Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 released

[Emilian Bold]

> Announcements of incubating releases must include the standard disclaimer.

I've read that release *artifacts* must include the disclaimer. Where is the 
announcement email content specified?

> Please link instead to
>
> https://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/KEYS

OK.

> Please don't link directly to the closer.cgi page as it does not
> provide ready access to the KEYS, sigs, hashes.
> Use the download page (as above)

OK.

> > The specific artifact voted on the IPMC vote thread[1]:
> > https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-source.zip
>
> As above
>
> > SHA1: ed2098c173460ec81f05635055066da06a7ea82b
> > KEYS file: 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
>
> As above

Since I'm not supposed to be linking to any specific artifact, is there any 
reason to include a link to KEYS or to mention the SHA1?

--emi

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[ANNOUNCE] Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 released

[Emilian Bold]

The Apache NetBeans team is proud to announce the release of Apache
NetBeans (incubating) 9.0.

Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 constitutes all the modules in
the Apache NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans
Platform (i.e., the underlying application framework), as well as all
the modules that provide the Java SE-related features of Apache
NetBeans.
In short, Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 is a full IDE for Java
SE development.

Read more on our download page:

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb90/nb90.html

New & Noteworthy features of the 9.0 Release:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+New+and+Noteworthy

Details on Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+Final+Release

Download and try out Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0:

https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0/

The specific artifact voted on the IPMC vote thread[1]:

https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-source.zip
SHA1: ed2098c173460ec81f05635055066da06a7ea82b
KEYS file: https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS

See the below for the donation status of features that have not been donated or 
included in Apache builds yet, i.e., are not part of Apache NetBeans 
(incubating) 9.0, e.g., features for working with Java EE, JavaScript, PHP, 
C/C++, and more:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Transition

Work is being done on bringing netbeans.org to Apache. In the
meantime, refer to the below for all details related to Apache
NetBeans:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS

Emilian Bold
on behalf of Apache NetBeans PPMC

1. 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ab58e2c75d260a91851d8def412b1ef6648aaf4f690b205aaaf53924@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E

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[RESULT][VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) [vote candidate 3]

[Emilian Bold]

Thanks to all who voted!

The release has PASSED with the following IPMC votes:

+1 Ate Douma (binding)
+1 Bertrand Delacretaz (binding)
+1 Mark Struberg (binding)

11 members of the Apache NetBeans PPMC and 16 members of the Apache NetBeans 
community voted +1 in the PPMC vote for this release.

I will proceed to publish the release and send ANNOUNCE.

On behalf of the Apache NetBeans podling, thank you!

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 24 July 2018 8:27 AM, Emilian Bold  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to release 
> Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) [vc3].
>
> We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this 
> incubator release candidate.
>
> Vote thread:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a644bb8e3ba2cbd06328bb004f1b18b4171763cd3d78a9131615f687@
>
> Vote result thread:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/31f8a8fd70dc2ba635c6a67693c512ed9e5b30af99fbe79afe55293b@
>
> In the above, note there are two IPMC binding votes from Ate Douma and 
> Bertrand Delacretaz, both Apache NetBeans (incubating) mentors, 11 PPMC votes 
> and 16 Apache NetBeans community votes.
>
> Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the Apache 
> NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform (i.e., the 
> underlying application framework), as well as all the modules that provide 
> the Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
>
> In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
> development.
>
> Build artifacts available here:
>
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3
>
> The specific artifact to be voted on:
>
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-source.zip
>
> Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
> files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same 
> as these:
>
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=blob_plain;f=README.md;h=eccd3c6cc707ba9ca219bcfb72979435d85f5f7a;hb=97904961e496383d6150aef9b78fa8dff8f3e1ce
>
> SHA1: ed2098c173460ec81f05635055066da06a7ea82b
>
> KEYS file:
>
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
>
> Apache NetBeans Git Repo tag: 9.0-vc3 :
>
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=tag;h=refs/tags/9.0-vc3
>
> Note: NetBeans license violation checks are managed via the 
> rat-exclusions.txt file:
>
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=blob;f=nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt;h=36cb8a3eae40bd7fc41c63c6055bce42f7916859;hb=97904961e496383d6150aef9b78fa8dff8f3e1ce
>
> Rat report shows no unknown licenses, except for license files:
>
> https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-release/334/artifact/rat-java-temp/nbbuild/build/rat-report.txt
>
> Included as a convenience binary, not relevant for the voting purposes (unzip 
> it, run it and you'll see Apache NetBeans):
>
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-bin.zip
>
> Also included as a convenience binary the NBMs:
>
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3/nbms
>
> New & Noteworthy features of the 9.0 Release:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+New+and+Noteworthy
>
> Release specific wiki page:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+Final+Release
>
> How (and what) to try out the release:
>
> 1.  Download the artifact to be voted on and unzip it.
> 2.  Verify the cryptographic signatures, the NOTICE and LICENSE file
> 3.  Build it using the README provided by the artifact.
> 4.  Look in nbbuild/netbeans for the NetBeans installation created by the 
> build process.
> 5.  Run the NetBeans executable and (if you're running on JDK 8) you'll be 
> prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its licensing terms, and (if 
> you're running on JDK 9), you'll be able to use javac directly from JDK 9 
> and, optionally, you'll be prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to 
> its licensing terms.
>
> If the above succeeds, vote +1 in this thread.
>
> Please try out the package, using the instructions above, and vote!
>
> The vote is open for 5 days.
>
> [ ] +1 Release this package as Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating)
> [ ] 0 I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with the release
> [ ] -1 Do not release this package because...
>
> Emilian Bold
> on behalf of the Apache NetBeans PPMC
>


