Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Thomas, I never even saw the Atari 7800 machine or any of it's games. I just had the Atari 2600 and an Atari 800 XL home computer. I now have trouble remembering which games I played on which machine. But I did also buy an external five and a quarter floppy drive for the Atari 800 XL home computer. That was the second computer that I wrote games for. The first was a Texas Instruments 99 4A. And for that computer I bought a cable that connected to a tape recorder to save files. And the Atari 800 XL home computer was the first computer that I had that talked. It was a program named Sams. Not a screen reader, but it would try to say anything that you typed in. And I mean anything. That was fun. I wish that the sapi5 voices would try to say anything that you typed in. It would also be cool if you could make the sapi5.1 voices sing like the DecTalk. grin But games like my draw poker and star mule I wrote first on those first computers way back when. BFN Jim I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
I agree with you, Desiree. Your replybefore and after Trouble told you to get a life was perfectly reasonable. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hey, Desiree. I have to agree with Charles and yourself, you was not flaming anyone on here. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Jim, Well, The Atari 7800 basically had a lot of the same games as the Atari 2600 and 5200, but thanks to more memory and better graphics technology the newer releases for the 7800 had more colors, better graphics, and was just over all better visually.Plus the nice thing about the 7800+ could also play cartrages from the 2600 and 5200 so you could really play any Atari game on it if you wished. It was definitely Atari's best console, but the company went bankrupt before the 7800 really had much of a chance to become popular. In fact, do to Atari going bankrupt many stores sold their stock of 7800's to Odd Lots, AKA Big Lots, where they were sold at rock bottom prices. I remember that's how I ended up with my 7800. My mom and dad purchased a 7800 and several games from Odd Lots, now Big Lots, for under $100. Over the years I've managed to pick up extra games through places like Ebay, and thanks to Atari emulators I can play just about any Atari game I want with my son on the family computer. On 5/24/2012 6:06 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Thomas, I never even saw the Atari 7800 machine or any of it's games. I just had the Atari 2600 and an Atari 800 XL home computer. I now have trouble remembering which games I played on which machine. But I did also buy an external five and a quarter floppy drive for the Atari 800 XL home computer. That was the second computer that I wrote games for. The first was a Texas Instruments 99 4A. And for that computer I bought a cable that connected to a tape recorder to save files. And the Atari 800 XL home computer was the first computer that I had that talked. It was a program named Sams. Not a screen reader, but it would try to say anything that you typed in. And I mean anything. That was fun. I wish that the sapi5 voices would try to say anything that you typed in. It would also be cool if you could make the sapi5.1 voices sing like the DecTalk. grin But games like my draw poker and star mule I wrote first on those first computers way back when. BFN Jim --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Thomas, Not sure if I ever played the Atari 2600 E T game, might have, seems it was not very good. Also had an Atari 2600 game of chicken crossing the road game that was pretty bad. Just one or two chickens at the bottom of the screen and you tried to move them up the screen to cross 6 lanes of traffic. Just pretty bad. I also did not care much for the Atari 2600 game of Star Trek. Think that the screen was split into 3 sections. One was just a picture of the Star Ship Enterprise. And one was tactile with I think dots representing the ships in battle. Just didn't feel that it was up to Star Trek quality. BFN Jim Why did the bird cross the kitchen? Too eat, too eat! j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Must have ben added recent, because before version 5.1 there was no 3 finger triple tap. You have to watch using it or you turn voice over off instead of the curtain on. At 08:30 PM 5/22/2012, you wrote: Hi, Actually that's not quite true Re: The post 2 below. The screen curtain does, in fact, turn off the screen on the iPhone and it goes completely black. Cheers, -Michael. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Get a life and quit wining! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
In hopes that the message was properly received, who was this in response to? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Get a life and quit wining! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Maybe this will drive the point home to those who don't understand: Can you get a Rolls Royce for the cost of a VW? Why not? Aren't they both cars? There are differences, but I hope they get the idea? A good reputation is built on quality from the ground up. You won't find a Rolex for the cost of a Timex. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Trouble, That's an apt comparison. A lot of people gripe and complain about the price of an Apple but they don't seem to realize the cost comes from the fact Apple strives to use high grade hardware and software. That is why they have a reputation of having better computers than say some cheap e-machine. PCs on the other hand tend to be very cheap, because they are largely composed of mass produced cheap parts. Apple's software standards are just as high as their hardware ones. Yes, unfortunatelyit sets restrictions on developers, but in perspective it makes sense. Apple is just attempting to get the best possible user experience for everyone. Therefore developing an app that is exclusively for the blind that has no use to a sighted person isn't necessarily providing an equal user experience for everyone. On 5/22/2012 7:28 AM, Trouble wrote: Its that attitude that turns sighted people off listening to anything the blind community has to say. Apple took a step forward in making there products accessible with no added cost to the consumer. True, there products are not cheap, but your getting the best in parts. If you got the same type of parts for your PC. You would find out that the cost is not much more than what Apple is selling for. That is the one reason why PC's did better in the market, because the usage of lesser grade parts. Its almost like cars. You can buy the same car with all the bells and whistles or get that car without for a whole lot cheaper. Apple don't give you that choice. They say its all or nothing and you get quality. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Whoa. Who were you talking to? Are you threatening me? I am the great Cornholio! I come from Lake Titicaca! -Original Message- From: Trouble Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:41 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Get a life and quit wining! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Nope, screen curtain existing and acting the way it acts isn't a recent addition. I hopped onboard the iOS wagon within a couple of months of VoiceOver being available, and it was the same back then. Same gesture to activate it too. Scott On 5/23/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Must have ben added recent, because before version 5.1 there was no 3 finger triple tap. You have to watch using it or you turn voice over off instead of the curtain on. At 08:30 PM 5/22/2012, you wrote: Hi, Actually that's not quite true Re: The post 2 below. The screen curtain does, in fact, turn off the screen on the iPhone and it goes completely black. Cheers, -Michael. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Wow, some people really can't stand to be wrong. Do you honestly think I care what someone on a list says about me? So I should get a life because I ask that if I am wrong about something, there are better ways to say it than to speak to someone as if they're 5 years old? I think it's you who needs to get a life, buddy, and your cute little pen name, Trouble, is exactly what you sound like. On 5/23/12, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, screen curtain existing and acting the way it acts isn't a recent addition. I hopped onboard the iOS wagon within a couple of months of VoiceOver being available, and it was the same back then. Same gesture to activate it too. Scott On 5/23/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Must have ben added recent, because before version 5.1 there was no 3 finger triple tap. You have to watch using it or you turn voice over off instead of the curtain on. At 08:30 PM 5/22/2012, you wrote: Hi, Actually that's not quite true Re: The post 2 below. The screen curtain does, in fact, turn off the screen on the iPhone and it goes completely black. Cheers, -Michael. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
What on earth are you talking about? This should be sent off list to Trouble, but I'd like to know where he even mentions what you are getting after him about? I see nothing at all wrong in the post you are replying to. Fact is, you, or the flaming you speak of, aren't even mentioned. Also, you replied to a message from Scott, not Trouble. But if you have a problem with someone, may I suggest that you take it up with them privately instead of on the list? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Wow, some people really can't stand to be wrong. Do you honestly think I care what someone on a list says about me? So I should get a life because I ask that if I am wrong about something, there are better ways to say it than to speak to someone as if they're 5 years old? I think it's you who needs to get a life, buddy, and your cute little pen name, Trouble, is exactly what you sound like. On 5/23/12, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, screen curtain existing and acting the way it acts isn't a recent addition. I hopped onboard the iOS wagon within a couple of months of VoiceOver being available, and it was the same back then. Same gesture to activate it too. Scott On 5/23/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Must have ben added recent, because before version 5.1 there was no 3 finger triple tap. You have to watch using it or you turn voice over off instead of the curtain on. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Jim, Yeah, there were actually quite a number of Atari games that were pretty lame. Especially, in hindsight. Between the fact that the onscreen graphics were pretty poor to begin with, and then poor game play some of those games were pretty bad. Especially, for the Atari 2600 series. Now, the Atari 7800 was actually a lot better. It had much better graphics and as I recall there were a lot better selection of games. However, it seems it was a little too late as Atari didn't last long after putting out the 7800 which was arguably their best console. However, by the time the 7800came on the seen Nintendo had entered the console market with the NES which was blowing Atari, Colleco, and Sega out of the water. On 5/23/2012 7:40 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Thomas, Not sure if I ever played the Atari 2600 E T game, might have, seems it was not very good. Also had an Atari 2600 game of chicken crossing the road game that was pretty bad. Just one or two chickens at the bottom of the screen and you tried to move them up the screen to cross 6 lanes of traffic. Just pretty bad. I also did not care much for the Atari 2600 game of Star Trek. Think that the screen was split into 3 sections. One was just a picture of the Star Ship Enterprise. And one was tactile with I think dots representing the ships in battle. Just didn't feel that it was up to Star Trek quality. BFN Jim Why did the bird cross the kitchen? Too eat, too eat! j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
First of all, I have no idea why the reply went to the wrong place. Second of all, if you look back a bit in the thread, you'll see a message where he tells me that before spouting off about apple products, I should buy one. Sorry, but I don't appreciate being talked down to like that, especially when it was later pointed out that he was wrong on the point he made about screen curtains anyway. Then, when I said I didn't appreciate being talked down to, he said I should get a life, on list, I might add. So I'll respond the same way, thank you. But I don't need to be on this list. I get enough messages per day from other lists as it is. On 5/23/12, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: What on earth are you talking about? This should be sent off list to Trouble, but I'd like to know where he even mentions what you are getting after him about? I see nothing at all wrong in the post you are replying to. Fact is, you, or the flaming you speak of, aren't even mentioned. Also, you replied to a message from Scott, not Trouble. But if you have a problem with someone, may I suggest that you take it up with them privately instead of on the list? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Wow, some people really can't stand to be wrong. Do you honestly think I care what someone on a list says about me? So I should get a life because I ask that if I am wrong about something, there are better ways to say it than to speak to someone as if they're 5 years old? I think it's you who needs to get a life, buddy, and your cute little pen name, Trouble, is exactly what you sound like. On 5/23/12, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, screen curtain existing and acting the way it acts isn't a recent addition. I hopped onboard the iOS wagon within a couple of months of VoiceOver being available, and it was the same back then. Same gesture to activate it too. Scott On 5/23/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Must have ben added recent, because before version 5.1 there was no 3 finger triple tap. You have to watch using it or you turn voice over off instead of the curtain on. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hey, Desiree. I have to say that I agree with you and Charles. I didn't see any flaming at all. I myself think he was a little out of line. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hey, Desiree. I have to agree with Charles and yourself, you was not flaming anyone on here. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Dennis, On the History channel they said that Atari not having standards and letting just about anyone develop just about anything for their system lead to the downfall of Atari. BTW My Windows games have their title on the screen, but that is it. And sighted people play the games at my place and say that they think that they are pretty cool. But I doubt very seriously that they go home and install them. Not with all of the great video games that they have. BFN Jim Now if I could only find the Video switch! j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Okay now I understand. When Tom was saying blind people, he was saying blind people who aren't me. I gather that's what you're doing in the message below, because I know for a fact you're blind, too, and you don't mind a graphic in the game. Thanks for clearing that up. Best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 10:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. I can't figure out why blind people don't think there should be at least a little feedback, even if it doesn't aid in the playing of the game, for the sighted gamer. Using that logic, there should be no sound for any game designed for a deaf gamer. Of course, if there were sound, maybe a blind player could play the game, too? But without any sound, the speaker must be broken, right? Same idea. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Ryan, Yes, I am certainly blind. However, I wasn't blind my entire life so perhaps that makes the difference. I know how sighted people think, and I know how blind people think. So I am in a position to understand both sides of the argument. However, the problem is that a sighted person knows no more about what it is like to be blind than a blind person knows what its like to see so often those people argue from a position of ignorance of the other party's perspective. In a situation like this one I get frustrated with the blind who say adding icons, graphics, etc to a game is unnecessary. Of course its unnecessary for a blind player, but since they don't understand how much a sighted person depends on sight they blithely make statements like they can learn to play without graphics. While that may be technically true the fact of the matter is most sighted people will be disinterested in the game if there aren't any graphics, and even if they do go as far to play a game by sound they would still want something to look at besides a black screen. The sooner blind people recognize this the sooner we'll be able to at least open up dialog between blind game developers and sighted game developers on how we can bridge the needs of blind and sighted users at the same time. However, instead of attempting to meet the needs of both blind and sighted gamers some blind people want to argue the point and force a sighted person to play our games as we do, and I'm afraid to say that will never happen unless we are willing to meet them half way. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Its that attitude that turns sighted people off listening to anything the blind community has to say. Apple took a step forward in making there products accessible with no added cost to the consumer. True, there products are not cheap, but your getting the best in parts. If you got the same type of parts for your PC. You would find out that the cost is not much more than what Apple is selling for. That is the one reason why PC's did better in the market, because the usage of lesser grade parts. Its almost like cars. You can buy the same car with all the bells and whistles or get that car without for a whole lot cheaper. Apple don't give you that choice. They say its all or nothing and you get quality. At 12:24 AM 5/22/2012, you wrote: Hi Charles, Yes, precisely. that's one of the things I'm still trying to figure out myself. It seems like the argument being made by some blind list members is the opinion they don't need graphics so nobody else does either. That's just being self-centered and is absolutely irrational thinking. If that were the case then we could say Richard De Steno's games don't need sounds either. A deaf-blind gamer only needs to read the text, he can't hear sounds, so we don't need sounds either. So let's get rid of all of the sounds and just use text. That would be totally ridiculous from a blind gamers point of view, because he or she can hear the sounds even if a deaf-blind gamer can't. Same principle applies to having some graphics in audio games for sighted players. Weather we can use them or not isn't the point. The entire point here is to make said games as playable to as many people as possible by adding audio for blind gamers, graphics for sighted players, text for a deaf-blind gamer, etc if possible. In that way everyone has access to the same app but through a different method. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 11:44 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: I can't figure out why blind people don't think there should be at least a little feedback, even if it doesn't aid in the playing of the game, for the sighted gamer. Using that logic, there should be no sound for any game designed for a deaf gamer. Of course, if there were sound, maybe a blind player could play the game, too? But without any sound, the speaker must be broken, right? Same idea. --- --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
If he wants to develop games for Apple and get them noticed by sighted and they will be noticed. The Apple mags see to that. Then no problem. Don't see audio games getting noticed by sighted on PC's that much. If ever heard of. Now as far as shutting the screen off on the iPhone or iPod or ipad is not sure. You can turn some of the graphics and back light down, but not off. There is always something on the screen showing status of what ever is running or just home screens. The only usage of the screen curtain is on Mac's, and even then its not total. You still have indicators showing status of usage or at least running. You should buy one before you state how they operate or are used. At 11:09 PM 5/21/2012, you wrote: Ah, I see. That makes sense now. I wonder, though, why Liam would choose to develop a game for such a restrictive market, when he could have held his captive audience of Windows gamers? I understand that times are changing, and Apple is at the forefront of most people's minds, both blind and sighted, but it doesn't make sense to me that he would abandon one group of gamers for another. I know most people do have IPhones these days anyway, so I suppose it's not a complete abandonment. As far as putting graphics in the interface goes, I don't think that would be too much to ask of him. However, this argument about whether or not sighted people freak out at a blank screen seems silly to me. If a blind person chooses to turn the screen off, and a sighted friend picks it up, won't they be looking at a black screen? You don't see them freaking out about that. Of course, one would hope that if it was a friend or family member who picked up the device, they would know and understand why. But if that option exists anyway, the issue of a black screen being possible, even if it is application specific, doesn't seem like such a big deal. On 5/21/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To begin with I doubt many sighted people do take the time or energy to look at perspective audio games. As someone who was sighted for many years I know I wouldn't have been interested in a game that didn't even have some basic graphics for game play. That's because for a sighted person their entire way of life is centered around visual feedback, and telling them they have to do this or that by sound alone is going to be a major turn off. They neither have the practice or skill to do that, because its outside their experience. Therefore some minimal graphics and animation would be required to interest them in an audio game. As far as why Apple is so restrictive its a bit of a long story. It has to do with the fact that Apple was the first to add a graphical user interface to Mac OS, and Apple became a recognized leader when it came to graphics and visual effects. Microsoft tried to catch up in the mid 90's with Windows 95, which was an obvious attempt to capture some of Apple's glory, but to this day Apple has a reputation for being the better OS for graphics designers, the film industry, and a leader in graphical user interfaces in general. Its for that reason we see both Windows and Linux heading towards a more Apple look and feel. Ubuntu has the new Unity desktop and Windows 8 has the Metro screen which are obvious attempts to copy Apple's own graphical user interface and support more touch screen devices. Its for this reason Apple guards its position as a leader in the graphical user interface field, and require that anyone who develops for their OS meet certain standards for seamless integration between apps and OS. For instance, if you have a program launcher with just text and no flashy graphical icon forget it pal Apple will reject your app because they expect program launchers to have a certain look and feel regardless if you can see it or not. If they let Liam or anyone else do what they want the over all visual experience, the user interface, will suffer because they chose not to follow Apple's design specifications. Windows on the other hand has standards, but it always has been understood that a developer was free to do what he or she wanted with the tools. Microsoft felt that being more open with the user interface, by not restricting users, that more developers would be willing to develop apps for their OS. Which has obviously paid off for Microsoft in the long run, but most third-party developers do attempt to stick to Microsoft's standards anyway unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. As for Android vs iPhone we are comparing apples and oranges. Google has adopted a more open interface, and anyone who knows a bit of Java is free to write an app for Android. All the same there are standards one can choose to follow, but aren't forced to use them. With iPhone everything is proprietary right down to the language, SDK, and tools used to write the app so a developer has less say so. In short, its just company
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi, Don't patronize me. It's really not necessary. I don't think I said anything that would cause anyone to panic, or misinform anyone. Being totally blind, my first thought when I hear the words screen curtain, I think just that, a curtain falling over the screen, obscuring everything. No one ever told me in the short time I had an IPhone that that was not the case, nor did I find it necessary to ask, since I didn't think it was that important. A simple, no, that's not correct, and then your explanation, would have done just fine. On 5/22/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: If he wants to develop games for Apple and get them noticed by sighted and they will be noticed. The Apple mags see to that. Then no problem. Don't see audio games getting noticed by sighted on PC's that much. If ever heard of. Now as far as shutting the screen off on the iPhone or iPod or ipad is not sure. You can turn some of the graphics and back light down, but not off. There is always something on the screen showing status of what ever is running or just home screens. The only usage of the screen curtain is on Mac's, and even then its not total. You still have indicators showing status of usage or at least running. You should buy one before you state how they operate or are used. At 11:09 PM 5/21/2012, you wrote: Ah, I see. That makes sense now. I wonder, though, why Liam would choose to develop a game for such a restrictive market, when he could have held his captive audience of Windows gamers? I understand that times are changing, and Apple is at the forefront of most people's minds, both blind and sighted, but it doesn't make sense to me that he would abandon one group of gamers for another. I know most people do have IPhones these days anyway, so I suppose it's not a complete abandonment. As far as putting graphics in the interface goes, I don't think that would be too much to ask of him. However, this argument about whether or not sighted people freak out at a blank screen seems silly to me. If a blind person chooses to turn the screen off, and a sighted friend picks it up, won't they be looking at a black screen? You don't see them freaking out about that. Of course, one would hope that if it was a friend or family member who picked up the device, they would know and understand why. But if that option exists anyway, the issue of a black screen being possible, even if it is application specific, doesn't seem like such a big deal. On 5/21/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To begin with I doubt many sighted people do take the time or energy to look at perspective audio games. As someone who was sighted for many years I know I wouldn't have been interested in a game that didn't even have some basic graphics for game play. That's because for a sighted person their entire way of life is centered around visual feedback, and telling them they have to do this or that by sound alone is going to be a major turn off. They neither have the practice or skill to do that, because its outside their experience. Therefore some minimal graphics and animation would be required to interest them in an audio game. As far as why Apple is so restrictive its a bit of a long story. It has to do with the fact that Apple was the first to add a graphical user interface to Mac OS, and Apple became a recognized leader when it came to graphics and visual effects. Microsoft tried to catch up in the mid 90's with Windows 95, which was an obvious attempt to capture some of Apple's glory, but to this day Apple has a reputation for being the better OS for graphics designers, the film industry, and a leader in graphical user interfaces in general. Its for that reason we see both Windows and Linux heading towards a more Apple look and feel. Ubuntu has the new Unity desktop and Windows 8 has the Metro screen which are obvious attempts to copy Apple's own graphical user interface and support more touch screen devices. Its for this reason Apple guards its position as a leader in the graphical user interface field, and require that anyone who develops for their OS meet certain standards for seamless integration between apps and OS. For instance, if you have a program launcher with just text and no flashy graphical icon forget it pal Apple will reject your app because they expect program launchers to have a certain look and feel regardless if you can see it or not. If they let Liam or anyone else do what they want the over all visual experience, the user interface, will suffer because they chose not to follow Apple's design specifications. Windows on the other hand has standards, but it always has been understood that a developer was free to do what he or she wanted with the tools. Microsoft felt that being more open with the user interface, by not restricting users, that more developers would be willing to develop apps for their OS.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Jim, That's very true. A lot of people believe because Atari opened the console to third-party developers and there were a number of unsuccessful games released it lead to Atari's downfall. Atari got a reputation for having very low quality games just when Nentendo was beginning to come out with their own console and sales for the NES were going through the roof while Atari went belly up. As far as I know Nintendo was one of the first to require developers to pay them to support their game console, and to use a review board to approve and reject perspective games for the console. Sega followed Nintendo's lead and began to do the same thing. Not surprisingly by the late 80's and early 90's video games had dramatically improved, and those standards set by Nintendo and Sega forced out all the lower quality games. Its for that reason Sony, Apple, Microsoft, etc continue this practice. Its a good way to make sure everything produced for the platform lives up to the quality and standards the brand expects. On 5/22/2012 5:04 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Dennis, On the History channel they said that Atari not having standards and letting just about anyone develop just about anything for their system lead to the downfall of Atari. BTW My Windows games have their title on the screen, but that is it. And sighted people play the games at my place and say that they think that they are pretty cool. But I doubt very seriously that they go home and install them. Not with all of the great video games that they have. BFN Jim Now if I could only find the Video switch! j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi, Actually that's not quite true Re: The post 2 below. The screen curtain does, in fact, turn off the screen on the iPhone and it goes completely black. Cheers, -Michael. -Original Message- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:23 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi, Don't patronize me. It's really not necessary. I don't think I said anything that would cause anyone to panic, or misinform anyone. Being totally blind, my first thought when I hear the words screen curtain, I think just that, a curtain falling over the screen, obscuring everything. No one ever told me in the short time I had an IPhone that that was not the case, nor did I find it necessary to ask, since I didn't think it was that important. A simple, no, that's not correct, and then your explanation, would have done just fine. On 5/22/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: If he wants to develop games for Apple and get them noticed by sighted and they will be noticed. The Apple mags see to that. Then no problem. Don't see audio games getting noticed by sighted on PC's that much. If ever heard of. Now as far as shutting the screen off on the iPhone or iPod or ipad is not sure. You can turn some of the graphics and back light down, but not off. There is always something on the screen showing status of what ever is running or just home screens. The only usage of the screen curtain is on Mac's, and even then its not total. You still have indicators showing status of usage or at least running. You should buy one before you state how they operate or are used. At 11:09 PM 5/21/2012, you wrote: Ah, I see. That makes sense now. I wonder, though, why Liam would choose to develop a game for such a restrictive market, when he could have held his captive audience of Windows gamers? I understand that times are changing, and Apple is at the forefront of most people's minds, both blind and sighted, but it doesn't make sense to me that he would abandon one group of gamers for another. I know most people do have IPhones these days anyway, so I suppose it's not a complete abandonment. As far as putting graphics in the interface goes, I don't think that would be too much to ask of him. However, this argument about whether or not sighted people freak out at a blank screen seems silly to me. If a blind person chooses to turn the screen off, and a sighted friend picks it up, won't they be looking at a black screen? You don't see them freaking out about that. Of course, one would hope that if it was a friend or family member who picked up the device, they would know and understand why. But if that option exists anyway, the issue of a black screen being possible, even if it is application specific, doesn't seem like such a big deal. On 5/21/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To begin with I doubt many sighted people do take the time or energy to look at perspective audio games. As someone who was sighted for many years I know I wouldn't have been interested in a game that didn't even have some basic graphics for game play. That's because for a sighted person their entire way of life is centered around visual feedback, and telling them they have to do this or that by sound alone is going to be a major turn off. They neither have the practice or skill to do that, because its outside their experience. Therefore some minimal graphics and animation would be required to interest them in an audio game. As far as why Apple is so restrictive its a bit of a long story. It has to do with the fact that Apple was the first to add a graphical user interface to Mac OS, and Apple became a recognized leader when it came to graphics and visual effects. Microsoft tried to catch up in the mid 90's with Windows 95, which was an obvious attempt to capture some of Apple's glory, but to this day Apple has a reputation for being the better OS for graphics designers, the film industry, and a leader in graphical user interfaces in general. Its for that reason we see both Windows and Linux heading towards a more Apple look and feel. Ubuntu has the new Unity desktop and Windows 8 has the Metro screen which are obvious attempts to copy Apple's own graphical user interface and support more touch screen devices. Its for this reason Apple guards its position as a leader in the graphical user interface field, and require that anyone who develops for their OS meet certain standards for seamless integration between apps and OS. For instance, if you have a program launcher with just text and no flashy graphical icon forget it pal Apple will reject your app because they expect program launchers to have a certain look and feel regardless if you can see it or not. If they let Liam or anyone else do what they want the over all visual experience, the user interface, will suffer because they chose not to follow Apple's design specifications. Windows on the other
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Ryan, Correct. By blind people I was actually referring to those people who disagree with the fact that images of any kind should be used to make our products more marketable to sighted users. I'm a totally blind person myself, but don't have any objections to using some graphics if that would interest sighted players in my products. Assuming, of course, it is within my financial means. For example, in Mysteries of the Ancients, now Ark of Hope, I purchased some icons of Greek temples, shields, swords, spears, tablets, and so on. While it strictly wasn't necessary I think it adds a little more professionalism to the game by using professional looking icons, and just looks better than a blank program launcher with some text on it. I'm working on a splash screen that comes up with an ancient Greek temple and the logo Tomb Hunter: The Ark of Hope on it. That's easy enough to do. Just purchase a picture of a Greek temple and have someone sighted add the title to the picture using Photo Shop or some other creditable image editing software. Cheers! On 5/22/2012 6:55 AM, Ryan Strunk wrote: Okay now I understand. When Tom was saying blind people, he was saying blind people who aren't me. I gather that's what you're doing in the message below, because I know for a fact you're blind, too, and you don't mind a graphic in the game. Thanks for clearing that up. Best, Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Trouble, That's an apt comparison. A lot of people gripe and complain about the price of an Apple but they don't seem to realize the cost comes from the fact Apple strives to use high grade hardware and software. That is why they have a reputation of having better computers than say some cheap e-machine. PCs on the other hand tend to be very cheap, because they are largely composed of mass produced cheap parts. Apple's software standards are just as high as their hardware ones. Yes, unfortunatelyit sets restrictions on developers, but in perspective it makes sense. Apple is just attempting to get the best possible user experience for everyone. Therefore developing an app that is exclusively for the blind that has no use to a sighted person isn't necessarily providing an equal user experience for everyone. On 5/22/2012 7:28 AM, Trouble wrote: Its that attitude that turns sighted people off listening to anything the blind community has to say. Apple took a step forward in making there products accessible with no added cost to the consumer. True, there products are not cheap, but your getting the best in parts. If you got the same type of parts for your PC. You would find out that the cost is not much more than what Apple is selling for. That is the one reason why PC's did better in the market, because the usage of lesser grade parts. Its almost like cars. You can buy the same car with all the bells and whistles or get that car without for a whole lot cheaper. Apple don't give you that choice. They say its all or nothing and you get quality. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Willem, Well, I agree about Apple being too controlling. However, its actually one reason for their success. They enforce standards for hardware, software, etc so that their PCs, iPhones, iPads, etc all have a universal look and feel. Therefore if a developer wants to support their technology they have to meet the standards Apple sets forth. If you think Apple is the only company in town that does this then let's point out some facts. No audio game developer would be given permission to write an audio game for Sony's Playstation for exactly the same reasons Apple give. You have to purchase a proprietary SDK that costs $20,000 or so, they have to give your project approval based on a written proposal, and then when its finished a review board will examine it to make sure it meets all company standards and requirements. If your game doesn't meet those specifications you are not allowed to release that game for the Playstation. Sony is in their own way just as draconian about their standards and policies as Apple. I agree it seems totally ridiculous, sounds extremely harsh, but once you understand the reasons behind those strict regulations it makes sense from a business point of view. Apple, Sony, and other companies like them have created such strict regulations for a couple of good reasons. One, they can force third-party developers to meet a certain standard of quality, stability, and to include certain features they believe will be of use to the largest amount of users of the product. Second, to keep script kiddies, amateur developers, and basically anyone who isn't a seasoned developer away from the device. As a result people who write apps for iPhones, Playstation, XBox, etc are large companies with lots of money and a reputation to go with it rather than some average Joe Blow. Third, by using proprietary development kits, tools, etc the parent company can make money off the tools and development kits required for the device. As you can well understand that's just capitalist marketing 101. Companies like apple are out to sell you everything and anything they can for the most amount of money they can get for it. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 1:12 AM, Willem Enter wrote: This is why I stear clear of apple products. Even though they make a nice phone and operating system, it's not worth it. They have too much control over things that a normal user should be allowed to choose about. What do they know about accessible games anyway? You can't even change the battery of your phone or upgrade your computer's hardware without violating their lisence agreement. You can't program for IOS without using their propriotary tools that cost a lot of money and then some know it all tech at the app store decides that an audio game needs graphics. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Charles, I suppose, but from a sighted users perspective displaying the manual in the main game window would be a bit hokey. Plus requires more coding to create an edit box, virtical scroll bar to scroll up and down in the document, and the edit field would have to be read only so commands sent to the game wouldn't be passed onto the document. In short the developer would be making it five times more difficult than just displaying a picture with some text on it just to use as a background for the main window. On 5/20/2012 11:07 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
or how about sighted people accept no graphics are there and use their ears? On 21 May 2012, at 10:46, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, I suppose, but from a sighted users perspective displaying the manual in the main game window would be a bit hokey. Plus requires more coding to create an edit box, virtical scroll bar to scroll up and down in the document, and the edit field would have to be read only so commands sent to the game wouldn't be passed onto the document. In short the developer would be making it five times more difficult than just displaying a picture with some text on it just to use as a background for the main window. On 5/20/2012 11:07 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
You all forget that it is a sited world and they make the rules. Now if you wanted to inquire to Apple about this condition. Then you would be able to know how it might be changed or accommodated. But, instead of even sending email to Apple. You gripe on a list that has nothing to do with Apple and never will. A lot of real smart people in the blind community i see. At 06:00 AM 5/21/2012, you wrote: or how about sighted people accept no graphics are there and use their ears? On 21 May 2012, at 10:46, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, I suppose, but from a sighted users perspective displaying the manual in the main game window would be a bit hokey. Plus requires more coding to create an edit box, virtical scroll bar to scroll up and down in the document, and the edit field would have to be read only so commands sent to the game wouldn't be passed onto the document. In short the developer would be making it five times more difficult than just displaying a picture with some text on it just to use as a background for the main window. On 5/20/2012 11:07 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
yes, but I'd still have a title, I mean a blank window even for me I don't like, especially if I play with a screen reader something to know what it is. even if its just the title and maybe a logo, or some lines at least I would know. swamp is like that, yes there are graphics but your ears are still a major part of what you would use to play. At 11:00 a.m. 21/05/2012 +0100, you wrote: or how about sighted people accept no graphics are there and use their ears? On 21 May 2012, at 10:46, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, I suppose, but from a sighted users perspective displaying the manual in the main game window would be a bit hokey. Plus requires more coding to create an edit box, virtical scroll bar to scroll up and down in the document, and the edit field would have to be read only so commands sent to the game wouldn't be passed onto the document. In short the developer would be making it five times more difficult than just displaying a picture with some text on it just to use as a background for the main window. On 5/20/2012 11:07 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Maybe I'm missing something here. Aren't you blind, too, Tom? Thanks, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:43 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Dark, Sigh.This is the problem inherent with blind people. Instead of just trying to meet sighted people like Apple half way and add a few graphics to make the main game window more visually appealing you are willing to dig your heals in and debate the point when nothing you say or do will change their minds on that score. If you don't like Apple's terms then don't buy their phone and don't develop games for their device. Its really that simple. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Good thought. I hadn't thought of that, but you're absolutely right. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 4:46 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Charles, I suppose, but from a sighted users perspective displaying the manual in the main game window would be a bit hokey. Plus requires more coding to create an edit box, virtical scroll bar to scroll up and down in the document, and the edit field would have to be read only so commands sent to the game wouldn't be passed onto the document. In short the developer would be making it five times more difficult than just displaying a picture with some text on it just to use as a background for the main window. On 5/20/2012 11:07 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
You're missing Apple's valid points with your statement. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: william lomas will.d.lo...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. or how about sighted people accept no graphics are there and use their ears? On 21 May 2012, at 10:46, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, I suppose, but from a sighted users perspective displaying the manual in the main game window would be a bit hokey. Plus requires more coding to create an edit box, virtical scroll bar to scroll up and down in the document, and the edit field would have to be read only so commands sent to the game wouldn't be passed onto the document. In short the developer would be making it five times more difficult than just displaying a picture with some text on it just to use as a background for the main window. On 5/20/2012 11:07 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Tom has a good perspective from both sides of the issue. Having been sighted, now blind, and a game developer who can see both sides of the issue with an open mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Maybe I'm missing something here. Aren't you blind, too, Tom? Thanks, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:43 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Dark, Sigh.This is the problem inherent with blind people. Instead of just trying to meet sighted people like Apple half way and add a few graphics to make the main game window more visually appealing you are willing to dig your heals in and debate the point when nothing you say or do will change their minds on that score. If you don't like Apple's terms then don't buy their phone and don't develop games for their device. Its really that simple. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi all, I would just like to pose a few questions here. Do sighted people even buy audio games from the ap store? I can see how they might look at them out of curiosity, but I've known very few sighted people who gave a thought to audio games (or knew they existed, for that matter) for Windows, so why should this change just because it's an Apple product? Besides, even if they did download the game, how many of them are going to have the patience to actually play using only their ears? And, speaking of Windows, most of this thread has been centered around the standards developers must meet for Apple and Playstation. Why is Windows so different? Microsoft gave people the freedom to choose between many different programming languages and versions of its OS. Why then should Apple be any different? Finally, what's the difference between developing games for the Android and games for the IPhone? Does Google impose such strict standards of quality as well? On 5/21/12, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Tom has a good perspective from both sides of the issue. Having been sighted, now blind, and a game developer who can see both sides of the issue with an open mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Maybe I'm missing something here. Aren't you blind, too, Tom? Thanks, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:43 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Dark, Sigh.This is the problem inherent with blind people. Instead of just trying to meet sighted people like Apple half way and add a few graphics to make the main game window more visually appealing you are willing to dig your heals in and debate the point when nothing you say or do will change their minds on that score. If you don't like Apple's terms then don't buy their phone and don't develop games for their device. Its really that simple. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Ryan, Yes, I am certainly blind. However, I wasn't blind my entire life so perhaps that makes the difference. I know how sighted people think, and I know how blind people think. So I am in a position to understand both sides of the argument. However, the problem is that a sighted person knows no more about what it is like to be blind than a blind person knows what its like to see so often those people argue from a position of ignorance of the other party's perspective. In a situation like this one I get frustrated with the blind who say adding icons, graphics, etc to a game is unnecessary. Of course its unnecessary for a blind player, but since they don't understand how much a sighted person depends on sight they blithely make statements like they can learn to play without graphics. While that may be technically true the fact of the matter is most sighted people will be disinterested in the game if there aren't any graphics, and even if they do go as far to play a game by sound they would still want something to look at besides a black screen. The sooner blind people recognize this the sooner we'll be able to at least open up dialog between blind game developers and sighted game developers on how we can bridge the needs of blind and sighted users at the same time. However, instead of attempting to meet the needs of both blind and sighted gamers some blind people want to argue the point and force a sighted person to play our games as we do, and I'm afraid to say that will never happen unless we are willing to meet them half way. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 7:22 AM, Ryan Strunk wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here. Aren't you blind, too, Tom? Thanks, Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Desiree, Here are some answers to your questions: As a sighted person, I find it highly unlikely that any 'pure audio' game would be popular with the sighted community. Games that are very audio heavy can work for the sighted, but unless there are at least some visual cues, the game will be lacking. The cues do not need to be large or significant, but they are as important to us as stereo audio is to you. Regarding Windows versus Apple and the Playstation, they are in fact extremely different. Both Apple and Playstation environments are very rigid and sanitized, whereas the Windows environment is extremely open. That said, there's something deeper going on: Apple computers from the beginning hit the big time via the publishing and visual arts industries. The Playstation was even more focused on visual entertainment - one of its key selling points was the sheer amount of video processing power available for it. Windows PCs on the other hand, were considered to be the boring yet reliable workhorses. It only made sense for screen readers and audio-based software to show up there first. As for the IPhone versus Android, yes, the Android market is much, much more free and open. The IPhone market, just like the Apple Mac Store, enforces very strict rules on what you are allowed to do, whereas pretty much any idiot who knows java can put out an Android app. One need only look at the available mudding clients for these platforms to see the difference: I know of one mudding app for Macs - Savitar. I know of zero mudding apps for the Playstation. But there are at least a hundred of them for Windows PCs. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I would just like to pose a few questions here. Do sighted people even buy audio games from the ap store? I can see how they might look at them out of curiosity, but I've known very few sighted people who gave a thought to audio games (or knew they existed, for that matter) for Windows, so why should this change just because it's an Apple product? Besides, even if they did download the game, how many of them are going to have the patience to actually play using only their ears? And, speaking of Windows, most of this thread has been centered around the standards developers must meet for Apple and Playstation. Why is Windows so different? Microsoft gave people the freedom to choose between many different programming languages and versions of its OS. Why then should Apple be any different? Finally, what's the difference between developing games for the Android and games for the IPhone? Does Google impose such strict standards of quality as well? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Desiree, To begin with I doubt many sighted people do take the time or energy to look at perspective audio games. As someone who was sighted for many years I know I wouldn't have been interested in a game that didn't even have some basic graphics for game play. That's because for a sighted person their entire way of life is centered around visual feedback, and telling them they have to do this or that by sound alone is going to be a major turn off. They neither have the practice or skill to do that, because its outside their experience. Therefore some minimal graphics and animation would be required to interest them in an audio game. As far as why Apple is so restrictive its a bit of a long story. It has to do with the fact that Apple was the first to add a graphical user interface to Mac OS, and Apple became a recognized leader when it came to graphics and visual effects. Microsoft tried to catch up in the mid 90's with Windows 95, which was an obvious attempt to capture some of Apple's glory, but to this day Apple has a reputation for being the better OS for graphics designers, the film industry, and a leader in graphical user interfaces in general. Its for that reason we see both Windows and Linux heading towards a more Apple look and feel. Ubuntu has the new Unity desktop and Windows 8 has the Metro screen which are obvious attempts to copy Apple's own graphical user interface and support more touch screen devices. Its for this reason Apple guards its position as a leader in the graphical user interface field, and require that anyone who develops for their OS meet certain standards for seamless integration between apps and OS. For instance, if you have a program launcher with just text and no flashy graphical icon forget it pal Apple will reject your app because they expect program launchers to have a certain look and feel regardless if you can see it or not. If they let Liam or anyone else do what they want the over all visual experience, the user interface, will suffer because they chose not to follow Apple's design specifications. Windows on the other hand has standards, but it always has been understood that a developer was free to do what he or she wanted with the tools. Microsoft felt that being more open with the user interface, by not restricting users, that more developers would be willing to develop apps for their OS. Which has obviously paid off for Microsoft in the long run, but most third-party developers do attempt to stick to Microsoft's standards anyway unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. As for Android vs iPhone we are comparing apples and oranges. Google has adopted a more open interface, and anyone who knows a bit of Java is free to write an app for Android. All the same there are standards one can choose to follow, but aren't forced to use them. With iPhone everything is proprietary right down to the language, SDK, and tools used to write the app so a developer has less say so. In short, its just company policy and it isn't up to us developers to make the rules like it or not. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 2:12 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: Hi all, I would just like to pose a few questions here. Do sighted people even buy audio games from the ap store? I can see how they might look at them out of curiosity, but I've known very few sighted people who gave a thought to audio games (or knew they existed, for that matter) for Windows, so why should this change just because it's an Apple product? Besides, even if they did download the game, how many of them are going to have the patience to actually play using only their ears? And, speaking of Windows, most of this thread has been centered around the standards developers must meet for Apple and Playstation. Why is Windows so different? Microsoft gave people the freedom to choose between many different programming languages and versions of its OS. Why then should Apple be any different? Finally, what's the difference between developing games for the Android and games for the IPhone? Does Google impose such strict standards of quality as well? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Ah, I see. That makes sense now. I wonder, though, why Liam would choose to develop a game for such a restrictive market, when he could have held his captive audience of Windows gamers? I understand that times are changing, and Apple is at the forefront of most people's minds, both blind and sighted, but it doesn't make sense to me that he would abandon one group of gamers for another. I know most people do have IPhones these days anyway, so I suppose it's not a complete abandonment. As far as putting graphics in the interface goes, I don't think that would be too much to ask of him. However, this argument about whether or not sighted people freak out at a blank screen seems silly to me. If a blind person chooses to turn the screen off, and a sighted friend picks it up, won't they be looking at a black screen? You don't see them freaking out about that. Of course, one would hope that if it was a friend or family member who picked up the device, they would know and understand why. But if that option exists anyway, the issue of a black screen being possible, even if it is application specific, doesn't seem like such a big deal. On 5/21/12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To begin with I doubt many sighted people do take the time or energy to look at perspective audio games. As someone who was sighted for many years I know I wouldn't have been interested in a game that didn't even have some basic graphics for game play. That's because for a sighted person their entire way of life is centered around visual feedback, and telling them they have to do this or that by sound alone is going to be a major turn off. They neither have the practice or skill to do that, because its outside their experience. Therefore some minimal graphics and animation would be required to interest them in an audio game. As far as why Apple is so restrictive its a bit of a long story. It has to do with the fact that Apple was the first to add a graphical user interface to Mac OS, and Apple became a recognized leader when it came to graphics and visual effects. Microsoft tried to catch up in the mid 90's with Windows 95, which was an obvious attempt to capture some of Apple's glory, but to this day Apple has a reputation for being the better OS for graphics designers, the film industry, and a leader in graphical user interfaces in general. Its for that reason we see both Windows and Linux heading towards a more Apple look and feel. Ubuntu has the new Unity desktop and Windows 8 has the Metro screen which are obvious attempts to copy Apple's own graphical user interface and support more touch screen devices. Its for this reason Apple guards its position as a leader in the graphical user interface field, and require that anyone who develops for their OS meet certain standards for seamless integration between apps and OS. For instance, if you have a program launcher with just text and no flashy graphical icon forget it pal Apple will reject your app because they expect program launchers to have a certain look and feel regardless if you can see it or not. If they let Liam or anyone else do what they want the over all visual experience, the user interface, will suffer because they chose not to follow Apple's design specifications. Windows on the other hand has standards, but it always has been understood that a developer was free to do what he or she wanted with the tools. Microsoft felt that being more open with the user interface, by not restricting users, that more developers would be willing to develop apps for their OS. Which has obviously paid off for Microsoft in the long run, but most third-party developers do attempt to stick to Microsoft's standards anyway unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. As for Android vs iPhone we are comparing apples and oranges. Google has adopted a more open interface, and anyone who knows a bit of Java is free to write an app for Android. All the same there are standards one can choose to follow, but aren't forced to use them. With iPhone everything is proprietary right down to the language, SDK, and tools used to write the app so a developer has less say so. In short, its just company policy and it isn't up to us developers to make the rules like it or not. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 2:12 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: Hi all, I would just like to pose a few questions here. Do sighted people even buy audio games from the ap store? I can see how they might look at them out of curiosity, but I've known very few sighted people who gave a thought to audio games (or knew they existed, for that matter) for Windows, so why should this change just because it's an Apple product? Besides, even if they did download the game, how many of them are going to have the patience to actually play using only their ears? And, speaking of Windows, most of this thread has been centered around the standards developers must meet for
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
I can't figure out why blind people don't think there should be at least a little feedback, even if it doesn't aid in the playing of the game, for the sighted gamer. Using that logic, there should be no sound for any game designed for a deaf gamer. Of course, if there were sound, maybe a blind player could play the game, too? But without any sound, the speaker must be broken, right? Same idea. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Ryan, Yes, I am certainly blind. However, I wasn't blind my entire life so perhaps that makes the difference. I know how sighted people think, and I know how blind people think. So I am in a position to understand both sides of the argument. However, the problem is that a sighted person knows no more about what it is like to be blind than a blind person knows what its like to see so often those people argue from a position of ignorance of the other party's perspective. In a situation like this one I get frustrated with the blind who say adding icons, graphics, etc to a game is unnecessary. Of course its unnecessary for a blind player, but since they don't understand how much a sighted person depends on sight they blithely make statements like they can learn to play without graphics. While that may be technically true the fact of the matter is most sighted people will be disinterested in the game if there aren't any graphics, and even if they do go as far to play a game by sound they would still want something to look at besides a black screen. The sooner blind people recognize this the sooner we'll be able to at least open up dialog between blind game developers and sighted game developers on how we can bridge the needs of blind and sighted users at the same time. However, instead of attempting to meet the needs of both blind and sighted gamers some blind people want to argue the point and force a sighted person to play our games as we do, and I'm afraid to say that will never happen unless we are willing to meet them half way. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 7:22 AM, Ryan Strunk wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here. Aren't you blind, too, Tom? Thanks, Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Desiree, Perhaps the term freak out is over stating the case. Its more a matter of if a person downloads a game or any other application they expect to see something appear on the screen. If they double tap the launcher expecting some graphics, text, buttons, or whatever and end up getting a totally blank screen they are bound to assume the worst. Either their is something wrong with the program, perhaps something wrong with their phone, and will call Apple's support to find out why nothing is appearing on screen. The absolutely last thought they will have is this was made for blind gamers so Liam intentionally left the window blank. That just wouldn't occur to a sighted person unless they are told that in advance. To give you a real world example here let me tell you about a tech support question I had some years ago. At the time I was developing Montezuma's Revenge and it was in the early beta stages. A sighted person stumbled upon my website, downloaded the game, and e-mailed our support address saying their was something wrong with the graphics in the game. He said he could here the sounds and music, but the screen appeared totally black Even though I said on the website that it was an audio game, it was for the visually impaired, etc he still assumed something was wrong when no graphics appeared. I wrote back to him and basically repeted the information that was on the website that I was developing the game for blind gamers, that it was audio only, and that there were no graphics in the game. I then mentioned to him that there was a similar project being developed on the Retro Remakes website for sighted users, and he might want to try that version instead. You want to know his reaction? He wrote back, and I could tell by the tone of his message he was a bit irritated. He told me that I had waisted his time with a piece of garbage, that I should have stated there were no graphics in the game on the website, and that it wasn't worth $35.00 USD without graphics. The point I want to make here is even if Liam or anyone else says this or that game is an audio game, is for the visually impaired, etc there will always be someone out there who won't understand what that means and will purchase the game from the app store assuming that there will be graphics in it even though the description states this game was developed for the blind. Having it start with a blank screen is the last thing they'll expect unless Apple or Liam stress the fact there are no graphics. As for Liam's choice to develop games and apps for a restrictive operating system like iOS there are perfectly good reasons why he might choose to do so. First, as Cara pointed out a couple of weeks ago the number of blind iPhone users is in the thousands, and if a game developer wants to make money at audio games that's a much larger market today than Windows PCs. Second, is convenience. Its much easier to put your iPhone in your backpack, pocket, etc and take your phone with you than say a netbook or full sized laptop.Its so small and portible a person can take it with them while they ride to the store in a car, ride to and from work on the bus, use it in a subway train, or use it on a long flight between airports. Basically, its more practical to play games on a person's iPhone than their PC, because its more portable. Finally, personal choice. If a developer like Liam uses their iPhone a lot more than their Windows PC it would make sense he'd want to spend his time developing games for that device than the others. I have similar motivation with Linux based apps. For example, a lot of people know once I finish developing Raceway and Tomb Hunter I'm going to focus more time and energy on developing games for Linux. Its not because there is more money in it, not because there is a small but growing comunity of Linux users, but because I use Linux much more than I do Windows and I personally have a vested interest in games being produced for that OS. I figure Liam's decision is similar. He may be doing it for no other reason than he has a personal vested interest in developing more games for his iPhone because he uses it a lot more than his Windows computer back home. Make sense? Cheers! On 5/21/2012 11:09 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: Ah, I see. That makes sense now. I wonder, though, why Liam would choose to develop a game for such a restrictive market, when he could have held his captive audience of Windows gamers? I understand that times are changing, and Apple is at the forefront of most people's minds, both blind and sighted, but it doesn't make sense to me that he would abandon one group of gamers for another. I know most people do have IPhones these days anyway, so I suppose it's not a complete abandonment. As far as putting graphics in the interface goes, I don't think that would be too much to ask of him. However, this argument about whether or not sighted
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Not really relevant to this discussion either, but, guys like my sighted brother who focus on sound mixing, also prefer apple mac for their work environment - but that's again, my take on apple operating systems - they're good for focusing on certain aspects of operation, but, less so for a somewhat wider range of activities. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Desiree, To begin with I doubt many sighted people do take the time or energy to look at perspective audio games. As someone who was sighted for many years I know I wouldn't have been interested in a game that didn't even have some basic graphics for game play. That's because for a sighted person their entire way of life is centered around visual feedback, and telling them they have to do this or that by sound alone is going to be a major turn off. They neither have the practice or skill to do that, because its outside their experience. Therefore some minimal graphics and animation would be required to interest them in an audio game. As far as why Apple is so restrictive its a bit of a long story. It has to do with the fact that Apple was the first to add a graphical user interface to Mac OS, and Apple became a recognized leader when it came to graphics and visual effects. Microsoft tried to catch up in the mid 90's with Windows 95, which was an obvious attempt to capture some of Apple's glory, but to this day Apple has a reputation for being the better OS for graphics designers, the film industry, and a leader in graphical user interfaces in general. Its for that reason we see both Windows and Linux heading towards a more Apple look and feel. Ubuntu has the new Unity desktop and Windows 8 has the Metro screen which are obvious attempts to copy Apple's own graphical user interface and support more touch screen devices. Its for this reason Apple guards its position as a leader in the graphical user interface field, and require that anyone who develops for their OS meet certain standards for seamless integration between apps and OS. For instance, if you have a program launcher with just text and no flashy graphical icon forget it pal Apple will reject your app because they expect program launchers to have a certain look and feel regardless if you can see it or not. If they let Liam or anyone else do what they want the over all visual experience, the user interface, will suffer because they chose not to follow Apple's design specifications. Windows on the other hand has standards, but it always has been understood that a developer was free to do what he or she wanted with the tools. Microsoft felt that being more open with the user interface, by not restricting users, that more developers would be willing to develop apps for their OS. Which has obviously paid off for Microsoft in the long run, but most third-party developers do attempt to stick to Microsoft's standards anyway unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. As for Android vs iPhone we are comparing apples and oranges. Google has adopted a more open interface, and anyone who knows a bit of Java is free to write an app for Android. All the same there are standards one can choose to follow, but aren't forced to use them. With iPhone everything is proprietary right down to the language, SDK, and tools used to write the app so a developer has less say so. In short, its just company policy and it isn't up to us developers to make the rules like it or not. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 2:12 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: Hi all, I would just like to pose a few questions here. Do sighted people even buy audio games from the ap store? I can see how they might look at them out of curiosity, but I've known very few sighted people who gave a thought to audio games (or knew they existed, for that matter) for Windows, so why should this change just because it's an Apple product? Besides, even if they did download the game, how many of them are going to have the patience to actually play using only their ears? And, speaking of Windows, most of this thread has been centered around the standards developers must meet for Apple and Playstation. Why is Windows so different? Microsoft gave people the freedom to choose between many different programming languages and versions of its OS. Why then should Apple be any different? Finally, what's the difference between developing games for the Android and games for the IPhone? Does Google impose such strict standards of quality as well? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Charles, Yes, precisely. that's one of the things I'm still trying to figure out myself. It seems like the argument being made by some blind list members is the opinion they don't need graphics so nobody else does either. That's just being self-centered and is absolutely irrational thinking. If that were the case then we could say Richard De Steno's games don't need sounds either. A deaf-blind gamer only needs to read the text, he can't hear sounds, so we don't need sounds either. So let's get rid of all of the sounds and just use text. That would be totally ridiculous from a blind gamers point of view, because he or she can hear the sounds even if a deaf-blind gamer can't. Same principle applies to having some graphics in audio games for sighted players. Weather we can use them or not isn't the point. The entire point here is to make said games as playable to as many people as possible by adding audio for blind gamers, graphics for sighted players, text for a deaf-blind gamer, etc if possible. In that way everyone has access to the same app but through a different method. Cheers! On 5/21/2012 11:44 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: I can't figure out why blind people don't think there should be at least a little feedback, even if it doesn't aid in the playing of the game, for the sighted gamer. Using that logic, there should be no sound for any game designed for a deaf gamer. Of course, if there were sound, maybe a blind player could play the game, too? But without any sound, the speaker must be broken, right? Same idea. --- --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hmmm, as I said on audiogames.net, methinks apple need to considder the meaning of audio game a bit more carefully. I'm not sure if this is malicious disregard or just shear stupidity. After all, I'd bet they ever reject photo management or picture tweaking programs for not having sound? :D. A very silly atitude for a company who include accessibility into their os by default. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
