Re: [Freetel-codec2] Why the DMR 4FSK modem is less optimal than David Rowe's 4FSK modem

2017-09-12 Thread glen english
depends on the applied data/modulator filter prior to modulation. the trellis coding doesnt actually remove the isi it's all about pre filtering and post equalisation, directed rather than static. Though the DMR modem is super simple. Be aware, some modulation types are designed to have

Re: [Freetel-codec2] Why the DMR 4FSK modem is less optimal than David Rowe's 4FSK modem

2017-09-12 Thread David Rowe
The ISI interpretation really only makes sense if you are using an analog FM demodulator for both waveforms. This is not the best way to demodulate FSK - it's a rough method - a kludge - that has somehow found it's way into a standard! BTW it's not really "David's modem" - Brady and I just

Re: [Freetel-codec2] Why the DMR 4FSK modem is less optimal than David Rowe's 4FSK modem

2017-09-12 Thread David Rowe
Hi Adrian, Nice to see some one else working in this area. I imagine another reason is that the people setting the DMR standard were constrained by having a black box, closed source speech codec which constrained the bit rate they had to deal with. Have you performed any BER tests to

Re: [Freetel-codec2] [Discuss-gnuradio] Why the DMR 4FSK modem is less optimal than David Rowe's 4FSK modem

2017-09-12 Thread Adrian Musceac
Hi Phil, Of course, you are right, but Trellis is computationally more expensive than a straight change of the modem parameters. The DMR software stack is huge, compared to what a small community of largely open source enthusiasts can come up with. (my problem with DMR as a radio equipment

Re: [Freetel-codec2] Why the DMR 4FSK modem is less optimal than David Rowe's 4FSK modem

2017-09-12 Thread Phil Frost
Wouldn't the ISI largely (theoretically, completely) be ameliorated by trellis decoding? And I'm not talking about FEC, but rather incorporating the ISI into the expected Cartesian coordinates for each symbol. I did some experimentation with this technique on BPSK31, and I was able to get a

[Freetel-codec2] Why the DMR 4FSK modem is less optimal than David Rowe's 4FSK modem

2017-09-12 Thread Adrian Musceac
Hi, In this post: http://www.rowetel.com/?p=4650 David was asking the question why the 4FSK modem used by the DMR standard seemed to be performing so poorly, especially as compared to his ideal 4FSK modem. I was curious myself, so I implemented both and analysed them using my modified version of