Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads.
Ever seen this practice in games? (grinning, 'cause me thinks me knows the answer!) It's a fine line, though, because, as an example, Troopanum II is not Aliens in the Outback, nor is Tarzan Junior Hunter Joe.. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads. Hi Charles, Well, that’s certainly one way of looking at it. There is even a term for it. It is called perceived obsolescence. The basic idea of this marketing strategy is to take a product you have, repackage it, change the look or feel a little bit, and attempt to market it as a new product even though it is the same old product in new packaging. So, yeah, they are trying to rip you off if they can, or at the very least trying to make their product look newer and more attractive to their customers. For example, the biggest target market for this type of marketing is children. Toy manufacturers know if they change a popular toy just a little and sell it again kids will want it even if it is similar to the toy they have. This month they might have Night Strike Batman with some sort of night vision goggles or something, and next month they will come out with Ninja Attack batman with a couple of swords. The figure in the box is the same action figure but the equipment included is a little different and the packaging he is in is different, but kids don’t know or particularly care about that. They see the new Batman figure and want it, because his old toy is not as cool as the new one etc. Believe me my son is bad about wanting the same figure again and again just because the action figure inside is a tad newer/different than the one he has. The thing is every large company does this at some level, and I do understand why they do it. If you are in the business of selling cars you aren't going to completely invent a new car every year. Instead you might come up with some newer paint schemes on the 2011 model, or might change the look of the body a bit, throw in a feature from the limited model in the standard model, etc but you aren't going to redesign that entire car from scratch. That costs a lot of time and money in research and development. So they get by for another year or two on the same basic model, but make it a little more attractive looking than last years model, and throw in a few extras like power seats as a bonus. Well, software developers aren't that much different. Some want to make a few new sales, reach that bottom line, and if they can tinker with the UI a little, fix a couple of bugs, and resell it as 2.0 they'll do it just to make a few bucks. That's why upgrading from say Office 2007 to Office 2010 really isn't any big deal. I don't see a single thing 2010 has I don't already have with 2007 in terms of my personal needs so won't buy it on those grounds. Cheers! On 1/12/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So they're ripping you off while making you think they're not. In the case of trying to find moved settings, though, it seems to me like it's less functional or, at best, no better than the predecessor, more confusing, and more expensive. I still agree with my subject line in this case. In the case of JAWS 12, I like the newer arrangement of settings changes in some ways, and I like the approach to Microsoft's ribbons in MS Word 7, although the price for those changes seems sort of steep from the viewpoint of an end user who doesn't know much about what went into the making and incorporation of these improvements. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads.
Hi Charles, I don't know. Maybe the Microsoft developers are mad as a hatter, crazier than a bed bug, or outright loons. Grin. Actually, there is a reason but it doesn't make sense to the common user from a practical standpoint. Essentially, from a business perspective one way to resell a software product and keep that product going is to convince their target market that the product they have is out dated, obsolete, and the new product is somehow infurior even if there really isn't anything new for sale. One way to do that is to perform an inexpensive upgrade on the software like removing classic menus and replacing them with menu ribbons, add some flashier graphics, and a newer and sexier interface that just looks new. Of course, there might not really be anything new or revolutionary about the product itself, but the new look and feel might convince people that this newer version is better than the version they have. For example, I see this done all the time with computers. You might walk through Wal-Mart and see an HP or Compaq for $699, with certain specs, and adds screaming how much newer and better this system is compared to the previous model. Now, by March or April you will see that computer marked down to $499 and there will be a HP right next to it for $699. In most of the cases the $699 computer might have most of the same software, hardware, etc but they put it in a newer looking case, paint it a different color, and try and convince you that the $499 model is infurior to the $699 model even though the hardware is almost identical. Maybe it has a 3.8 GHZ processor over a 3.6 GHZ processor, but at that speed the performance isn't going to be that big a deal for the average computer user. It just sounds better, but in practical terms it isn't worth throwing away the computer you purchased six months ago. In the long run software developers do the same thing. For example, I have downloaded and tested Jaws 12 and there isn't a thing it can do that Jaws 11 can't already do, and I personally think it is an absolute waist of an SMA. They didn't even address some outstanding bugs such as the fact under Windows 7 it incorrectly identifies the number of items in a list, and a couple of other bugs. There is a lot of non-essential changes in Jaws 12, but I frankly don't think it is worth an upgrade so I have no plans to renew my SMA at this time. In fact, some of the changes they did with the config manager etc I don't even like. It is a classic case of fixing something that wasn't even broke, and not fixing something that was broke. Software companies pull this kind of stuff all of the time. On 1/12/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: As for finding settings, why do they keep getting moved into different locations? Why can't they just leave well enough alone? If they were logically located in previous versions of Windows, leave them there. The same goes for the desktop and the menu system. In Microsoft Office, the pulldown menus were just fine, and they were pretty much straightforward. Then they had to go and incorporate a stupid ribbon system that drives people crazy, especially those of us who cannot see. I know some sighted people who feel as I do, so it's not just the visually impaired or blind people who think this. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads.
