Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Jim Hall]

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Karen Lewellen
 wrote:
> Hi Eddie, others.
> One reason places like sourcefordge may be taking this step has to do with
> privacy and e-mail spam regulations.  Many countries  are requiring list
> managers to confirm via various options, that a person wishes to remain
> subscribed.
[..]

Yes, I think you're right. Someone also mentioned the EU has strict
e-privacy rules, and SourceForge may be making these changes to get
in-line with those rules (SourceForge's message suggests something
like this.)


Jim

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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Jim Hall]

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:03 PM, Eddie Anderson  wrote:
[..]
> To Jim Hall:
>
> How many subscribers does each Freedos mailing list have now?  It might be
> interesting to see if the number of subscribers drops significantly after
> SourceForge finishes this process.

The two most active lists are freedos-devel and freedos-user:

freedos-devel
222 subscribers

freedos-user
501 subscribers

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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ? (follow-up)

[Kenway, Owain]

Hi,

I didn't get a captcha either on Firefox 54.0 on Linux, but the form was 
accepted.  Something is broken at SourceForge, I guess.

Cheers,
Owain

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From: Jose Antonio Senna <jasse...@vivointernetdiscada.com.br>
Sent: 21 June 2017 02:03
To: FreeDOS users
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user]  Would someone help me with my subscription ? 
(follow-up)

Ralf Quint <freedos...@gmail.com>said :

> The captcha dialog, without actually showing a
> captcha, is a bug/quirk on SourceForge's site.
> It does happen not only with older browsers,
> but I just had this happen just minutes ago
> in Firefox 54 (on Windows 10-15063.413).

  I never said the captcha only fails to appear
 in older browsers. On the contrary, I said,
 clearly enough, that it did not appear also
 in Chrome under Android, but, in this case,
 the form was accepted, while under both
 Firefox 2.0.20 and SeaMonkey 2.6.12 it was
 rejected and the stated reason for rejection
 was a missing captcha answer.

  The reply I got from SourceForge did not
 mention nor suggest any bug/quirk in
 Sourceforge's site. It offered  two suggestions
 to solve the problem. One was that I enable
 JavaScript, which was already enabled. The
 other was to use another browser.

   No one said before in this list that the captcha
 does not appear under Firefox 54. If the form
 was accepted even without captcha, this is
 more evidence in support of what I said.

JAS




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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ? (follow-up)

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/20/2017 9:45 AM, Jose Antonio Senna wrote:
>
>   So, my conclusion is that  the confirmation page really 
>  was a contrivance to keep out users of older browsers.
>
You don't seem to read the responses you get.

The captcha dialog, without actually showing a captcha, is a bug/quirk
on SourceForge's site. It does happen not only with older browsers, but
I just had this happen just minutes ago in Firefox 54 (on Windows
10-15063.413). Just snapping ignore it...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Eddie, others.
One reason places like sourcefordge may be taking this step has to do with 
privacy and e-mail spam regulations.  Many countries  are requiring list 
managers to confirm via various options, that a person wishes to remain 
subscribed.
The problem, yes there is a problem with recaptcha, is that sourcefordge 
is home to many lists involving open source tools and programs.  Many with 
users who are not well bothering with windows 10 or something.
I stand by my first suggestion, if the captcha  fails, producing the 
message, contact sourcefordge support and tell them.
When I did this, I was contacted with an apology  since indeed the captcha 
does not appear in many settings.  They also  just reconfirmed my 
subscription, problem solved.

Just my take,
Karen


On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Eddie Anderson wrote:


Jose Antonio Senna wrote:


   I received this message, which seems genuine:

>  From: "SourceForge.net"


>  Subject: Important Account Information - Reconfirm Mailing List 
>  Subscriptions



>  Thanks for being a SourceForge user. Our records indicate that
>  you are  subscribed to the following project mailing lists:
> 
>  freedos-devel

>  freedos-user
> 
>  We are contacting you to confirm you are still interested in

>  receiving emails from these SourceForge project lists.
>  If you do not confirm your subscriptions by June 29th,
>  you will be unsubscribed from the above mailing lists.
>  Please click here to confirm your subscriptions:
>
   https://sourceforge.net/mailman/reconfirm?


