Re: [Audyssey] Lworks discontinuing sales of legacy games
The actual details of making Alter Aeon accessible were much easier than for most projects, because the game server itself is purely text based and already had low spam modes. Most of the accessibility changes were additional filtering, special commands to display single pieces of information instead of an entire screen, and a dedicated blind mode that changed how certain things were displayed. None of these took a huge amount of time alone, but there were a lot of them. As for why I originally did it, I thought it was amazing that the blind were playing the game, and I was bored, and I liked the person who asked. I keep doing it now because most of our players are blind and we have a solid community built up on the server. I consider the blind/VI crowd to be my largest target audience. As I mentioned above, keep in mind that Alter Aeon had a lot going for it right from the start: the server was purely text based, we had spam filters for other reasons, and our blind community started Mush-Z on their own. Most mainstream games will have zero of these things, and it'll be a LOT more work (if not impossible) to convince developers to support the blind. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Steven Cantos wrote: > Dear Mr. developer of the Alteraeon Mud, > > You managed to actually make your game accessible. What did it take and why > did you decide to do it? In writing this question, I am assuming that you > are sighted and are merely sympathetic to the blind. > > Signed, > > Steven --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Lworks discontinuing sales of legacy games
Dear Mr. developer of the Alteraeon Mud, You managed to actually make your game accessible. What did it take and why did you decide to do it? In writing this question, I am assuming that you are sighted and are merely sympathetic to the blind. Signed, Steven --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
Dennis, You make some very good points. However, isn't some of this offset by my responses to your initial list of four things? In particular: 3) You have to spend the time rearchitecting your software (most developers won't.) We can add in the research time on accessibility, etc., as well as work to redesign the code. here that it would take a developer. My response alleviates the developer's time problem, though: Maybe those of us who are blind and have some software development know-how could offer to help in that endeavor. After all, who better to work with the accessibility side of things than the very group needing it, the very ones who use assistive technology on a daily basis? (Let me take it a step further. It just makes sense that the very ones using the accessibility should be involved in implementing it, especially since it helps with your next original issue): 4) You have to get blind friends and software to test (most developers won't.) Again, if we're helping out with the re-architecture stated above, then obviously we'd also be helping with testing, etc., wouldn't we? Not only do they get help with design, implementation, etc., but they would also have testers already. It's a win-win in that case. Bottom line is, I think some of this might improve if more blind people spoke up, if more of us got involved. Our voices aren't heard because we don't speak up, and we should. Prime example, the library in Greensboro. There are at least 20 blind people that I know of who live in Greensboro, probably more. Yet not a one spoke up about the library's lack of accessibility to us. But isn't it funny that with some persistence on my part, that library is fully accessible to the blind, partially sighted, and deaf. We cannot expect to be heard if we don't use our voices, can we? Jody --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
Jody, I'd like to address just one point in particular: On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Jody McKinniss wrote: > 2) You have to think that it's worth doing (most developers don't.) > Hmm. This is puzzling to me, since as a developer I would want to reach as > many people as possible. It's important to remember that developers want to reach as many people as possible, given the limited resources they have to reach those people. The key here is 'limited resources'. Adding proper accessibility to a system usually takes up a pretty big percentage of your development resources on a project. The blind community is small, and if you're going to focus on it, you have to be really sure it'll pay off. Otherwise, the time a developer spends supporting the blind could have brought in ten or a hundred times as many sighted people. In other words, it's a risky business decision as a developer to add accessibility. Sure, being accessible gets you more users, but it usually gets you less users than improving the non-accessible parts of the system. Big companies and products, like microsoft windows, support accessibility for a bunch of different reasons: 1) They've already got nearly all the sighted people, so adding sighted features isn't going to bring in more users. Adding accessibility might though. 2) They can allocate just a few developers, far less than one percent, to work on the hardest problems and get a minimum amount of support and still have it be useful. 3) There are special contracts you can get that are worth obscene amounts of money if you can sell accessibility in the right places at the right time. 4) They might get sued if they don't offer at least some support. Keep in mind, most of these reasons really only apply to big companies and big projects. For small developers, it's almost never worth the effort. As a small developer: 1) Your biggest audience by far is going to be the sighted crowd, unless you specifically pick a VI project from the start. 