Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
On Oct 16, 8:56 pm, Kris Tilford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: of $99 1 TB HDs (10¢ per GB) There's a $99 TB HD available? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
At 7:47 PM -0700 10/16/2008, Paul wrote: The Java updates are large, but seem to be incremental, with later updates requiring earlier updates to be installed. hum. Thought they were monolithic. I have other questions about Java: 1. What version should I have on an OS 10.4.11 installation. The latest Java for Mac OS X 10.4 is release 7. The actual build is: Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_16-b06-275) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_16-132, mixed mode) I got the machine from someone else *bzt* Stop. At this point, you have no idea what has been done to that system. The previous owner might have been deleting things, installing keyloggers, etc. Backup your data. Erase the drive. Do a clean installation of OS X. Then let Software Update roll it up to the latest. My guess is that I don't need 1.3, but is it worth removing, and how would I do it, anyway? Leave it be. Java is one of those environments that changes from release to release. You come up on an applet that for some dumb reason requires the older... and you've deleted it,,, then you're going to waste time trying to figure out why it's crashing. The installation as-is, lets the applet pick which release to use. 2. If I install 10.4 from scratch, and update to 10.4.11 with one file, what Java updates should I apply? Let Software Update do it. It should pick release 7. With Java, I'm used to the PC world, where you go to a Sun website In the Windoze world there are two Java engines: There's the illegal abomination created by MS. Then there's the legit, er a lawsuit settlement, release you get from Sun. Apple has no such legal problem. They take Sun's Java, fix it up, and provide it directly to us. HTH, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
On Oct 17, 2008, at 1:17 AM, Dan wrote: The latest Java for Mac OS X 10.4 is release 7. The actual build is: Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_16- b06-275) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_16-132, mixed mode) And for Leopard it's: Java For Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2 (1.0) Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_16- b06-284) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_16-133, mixed mode, sharing) This gets complicated, since these should be identical versions, but differently compiled for Tiger and Leopard. I assume this means the Panther users get left behind? MacTracker says Tiger 10.4 was released April 29, 2005, so that means Apple is dropping Panther support at less than 3.5 years, and even sooner for Safari. Conversely, the latest Java update for Windows, v.1.6 release 10 (notice our Macs are one major release and ten incremental releases behind Windows) still supports Windows 2000 which was released February 17, 2000 over five full years before Panther, and 8.75 years ago. I don't think that Apple should abandon Panther users so quickly. While 8.75+ years may be slightly excessive time to support an OS, roughly 3 years is too short I think? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
At 2:10 AM -0500 10/17/2008, Kris Tilford wrote: This gets complicated, since these should be identical versions, but differently compiled for Tiger and Leopard. yes. Big disparity growing T vs L... Much of the issue is within Xcode (Apple's development package). In addition to big framework differences, There are some bugs in Xcode that require workarounds - and developers are loathe to retrofit things. I assume this means the Panther users get left behind? Probably. Conversely, the latest Java update for Windows, v.1.6 release 10 (notice our Macs are one major release and ten incremental releases behind Windows) still supports Windows 2000 which was released February 17, 2000 over five full years before Panther, and 8.75 years ago. Yup. In this particular case, *Apple* has marginalized us. This is becoming typical of Apple-released updates. They're getting farther and farther behind the curve. IMO, it's totally unacceptable. 99% of the development and debugging work is being done by the open source community. For Apple to lag us so badly on so many products... just disgusting. I fear this is a sign of things to come. And it will be a serious liability when the virus market for OS X heats up. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
On Oct 17, 2008, at 12:10 AM, Kris Tilford wrote: I don't think that Apple should abandon Panther users so quickly. While 8.75+ years may be slightly excessive time to support an OS, roughly 3 years is too short I think? Sadly, it's not likely. You remember how big a change 10.1 to 10.2 was, right? They essentially rewrote OS X almost from scratch. 10.3 to 10.4 was a change on that scale, just under the hood where you don't see it. A HUGE number of the underlying OS and GUI libs were rewritten and re- arranged between 10.3 and 10.4. They might as well be two distantly related OSes from a programming point of view. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
On Oct 17, 2008, at 4:19 AM, g3-5-list group wrote: == 2 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:56 pm From: Kris Tilford This is all correct I believe, except the OS X update statement you can take your pick when you download, depending on how much updating you want to do. If you've been updating incrementally, the next increment, and the next Combo should get you to exactly the same place, so they'll both update you identically if you were currently up- to-date beforehand. The need for the Combo (cumulative) update is for skipping one or all previous increments and going directly to the latest version without having to do each incremental update. Since Apple offers all increments and Combo updates continuously, you could take your pick by choosing to stop short of the current version, but if you're only updating a single increment, using the Combo would be a waste of time, although I always keep a copy of the latest Combo Up I have read in these lists that a few users have had problems using incremental updates and have resolved them by using the Combo. So, If i have neglected to update incrementally, say for two or three versions, I'll always use the Combo. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
I want to confirm my impression of how 3 different kinds of update work: 1. Security Update 2. OS X Update 3. Java update The Security Update seems to be a large file that is only available as a cumulative update, so all previous versions are superseded. The OS X updates seem to come in two flavors - cumulative and incremental, so you can take your pick when you download, depending on how much updating you want to do. The Java updates are large, but seem to be incremental, with later updates requiring earlier updates to be installed. I have other questions about Java: 1. What version should I have on an OS 10.4.11 installation. I got the machine from someone else, and it seems to have Java 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. My guess is that I don't need 1.3, but is it worth removing, and how would I do it, anyway? 2. If I install 10.4 from scratch, and update to 10.4.11 with one file, what Java updates should I apply? With Java, I'm used to the PC world, where you go to a Sun website and only download the latest updated version you want - for example, the latest 1.4 or the latest 1.6. I run only the latest release of Java 1.6. That seems simpler to me, and the downloads are a lot smaller - 20 MB for each release, rather than Apple's multiple 80 MB update files. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Confusion about the different update files from Apple (including Java)
On Oct 16, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Paul wrote: I want to confirm my impression of how 3 different kinds of update work: 1. Security Update 2. OS X Update 3. Java update The Security Update seems to be a large file that is only available as a cumulative update, so all previous versions are superseded. The OS X updates seem to come in two flavors - cumulative and incremental, so you can take your pick when you download, depending on how much updating you want to do. The Java updates are large, but seem to be incremental, with later updates requiring earlier updates to be installed. This is all correct I believe, except the OS X update statement you can take your pick when you download, depending on how much updating you want to do. If you've been updating incrementally, the next increment, and the next Combo should get you to exactly the same place, so they'll both update you identically if you were currently up- to-date beforehand. The need for the Combo (cumulative) update is for skipping one or all previous increments and going directly to the latest version without having to do each incremental update. Since Apple offers all increments and Combo updates continuously, you could take your pick by choosing to stop short of the current version, but if you're only updating a single increment, using the Combo would be a waste of time, although I always keep a copy of the latest Combo Update just in case I can't connect, and need it in an emergency. I have other questions about Java: 1. What version should I have on an OS 10.4.11 installation. I got the machine from someone else, and it seems to have Java 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. My guess is that I don't need 1.3, but is it worth removing, and how would I do it, anyway? I don't think you can remove the older versions? I think I tried that once, and then found I need the old version for websites that had java apps built on older versions. I think they coexist and the version needed will run? 2. If I install 10.4 from scratch, and update to 10.4.11 with one file, what Java updates should I apply? I've never seen Software Update make an error in terms of offering a wrong update, or forgetting to offer a needed update. Even if you need or prefer to download the updates separately, using Software Update to tell you what is needed is easiest, and error free as far as I know. With Java, I'm used to the PC world, where you go to a Sun website and only download the latest updated version you want - for example, the latest 1.4 or the latest 1.6. I run only the latest release of Java 1.6. That seems simpler to me, and the downloads are a lot smaller - 20 MB for each release, rather than Apple's multiple 80 MB update files. Complaining about 80MB vs 20MB in this era of $99 1 TB HDs (10¢ per GB) seems outdated. I'd be more concerned about functionality and that Mac Java version releases lag so far behind equivalent Windows versions. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
