Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi, I'm coming in a bit late on this thread. Here's what I can add. It got changed for the simple reason that they suck and are not as accessible for newbies to subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. Now, if everyone were to donate just 1 dollar to the list, the cost for it could be paid for and it would cover more than one year of access. Just one dollar from each of you can do this and then maybe things can be changed, assuming it's what Tom and Damion decide. Hope that helps. -- Raul A. Gallegos Did you ever walk in a room and forget why you walked in? I think that's how dogs spend their lives. - Sue Murphy. Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rau47 On 8/18/2012 1:47 PM, Allan Thompson wrote: Hi, Does it cost to use yahoo or google groups? I seem to recall the list got changed from one of these but I don't recall the reason why. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Darren, Well, there are a few good reasons for not increasing the message size to 20 KB. First, is financial. Whoever maintains the Audyssey domain, server, and list will have to pay for extra bandwidth being used by the list. The larger the messages the more bandwidth it will take for Mailman to post several copies of the same message. That cost will directly effect the guy who is paying for the Audyssey domain, bandwidth, etc. That happens to be Raul, but there has been discussion of turning the list over to me so I can just put it on the same service plan as my USA Games account. Therefore the cost would be my responsibility. Second, is that the larger the size of the messages the more time it will take Mailman to post that message to everyone on the list. I realise an extra 10 KB doesn't sound like much on the surface, but is actually quite a lot if you sit down and do the math. For example, let us say that 50 messages are posted to the list on a daily basis. At 10 KB that will equal something like 0.5 MB coming into Mailman. Now, Mailman has to copy and repost all 50 messages to 300 list members which adds up to something like 150 MB in messages going out. Now, let's add an additional 10 KB of length to all 50 messages and watch our output go from 150 MB per day to 300 MB per day. That's something like 9 to 10 GB a month in messages alone. That's a dramatic increase that Mailman has to handle when we can cut that in half by limiting the message length to 10 KB. Finally,increasing the size doesn't resolve the initial problem being discussed here. Allen wanted to know if a message was rejected can he get his original message back. The answer is no, because the software doesn't support that option. Therefore if a message is 21 KB in size and the maximum length is 20 KB someone is still likely to complain about the fact they lost their original message simply because he or she didn't trim the message in the first place. So increasing the length from 10 KB to 20 KB would not resolve the issue being discussed and would add additional problems for the list moderators and maintainers in the process. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Al, No it doesn't cost money to use Google Groups or Yahoo Groups but there were a number of reasons why we decided to purchase our domain, pay for a mail server, and manually run the list ourselves. For one thing when we made the switch Yahoo was beginning to introduce ccapchas that were not accessible and made it difficult for people to join Audyssey or login to their Yahoo accounts etc. For another Yahoo Groups has become rather notorious for spam, and we didn't want to deal with that sort of thing. Finally, with our own domain we were hoping to create a website similar to audiogames.net where we would host all issues of the magazine, contain a database of links for current game developers, and perhaps a news section containing latest releases etc. Do to time constraints the website hasn't appeared, but it is still on the todo list and we want the website and list to all be under the Audyssey domain when we find time to create it. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, Does it cost to use yahoo or google groups? I seem to recall the list got changed from one of these but I don't recall the reason why. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Al, Ah, no that wouldn't be possible. Outlook, Thunderbird, Udora, etc use message rules to sort incoming messages by subject, e-mail address, etc according to the criteria yougive it in the message rules. For example, all our messages have the [Audyssey] tag line in the subject so you could create a message rule to move every incoming message with the [Audyssey] tag line into an Audyssey folder inside your inbox. However, you can't apply message rules to an outgoing message as far as I know. If you are concerned about message length one way to resolve this problem is write your message in something like Windows Notepad and save it. If the file is less than 10 KB then you know it is fine. If you get a text file that is larger than 10 KB then you need to try and trim it down. Of course, we realize there are certain cases such as the Audyssey Magazine, a news letter, a game walkthrough, where this isn't possible to make the message any smaller and Damien and I are usually able to sort out the legit long message from one where the author simply hit the reply button, typed a response, and hit send without editing or trimming the contents. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, Thank you for answering that. I guess the sent folder copies is the way to go. I know someone mentioned making rules for your email program. Is it possible to make a rule that limits a message to a certain size when it is being sent to this list? Just thought I would ask. I am totally clueless about whatever that is. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Damien, While that wasn't the specific reason why Raul and I left Yahoo Groups that is a pretty common problem with free listservices. Places like Free Lists, Google Groups, and so on are not able to handle a membership of 300 or more members. When traffic is high messages get delayed when delivering or never are delivered at all. Which, I think, everyone would agree is a bad thing. :D Cheers! On 8/18/12, Damien C. Pendleton dam...@dcpendleton.co.uk wrote: Hi Allan, As far as I am aware this is because there are over 300 members on the list, and when the list is in one of its heavier moments such free list providers can't process the high-traffic data easily enough to accommodate it, which means some people don't get the messages. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Tom what is the point of audyssey.org as a site when audiogames.net has been serving the community for most of the indi companies, hacker groups comercial and free devs and so on out there. Not to mention the database, student developers, etc. Unless it all went there is now no need for the audyssey to be like that. At 02:56 a.m. 19/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Al, No it doesn't cost money to use Google Groups or Yahoo Groups but there were a number of reasons why we decided to purchase our domain, pay for a mail server, and manually run the list ourselves. For one thing when we made the switch Yahoo was beginning to introduce ccapchas that were not accessible and made it difficult for people to join Audyssey or login to their Yahoo accounts etc. For another Yahoo Groups has become rather notorious for spam, and we didn't want to deal with that sort of thing. Finally, with our own domain we were hoping to create a website similar to audiogames.net where we would host all issues of the magazine, contain a database of links for current game developers, and perhaps a news section containing latest releases etc. Do to time constraints the website hasn't appeared, but it is still on the todo list and we want the website and list to all be under the Audyssey domain when we find time to create it. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, Does it cost to use yahoo or google groups? I seem to recall the list got changed from one of these but I don't recall the reason why. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Because there's nothing wrong with multiple sites doing the same thing? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 2:42 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Tom what is the point of audyssey.org as a site when audiogames.net has been serving the community for most of the indi companies, hacker groups comercial and free devs and so on out there. Not to mention the database, student developers, etc. Unless it all went there is now no need for the audyssey to be like that. At 02:56 a.m. 19/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Al, No it doesn't cost money to use Google Groups or Yahoo Groups but there were a number of reasons why we decided to purchase our domain, pay for a mail server, and manually run the list ourselves. For one thing when we made the switch Yahoo was beginning to introduce ccapchas that were not accessible and made it difficult for people to join Audyssey or login to their Yahoo accounts etc. For another Yahoo Groups has become rather notorious for spam, and we didn't want to deal with that sort of thing. Finally, with our own domain we were hoping to create a website similar to audiogames.net where we would host all issues of the magazine, contain a database of links for current game developers, and perhaps a news section containing latest releases etc. Do to time constraints the website hasn't appeared, but it is still on the todo list and we want the website and list to all be under the Audyssey domain when we find time to create it. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, Does it cost to use yahoo or google groups? I seem to recall the list got changed from one of these but I don't recall the reason why. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
You'd have to delete the previous message content, at least the ones before the message you're replying to. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Lori Duncan Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 1:36 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi, sorry, but could someone explain that one for me? I don't understand what corrections you'd have to make to a message which is too long? Thanks from Lori. -- From: Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:59 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net Subject: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: gamers discussion list Gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 1:57 PM I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Shaun, Perhaps, but by that same logic there would be no need for this list since there is arguably the Audiogames.net forum that can handle game discussions just as well as this list. At any rate the Audyssey website would be another resource people could use to find back issues of the Audyssey Magazine, links to new and upcoming games, perhaps an RSS news feed, and whatever else we decided to add to the website. The exact nature of the website has never been decided but I don't think that having another primary resource is a bad thing. For example, I recall a few months ago when Audiogames.net went down somebody came on list wanting to download this or that game. Since he couldn't access the Audiogames.net database he didn't know where to go to download said games. Having similar content mirrored on Audyssey would be an alternative resource for that kind of information in the event Audiogames.net goes down for some reason. Cheers! On 8/19/12, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Tom what is the point of audyssey.org as a site when audiogames.net has been serving the community for most of the indi companies, hacker