2) You've only got yourself, and if you only allocate an hour a week to accessibility, you're just not going to get anything useful done. As an example, it's been years of occasional research, and I -still- don't know how to make the main window in the Alter Aeon custom client reader capable. 3) You're too small to get those lucrative contracts and special deals that might make a profit. 4) Nobody's going to sue you to force you to add accessibility, both because small developers don't really have enough money to make it worthwhile, and because accessibility laws only apply to big companies. There's always exceptions, such as Alter Aeon. We initially added accessibility because I made friends with several people, and they asked for simple things that were easy to implement. I gradually put more and more work into accessibility over the years because there were more and more blind people playing, and I decided to go all out with it when I realized that I'd rather work with the blind than most of the mainstream sighted gaming crowd. However, that's the exception, rather than the rule. In summary: most developers don't support accessibility because it's not the best use of their time. This is almost entirely because the market is small. There's nobody to blame for this, nobody to sue, and no way to legislate the problem out of existence; it's just the way things are. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
Dennis, As to: 1) You have to know that accessibility is a problem in order to search for it (most developers don't.) I blame those of us who cannot see for this. We don't advocate enough, don't call/write/email/contact developers enough. We don't push the accessibility issues. We don't make our voices heard enough, and so we get lost. I do not understand our unwillingness to do this. I remember back when I lived in Greensboro, the public library did not have any accessible computers. I pushed them to get Jaws. Several blind people living in Greensboro at the time, and not a one spoke up. It took 6 months of me staying on their backs, but now not only do they have Jaws, they also have technology to help the partially sighted, as well as technology to help the deaf. So maybe we as a group of individuals should start pushing the issue with these developers. Plus, I would certainly hope that in the year 2014 we have become an educated enough society to realize that blind people use computers now. Surely developers don't just assume that we spend our lives under a rock, do they? Surely they don't just assume that we never go near a computer in our life, wow. 2) You have to think that it's worth doing (most developers don't.) Hmm. This is puzzling to me, since as a developer I would want to reach as many people as possible. 3) You have to spend the time rearchitecting your software (most developers won't.) Maybe those of us who are blind and have some software development know-how could offer to help in that endeavor. After all, who better to work with the accessibility side of things than the very group needing it? 4) You have to get blind friends and software to test (most developers won't.) Again, if we're helping out with the re-architecture stated above, then obviously we'd also be helping with testing, etc., wouldn't we? -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Towne Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 12:20 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games It's a lot more complicated than that, Jody. 1) You have to know that accessibility is a problem in order to search for it (most developers don't.) 2) You have to think that it's worth doing (most developers don't.) 3) You have to spend the time rearchitecting your software (most developers won't.) 4) You have to get blind friends and software to test (most developers won't.) All four of these are real problems, and each takes real time to overcome. It's a much higher hurdle than 'they should just search on google'. Searching on google is arguably the least time consuming part of the process. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jody McKinniss wrote: > Tom, > > Interesting that ignorance is the reasoning, since it did not take me > long at all to pull up information on accessibility with flash just by > typing a few words into Google. > > Jody --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
It's a lot more complicated than that, Jody. 1) You have to know that accessibility is a problem in order to search for it (most developers don't.) 2) You have to think that it's worth doing (most developers don't.) 3) You have to spend the time rearchitecting your software (most developers won't.) 4) You have to get blind friends and software to test (most developers won't.) All four of these are real problems, and each takes real time to overcome. It's a much higher hurdle than 'they should just search on google'. Searching on google is arguably the least time consuming part of the process. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jody McKinniss wrote: > Tom, > > Interesting that ignorance is the reasoning, since it did not take me long > at all to pull up information on accessibility with flash just by typing a > few words into Google. > > Jody --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
