (or safe) tags when csup'ing the Ports tree. This is why I tried then to get the ports tree from the release by hand or by synchronising with the release and store it. In 12 years of using FreeBSD I've never really sought out Erich's use case (viz. roll back /usr/ports to some past known-good version), I just assumed it wasn't possible. So this thread has taught at least one person (me) a new thing -- I never fully grokked that adding date= to the supfile could achieve this desired result when csup'ing the Ports tree. Now I know, and I've changed the Subject line of this email in the hope it helps some future soul googling for the answer. The real answer would be to put this into the handbook. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ULE Scheduler
Hi, On 07 June 2012 3:01:07 Момчил Иванов wrote: temperature. It was constantly increasing from about 33 C. I took a look at top and saw that both processes were wildly jumping accross the cores, i.e. CPU0 and CPU1. So before reading all the papers about the ULE scheduler and the source code, I would like to as a simple question: is it that stupid? maybe, maybe not. It could be that the difference is minor as the cache for both kernels is in the same chip. I mean, there are just 2 processes running (except of top, X and ... which should be scheduled occasionally) on 2 cores of one physical processor. Why sould each be scheduled on a different core each time? I did cpuset to pin each to a specific core and got to about a constant temperature of 72 C. I am affraid to cpuset -l 0,1 -p ... both of them since I might again get at 100 C. This would be the interesting point? Did it happen because of the dirt or because or the scheduler. Is there some remedy? I think that the only remedy available is the one you applied. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 15:33:16 Mark Andrews wrote: In message 2490439.ec638ti...@x220.ovitrap.com, Erich writes: Hi, On 05 June 2012 12:48:20 Mark Andrews wrote: In message 3506767.fvm2kmt...@x220.ovitrap.com, Erich writes: On 05 June 2012 11:24:25 Mark Andrews wrote: It's already there. If you want the ports as of FreeBSD 4.x EOL then the tag is RELEASE_4_EOL. If you want ports as of FreeBSD 9.0 then the tag is RELEASE_9_9_0. I did not know this. Do you have a link for this? I never read about it. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/cvs-tags.html All of these, with the exception of HEAD (which is always a valid tag), only apply to the src/ tree. The ports/, doc/, and www/ trees are not branched. I understand this that I can use these tags on the FreeBSD sources but not on the ports. I never tried this on the ports. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 1:01:37 Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 12:18:33PM +0700, Erich wrote: I did not know this. Do you have a link for this? I never read about it. The EOL announcements have them. I don't think the release announcements do, however. this is the problem. I would like to be able to go back to the last release in case of a problem and restart from there. When it is possible to tag the EOL, it should be as easy to tag the SOL (start of life). This would save a lot of time for many people. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 1:09:50 Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:00:45PM +0700, Erich wrote: All of these, with the exception of HEAD (which is always a valid tag), only apply to the src/ tree. The ports/, doc/, and www/ trees are not branched. If you create a branch, you must create a tag for that branch. However, you can create a tag without creating a branch. That is what is done for the ports tree. It's not particularly easy to see this on cvsweb. But let's take a look at a random Mk/bsd.*.mk file via 'cvs log': here we are. I never found this. RCS file: /home/FreeBSD/pcvs/ports/Mk/bsd.apache.mk,v Working file: bsd.apache.mk head: 1.36 branch: locks: strict access list: symbolic names: RELEASE_8_3_0: 1.35 RELEASE_9_0_0: 1.33 RELEASE_7_4_0: 1.26 RELEASE_8_2_0: 1.26 RELEASE_6_EOL: 1.26 [...] RELEASE_6_1_0: 1.9 RELEASE_5_5_0: 1.9 If this list would make it into the documentation, all I asked would be already there. I could write this but my English will need some corrections. If you could give a link to how to do this properly, I would do it then. But is this true for apache only or for the whole ports tree? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 1:09:50 Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:00:45PM +0700, Erich wrote: All of these, with the exception of HEAD (which is always a valid tag), only apply to the src/ tree. The ports/, doc/, and www/ trees are not branched. If you create a branch, you must create a tag for that branch. However, you can create a tag without creating a branch. That is what is done for the ports tree. I found now the location where this information is missing for beginners. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports-using.html I simply cannot believe that beginners would expect this information to find this in the section for updating the kernel. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 1:09:50 Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:00:45PM +0700, Erich wrote: All of these, with the exception of HEAD (which is always a valid tag), only apply to the src/ tree. The ports/, doc/, and www/ trees are not branched. If you create a branch, you must create a tag for that branch. However, you can create a tag without creating a branch. That is what is done for the ports tree. I found now the point in which all normal users will give up: The handbook states this: Which version(s) of them do you want? 