[Freesurfer] Still confused by group analysis..

2013-05-12 Thread Tudor Popescu
Dear Freesurfer experts,

I very much appreciate your help with an additional set of questions. I
feel I'm really close to getting this finished :)

1) In a design with group and gender as discrete factors and age as a
continuous factor, why is it that QDEC only displays the contrast Does the
avg thickness, accounting for gender, differ between group1 and group2?
and not also ..acounting for gender and age,..?

2) In QDEC, if I am left with a cluster after setting the FDR rate to 0.1,
does that qualify as a trend towads significance in the same way as when
obtaining a p value .1 for a behavioural effect?

3) From the group tutorial, I see that mris_preproc has to be called with
flag --cache-in ess.fwhm10thickn.fsaverage. However, after running
recon-all (including with the –qcache option) on all my subjects, none of
their folders contains a file named ?h.thickness.fwhm10.fsaverage.mgh

4) When comparing two healthy groups, is there anything to gain from using
a fsaverage built from the sample (with make_average_subject) as opposed to
using the default fsaverage?

5) What is the difference between running make_average_subject and running
mris_preproc with --target fsaverage?

6) For my ROI mri_glmfit analysis, I wanted to use the FSGD and contrast
files that were automatically created when I did my QDEC whole-brain
analysis, since the design will be the same. However, although I identified
the FSGD file (qdec.fsgd), I cannot see any plaintext file in the QDEC
folder that looks like it contains contrast definitions!

Thanks!
Tudor
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Re: [Freesurfer] Binary volume to surface label

2013-05-12 Thread Jonathan DuBois
Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the quick response. The label is a manually traced area of the
cortex. It is in subject scanner space and has a single value, so it
probably would not work with bbregister. I can load it in tkmedit as a
segmentation and the alignment is correct. I attached a screenshot. Is
there a way to select the values greater than zero in tkmedit and save as a
label that could be used in vol2surf? I have other labels that are larger
so I would prefer not to retrace them if possible.

[image: Inline image 2]
Best,
Jonathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Bruce Fischl
fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.eduwrote:

 Hi Jonathan

 what is the label? What space is it in? If it has gray/white contrast you
 could try bbregister.

 cheers
 Bruce

 On Sat, 11 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

  Hi Freesurfer Experts,
 I have a binary volume label in subject space that I converted from MINC
 to MGZ. I would like to register it to
 the surface of that subject as a flat label. I thought I would be able to
 do so with mri_vol2surf but I am not
 sure how to generate the required registration file. Is that the correct
 command, and if so, which registration
 file should I use?

 Thanks
 Jonathan




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Re: [Freesurfer] Binary volume to surface label

2013-05-12 Thread Bruce Fischl

Hi Jonathan

you don't need to register it if it's shown properly in tkmedit or 
freeview. Can you tell us more about what you are trying to do?

Bruce


On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:


Hi Bruce, 
Thanks for the quick response. The label is a manually traced area of the
cortex. It is in subject scanner space and has a single value, so it
probably would not work with bbregister. I can load it in tkmedit as a
segmentation and the alignment is correct. I attached a screenshot. Is there
a way to select the values greater than zero in tkmedit and save as a label
that could be used in vol2surf? I have other labels that are larger so I
would prefer not to retrace them if possible.

Inline image 2
Best, 
Jonathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Bruce Fischl fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
wrote:
  Hi Jonathan

  what is the label? What space is it in? If it has gray/white
  contrast you could try bbregister.

  cheers
  Bruce
  On Sat, 11 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

Hi Freesurfer Experts, 
I have a binary volume label in subject space that I
converted from MINC to MGZ. I would like to register
it to
the surface of that subject as a flat label. I
thought I would be able to do so with mri_vol2surf
but I am not
sure how to generate the required registration file.
Is that the correct command, and if so, which
registration
file should I use?

Thanks
Jonathan




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Re: [Freesurfer] Binary volume to surface label

2013-05-12 Thread Jonathan DuBois
Hi Bruce,

I would like to convert the .mgz label volume to a surface label for that
subject, but mri_vol2surf requires a registration file.

Best,
Jonathan



On Sunday, May 12, 2013, Bruce Fischl wrote:

 Hi Jonathan

 you don't need to register it if it's shown properly in tkmedit or
 freeview. Can you tell us more about what you are trying to do?
 Bruce


 On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

  Hi Bruce,
 Thanks for the quick response. The label is a manually traced area of the
 cortex. It is in subject scanner space and has a single value, so it
 probably would not work with bbregister. I can load it in tkmedit as a
 segmentation and the alignment is correct. I attached a screenshot. Is
 there
 a way to select the values greater than zero in tkmedit and save as a
 label
 that could be used in vol2surf? I have other labels that are larger so I
 would prefer not to retrace them if possible.

 Inline image 2
 Best,
 Jonathan


 On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Bruce Fischl 
 fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
 wrote:
   Hi Jonathan

   what is the label? What space is it in? If it has gray/white
   contrast you could try bbregister.

   cheers
   Bruce
   On Sat, 11 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

 Hi Freesurfer Experts,
 I have a binary volume label in subject space that I
 converted from MINC to MGZ. I would like to register
 it to
 the surface of that subject as a flat label. I
 thought I would be able to do so with mri_vol2surf
 but I am not
 sure how to generate the required registration file.
 Is that the correct command, and if so, which
 registration
 file should I use?

 Thanks
 Jonathan




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 it is
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 e-mail
 contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance
 HelpLine at
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  If the e-mail was sent to you
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Re: [Freesurfer] Binary volume to surface label

2013-05-12 Thread Bruce Fischl

try using --regheader

cheers
Bruce
On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:


Hi Bruce, 
I would like to convert the .mgz label volume to a surface label for that
subject, but mri_vol2surf requires a registration file.

Best, 
Jonathan



On Sunday, May 12, 2013, Bruce Fischl wrote:
  Hi Jonathan

  you don't need to register it if it's shown properly in tkmedit
  or freeview. Can you tell us more about what you are trying to
  do?
  Bruce


  On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

Hi Bruce, 
Thanks for the quick response. The label is a
manually traced area of the
cortex. It is in subject scanner space and has a
single value, so it
probably would not work with bbregister. I can load
it in tkmedit as a
segmentation and the alignment is correct. I
attached a screenshot. Is there
a way to select the values greater than zero in
tkmedit and save as a label
that could be used in vol2surf? I have other labels
that are larger so I
would prefer not to retrace them if possible.

Inline image 2
Best, 
Jonathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Bruce Fischl
fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
wrote:
      Hi Jonathan

      what is the label? What space is it in? If it
has gray/white
      contrast you could try bbregister.

      cheers
      Bruce
      On Sat, 11 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

            Hi Freesurfer Experts, 
            I have a binary volume label in subject
space that I
            converted from MINC to MGZ. I would like
to register
            it to
            the surface of that subject as a flat
label. I
            thought I would be able to do so with
mri_vol2surf
            but I am not
            sure how to generate the required
registration file.
            Is that the correct command, and if so,
which
            registration
            file should I use?

            Thanks
            Jonathan




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[Freesurfer] Restricting ROI Analysis

2013-05-12 Thread Skyler Gabriel Shollenbarger
Hi everyone,

We are trying to restrict an analysis using Qdec to a region of interest. We 
have successfully created the ROI mask, however the analysis continues to be 
run on the entire brain. Any help is greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,
Skyler and Jon

-- 

Skyler G. Shollenbarger 
Graduate Student - UWM Brain Lab 
Clinical Psychology  Neurospychology 
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee 

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Re: [Freesurfer] Binary volume to surface label

2013-05-12 Thread Jonathan DuBois
I used the following options: mri_vol2surf --hemi lh --regheader subject01
--cortex --mov label.mgz --o ./label.mgh
It ran without error, but I could not open the resulting file in tksurfer
as either a label or an overlay:
-
/Applications/freesurfer/tktools/tksurfer.bin: no data in label file
/Users/label.mgh
tkmedit: Trying to open /Users/label.dat
surfer: Interpreting overlay volume /Users/label.mgh as encoded scalar
volume

Best,
Jonathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Fischl fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.eduwrote:

 try using --regheader

 cheers

 Bruce
 On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

  Hi Bruce,
 I would like to convert the .mgz label volume to a surface label for that
 subject, but mri_vol2surf requires a registration file.

