Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-04-01 Thread glen e. p. ropella
Victoria Hughes wrote circa 10-03-31 09:29 PM: How can you identify in the moment which aberrations will lead to evolution, versus which aberrations will lead to atrophy? It's not clear to me that there's a difference between evolution and atrophy. It seems to me that atrophy is just one of

Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-04-01 Thread ERIC P. CHARLES
Pardon me, but I couldn't help overhearing (i.e., randomly butting in): Evolution is never visible 'in the moment', evolution is one type of change over time. This whole thing where you think you can see a new organism born and say see, look at that, THAT is evolution is crazy talk... no matter

Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-04-01 Thread sarbajit roy
Hi Glen The reason my points were phrased that way was due to the subject of this thread. The vs. paints holism / reductionism as a black vs white fight, whereas there is a whole spectrum (and not only of grays) in between (and beyond) not necessarily in coonflict (Ebony and Ivory ..). Just FYI,

Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-04-01 Thread glen e. p. ropella
sarbajit roy wrote circa 10-04-01 12:21 PM: The reason my points were phrased that way was due to the subject of this thread. The vs. paints holism / reductionism as a black vs white fight, whereas there is a whole spectrum (and not only of grays) in between (and beyond) not necessarily in

Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-03-31 Thread glen e. p. ropella
You make some interesting points; but they're phrased in a way that makes it difficult to respond. I'll just tick off a few things I think stand out. I don't think it's very easy to justify the assertion that any given biological system is non-computable. It seems to me that such a

Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-03-31 Thread Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again You make some interesting points; but they're phrased in a way that makes it difficult to respond. I'll just tick off a few things I think stand out. I don't think it's very easy to justify the assertion that any given biological system is non

Re: [FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-03-31 Thread Victoria Hughes
Allright you all- Although chiming in without having read the entire thread is probably an error with you all, re Vladimyr's intriguing comments below: I agree completely, although I do not see this as an uncomfortable conclusion. I see it as less hubristic and more integrated. Must be my

[FRIAM] holism vs. reductionism, again

2010-03-29 Thread glen e. p. ropella
So what do we really mean when we say that systems biology is holistic? http://www.biomedcentral.com/1752-0509/4/22 -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets