On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 06:18, Niall Pemberton
niall.pember...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
It is not about making podlings thoughtlessly
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
It is not about making podlings thoughtlessly follow checklists.
It is about TEACHING them what are the important aspects of
Craig L Russell wrote on Mon, 9 Nov 2009 at 14:12 -0800:
Hi Greg,
I'm afraid that you have totally mistranslated my message and I have no idea
why.
I'm not trying to pick a fight.
I'm trying to be reasonable.
I don't perceive your reaction as positive.
I'm not going to continue
Greg Stein wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
I'm a little confused. I'm reading a really long rant here, but I expect
if you look at what nearly all mentors do in their respective podlings,
this is exactly what they
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Martijn Dashorst
martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com
wrote:
To be clear, it's on the mentors to decide what is applicable and
necessary for graduation - not the
Joe Schaefer wrote:
From: Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com
Let me put it another way: if the IPMC accepts a proposal with one
mentor, then I'm fine with that one mentor acting on behalf of the
IPMC without the need to constantly go back to the IPMC for approval.
-- justin
For
Greg Stein wrote:
Yup. And I'll note that that limbo you describe has been an issue
with the Board for a long while now. That is why the Board instructed
the IPMC to request all podlings to list two items in their reports:
1) when did you arrive?
2) what is left?
Specifically to focus
Martijn Dashorst wrote:
Would a waiver be possible for Diversity (large project dominated by 1
or 2 vendors)? For the minimum required binding votes (small
communities of 2 committers)?
Such things have been requested, and granted in the past, based on the
demonstrated ability of the project
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote:
...Let me put it another way: if the IPMC accepts a proposal with one
mentor, then I'm fine with that one mentor acting on behalf of the
IPMC without the need to constantly go back to the IPMC for approval
I see
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
...I am seeking a
waiver of the make a release requirement. And you can simply wait
for me to send that, rather than continuing to speculate about whether
I'm going to rely on seniority or on experience
I like that - at
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:48, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
Greg Stein wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
I'm a little confused. I'm reading a really long rant here, but I expect
if you look at what
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:59, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
Greg Stein wrote:
Yup. And I'll note that that limbo you describe has been an issue
with the Board for a long while now. That is why the Board instructed
the IPMC to request all podlings to list two items in their
On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:48, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net
wrote:
Greg Stein wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING
podlings
how to work here at Apache.
I'm a little confused. I'm reading a
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:23, Kevan Miller kevan.mil...@gmail.com wrote:
On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
...
And that is exactly what I'd like to do. But when the Incubator
*imposes* requirements of release that does not meet the project's own
quality guidelines, for an
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
We're making a 1.6.7 release in the next 2-3 weeks, as I stated
before. The Incubator can see how that works (I also gave pointers to
1.6.6).
+1 Since Subversion release procedures already meet most Apache
policies,
Greg Stein wrote:
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:48, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net
wrote:
Quite frankly, all svncorp releases could, with reasonable documentation
[read: mailing list archives, CLA's and code grant] be licensed as ASF
releases under the AL 2.0, irrespective of their
- Original Message
From: William A. Rowe Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 10:08:40 AM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was:
[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Greg wrote:
Look at the context
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:02, Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
We're making a 1.6.7 release in the next 2-3 weeks, as I stated
before. The Incubator can see how that works (I also gave pointers to
1.6.6).
I have no idea why the term Board even comes up in your response.
What's that got to do with my problems with the IPMC attempting to
impose make-work on the svn podling?
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:03, William A. Rowe Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
Greg Stein wrote:
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at
Joe Schaefer wrote:
- Original Message
From: William A. Rowe Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 10:08:40 AM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was:
[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Greg wrote
Greg Stein wrote:
I have no idea why the term Board even comes up in your response.
What's that got to do with my problems with the IPMC attempting to
impose make-work on the svn podling?
Because when you post to a broad-list such as general@, you are
communicating to all incubating podlings
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
Unfortunately, some documentation needs to be brought in sync.
See: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#checklist
I'm nitpicking, but even there we only ask the podlings to
demonstrate ability to create
- Original Message
From: Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 1:25:40 PM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was:
[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 16:39, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
- Original Message
From: Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 1:25:40 PM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education
- Original Message
From: Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 1:58:28 PM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was:
[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 16:39, Joe Schaefer wrote
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 17:35, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
...
Neither 1.6.6 nor the upcoming 1.6.7 are Apache-branded releases. The
input that I received was that that was insufficient -- a branded
release was necessary.
I haven't seen that discussion, but unless you actually
- Original Message
From: Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 2:54:28 PM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was:
[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 17:35, Joe Schaefer wrote
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
So what are you teaching with e-mails like this, Greg?
When you disagree with someone, SHOUT a bit and write a long rant?
Or
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
...
The Incubator PMC is here to TEACH podlings. Stop and think before
attempting to apply rules and procedures.
+1.
The
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 09:14, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings
how to work here at Apache.
So what are you teaching with e-mails like this, Greg?
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote:
To be clear, it's on the mentors to decide what is applicable and
necessary for graduation - not the IPMC as a whole.
Nope... The whole IPMC has been tasked with oversight. The mentors are
proxies for the whole IPMC.
Yes, *AND* ensuring legal dots are put on the i's and j's. This is
done through checking the release and ensuring that it is in adherence
to our policies which you and others have crafted. *All* podlings have
to ensure they have the correct licensing headers, notices and other
bits in place before
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 09:27, Martijn Dashorst
martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, *AND* ensuring legal dots are put on the i's and j's. This is
done through checking the release and ensuring that it is in adherence
to our policies which you and others have crafted. *All* podlings have
to
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Martijn Dashorst
martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com
wrote:
To be clear, it's on the mentors to decide what is applicable and
necessary for graduation - not the IPMC as a whole.
Nope... The
Martijn Dashorst wrote:
Yes, *AND* ensuring legal dots are put on the i's and j's. This is
done through checking the release and ensuring that it is in adherence
to our policies which you and others have crafted. *All* podlings have
to ensure they have the correct licensing headers, notices
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote:
To be clear, it's on the mentors to decide what is applicable and
necessary for graduation - not the IPMC as a whole. The IPMC as a
whole has only two roles: approving a proposal and recommending
graduation
Also,
Hi Greg,
I am not on either side of the debate here, but Martijn is correct in
pointing that the formal standard was applied to *all* podlings to
date. There's more than a few projects in the ASF that were originally
developed in the open, with strong communities. And in those cases
that
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:11, Andrus Adamchik and...@objectstyle.org wrote:
Hi Greg,
I am not on either side of the debate here, but Martijn is correct in
pointing that the formal standard was applied to *all* podlings to date.
I understand, and will simply ask was that the right thing to do?
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote:
Also, to be clear, as an IPMC member I spend quite a bit of time with
projects where I am not a mentor, casting (binding) votes on things
like their releases. I will continue to do that, inline with procedure
and policy and
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote:
This is where I think the Incubator has gone awry: the claim that you
are an IPMC member implies that you have merit on a project (in the
form of a binding vote) is false.
Not sure if I am looking at the same
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote:
...I'm mildly uncomfortable with mentors who aren't actually involved in
the project telling a community what to do - but I accept that as a
necessity of the Incubation process. However, I'm much more
uncomfortable
On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
I mean, really... how many other projects that are 9.5 years old(*) do
we expect to see arriving here? And of those, how many *started* with
the ideas and precepts of the Apache Software Foundation? I suspect it
will be zero, so wasting a lot of
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
OTOH, podlings that don't have 3 active mentors can't get 3 binding
votes internally, so IPMC members have to jump in sometimes. Thanks to
those of us who do!
I view the proposal accepting the projects with the
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:53, Andrus Adamchik and...@objectstyle.org wrote:
On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
I mean, really... how many other projects that are 9.5 years old(*) do
we expect to see arriving here? And of those, how many *started* with
the ideas and precepts of the
- Original Message
From: Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 7:56:53 AM
Subject: Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was:
[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Bertrand
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 09:27, Martijn Dashorst
martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, *AND* ensuring legal dots are put on the i's and j's. This is
done through checking the release and ensuring that it is in adherence
to our
Hi Greg,
I'm afraid that you have totally mistranslated my message and I have
no idea why.
I'm not trying to pick a fight.
I'm trying to be reasonable.
I don't perceive your reaction as positive.
I'm not going to continue this discussion until you have something
concrete to discuss. I
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
snip content=well said slammer /
The Incubator PMC is here to TEACH podlings. Stop and think before
attempting to apply rules and procedures.
Amen, Amin, Quod erat demonstrandum, So be it. or your own
favorite conclusion
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