Tom, Interesting that ignorance is the reasoning, since it did not take me long at all to pull up information on accessibility with flash just by typing a few words into Google. Jody -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 5:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games I agree, its graphics this and that. you do have to read up on it for access to work. Fortunately once you read the guidelines you usually don't need that much. 'At 08:22 p.m. 9/09/2014, you wrote: >Hi Jody, > >Honestly, the answer to both of your questions is simple ignorance on >the part of the developer. One thing you may not realize is that when a >student enrolls in a college class on programming or goes to a tech >school that there isn't any time spent on accessibility. College >courses and tech schools have a lot of information to pack into 12 week >courses so often times the basics of programming and software design >are covered, but a lot of things like accessibility are never mentioned >in class. It is up to the perspective developer to research on his or >her own time. > >Since accessibility isn't given much consideration at the education >level chances are a developer will enter the work force ignorant of >accessibility issues and develop a web site, a piece of software, >whatever and make many unintentional mistakes regarding accessibility. >It is only when someone with a visual disability like you or I brings >it to their attention they are aware of any accessibility issues. By >that time they may be reluctant to correct those accessibility issues >because it may require both time and energy to fix. If they had known >in advance they might have done things completely differently to start >with, but the situation being what it is most developers don't know >they are making a mistake until they make it and are informed about it. > >Which directly brings me to your question. Its not that developers are >scared of screen readers its that they just do not know anything about >them. They are out of their element when we discuss them, and a lot of >times a blind computer user expects this computer programmer to know >all about it when they don't. As I stated above they may have already >invested lots of time and effort developing a site, a piece of >software, an application not intentionally creating accessibility >issues, but by the time they are informed about those access issues it >may require a lot more time and effort to fix than they are personally >willing to invest in making it accessible. > >As far as Flash there are a lot of advantages to using Flash which >makes sense why web developers use it. Unfortunately, this is sort of >related to your first question. It looks cool, offers a lot of >functionality for the developer, but ignorance about accessibility >issues means it will be used incorrectly or in a way that isn't screen >reader friendly. Not intentionally, but until more mainstream >programmers are aware of the accessibility issues with Flash and other >technologies we are going to get more of the same. > > > >On 9/9/14, Jody McKinniss wrote: > > I have a question related to what you wrote, Tom. My complaint > > isn't with changes in software in the sense of ribbons, that sort of > > thing. My complaint is that so many mainstream developers refuse to > > even attempt to make their applications or websites really > > accessible. I don't understand why they are so scared off by a > > screen reader. Is it really that hard to label buttons, or add alt > > text to HTML so that Jaws can at least have some idea as to what is > > going on? Question 2: Why is it that so many developers are in > > love with flash content? Almost every website I visit now has some > > sort of flash player on it. And almost every single time, > > accessibility is abysmal. What I usually get is something like, "unlabeled 0 button. > > Unlabeled 3 button." Or, even worse, I get text of some sort of ad, > > but there are also buttons mixed in. The most accessible site I > > have seen to date with respect to flash content is Youtube. Their > > player is labeled fairly well. It's not perfect, but to their > > credit at least they tried, and I can access the major functions if > > need be. I can mute, pause, and play. > > I can even see the bar that controls the playback of the video if I > > turn off virtual PC. So I guess my question is twofold: First, why > > are developers so in love with flash, and second, if they are going > > to use it, why don't they at least attempt to make it more > > accessible to those of us who use screen readers? > > > > Jody > > > > > > --- > > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the > > list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
I bet you could still buy it on ebay or find it somewhere. signature not available. shaun everiss wrote: hmmm to be honest daniel, you should stay with 8 if you have it. Good news is if you buy a coppy of windows 7 right now you can still legally get it but you need to do it this year. If your laptop has windows 7 drivers on its website then you should be sweet as far as win7 goes. however after this year though windows7 updates will still come for the next 5 years you won't be able to legally buy it because its not going to be supported. At 04:39 p.m. 9/09/2014, you wrote: So for all of you comp savvy people on hear, is it possible to install windows 7 on a windows 8 machine? And now computers come with preinstalled software, where might I get copy of Windows 7? Danielle On 9/8/14, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Charles, > > Well, to begin with there are sometimes a technical reason for a > change, but a lot of times there isn't. Unfortunately, a lot of end > users aren't savvy enough to recognize the difference between the two. > In this case your question is a little of both. > > Regarding issues with sound it has to do with the fact the audio mixer > in Windows was designed in the mid 90's for a completely different era > of audio hardware. Ten years later by the mid 2000's there was a lot > of newer better audio hardware with 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound support > that Windows could not handle because the mixer was out of date. So in > Windows Vista Microsoft upgraded the sound mixer, but in the process a > lot of older software like DirectSound and older versions of Windows > Media Player broke. Rather than upgrade DirectSound Microsoft replaced > it with XAudio2, and of course upgraded software like windows Media > Player with the required new audio support. So as far as sound goes it > has a purely technical explanation and was a mandatory upgrade. Its > just that games, particularly audio games, are still using things like > VB 6 and DirectX 8 which were designed before the audio mixer was > updated and are now broken as a result. > > As for things like the ribbons there isn't a technical reason for why > they have largely replaced menus in modern Windows. I wasn't there > when the decision was made so can't testify as to why they were > adopted, but I can put forth a few ideas on the subject. > > One thing is that software engineers are creative people by nature. We > like to create things, that's why we are programmers, and as a result > we are always looking for new ways to do things. We fly in the face of > the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality because we always want > to change something, improve it, and make it better if we can. So > obviously someone at Microsoft thought the ribbons were a good idea > even if many end users might not agree with that. > > However, its more than simple creativity at work. Companies are in the > business of making money. They have to sell you something to stay in > business even if that something is just a fresh new look and feel with > little advantages or real changes. In the business world its call > "perceived obsolescence." Basically, a corporate way of milking a > product for all it is worth by making changes for change's sake. > > For example, let's say a PC builder like Del releases a new PC in the > spring with an Almond case, a 19 inch display, keyboard, mouse etc. > Now in the fall they have their new PC ready to ship, but they have > lots of parts in their inventory from the spring run. What they will > do is come up with a shiny new black case, maybe a matching 19 inch > display, keyboard, and mouse and release their old model on the market > before their new models in order to get the most out of their spring > run even though it is virtually identical to their last run besides a > fancy new case and color change. Anyone who wasn't technically astute > or savvy enough to compare specs might assume the new run is a brand > new machine when it is basically the same thing as the spring run with > a very minor makeover. > > We see very much the same thing with software. If Microsoft has > troubles selling something like Office, don't have a lot of new > updates in it, they may try and change the user interface, give it a > new look and feel,in order to hopefully sell it as a new product. Even > though the changes are very minor. > > In short, there aren't always technical reasons for a change, and it > is just the developer's way of staying in business. You have to > realize something like the ribbons is do more to attempts to make > money than anything else. Companies of all kinds are always making > changes in the hopes they can continue to sell something old as > something new. It is a bit dishonest in ways, but nobody ever said > business was ethical or completely honest. > > Cheers! > > > On 9/8/14, Charles Rivard wrote: >> I don't know much about the technical reasoning, but I don't know why, >> for >> example, the ribbon sy
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
I should also add that if your hard drive is more than 2tb you will want to keep gpt I think windows 7 does support this now if you have a full sp1 version at least mine does. At 07:31 p.m. 9/09/2014, you wrote: Danielle, It is possible to install Windows 7 on a machine that came with 8 pre-installed. I had this very thing happen to me. I found that because of the changes Microsoft had made to the partition table, it basically locked you out of doing it the normal way, formatting the drive and simply installing your version of Windows. Apparently that had something to do with the new GPT partition table layout. So this is what you do: Download Ubuntu Linux: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop Simply locate the "download" button and proceed normally. Then, burn the downloaded ISO image to a CD/DVD. Restart your computer and boot from the disc. Load Orca screen reader at startup. Once Ubuntu and Orca are running, run the partition editor. Select your partition that currently holds Windows. Choose to make it free space, no formatting. This zeros out the partition. Once completed, you may proceed to install Windows 7 normally. If you need any help with the above, feel free to contact me directly. Jody --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
what was the new coke disaster. Yes I know we are going off topic but I never heard of this. At 01:55 a.m. 10/09/2014, you wrote: Hi Charles, Yes, I do. The New Coke fiasco is infamous, and was probably one of the worst blunders in modern business history. Even so I am not sure that Microsoft is making that kind of mistake. There are certainly users who won't buy Windows 8 because of the changes in user interface, but there are also people who will. It just depends on how open the end user is to new things. :D On 9/9/14, Charles Rivard wrote: > Microsoft could learn something from Coka Cola. Remember "new coke"? > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > > you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
