Re: [FRIAM] Eternal questions

So This is JUST a question of whether we are having a casual conversation or a technical one, right? Certainly, in a casual, English-language conversation talk of "having" emotions is well understood, and just fine, for example "Nick is *having *a fit, just let him be." (I can't speak for other

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

All are created equal, in terms of having certain inalienable rights. Beyond that, I'm not sure anything is claimed in the document mentioned. They certainly didn't think all men were equally tall, or equally robust, or equally prepared for leisurely pursuits or hard labor. They didn't think men we

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Seconding what I take to be Frank's sentiment, I would be "satisfied" with MUCH less than I have now. I'm not sure how that connects to the larger thread though. I feel bad for people who have been taught to be robustly unsatisfied with life. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 3:46 PM Frank Wimberly wrot

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

" All persons would be created equally .. in a perfect world." Hard disagree. Perhaps in a perfect we would reduce the extreme inequities a bit, but it would be a much less perfect world if we created actual full equality. This is part of my long-standing disagreement with Nick's attempts to flat-

Re: [FRIAM] Epic

I love this guy! He had a couple good covers with TV preachers, but I think I really started to appreciate him with this bid from up in Canada, earlier this year, when stores were just starting to do the open-close dance. And the reactions by those standing around watching are awesome. https://ww

Re: [FRIAM] Eternal questions

The question of mechanism is not an easy one. There have been several attempts to figure out how to speak of it, by those who think mostly along the same lines as Nick and I do. Gilbert Ryle famously talked about "dispositions" in this context. Nick wants to go with pure "up reduction". My buddies

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

; warming). I suggest that a new perspective for someone like Eric might be > looking around at his extraordinarily privileged life (his life defies the > human condition) and finding some way to express gratitude and remorse deep > within. > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 8:05 AM Eric Charl

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

han a world in which I stand talking > non-sense to a bunch of students for a pretty good salary while others of > my generation to get shot at in Vietnam for peanuts? Ditto you and Iraq. > > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > htt

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

>> >> >> >> Nick Thompson >> >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2021 10:06 AM >> *To:* The

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

"The fact that you agree with the policies and actions does not mitigate the harm caused." This seems to be a recurring theme in conversations I am having recently, in several venues. I make a factual claim about damages caused by a policy/action/decision. Someone objects to the factual claim beca

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

raid of diversity? Scared of my own shadow? I > honestly don't know. > > > On 9/2/21 7:22 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > The signal to the welfare rancher is “Find a new line of work and quit > your whining.” > > > >> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:05 AM, Eric Ch

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

t; many pull-ups as I'd like. And Dave can't navigate to hot springs. Big > deal. Get over it. > > > On 9/2/21 9:45 AM, Eric Charles wrote: > > I'm interested in what's behind that "obsolete" and "left behind" talk. > Usually I see that ki

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

I mean... I feel like "discovery" if the first challenge for your classification system to justify... ;- ) On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 11:24 AM wrote: > Colleagues, > > > > Years ago, my daughter, who knows I hate to shop, bought me a bunch of > plain T-shirts. The label’s on the shirts were printed,

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Why are we parsing discoveries into those two types? I think traditionally, "mathematical" would have been synonymous with "rigorous deduction groin a minimal number of axioms", but I doubt that approach is clear cut anymore. Given that you claim to have sussed out your insight via systematic *e

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

As I said a few days ago: I think traditionally, "mathematical" would have been synonymous with "rigorous deduction from a minimal number of axioms", but I doubt that approach is clear cut anymore. I am pretty confident that modern mathematics is WAY more open-field than that. The Stanford Encyc

Re: [FRIAM] Calling Bullshit

If one were being generous with her (not sure why we would, but "if"), then she is correct, in so much as modern "conservative" politics is only loosely related to the tradition of "originalist" jurisprudence. Modern "conservative" politics wants judges that agree with their agenda, not judges that

Re: [FRIAM] Calling Bullshit

"Originalism", in this context, is a label for a particular tradition of textual interpretation, when faced with current legal challenges. Haggling over the exact label that would be appropriate isn't as useful as it seems. The tradition in question strives to determine the intent of the laws at th

Re: [FRIAM] Calling Bullshit

Typically a "shadow docket" denial usually only has a paragraph or two explaining why the case will not be heard. I'm not sure I've even seen one with a full majority opinion. It is not unusual to have a short dessent, but 4 dessents seems highly unusual. Of course, I'm an amature at this, so other

Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc

That is a really good article. Oddly well balanced, veering at times one direction or another, then correcting. Coulda been tightened up a bit... but if that's my only criticism, that's pretty high praise! On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 4:33 AM ⛧ glen wrote: > The New Puritans > > https://www.theat

Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc

Nick man sometimes you are so old and Puritanical-New-England-ey it is hilarious. "Hey everyone! Let's imagine that there wasn't a $50 *billion* dollar industry producing sex toy... ok... if that didn't exist, how would we invent one?" Like should I send you links of people in public p

Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc

went on pressing the bar until they starved to death. The > evolutionary meaning of pleasure is what it leads you to do. Everything > else is just spandrel. > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress

Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc

"Re: your claim that monism unifies epistemology and ontology" I wouldn't phrase it that way. I would say that there is no meaningful distinction between epistemology, ontology, and metaphysics, and that if they appear to be different that is a sign of confusion. You can approach the same subject

Re: [FRIAM] That was fun!

Those are very useful. You should have one. On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 3:01 PM wrote: > I can buy this car travel adapter for 16 bucks and it will come tomorrow. > Shall I bite? > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/Buywhat-Inverter-Converter-Adapter-Computer/dp/B07QPS15YK/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywo

[FRIAM] Why you studying with them?

Seems relevant to some of our discussions of moral issues. .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRI

Re: [FRIAM] Revising the American Revolution

Wil Wheaton - best known for playing Wesley Crusher on Star Trek, and related appearances on Big Bang Theory - turns out to be a really cool guy, who went through some traumatic stuff during his childhood celebrity days. He gave a relevant answer to a fan question on this topic: Q: I have more of

Re: [FRIAM] lurking

I DID read all the thread so far... but I'm curious how we got to one of the starting points: "as cringy as it may be for some dork to be proud of their Poker prowess" I am somewhat satisfied with my Poker mediocrity, certainly not proud of it... but if I met someone who was ACTUALLY startlingly b

Re: [FRIAM] best microphone?

I got a Yeti Pro last summer and have been very happy with it. It comes with software that will gate and suppress, as well as several other features. If you're doing high end recording, it might not work, but it's been just fine reducing normal home sounds from the background for my purposes. Altho

Re: [FRIAM] lurking

gt; On Nov 7, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > My inclination would be to invest in standoff biometrics (e.g. Eulerian > Video Amplification) and then find the best poker playing code. It ought > to be possible to automate and perhaps get rich in the process. > > *From:* Fr

Re: [FRIAM] lurking

nd that was entirely >> overshadowed by the social-engineering games of bluffing, etc. The very >> simple game-theoretic aspect of not depleting your own stake before you >> catch a "lucky streak" going your way was also a good understanding. I >> played with my &

Re: [FRIAM] RADICAL embodied cognitive science

Nick, Have you ever seen 4 people playing a game of bridge? I saw that once, snapped my fingers to freeze time, and moved them each to be in rooms identical to the one they started in, but each in a different state. Weirdly enough, the game did not continue. It turns out that while the game of brid

Re: [FRIAM] lurking

ever lost/won was on the > order of $20-$40 which in those days was roughly 1-2 shifts wages... a LOT > if I joined them weekly... too rich for my blood! I still feel that > *technically* playing well really means just playing less badly. > Blackjack being even more obviously so? > > >

Re: [FRIAM] lurking

>> space-time decomposition (an N-1xN-1 kernel over the 4 positions at each >> "zoom" level). >> >> Regarding poker.. I played some low-stakes in college and saw there were >> two things to take in: the main technical skill was to simply play less >> p

[FRIAM] P Zombie Couches

Inspired by conversation in FRIAM a few weeks ago, I finally finished my overdue blog post on the mystery of Philosophical Zombie Couches. Fixing Psychology: Deep thoughts: P Zombie Couches I wrote several years a

Re: [FRIAM] WAS: P Zombie Couches

I would say that Peirce is concerned with determining what is true in this actual world. That water decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen in a certain ratio under certain experimental conditions, is the type of thing we will (presumably) continue to agree about until the end times, i.e., it is "true"