i guess they wanted sighted people to have some graphics, remember how will sighted people be able to use just their ears? perish the thought On 20 May 2012, at 10:29, dark wrote: Hmmm, as I said on audiogames.net, methinks apple need to considder the meaning of audio game a bit more carefully. I'm not sure if this is malicious disregard or just shear stupidity. After all, I'd bet they ever reject photo management or picture tweaking programs for not having sound? :D. A very silly atitude for a company who include accessibility into their os by default. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Well, what I can't understand is there are other games that don't have any graphic. Games like Aurifi and Papasangre and Blindmaze and other games don't have graphics but apple has allow them to get in the app store. Something else that I wonder is how did De Steno Games get accepted but Audio Archery is getting decline? I think that after Steve Jobs had died the company has started to go back to the way it was when he had left apple in the past. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
papa sangre does On 20 May 2012, at 11:25, michael barnes wrote: Well, what I can't understand is there are other games that don't have any graphic. Games like Aurifi and Papasangre and Blindmaze and other games don't have graphics but apple has allow them to get in the app store. Something else that I wonder is how did De Steno Games get accepted but Audio Archery is getting decline? I think that after Steve Jobs had died the company has started to go back to the way it was when he had left apple in the past. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Fraid you're rong there michael. P s has graphics - a left foot and a firhg foot, and a wheel. Not sure about aurifi but I can ask. If destino games did get excepted and a a didn't its probably because the destino games have text and sound in them as well. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of michael barnes Sent: 20 May 2012 11:26 To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Well, what I can't understand is there are other games that don't have any graphic. Games like Aurifi and Papasangre and Blindmaze and other games don't have graphics but apple has allow them to get in the app store. Something else that I wonder is how did De Steno Games get accepted but Audio Archery is getting decline? I think that after Steve Jobs had died the company has started to go back to the way it was when he had left apple in the past. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5010 - Release Date: 05/19/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Michael, According to L-works, Audio Archery has nothing on the screen. I suspect those other games have labeled buttons and a title in text on the screen. I don't think Apple is asking L-works to fully animate the game. Phil - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Well, what I can't understand is there are other games that don't have any graphic. Games like Aurifi and Papasangre and Blindmaze and other games don't have graphics but apple has allow them to get in the app store. Something else that I wonder is how did De Steno Games get accepted but Audio Archery is getting decline? I think that after Steve Jobs had died the company has started to go back to the way it was when he had left apple in the past. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5009 - Release Date: 05/19/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
There's nothing stupid about it. When you play a game with 0 graphics, 0 background, 0 anything, it looks like your phone is turned off. So some sighted person will tap the archery icon, get this black background, and immediately freak out, sending numerous emails and complaints to Apple in the process. They're not asking Liam to animate the game. They just want some kind of picture in the background so people know the app is working properly. As someone already pointed out, even Papa Sangre has icons. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 4:30 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hmmm, as I said on audiogames.net, methinks apple need to considder the meaning of audio game a bit more carefully. I'm not sure if this is malicious disregard or just shear stupidity. After all, I'd bet they ever reject photo management or picture tweaking programs for not having sound? :D. A very silly atitude for a company who include accessibility into their os by default. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Well since that is the case, why don't he just put the name of the game on the screen? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
As for upgrading your OS, I have never had to pay for any upgrades of Apple iTunes, which is how I transfer info from my Windows PC to my iPhone, and it was free to begin with. As for the games for the blind, you are way off base. What Apple wants is some kind of background, icons, or both, so that people with eyesight know that the app is working. A totally blank screen would possibly indicate that either the app or the phone is not working. As for how much control Apple has, I think it is good that they do have this control, because it makes things secure and, hopefully, virus free, just to name one thing among several. Think before you wine. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. This is why I stear clear of apple products. Even though they make a nice phone and operating system, it's not worth it. They have too much control over things that a normal user should be allowed to choose about. What do they know about accessible games anyway? You can't even change the battery of your phone or upgrade your computer's hardware without violating their lisence agreement. You can't program for IOS without using their propriotary tools that cost a lot of money and then some know it all tech at the app store decides that an audio game needs graphics. On 2012/05/20 02:31 AM, Phil Vlasak wrote: Recent Tweets from L-Works. Audio Archery got rejected. Apple did not like the empty screen. also need icons. I gave the artist a couple ideas. he's gonna send me some drags in a couple days waiting on Icons still. as soon as one gets created I will resubmit app. So never fear. http://twitter.com/#!/lworksgames --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
I'm not certain. You'd have to ask Liam that question. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of michael barnes Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:45 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Well since that is the case, why don't he just put the name of the game on the screen? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Charles, Two points here. First, one reason the community at large would like other app store options is because of some of the random things Apple refuses in the apps it allows to be posted. For example, someone made an app that allowed you to put an icon on your home screen to toggle Bluetooth on and off. Apple later decided it didn't want consumers to be able to do that anymore, perhaps because they'll be adding that functionality in a later version, so the app was pulled from the store. Now people can't toggle Bluetooth from the home screen anymore. It's why so many people choose to jailbreak their iPhones. They want the ability to install apps that are outside of Apple's rather stringent guidelines. It's the same reason people want smaller government. They want the freedom to do what they will with the device they paid for. Second, as to the post below yours, I see some mistaken assumptions about Apple, and I see some definite opinions expressed by someone who isn't as into Apple products as you or I, but I'm having trouble finding the whining you accuse him of. Can you please help me find said whining so I can also indignantly tell him to stop doing it? Thanks, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:55 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. As for upgrading your OS, I have never had to pay for any upgrades of Apple iTunes, which is how I transfer info from my Windows PC to my iPhone, and it was free to begin with. As for the games for the blind, you are way off base. What Apple wants is some kind of background, icons, or both, so that people with eyesight know that the app is working. A totally blank screen would possibly indicate that either the app or the phone is not working. As for how much control Apple has, I think it is good that they do have this control, because it makes things secure and, hopefully, virus free, just to name one thing among several. Think before you wine. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. This is why I stear clear of apple products. Even though they make a nice phone and operating system, it's not worth it. They have too much control over things that a normal user should be allowed to choose about. What do they know about accessible games anyway? You can't even change the battery of your phone or upgrade your computer's hardware without violating their lisence agreement. You can't program for IOS without using their propriotary tools that cost a lot of money and then some know it all tech at the app store decides that an audio game needs graphics. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
I'm afraid I disagree Ryan, sinse the entire point of an audio game is that the audio is still laying, so no reason for sighted people to freak. By the same logic, shouldn't all those soundless aps have sound just in case someone freaked out because they thought their speakers were bust? And anyway, don't Iphones have a way to alt tab to the desktop or nearest equivolent? while I freely confess I know little about the interface, I'd be very shocked if once something was running you couldn't go back to your basic phone setup or pull up a taskbar, just in case it crashed, in which case, no freakout. As I said, unless Apple are requiring the same requirements from visual only programs that have no sound, which planely they are not doing, this strikes me simply as unrealistic standard applied to a medium they weren't meant to be applied to. Beware the Grue! dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
They have to meet certain requirements for the majority of users. Some visual indicator, regardless of what it is, is required. To me, this makes sense. If someone who is sighted uses my iPhone, they will know that the phone is working during the running of the app. And if it does not interfere with my using of the app or it's performance, I have no problem with it. You can get back to a home screen to see if the phone is working, but should you have to? And to require sound for an app that doesn't need sound doesn't make sense to me, because of the same reason given above. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. I'm afraid I disagree Ryan, sinse the entire point of an audio game is that the audio is still laying, so no reason for sighted people to freak. By the same logic, shouldn't all those soundless aps have sound just in case someone freaked out because they thought their speakers were bust? And anyway, don't Iphones have a way to alt tab to the desktop or nearest equivolent? while I freely confess I know little about the interface, I'd be very shocked if once something was running you couldn't go back to your basic phone setup or pull up a taskbar, just in case it crashed, in which case, no freakout. As I said, unless Apple are requiring the same requirements from visual only programs that have no sound, which planely they are not doing, this strikes me simply as unrealistic standard applied to a medium they weren't meant to be applied to. Beware the Grue! dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Just as most things today exist for a world that takes in 90% of its environment through sight, the iPhone is no different. That's why you don't need audio feedback for visual apps. You can tell just by looking at the screen that things are working. In fact, many apps lose their sound when the iPhone's mute switch has been flipped, whereas at no time is the screen blank unless the phone is off or a blind user turns on the screen curtain. I see where you're coming from, and to you and I it makes sense, but Apple is catering to a pretty low denominator--the same type of people who can't find the button to make the cup holder pop out the front of their computer again. Like it or not, it's just a picture, and that won't be hard to implement. At least they're not making Liam put moving graphics into the game. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 3:07 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. I'm afraid I disagree Ryan, sinse the entire point of an audio game is that the audio is still laying, so no reason for sighted people to freak. By the same logic, shouldn't all those soundless aps have sound just in case someone freaked out because they thought their speakers were bust? And anyway, don't Iphones have a way to alt tab to the desktop or nearest equivolent? while I freely confess I know little about the interface, I'd be very shocked if once something was running you couldn't go back to your basic phone setup or pull up a taskbar, just in case it crashed, in which case, no freakout. As I said, unless Apple are requiring the same requirements from visual only programs that have no sound, which planely they are not doing, this strikes me simply as unrealistic standard applied to a medium they weren't meant to be applied to. Beware the Grue! dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Good time to move to Android. I am a blind Android user and i love it. Being a growing platform, we android users also would like to have some audiogames. Cheers Jorge Gonçalves jopo...