Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Daniel Essin via Freedos-user]

off topic but interesting?

https://yeokhengmeng.com/2023/03/building-a-dos-chatgpt-client-in-2023/

On 3/23/2023 12:44 PM, Rugxulo wrote:

Hi again,

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 12:53 PM Alvah Whealton  wrote:

Thanks for providing me with better direction. I'm already pursuing some of 
your recommendations.

Just to reiterate, the official recommendation of FreeDOS is to use
OpenWatcom and NASM.

(OW's whelp.exe is their documentation reader. For something like
DJGPP it would be Texinfo, e.g. "info libc a printf" although other
Info readers exist.) But a lot of other assemblers are incompatible,
and old source code (e.g. 80xxx snippets) will mostly be in other
dialects. YMMV, caveat emptor, etc.

* 
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/asm/nasm/0.98.39/8086host/

* https://pushbx.org/ecm/doc/insref.htm

* https://www.nasm.us/pub/nasm/releasebuilds/2.16.01/dos/ (latest
32-bit DJGPP build)
* https://www.nasm.us/pub/nasm/releasebuilds/2.16.01/doc/html/

* 
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/ambread.html
(see OSDN's samples, e.g. 8086 reference)

Just for completeness, although not directly DOS-related, I also want
to tell you about Ray Seyfarth's x64 .PDF book, it's very cheap ($5),
and I think it uses YASM. He has some helpful tools (e.g. his EBE
IDE).

* https://www.rayseyfarth.com/asm/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user



___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 12:53 PM Alvah Whealton  wrote:
>
> Thanks for providing me with better direction. I'm already pursuing some of 
> your recommendations.

Just to reiterate, the official recommendation of FreeDOS is to use
OpenWatcom and NASM.

(OW's whelp.exe is their documentation reader. For something like
DJGPP it would be Texinfo, e.g. "info libc a printf" although other
Info readers exist.) But a lot of other assemblers are incompatible,
and old source code (e.g. 80xxx snippets) will mostly be in other
dialects. YMMV, caveat emptor, etc.

* 
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/asm/nasm/0.98.39/8086host/

* https://pushbx.org/ecm/doc/insref.htm

* https://www.nasm.us/pub/nasm/releasebuilds/2.16.01/dos/ (latest
32-bit DJGPP build)
* https://www.nasm.us/pub/nasm/releasebuilds/2.16.01/doc/html/

* 
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/ambread.html
(see OSDN's samples, e.g. 8086 reference)

Just for completeness, although not directly DOS-related, I also want
to tell you about Ray Seyfarth's x64 .PDF book, it's very cheap ($5),
and I think it uses YASM. He has some helpful tools (e.g. his EBE
IDE).

* https://www.rayseyfarth.com/asm/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Alvah Whealton]

Thanks for providing me with better direction. I'm already pursuing some of
your recommendations.