Well it depends tom on what the system is and what it is. Generally at least with what I know, dells, toshibas and asus at any rate use almost the same hardware. Amd display and hd audio amd driver detect should help you there. the processer and a few other things are intel intel driver update can help with this. Your soundcard network, card readers and maybe a usb controler or 2 as well as wireless are all realtech. You should be able to get synaptic mice drivers. Windows update should have things like hdd protection sensors. On the down side, you won't have your bluetooth driver and most toshibas use a rtl 81223 ae n wireless card whicdh since I can not find it on realtech's site means its customised. aparently linovo use the same driver for that one. You would loose out on spaciffic drivers like bluetooth, extra moniters and your webcam. Toshiba has this. While you will clear a lot of bloat by just using drivers, I found out by trial and error that there are a lot of things you miss. ie toshiba's various access to hardware settings and pc health checks. and a few extras. Where possible I try to update the generic drivers with more stable ones from the site. However there are things like your smedia usb controler or your customised intel firmware eengine and other stuff that may not be on your generic update site. At 07:48 p.m. 9/09/2014, you wrote: Hi Danielle, If you can find the Windows 7 drivers for your computer its possible to install Windows 7 on it. A lot depends on if you can find hardware drivers for your system. Although, that shouldn't be a problem since its a newer machine and I would think the hardware is still backwards compatible with Windows 7. As far as obtaining Windows 7 there are a number of online venders who sell it. I'd have to check but one that comes to mind is Amazon. Of course, you can order a retail copy from Microsoft as well. Still, I'd recommend just sticking with Windows 8 rather than installing Windows 7 on that machine. Cheers! On 9/9/14, Danielle Antoine wrote: > So for all of you comp savvy people on hear, is it possible to install > windows 7 on a windows 8 machine? And now computers come with > preinstalled software, where might I get copy of Windows 7? > > Danielle > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
I agree, its graphics this and that. you do have to read up on it for access to work. Fortunately once you read the guidelines you usually don't need that much. 'At 08:22 p.m. 9/09/2014, you wrote: Hi Jody, Honestly, the answer to both of your questions is simple ignorance on the part of the developer. One thing you may not realize is that when a student enrolls in a college class on programming or goes to a tech school that there isn't any time spent on accessibility. College courses and tech schools have a lot of information to pack into 12 week courses so often times the basics of programming and software design are covered, but a lot of things like accessibility are never mentioned in class. It is up to the perspective developer to research on his or her own time. Since accessibility isn't given much consideration at the education level chances are a developer will enter the work force ignorant of accessibility issues and develop a web site, a piece of software, whatever and make many unintentional mistakes regarding accessibility. It is only when someone with a visual disability like you or I brings it to their attention they are aware of any accessibility issues. By that time they may be reluctant to correct those accessibility issues because it may require both time and energy to fix. If they had known in advance they might have done things completely differently to start with, but the situation being what it is most developers don't know they are making a mistake until they make it and are informed about it. Which directly brings me to your question. Its not that developers are scared of screen readers its that they just do not know anything about them. They are out of their element when we discuss them, and a lot of times a blind computer user expects this computer programmer to know all about it when they don't. As I stated above they may have already invested lots of time and effort developing a site, a piece of software, an application not intentionally creating accessibility issues, but by the time they are informed about those access issues it may require a lot more time and effort to fix than they are personally willing to invest in making it accessible. As far as Flash there are a lot of advantages to using Flash which makes sense why web developers use it. Unfortunately, this is sort of related to your first question. It looks cool, offers a lot of functionality for the developer, but ignorance about accessibility issues means it will be used incorrectly or in a way that isn't screen reader friendly. Not intentionally, but until more mainstream programmers are aware of the accessibility issues with Flash and other technologies we are going to get more of the same. On 9/9/14, Jody McKinniss wrote: > I have a question related to what you wrote, Tom. My complaint isn't with > changes in software in the sense of ribbons, that sort of thing. My > complaint is that so many mainstream developers refuse to even attempt to > make their applications or websites really accessible. I don't understand > why they are so scared off by a screen reader. Is it really that hard to > label buttons, or add alt text to HTML so that Jaws can at least have some > idea as to what is going on? Question 2: Why is it that so many > developers > are in love with flash content? Almost every website I visit now has some > sort of flash player on it. And almost every single time, accessibility is > abysmal. What I usually get is something like, "unlabeled 0 button. > Unlabeled 3 button." Or, even worse, I get text of some sort of ad, but > there are also buttons mixed in. The most accessible site I have seen to > date with respect to flash content is Youtube. Their player is labeled > fairly well. It's not perfect, but to their credit at least they tried, > and > I can access the major functions if need be. I can mute, pause, and play. > I can even see the bar that controls the playback of the video if I turn > off > virtual PC. So I guess my question is twofold: First, why are developers > so in love with flash, and second, if they are going to use it, why don't > they at least attempt to make it more accessible to those of us who use > screen readers? > > Jody > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_aud