 Best,
 Jonathan



 On Sunday, May 12, 2013, Bruce Fischl wrote:
   Hi Jonathan

   you don't need to register it if it's shown properly in tkmedit
   or freeview. Can you tell us more about what you are trying to
   do?
   Bruce


   On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

 Hi Bruce,
 Thanks for the quick response. The label is a
 manually traced area of the
 cortex. It is in subject scanner space and has a
 single value, so it
 probably would not work with bbregister. I can load
 it in tkmedit as a
 segmentation and the alignment is correct. I
 attached a screenshot. Is there
 a way to select the values greater than zero in
 tkmedit and save as a label
 that could be used in vol2surf? I have other labels
 that are larger so I
 would prefer not to retrace them if possible.

 Inline image 2
 Best,
 Jonathan


 On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Bruce Fischl
 fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
 wrote:
   Hi Jonathan

   what is the label? What space is it in? If it
 has gray/white
   contrast you could try bbregister.

   cheers
   Bruce
   On Sat, 11 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

 Hi Freesurfer Experts,
 I have a binary volume label in subject
 space that I
 converted from MINC to MGZ. I would like
 to register
 it to
 the surface of that subject as a flat
 label. I
 thought I would be able to do so with
 mri_vol2surf
 but I am not
 sure how to generate the required
 registration file.
 Is that the correct command, and if so,
 which
 registration
 file should I use?

 Thanks
 Jonathan




 The information in this e-mail is intended only for
 the person to whom
 it is
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 you in error and the
 e-mail
 contains patient information, please contact the
 Partners Compliance
 HelpLine at
 
 http://www.partners.org/**compliancelinehttp://www.partners.org/complianceline.
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Re: [Freesurfer] using T2* weighted scans to assist with dura stripping in a GE scanner?

2013-05-12 Thread Matt Glasser
This is available online now:

http://authors.elsevier.com/sd/article/S1053811913005053


On 5/7/13 3:10 PM, Bruce Fischl fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu wrote:

actually Matt Glasser points out that a brief description is in his paper
that is coming out soon, and there is also some description in Andre's
multi-echo mprage paper
Bruce
On Tue, 7 May 2013, Inati, Souheil (NIH/NIMH) [E]
wrote:

 thanks :-)

 On May 7, 2013, at 3:28 PM, Bruce Fischl fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
wrote:

 no, of course not :)

 On Tue, 7 May 2013, Inati, Souheil (NIH/NIMH) [E]
 wrote:

 Hi Bruce,

 Out of curiosity and for reference for my users, do you have a paper
on the T2 or FLAIR assisted segmentation?

 Cheers,
 Souheil

 -

 Souheil Inati, PhD
 Staff Scientist
 FMRI Facility
 NIMH/NIH/DHHS
 souheil.in...@nih.govmailto:souheil.in...@nih.gov




 On May 7, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Bruce Fischl
fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edumailto:fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu wrote:

 Hi Katie

 I'm really not sure. These days I would recommend a highres (e.g. 1mm
 isotropic) FLAIR if you can get one, or T2 if not. The T2* can help,
but
 it's pretty noisy in brain.

 cheers
 Bruce

 On Tue, 7 May 2013, Katie Surrence wrote:

 Dear Freesurfer gurus,

 At the course, André van der Kouwe mentioned in his morphometry
methods talk that T2* weighted contrast from
 MEMPRAGE could be used to further seperate dura from cortex, as also
discussed in this paper:
 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2408694/.  We have a GE
scanner in our lab.  The internet suggests
 that a Multi-echo FSPGR/FGRE exists.  Would this be the analog?
Would it work the same way?  Could you also
 use these images with the mris_make_surfaces command?

 Thanks very much for your insight -- and I enjoyed the course!