...


   I followed the link,  filled the subscription confirmation form
   on the page and submitted it,  then receivng the apge back
   with the remark:

>Form security (reCAPTCHA) missing, please submit again

Nowhere on the original page there was a captcha field.

   This looks like another contrivance to keep out users of old browsers.
   ( I am using Firefox 2.0.20 for Windows98)

   Would someone with admin clearance in these lists
 please keep me subscribed ?


To Jim Hall:

How many subscribers does each Freedos mailing list have now?  It might be 
interesting to see if the number of subscribers drops significantly after 
SourceForge finishes this process.



To all:

Why would a mailing list require its subscribers to use a web browser? 
Shouldn't an email client be sufficient? After all, people have been using 
mailing lists since before web browsers (or the world wide web) existed.



And why do I have to "reconfirm"?

Years ago I sent an email in which I asked to subscribe. I received an email 
which asked me to confirm my request (by replying to that email). I sent a 
reply to that email.  Then I received another email which welcomed me to the 
mailing list.


Wasn't that enough?


If the day comes when I want to unsubscribe, I will.  I assume that most, if 
not all, subscribers are equally capable of stopping their subscriptions if 
they want to.


But what if something goes`wrong?  Okay, imagine this scenario:

I stop accessing my email account (due to loss of Internet access, change of 
ISP, my email provider stops providing service in my country, death, etc.).


If that happens, then, for awhile, Freedos emails would uselessly accumulate 
in my email account's Inbox.  That's a waste of bandwidth (more wasteful than 
the recent flood?), but it won't last forever because...


Presumably, my email provider will eventually suspend and/or delete my email 
account due to inactivity (i.e. me not retrieving my email anymore).


After that happens, SourceForge will start getting a bounce msg each time 
that they attempt to send a Freedos email to my defunct email account.


At that point, SourceForge can justifiably (and unilaterally) unsubscribe my 
email account from the Freedos mailing lists.


What's wrong with that process?  Haven't mailing lists worked that way for 
decades?




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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Eddie Anderson]

Jose Antonio Senna wrote:


  I received this message, which seems genuine:


From: "SourceForge.net"



Subject: Important Account Information - Reconfirm Mailing List Subscriptions



Thanks for being a SourceForge user. Our records indicate that
you are  subscribed to the following project mailing lists:

freedos-devel
freedos-user

We are contacting you to confirm you are still interested in
receiving emails from these SourceForge project lists.
If you do not confirm your subscriptions by June 29th,
you will be unsubscribed from the above mailing lists.
Please click here to confirm your subscriptions:


  https://sourceforge.net/mailman/reconfirm?


...


   I followed the link,  filled the subscription confirmation form
  on the page and submitted it,  then receivng the apge back
  with the remark:


  Form security (reCAPTCHA) missing, please submit again


   Nowhere on the original page there was a captcha field.

  This looks like another contrivance to keep out users of old browsers.
  ( I am using Firefox 2.0.20 for Windows98)

  Would someone with admin clearance in these lists
please keep me subscribed ?


To Jim Hall:

How many subscribers does each Freedos mailing list have 
now?  It might be interesting to see if the number of 
subscribers drops significantly after SourceForge finishes 
this process.



To all:

Why would a mailing list require its subscribers to use a 
web browser?  Shouldn't an email client be sufficient? After 
all, people have been using mailing lists since before web 
browsers (or the world wide web) existed.



And why do I have to "reconfirm"?

Years ago I sent an email in which I asked to subscribe. I 
received an email which asked me to confirm my request (by 
replying to that email). I sent a reply to that email.  Then 
I received another email which welcomed me to the mailing list.


Wasn't that enough?