Al Whealton

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 1:19 AM Rugxulo  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:00 PM Alvah Whealton 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:40 PM Rugxulo  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 4:33 PM Alvah Whealton 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'm looking at TASM 5.0 for DOS and Windows, with a date of 1989.
> >> > I guess what I'm asking is if Assembler requires any considerations
> on an emulator that other software does not require.
> >>
> >> But TASM 5.0 was released in 1996 (since 1.0 was 1988).
> >>
> >> (quoting the Byte Pointer website I linked above):
> >>
> >> "TASM 5.0 was exclusively a 32-bit protected mode assembler
> >> (TASM32.EXE) for Windows
> >> The distribution did however include the previous DOS assemblers
> >> (TASM.EXE and TASMX.EXE) and linker (TLINK.EXE) from version 4.1."
> >
> >
> > As you can see, I'm less than a novice at this. I don't know what the
> $#%!# I'm looking at, but here is where it came from:
>
> TASM is no longer sold nor offered for download as an individual
> product. Embarcadero may?? still include it in their modern C++
> bundles, but it hasn't been (properly) updated since year 2000. So
> it's 16-bit and 32-bit OMF targets only (AFAIK, no COFF).
>
> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATurbo_Assembler#Current_Development
>
> (That says MMX, but I suspect it also has SSE support. I'd have to
> double-check.)
>
> *
> https://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/Sydney/en/C%2B%2B_Free_Compiler
> *
> https://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/Sydney/en/C%2B%2B_(Shared_Options)
>
> That first page doesn't list it, but the other page seems to imply
> that RADStudio "Sydney" has TASM.
>
> In any case, the freeware LZASM (Ideal mode only) is basically a
> rebranded TASM that does support up through SSE4.
>
> * http://web.archive.org/web/20090104203629/http://lzasm.hotbox.ru/
>
> But you still need a linker.
>
> * https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/link/
>
> > My confusion on dates stemmed from a Borland manual that came with the
> download,
> > giving copyright dates of 1988 and 1996. Clearly, they did the smart
> thing and in 1996
> > upgraded the older 1988 manual. I did the un-smart thing and made an
> assumption.
>
> Tom Swan's TASM book (2nd ed.) [used] is only $13.19, if you *really*
> want to learn.
>
> *
> https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/mastering-turbo-assembler_tom-swan/450402/item/3431410/#edition=3791690=5041542
>
> >> Did you explicitly need TASM (Ideal) syntax support? Are you starting
> >> a new project or using legacy code? Normally around here we would
> >> recommend a different tool, e.g. NASM or FASM. (OpenWatcom's WASM
> >> -zcm=tasm does have partial support. For MASM v6 stuff, JWasm is a
> >> much better fit.)
> >
> >
> > In the past I have tinkered with C and with Pascal. I'm left with a
> desire to tinker with Assembler "because it's there."
>
> Free Pascal supports inline assembly, even for (since 2015,
> ppcross8086) i8086-msdos cross-target.
>
> > I don't "need" anything.  My only requirement is that it should work
> with FreeDos
> > and that it should have some awfully good documentation available
> somewhere.
>
> You may also find FASM (or FASM g) interesting: plenty of docs,
> examples, forum posts, portable across many OSes, assembles itself!,
> doesn't need a linker (by default) ... but it lacks OMF support. (For
> that, you may prefer JWasm.)
>
> * http://flatassembler.net/docs.php
>
> * https://www.japheth.de/JWasm/Manual.html  (old manual but just FYI)
> * https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/JWasm/releases/tag/v2.16
> (latest version)
>
> There's other good references, too (at least up to 486):
>
> * https://stanislavs.org/helppc/
> * http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel20/MSDOS/INFO/HELPPC21.ZIP
>
> AFAIK, this one goes up through Pentium Pro (686):
>
> * http://www.o-love.net/asmedit/ae_down.html   (IDE with help info)
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:00 PM Alvah Whealton  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:40 PM Rugxulo  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 4:33 PM Alvah Whealton  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm looking at TASM 5.0 for DOS and Windows, with a date of 1989.
>> > I guess what I'm asking is if Assembler requires any considerations on an 
>> > emulator that other software does not require.
>>
>> But TASM 5.0 was released in 1996 (since 1.0 was 1988).
>>
>> (quoting the Byte Pointer website I linked above):
>>
>> "TASM 5.0 was exclusively a 32-bit protected mode assembler
>> (TASM32.EXE) for Windows
>> The distribution did however include the previous DOS assemblers
>> (TASM.EXE and TASMX.EXE) and linker (TLINK.EXE) from version 4.1."
>
>
> As you can see, I'm less than a novice at this. I don't know what the $#%!# 
> I'm looking at, but here is where it came from:

TASM is no longer sold nor offered for download as an individual
product. Embarcadero may?? still include it in their modern C++
bundles, but it hasn't been (properly) updated since year 2000. So
it's 16-bit and 32-bit OMF targets only (AFAIK, no COFF).

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATurbo_Assembler#Current_Development

(That says MMX, but I suspect it also has SSE support. I'd have to
double-check.)

* https://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/Sydney/en/C%2B%2B_Free_Compiler
* https://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/Sydney/en/C%2B%2B_(Shared_Options)

That first page doesn't list it, but the other page seems to imply
that RADStudio "Sydney" has TASM.

In any case, the freeware LZASM (Ideal mode only) is basically a
rebranded TASM that does support up through SSE4.

* http://web.archive.org/web/20090104203629/http://lzasm.hotbox.ru/

But you still need a linker.

* https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/link/

> My confusion on dates stemmed from a Borland manual that came with the 
> download,
> giving copyright dates of 1988 and 1996. Clearly, they did the smart thing 
> and in 1996
> upgraded the older 1988 manual. I did the un-smart thing and made an 
> assumption.

Tom Swan's TASM book (2nd ed.) [used] is only $13.19, if you *really*
want to learn.

* 
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/mastering-turbo-assembler_tom-swan/450402/item/3431410/#edition=3791690=5041542

>> Did you explicitly need TASM (Ideal) syntax support? Are you starting
>> a new project or using legacy code? Normally around here we would
>> recommend a different tool, e.g. NASM or FASM. (OpenWatcom's WASM
>> -zcm=tasm does have partial support. For MASM v6 stuff, JWasm is a
>> much better fit.)
>
>
> In the past I have tinkered with C and with Pascal. I'm left with a desire to 
> tinker with Assembler "because it's there."

Free Pascal supports inline assembly, even for (since 2015,
ppcross8086) i8086-msdos cross-target.

> I don't "need" anything.  My only requirement is that it should work with 
> FreeDos
> and that it should have some awfully good documentation available somewhere.

You may also find FASM (or FASM g) interesting: plenty of docs,
examples, forum posts, portable across many OSes, assembles itself!,
doesn't need a linker (by default) ... but it lacks OMF support. (For
that, you may prefer JWasm.)