I couldn't agree more. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:11 PM Subject: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke,don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads. As for finding settings, why do they keep getting moved into different locations? Why can't they just leave well enough alone? If they were logically located in previous versions of Windows, leave them there. The same goes for the desktop and the menu system. In Microsoft Office, the pulldown menus were just fine, and they were pretty much straightforward. Then they had to go and incorporate a stupid ribbon system that drives people crazy, especially those of us who cannot see. I know some sighted people who feel as I do, so it's not just the visually impaired or blind people who think this. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Sticks version game pads. That might be the difference Tom. You're running it in a 32 bit world and at least I'm trying to run it in a 64 bit world. Maybe we just can't get the force feedback to work in a k64 bit world. Ron Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Sticks version game pads. Hi, Both of those were released before Windows 7 came out. I happen to be running Windows 7 32-bit and the drivers seam to work just peachy. So it could be an issue of 32-bit vs 64-bit or you guys just aren't looking in the right place. On 1/12/11, Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com wrote: Hi. Um. the sgc2909 and sgc2910 apparently don't have correct drivers for win7. My sgc2910 doesn't seem to work with force feedback either. You say there's a checkbox to enable force feedback. my sgc2910 doesn't have that. Weird. I'll probably be getting a racing wheel at some point soon. Maybe I should get a new game pad while I'm at it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads.
So they're ripping you off while making you think they're not. In the case of trying to find moved settings, though, it seems to me like it's less functional or, at best, no better than the predecessor, more confusing, and more expensive. I still agree with my subject line in this case. In the case of JAWS 12, I like the newer arrangement of settings changes in some ways, and I like the approach to Microsoft's ribbons in MS Word 7, although the price for those changes seems sort of steep from the viewpoint of an end user who doesn't know much about what went into the making and incorporation of these improvements. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads. Hi Charles, I don't know. Maybe the Microsoft developers are mad as a hatter, crazier than a bed bug, or outright loons. Grin. Actually, there is a reason but it doesn't make sense to the common user from a practical standpoint. Essentially, from a business perspective one way to resell a software product and keep that product going is to convince their target market that the product they have is out dated, obsolete, and the new product is somehow infurior even if there really isn't anything new for sale. One way to do that is to perform an inexpensive upgrade on the software like removing classic menus and replacing them with menu ribbons, add some flashier graphics, and a newer and sexier interface that just looks new. Of course, there might not really be anything new or revolutionary about the product itself, but the new look and feel might convince people that this newer version is better than the version they have. For example, I see this done all the time with computers. You might walk through Wal-Mart and see an HP or Compaq for $699, with certain specs, and adds screaming how much newer and better this system is compared to the previous model. Now, by March or April you will see that computer marked down to $499 and there will be a HP right next to it for $699. In most of the cases the $699 computer might have most of the same software, hardware, etc but they put it in a newer looking case, paint it a different color, and try and convince you that the $499 model is infurior to the $699 model even though the hardware is almost identical. Maybe it has a 3.8 GHZ processor over a 3.6 GHZ processor, but at that speed the performance isn't going to be that big a deal for the average computer user. It just sounds better, but in practical terms it isn't worth throwing away the computer you purchased six months ago. In the long run software developers do the same thing. For example, I have downloaded and tested Jaws 12 and there isn't a thing it can do that Jaws 11 can't already do, and I personally think it is an absolute waist of an SMA. They