@hotmail.com Skype: joport3 Twitter: www.twitter.com/goncalvesjorge Webpage: www.jorgegoncalves.com On 5/21/2012 6:12 AM, Willem Venter wrote: This is why I stear clear of apple products. Even though they make a nice phone and operating system, it's not worth it. They have too much control over things that a normal user should be allowed to choose about. What do they know about accessible games anyway? You can't even change the battery of your phone or upgrade your computer's hardware without violating their lisence agreement. You can't program for IOS without using their propriotary tools that cost a lot of money and then some know it all tech at the app store decides that an audio game needs graphics. On 2012/05/20 02:31 AM, Phil Vlasak wrote: Recent Tweets from L-Works. Audio Archery got rejected. Apple did not like the empty screen. also need icons. I gave the artist a couple ideas. he's gonna send me some drags in a couple days waiting on Icons still. as soon as one gets created I will resubmit app. So never fear. http://twitter.com/#!/lworksgames --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Charlese. I'm afraid I just do not agree on the basis that an audio game does not output graphically. It is not a question of who uses the ap, so much as the medium in which it outputs. If a photo editing program outputs images, no sound is needed for the control or correct running of such a program. Most audio software does have visual controls, but this is a matter of the interfaced use used to control such a program, not the ouput, if it were, apple would reffuse any audio playing program that did not have something like the video show in winamp to output visual effects during playback of the music. An audio game however is! controled, and output entirely in audio, just as a photo editing program is output and controled entirely in images. If you are not going to demand extra output for the one, why for the other? i do not doubt that your reason, that the software must! appeal to a sighted user and Apple considders only visual presentation is correct, but to my mind this is eronius thinking when it comes to audio games. As someone with a small degree of vision who plays both audio, and graphical games (albeit most are old, or at least in retro style), I do believe that just as purely text based games still have a place and a unique style of their own, so do audio games. To take an example, in swamp, the fact that it's the surface you walk on and the loudness of your movements which attracts the zombies, but by the same tocan that you yourself must avoid zombies by ear gives a very unique twist to the game, sinse you really need to watch where you walk, and what weapons you use. These are not features used in a graphical game, sinse obviously even if some game or other did feature blind zombies that navigated by sound (though I haven't heard of any that has), your character would still! by virtue of the graphics have an advantage, being able to for instance see your way to walk around patches of noisey gravel. In swamp however, the fact that you and the zombies are on a more equal footing, neither having the advantage of full overview gives a really unique feeling to the game that you wouldn't get in something fully graphical. So, swamp is unique because! it is an audio game, and as I believe has been said previously, deserves recognition not merely in it's status of being accessible, but in it's status of being audio, just as a fine radio drama deserves recognition for being a radio drama, and neither a book nor a film. it is however this I think apple are missing by their insistance on flashy graphics, sinse they are considdering not what an audio game is! but only how it will appeal to their customers and sell more phones. Rather than saying we are a company who support all! forms of art they are saying we are a company who insist! things look and feel a certain way, even when this is of no relevance to the things themselves it'd be like insisting that every radio drama comes with pictures of all the characters, or that every novel be written as a comic with the story told in pictures as well as words. Of course, apple being the huge, multinational corporation that just wants more ticks on it's prophit sheet, none of this makes a difference even if we told it to them, sinse a corporation that cares is something of a contradiction in terms. Just because we are forced to accept something however by virtue of Apples control on things doesn't make it right, which is really my point. yes, Liam and other audio game devs will! have to have graphics for their games in order that they have the correct, flashy look apple wants, this however doesn't mean they should! just as even though capcom, nintendo etc don't give a flying monkey's rear for game access doesn't mean that game access is unimportant. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
As I said on audiogames.net, I think Liam should put in a picture with a message that says this is an audio game, meaning it has no graphics and sound, and this picture serves no purpose at all and is a waste of space We'd see how they like them! apples! :d. of course, apple would doubltess reject this, but it's an amusing thought none the less. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
On the whining, it might have sounded that way by the way it was punctuated, and my screen reader didn't interpret it correctly. If this was the case, I was wrong based on the info to my ears. (grin) Your other point was good. Thanks. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Charles, Two points here. First, one reason the community at large would like other app store options is because of some of the random things Apple refuses in the apps it allows to be posted. For example, someone made an app that allowed you to put an icon on your home screen to toggle Bluetooth on and off. Apple later decided it didn't want consumers to be able to do that anymore, perhaps because they'll be adding that functionality in a later version, so the app was pulled from the store. Now people can't toggle Bluetooth from the home screen anymore. It's why so many people choose to jailbreak their iPhones. They want the ability to install apps that are outside of Apple's rather stringent guidelines. It's the same reason people want smaller government. They want the freedom to do what they will with the device they paid for. Second, as to the post below yours, I see some mistaken assumptions about Apple, and I see some definite opinions expressed by someone who isn't as into Apple products as you or I, but I'm having trouble finding the whining you accuse him of. Can you please help me find said whining so I can also indignantly tell him to stop doing it? Thanks, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:55 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. As for upgrading your OS, I have never had to pay for any upgrades of Apple iTunes, which is how I transfer info from my Windows PC to my iPhone, and it was free to begin with. As for the games for the blind, you are way off base. What Apple wants is some kind of background, icons, or both, so that people with eyesight know that the app is working. A totally blank screen would possibly indicate that either the app or the phone is not working. As for how much control Apple has, I think it is good that they do have this control, because it makes things secure and, hopefully, virus free, just to name one thing among several. Think before you wine. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. This is why I stear clear of apple products. Even though they make a nice phone and operating system, it's not worth it. They have too much control over things that a normal user should be allowed to choose about. What do they know about accessible games anyway? You can't even change the battery of your phone or upgrade your computer's hardware without violating their lisence agreement. You can't program for IOS without using their propriotary tools that cost a lot of money and then some know it all tech at the app store decides that an audio game needs graphics. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
I think the overarching point here is not Apple and its stance on graphics, but rather the novelty of audio games. Think how much hubbub arises when some mainstream developer decides to create an audio adventure--Papa Sangre, Zombies! Run!, Aurify, etc. The reason audio-only programs aren't seen as just another form of program is because of their rarity. There are half a million apps in the app store, and I would guess than less than 100 are audio only programs. If we say there are exactly 500,000 apps, and 100 are audio only, we're looking at 0.02% of all apps. Apple isn't looking at profit, but rather wants to avoid the loss it would accrue from spending customer service time telling people No. Your phone isn't broken. It's an audio-only program. I think your idea of a picture that says audio only program is a good one, and it would probably work. It's not a matter of flashiness, but rather understandability for the sighted user who hasn't bought the 0.02% of audio-only apps. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 4:53 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Charlese. I'm afraid I just do not agree on the basis that an audio game does not output graphically. It is not a question of who uses the ap, so much as the medium in which it outputs. If a photo editing program outputs images, no sound is needed for the control or correct running of such a program. Most audio software does have visual controls, but this is a matter of the interfaced use used to control such a program, not the ouput, if it were, apple would reffuse any audio playing program that did not have something like the video show in winamp to output visual effects during playback of the music. An audio game however is! controled, and output entirely in audio, just as a photo editing program is output and controled entirely in images. If you are not going to demand extra output for the one, why for the other? i do not doubt that your reason, that the software must! appeal to a sighted user and Apple considders only visual presentation is correct, but to my mind this is eronius thinking when it comes to audio games. As someone with a small degree of vision who plays both audio, and graphical games (albeit most are old, or at least in retro style), I do believe that just as purely text based games still have a place and a unique style of their own, so do audio games. To take an example, in swamp, the fact that it's the surface you walk on and the loudness of your movements which attracts the zombies, but by the same tocan that you yourself must avoid zombies by ear gives a very unique twist to the game, sinse you really need to watch where you walk, and what weapons you use. These are not features used in a graphical game, sinse obviously even if some game or other did feature blind zombies that navigated by sound (though I haven't heard of any that has), your character would still! by virtue of the graphics have an advantage, being able to for instance see your way to walk around patches of noisey gravel. In swamp however, the fact that you and the zombies are on a more equal footing, neither having the advantage of full overview gives a really unique feeling to the game that you wouldn't get in something fully graphical. So, swamp is unique because! it is an audio game, and as I believe has been said previously, deserves recognition not merely in it's status of being accessible, but in it's status of being audio, just as a fine radio drama deserves recognition for being a radio drama, and neither a book nor a film. it is however this I think apple are missing by their insistance on flashy graphics, sinse they are considdering not what an audio game is! but only how it will appeal to their customers and sell more phones. Rather than saying we are a company who support all! forms of art they are saying we are a company who insist! things look and feel a certain way, even when this is of no relevance to the things themselves it'd be like insisting that every radio drama comes with pictures of all the characters, or that every novel be written as a comic with the story told in pictures as well as words. Of course, apple being the huge, multinational corporation that just wants more ticks on it's prophit sheet, none of this makes a difference even if we told it to them, sinse a corporation that cares is something of a contradiction in terms. Just because we are forced to accept something however by virtue of Apples control on things doesn't make it right, which is really my point. yes, Liam and other audio game devs will! have to have graphics for their games in order that they have the correct, flashy look apple wants, this however doesn't mean they should! just as even though capcom, nintendo etc don't give a flying monkey's rear for game access doesn't mean that game access