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[VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) [vote candidate 3]

[Emilian Bold]

Hi all,

The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to release 
Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) [vc3].

We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this 
incubator release candidate.

Vote thread:

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a644bb8e3ba2cbd06328bb004f1b18b4171763cd3d78a9131615f687@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

Vote result thread:

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/31f8a8fd70dc2ba635c6a67693c512ed9e5b30af99fbe79afe55293b@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

In the above, note there are two IPMC binding votes from Ate Douma and Bertrand 
Delacretaz, both Apache NetBeans (incubating) mentors, 11 PPMC votes and 16 
Apache NetBeans community votes.

Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the Apache 
NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform (i.e., the 
underlying application framework), as well as all the modules that provide the 
Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.

In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
development.

Build artifacts available here:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3

The specific artifact to be voted on:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-source.zip

Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same as 
these:

https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=blob_plain;f=README.md;h=eccd3c6cc707ba9ca219bcfb72979435d85f5f7a;hb=97904961e496383d6150aef9b78fa8dff8f3e1ce

SHA1: ed2098c173460ec81f05635055066da06a7ea82b

KEYS file:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS

Apache NetBeans Git Repo tag: 9.0-vc3 :

https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=tag;h=refs/tags/9.0-vc3

Note: NetBeans license violation checks are managed via the rat-exclusions.txt 
file:

https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-netbeans.git;a=blob;f=nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt;h=36cb8a3eae40bd7fc41c63c6055bce42f7916859;hb=97904961e496383d6150aef9b78fa8dff8f3e1ce

Rat report shows no unknown licenses, except for license files:

https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-release/334/artifact/rat-java-temp/nbbuild/build/rat-report.txt

Included as a convenience binary, not relevant for the voting purposes (unzip 
it, run it and you'll see Apache NetBeans):

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-bin.zip

Also included as a convenience binary the NBMs:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-vc3/nbms

New & Noteworthy features of the 9.0 Release:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+New+and+Noteworthy

Release specific wiki page:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+Final+Release

How (and what) to try out the release:

1. Download the artifact to be voted on and unzip it.
2. Verify the cryptographic signatures, the NOTICE and LICENSE file
3. Build it using the README provided by the artifact.
4. Look in nbbuild/netbeans for the NetBeans installation created by the build 
process.
5. Run the NetBeans executable and (if you're running on JDK 8) you'll be 
prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its licensing terms, and (if 
you're running on JDK 9), you'll be able to use javac directly from JDK 9 and, 
optionally, you'll be prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its 
licensing terms.

If the above succeeds, vote +1 in this thread.

Please try out the package, using the instructions above, and vote!

The vote is open for 5 days.

[ ] +1 Release this package as Apache NetBeans 9.0 (incubating)
[ ] 0 I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with the release
[ ] -1 Do not release this package because...

Emilian Bold
on behalf of the Apache NetBeans PPMC

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Re: Suggestion for podling reminder report emails.

[Emilian Bold]

+1

Maybe the script just BCCs all the podlings, otherwise it should be a small 
change to make.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 10 June 2018 12:28 AM, Edward Capriolo  wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I have been personally slacking a bit, but I wanted to point something out.
> 
> I subscribe to the mailing lists of 4 podlings. The email I get has a
> 
> subject of
> 
> "Podling Report Reminder - June 2018"
> 
> The email is addressed to dev@gossip But with gmail you actually do not
> 
> see that until you click into the email and expand the to:
> 
> Again, I know I have been slacking, but it would be easier if the email
> 
> said: "gossip podling reminder"
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Edward



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Re: Fwd: graphviz as a potential apache project

[Emilian Bold]

Apache NetBeans is a pretty big and mature project too and it's still 
undergoing incubation.

The advantage for NetBeans is that Sun Microsystems / Oracle owns all the IP 
and just donated it to Apache. It might be a bit more complicated for Graphviz.

That being said, I'm totally +1 on Graphviz, it's such a handy little project 
I've used from time to time.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 3 June 2018 6:29 PM,  wrote:

> Hi All
> 
> I received this request from Stephen so am forwarding to the general
> 
> incubator mailing list for discussion and any suggestions for options.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sharan
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> 
> Subject: graphviz as a potential apache project
> 
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 17:51:04 -0400
> 
> From: Stephen North scno...@gmail.com
> 
> Reply-To: Stephen North scno...@gmail.com
> 
> To: sha...@apache.org
> 
> Hi, Sharan. I hope you’re the right person for this. (Your org. just sent an 
> invitation
> 
> to an Apache roadshow event under your name.)
> 
> I’m one of the founders of Graphviz, 20+ years ago, and it’s useful 
> infrastructure
> 
> software with new and old applications in bioinformatics, machine learning, 
> software
> 
> engineering and other fields, including plugins for R, python, Haskell, 
> transpiled
> 
> into javascript, who knows what else. I think for example clang, llvm, maybe 
> Go
> 
> use it for debug output. See www.graphviz.org
> 
> We started this in AT Labs but AT discontinued all support for the work,
> 
> eliminated some of our jobs or encouraged us to leave, has disclaimed the 
> project,
> 
> so we’re on our own. We maintain the software and the website, that we moved 
> to gitlab.
> 
> We are looking for a more stable institutional home for Graphviz. Apache 
> seems like
> 
> a great match. Is this possible? How is a decision like that made? I’m not 
> sure a mature
> 
> project like this fits the incubator model. Are there other ways?
> 
> Sorry if this has gone long (I could say a lot more, too, for example how we 
> could put
> 
> focus effort on new features, or providing better resources to people that 
> need
> 
> network visualization as a service). I’m hoping you’re the right person to 
> start the conversation.
> 
> Thank you for your time, and for your consideration.
> 
> Stephen North



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[ANNOUNCE] Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 RC1 released

[Emilian Bold]

The Apache NetBeans team is proud to announce the release of Apache NetBeans 
(incubating) 9.0 RC1.

Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 RC1 constitutes all the modules in the Apache 
NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform (i.e., the 
underlying application framework), as well as all the modules that provide the 
Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
In short, Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 RC1 is a full IDE for Java SE 
development.

See the below for the donation status of features that have not been donated to 
Apache yet, i.e., are not part of Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 RC1, e.g., 
features for working with Java EE, JavaScript, PHP, C/C++, and more:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Transition

Details on Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 RC1:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+RC1

Download and try out Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 RC1:

https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1/

Work is being done on bringing netbeans.org to Apache. In the meantime, refer 
to the below for all details related to Apache NetBeans:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS

Emilian Bold
on behalf of Apache NetBeans PPMC

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[RESULT] [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

Thanks to all who voted!

The release has PASSED with the following IPMC votes:

+1 Ate Douma (binding)
+1 Bertrand Delacretaz (binding)
+1 Mark Struberg (binding)

+0 Justin Mclean (binding)

Also, 3 community members voted +1 on the IPMC thread.

10 members of the Apache NetBeans PPMC and Apache NetBeans community voted +1 
in the PPMC vote for this release, one Apache NetBeans PPMC member voted -1.

I will proceed to publish the release and send ANNOUNCE.

On behalf of the Apache NetBeans podling, thank you!