If the day comes when I want to unsubscribe, I will.  I 
assume that most, if not all, subscribers are equally 
capable of stopping their subscriptions if they want to.


But what if something goes`wrong?  Okay, imagine this scenario:

I stop accessing my email account (due to loss of Internet 
access, change of ISP, my email provider stops providing 
service in my country, death, etc.).


If that happens, then, for awhile, Freedos emails would 
uselessly accumulate in my email account's Inbox.  That's a 
waste of bandwidth (more wasteful than the recent flood?), 
but it won't last forever because...


Presumably, my email provider will eventually suspend and/or 
delete my email account due to inactivity (i.e. me not 
retrieving my email anymore).


After that happens, SourceForge will start getting a bounce 
msg each time that they attempt to send a Freedos email to 
my defunct email account.


At that point, SourceForge can justifiably (and 
unilaterally) unsubscribe my email account from the Freedos 
mailing lists.


What's wrong with that process?  Haven't mailing lists 
worked that way for decades?




--
Eddie

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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/12/2017 7:05 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Actually, if you are having issues with the Captcha, create a support
> ticket.
> they should know it is presenting problems.
> Karen 
Well, the problem with the ReCaptcha is that it is not a problem with
the reCaptcha...

I did not get those messages when I had to resubscribe, but on random
downloads from SourceForge, without ever being presented with a Captcha
dialog.
And as it is kind of random when those error/warning messages pop up,
and they also no impede the downloads in anyway, it's hard to reproduce
and and therefor fixable, I guess...

Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Karen Lewellen]

Actually, if you are having issues with the Captcha, create a support 
ticket.

they should know it is presenting problems.
Karen


On Sun, 11 Jun 2017, Ralf Quint wrote:


On 6/11/2017 3:27 PM, Jose Antonio Senna wrote:

 Form security (reCAPTCHA) missing, please submit again

  Nowhere on the original page there was a captcha field.

 This looks like another contrivance to keep out users of old browsers.
 ( I am using Firefox 2.0.20 for Windows98)

That happened occasionally for me as well, though on while resubscribing
but on downloads, and I am using the latest version of Firefox on
Windows 10...


 Would someone with admin clearance in these lists
please keep me subscribed ?


This is a general issue with SourceForge, I got this, in several emails,
for about a dozen mailing lists that I am subscribed to via SourceForge.
Nothing that anyone here (Jim) would have to do to keep you subscribed,
it's all you...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Jim Hall]

> On 6/11/2017 3:27 PM, Jose Antonio Senna wrote:
>>>  Form security (reCAPTCHA) missing, please submit again
>>   Nowhere on the original page there was a captcha field.
[..]
>>  Would someone with admin clearance in these lists
>> please keep me subscribed ?

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Ralf Quint  wrote:
> This is a general issue with SourceForge, I got this, in several emails,
> for about a dozen mailing lists that I am subscribed to via SourceForge.
> Nothing that anyone here (Jim) would have to do to keep you subscribed,
> it's all you...


Yes, there's nothing I can do on my end as list admin. Each subscriber
has to revalidate on their own.

I understand this is to comply with upcoming changes in data privacy
rules in the EU.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Would someone help me with my subscription ?

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/11/2017 3:27 PM, Jose Antonio Senna wrote:
>>  Form security (reCAPTCHA) missing, please submit again 
>   Nowhere on the original page there was a captcha field.
>
>  This looks like another contrivance to keep out users of old browsers.
>  ( I am using Firefox 2.0.20 for Windows98)
That happened occasionally for me as well, though on while resubscribing
but on downloads, and I am using the latest version of Firefox on
Windows 10...
>
>  Would someone with admin clearance in these lists 
> please keep me subscribed ? 
>
This is a general issue with SourceForge, I got this, in several emails,
for about a dozen mailing lists that I am subscribed to via SourceForge.
Nothing that anyone here (Jim) would have to do to keep you subscribed,
it's all you...

Ralf

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