'With CVSup, you can receive virtually any version of the sources that ever existed. That is possible because the cvsupd server works directly from the CVS repository, which contains all of the versions. You specify which one of them you want using the tag= and date= value fields. Warning: Be very careful to specify any tag= fields correctly. Some tags are valid only for certain collections of files. If you specify an incorrect or misspelled tag, CVSup will delete files which you probably do not want deleted. In particular, use only tag=. for the ports-* collections.' Why should a normal user continue to search for a tag when the handbook is so clear on this? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 7:13:47 Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 03:23:01PM +0700, Erich wrote: But is this true for apache only or for the whole ports tree? Entire tree. my problem with this is that the documentation states something very different: From the handbook at the location where beginners will look for it: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/cvsup.html 'Which version(s) of them do you want? With CVSup, you can receive virtually any version of the sources that ever existed. That is possible because the cvsupd server works directly from the CVS repository, which contains all of the versions. You specify which one of them you want using the tag= and date= value fields. Warning: Be very careful to specify any tag= fields correctly. Some tags are valid only for certain collections of files. If you specify an incorrect or misspelled tag, CVSup will delete files which you probably do not want deleted. In particular, use only tag=. for the ports-* collections.' I think that this states very clearly that there are no tags. So, after we learned that every thing I am asking is there anyway in an official and supported way, only the documentation has to be changed. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 06 June 2012 0:42:47 Mark Andrews wrote: In message 1541214.zfrdxxb...@x220.ovitrap.com, Erich writes: Hi, On 05 June 2012 1:09:50 Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:00:45PM +0700, Erich wrote: All of these, with the exception of HEAD (which is always a valid tag), only apply to the src/ tree. The ports/, doc/, and www/ trees are not branched. If you create a branch, you must create a tag for that branch. However, you can create a tag without creating a branch. That is what is done for the ports tree. I found now the location where this information is missing for beginners. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports-using.html I simply cannot believe that beginners would expect this information to find this in the section for updating the kernel. Erich Because, while you believe it is better to roll back to the release point it really isn't. The ports tree is rarely broken for long. When it is broken people will tell you to roll back to a good date and give you the date to use. I've had to roll back a couple of times in 11+ years of updating and never to a release point. What is there is good advice. Use a up-to-date ports tree. If it is broken wait a days or so and try again. If it is still broken report the problem using send-pr. you will find thousands of notes that people should not run bleeding edge when it comes to the kernel. But people are forced to run bleeding edge on the ports. The documentation than even states that there is no fall back. You state it as being just normal to wait for a week or more until the problem is solved. I cannot imagine that people who come to FreeBSD and get trapped somehow will stick to it then. They might will ask on this list just to learn that there is no help available. Just wait. People who have to make decisions what operating system should be used on their workplaces will not like this and stick with whatever they have. I believe that this is a very good user repellent. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 04 June 2012 17:24:31 Baptiste Daroussin wrote: On Sun, Jun 03, 2012 at 10:55:37PM +0200, O. Hartmann wrote: On 06/03/12 15:29, Erich wrote: And if a port build is broken then the maintainer needs to fix it, that is the solution. Look at the comment of the maintainer of LibreOffice ... LibreOffice is not a small port, I managed to make 3.5.x work until the The work on it is not that complicated but it requires a huge amount of time which I currently don't have, and upstream is really nice to help porting. I hope that this is all just a misunderstanding. I read the tread as such that LibreOffice is just an example of what can go wrong. Of course, it is your time and your work and nobody has the right to criticise you for your efforts. I hope that it is ok for you to use 'your' port as an example here for what can go wrong. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
On 04 June 2012 16:24:56 Chris Rees wrote: On 3 June 2012 21:55, O. Hartmann ohart...@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote: On 06/03/12 15:29, Erich wrote: Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 5:14:10 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 11:14, Erich wrote: What I really do not understand in this whole discussion is very simple. Is it just a few people who run into problems like this or is this simply ignored by the people who set the strategy for FreeBSD? I mention since yeares here that putting version numbers onto the port tree would solve many of these problems. All I get as an answer is that it is not possible. I think that this should be easily possible with the limitation that older versions do not have security fixes. Yes, but of what help is a security fix if there is no running port for the fix? I feel like I'm missing something. Why would you ever want to go back to an old version of the ports tree? You're ignoring tons of security issues! ... I think the PNG update isn't a security issue. And for not being a security issue, it triggered an inadequate mess! And if a port build is broken then the maintainer needs to fix it, that is the solution. Look at the comment of the maintainer of LibreOffice ... I must be missing something else