groups comercial and free devs and so on out there. Not to mention the database, student developers, etc. Unless it all went there is now no need for the audyssey to be like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Thanks Tom and Damien for that info. I thank you for the notepad idea, too. That will come in useful. I also think an audissey website would be great. thanks again, al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 3:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Al, Ah, no that wouldn't be possible. Outlook, Thunderbird, Udora, etc use message rules to sort incoming messages by subject, e-mail address, etc according to the criteria yougive it in the message rules. For example, all our messages have the [Audyssey] tag line in the subject so you could create a message rule to move every incoming message with the [Audyssey] tag line into an Audyssey folder inside your inbox. However, you can't apply message rules to an outgoing message as far as I know. If you are concerned about message length one way to resolve this problem is write your message in something like Windows Notepad and save it. If the file is less than 10 KB then you know it is fine. If you get a text file that is larger than 10 KB then you need to try and trim it down. Of course, we realize there are certain cases such as the Audyssey Magazine, a news letter, a game walkthrough, where this isn't possible to make the message any smaller and Damien and I are usually able to sort out the legit long message from one where the author simply hit the reply button, typed a response, and hit send without editing or trimming the contents. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, Thank you for answering that. I guess the sent folder copies is the way to go. I know someone mentioned making rules for your email program. Is it possible to make a rule that limits a message to a certain size when it is being sent to this list? Just thought I would ask. I am totally clueless about whatever that is. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Yeah you have your point. And if the audiogames database ever went down. Would be good if if not the forums at least the database could be mirrored, actualy doesn't sound that stupid really. At 11:23 a.m. 19/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Perhaps, but by that same logic there would be no need for this list since there is arguably the Audiogames.net forum that can handle game discussions just as well as this list. At any rate the Audyssey website would be another resource people could use to find back issues of the Audyssey Magazine, links to new and upcoming games, perhaps an RSS news feed, and whatever else we decided to add to the website. The exact nature of the website has never been decided but I don't think that having another primary resource is a bad thing. For example, I recall a few months ago when Audiogames.net went down somebody came on list wanting to download this or that game. Since he couldn't access the Audiogames.net database he didn't know where to go to download said games. Having similar content mirrored on Audyssey would be an alternative resource for that kind of information in the event Audiogames.net goes down for some reason. Cheers! On 8/19/12, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Tom what is the point of audyssey.org as a site when audiogames.net has been serving the community for most of the indi companies, hacker groups comercial and free devs and so on out there. Not to mention the database, student developers, etc. Unless it all went there is now no need for the audyssey to be like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
I'm using Yahoo classic mail, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually supposed to save replies but is simply bugged. Just before writing this, I decided to see if Yahoo was aware of the problem. If the mail system doesn't have the option of returning the original message along with the message too long email then I think things should just stay how they already are. If the maximum email length was increased then I agree we would just end up with every post containing the past 50 posts tacked on to the end. I was jumping in to give my support to any way that would return the original messages, but if it isn't offered by the program then pretty much the entire discussion can be ignored. Losing the original message is annoying, but that's just how the system works. --- On Sat, 8/18/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Saturday, August 18, 2012, 1:17 AM Hi Jeremey, That maybe so, but I don't see a solution to this problem. What's your suggestion to resolve this problem? Itseems to me anything we might suggest wouldn'tsatisfy everyone. There would be just as many issues and hassles with the solution =as the current problem. A: We could remove the message limits. The problem is the people who don't have to trim won't. Therefore sooner than later instead of small messages that are 10 KB in size will grow to 100 KB with no end in sight. I've been on lists like that where I could read the contents of an entire thread in one single message, and that's just rediculous. It takes longer to open that message in a e-mail client, takes longer to download, and for people in foreign countries that have to pay for the amount of bandwidth etc they use is more expensive. B: We could double the message length to 20 KB. Unfortunately, we are back to where we started. If someone responds to a message without trimming or whatever and it ends up being rejected because it is 21 KB in size people will complain that it was either unfairly rejected or want a copy of their message back so they can edit it. that's not possible to do through Mailman as far as I know. C: We can copy the original messages into a new e-mail, mail it back to the original senders, which will double the work of the moderators. If we have 10 messages that day