Re: [Audyssey] microsoft changes - Re: Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
hmmm to be honest daniel, you should stay with 8 if you have it. Good news is if you buy a coppy of windows 7 right now you can still legally get it but you need to do it this year. If your laptop has windows 7 drivers on its website then you should be sweet as far as win7 goes. however after this year though windows7 updates will still come for the next 5 years you won't be able to legally buy it because its not going to be supported. At 04:39 p.m. 9/09/2014, you wrote: So for all of you comp savvy people on hear, is it possible to install windows 7 on a windows 8 machine? And now computers come with preinstalled software, where might I get copy of Windows 7? Danielle On 9/8/14, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Charles, > > Well, to begin with there are sometimes a technical reason for a > change, but a lot of times there isn't. Unfortunately, a lot of end > users aren't savvy enough to recognize the difference between the two. > In this case your question is a little of both. > > Regarding issues with sound it has to do with the fact the audio mixer > in Windows was designed in the mid 90's for a completely different era > of audio hardware. Ten years later by the mid 2000's there was a lot > of newer better audio hardware with 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound support > that Windows could not handle because the mixer was out of date. So in > Windows Vista Microsoft upgraded the sound mixer, but in the process a > lot of older software like DirectSound and older versions of Windows > Media Player broke. Rather than upgrade DirectSound Microsoft replaced > it with XAudio2, and of course upgraded software like windows Media > Player with the required new audio support. So as far as sound goes it > has a purely technical explanation and was a mandatory upgrade. Its > just that games, particularly audio games, are still using things like > VB 6 and DirectX 8 which were designed before the audio mixer was > updated and are now broken as a result. > > As for things like the ribbons there isn't a technical reason for why > they have largely replaced menus in modern Windows. I wasn't there > when the decision was made so can't testify as to why they were > adopted, but I can put forth a few ideas on the subject. > > One thing is that software engineers are creative people by nature. We > like to create things, that's why we are programmers, and as a result > we are always looking for new ways to do things. We fly in the face of > the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality because we always want > to change something, improve it, and make it better if we can. So > obviously someone at Microsoft thought the ribbons were a good idea > even if many end users might not agree with that. > > However, its more than simple creativity at work. Companies are in the > business of making money. They have to sell you something to stay in > business even if that something is just a fresh new look and feel with > little advantages or real changes. In the business world its call > "perceived obsolescence." Basically, a corporate way of milking a > product for all it is worth by making changes for change's sake. > > For example, let's say a PC builder like Del releases a new PC in the > spring with an Almond case, a 19 inch display, keyboard, mouse etc. > Now in the fall they have their new PC ready to ship, but they have > lots of parts in their inventory from the spring run. What they will > do is come up with a shiny new black case, maybe a matching 19 inch > display, keyboard, and mouse and release their old model on the market > before their new models in order to get the most out of their spring > run even though it is virtually identical to their last run besides a > fancy new case and color change. Anyone who wasn't technically astute > or savvy enough to compare specs might assume the new run is a brand > new machine when it is basically the same thing as the spring run with > a very minor makeover. > > We see very much the same thing with software. If Microsoft has > troubles selling something like Office, don't have a lot of new > updates in it, they may try and change the user interface, give it a > new look and feel,in order to hopefully sell it as a new product. Even > though the changes are very minor. > > In short, there aren't always technical reasons for a change, and it > is just the developer's way of staying in business. You have to > realize something like the ribbons is do more to attempts to make > money than anything else. Companies of all kinds are always making > changes in the hopes they can continue to sell something old as > something new. It is a bit dishonest in ways, but nobody ever said > business was ethical or completely honest. > > Cheers! > > > On 9/8/14, Charles Rivard wrote: >> I don't know much about the technical reasoning, but I don't know why, >> for >> example, the ribbon system has replaced the pulldown menus, why sounds >> are >> handled in such a way that games no longer work an
Re: [Audyssey] how to be an audio game programmer.