here, it just seems like the underlying need for this is misguided (and dangerous from a security perspective). yes, you miss a very simple thing. Updated this morning your ports tree. Your client asks for something for Monday morning for which you need now a program which needs some kind of PNG but you did not install it. ... I spent now two complete days watching my boxes updating their ports. Several ports do not compile anymore (inkscape, libreoffice, libxul, to name some of the very hurting ones!). Do you have a machine that is fast enough to upgrade all your ports and still finish what your client needs Monday morning? Even my fastest box, a brand new 6 core Sandy-Bridge-E, wasn't capable of compiling all the ports in due time. Several ports requested attendance, several, as mentioned, didn't compile out of the blue. The ports tree is not broken as such. Only the installation gets broken in some sense. Have a version number there would allow people to go back to the last known working ports tree, install the software - or whatever has to be done - with a working system. Of course, the next step will be an upgrade. But only after the work which brings in the money is done. You do not face this problem on Windows. You can run a 10 year old 'kernel' and still install modern software. Erich I like having a very modern system with the most recent software. But in some cases, like these days with the PNG, FreeBSD's ports becomes again a problem. There is no convenient way to downgrade or allow the user/admin managing how to deal with the load of updates. You can't have both. As has been repeatedly explained to you, you should not expect an easy life with the very latest of software. but FreeBSD only offer bleeding edge. This is why I suggest to have version numbers on the ports tree. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 11:24:25 Mark Andrews wrote: Version tagging is just a convient way to get a snapshot at a particular point in time unless you create branches that are them we do not ask for more. There should be only one difference to a snapshot. As snapshot has a date. No matter in what state the ports tree was, it is in that state in the ports tree. If user - especially the one not so fit in this aspect - want to use a snapshot, it will be difficult to impossible to figure out which one they need. If version numbers would be introduced, it would be ok to use the version number of the FreeBSD and have only version available which reflect the release version of the ports tree. People here want to make always a perfect system. People like me want to have some small things in there available with a click. As the ports trees are there anyway, only the direct link to the snapshot of that day or a version number in the ports tree would be needed to make this available for people who just want to use FreeBSD. Please note, I do not want any extra work spend here to make this perfect. I only want a simple way to fall back to a big net which is not that old from which the user can restart. You can add a huge note to the links stating the risks. This is all fine. There is another reason why I ask for this. I noticed a long time ago that the ports are in a better shape around the release date of a new version. So, I try to get it always around the release dates. But, some times - you know how life is - I miss this date. It does not kill me but it leads some times to extra work steps I can do but I see the problems people will face who know FreeBSD not that well. One doesn't have to live at the bleeding edge with ports if one doesn't want to even when compiling. One can live a day, a week, a month behind the bleeding edge and allow other to hit problems and report them. How is this done with the knowledge of a beginner? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 05 June 2012 12:48:20 Mark Andrews wrote: In message 3506767.fvm2kmt...@x220.ovitrap.com, Erich writes: On 05 June 2012 11:24:25 Mark Andrews wrote: It's already there. If you want the ports as of FreeBSD 4.x EOL then the tag is RELEASE_4_EOL. If you want ports as of FreeBSD 9.0 then the tag is RELEASE_9_9_0. I did not know this. Do you have a link for this? I never read about it. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 AM 9:15:14 Chris Rees wrote: On Jun 3, 2012 5:26 AM, Erich erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 2:56:01 Chris Nehren wrote: On Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 14:11:06 -0400 , Paul Mather wrote: I'm not sure what the solution is for the end user. I know I get somewhat leery of updating my ports if I see a large number of changes coming via portsnap (like the 4000+ that accompanied the recent libpng upgrade) and there is nothing new in UPDATING (which, happily wasn't the case with the libpng upgrade). Usually, I wait a while for the dust to clear and an UPDATING entry potentially to appear. If you're concerned about things breaking, don't follow the bleeding edge. This seems to be common sense. is there a second version of the ports tree available? What is the response of the list if you want to install a new package with you old ports tree? The response is Don't ask for support if you do that, I'm afraid. No major OS I can think of allows you to mix and match like that (though I could be wrong). it is new to me that Microsoft asks for a Windows update when a new Office version appears at the scene. Microsoft also does not ask to update all other applications before the latest Office can be installed. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ?
people are judging how fit an FreeBSD is for server work by how easy/Mac/Windows/whatever like (as many Linux distros try to emulate) it is to update. Not good ... but it makes sense from a social/human perspective, and is probably another thing we should consider in terms of advocacy. YYYEES You got the point. This is all we are talking about. You found the proper words for it. All other users of FreeBSD do not have a problem with these little things. You have written your script, I have written my script. You know what knob to turn, I know what knob to turn. But the newcomer who wants to do some for the first time gets easily stuck here. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 5:14:10 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 11:14, Erich wrote: What I really do not understand in this whole discussion is very simple. Is it just a few people who run into problems like this or is this simply ignored by the people who set the strategy for FreeBSD? I mention since yeares here that putting version numbers onto the port tree would solve many of these problems. All I get as an answer is that it is not possible. I think that this should be easily possible with the limitation that older versions do not have security fixes. Yes, but of what help is a security fix if there is no running port for the fix? I feel like I'm missing something. Why would you ever want to go back to an old version of the ports tree? You're ignoring tons of security issues! And if a port build is broken then the maintainer needs to fix it, that is the solution. I must be missing something else here, it just seems like the underlying need for this is misguided (and dangerous from a security perspective). yes, you miss a very simple thing. Updated this morning your ports tree. Your client asks for something for Monday morning for which you need now a program which needs some kind of PNG but you did not install it. Do you have a machine that is fast enough to upgrade all your ports and still finish what your client needs Monday morning? The ports tree is not broken as such. Only the installation gets broken in some sense. Have a version number there would allow people to go back to the last known working ports tree, install the software - or whatever has to be done - with a working system. Of course, the next step will be an upgrade. But only after the work which brings in the money is done. You do not face this problem on Windows. You can run a 10 year old 'kernel' and still install modern software. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 5:14:10 Adam Strohl wrote: On 6/3/2012 11:14, Erich wrote: What I really do not understand in this whole discussion is very simple. Is it just a few people who run into problems like this or is this simply ignored by the people who set the strategy for FreeBSD? I mention since yeares here that putting version numbers onto the port tree would solve many of these problems. All I get as an answer is that it is not possible. I think that this should be easily possible with the limitation that older versions do not have security fixes. Yes, but of what help is a security fix if there is no running port for the fix? I feel like I'm missing something. Why would you ever want to go back to an old version of the ports tree? You're ignoring tons of security issues! And if a port build is broken then the maintainer needs to fix it, that is the solution. I must be missing something else here, it just seems like the underlying need for this is misguided (and dangerous from a security perspective). yes, you miss a very simple thing. Updated this morning your ports tree. Your client asks for something for Monday morning for which you need now a program which needs some kind of PNG but you did not install it. Do you have a machine that is fast enough to upgrade all your ports and still finish what your client needs Monday morning? The ports tree is not broken as such. Only the installation gets broken in some sense. Have a version number there would allow people to go back to the last known working ports tree, install the software - or whatever has to be done - with a working system. Of course, the next step will be an upgrade. But only after the work which brings in the money is done. You do not face this problem on Windows. You can run a 10 year old 'kernel' and still install modern software. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 AM 6:12:38 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Adam Strohl adams-free...@ateamsystems.comwrote: On 6/3/2012 17:51, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: Linux : ( Fedora , Mandriva , Mageia , and many others ) Wonderful . I can are you talking about the Fedora I have installed here? not think any other choice other than LInux to suggest to ONLY a user which he/she will install and use the system . I am not so sure if this will work. At least not on my machine. I did a standard install as I expect to replace this installation with FreeBSD when I have a bit more time at hand. I noticed meanwhile two problems which are show stoppers for normal users. After the notebook was put to sleep, it was literally put to sleep, at least partially. I could not fire out what was wrong as the user interface still worked. I got many error messages that writes to sockets failed. So, I assume writing to sockets died. The next thing are updates. After downloading some 600MB of updates via the GUI tool, I could not install a single package with it anymore. I have had to go to the console and use yum install to get things installed. If a user manages this, the same user will manage FreeBSD too. If a user does not manage this, Windows will be back on the machine. Please , do NOT forget that server installers and maintainers are computer professionals having sufficient training to work on such a job . Yeah, FreeBSD is also very easy for me to handle. For my wife? No, she complains then that this was working under Windows even when she never saw it working under Windows. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 3:19:14 Doug Barton wrote: On 06/03/2012 05:43, Erich wrote: it is new to me that Microsoft asks for a Windows update when a new Office version appears at the scene. Actually it's very common for Windows applications to specify a minimum OS service pack level. To stretch the analogy a bit, you're also not going to find any modern Windows application that will run on Windows 98, for example. can you still install the ports tree and its applications on a FreeBSD 4.4? Microsoft also does not ask to update all other applications before the latest Office can be installed. I commonly get prompted to update the .Net I have installed, and/or to install a newer version altogether when installing the latest and greatest Windows applications. I am not one of the unlucky Windows users. I only see many XP machines at the client side running the latest Office applications. By the concept of FreeBSD, .Net can be compare with Mono and is as such in the ports tree. As with all things computery, your mileage may vary. Especially with low octane fuel. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 30 May 2012 PM 7:20:31 David Chisnall wrote: This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users. I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD. If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick? Are they the same as when you first started using it? one thing which cannot be stressed enough is the responsiveness of FreeBSD under all load conditions. I am surprised how slow Fedora feels occasionally. FreeBSD does not show this behaviour until the load average is double the number of CPUs in a system. I also noticed meanwhile that another big advantage of FreeBSD is the fact they it does not even try to give you the feeling that all is possible with just a click without being able to work on the low level. Fedora gives you this feeling but makes you feel totally lost when the click does not work. This leads to the clear structure of FreeBSD and its configuration. There are not several different systems which might even change from release to release. It is just /etc/. The clear separation of the base system and the applications (ports) is another clear advantage. I would not like to see things which are happening now with Fedora 17 happening with FreeBSD. As I have said before, the only real reason for me not to use FreeBSD on a machine is hardware support. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 03 June 2012 PM 8:45:59 Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote: On the other hand Ubuntu recently switched their Window manager, and I hated it on their early versions. They also offered gnome3, and it just wasn't working. So I dare not go beyond Ubuntu 10.04, and I fear the day 10.04 becomes EOL. while Ubuntu is certified to run on my laptop, it doesn't do so. So, I installed Fedora and it works. This might be an escape route for you if things go real bad. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 AM 9:14:28 Chris Rees wrote: On Jun 2, 2012 4:04 AM, Erich Dollansky er...@alogreentechnologies.com wrote: But I have to mention one disadvantage. The ports are in no way linked to the releases. This leads to situations in which a small change in a basic library will result in a complete update of the installed ports. I expressed this already many time here. It would be of advantage if the ports tree would also have tags like the base system itself. Unfortunately this is a massive amount of extra work - we only just keep up with updates as it is. I do not think so. At least not for the first step as I see it. Just make snapshots of the ports tree when the release comes out. These snapshots are with the releases anyway. What I did was very simple. I got the ports tree that comes with the release and installed the system back to the release status. Ok, it was some work for me - maybe not for others - to find this tree. A simple link could help here. I do not know if this is just an opinion which is too optimistic. What I know is that all the security fixes which appeared since the release are not in there. If I have the choice between three days or more of compiling and known security holes, I will take the security holes, make the client happy and upgrade after the work for the client is finished. I would not expect that FreeBSD will provide more than this. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 AM 11:39:16 David Chisnall wrote: On 2 Jun 2012, at 03:56, Erich Dollansky wrote: But I have to mention one disadvantage. The ports are in no way linked to the releases. This leads to situations in which a small change in a basic library will result in a complete update of the installed ports. I expressed this already many time here. It would be of advantage if the ports tree would also have tags like the base system itself. OpenBSD did this for a while, but they gave up because they weren't doing it well enough to recommend it and it did more harm to users to do it badly than not at all. Ideally, you want to get security fixes for all installed applications, but nothing else, in this model. There are two ways of doing this: I would even accept to get the 'release' ports tree without security fixes just to have a system which is up and running fast after I tried an upgrade like what is happening at the moment with PNG dependent ports. As situations like this are rarely needed, I would not push for a fully secured system. Do not see it too complicated what I want. It is really just a system I can fall back at the spot if things got complicated with with a csup the new ports tree just to get something installed. A user who really wants to run a totally outdated system should know what he/she is doing and not complain when things go wrong. - Back-port security fixes to the version shipped with the base system - Import the security-fixed version into the stable set. The second option has the problem that you identified: if the new version depends on a newer library, then this cascades and you end up needing to import a new version of hundreds of ports. The first option has a much simpler disadvantage: it requires a huge amount of manpower. Companies like Red Hat can do this because they charge their users a lot for this service. We could probably do this if we had enough users willing to pay for the service, or if we restrict it to a set of packages that do their own security backports upstream. The problem with the second option can be alleviated if we make it easier to have multiple versions of libraries installed at the same time (this is something that the PBI system in PC-BSD does, albeit in an ugly hackish way that could be improved significantly with a bit of assistance from rtld). This would be ideal anyway and also most likely avoid the cause for going back. Just keep both versions in the system and let the system decide which one to use. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 12:04:26 David Chisnall wrote: On 2 Jun 2012, at 12:01, Erich wrote: I would even accept to get the 'release' ports tree without security fixes just to have a system which is up and running fast after I tried an upgrade like what is happening at the moment with PNG dependent ports. You have this already. Just install the ports tree snapshot from the release... I know. I just what I would like to get is a direct method also people who are just basic users can use it without many problems. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 12:50:16 David Chisnall wrote: On 2 Jun 2012, at 12:19, Erich wrote: Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 12:04:26 David Chisnall wrote: On 2 Jun 2012, at 12:01, Erich wrote: I would even accept to get the 'release' ports tree without security fixes just to have a system which is up and running fast after I tried an upgrade like what is happening at the moment with PNG dependent ports. You have this already. Just install the ports tree snapshot from the release... I know. I just what I would like to get is a direct method also people who are just basic users can use it without many problems. Run sysinstall, point it at the release CD / DVD, say 'install ports tree'... how old will the last tree then be? All I want to suggest that this can be downloaded directly via the Internet. Encouraging basic users to run insecure versions of applications, however, is something that I would strongly object to. What will a new user do when faced with this situation? Just go back to what ever system was installed before and keep the fingers off FreeBSD as it seemed too difficult to find a solution for a small problem. It is like selling sharp knifes. There will be always the risk that people will get killed by the knife. But there are still sharp knifes available in shops. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 2:53:48 Daniel Kalchev wrote: You don't have to use the (arguable old) 'release' ports tree. Ports get fixed/adapted for the new version usually months after release. I think we are talking here about two totally different problems. Your hint with sysinstall would do the same when the CD is available. Very, very simple and only for things went wrong. You are thinking of a much more complex solution. I know that the ports tree is a moving target. But it stops moving during the release period. This could be used to give a fall back solution. Or do I see this really too simple? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 3:47:27 Daniel Kalchev wrote: On 02.06.12 15:32, Erich wrote: I know that the ports tree is a moving target. But it stops moving during the release period. This could be used to give a fall back solution. Or do I see this really too simple? The ports tree is a moving target during release periods still, although there are efforts to make movements smaller. This is why, after a release it suddenly moves more :) I know. I save me as many versions as possible during a release just as a fall back. I did not do this before and got hit several times when I believed that all I need is the installation of a small program. Anyway, the team knows the version of the tree used for the release they are working on. Making this ports tree easily available could help to overcome some problems. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 4:07:23 Alexander Yerenkow wrote: I'll try to be short. I'm using FreeBSD both at servers and as a desktop, but I see struggling of my friends with it in some things. 1. Ports mess. You can very easily render system unusable, or broken if you trying to use latest ports. And then you had to became a port master to fix all. Of course you need a lot of free time, right? :) this seems to be ignored. I have just a small discussion in the thread Why are you using FreeBSD about this. It would be already a step forward to help people out of this fix when the ports tree of release would be easily available. 2. No decent packet manager (I hope pkgng will make life easier). You can't just upgrade this and that packet and see what's new, and rollback if you don't like somthing . I really hope this will never come. Why? It will kill make install. Make install is the key to FreeBSD. I believe a better solution would be versioning of the ports tree. When the ports tree compiles fully, it can be saved and its version number incremented. I do not believe that much more would be needed. Of course, we have then a huge number of versions. Would it matter? Give the ports tree the major version number of the latest release. So, at the moment it would be 10. Increment then the minor every hour if you want. Just make sure that the ports tree can be downloaded for some time under this version number. 3. FreeBSD is not a linux - so FreeBSD avoid linuxisms, like KMS etc. And when it became crystal clear that progress is inevitable, we need wait few more years to get new graphics working. Some time ago, I read somewhere on wiki proud phrase We are more linux than linux itself, it was about LSB test or something similar. FreeBSD can deny linux ways, but it's here, and it's widespread standard (at least in comparing with FreeBSD). FreeBSD do really need those fancy new techs, at least which related to X/hardware. XEN is one more thing, which could be attractive, but there's not much progress. I don't say let's rewrite all as in linux. I'm saying about having copatibility layer a bit fresher. Have you ever worked with Linux? They have so many new features which are pushed like crazy until they are forgotten again. But I agree. Something can be done about X. 5. Name public person behind Microsoft? yes, there are one. And from Google? And from Oracle? And from GNU? And from Linux? Human nature is such that any company/big product is replaced in his mind with person, at least partially. And there's no person behind FreeBSD. There are many collaborators, who rarely well known in world as FreeBSD developer. And this is how it's affect reality: I think that there is a big misunderstanding in this when it comes to Linux. Yes, there is one guy but he does not have the money. Others have the money. - Please, big boss, give me 10mil for new cluster system run on Linux. - What's Linux? - It's product developed for 20 years by Linus, and in recent years got support by many major world companies (long list goes here). It was the luck of Linus that he used GPL and somebody announced an OS but did not have a kernel. P.S. Of course FreeBSD is great, and I'm using it, and I glad that it here, and all developers are awesome, no offence here ;) It is also the question if this would make sense in the spirit of FreeBSD. I have to run Fedora on one machine. The fast development there comes with a price. I installed Fedora and the applications I needed before I started to travel. I have had the chance to upgrade after 2 weeks. Hey, this was like Windows. Fedora downloaded more than 600 MB after just two weeks. I know, it can be even worse on FreeBSD when things like jpeg or png change. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 4:18:45 O. Hartmann wrote: On 06/02/12 14:47, Daniel Kalchev wrote: On 02.06.12 15:32, Erich wrote: I know that the ports tree is a moving target. But it stops moving during the release period. This could be used to give a fall back solution. Or do I see this really too simple? The ports tree is a moving target during release periods still, although there are efforts to make movements smaller. This is why, after a release it suddenly moves more :) Daniel Even IF the ports tree IS a moving target, updating of UPDATING, for instance, follows most times AFTER the critical ports has been changed/updated and folks started updating their ports without realizing that they have shot themselfs into the foot! it is worse when people suddenly need something they did not install before. Since I'm with FreeBSD, StarOffice, OpenOffice and even now LibreOffice is a MESS! If you need to keep up with STABLE, in most cases due to StarOffice a mess? Not compared to OpenOffice! I cannot remember that I have had such problems with StarOffice. As I used StarOffice to write cheques those days, people getting money from me would have made a lot of noise. I stopped doing this when OpenOffice came into the picture. modern hardware (*), binary packages are NOT provided or if so, they won't work due to some incompatibilities. Isn't the lack of a binary package the proof that something is difficult to compile? I witnessed those cases several times and at this moment, our four remaining FreeBSD servers and my personal desktop as well as my private box are rendered unusable in terms of having no LibreOffice since it doesn't compile anymore on FreeBSD 9-STABLE/amd64 and 10-CURRENT/amd64. Can I recommend jails to you? I compile ports in a jail. When everything went through, I move this outside and install it. If something does not compile, I keep normally the old ports tree. This is the main cause why I run the in serious problems when I need a new port which needs an update of the ports tree. At the moment, this mess is introduced with a new PNG library. And we are updating on life machines, that means, they are not freshly Have fun with it. I have a running FreeBSD and will not touch the ports tree before this all has settled. installed, they have been maintained for several months now. Very often, when compalining about this, I get responses from people installing then the critical software in a virtual machine and/or on newly setup boxes. That doesn't reflect the way the systems have to be maintained. This gets even more complicated. Try once to install a new machine, bring an old machine to the same state and then install on the new machine the same software which actually runs on the old one. This is something which I never managed. There is always something missing. Well, one may argue with me about server and desktop. Comparing Linux (several distros) with FreeBSd and Windows makes the limited adavntages of FreeBSD getting rendered neglegible. We need PowerPoint or a similar office product for presentations, I'm getting strangled by students when using LaTeX and beamer or PowerDot. The pressure from the Windows world is large. You forgot to mention Scribus. It is a fantastic tool for people who know how to handle it. But your are cut off if you cannot read the files coming from other people. Just for the fun. If you get Microsoft-Formats from a client and send it then back to the same client but in a different department, it is not sure that they can read their 'own' files. (*) It might be true that FreeBSD runs well on older hardware. But when I order hardware from the budget I get, I do not want myself buying outdated hardware. FreeBSD runs also well on new hardware if it is not a notebook. What I really do not understand in this whole discussion is very simple. Is it just a few people who run into problems like this or is this simply ignored by the people who set the strategy for FreeBSD? I mention since yeares here that putting version numbers onto the port tree would solve many of these problems. All I get as an answer is that it is not possible. I think that this should be easily possible with the limitation that older versions do not have security fixes. Yes, but of what help is a security fix if there is no running port for the fix? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 2:56:01 Chris Nehren wrote: On Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 14:11:06 -0400 , Paul Mather wrote: I'm not sure what the solution is for the end user. I know I get somewhat leery of updating my ports if I see a large number of changes coming via portsnap (like the 4000+ that accompanied the recent libpng upgrade) and there is nothing new in UPDATING (which, happily wasn't the case with the libpng upgrade). Usually, I wait a while for the dust to clear and an UPDATING entry potentially to appear. If you're concerned about things breaking, don't follow the bleeding edge. This seems to be common sense. is there a second version of the ports tree available? What is the response of the list if you want to install a new package with you old ports tree? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 9:50:22 Kurt Jaeger wrote: Hi! The point he made was actually not a matter of people not reading UPDATING but that UPDATING is oftentimes not updated until after the disruptive/potentially dangerous change has already hit the ports tree. I'm not sure what the solution is for the end user. We have our reference hosts, do daily portupgrades and on those days where all looks fine, pkg_create the whole collection and pkg_delete/pkg_add to production hosts. Still not perfect, but 'good enough'. isn't this what I just suggested to be done by the team? Give the ports tree a new version number and people can fall back to this then. Isn't this solution too simple to be done? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 02 June 2012 PM 10:52:48 Chris Rees wrote: On 2 June 2012 10:42, Erich Dollansky er...@alogreentechnologies.com wrote: On 02 June 2012 AM 9:14:28 Chris Rees wrote: On Jun 2, 2012 4:04 AM, Erich Dollansky er...@alogreentechnologies.com wrote: But I have to mention one disadvantage. The ports are in no way linked to the releases. This leads to situations in which a small change in a basic library will result in a complete update of the installed ports. I expressed this already many time here. It would be of advantage if the ports tree would also have tags like the base system itself. Unfortunately this is a massive amount of extra work - we only just keep up with updates as it is. I do not think so. At least not for the first step as I see it. Just make snapshots of the ports tree when the release comes out. These snapshots are with the releases anyway. What I did was very simple. I got the ports tree that comes with the release and installed the system back to the release status. Ok, it was some work for me - maybe not for others - to find this tree. A simple link could help here. I do not know if this is just an opinion which is too optimistic. What I know is that all the security fixes which appeared since the release are not in there. If I have the choice between three days or more of compiling and known security holes, I will take the security holes, make the client happy and upgrade after the work for the client is finished. I would not expect that FreeBSD will provide more than this. Then you already have all you need-- RELEASEs use packages compiled at time of release if you use pkg_add -r, and the ports tree is tagged at release if you wish to get a 'snapshot'. I have it. Yes, but how difficult is this to get for others? Note that you will not get any official support if you choose to use a tagged tree :) When you can chose between a running system and a supported system which does not work, which would you take? Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?
Hi, On 30 May 2012 PM 7:20:31 David Chisnall wrote: This is off-topic, so please feel free to disregard it, but I'm sending it to this list in the hope that it will reach a largish number of users. I am currently looking at updating some of our advocacy material (which advertises exciting new features like SMP support), and before I do I'd like to get a better feel for why the rest of you are using FreeBSD. If you had to list the three things you most like about FreeBSD, which would you pick? Are they the same as when you first started using it? I must say that it is a long time ago when I sat at the first BSD machine. The most important feature is the configuration and the update procedure. Things rarely change in a way that users have to relearn. It is also important that it is possible to use a machine and upgrade it only every six or twelve months without facing fundamental problems. What helps there that the user can define a branch (8.x or 9.x) and stick with it as long it is supported. The users are not forced to move to the next version which might introduces some changes the user is not used to it. This allows users to skip one main branch. While it is possible to stick with 8 until 10 is released, it is also possible to move to 9 or even 10. Sticking with 8 reduces the risk to get caught with some problems during the upgrade by some 50% But I have to mention one disadvantage. The ports are in no way linked to the releases. This leads to situations in which a small change in a basic library will result in a complete update of the installed ports. I expressed this already many time here. It would be of advantage if the ports tree would also have tags like the base system itself. I use a simple trick. I update the ports tree mainly when it is frozen due to a new FreeBSD release. I believe that it is hard to express the other reasons for using FreeBSD in a world in which users take is as god given that an operating system fails or forces them to reinstall over and over again. Erich ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