Re: [FRIAM] Has anybody been lookiung at covid numbers

I haven't looked up Santa Fe's numbers specifically... but if it is anything like national numbers, the difference is that last year we were in the early stages of a massive uptick, and this year we are in the middle of a rapid fall off (with the recent cold snaps having no noticeable effect). If y

Re: [FRIAM] Has anybody been lookiung at covid numbers

n, Nov 21, 2021 at 1:10 AM wrote: > Hmmm! https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html > > > > Are we looking at the same data? > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/ntho

Re: [FRIAM] WAS: P Zombie Couches

Oh, I like the potential connection with Cantor. I hadn't thought of it that way before! I think the interesting distinction there is that Cantor offered a proof that there was always at least one more number than could be counted. Mathematicians went nuts over it (I knew it was bad, but not t

Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

Ah I've been looking for something in this to latch onto! Glen -> "The word "epiphenomenon" is loaded with expectation/intention. It works quite well in artificial systems where we can simply assume it was designed for a purpose. But in "natural" systems (like the hyena case), if we use that co

Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

From this thin introduction I think I find > Yagasawa's extension of possible worlds being distributed on a modal > dimension rather than isolated space-time structures (yet) more > compelling/useful? > > And what would Candide <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildungsroman&

Re: [FRIAM] A thread for why did we first eat or drink that?

In my imagination... Step 1: Some random ancient male, "Ow! This Horrible!" Step 2: Later, that random dude and a bunch of other dudes, "Ogg, you try this, so good, yummy yum!" 2 minutes later, the entire group as Ogg cries in a corner, "Ahahahahahaha! We get Zogg next! Hey Zogg, you try this, so g

Re: [FRIAM] Screening off

If 1 co-occurs with 2 50% of the time, and 2 co-occurs with 3 50% of the time, and that 1 never occurs with 3 except when 2 has occurred, then: * Given 1 happens, then you would guess that 3 will happen 25% of the time. * But if you knew whether or not 1 had caused 2 in a particular instance, you c

[FRIAM] Simplifying networks and matrixes

I obviously can't deep dive into this, but it seems like the type of thing that gets people at FRIAM interested 62 year old problem solved... https://a//www.dailyo.in/technology/indian-mathematician-cracks-1959-problem-and-ramanujan-graphs/story/1/34929.html *THE 1959 KADISON-SINGER PROBLEM

Re: [FRIAM] Dear Long Suffering Colleagues

As repeatedly hammered in the excellent book "Beyond Versus", Sober is conflating two things: 1) A does not cause C except through B. (A-> B -> C with no other arrows) 2) In this data set, knowledge of B lets us predict C exactly as well as we can predict it with combined knowledge of B & knowled

Re: [FRIAM] bad covid story

It's weird how many ways this can be dystopian all at the same time. Under the assumption, that it is obvious what Nick replied "Yuck!" at, let me add: - It is pretty easy to explain to people that ICU's require masks regardless of Covid, that a cold could kill some other ICU patient who is

Re: [FRIAM] bad covid story

to face) has died. > Perhaps you're so immune to empathy that you would maintain a perfect > computing inference machine in your head in spite of the people dying in > the hallways. But normal people aren't that psychopathic. Cheers to you. > > But, yeah, it's fine. Nothi

Re: [FRIAM] bad covid story

lets like patients' > family members prescribing meds that nurses will administer. Really? > Sheesh.) If you cannot get us, practically, from where we are now to that > less cruel place, then you're just blowing idealist smoke. > > > On 12/27/21 09:18, Eric Charles wrote: >

Re: [FRIAM] bad covid story

insurance? Should they carry guns? > > Pffft. As I said, you're being ridiculously idealistic. It's fine to > engage in wishful thinking and dream of unicorns. But don't use that as an > excuse for idiots who cause more problems than they solve. Moreover, don't >

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

This always struck me as such a weird discussion. I've had people try to drag me into it a few times. If there was ever the slightest change that something could come from nothing, and nothing was around for long enough, eventually something would come from it. But, I think the better point is s

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

ordering in time be > probabilistic but ordering in space NOT be? > > Identifying that conflict in my own thinking helps. Thanks. > > On 12/29/21 11:44, Eric Charles wrote: > > This always struck me as such a weird discussion. I've had people try to > drag me into it

Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

Re potential evolutionary explanations for homosexuality: They really don't have to be very convoluted at all. I prepared a worksheet for a class 15 or so years ago, after a bunch of students starting trying use homosexuality as proof that evolution couldn't explain (any) behavior. I'd rather just

Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

ve of offspring than groups without. > Think > Slime molds. > > I wasn’t sure that erics #3 isn’t so much an alternative as the cultural > level description of the consequences of the others. > > > > N > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > ht

Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

right. >> >> >> >> Perhaps bonobo sexuality is the primitive state. >> >> >> >> “Bub” >> >> >> >> Nick Thompson >> >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >

Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

; > n > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles > *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:02 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coff

[FRIAM] AI "conquered" poker

A decent NY Times article on AI in the Poker space. It wasn't paywalled for me. How AI Conquered Poker (www-nytimes-com.translate.goog) .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. ---

Re: [FRIAM] AI "conquered" poker

rive around in a circle. Especially since they have to limit > the car designs. Now this I would watch: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdG-iTilWU > > -- > *From:* Friam on behalf of Eric Charles < > eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com> > *Sen

Re: [FRIAM] Communication guides for the elderly

And, of course, that brilliant routine about "shit" from a few years ago: the word shit - YouTube On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 2:07 PM Stephen Guerin wrote: > On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 11:17 AM Stephen Guerin < > stephen.gue...@simtable.com> wrote: > >> a

Re: [FRIAM] Training your value network

Given the history of Kyu and Don rankings, the phrase "Amatuer 5th Don" is highly amusing. Very cool video. It is hard for me to imagine a game of chess in which players resign with so many moves left. Admittedly, I've only played very amatuer chess, but hoping-your-opponent-screw-up would seemed

Re: [FRIAM] words RE: words

" because, then truly, “Knowedge Extinguishes Emergence.” Well there are attempts to define emergence as what happens when the phenomena at higher levels *could not *be predicted from knowledge of the lower levels alone. Probably that definition involves a lot of question begging, and seems t

Re: [FRIAM] capitalism vs. individualism

> > "You hold the child in your arms and you croon, “Everything is going to be > all right”. You might do that when “there is a goblin under the bed.” You > might also do it when the plane in which are riding is hurtling toward the > ground. The fact that you do the same in both sorts of situati

Re: [FRIAM] capitalism vs. individualism

" A nihilist might adopt a campaign slogan like Any Functioning Adult 2020, because the truly objectionable things are incompetence and stupidity. " But there's the rub in this conversation. "Any Functioning Adult 2020" could be intended as a joke, pointing out that the current president is so in

Re: [FRIAM] A pluralistic model of the mind?

Nick, Your need to complicate things is fascinating. You are a monist. You are a monist is the sense of not thinking that "mental" things and "physical" things are made of different stuffs. At that point, you can throw a new word in the mix (e.g., 'experience', 'neutral stuff'), or you can throw yo

Re: [FRIAM] [EXT] Re: A pluralistic model of the mind?

and Eric, > > I am grappling with Nick's ideas that mental states must be physical > things and even are "out there" rather than "in here". What about > delusions? If I think I see bear in the woods but I am mistaken, is this > false perception "out t

Re: [FRIAM] [EXT] Re: A pluralistic model of the mind?

"Does this mean there are 2 stuffs, some that converge and some that don't? ... some distributions are stationary and some are not?" If we are actually done with the first question (which I don't think we are), this is a perfect next question! I would say that there are not two *kinds* of stuff, b

Re: [FRIAM] [EXT] Re: A pluralistic model of the mind?

ish.com > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [EXT] Re: A pluralistic model of the mind? > > > > I dare not really speak for Nick, but I think the essence of his position > is that there is no "out there" nor is there any "in here." There is only a > flow of "ex

Re: [FRIAM] [EXT] Re: A pluralistic model of the mind?

Ok I'm going to try to do a better take on the "ineffable" issue. I want to start by admitting that there is some sense in which ANYTHING I want to describe is never fully described by the words I use, in some reasonable use of the word "fully." If I see a turtle, and I tell you that I saw a tu

Re: [FRIAM] [EXT] Re: A pluralistic model of the mind?

