Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
Hi Devon, JFYI, I just got Shakti running without problems in Konsole on KDE Manjaro 64bit , which is an Arch derivative. Documentation and system requirements a scarce though. HTH /JoHo On 25.02.2020 18:02, Devon McCormick wrote: Thanks to everyone for your answers. I worked with a couple of flavors of *nix years ago and am interested to see how it has progressed since then. On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:54 AM Alex Shroyer wrote: -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
You will probably get many different answers to this question. For someone new to Linux, I recommend starting with a massively popular one like Ubuntu. It's not necessarily better (that's subjective), but because of its popularity, it is really easy to find answers to questions you might ask. Sites like https://askubuntu.com/ cover a lot of ground. On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 2:11 PM Devon McCormick wrote: > Thanks for this, Raul. I have seen a litany of complaints about systemd on > /. over the years but it's good to see the problems with it laid out like > this. > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:05 AM Raul Miller wrote: > > > It's probably worth noting that for many purposes, devuan -- > > https://devuan.org/ -- is an alternative to debian. > > > > I don't think they explained the systemd issue well enough, so here's > > a few high points (or... low points). Some of these may have been at > > least partially addressed, but it's been dreary: > > > > (*) Systemd is not modular, and replaces most of the linux > infrastructure. > > (*) Systemd (and dbus) is poorly documented. > > (*) Systemd breaks compatibility with various internet standards. > > (*) The systemd boot process is non-deterministic, and can > > intermittently fail to boot for people who reconfigure it. > > > > It should be possible to fix all of these issues. But poor > > documentation slows everything down. (The systemd developer has, in > > the past, mostly simply stated that these are not problems.) > > > > Anyways... another alternative that I've messed around with a little > > is OpenBSD. J needs a few things changed for that environment, but it > > wasn't too bad when I was trying that. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Raul > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 2:58 PM Bill Harris > wrote: > > > > > > Devon, > > > > > > FWIW, I've used Debian Stable (https://debian.org) for >10 years. I > > trade > > > off bleeding-edge software versions for stability. > > > > > > I have used Debian Unstable (aka Sid). It is bleeding edge, but I > don't > > > recall having many problems with it, and those that did occur tended to > > get > > > fixed quickly. Then again, that was perhaps 10+ years ago, and my > memory > > > of that is probably not too accurate. > > > > > > I explicitly don't use Debian Testing anymore. I tried it once and ran > > > into the problem I had read about: > > > > > > > > >- I encountered a bug (happened to be with grub, so booting became > > >problematic IIRC). > > >- Debian fixed it rather rapidly and put the fix into a 2-week(?) > > >testing period in Sid. > > >- It failed--more than once, IIRC, resetting the 2-week testing > period > > >each time. > > >- After multiple weeks, I finally got a working grub. > > > > > > I can't promise they still have the same process. > > > > > > With Sid, I would have gotten a fix immediately. The first two or so > > would > > > have failed, but the last one would have come my way without the two > week > > > wait. > > > > > > With Stable, I wouldn't have seen anything until the new, tested, > working > > > code was there. > > > > > > Have you seen https://distrowatch.com/? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:53 AM Devon McCormick > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux > > (includes > > > > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > > > > > > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but > > it's > > > > not available on Windows. > > > > > > > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a > > issue > > > > for any *nix. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Devon > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > > > > > > > Quantitative Consultant > > > > > -- > > > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Bill Harris > > > http://makingsense.facilitatedsystems.com/ > > > -- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > -- > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > Quantitative Consultant > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
Thanks for this, Raul. I have seen a litany of complaints about systemd on /. over the years but it's good to see the problems with it laid out like this. On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:05 AM Raul Miller wrote: > It's probably worth noting that for many purposes, devuan -- > https://devuan.org/ -- is an alternative to debian. > > I don't think they explained the systemd issue well enough, so here's > a few high points (or... low points). Some of these may have been at > least partially addressed, but it's been dreary: > > (*) Systemd is not modular, and replaces most of the linux infrastructure. > (*) Systemd (and dbus) is poorly documented. > (*) Systemd breaks compatibility with various internet standards. > (*) The systemd boot process is non-deterministic, and can > intermittently fail to boot for people who reconfigure it. > > It should be possible to fix all of these issues. But poor > documentation slows everything down. (The systemd developer has, in > the past, mostly simply stated that these are not problems.) > > Anyways... another alternative that I've messed around with a little > is OpenBSD. J needs a few things changed for that environment, but it > wasn't too bad when I was trying that. > > Thanks, > > -- > Raul > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 2:58 PM Bill Harris wrote: > > > > Devon, > > > > FWIW, I've used Debian Stable (https://debian.org) for >10 years. I > trade > > off bleeding-edge software versions for stability. > > > > I have used Debian Unstable (aka Sid). It is bleeding edge, but I don't > > recall having many problems with it, and those that did occur tended to > get > > fixed quickly. Then again, that was perhaps 10+ years ago, and my memory > > of that is probably not too accurate. > > > > I explicitly don't use Debian Testing anymore. I tried it once and ran > > into the problem I had read about: > > > > > >- I encountered a bug (happened to be with grub, so booting became > >problematic IIRC). > >- Debian fixed it rather rapidly and put the fix into a 2-week(?) > >testing period in Sid. > >- It failed--more than once, IIRC, resetting the 2-week testing period > >each time. > >- After multiple weeks, I finally got a working grub. > > > > I can't promise they still have the same process. > > > > With Sid, I would have gotten a fix immediately. The first two or so > would > > have failed, but the last one would have come my way without the two week > > wait. > > > > With Stable, I wouldn't have seen anything until the new, tested, working > > code was there. > > > > Have you seen https://distrowatch.com/? > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:53 AM Devon McCormick > wrote: > > > > > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux > (includes > > > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > > > > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but > it's > > > not available on Windows. > > > > > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a > issue > > > for any *nix. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Devon > > > -- > > > > > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > > > > > Quantitative Consultant > > > -- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bill Harris > > http://makingsense.facilitatedsystems.com/ > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Devon McCormick, CFA Quantitative Consultant -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
It's probably worth noting that for many purposes, devuan -- https://devuan.org/ -- is an alternative to debian. I don't think they explained the systemd issue well enough, so here's a few high points (or... low points). Some of these may have been at least partially addressed, but it's been dreary: (*) Systemd is not modular, and replaces most of the linux infrastructure. (*) Systemd (and dbus) is poorly documented. (*) Systemd breaks compatibility with various internet standards. (*) The systemd boot process is non-deterministic, and can intermittently fail to boot for people who reconfigure it. It should be possible to fix all of these issues. But poor documentation slows everything down. (The systemd developer has, in the past, mostly simply stated that these are not problems.) Anyways... another alternative that I've messed around with a little is OpenBSD. J needs a few things changed for that environment, but it wasn't too bad when I was trying that. Thanks, -- Raul On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 2:58 PM Bill Harris wrote: > > Devon, > > FWIW, I've used Debian Stable (https://debian.org) for >10 years. I trade > off bleeding-edge software versions for stability. > > I have used Debian Unstable (aka Sid). It is bleeding edge, but I don't > recall having many problems with it, and those that did occur tended to get > fixed quickly. Then again, that was perhaps 10+ years ago, and my memory > of that is probably not too accurate. > > I explicitly don't use Debian Testing anymore. I tried it once and ran > into the problem I had read about: > > >- I encountered a bug (happened to be with grub, so booting became >problematic IIRC). >- Debian fixed it rather rapidly and put the fix into a 2-week(?) >testing period in Sid. >- It failed--more than once, IIRC, resetting the 2-week testing period >each time. >- After multiple weeks, I finally got a working grub. > > I can't promise they still have the same process. > > With Sid, I would have gotten a fix immediately. The first two or so would > have failed, but the last one would have come my way without the two week > wait. > > With Stable, I wouldn't have seen anything until the new, tested, working > code was there. > > Have you seen https://distrowatch.com/? > > Bill > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:53 AM Devon McCormick wrote: > > > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux (includes > > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's > > not available on Windows. > > > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue > > for any *nix. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devon > > -- > > > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > > > Quantitative Consultant > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > -- > Bill Harris > http://makingsense.facilitatedsystems.com/ > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
https://shakti.com/ I'm going to a Meetup for them Wednesday here in NYC. On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 3:14 PM Adrian Blake wrote: > I searched for documentation on Shakti, it is well hidden. Please point me > in the right direction > > Adrian > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:53 PM Devon McCormick > wrote: > > > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux > (includes > > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's > > not available on Windows. > > > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue > > for any *nix. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devon > > -- > > > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > > > Quantitative Consultant > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > -- > Adrian Blake, VK2ALF > 101 Mulach St > Cooma, NSW, 2630 > Australia > Mobile +61 407232978 > > Pärna tn 3 > Otepää > Valga > Estonia > Mobile +372 51971441 > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Devon McCormick, CFA Quantitative Consultant -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
I'm currently using Kubuntu. Fairly easy to use, plenty of possibilities to set it as you'd like. It also has a very handy (android) app to communicate with your phone that let's you share clipboard content, control your PC, send files... over wifi. No clue whether it also exists in an iOS version. I would recommend it. Jan-Pieter Op zo 23 feb. 2020 om 21:14 schreef Adrian Blake : > I searched for documentation on Shakti, it is well hidden. Please point me > in the right direction > > Adrian > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:53 PM Devon McCormick > wrote: > > > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux > (includes > > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's > > not available on Windows. > > > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue > > for any *nix. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Devon > > -- > > > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > > > Quantitative Consultant > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > -- > Adrian Blake, VK2ALF > 101 Mulach St > Cooma, NSW, 2630 > Australia > Mobile +61 407232978 > > Pärna tn 3 > Otepää > Valga > Estonia > Mobile +372 51971441 > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
I searched for documentation on Shakti, it is well hidden. Please point me in the right direction Adrian On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:53 PM Devon McCormick wrote: > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux (includes > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's > not available on Windows. > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue > for any *nix. > > Thanks, > > Devon > -- > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > Quantitative Consultant > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Adrian Blake, VK2ALF 101 Mulach St Cooma, NSW, 2630 Australia Mobile +61 407232978 Pärna tn 3 Otepää Valga Estonia Mobile +372 51971441 -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
Devon, FWIW, I've used Debian Stable (https://debian.org) for >10 years. I trade off bleeding-edge software versions for stability. I have used Debian Unstable (aka Sid). It is bleeding edge, but I don't recall having many problems with it, and those that did occur tended to get fixed quickly. Then again, that was perhaps 10+ years ago, and my memory of that is probably not too accurate. I explicitly don't use Debian Testing anymore. I tried it once and ran into the problem I had read about: - I encountered a bug (happened to be with grub, so booting became problematic IIRC). - Debian fixed it rather rapidly and put the fix into a 2-week(?) testing period in Sid. - It failed--more than once, IIRC, resetting the 2-week testing period each time. - After multiple weeks, I finally got a working grub. I can't promise they still have the same process. With Sid, I would have gotten a fix immediately. The first two or so would have failed, but the last one would have come my way without the two week wait. With Stable, I wouldn't have seen anything until the new, tested, working code was there. Have you seen https://distrowatch.com/? Bill On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:53 AM Devon McCormick wrote: > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux (includes > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's > not available on Windows. > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue > for any *nix. > > Thanks, > > Devon > -- > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > Quantitative Consultant > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Bill Harris http://makingsense.facilitatedsystems.com/ -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
Probably more of a chat question than a general question. Also, MacOS isn't linux, it's bsd. But keep in mind also that windows supports linux installs (WSL): https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10 Thanks, -- Raul On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 12:53 PM Devon McCormick wrote: > > Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux (includes > MacOS) or a warning about the same? > > I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's > not available on Windows. > > I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue > for any *nix. > > Thanks, > > Devon > -- > > Devon McCormick, CFA > > Quantitative Consultant > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
[Jgeneral] A good version of Linux
Hi - does anyone have a recommendation of a good flavor of Linux (includes MacOS) or a warning about the same? I'm interested in trying out Shakti which is a new version of K but it's not available on Windows. I mostly care about being able to run emacs which I assume is not a issue for any *nix. Thanks, Devon -- Devon McCormick, CFA Quantitative Consultant -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