 /Katie Surrence

 --
 Research Coordinator
 Social Cognition Laboratory
 New York State Psychiatric Institute

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Re: [Freesurfer] Correction for multiple comparisons question

2013-05-12 Thread Douglas Greve
Hi Panagiotis,

On 5/12/13 9:32 PM, Fotiadis, Panagiotis wrote:
 Hi Freesurfer experts,

 I was wondering about three things concerning the use of the mri_glmfit-sim 
 command:

 1) I tried running it with the --2spaces flag in order to Bonferroni correct 
 over the two hemispheres but it tells me that the specific flag is not 
 recognized. Is there another way to correct over the two hemispheres?
What version are you using? You can just adjust the clusterwise 
threshold by dividing by 2 (eg, if you want a clusterwise threshold of 
.05, then set it to .025)

 2) I set the cluster-based threshold to 0.999 in order to see all of the 
 clusters and varied the voxel-based threshold in order to see the differences 
 that it would make on the results. Specifically, i set it to be 1.3, 2.0, 
 2.3, and 3.0. Between the four different occurring cluster summaries, there 
 was only one common cluster that appeared in all four summaries. As expected, 
 the number of voxels of the specific cluster was decreasing as its voxel-wise 
 threshold was increasing.

 a)  However, the reported cluster-wise threshold  varied between 0.05 to 0.96 
 in those four cases. Does this sound reasonable? Shouldn't the cluster wise p 
 values of the same cluster-between the four cases-be less dispersed?
I'm not sure what you mean here. At 3.0, the cluster may be very small 
and so could appear to be very insignificant.

 b)  If there is a cluster reported in only one of the four summaries (i.e. 
 when the voxel-based threshold is 1.3) that say has a cluster-wise p value of 
 0.03, do I consider that significant or not, since it does not appear in any 
 other summary with such a low cluster wise p value and since the only 
 published p value is the cluster wise one?
In principle, it is significant. A lot of reviewers balk at such a 
liberal voxel-wise threshold since gaussian random fields breaks down at 
liberal thresholds. However, this uses simulations and not GRF. You 
should make sure the reviewers know this. There still might be some 
resistance since you could be picking up some low spatial frequency 
trends (ie, stuff that is not spatially gaussian) in addition to your 
true activation.

doug

 Thank you in advance for your time,
 Panagiotis Fotiadis
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Re: [Freesurfer] Restricting ROI Analysis

2013-05-12 Thread Douglas Greve
Hi Skyler, I don't think we have the ability to restrict the analysis to 
an ROI in QDEC. You can do it with mri_glmfit with the --mask or --label 
option.
doug


On 5/12/13 4:25 PM, Skyler Gabriel Shollenbarger wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 We are trying to restrict an analysis using Qdec to a region of interest. We 
 have successfully created the ROI mask, however the analysis continues to be 
 run on the entire brain. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 Thanks,
 Skyler and Jon


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Re: [Freesurfer] Binary volume to surface label

2013-05-12 Thread Douglas Greve
It cannot create a label file directly. What happens when you try to 
load it as an overlay? Make sure to set the threshold to 0.5. Also, 
before going to the surface load the binary volume onto the anatomical 
with  the surfaces to make sure that the surfaces pass through the mask.


doug


On 5/12/13 4:55 PM, Bruce Fischl wrote:

Hi Jonathan

try -output_type mgh. It should create a volume that is nvertices 
long. Not sure if it can directly create a label file, maybe Doug knows?


Bruce


On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

I used the following options: mri_vol2surf --hemi lh --regheader 
subject01
--cortex --mov label.mgz --o ./label.mghIt ran without error, but I 
could

not open the resulting file in tksurfer as either a label or an overlay:
-
/Applications/freesurfer/tktools/tksurfer.bin: no data in label file
/Users/label.mgh
tkmedit: Trying to open /Users/label.dat
surfer: Interpreting overlay volume /Users/label.mgh as encoded scalar
volume

Best,
Jonathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Fischl 
fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu

wrote:
  try using --regheader

  cheers
  Bruce
  On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

Hi Bruce,
I would like to convert the .mgz label volume to a
surface label for that
subject, but mri_vol2surf requires a registration
file.

Best,
Jonathan



On Sunday, May 12, 2013, Bruce Fischl wrote:
  Hi Jonathan

  you don't need to register it if it's shown
properly in tkmedit
  or freeview. Can you tell us more about what
you are trying to
  do?
  Bruce


  On Sun, 12 May 2013, Jonathan DuBois wrote:

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the quick response. The label
is a
manually traced area of the
cortex. It is in subject scanner space
and has a
single value, so it
probably would not work with bbregister.
I can load
it in tkmedit as a
segmentation and the alignment is
correct. I
attached a screenshot. Is there
a way to select the values greater than
zero in
tkmedit and save as a label
that could be used in vol2surf? I have
other labels
that are larger so I
would prefer not to retrace them if
possible.