and 8 get rejected the moderator gets stuck with returning 8 messages simply because the original poster didn't follow the list guidelines for one reason or another. That's not especially fair to the moderator who does not have to return messages that are disgarded or rejected. D: We could edit and forward messages.That is we, the moderators, could edit the messages and then forward them on to the list. This is probably the only fair solution for the problem for end users but royally sucks from a moderator point of view because we got stuck with all the work. If we do all the work what will convince the list members to make those kinds of corrections themselves when they have the list moderator there to do it for them? On 8/17/12, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Jeremy, I See. Well, unfortunately as far as I can tell there is no option to just return the message to the sender. It deletes it and sends them a rejection message instead. I think this is because the author's of the Mailman software assume if a moderator chooses to reject it there would be no need for the original sender to revize the message and resend it. Damien and I really have no control over that. As to the entire topic of message lengths Damien and I were just discussing this, and there is a lot of negative drawbacks to letting people having unlimited message size. Not just because most of the messages will have the last 50 messages, but it will eventually slow down how quickly Mailman can recieve and repost messages in the queue. Plus it will use up our months worth of bandwidth much quicker for which the Audyssey maintainer is responsible for paying. Therefore the reasons why we restrict the message length make sense, are reasonable, even if they are not self-evident to the list members. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: I'm using Yahoo classic mail, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually supposed to save replies but is simply bugged. Just before writing this, I decided to see if Yahoo was aware of the problem. If the mail system doesn't have the option of returning the original message along with the message too long email then I think things should just stay how they already are. If the maximum email length was increased then I agree we would just end up with every post containing the past 50 posts tacked on to the end. I was jumping in to give my support to any way that would return the original messages, but if it isn't offered by the program then pretty much the entire discussion can be ignored. Losing the original message is annoying, but that's just how the system works. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi tom, Then why not increase the msg size to 20kb instead of 10? This will help a little perhaps? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 18 August 2012 10:34 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Jeremy, I See. Well, unfortunately as far as I can tell there is no option to just return the message to the sender. It deletes it and sends them a rejection message instead. I think this is because the author's of the Mailman software assume if a moderator chooses to reject it there would be no need for the original sender to revize the message and resend it. Damien and I really have no control over that. As to the entire topic of message lengths Damien and I were just discussing this, and there is a lot of negative drawbacks to letting people having unlimited message size. Not just because most of the messages will have the last 50 messages, but it will eventually slow down how quickly Mailman can recieve and repost messages in the queue. Plus it will use up our months worth of bandwidth much quicker for which the Audyssey maintainer is responsible for paying. Therefore the reasons why we restrict the message length make sense, are reasonable, even if they are not self-evident to the list members. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: I'm using Yahoo classic mail, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually supposed to save replies but is simply bugged. Just before writing this, I decided to see if Yahoo was aware of the problem. If the mail system doesn't have the option of returning the original message along with the message too long email then I think things should just stay how they already are. If the maximum email length was increased then I agree we would just end up with every post containing the past 50 posts tacked on to the end. I was jumping in to give my support to any way that would return the original messages, but if it isn't offered by the program then pretty much the entire discussion can be ignored. Losing the original message is annoying, but that's just how the system works. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Darren, Well, there are a few good reasons for not increasing the message size to 20 KB. First, is financial. Whoever maintains the Audyssey domain, server, and list will have to pay for extra bandwidth being used by the list. The larger the messages the more bandwidth it will take for Mailman to post several copies of the same message. That cost will directly effect the guy who is paying for the Audyssey domain, bandwidth, etc. That happens to be Raul, but there has been discussion of turning the list over to me so I can just put it on the same service plan as my USA Games account. Therefore the cost would be my responsibility. Second, is that the larger the size of the messages the more time it will take Mailman to post that message to everyone on the list. I realise an extra 10 KB doesn't sound like much on the surface, but is actually quite a lot if you sit down and do the math. For example, let us say that 50 messages are posted to the list on a daily basis. At 10 KB that will equal something like 0.5 MB coming into Mailman. Now, Mailman has to copy and repost all 50 messages to 300 list members which adds up to something