Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: However, Windows phones home with the info and serial number when you connect to the internet. Yes, when you authenticate. If you don't authenticate then after some period (30 days?? for Win 7??) then as you say, it turns into a pumpkin. And admittedly it'll probably be a damn nuisance to use before that by nagging you to authenticate. OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS: they're identical. My understanding is that the same thing is true for Windows 7 DVDs. You get the same DVD whatever version you buy. Which software is installed and enabled from the DVD depends on what serial number you enter. (What you get before you enter a serial number I have no idea. Who has the patience to waste time trying to find out?) Remember: http://tinyurl.com/26rd5rg The thing that I never see people talk about is that everything Microsoft does by way of authentication is neither free nor a one-time expense. They continually pay to support their authentication function. Obviously there is the cost of keeping the authentication servers running and paying for the people who answer the authentication line phones. (Though last time I did this that also was automated). They also pay to develop all this crap and to constantly tweak and tune it because it's so damn annoying to their customers. And of course it has to always be tested and tested and tested again. Tangible and intangible, there are a lot of non-trivial costs to keeping the whole mess up and running. Microsoft must have decided ... to the extent any company can make a decision about a way of doing business that has so much history behind it ... that the benefit is worth the cost. Apple doesn't have to. They just sell the discs and don't waste money on tracking how those discs get used. It's a big PITA and distraction that Apple is not burdened with. Looking at Apple's growth I believe that this decision hasn't hurt their profitability in any way. If the folks at Apple ever change their mind about this, then you'll see them do something to control over how many different machines a single copy of OS X can be installed on. Maybe they'll go the MS route or maybe something completely different. But they'll change if they think it's costing them serious money if they don't change. Apple doesn't trust or not trust their customers. We're not on some fantasy honor system ... though I infer enough people who buy OS X discs have been honorable enough. It's just not worth that much to Apple to be annoying PITAes about the OS X installs. And I thank deity. for that!! -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:45 PM, iJohn wrote: The thing that I never see people talk about is that everything Microsoft does by way of authentication is neither free nor a one-time expense. They continually pay to support their authentication function. Obviously there is the cost of keeping the authentication servers running and paying for the people who answer the authentication line phones. (Though last time I did this that also was automated). They also pay to develop all this crap and to constantly tweak and tune it because it's so damn annoying to their customers. And of course it has to always be tested and tested and tested again. Actually, not so much. I'd wager 90-95% of Microsoft OS sales are directly to OEM's. The average user, turning on their Dell for the first time is walked through connecting to the internet, and authentication happens then, with little or no interaction with the user. People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them. MS wants to keep Dell, HP and Lenovo happy. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
This is not true. The only thing that is different about the distribution of Windows 7 from XP and Vista is that the DVDs contain both the 32-bit and the x64 version of code. There are still individual discs for Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise. From: iJohn zjboyguard-ggro...@yahoo.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 7:45:13 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc??? On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: However, Windows phones home with the info and serial number when you connect to the internet. Yes, when you authenticate. If you don't authenticate then after some period (30 days?? for Win 7??) then as you say, it turns into a pumpkin. And admittedly it'll probably be a damn nuisance to use before that by nagging you to authenticate. OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS: they're identical. My understanding is that the same thing is true for Windows 7 DVDs. You get the same DVD whatever version you buy. Which software is installed and enabled from the DVD depends on what serial number you enter. (What you get before you enter a serial number I have no idea. Who has the patience to waste time trying to find out?) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them. Actually, I also believe not so much but from a different perspective. :-) I have limited experience with PC notebooks. In particular I don't know how Microsoft does Windows 7 notebook (re)installs. The last PC laptop I reinstalled XP on (using the media that came with it) I don't believe even bothered to ask me to authenticate. At the very least the install media appeared to just know that the install was to an HP notebook, hence the Windows tax had been paid, so there was no need to bother about asking for a license key. (The key was there on the sticker on the laptop if needed. But I'm pretty sure I never had to enter it). If the vast majority of Windows installs were all the PC world equivalent of reinstalling the version of OS X that came with a MacBook then I doubt MS would bother with the hoops. But Windows folk still have to dance through those hoops so I infer that MS thinks it's financially worth it to them to keep polishing them. I'll grant you that individual home user upgraders, DIY boxes, and/or small businesses are probably not as big of a concern for MS. But if you're going down authentication avenue you can't do it in pieces. Aside from special cases such as notebooks with special install media, it's all installs or nothing, no? Probably MS's main concern is preventing an entire IT installation from (re)using a pirated install key. But there's also the so-called BRICs ... Brasil, Russia, India, China and such. The thought/hope of turning even a fraction of the Windows piracy in those countries into actual revenue must be, uh, an exciting thought for the MS accountants. Microsoft appears to me to be obsessed with two conflicting goals: to limit Windows installs to one machine per paid license and to not annoy their customers unless said customers are from MS's perspective trying to steal from MS. It's got to be a lot of (costly?) work on their end. And I believe they wouldn't bother with it unless they thought the company benefited. Which is not the same thing as saying the company DOES benefit from it. I'm only saying I think MS has convinced itself that it's worth doing. And I think when Apple does that calculation they must be getting a different answer. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Albert Carter slvrmoonti...@yahoo.com wrote: This is not true. The only thing that is different about the distribution of Windows 7 from XP and Vista is that the DVDs contain both the 32-bit and the x64 version of code. There are still individual discs for Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise. Really? Then how does the MS Anytime Upgrade work? Say I wanted to take my version of Home Premium to the Ultimate of Foolishness. Supposedly I go online and purchase a license for Ultimate, then enter the new license key, and poof I'm upgraded. You may think they're going to download all the changes to the OS via the Internet, but that is not my understanding of how it works. I have no way to test this personally though since there is no way in heck I'd ever upgrade my flavor of Win 7. But you were also indirectly correct in pointing out an error I made. Actually my retail copy of Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade has two DVDs. One DVD is for the 32-bit flavor and the other is for the 64-bit. My bad. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
{Manager Comment] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???
[ I am top-posting because of the length of the following Off-Topic message. ] It appears that this thread has just about run its course. Discussions about PC notebooks, or most other laptops, installations of Windows 7, whatever version, authentication by Microsoft, etc., etc., are irrelevant to the OP's inquiry, and way Off-Topic for this Group. Unless I can be convinced otherwise, I hereby declare this thread CLOSED. Please refrain from posting further ON-GROUP comments, and convey any more thoughts only to me by direct private messages. Your cooperation will be appreciated. Fabian Fang LEM G-Group Manager On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:13 PM, iJohn wrote: On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them. Actually, I also believe not so much but from a different perspective. :-) I have limited experience with PC notebooks. In particular I don't know how Microsoft does Windows 7 notebook (re)installs. The last PC laptop I reinstalled XP on (using the media that came with it) I don't believe even bothered to ask me to authenticate. At the very least the install media appeared to just know that the install was to an HP notebook, hence the Windows tax had been paid, so there was no need to bother about asking for a license key. (The key was there on the sticker on the laptop if needed. But I'm pretty sure I never had to enter it). If the vast majority of Windows installs were all the PC world equivalent of reinstalling the version of OS X that came with a MacBook then I doubt MS would bother with the hoops. But Windows folk still have to dance through those hoops so I infer that MS thinks it's financially worth it to them to keep polishing them. I'll grant you that individual home user upgraders, DIY boxes, and/or small businesses are probably not as big of a concern for MS. But if you're going down authentication avenue you can't do it in pieces. Aside from special cases such as notebooks with special install media, it's all installs or nothing, no? Probably MS's main concern is preventing an entire IT installation from (re)using a pirated install key. But there's also the so-called BRICs ... Brasil, Russia, India, China and such. The thought/hope of turning even a fraction of the Windows piracy in those countries into actual revenue must be, uh, an exciting thought for the MS accountants. Microsoft appears to me to be obsessed with two conflicting goals: to limit Windows installs to one machine per paid license and to not annoy their customers unless said customers are from MS's perspective trying to steal from MS. It's got to be a lot of (costly?) work on their end. And I believe they wouldn't bother with it unless they thought the company benefited. Which is not the same thing as saying the company DOES benefit from it. I'm only saying I think MS has convinced itself that it's worth doing. And I think when Apple does that calculation they must be getting a different answer. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