* http://flatassembler.net/docs.php

* https://www.japheth.de/JWasm/Manual.html  (old manual but just FYI)
* https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/JWasm/releases/tag/v2.16
(latest version)

There's other good references, too (at least up to 486):

* https://stanislavs.org/helppc/
* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel20/MSDOS/INFO/HELPPC21.ZIP

AFAIK, this one goes up through Pentium Pro (686):

* http://www.o-love.net/asmedit/ae_down.html   (IDE with help info)


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Alvah Whealton]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:40 PM Rugxulo  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 4:33 PM Alvah Whealton 
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking at TASM 5.0 for DOS and Windows, with a date of 1989.
> > I guess what I'm asking is if Assembler requires any considerations on
> an emulator that other software does not require.
>
> But TASM 5.0 was released in 1996 (since 1.0 was 1988).
>
> (quoting the Byte Pointer website I linked above):
>
> "TASM 5.0 was exclusively a 32-bit protected mode assembler
> (TASM32.EXE) for Windows and would be into the future, although it
> retained the DPMI stub continuing to allow it to run under DOS
> provided you have the Borland Runtime Manager (32RTM.EXE) and the
> 32-bit DPMI server (DPMI32VM.OVL) in your path. The distribution did
> however include the previous DOS assemblers (TASM.EXE and TASMX.EXE)
> and linker (TLINK.EXE) from version 4.1."
>

*As you can see, I'm less than a novice at this. I don't know what the
$#%!# I'm looking at, but here is where it came from:*


*https://winworldpc.com/product/turbo-assembler/5x
  *

*My confusion on dates stemmed from a Borland manual that came with the
download, giving copyright dates of 1988 and 1996. Clearly, they did the
smart thing and in 1996 upgraded the older 1988 manual. I did the un-smart
thing and made an assumption.  *


> Did you explicitly need TASM (Ideal) syntax support? Are you starting
> a new project or using legacy code? Normally around here we would
> recommend a different tool, e.g. NASM or FASM. (OpenWatcom's WASM
> -zcm=tasm does have partial support. For MASM v6 stuff, JWasm is a
> much better fit.)
>

*In the past I have tinkered with C and with Pascal. I'm left with a desire
to tinker with Assembler "because it's there."  I don't "need"
anything.  My only requirement is that it should work with FreeDos and that
it should have some awfully good documentation available somewhere.  *


*Thank you for your kindness and your patience. *

*Al Whealton *



> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 4:33 PM Alvah Whealton  wrote:
>
> I'm looking at TASM 5.0 for DOS and Windows, with a date of 1989.
> I guess what I'm asking is if Assembler requires any considerations on an 
> emulator that other software does not require.

But TASM 5.0 was released in 1996 (since 1.0 was 1988).

(quoting the Byte Pointer website I linked above):

"TASM 5.0 was exclusively a 32-bit protected mode assembler
(TASM32.EXE) for Windows and would be into the future, although it
retained the DPMI stub continuing to allow it to run under DOS
provided you have the Borland Runtime Manager (32RTM.EXE) and the
32-bit DPMI server (DPMI32VM.OVL) in your path. The distribution did
however include the previous DOS assemblers (TASM.EXE and TASMX.EXE)
and linker (TLINK.EXE) from version 4.1."

Did you explicitly need TASM (Ideal) syntax support? Are you starting
a new project or using legacy code? Normally around here we would
recommend a different tool, e.g. NASM or FASM. (OpenWatcom's WASM
-zcm=tasm does have partial support. For MASM v6 stuff, JWasm is a
much better fit.)


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Ralf Quint]

On 3/22/2023 2:31 PM, Alvah Whealton wrote:

I'm looking at TASM 5.0 for DOS and Windows, with a date of 1989.
I guess what I'm asking is if Assembler requires any considerations on 
an emulator that other software does not require.


Why should it? The only thing is if you want to use the TASMX 
executable, you need to have a DPMI host running. But TASM will just 
work, this is DOS after all...



Ralf

___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Alvah Whealton]

I'm looking at TASM 5.0 for DOS and Windows, with a date of 1989.
I guess what I'm asking is if Assembler requires any considerations on an
emulator that other software does not require.

Thanks,

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 3:53 PM Rugxulo  wrote:

> Which version?? I assume so, yes, but it's been released for several
> OSes (not just DOS), e.g. OS/2 and Windows. (I usually run the
> Win32/PE 5.3 version in DOS, there are several ways.)
>
> * https://bytepointer.com/tasm/index.htm
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 5:33 PM Alvah Whealton 
> wrote:
> >
> > Can Turbo Assembler be run on FreeDos, when FreeDos is being run on an
> emulator?
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Rugxulo]

Which version?? I assume so, yes, but it's been released for several
OSes (not just DOS), e.g. OS/2 and Windows. (I usually run the
Win32/PE 5.3 version in DOS, there are several ways.)

* https://bytepointer.com/tasm/index.htm


On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 5:33 PM Alvah Whealton  wrote:
>
> Can Turbo Assembler be run on FreeDos, when FreeDos is being run on an 
> emulator?


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] TASM under an emulator?

[Ralf Quint]

On 3/21/2023 3:30 PM, Alvah Whealton wrote:
Can Turbo Assembler be run on FreeDos, when FreeDos is being run on an 
emulator?


Why not?

 I certainly have


Ralf
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user