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 21 May 2018 1:33 AM, Emilian Bold  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to release 
> Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1.
> 
> We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this 
> incubator release candidate.
> 
> Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote thread:
> 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c2a06adc83e2819e6d96c7dff8d0e22a97001f99bfda12515d4d9609@
> 
> Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote result thread:
> 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/94f7a5e4601e26c7edb8264df7df53dd8ed215ecfc568816a162f2af@
> 
> Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the 
> Apache NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform (i.e., 
> the underlying application framework), as well as all the modules that 
> provide the Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
> 
> In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
> development.
> 
> Build artifacts available here:
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1
> 
> The specific artifact to be voted on:
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip
> 
> Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
> files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same 
> as these:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/README.md
> 
> SHA1: a1a265455c8246f849b14982fa3c36b351b21876
> 
> KEYS file:
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
> 
> Apache NetBeans Git Repo tag: 9.0-rc1-rc1:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-rc1-rc1
> 
> Note: NetBeans license violation checks are managed via the 
> rat-exclusions.txt file:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt
> 
> Rat report shows no unknown licenses, except for license files:
> 
> https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-release/302/artifact/rat-java-temp/nbbuild/build/rat-report.txt
> 
> The license files listed in the Rat report are known and an issue exists for 
> solving this:
> 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-305
> 
> Included as a convenience binary, not relevant for the voting purposes (unzip 
> it, run it and you'll see Apache NetBeans):
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-bin.zip
> 
> Also included as a convenience binary the NBMs:
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/nbms
> 
> New & Noteworthy features of the 9.0 Release:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+New+and+Noteworthy
> 
> Release specific wiki page:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+RC1
> 
> How (and what) to try out the release:
> 
> 1.  Download the artifact to be voted on and unzip it.
> 2.  Build it using the README provided by the artifact.
> 3.  Look in nbbuild/netbeans for the NetBeans installation created by the 
> build process.
> 4.  Run the NetBeans executable and (if you're running on JDK 8) you'll be 
> prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its licensing terms, and (if 
> you're running on JDK 9), you'll be able to use javac directly from JDK 9 
> and, optionally, you'll be prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to 
> its licensing terms.
> 
> If the above succeeds, i.e., Apache NetBeans installs and starts up, you 
> will have a development environment that complies with Apache IP requirements 
> and you should vote +1 in this thread.
> 
> Please try out the package, using the instructions above, and vote!
> 
> The vote is open for 7 days
> 
> [ ] +1 Release this package as Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating)
> 
> [ ] 0 I don't feel

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

Silly question but must Apache releases include test data?

Is there a restriction on such minor binary files in the repository or just 
binary files in the release zip?

I see no problem excluding all the tests in future NetBeans releases.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 27 May 2018 7:36 AM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:

> On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 12:20 AM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > > I wonder where exactly (most) of these files come from.
> > 
> > Sorry, many apologies, and my mistake as I looked at your last release by
> > 
> > accident. Changing my vote to +0 (binding).
> > 
> > I can still see the md5 hashes in the office release area [1] these should
> > 
> > be removed (but that’s a minor issue).
> > 
> > Re unexpected binary files it’s not open source if it contains
> > 
> > unmodifiable code, that’s usually a class file in a jar file but that could
> > 
> > also include things like obfuscated code or even minified JS.
> > 
> > This RC1 for instance contains this jar [2] but as it contains no code
> > 
> > that’s fine. But the _java.main.i in [3] is in a binary format and doesn’t
> > 
> > seem to be compressed file.
> 
> I think one could argue it is a compressed file[1], one just needs a
> 
> special tool to get the uncompressed version (as one needs to get data out
> 
> of the .zip or .tar.gz file):
> 
> $ unzip incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip
> 
> mercurial/test/qa-functional/data/JavaApp_repo.zip
> 
> Archive: incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip
> 
> inflating: mercurial/test/qa-functional/data/JavaApp_repo.zip
> 
> $ cd mercurial/test/qa-functional/data/
> 
> $ unzip JavaApp_repo.zip
> 
> Archive: JavaApp_repo.zip
> 
> creating: .hg/
> 
> creating: .hg/store/
> 
> creating: .hg/store/data/
> 
> extracting: .hg/store/data/build.xml.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/data/manifest.mf.i
> 
> creating: .hg/store/data/nbproject/
> 
> extracting: .hg/store/data/nbproject/build-impl.xml.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/data/nbproject/genfiles.properties.i
> 
> extracting: .hg/store/data/nbproject/project.properties.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/data/nbproject/project.xml.i
> 
> creating: .hg/store/data/src/
> 
> creating: .hg/store/data/src/javaapp/
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/data/src/javaapp/_main.java.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/00manifest.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/00changelog.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/store/undo
> 
> extracting: .hg/requires
> 
> inflating: .hg/00changelog.i
> 
> inflating: .hg/dirstate
> 
> inflating: .hg/undo.dirstate
> 
> extracting: .hgignore
> 
> $ hg log
> 
> changeset: 0:8df7d6dbbdba
> 
> tag: tip
> 
> user: Padraig OBriain padraig.obri...@sun.com
> 
> date: Tue Jul 17 14:13:47 2007 +0100
> 
> summary: Initial commit
> 
> $ hg cat -r 0 src/javaapp/Main.java
> 
> /*
> 
> -   Main.java
> -   
> -   Created on Jul 17, 2007, 2:13:19 PM
> -   
> -   To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
> -   and open the template in the editor.
> 
> /package javaapp;/*
> 
> -   
> -   @author padraigo
> 
> /public class Main {/*
> 
> -   @param args the command line arguments
> 
> */
> 
> public static void main(String[] args) {
> 
> // TODO code application logic here
> 
> }
> 
> }
> 
> (here I'd argue this file has no degree of creativity: this is simply 
> the
> 
> new file template at that time with file name, date and author filled
> 
> automatically by the IDE.)
> 
> [1] or, more in generally multiple compressed files, as this can hold
> 
> multiple revisions of the file, although there is only one revision 
> in this
> 
> repo.
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Justin
> > 
> > 1.  https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > 
> > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/
> > 
> > 2.  ./autoupdate.services/test/unit/src/org/netbeans/api/
> > 
> > autoupdate/data/empty.jar
> > 
> > 3.  ./mercurial/test/qa-functional/data/JavaApp_repo.zip
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org



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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

Thanks Ate!

We still need a few more votes this week the close voting.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 23 May 2018 11:44 PM, Ate Douma <a...@douma.nu> wrote:

> On 2018-05-23 20:57, Emilian Bold wrote:
> 
> > Ate, could we get a vote on this release?
> 
> Sure :-)
> 
> > If you look at 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+RC1
> >  we are already making progress on the (non-blocking) issues reported.
> 
> Yes, thanks for creating the follow-up issues to address the reported
> 
> issues.
> 
> With those tickets and the explanation given on my first question
> 
> I'm now +1 on this release candidate.
> 
> I would like to add that I agree with Justin that, while it might not be
> 
> a ASF policy issue to have a GPL license file in the distribution, I
> 
> also don't see how it serves any purpose and only will trigger
> 
> unnecessary warnings or worries by users or checker tools.
> 
> My recommendation is to get rid of those GPL license files.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ate
> 
> > --emi
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On 21 May 2018 3:54 PM, Ate Douma a...@douma.nu wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm inclined to vote positive on this RC1, overall looks great!
> > > 
> > > -   verified the MD5 and SHA1, and PGP signatures with the ASC files.
> > > 
> > > -   executed rat check (ant rat) and verified the report.
> > > 
> > > -   build and run the source (using JDK8), and all seems fine.
> > > 
> > > However I still have two questions:
> > > 
> > > a) nbbuild/licenses folder still has the GPL license file, which I
> > > 
> > > thought/expected no longer should be needed with the fix from
> > > 
> > > NETBEANS-305 [1]?
> > > 
> > > Is there still a GPL usage left? If so this then could be a blocker 
> > > IMO.
> > > 
> > > b) Justin provided detailed feedback on the 9.0-Beta-RC3 on (possible)
> > > 
> > > needed improvements/fixes for the binary dist LICENSE/NOTICE file [2],
> > > 
> > > thereafter recorded as a todo action list on the wiki [3] (end of 
> > > page).
> > > 
> > > Some of those points have been addressed (marked DONE), but many/most
> > > 
> > > are not, and neither resolved/fixed (or otherwise marked as NVT).
> > > 
> > > As just an example, