Re: [Freedos-user] GridPad 1910
from dmccunney: See http://oldcomputers.net/gridpad.html But since it came with MSDOS 3.3 built in, the question is why you would need FreeDOS. Thanks for the link, it was interesting out of curiosity, but of course nobody would pay $2370 nowadays for something like that. Tablet sounded like something modern, but otherwise the description looked like something long past its time. Now I wonder if the flash cards, 256 MB or 512 MB, could be read on a modern computer with a media reader as a compact flash or SD card? Tom -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] GridPad 1910
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 4:51 AM, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote: from dmccunney: See http://oldcomputers.net/gridpad.html But since it came with MSDOS 3.3 built in, the question is why you would need FreeDOS. Thanks for the link, it was interesting out of curiosity, but of course nobody would pay $2370 nowadays for something like that. Nowadays, no. When it was released it was another matter. Back when the original IBM PC was first taking over corporate desktops as an engine to run Lotus 1,2,3, prices were in that range. Tablet sounded like something modern, but otherwise the description looked like something long past its time. It's a tablet form factor, with a stylus for input. It's an early pen computing device. Now I wonder if the flash cards, 256 MB or 512 MB, could be read on a modern computer with a media reader as a compact flash or SD card? I have an all-in-one USB reader that handles Compact Flash, MMC, Memory Stick and Compact Flash cards. Assuming it *is* the Compact Flash format used by the cards for this, they are certainly still readable. They were formatted as FAT16, and I still have a 256MB CF card originally used in a Handspring Visor PDA as external storage with a third party adapter. I could successfully read it and transfer data off of it. Another FreeDOS list member has a PC that replaced the original HD with a CF card, for a gratifying speed boost. Current SSDs are not a new concept. Tom __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size
FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a separate category. Mateusz, I am a fan of your FNDPKG system and I use it in Real FreeDOS Mode. I have customized the all_cd to work perfectly on my various computers (Compaq Armada 1700 1750 laptops, HP Elite 8000, Compaq D510, HP DC5700), so I must disagree. While six (or seven if you included setedit) does not constitute a large repository, if one desires (or needs) to learn two or three of these editors to fit one's needs then the edit repo is, IMHO justified (not to mention that there would be less confusion to the end-user; I can think of several util packages that should be in the base repo). On the other hand if there were one editor such as your own Saucy (or FD edit) that were capable of opening a text file of the entire Bible without hanging (which MS-DOS edit can do) then the edit category might not be necessary as a separate repo. So why so many editors? FreeDOS EDIT works on 8086, if you can find any of those in your museum. It is also a demo use for a nice user interface toolkit, which you could also use to program other tools. It has a calendar and an ASCII table. Just a nice small multi-file text editor as default FreeDOS editor :-) But what IS the maximum file size in MS DOS EDIT? I have tested it on the largest text file which I have and that is my current project: a translation of the bible which is 4.3mb and it works fine and doesn't hang. On the FreeDOS web page, the description of FreeDOS edit is: FreeDOS improved clone of MS-DOS Edit and sadly, this is simply not true. While it is the go to editor for batch files and FDCONFIG, I could not recommend it as a drop-in replacement for MS-DOS EDIT. I LOVE FreeDOS and wish it to succeed into the next decade at least; and this is my point, I use FreeDOS in real mode, as if it were an alternate operating system. I am an actual (registered) user of the DOS programs that were the ultimate programs of the DOS age: Lotus 123, dBase WordPerfect. Besides these, I also use on a daily basis Online Bible, Alpha Four and Mpxplay. There is only one program that I own that currently does not work in FreeDOS (a tsr dictionary - but I use another which is almost as good). I don't know what the plan is going forward. I suppose that FreeDOS is good enough as it is, but it would be way cool if it could be better - better than the illegal but much downloaded MS-DOS 7.10. On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote: On 13/03/2015 17:59, Don Flowers wrote: Is there a reason the edit category is not included in the fdnpkg install program or the all_cd iso? Actually FreeDOS categories do not translate directly into FDNPKG repositories. FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a separate category: blocek 1.4 - A graphical text editor with unicode and pictures formats support elvis 2.2 - a clone of vi/ex, the standard UNIX editor. Supports nearly all vi/ex commands fed 2.24 - A folding text editor with color syntax highlighting and more mbedit 8.64 - mbedit is a full screen text editor with macro option, online calculator, command history buffer, hex editor a msedit 0.11 - Mateusz' Saucy Editor pico 3.96 - simple text editor in the style of the Pine Composer tde 5.1v - TDE is a simple, public domain, multi-file/multi-window binary and text file editor written for IBM PCs and close Setedit is not present there (package contributions welcome!) cheers, Mateusz -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size
On 13/03/2015 17:59, Don Flowers wrote: Is there a reason the edit category is not included in the fdnpkg install program or the all_cd iso? Actually FreeDOS categories do not translate directly into FDNPKG repositories. FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a separate category: blocek 1.4 - A graphical text editor with unicode and pictures formats support elvis 2.2 - a clone of vi/ex, the standard UNIX editor. Supports nearly all vi/ex commands fed 2.24 - A folding text editor with color syntax highlighting and more mbedit 8.64 - mbedit is a full screen text editor with macro option, online calculator, command history buffer, hex editor a msedit 0.11 - Mateusz' Saucy Editor pico 3.96 - simple text editor in the style of the Pine Composer tde 5.1v - TDE is a simple, public domain, multi-file/multi-window binary and text file editor written for IBM PCs and close Setedit is not present there (package contributions welcome!) cheers, Mateusz -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] GridPad 1910
There is a limited subset of DOS in ROM. The hard drive had been cleaned of most of its contents, they did leave the on screen keyboard software loaded. Two 10meg flash cards came with it. At least that is what the label on them claims. -- But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel I Timothy 5:8 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size
Hi, On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 6:20 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote: FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. elvis 2.2 - a clone of vi/ex, the standard UNIX editor. Supports nearly all vi/ex commands Not to nitpick, it's still a good editor (at least in features), but isn't the 2.2 build horribly crippled for DOS? It runs out of memory VERY easily. IIRC, some few people preferred old 1.8 for that reason. Actually, I like vi, but I don't have any huge preference. VIM 7.1 was last with 16-bit (limited subset) version. VIM 7.3 is last for (abandoned) 32-bit DOS! Overall, I probably prefer VILE (32-bit DJGPP), but for 16-bit I guess I'd go with (ancient) Stevie. There are some others I'm mostly forgetting (e.g. newer 16-bit XVI [multi-win] that someone compiled with OpenWatcom, which actually includes its own 32-bit vi clone). -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size
Hi, On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Don Flowers donr...@gmail.com wrote: FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a separate category. Mateusz, I am a fan of your FNDPKG system and I use it in Real FreeDOS Mode. I have customized the all_cd to work perfectly on my various computers (Compaq Armada 1700 1750 laptops, HP Elite 8000, Compaq D510, HP DC5700), so I must disagree. While six (or seven if you included setedit) does not constitute a large repository, if one desires (or needs) to learn two or three of these editors to fit one's needs then the edit repo is, IMHO justified (not to mention that there would be less confusion to the end-user; I can think of several util packages that should be in the base repo). BASE usually means FreeDOS core software, which is (mostly, as much as possible) trying to be exactly compatible with MS-DOS. It's quite large, IMHO, and probably includes some cruft, but overall FD people here don't want to change/remove/add anything to it at this point. Maybe for FreeDOS 2.0, but not for minor point releases like 1.2 (if someone ever decides to release that). What util packages would you add to base? On the other hand if there were one editor such as your own Saucy (or FD edit) that were capable of opening a text file of the entire Bible without hanging (which MS-DOS edit can do) then the edit category might not be necessary as a separate repo. My copy of (plain text) Douay Rheims from Project Gutenberg is roughly 6 MB. Is that comparable? Usually editors don't load the whole thing into RAM, only pieces. Even then, it depends on APIs (raw, EMS, XMS, DPMI) and cpu (8086, 286, 386). There are good 16-bit editors out there, but nothing is perfect for all uses. Normally, you're not going to edit the Bible anyways. (Or maybe you're part of an official translation team or want to fix typos.) Just use a viewer, e.g. PG (from UTIL): http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=pg But what IS the maximum file size in MS DOS EDIT? I have tested it on the largest text file which I have and that is my current project: a translation of the bible which is 4.3mb and it works fine and doesn't hang. It's impossible to fit 4.3 MB entirely in conventional memory without some kind of compression. Maybe it's using EMS (which most 8086s