Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf
One of the points is that they don't need another new interface unless they replace the darned ribbon interface with something that everyone, on an equal basis, can use. The pulldown menu interface worked for everyone, and it should have been left alone. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf HI, Wait...wait...go back. You are suggesting Microsoft make available the ribbon interface and menubarsat the same time? All right: that's all well and good. But what if they develop a third interface. Thenyou just tack that onto the list of interfaces, right? Then a fourth? And a fifth? We keep complaining that Windows is getting more and more bloated, but what about this kind of thing? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gauler Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Thomas, I personally are also not against new technologies or new features in future Windows operating systems or other programs. But I'd like to adress a few points as well. If a company wants to improove their software, then this is often good for all users and not because security might be better. But what I often don't get is why people think it is time to force design changes. I know of the ribbon interface of MS Office products and such. I don't have used them (Office 2007 or 2010) thus I won't comment on which screen reader can best handle it. I also know that every major upgrade brings new features as well. But what I don't get is why MS did come up with the new interface and removed the old interface instead of having them both in the product for every person sighted or not to choose the design of their product. I mean, why do programs like Winamp or Windows Media Player allow skins or skin packs? The players ship with a standard interface, but are open for user created content. Besides I had a sighted teacher who personally told me that he had several sighted friends and colleagues who were users of MS Office pre 2007 and when the new products came out they also had problems adapting and getting to figure out the new interface and they could see and use the mouse properly compared to us blind people. And about screen readers like Voice Over or Narrator. It would be good if thoose could be improoved. But what I still don't get is why any assistive technology included in an operating system (windows mostly) cannot be used to aid during first installation (when you format your hard drive or when you use a blank one). For years there was nothing short of a sighted person to help even if it became a bit easier with unattended installations of XP and a few older Windows versions. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf
Well I guess everyone wants to change. Not strictly to ms but my aunt works in a clothing company, everything was working, then they changed systems, and suffered and now just like ms they are getting the reputation of being unstable with staff not being happy, like some consumers with ms. We don't know which way it will go and that is probably more annoying than the issues themselves. At 07:41 p.m. 13/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: One of the points is that they don't need another new interface unless they replace the darned ribbon interface with something that everyone, on an equal basis, can use. The pulldown menu interface worked for everyone, and it should have been left alone. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf HI, Wait...wait...go back. You are suggesting Microsoft make available the ribbon interface and menubarsat the same time? All right: that's all well and good. But what if they develop a third interface. Thenyou just tack that onto the list of interfaces, right? Then a fourth? And a fifth? We keep complaining that Windows is getting more and more bloated, but what about this kind of thing? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gauler Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Thomas, I personally are also not against new technologies or new features in future Windows operating systems or other programs. But I'd like to adress a few points as well. If a company wants to improove their software, then this is often good for all users and not because security might be better. But what I often don't get is why people think it is time to force design changes. I know of the ribbon interface of MS Office products and such. I don't have used them (Office 2007 or 2010) thus I won't comment on which screen reader can best handle it. I also know that every major upgrade brings new features as well. But what I don't get is why MS did come up with the new interface and removed the old interface instead of having them both in the product for every person sighted or not to choose the design of their product. I mean, why do programs like Winamp or Windows Media Player allow skins or skin packs? The players ship with a standard interface, but are open for user created content. Besides I had a sighted teacher who personally told me that he had several sighted friends and colleagues who were users of MS Office pre 2007 and when the new products came out they also had problems adapting and getting to figure out the new interface and they could see and use the mouse properly compared to us blind people. And about screen readers like Voice Over or Narrator. It would be good if thoose could be improoved. But what I still don't get is why any assistive technology included in an operating system (windows mostly) cannot be used to aid during first installation (when you format your hard drive or when you use a blank one). For years there was nothing short of a sighted person to help even if it became a bit easier with unattended installations of XP and a few older Windows versions. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf
The command prompt worked well enough for everyone too, except that it didn't really. The ribbons certainly have been controversial, but MS had a reason to believe it would be more convenient for the vast majority of their user base. Remember, companies don't design for edge cases, and we my friend are an edge case to a company that does the volume of sales that Microsoft does. It's the trade-off, you don't pay the blindness tax that you do with specialized companies, but you have to roll with what they provide to a much greater extent. The willingness of IOS and Android application developers to put access into their apps is a welcome exception to this phenomenon. So, if you want software designed with access in mind, then use HJPad or Guide or something like that, and no disrespect to you or those who use such programs, I've taught them when I thought it was warranted. But if you want access to the larger computer world, you're going to have to meet it part way at least, and the bigger the company you buy software from, the farther you're going to have to go. Don't like the ribbons, I believe there is a work-around that puts the menus back in, at least for Office 2007. But please, many of the rest of us have experienced the ongoing advances in computer and related technologies to be a boon for our access to services and information, so try to understand why we find your viewpoint puzzling at best and frustratingly indicative of a problem in our community that holds back innovation in our own software designs. Christopher Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 8:41 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf One of the points is that they don't need another new interface unless they replace the darned ribbon interface with something that everyone, on an equal basis, can use. The pulldown menu interface worked for everyone, and it should have been left alone. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for anupdated Lone Wolf HI, Wait...wait...go back. You are suggesting Microsoft make available the ribbon interface and menubarsat the same time? All right: that's all well and good. But what if they develop a third interface. Thenyou just tack that onto the list of interfaces, right? Then a fourth? And a fifth? We keep complaining that Windows is getting more and more bloated, but what about this kind of thing? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gauler Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Thomas, I personally are also not against new technologies or new features in future Windows operating systems or other programs. But I'd like to adress a few points as well. If a company wants to improove their software, then this is often good for all users and not because security might be better. But what I often don't get is why people think it is time to force design changes. I know of the ribbon interface of MS Office products and such. I don't have used them (Office 2007 or 2010) thus I won't comment on which screen reader can best handle it. I also know that every major upgrade brings new features as well. But what I don't get is why MS did come up with the new interface and removed the old interface instead of having them both in the product for every person sighted or not to choose the design of their product. I mean, why do programs like Winamp or Windows Media Player allow skins or skin packs? The players ship with a standard interface, but are open for user created content. Besides I had a sighted teacher who personally told me that he had several sighted friends and colleagues who were users of MS Office pre 2007 and when the new products came out they also had problems adapting and getting to figure out the new interface and they could see and use the mouse properly compared to us blind people. And about screen readers like Voice Over or Narrator. It would be good if thoose could be improoved. But what I still don't get is why any assistive technology included in an operating system (windows mostly) cannot be used to aid during first installation (when you format your hard drive or when you use a blank one). For years there was nothing short of a sighted person to help even if it became a bit easier with unattended installations of XP and a few older Windows