like 150 MB in messages going out. Now, let's add an additional 10 KB of length to all 50 messages and watch our output go from 150 MB per day to 300 MB per day. That's something like 9 to 10 GB a month in messages alone. That's a dramatic increase that Mailman has to handle when we can cut that in half by limiting the message length to 10 KB. Finally,increasing the size doesn't resolve the initial problem being discussed here. Allen wanted to know if a message was rejected can he get his original message back. The answer is no, because the software doesn't support that option. Therefore if a message is 21 KB in size and the maximum length is 20 KB someone is still likely to complain about the fact they lost their original message simply because he or she didn't trim the message in the first place. So increasing the length from 10 KB to 20 KB would not resolve the issue being discussed and would add additional problems for the list moderators and maintainers in the process. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, Then why not increase the msg size to 20kb instead of 10? This will help a little perhaps? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Thomas, I have a suggestion: how about increasing message size, or better yet, removing it all together. If we were in the dialup days I'd understand why we'd need to trim down emails, but is it really necessary nowadays? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Al and all, I'm Sorry, but that really isn't possible with Mailman. Once a message is rejected, disguarded, etc the message itself is deleted by Mailman and is removed from the message queue. There is no automatic way to have Mailman send the message back to the original sender via Mailman that I'm aware of. The only way this might be accomplished is if the moderator in charge manually copied the message into a new e-mail, e-mailed it to the original sender, etc along with the automatically generated rejection notice. The problem is that we get quite a large number of messages in the moderator inbox for approval and more than half are rejected because they are over the message length, and we'd have to copy and e-mail every single one of those back to the original poster by hand. Would you seriously want to do that yourself? The thing is that if we started doing this we might as well make the changes ourselves and then post it directly to the list as there would be little point to returning the posters message for them to correct and repost if we had to do all the extra work anyway. :D Cheers! On 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
This makes the most sense. I don't think the message length limits actually stop purely legitimate messages, since you'd have to write an extremely long message to pass the limit! The limit seems to be in place to stop emails that are trailing copies of previous posts in the topic, and those are annoying if left in. If we increase the message limit then it would really only be increasing the number of old message copies tacked on to the end of people's posts. On a separate but related note, after sending off that notice to Yahoo yesterday, my sent folder has started saving copies of messages I reply to! Hurray! --- On Sat, 8/18/12, Damien C. Pendleton dam...@dcpendleton.co.uk wrote: From: Damien C. Pendleton dam...@dcpendleton.co.uk Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Saturday, August 18, 2012, 10:10 AM Hi Yohandy, As Thomas and I have discussed, this would not be practical. We're not talking about a connection speed of broadband versus dialup here, we are also talking about server space, Mailman's performance in sending several potentially large messages, bandwidth limits and prices set by hosts, and everything else from the server administration side of things. We have both therefore come to the conclusion that from an administrative point of view, things are best left standing as they are. Cheers. Damien. -Original Message- From: Yohandy Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 2:50 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Thomas, I have a suggestion: how about increasing message size, or better yet, removing it all together. If we were in the dialup days I'd understand why we'd need to trim down emails, but is it really necessary nowadays? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi, Does it cost to use yahoo or google groups? I seem to recall the list got changed from one of these but I don't recall the reason why. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Darren, Well, there are a few good reasons for not increasing the message size to 20 KB. First, is financial. Whoever maintains the Audyssey domain, server, and list will have to pay for extra bandwidth being used by the list. The larger the messages the more bandwidth it will take for Mailman to post several copies of the same message. That cost will directly effect the guy who is paying for the Audyssey domain, bandwidth, etc. That happens to be Raul, but there has been discussion of turning the list over to me so I can just put it on the same service plan as my USA Games account. Therefore the cost would be my responsibility. Second, is that the larger the size of the messages the more time it will take Mailman to post that message to everyone on the list. I realise an extra 10 KB doesn't sound like much on the surface, but is actually quite a lot if you sit down and do the math. For example, let us say that 50 messages are posted to the list on a daily basis. At 10 KB that will equal something like 0.5 MB coming into Mailman. Now, Mailman has to copy and repost all 50 messages to 300 list members which adds up to something like 150 MB in messages going out. Now, let's add an additional 10 KB of length to all 50 messages and watch our output go from 150 MB per day to 300 MB per day. That's something like 9 to 10 GB a month in messages alone. That's a dramatic increase that Mailman has to handle when we can cut that in half by limiting the message length to 10 KB. Finally,increasing the size doesn't resolve the initial problem being discussed here. Allen wanted to know if a message was rejected can he get his original message back. The answer is no, because the software doesn't support that option. Therefore if a message is 21 KB in size and the maximum length is 20 KB someone is still likely to complain about the fact they lost their original message simply because he or she didn't trim the message in the first place. So increasing the length from 10 KB to 20 KB would not resolve the issue being discussed and would add additional problems for the list moderators and maintainers in the process. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, Then why not increase the msg size to 20kb instead of 10? This will help a little perhaps? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Allan, As far as I am aware this is because there are over 300 members on the list, and when the list is in one of its heavier moments such free list providers can't process the high-traffic data easily enough to accommodate it, which means some people don't get the messages. Regards, Damien. -Original Message- From: Allan Thompson Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:47 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi, Does it cost to use yahoo or google groups? I seem to recall the list got changed from one of these but I don't recall the reason why. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Darren, Well, there are a few good reasons for not increasing the message size to 20 KB. First, is financial. Whoever maintains the Audyssey domain, server, and list will have to pay for extra bandwidth being used by the list. The larger the messages the more bandwidth it will take for Mailman to post several copies of the same message. That cost will directly effect the guy who is paying for the Audyssey domain, bandwidth, etc. That happens to be Raul, but there has been discussion of turning the list over to me so I can just put it on the same service plan as my USA Games account. Therefore the cost would be my responsibility. Second, is that the larger the size of the messages the more time it will take Mailman to post that message to everyone on the list. I realise an extra 10 KB doesn't sound like much on the surface, but is actually quite a lot if you sit down and do the math. For example, let us say that 50 messages are posted to the list on a daily basis. At 10 KB that will equal something like 0.5 MB coming into Mailman. Now, Mailman has to copy and repost all 50 messages to 300 list members which adds up to something like 150 MB in messages going out. Now, let's add an additional 10 KB of length to all 50 messages and watch our output go from 150 MB per day to 300 MB per day. That's something like 9 to 10 GB a month in messages alone. That's a dramatic increase that Mailman has to handle when we can cut that in half by limiting the message length to 10 KB. Finally,increasing the size doesn't resolve the initial problem being discussed here. Allen wanted to know if a message was rejected can he get his original message back. The answer is no, because the software doesn't support that option. Therefore if a message is 21 KB in size and the maximum length is 20 KB someone is still likely to complain about the fact they lost their original message simply because he or she didn't trim the message in the first place. So increasing the length from 10 KB to 20 KB would not resolve the issue being discussed and would add additional problems for the list moderators and maintainers in the process. Cheers! On 8/18/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, Then why not increase the msg size to 20kb instead of 10? This will help a little perhaps? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi, Thank you for answering that. I guess the sent folder copies is the way to go. I know someone mentioned making rules for your email program. Is it possible to make a rule that limits a message to a certain size when it is being sent to this list? Just thought I would ask. I am totally clueless about whatever that is. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Damien C. Pendleton To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Allan, As far as I am aware this is because there are over 300 members on the list, and when the list is in one of its heavier moments such free list providers can't process the high-traffic data easily enough to accommodate it, which means some people don't get the messages. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Allan, Email rules generally only refer to those that are received, and are useful for illiminating spam, categorising emails and the like. I have never yet seen an email client that can apply rules to messages you send. Hope this helps. Regards, Damien. -Original Message- From: Allan Thompson Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:20 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi, Thank you for answering that. I guess the sent folder copies is the way to go. I know someone mentioned making rules for your email program. Is it possible to make a rule that limits a message to a certain size when it is being sent to this list? Just thought I would ask. I am totally clueless about whatever that is. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] a bone to pick
I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net Subject: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: gamers discussion list Gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 1:57 PM I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi, Have you ever thought about the sent folder? :D Hth, -Michael. -Original Message- From: Jeremy Kaldobsky Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:59 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net Subject: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: gamers discussion list Gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 1:57 PM I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
