Hi, everybody,
This has been one heluva discussion, and, given the brush-back I got from Glen
a couple of days ago, I thought I had better stay out of it unless I could
really throw myself into it, and I have been tied up with other things. It's
the kind of conversation that makes me
Frank,
> On May 13, 2020, at 7:31 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> When I worked at the PIttsburgh Supercomputing Center, a division of CMU, we
> had a user who produced a visualization of the first few milliseconds after
> the big bang. How can they do that?
>
> Didn't Penzias and Wilson win
Ok so how do we distinguish behavior from non-behavior movements within
the system you are proposing? In what way do we distinguish the dead duck
from the living duck? Or, to stick with the example you prefer, the
changing color of the celery from the changing color of a paper towel
placed
Dave -
> The COVID-19 pandemic will end, at least in the US, by mid-June, 2020.
Ignoring the "bait" that I (and others) took earlier, I'll try to
respond to the singular prediction above:
What means "end"? What is a specific statistic that you believe to
indicate that the pandemic has ended?
I think Jon's contribution (and my response) argue that the entire space can be
spanned by such domain specifiers. So, I don't think we're dealing with
borderline examples, only examples that demonstrate the spanning.
I don't think agree with Holt's criteria for distinguishing behavior from
Jon,
This is a great expansion of the issue, and it might take me a bit to build
up to an adequate response.
You are definitely right that "scale" is one of many dimensions we might
look at when evaluating whether or not something is a behavior. The
evaluation of whether or not something is
Sorry. The wife says, "It turns out that it wasn't the meteor that killed
the dinosaurs; it was stress about the meteor".
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 5:02 PM Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Stress or virus
>
>
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNtFVkBUo9UR7UFiqk8Pe9Jvo-2WubK07UEUGhr
>
> On Tue, May
Stress or virus
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNtFVkBUo9UR7UFiqk8Pe9Jvo-2WubK07UEUGhr
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 2:33 PM Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Dave writes:
>
>
>
> “Unfortunately, culture is, at minimum, NP-Hard and almost certainly NP
> complete.”
>
>
>
> Noisy wetware is going to get
Frank,
Well I think conclusions drawn from fMRI results are dramatically
overblown, but the results themselves are mostly decent but if we
side-step that discussion to focus on your broader question as I understand
it:
If *you*, personally, did the type of experiment that got that result,
Glen,
That is excellent! However, I think it brings us back to the problem of
starting with borderline examples.
I *might *be willing to talk about pond scum behaving, but certainly not
without further analysis. Did we agree to use Holt's criteria for
distinguishing behavior from mere movement?
When I worked at the PIttsburgh Supercomputing Center, a division of CMU,
we had a user who produced a visualization of the first few milliseconds
after the big bang. How can they do that?
Didn't Penzias and Wilson win the Nobel Prize for showing that the
background radiation caused by that
Jon --
It's a mystery to me. I believe they are simply counting the number of
spectral lines at each wave number and plotting the histogram. And the
link is between the now and the very long ago. And I believe there's no
reason to expect this histogram to have any particular distribution at
Dave writes:
“Unfortunately, culture is, at minimum, NP-Hard and almost certainly NP
complete.”
Noisy wetware is going to get anywhere without exponential resources?
Like Sars-COV2, the humans are sometimes prone to that rate of reproduction.
Marcus
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ...
I understand. But remember that I care very little about the person wearing (or
not) a helmet. I care *much* more about the other drivers, the ambulance,
healthcare costs (of both dead and not-dead), etc. What that implies is that I
don't care very much about the stories from MEs or EMTs, etc.
Marcus,
Unfortunately, culture is, at minimum, NP-Hard and almost certainly NP complete.
davew
On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 2:18 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Dave writes:
>
> < Similar things happen all the time when we insist on focusing on "the
> science" and ignore the "art" and the insights
Dave writes:
< Similar things happen all the time when we insist on focusing on "the
science" and ignore the "art" and the insights of "non-scientific" disciplines
and fields of inquiry. >
It is possible to state models of cultural interactions and simulate them on a
computer. When one does
glen,
another time, another place, if an only if someone is interested — I can prove
my assertions about helmets and show exactly and precisely how all the studies
you may have found using Google Scholar, err. Show how other factors (notably
age and hours of experience) are far more important
Steve,
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I continue to fail in my attempts to
parameterize discussions because all of you are so dammed smart. But I try
again.
I wanted to make a simple prediction (the end of the pandemic) that contrasted
significantly with the prevailing prediction (yours
Glen -
> Aha! Excellent point! That viruses are parasites might be a critical issue,
> though. What do viruses really do for us? It's less a matter of whether they
> feel pain and more about parasitism. I hesitate to google "ethics of
> parasitism".
.. and now we tangent to mutualistic,
Less public. Last I heard with fMRI they might be able to detect that
you're thinking of a coffee cup. I rarely think of cups. Could the detect
that I was thinking of a covariant tensor?
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Tue, May 12,
Yes, you're right. Scale is merely one parameter by which the domain can be
shifted. The only problem is that "domain" is a pretty abstract concept. So
choosing a concrete example (like scale) helps move the discussion along
without getting too caught up in the generalization. This bears
Roger,
I get the sense that this is a link between the very small
and the very large, but I am far from being a physicist.
Could you say more about this result?
Jon
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom
Aha! Excellent point! That viruses are parasites might be a critical issue,
though. What do viruses really do for us? It's less a matter of whether they
feel pain and more about parasitism. I hesitate to google "ethics of
parasitism".
On 5/12/20 9:53 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> and Virii?
Glen, Eric,
I am enjoying how the conversation is developing. The celery
example strikes me as being important, but where Glen refers
to *scale* I would speak of *domain of definition*. That a shift in
domain happens to be size, rather than some other contextual
specification, may not be what we
On 5/12/20 10:10 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> Ha! Well, these analogies do break down. So "precisely the same way" doesn't
> really work. For example, I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the costs
> associated with obesity are "precisely the same" as the costs associated with
> cleaning your
Ha! Well, these analogies do break down. So "precisely the same way" doesn't
really work. For example, I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the costs
associated with obesity are "precisely the same" as the costs associated with
cleaning your smashed body off the road.
I continue to argue
On 5/12/20 7:56 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> The contrary argument was made to me by my dad, who called himself a
> "Goldwater Conservative", was that when you end up as a blood smear all over
> the highway or all smashed up against a tree, *someone* has to clean that
> sh¡t up. Factor in, further,
OK. Thanks. I'll try again.
It's not the movement of the water that concerns me as much of the movement of
the *cells* that cause the movement of the water. If we can credibly talk about
pond scum behaving, then we can talk about a) individual cellular behavior and
b) tissue behavior. This is
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
My memory/impression is that widespread seatbelt use began in the mid
sixties.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Tue, May 12, 2020, 7:57 AM uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> The
The contrary argument was made to me by my dad, who called himself a "Goldwater
Conservative", was that when you end up as a blood smear all over the highway
or all smashed up against a tree, *someone* has to clean that sh¡t up. Factor
in, further, rubbernecking, the possibility of children
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