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Folks, I can imagine the perfect graphic for Audio Archery. The side view of Robin Hood pulling back the string of his bow while wearing dark glasses and headphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi, what's Audio Archery? Nicole Thompson-Andrews Pen name Mellissa Green Budding novelist Emerging poet Tweet me @greenNovelist - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Folks, I can imagine the perfect graphic for Audio Archery. The side view of Robin Hood pulling back the string of his bow while wearing dark glasses and headphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi, Actually papasangre has a wheel at the top that you can use to turn with which is visible, and if memory serves a logo. aurifi also has something on the screen that I would guess is a logo. Cheers, -Michael. -Original Message- From: michael barnes Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 5:25 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Well, what I can't understand is there are other games that don't have any graphic. Games like Aurifi and Papasangre and Blindmaze and other games don't have graphics but apple has allow them to get in the app store. Something else that I wonder is how did De Steno Games get accepted but Audio Archery is getting decline? I think that after Steve Jobs had died the company has started to go back to the way it was when he had left apple in the past. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Dark, Well, I think there is more to it than that. Companies have set standards for applications and often times companies like Apple really want prospective developers to meet a specific look and feel. Since iOS is a graphical operating system they expect program launchers to have graphical icons that visually remind their users of what application they are launching. Many sighted developers would regard the lack of graphical icons etc very unprofessional. I've been told this from friends etc as well. For example, I remember showing a friend Mysteries of the Ancients when it was in the early stages. Of course, this person understood I was developing an audio game. However, he told me rather than just drawing a black screen it would look better if I added a splash screen of some kind with an image of a Greek temple with the logo Mysteries of the Ancients in the center. He also mentioned rather than just having icons with text labels like Read Manual, License Agreement, Play Game, whatever I should purchase some graphical icons of of a little scroll for the manual, perhaps a stone tablet for a license agreement, a temple for the main program launcher, etc. He said it would look more professional that way. So I took his advice and implemented most of his suggestions. I think what Apple is doing is they are attempting to filter out anything and everything that appears to be created by an amateur developer the same way Microsoft approves games for the XBox or Sony approves games for the Playstation III. Its a way to insure every game and application meets their stipulations and design requirements. Therefore if Liam doesn't have graphical looking icons etc its going to look cheaply made to a sighted developer, and we can't blame them for disqualifying a game on that basis. After all, every other developer has to meet the same requirements too. On 5/20/2012 5:29 AM, dark wrote: Hmmm, as I said on audiogames.net, methinks apple need to considder the meaning of audio game a bit more carefully. I'm not sure if this is malicious disregard or just shear stupidity. After all, I'd bet they ever reject photo management or picture tweaking programs for not having sound? :D. A very silly atitude for a company who include accessibility into their os by default. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Will, Yes, but its not just that. Large companies like smart phone developers as well as developers of game consoles have a strict set of standards each and every developer must meet to qualify. Its not so much that Liam is developing an audio game its the fact he seems to have ignored some very basic visual eye candy such as graphical icons for the program launchers which is a universal standard no matter what OS you are running. Audio game developers, for whatever reason, seem to regard purchasing a library of icons etc as superfluous. Even though the lack of said graphical icons make their application look cheap and amateurish to a sighted user. Like it or not, but we live in a sighted world and if we want to target devices like the iPhone we will have to get use to the fact some limited graphics maybe required. On 5/20/2012 5:45 AM, william lomas wrote: i guess they wanted sighted people to have some graphics, remember how will sighted people be able to use just their ears? perish the thought --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Michael, Well, the Desteno games is a different situation. All of Richard's games have text on the screen making them text games. So no graphics are required. At most the games needed a simple icon for the program launcher, but they passed because they were text games. Audio Archery is a different case because it creates a blank screen, and requires a person to play audio only. Not sure about the other games, but Apple seems to be looking for some minimum graphics now for audio games of that sort. On 5/20/2012 6:25 AM, michael barnes wrote: Well, what I can't understand is there are other games that don't have any graphic. Games like Aurifi and Papasangre and Blindmaze and other games don't have graphics but apple has allow them to get in the app store. Something else that I wonder is how did De Steno Games get accepted but Audio Archery is getting decline? I think that after Steve Jobs had died the company has started to go back to the way it was when he had left apple in the past. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Phil, Correct. Basically, it doesn't sound like Apple is asking Liam to fully animate the game, but they do require some graphical icons, and are requesting that he add some sort of graphical splashscreen with a picture and some text rather than a blank screen. That's a perfectly reasonable request given that a totally blank screen with no graphics or text is pretty ugly visually speaking, and I guess from their point of view is very unprofessional looking. They are just asking that Liam add some minimum graphics when the window is displayed rather than a totally blank screen which many sighted users could mistake as something wrong with the program and/or their phone. Most sighted people expect to see something other than a black screen. :D On 5/20/2012 7:44 AM, Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Michael, According to L-works, Audio Archery has nothing on the screen. I suspect those other games have labeled buttons and a title in text on the screen. I don't think Apple is asking L-works to fully animate the game. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Ryan, Exactly. I think some blind game developers often forget that if they display a totally blank window a sighted user will assume their is something wrong with their phone, the software, etc and freque out immediately assuming there is something wrong because they are not use to seeing this behavior. Something simple like a splash screen with the words Audio Archery in large print would at least indicate to them that the app is working correctly and their phone isn't powered off or something. :D On 5/20/2012 9:30 AM, Ryan Strunk wrote: There's nothing stupid about it. When you play a game with 0 graphics, 0 background, 0 anything, it looks like your phone is turned off. So some sighted person will tap the archery icon, get this black background, and immediately freak out, sending numerous emails and complaints to Apple in the process. They're not asking Liam to animate the game. They just want some kind of picture in the background so people know the app is working properly. As someone already pointed out, even Papa Sangre has icons. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hey, Thomas. The De Steno Games app yes it does have some text but sighted people can't see it. All they see is white dots, which in the update of the app we are hoping to fix this and to improve the app for all players blind and sighted. I have alot of people that are sighted that would love to play with the app but they would like to be able to play without the screen reader. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
They should have to play it just as we do; by sound only. There should be no target to aim at, no moving arrow, or any visual indication as to when to shoot or where to aim. If any visuals should be added, at most, it should be a target with the arrows popping into the ring you hit. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hey, Thomas. The De Steno Games app yes it does have some text but sighted people can't see it. All they see is white dots, which in the update of the app we are hoping to fix this and to improve the app for all players blind and sighted. I have alot of people that are sighted that would love to play with the app but they would like to be able to play without the screen reader. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
How about instructions on how to play the game after the game name and creator? That would be OK. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news. Hi Ryan, Exactly. I think some blind game developers often forget that if they display a totally blank window a sighted user will assume their is something wrong with their phone, the software, etc and freque out immediately assuming there is something wrong because they are not use to seeing this behavior. Something simple like a splash screen with the words Audio Archery in large print would at least indicate to them that the app is working correctly and their phone isn't powered off or something. :D On 5/20/2012 9:30 AM, Ryan Strunk wrote: There's nothing stupid about it. When you play a game with 0 graphics, 0 background, 0 anything, it looks like your phone is turned off. So some sighted person will tap the archery icon, get this black background, and immediately freak out, sending numerous emails and complaints to Apple in the process. They're not asking Liam to animate the game. They just want some kind of picture in the background so people know the app is working properly. As someone already pointed out, even Papa Sangre has icons. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Dark, I understand where you are coming from as a fellow blind user, but as a developer I also can see Apple's point as well. Yes, its possible for a user to easily go back to the Home screen to see if the device is working, but that is beside the point. Audio games are extremely rare and I bet 99% of the iPhone users out there will expect a splash screen, some text, maybe a few buttons, etc rather than a blank screen. They aren't likely to realize the program is designed that way, because nobody besides blind developers write programs with a totally black screen. Its highly unusual and they will probably assume there is something wrong with the program and/or their device and will freak audio or no audio. Therefore Apple feels the best way to resolve that problem is by having audio games like Audio Archery have some sort of image, text, whatever to indicate that the device and game are working correctly. The problem with your argument about application x not having sound is that other applications don't need sound. In fact someone sighted can mute their phone and play games, send and receive text messages, browse the web, etc all without audio. I don't know of any sighted iPhone users who would think their speaker was busted if an app didn't have any sounds, but I'm pretty sure if an app came up with a black screen they'd assume there is something wrong with the phone or the program. Therefore Apple is fully in its rights to request that there is some visual interface to even audio games. Even if it is nothing more than a splash screen with a Robin Hood looking guy pointing a bow and arrow and the words Audio Archery in large print across the top of the window. Perhaps a few buttons like new game, start game, quit, etc below the image. I don't think this is too much to ask, and is very simple to do. At least if a sighted person buys the game they'll be able to see its working even if the graphics are primitive. Cheers! On 5/20/2012 4:07 PM, dark wrote: I'm afraid I disagree Ryan, sinse the entire point of an audio game is that the audio is still laying, so no reason for sighted people to freak. By the same logic, shouldn't all those soundless aps have sound just in case someone freaked out because they thought their speakers were bust? And anyway, don't Iphones have a way to alt tab to the desktop or nearest equivolent? while I freely confess I know little about the interface, I'd be very shocked if once something was running you couldn't go back to your basic phone setup or pull up a taskbar, just in case it crashed, in which case, no freakout. As I said, unless Apple are requiring the same requirements from visual only programs that have no sound, which planely they are not doing, this strikes me simply as unrealistic standard applied to a medium they weren't meant to be applied to. Beware the Grue! dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Dark, Sigh.This is the problem inherent with blind people. Instead of just trying to meet sighted people like Apple half way and add a few graphics to make the main game window more visually appealing you are willing to dig your heals in and debate the point when nothing you say or do will change their minds on that score. If you don't like Apple's terms then don't buy their phone and don't develop games for their device. Its really that simple. Cheers! On 5/20/2012 5:56 PM, dark wrote: As I said on audiogames.net, I think Liam should put in a picture with a message that says this is an audio game, meaning it has no graphics and sound, and this picture serves no purpose at all and is a waste of space We'd see how they like them! apples! :d. of course, apple would doubltess reject this, but it's an amusing thought none the less. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi Phil, Lol! I was thinking something similar. Its a good idea. Cheers! On 5/20/2012 7:58 PM, Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Folks, I can imagine the perfect graphic for Audio Archery. The side view of Robin Hood pulling back the string of his bow while wearing dark glasses and headphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Recent Tweets from L-Works. Audio Archery got rejected. Apple did not like the empty screen. also need icons. I gave the artist a couple ideas. he's gonna send me some drags in a couple days waiting on Icons still. as soon as one gets created I will resubmit app. So never fear. http://twitter.com/#!/lworksgames --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hey, I don't understand how apple keeps rejecting the app. There are a few games that don't have anything on the screen, they just have a blank screen. I wonder if apple is starting to act crazy now that Steve Jobs is gone? This is very interresting information. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
Hi, I'm honestly not surprised. Any time an audio game has to pass a review board the first thing that shoots it down is the lack of graphics and icons. Its hard to get an audio game to pass without creating some nifty looking icons and maybe some kind of graphical splash screen to look at even though the game is expected to be played through audio means. Cheers! On 5/19/12, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Recent Tweets from L-Works. Audio Archery got rejected. Apple did not like the empty screen. also need icons. I gave the artist a couple ideas. he's gonna send me some drags in a couple days waiting on Icons still. as soon as one gets created I will resubmit app. So never fear. http://twitter.com/#!/lworksgames --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Audio Archery news.
This is why I stear clear of apple products. Even though they make a nice phone and operating system, it's not worth it. They have too much control over things that a normal user should be allowed to choose about. What do they know about accessible games anyway? You can't even change the battery of your phone or upgrade your computer's hardware without violating their lisence agreement. You can't program for IOS without using their propriotary tools that cost a lot of money and then some know it all tech at the app store decides that an audio game needs graphics. On 2012/05/20 02:31 AM, Phil Vlasak wrote: Recent Tweets from L-Works. Audio Archery got rejected. Apple did not like the empty screen. also need icons. I gave the artist a couple ideas. he's gonna send me some drags in a couple days waiting on Icons still. as soon as one gets created I will resubmit app. So never fear. http://twitter.com/#!/lworksgames --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