didn't even address some outstanding bugs such as the fact under Windows 7 it incorrectly identifies the number of items in a list, and a couple of other bugs. There is a lot of non-essential changes in Jaws 12, but I frankly don't think it is worth an upgrade so I have no plans to renew my SMA at this time. In fact, some of the changes they did with the config manager etc I don't even like. It is a classic case of fixing something that wasn't even broke, and not fixing something that was broke. Software companies pull this kind of stuff all of the time. On 1/12/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: As for finding settings, why do they keep getting moved into different locations? Why can't they just leave well enough alone? If they were logically located in previous versions of Windows, leave them there. The same goes for the desktop and the menu system. In Microsoft Office, the pulldown menus were just fine, and they were pretty much straightforward. Then they had to go and incorporate a stupid ribbon system that drives people crazy, especially those of us who cannot see. I know some sighted people who feel as I do, so it's not just the visually impaired or blind people who think this. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can
Re: [Audyssey] if it ain't broke, don't fix it - Re: Sticks version game pads.
Hi Charles, Well, that’s certainly one way of looking at it. There is even a term for it. It is called perceived obsolescence. The basic idea of this marketing strategy is to take a product you have, repackage it, change the look or feel a little bit, and attempt to market it as a new product even though it is the same old product in new packaging. So, yeah, they are trying to rip you off if they can, or at the very least trying to make their product look newer and more attractive to their customers. For example, the biggest target market for this type of marketing is children. Toy manufacturers know if they change a popular toy just a little and sell it again kids will want it even if it is similar to the toy they have. This month they might have Night Strike Batman with some sort of night vision goggles or something, and next month they will come out with Ninja Attack batman with a couple of swords. The figure in the box is the same action figure but the equipment included is a little different and the packaging he is in is different, but kids don’t know or particularly care about that. They see the new Batman figure and want it, because his old toy is not as cool as the new one etc. Believe me my son is bad about wanting the same figure again and again just because the action figure inside is a tad newer/different than the one he has. The thing is every large company does this at some level, and I do understand why they do it. If you are in the business of selling cars you aren't going to completely invent a new car every year. Instead you might come up with some newer paint schemes on the 2011 model, or might change the look of the body a bit, throw in a feature from the limited model in the standard model, etc but you aren't going to redesign that entire car from scratch. That costs a lot of time and money in research and development. So they get by for another year or two on the same basic model, but make it a little more attractive looking than last years model, and throw in a few extras like power seats as a bonus. Well, software developers aren't that much different. Some want to make a few new sales, reach that bottom line, and if they can tinker with the UI a little, fix a couple of bugs, and resell it as 2.0 they'll do it just to make a few bucks. That's why upgrading from say Office 2007 to Office 2010 really isn't any big deal. I don't see a single thing 2010 has I don't already have with 2007 in terms of my personal needs so won't buy it on those grounds. Cheers! On 1/12/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: So they're ripping you off while making you think they're not. In the case of trying to find moved settings, though, it seems to me like it's less functional or, at best, no better than the predecessor, more confusing, and more expensive. I still agree with my subject line in this case. In the case of JAWS 12, I like the newer arrangement of settings changes in some ways, and I like the approach to Microsoft's ribbons in MS Word 7, although the price for those changes seems sort of steep from the viewpoint of an end user who doesn't know much about what went into the making and incorporation of these improvements. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