didn't have), but I doubt it. More likely it's just not loading it all at once, only in pieces. Are you sure you can view the entire file? Try editing at the very top and then at the very bottom. It's probably swapping to disk somewhere. Certainly I've seen 16-bit real-mode editors that can handle 500 kb, but there's no way to do really large files without some kind of help (swapping to disk or expanded/extended RAM). Even just saving changes only wouldn't work after a while although that might be more efficient in size. On the FreeDOS web page, the description of FreeDOS edit is: FreeDOS improved clone of MS-DOS Edit and sadly, this is simply not true. While it is the go to editor for batch files and FDCONFIG, I could not recommend it as a drop-in replacement for MS-DOS EDIT. Maybe it's a bad assumption, but I assume that people are savvy enough to find a better editor that works for them. There are dozens of them, so it's really not that hard. But first you have to know what you want. If you need more than small files, you'll have to use something else. (E.g. CC386 compiler includes his own 32-bit editor, Infopad, which IIRC was loosely based upon D-Flat.) I LOVE FreeDOS and wish it to succeed into the next decade at least; I don't want to be pessimistic, but most development has stalled (or stabilized). and this is my point, I use FreeDOS in real mode, as if it were an alternate operating system. Well, yes, we all use real mode, but I assume you're not running on 8088/8086. Most people don't. So just use a 386+ port of a different editor. I like TDE, but VILE is also good. Heck, we also have GNU Emacs 23.3 (/current/v2gnu/em2303b.zip, 40 MB) found on any DJGPP mirror! I am an actual (registered) user of the DOS programs that were the ultimate programs of the DOS age: Lotus 123, dBase WordPerfect. Long dead, sadly, and hard to find. Besides these, I also use on a daily basis Online Bible, Alpha Four and Mpxplay. I still need to figure out how to install and run OLB (under VirtualBox: RCtrl-Home??; under QEMU: Ctrl-Alt-2, change floppy0 /rugxulo/blah.img)!!! I've got (unreleased 0.2) MetaDOS floppy .img. I did make it 100% transparent to recompile the (patched) kernel and download OLB from Simtel mirror. Other than that, I haven't figured out install yet. There is only one program that I own that currently does not work in FreeDOS (a tsr dictionary - but I use another which is almost as good). I don't know, I haven't used lots of DOS dictionaries, thesauruses, spell checkers, etc. Some few exist (ispell?), but I
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote: I remember using IBM's Tiny Editor, 16-bit for DOS and OS/2, in DR-DOS 7.03, not open source. Tiny Editor was useful on IBM OS/2 installation floppies because of tiny size, could edit up to about 350 KB file or a little larger, more in OS/2 1.x. I think you're referring to T, a freeware editor by Tim Baldwin at IBM's UK labs: http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?T I have it here. Like various other DOS editors, it edits files up the the limit of conventional memory. Using elvis 2.2, I was able to view and edit files in DR-DOS above 1.5 MB, but scrolling through a file of 3 MB was prohibitively slow; no such problem in Linux. Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM. Editors I'm aware of that ran under DOS and edited really large files used spill files, keeping what would fit in memory in RAM, and the rest on disk, swapping to disk as required. On DOS machines, that was *slow*. DOS wasn't made for large RAM. The 8088 CPU machines on which it ran had an address space of 1MB, and 640K of that was usable by DOS. If you had more RAM than that installed, you needed it seen as EMS or XMS, and accessed by convoluted programming. Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything serious, using vi. Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than on a modern computer. Yes. It was designed for older machines. It simply can't use most of what newer ones offer. Tom __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] (no subject)
I remember using IBM's Tiny Editor, 16-bit for DOS and OS/2, in DR-DOS 7.03, not open source. Tiny Editor was useful on IBM OS/2 installation floppies because of tiny size, could edit up to about 350 KB file or a little larger, more in OS/2 1.x. Using elvis 2.2, I was able to view and edit files in DR-DOS above 1.5 MB, but scrolling through a file of 3 MB was prohibitively slow; no such problem in Linux. Maybe that was because DOS is not really made for large RAM. Still, I prefer to switch to Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD to edit anything serious, using vi. Apparently DOS, including FreeDOS, works better on an older computer than on a modern computer. I just went to drdos.com just to check the price for DR-DOS 7.03, was $79; last time I looked previously, it was $39. Download link for DR-DOS 7.03 from drdos.net is no good; links no longer valid is a problem with much old DOS software. I still have and occasionally use Borland Quattro Pro 5 for DOS; dBASE IV 1.5 less frequently. Tom -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