I think the effableness is a red herring. "Last night I ate spaghetti" doesn't fully and completely explain exactly what happened last night... but we all agree that I used words to describe a thing that is not "ineffable". So far, no argument has been offered to demonstrate that Dave's conversatio

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 198, Issue 15

Or what Burks says Gödel said anyway -- Theory of Self-Reproducing >>> Automata >>> >>> On 12/11/19 1:58 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>> > >>> > Last summer I spoke with God. The effects were profound and obvious to >>> all. Many of the effec

Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 198, Issue 15

; > > > > Not only was the "Thing" effectual, it is, within statistical limits, > possible to predict the nature and degree of the effects that ensue from > "Thing-Occurrence." Moreover, it is possible to establish an "experimental > context" whereby othe

Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model

"Absent a "true" description at its root, a theory becomes a Jenga tower of speculation" Ah, I see you've been to an American Psychological Association conference! That aside... ;- ) thank you for this excellent critique! I will endeavor to do it justice in reply when I get to a real compute

Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model

Well, for what it's worth, I have a strong taste for Schadenfreud... The weird merger of pragmatic and postmodern thinking always bristles me. I can see how Rorty gets there, selectively taking from William James and others, but it is all so... dystopic. I don't think Peirce would have any proble

[FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply

[Eric] A much belated larded reply to David's generous comment regarding the description-explanation issue. [David] Lacking the wit tore- weave the argument that has unraveled into several threads and posts; an attempt to begin afresh from one of the points of origin - the Introduction to a

Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply

There is an interesting issue that often comes up in these contexts, in which someone asserts that the models mean something all on their own. If it is someone who has picked up our language, they might, for example, ask "What does the model intend? The Model, itself? " Glen does this by saying

Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply

a model, it is > a case of a model intending a model, right? So, models intend, right? So > why not just say so, in the first instance. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > thomp

Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply

Glen, I mean... assuming I know what you mean by "obtuse"... which I'm not sure of... an "obtuse model" could be useful for many, many things... but the more obtuse it is, the less one can science with it... so it is not useful regarding where the future chapter of that book are headed. I would rea

Re: [FRIAM] question for pragmatists and Piercians among us

Well, gosh, now Nick has me all confused... Dave, when you say that Peirce can't help with "knowledge", are you invoking some continental-philosophy notion of "definitively-correct, fully-justified true belief"? Or are you instead talking about whatever people are talking about when they *claim* t

Re: [FRIAM] A longer response to Dave's question

Assertion: > 1. Since Christ has never been proved to have existed, it seems to me (as > a non-psychologist) those consuming his 'blood' religiously appear as > victims/participants of group mass delusions reinforced by their regular > shared consumption of a narcotic in a controlled environment r

Re: [FRIAM] A longer response to Dave's question

If we are willing to go back and forth a bit between being philosophers and psychologists for a moment, there are far more interesting things to talk about regarding "altered states" here are the some of the issues: 1. When someone claims to be responding to something, we should believe

Re: [FRIAM] A longer response to Dave's question

red. > > > > Is there an approach to thinking about my "stuff" that would, at minimum, > enable more consistent discovery of examples like Eric cites in #8 of his > list. Would it not be useful to be able to quickly identify and focus on > insights with the potential

Re: [FRIAM] A longer response to Dave's question

if you're as > frightened as Nick by such, you can still consider donations. E.g. > https://maps.org/ > > > > On 2/24/20 7:56 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > > I would argue that it is possible to "direct" or "contextualize" a > hallucinogen induce

[FRIAM] All models are wrong - modeling Covid-19

Most of you probably know the site Five Thirty Eight, which emerged over the last few election cycles as the top nerdy polling / public-opinion-modeling site. Some of you know SMBC, which has spent quite a few years towards the top of the pantheon of nerd comics. Well, the two collaborated on a lon

Re: [FRIAM] anthropological observations

Nick says - Nate constantly says that making such predictions is, strictly speaking, not his job. As long as what happens falls within the error of his prediction, he feels justified in having made it. He will say things like, "actually we were right." I would prefer him to say

Re: [FRIAM] anthropological observations

logist American University - Adjunct Instructor On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 2:32 PM wrote: > So, Eric [Charles], > > > > What exactly were the *practicial* consequences of declaring that Hillary > was “probably” going to win the election or that a full house was probably > going t

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Yeah Nick have you ever thought of writing a book?!? --- Eric P. Charles, Ph.D. Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist American University - Adjunct Instructor On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 6:12 PM Jochen Fromm wrote: > Hi Nick, > > have you thought about turning your ideas abo

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

wadded up pieces of paper wadded > around the wastebasket. > > N > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > >

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

e that one cannot simultaneously believe that all thinking is > metaphorical and *not* admit to some form of the hard problem. > > > On 4/29/20 10:11 AM, Eric Charles wrote: > > I think we should take the inadequacy of the wasteba

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Glen said: " I've disagreed with this point before... I think we can and do model things we don't understand with other things we don't understand... E.g. if a child uses, say, styrofoam balls to model the solar system..." I think this might be some sort of linguistic slippage here. Do you agree w

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Glen said "So the problem of qualia and, say, whether or not we could build a machine that *enjoys* playing the piano, you fall in the camp of the strong-AI people. We can definitely build a machine that thinks and feels just like a human. Is that right?" To paraphrase Nick's answer: Yes, of cours

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

heory has taught us anything, it's that problems can > seem quite different, but really be about the same thing. The very fact > that we can have the discussion we're having is an indication that there is > a "hard problem" and that it can act as a foil for choosing one&

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Quite a few things suddenly going on here 1) The "can computers act?" thing is a bit of a red herring, I think. We would be more obviously where we want to be by talking about robots, instead of computers. We could then separately discuss the issue of overt vs covert behavior (which has been p

Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve

Glen said: "Were I to try to formulate the school I'm in, it would be that we are a dynamic system and the locus that we call "mind" moves around, sometimes more or less in one place/time, sometimes spread very thin. And that dynamism would be critical." So, there are a few varieties of that right

[FRIAM] Movement vs. Behavior, and what's in the Black Box

Glen said: In principle, if EricC's principle is taken seriously, the inner world of a black box device will be *completely* represented on its surface. Any information not exhibited by a black box's *behavior* will be lost/random. David said: Machine "behavior" is either a metaphor or an error

Re: [FRIAM] Neutral Theory: The Null Hypothesis of Molecular Evolution | Learn Science at Scitable

When you have a decently-fitted organism in a long-term stable environment (evolutionary time scale), natural section should be mostly selecting for least effort, right? Within biological constraints of various kinds. The various break adaptations of "Darwin's finches" are least-effort solutions

Re: [FRIAM] Movement vs. Behavior, and what's in the Black Box

Ok, so it sounds like we agree there is a distinction can be made between behavior and "mere movement". So what is that difference? I would argue, following E. B. Holt, that it is the presence of intentionality. Note crucially that the directedness of the behavior described below is descriptive, *n

Re: [FRIAM] Movement vs. Behavior, and what's in the Black Box

say, the hidden states of an antenna? If we could characterize purely >> *passive* behavior/movement, we might be able to characterize *reactive* >> movement. And if we do that, then we can talk about the complicatedness (or >> complexity) of more general *transformations* fro

Re: [FRIAM] Movement vs. Behavior, and what's in the Black Box

vior/movement, we might be able to characterize *reactive* > movement. And if we do that, then we can talk about the complicatedness (or > complexity) of more general *transformations* from input to output. And > then we might be able to talk about I⇔O maps whose internal state can (or >

Re: [FRIAM] Patriotic Millionaires

While some of the goals of groups like "Patriotic Millionaires" are admirable, I can never get past the blatant hypocrisy of it all. Maybe "hypocrisy" isn't exactly the right term. You could also see the part that bugs me as a bizarre worship of the benefits of authority over individual choice. Let

Re: [FRIAM] academic freedom

"why is it a topic people want to talk about, and why do they have strong feelings and opinions?" I have a two part answer. First for "normal people" and then for myself. Well I assume a big part of the answer for normal peolpe... which is usually neglected... is how much of society is still

Re: [FRIAM] Patriotic Millionaires

f. > > Melinda Gates said that if you're a billionaire you can donate half of > your assets without any impact on your lifestyle. But that's a different > question. > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > >

Re: [FRIAM] Patriotic Millionaires

ws. They advocated government > regulation. Commonality being that a taxation or regulation impacts them > and their competitors in the same way, so their effective power and > influence won’t be negatively impacted. “Don’t ask me to be a chump.” > > On Mar 6, 2022, at 8:02 PM, Er

Re: [FRIAM] Patriotic Millionaires

ses will be out of reach without spreading the cost around, > even over thousands of millionaires. > > On Mar 7, 2022, at 6:04 AM, Eric Charles > wrote: > >  > Marcus, > Let's say you have a neighbor who's always talking about wanting to > support the girl scout

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