Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
That is true. But in this thread, the CPU in question is a 500 MHZ OWC G4. Looking at the OWC Site it doesn't seem these were shipped with special heat sink, the installation instructions say to use you old one, (in both the beige, the BW (which have a smaller heat-sink) than the system here (The G4 with the larger heat-sink). I saw this once before on an intel PC. The user opted to continue to use the computer after the CPU fan failed. At some point the chip stressed and stopped working. Even after replacing the fan the cpu could no longer operate at its rated speed but would operate at a lower one. I don't know why that eluded me when I was looking at this from the start. I should have done this first thing. Lower to the clock speed to the lowest the board would allow and see if I could get the video up. Thanks! Gus. On Aug 6, 4:42 pm, Clark Martin cm...@sonic.net wrote: On 8/6/10 1:48 PM, Gus wrote: The Short Answer: Yes a bad cpu can give you a good Power On Self Test Chime. What you do is keep downclocking the CPU till it eventually gives you video and boots. You may even have to go to the lowest setting your motherboard allows before it does gives video and boots. If a CPU has been heat stressed in the past, it may say that it is a 500 MHZ processor, but may work just long enough to pass the P.O.S.T. and give a chime, and then lock up (at its 500 MHZ settings). Lower clock speed = less heat = more likely to boot. It's not just a matter of heat. The chip may just not be able to run at a given speed regardless of how hot it gets doing it. One suggestion, keep dropping the clock speed till it boots and works okay... then drop it one more. You may be right on the edge of it working okay and any little thing could push it over such as temperature. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
The Short Answer: Yes a bad cpu can give you a good Power On Self Test Chime. What you do is keep downclocking the CPU till it eventually gives you video and boots. You may even have to go to the lowest setting your motherboard allows before it does gives video and boots. If a CPU has been heat stressed in the past, it may say that it is a 500 MHZ processor, but may work just long enough to pass the P.O.S.T. and give a chime, and then lock up (at its 500 MHZ settings). Lower clock speed = less heat = more likely to boot. (For the archive). Thanks all that helped with this problem. Gus. On Jul 20, 2:19 am, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: System: G4 Yikes with 400mhz Processor clocked to 450 / 750 mb memory. a PC keyboard hooked to the USB port. PC mouse hooked to the USB port. I got this processor from ebay. Says it is a 500 mhz G4. DId a one for one swap with the G4 on my Yikes board. (left jumpers at 450). Chime, But no video. No turn over to open firmware. (no cd boot, no disk activity at all) Cant zap pram (think it is because of the PC Keyboard) But should I need to? Swapped the 400 mhz processor back in, and I get video right away. Boot turns over to open firmware and up it comes. I am not changing any jumpers during the swap and I I have a no boot cpu and the original cpu that boots fine. STRONGLY SUSPECT I HAVE A BAD CPU. BUT!!! I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. Is there something I am missing with this G4 - G4 swap? Thanks. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video. Thanks so much you guys.. You have always been here when I have needed help!!! Gus. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On 8/6/10 1:48 PM, Gus wrote: The Short Answer: Yes a bad cpu can give you a good Power On Self Test Chime. What you do is keep downclocking the CPU till it eventually gives you video and boots. You may even have to go to the lowest setting your motherboard allows before it does gives video and boots. If a CPU has been heat stressed in the past, it may say that it is a 500 MHZ processor, but may work just long enough to pass the P.O.S.T. and give a chime, and then lock up (at its 500 MHZ settings). Lower clock speed = less heat = more likely to boot. It's not just a matter of heat. The chip may just not be able to run at a given speed regardless of how hot it gets doing it. One suggestion, keep dropping the clock speed till it boots and works okay... then drop it one more. You may be right on the edge of it working okay and any little thing could push it over such as temperature. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
Well I sprung for a mac keyboard. It is an ugly apple pro keyboard v 1.22 that feels like someone soaked i in bleach to get it clean. After pulling keys and putting them in the right locations I hooked it up and was able to boot the yikes board into open firmware with the original G4 400 MHZ Processor and I can Get the three chimes when I hold down the cmd opt PR. Putting the 500 Mhz Processor in the slot I was not able to get the dual or thrice chimes when holding down the cmd-opt PR nor was I able to boot this into Open Firmware. Still No video on boot-up. Just the one chime. I can only conclude that this PPC G4 is no good. Any last idea's now that I have the keyboard? Thanks for all that contributed. Gus. On Jul 20, 2:19 am, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: System: G4 Yikes with 400mhz Processor clocked to 450 / 750 mb memory. a PC keyboard hooked to the USB port. PC mouse hooked to the USB port. I got this processor from ebay. Says it is a 500 mhz G4. DId a one for one swap with the G4 on my Yikes board. (left jumpers at 450). Chime, But no video. No turn over to open firmware. (no cd boot, no disk activity at all) Cant zap pram (think it is because of the PC Keyboard) But should I need to? Swapped the 400 mhz processor back in, and I get video right away. Boot turns over to open firmware and up it comes. I am not changing any jumpers during the swap and I I have a no boot cpu and the original cpu that boots fine. STRONGLY SUSPECT I HAVE A BAD CPU. BUT!!! I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. Is there something I am missing with this G4 - G4 swap? Thanks. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video. Thanks so much you guys.. You have always been here when I have needed help!!! Gus. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
See, this is the thing, a processor will run UNDER-CLOCKED better than it will OVER-CLOCKED. If I have a bootable system with a g4-450 mhz. Putting a 500 mhz processor in there without changing the jumper settings will only tell the 500 mhz processor to run at 450. Much like it tells the 400 processor that is in there to run at 450. For grins, I put a known bad 300 mhz g3 processor in there with no jumper settings change and it booted to the blue screen before it dumped. I did get the chime and video. So I really suspect this chip is bad even though the guy swears it came from a running system. Well, I bought a keyboard and mouse (apple brand) 10 days ago on ebay. I have sent the guy mail telling him his usb keyboard and mouse hasn't gotten here yet. Hopefully it is in the mail and will get here in the next day or so and I can see if the chip will reset pram and enter into open firmware. I will feel a lot better about it if it can do that. I looked on apples site to see if there were any firmware patches for the Yikes G4. I saw none for a G4 PCI computer. They were all for sawtooth and the such. There weren't any firmware hinderances in there to stop a 500 mhz chip from running in the yikes that I know about. Looking at all the upgrade sites I don't see any Yikes patches to allow a faster processor to be put in. They all seem to be plug and play. So I dunno what I am going to tell this guy. Wait for the keyboard and get more information I suppose. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
From my own experience a Pram zap may be what you need however If you can swap in the Known working cpu and zap the ram that way then that may help you to find out whether or not you have a bad cpu and not a pc keyboard issue. On Jul 20, 2010, at 12:19 AM, Gus wrote: System: G4 Yikes with 400mhz Processor clocked to 450 / 750 mb memory. a PC keyboard hooked to the USB port. PC mouse hooked to the USB port. I got this processor from ebay. Says it is a 500 mhz G4. DId a one for one swap with the G4 on my Yikes board. (left jumpers at 450). Chime, But no video.No turn over to open firmware. (no cd boot, no disk activity at all) Cant zap pram (think it is because of the PC Keyboard) But should I need to? Swapped the 400 mhz processor back in, and I get video right away. Boot turns over to open firmware and up it comes. I am not changing any jumpers during the swap and I I have a no boot cpu and the original cpu that boots fine. STRONGLY SUSPECT I HAVE A BAD CPU. BUT!!! I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. Is there something I am missing with this G4 - G4 swap? Thanks. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video. Thanks so much you guys.. You have always been here when I have needed help!!! Gus. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On 20/7/10 08:19, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: BUT!!! I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. Is there something I am missing with this G4 - G4 swap? Thanks. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video No mention of the bus multipliers for the 100mhz bus - presumably the 450 cpu will have 4.5x and the 500 cpu will have 5x - or is that included with the system clock fiddling? Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
pdimage wrote: On 20/7/10 08:19, Gusgusr...@comcast.net wrote: BUT!!! I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. Is there something I am missing with this G4 - G4 swap? Thanks. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video No mention of the bus multipliers for the 100mhz bus - presumably the 450 cpu will have 4.5x and the 500 cpu will have 5x - or is that included with the system clock fiddling? Pete CUDA button? Usually needed after most new H/W, but certainly after a CPU swap... Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
At 12:19 AM -0700 7/20/2010, Gus wrote: G4 Yikes with 400mhz Processor clocked to 450 / 750 mb memory. a PC keyboard hooked to the USB port. PC mouse hooked to the USB port. I got this processor from ebay. Says it is a 500 mhz G4. DId a one for one swap with the G4 on my Yikes board. (left jumpers at 450). Chime, But no video. Cant zap pram (think it is because of the PC Keyboard) But should I need to? With the new CPU installed... Unplug the system. Pull the PRAM battery. Wait a minute. Reinstall the battery. Wait about 30 secs then press the CUDA button ONCE. That will both reset the PRAM and properly reboot the power manager. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video. Any time you make a change to the system, such as replacing the CPU or changing the clock speed, you need to reset the power manager (press and release the CUDA button ONCE). WRT the chime... That's the self-test telling you that the CPU, buses, and memory responded correctly. It has nothing to do with how the peripherals respond to the changed clock speeds. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On Jul 20, 4:11 am, pdimage pdim...@btinternet.com wrote: On 20/7/10 08:19, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: BUT!!! I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. Is there something I am missing with this G4 - G4 swap? Thanks. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video No mention of the bus multipliers for the 100mhz bus - presumably the 450 cpu will have 4.5x and the 500 cpu will have 5x - or is that included with the system clock fiddling? Pete Right. I am using a chart I got from OWC that tells what the jumper settings should be for the different clock speeds. The bus speed and pci speed stays the same while you change the cpu multiples from x4, x4.5, x5.0 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On Jul 20, 9:02 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 12:19 AM -0700 7/20/2010, Gus wrote: G4 Yikes with 400mhz Processor clocked to 450 / 750 mb memory. a PC keyboard hooked to the USB port. PC mouse hooked to the USB port. I got this processor from ebay. Says it is a 500 mhz G4. DId a one for one swap with the G4 on my Yikes board. (left jumpers at 450). Chime, But no video. Cant zap pram (think it is because of the PC Keyboard) But should I need to? With the new CPU installed... Unplug the system. Pull the PRAM battery. Wait a minute. Reinstall the battery. Wait about 30 secs then press the CUDA button ONCE. That will both reset the PRAM and properly reboot the power manager. For grins, I did drop the system clock from 400.. then up to 500 No change with the 500 mhz g4, Still chimes, no video. Any time you make a change to the system, such as replacing the CPU or changing the clock speed, you need to reset the power manager (press and release the CUDA button ONCE). WRT the chime... That's the self-test telling you that the CPU, buses, and memory responded correctly. It has nothing to do with how the peripherals respond to the changed clock speeds. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. Okay. Powered down. Pulled the known good cpu. (didn't change any clock settings). Put the known good cpu in. (secured heatsink ect) Removed the battery. Pressed cuda button (once) (for about three seconds). (the cuda button is still in the same place as the bw Yosemite board, closest to the battery. Gave it a power up. Still the same. Post chime the disk activity leds light for a few seconds, then go out first one, then the other. repeated steps above with the inclusion of a remove power cord and let it set for 10 mins. same results put the known good 450 in. booted machine, came here and wrote these findings. Anything else I should try before I tell this guy his cpu doesn't work. I want to be sure of this. (much appreciate your time in this) Gus -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On Jul 20, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Gus wrote: Anything else I should try before I tell this guy his cpu doesn't work. I want to be sure of this. Disconnect the power cord AND remove the PRAM battery, THEN press the CUDA. If you haven't changed the jumpers, it's likely that could be the problem? You need to move the jumper from the 4th position to the 3rd position: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/g4yikesoc/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
okay.. unpluged everything. removed everything from the usb bus but the keyboard and mouse. changed the chip. changed the jumper. removed the battery. Let it sit for 30 mins. pressed the cuda button for five seconds. put the battery back in. Chime. No Video. Turned it off. Pulled the 500 mhz chip and put the 400 mhz chip back in with jumper settings for a 450mhz. booted up fine. On Jul 20, 1:23 pm, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jul 20, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Gus wrote: Anything else I should try before I tell this guy his cpu doesn't work. I want to be sure of this. Disconnect the power cord AND remove the PRAM battery, THEN press the CUDA. If you haven't changed the jumpers, it's likely that could be the problem? You need to move the jumper from the 4th position to the 3rd position: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/g4yikesoc/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On 20/7/10 21:27, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: okay.. unpluged everything. removed everything from the usb bus but the keyboard and mouse. changed the chip. changed the jumper. removed the battery. Let it sit for 30 mins. pressed the cuda button for five seconds. put the battery back in. Chime. No Video. Turned it off. Pulled the 500 mhz chip and put the 400 mhz chip back in with jumper settings for a 450mhz. booted up fine. Have you tried booting it from an install disk? Is there just no video or do the hd's fail to spin up too? Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
I only get the chime, It doesn't size the system or get into OF. No boot process at all starts. Thanks for your reply. Gus. On Jul 20, 4:20 pm, pdimage pdim...@btinternet.com wrote: On 20/7/10 21:27, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: okay.. unpluged everything. removed everything from the usb bus but the keyboard and mouse. changed the chip. changed the jumper. removed the battery. Let it sit for 30 mins. pressed the cuda button for five seconds. put the battery back in. Chime. No Video. Turned it off. Pulled the 500 mhz chip and put the 400 mhz chip back in with jumper settings for a 450mhz. booted up fine. Have you tried booting it from an install disk? Is there just no video or do the hd's fail to spin up too? Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
On Jul 20, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Gus wrote: Chime. No Video. After the chime is there any sign that the HD is working like it's booting normally? Can you use keyboard commands to initiate Shutdown or Restart? (Control-Eject and then Return for shutdown; OR Command-Control-Eject for immediate restart; OR Command-Option-Control-Eject for immediate shutdown). If any of these keyboard commands for shutdown or restart work, you're booting normally and have no video. I don't think this is likely, but I also don't think a bad CPU will chime normally, so you've got a enigma. This page http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=zif/bwjumpers.html has more complete jumper settings, and says: Some indications of too high a clock speed are instability, crashing, video artifacts, NO VIDEO, no start chime. I'm thinking perhaps the jumpers are wrong still? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