My sent folder doesn't save copies of email replies, only emails I've started from scratch. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Michael Taboada mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com wrote: From: Michael Taboada mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 3:09 PM Hi, Have you ever thought about the sent folder? :D Hth, -Michael. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi, sorry, but could someone explain that one for me? I don't understand what corrections you'd have to make to a message which is too long? Thanks from Lori. -- From: Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:59 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net Subject: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: gamers discussion list Gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 1:57 PM I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
The messages themselves are rarely too long, but they become too long when people forget to remove the old messages that are tacked on to the end. When you read someone's post, press reply, and type in your own message, a copy of the original person's message is now at the bottom of your own along with any extra messages that they had on the end of theirs. This can quickly double or triple the length of the message. Removing these unwanted copies of old message are the corrections I was referring to. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Lori Duncan lori_dunca...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Lori Duncan lori_dunca...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 3:36 PM Hi, sorry, but could someone explain that one for me? I don't understand what corrections you'd have to make to a message which is too long? Thanks from Lori. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi, Ah. Fare enough. -Michael. -Original Message- From: Jeremy Kaldobsky Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:25 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick My sent folder doesn't save copies of email replies, only emails I've started from scratch. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Michael Taboada mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com wrote: From: Michael Taboada mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 3:09 PM Hi, Have you ever thought about the sent folder? :D Hth, -Michael. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Ah, thanks, I understand now, I've never looked at it before that way. From Lori. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Exactly! Thank you for expressing that. I ran into the same situation a while back. I worked really hard on some content I pulled out of various gaming material and from memory to give to the list, but it got rejected, and just like that, it was gone. I just didn't have the gumption to bother going thru all that again, due to a simple,. stupid mistake. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Kaldobsky To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Jeremy, Why don't you set your email options to save all sent messages? That is what I have my program do. Or you could have it warn you if a message is too large. Or you could trim it to just the last message your are replying to which is what I do. To be on topic you could write a game that reads your emails and answers them for you with stock phrases just like Jim Kitchen does in his tag line. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
I do normally trim down to only the last message. The point we are trying to make is that if you accidentally forget to do that, you might as well highlight your entire email and press delete because it's doomed as soon as you press send. --- On Fri, 8/17/12, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Friday, August 17, 2012, 5:51 PM Hi Jeremy, Why don't you set your email options to save all sent messages? That is what I have my program do. Or you could have it warn you if a message is too large. Or you could trim it to just the last message your are replying to which is what I do. To be on topic you could write a game that reads your emails and answers them for you with stock phrases just like Jim Kitchen does in his tag line. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Al and all, I'm Sorry, but that really isn't possible with Mailman. Once a message is rejected, disguarded, etc the message itself is deleted by Mailman and is removed from the message queue. There is no automatic way to have Mailman send the message back to the original sender via Mailman that I'm aware of. The only way this might be accomplished is if the moderator in charge manually copied the message into a new e-mail, e-mailed it to the original sender, etc along with the automatically generated rejection notice. The problem is that we get quite a large number of messages in the moderator inbox for approval and more than half are rejected because they are over the message length, and we'd have to copy and e-mail every single one of those back to the original poster by hand. Would you seriously want to do that yourself? The thing is that if we started doing this we might as well make the changes ourselves and then post it directly to the list as there would be little point to returning the posters message for them to correct and repost if we had to do all the extra work anyway. :D Cheers! On 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: I would just like to ask the moderators, or whoever is in charge of such things, that if my email is rejected due to size (I make mistakes, I'm human after all) that at least give me the email content back. This particular time it was an email I must have written at least a week ago if not longer. I have no idea what it was