Hi Josh, The BGT toolkit isn't the only option. Let's give Ishan more options than BGT. I have the greatest respect for BGT, but would like to remind people it isn't the one and only choice out there. Cheers! On 9/10/14, Josh wrote: > get the free bgt blind game maker toolkit. its free from blastbay studios. > > signature not available. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] regarding MTG studios.
Hello all I have questions regarding MTG studios. 1 why they close there company and what they are doing with their products? 2 how can a person can reach to them? Thanks Ishan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Fwd: Transcript for a game board started on Tue Sep 9 21:21:58 2014 EDT
hmmm, yes thats strange. oh well to sum it up I won the game. I played the I doubt it game on rs-games. signature not available. Charles Rivard wrote: Your message was blank. The tag line was at the top. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Josh" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Fwd: Transcript for a game board started on Tue Sep 9 21:21:58 2014 EDT -- signature not available. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] how to be an audio game programmer.
Hi Ishan, Well, at the time being there isn't any specific site available that will teach a newbie such as yourself how to program an audio game. Although, there are plenty of general purpose programming sites available for C++, Python, and various other languages if you want to begin with one of those languages. About the closest you can come to that directly deals with audio game programming specifically is BGT which was designed for that purpose. That said, you need to make some decisions before choosing a language and tools to use. Are you primarily going to be programming for Windows, Mac, Linux, or all of the above? What types of games do you see yourself programming such as arcade, side-scrollers, first-person shooters, etc? Are your games going to be commercial ore freeware? There is a purpose to all of these questions, and the languages and tools I might recommend would depend on how you answer the above. If your games were designed for a single platform like Windows it offers a lot more choices than it would if you were trying to get into cross-platform development. While it is theoretically possible to program any kind of game in any language some languages and APIs are better suited for certain genres of games. If you are thinking commercial then some languages offer better security than others. Just some things to consider before diving into game programming. HTH On 9/8/14, ishan dhami wrote: > Hi all I have lots of dreams and concept and I want to fulfil them. > I want to learn audio game programming > But where? > which site should I choose > and is this is possible? > Thanks > Ishan > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] how to be an audio game programmer.
get the free bgt blind game maker toolkit. its free from blastbay studios. signature not available. ishan dhami wrote: Hi all I have lots of dreams and concept and I want to fulfil them. I want to learn audio game programming But where? which site should I choose and is this is possible? Thanks Ishan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] how to be an audio game programmer.
Hi all I have lots of dreams and concept and I want to fulfil them. I want to learn audio game programming But where? which site should I choose and is this is possible? Thanks Ishan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audyssey babble report for August 2014
a very good report. Thanks Ishan On 9/9/14, Christina wrote: > Cool. > Thanks. > > > -Original Message- > From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kitchen > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 4:22 AM > To: Audyssey > Subject: [Audyssey] Audyssey babble report for August 2014 > > > 61 people posted 446 messages. > > 86 From, Thomas Ward. > 59 From, Charles Rivard. > 53 From, dark. > 35 From, shaun everiss. > 30 From, john. > 21 From, Jim Kitchen. > 15 From, Josh. > 14 From, Bryan Peterson. > 13 From, ishan dhami. > 9 From, Teresa Cochran. > 9 From, tim. > 7 From, Nicol. > 7 From, william lomas. > 6 From, loriduncan. > 5 From, goshawk on horseback. > 4 From, Christina. > 4 From, Danielle Antoine. > 4 From, Dennis Towne. > 4 From, hayden presley. > 4 From, lucky. > 3 From, Aaron Baker. > 3 From, Jeremy Kaldobsky. > 3 From, Joshua Tubbs. > 3 From, Shannon Dyer. > 2 From, Austin Pinto. > 2 From, Christopher Hallsworth. > 2 From, Eleanor. > 2 From, Ian McNamara. > 2 From, Nick Adamson. > 2 From, Stephen. > 2 From, valiant8086. > 2 From, Zachary Kline. > 1 From, Arianna Sepulveda. > 1 From, Christopher Hallsworth. > 1 From, Darren Harris. > 1 From, David Bartling. > 1 From, David Chung. > 1 From, Desiree Oudinot. > 1 From, Devin Prater. > 1 From, enes. > 1 From, Gamers List Guidelines Robot. > 1 From, Gary Whittington. > 1 From, Gmail. > 1 From, Hayden Presley. > 1 From, Henning Oschwald. > 1 From, Jacob Kruger. > 1 From, Johnny Tai. > 1 From, Karl Belanger. > 1 From, Kelly Sapergia. > 1 From, lori duncan. > 1 From, Lucky. > 1 From, mattias. > 1 From, Milos Przic. > 1 From, Paul Lemm. > 1 From, Rick. > 1 From, Ron Kolesar. > 1 From, Ron Schamerhorn. > 1 From, Sarah Haake. > 1 From, Scott Chesworth. > 1 From, sylvester thomas III. > 1 From, william lomas. > > Archive file size 1144956 bytes > > Jim > > Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play. > > j...@kitchensinc.net > http://www.kitchensinc.net > (440) 286-6920 > Chardon Ohio USA > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Fwd: LWorks discontinuing sales of Legacy games
ya I understand liam's problem so I suggest him to choose someone and give some responsibility of LWorks. like programming and coding if he is not able to programme or if he is busy in his job then this will be the better idea. the example of PCSGames inspire us. Liam should sign the agreement that someone will handle his company and give some of the percentage of amount after profit. in this way he will earn by his company and his customer will not disappoint from him. like when he is free record a cut seen of the particular game with the person who he hire thanks Ishan On 9/8/14, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Ishan, > > Super Liam didn't die at the end of Super Liam. Liam has repeatedly > stated on a number of occasions Liam doesn't actually die. The scene > was created that way to leave gamers hanging for Super Liam II which > never was created. > > The only analogies I can compare it to off the top of my head is the > scene at the end of Tomb Raider: Last Revelation. At the end of Last > Revelation there is a scene where Lara Croft is attempting to exit > Seth's temple when the floor collapses and Lara supposedly falls to > her death while Dr. Von Croy watches on from the doorway. Many gamers > assumed Lara Croft died in the fall, but it was later revealed in > Angel of Darkness that Lara managed to survive the fall, and didn't > really die. It is known as a cliff hanger. > > The point here is there is no need for Liam to change the scene in > Super Liam. Assuming he ever wants to create the second one in the > series he can. It is enough to know that Super Liam didn't die in the > first game, and that should there be a second one we will get to know > more about what happened at the end of the first one. > > > On 9/7/14, ishan dhami wrote: >> Hi I don't know the technicle terms and programming >> but how can you be a heart breaker? >> Liam don't know what is a feeling of love >> this is a very bad excuse >> can he change the cut seen of super liam's ending? >> phil david and other never complained of the shortage they are working >> and they will dominate. >> Oh!alass!at last super liam died >> don't know why and never will know. >> Thanks >> Ishan >> > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