Inline image 2
Best,
Jonathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Bruce
Fischl
fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
wrote:
  Hi Jonathan

  what is the label? What space is
it in? If it
has gray/white
  contrast you could try bbregister.

  cheers
  Bruce
  On Sat, 11 May 2013, Jonathan
DuBois wrote:

Hi Freesurfer Experts,
I have a binary volume label
in subject
space that I
converted from MINC to MGZ.
I would like
to register
it to
the surface of that subject
as a flat
label. I
thought I would be able to
do so with
mri_vol2surf
but I am not
sure how to generate the
required
registration file.
Is that the correct command,
and if so,
which
registration
file should I use?

Thanks
Jonathan




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Re: [Freesurfer] thickness

2013-05-12 Thread Douglas Greve


On 5/11/13 7:41 PM, Tudor Popescu wrote:
Hi everyone, I resort to asking some questions here again, after 
feeling increasingly stupid (maybe just tired) after reading the wiki 
pages relevant for my analysis (ROI, thickness).


1) How should the contrast vector for a group comparison while 
factoring out age and gender be built? I didn't quite understand the 
example in the tutorial 
http://surfer.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/fswiki/FsTutorial/GroupAnalysis#Contrastsbased 
on intercept/offset. In my case, shouldn't I have 4 elements in the 
vector (group1, group2, age, gender), with the first two elements 
receiving perhaps 1 and -1, since they are directly compared, and the 
last two elements 0 and 0 since I am not directly interested in their 
effect on the dependent variable?
Gender should be two groups (don't code it as a continuous variable). 
This will give you 8 columns. g1, g2, male, female, g1-age, g2-age, etc.


2) Are the structures described in the .label files produced by 
mri_annotation2label in common (MNI) or in that subject's individual 
space?

Individual space.


3) For my thickness analysis, I have in mind an ROI for which I have a 
set of centre coordinates from a meta-analysis of relevant functional 
studies. What is the best way of defining the mask for this ROI as a 
function of those coordinates, rather than taking the eponymous region 
from the Destrieux or the Desikan atlas?
Assuming that the coords are in mni152, convert it to mni305 (to do this 
search for coordinates on the wiki).  Then load up fsaverage and find 
the vertex closest to this coordinate. The draw a label around this vertex.


4) Exactly which of recon-all's outputs has to be inspected, for each 
subject, in order to tell whether the surface reconstruction has gone 
well?
Load up the surfaces over the nu.mgz or the T1.mgz and see if the 
surfaces follow the anatomy properly.


5) Is it statistically correct to run the same design both with a DODS 
FSGD and with a DOSS FSGD? It's not entirely clear to me what 
assumptions each one (DODS, DOSS) makes of the data, and which one I 
should select in my case.
The DODS allows for interactions between a continuous factor and a 
discrete factor. Eg, the thickness-age slope could be different between 
males and females, and you could detect this with DODS. With DOSS, there 
is only one thickness-age slope for all groups, so there is no way to 
detect an interaction.


doug


Thank you very much indeed.

Tudor


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Re: [Freesurfer] Usage of --area option in estimating the vertex-wise maps of surface area

2013-05-12 Thread Douglas Greve


Hi Xi-Nian, it does not do the same thing, but it does something 
similar. Anderson found that it gave similar results in a lot of cases, 
but he has found some differences. If he's still following the FS list, 
maybe he can comment.


doug




On 5/11/13 9:53 PM, Xinian Zuo wrote:

Hello Doug,

I am doing some association studies between functional measures and 
surface area. In using  mris_preproc, there is an option --area. Does 
this do sth similar to that as Winkler et al. (2012)?


Winkler et al., 2012. Measureing and comparing brain cortical 
surfacearea and other areal quantities.


Thank you very much.
--
Xi-Nian Zuo, Ph.D of Applied Mathematics (http://lfcd.psych.ac.cn)
Google Scholar Citations: 
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=a3-gVGMJhl=en



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