about, but I am sure it was game content considering the subject line. I am only asking for a fair chance to correct my mistake and resend the email back fixed to the size limit. I feel this is a very reasonable request, that would far overshadow any trouble it would take for the moderators or whoever is in charge of such things to do. Thank you, al al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Al and all, Most e-mail clients these days will allow you to backup a copy of every single message you send. Therefore if a message gets rejected you feel shouldn't have the easiest way to edit and resend that post is by checking your sent items folder in Outlook Express, Outlook, Thunderbird, etc and update the message in question. As long as you take advantage of that feature provided by your e-mail client resending messages you spent ages writing shouldn't be a difficult issue. That's at least the way we see it. On 8/17/12, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Exactly! Thank you for expressing that. I ran into the same situation a while back. I worked really hard on some content I pulled out of various gaming material and from memory to give to the list, but it got rejected, and just like that, it was gone. I just didn't have the gumption to bother going thru all that again, due to a simple,. stupid mistake. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Jeremy, That's strange. What e-mail client are you using? I pretty much assumed that all e-mail clients make backup copies of every message regardless if it is written from scratch or if it is a responce to someone. That's been my experience at any rate. :D On 8/17/12, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: My sent folder doesn't save copies of email replies, only emails I've started from scratch. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Well, I guess that's that then. Thanks for responding with an answer. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick Hi Al and all, I'm Sorry, but that really isn't possible with Mailman. Once a message is rejected, disguarded, etc the message itself is deleted by Mailman and is removed from the message queue. There is no automatic way to have Mailman send the message back to the original sender via Mailman that I'm aware of. The only way this might be accomplished is if the moderator in charge manually copied the message into a new e-mail, e-mailed it to the original sender, etc along with the automatically generated rejection notice. The problem is that we get quite a large number of messages in the moderator inbox for approval and more than half are rejected because they are over the message length, and we'd have to copy and e-mail every single one of those back to the original poster by hand. Would you seriously want to do that yourself? The thing is that if we started doing this we might as well make the changes ourselves and then post it directly to the list as there would be little point to returning the posters message for them to correct and repost if we had to do all the extra work anyway. :D Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bone to pick
Hi Jeremey, That maybe so, but I don't see a solution to this problem. What's your suggestion to resolve this problem? Itseems to me anything we might suggest wouldn'tsatisfy everyone. There would be just as many issues and hassles with the solution =as the current problem. A: We could remove the message limits. The problem is the people who don't have to trim won't. Therefore sooner than later instead of small messages that are 10 KB in size will grow to 100 KB with no end in sight. I've been on lists like that where I could read the contents of an entire thread in one single message, and that's just rediculous. It takes longer to open that message in a e-mail client, takes longer to download, and for people in foreign countries that have to pay for the amount of bandwidth etc they use is more expensive. B: We could double the message length to 20 KB. Unfortunately, we are back to where we started. If someone responds to a message without trimming or whatever and it ends up being rejected because it is 21 KB in size people will complain that it was either unfairly rejected or want a copy of their message back so they can edit it. that's not possible to do through Mailman as far as I know. C: We can copy the original messages into a new e-mail, mail it back to the original senders, which will double the work of the moderators. If we have 10 messages that day and 8 get rejected the moderator gets stuck with returning 8 messages simply because the original poster didn't follow the list guidelines for one reason or another. That's not especially fair to the moderator who does not have to return messages that are disgarded or rejected. D: We could edit and forward messages.That is we, the moderators, could edit the messages and then forward them on to the list. This is probably the only fair solution for the problem for end users but royally sucks from a moderator point of view because we got stuck with all the work. If we do all the work what will convince the list members to make those kinds of corrections themselves when they have the list moderator there to do it for them? On 8/17/12, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: I completely and totally agree. A few times I've forgotten to remove the excess past posts material and my message was rejected. The worst part about the situation is that they were almost always very long posts that took me a while to write. When that happens it's the most depressing thing that knocks you down so hard that you don't even feel like trying to retype it all out again. You know that even if you do, it will somehow turn out to be half as long and only 10% of the quality of the lost original. If we had the original back, then we could make the necessary correction and post it again. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
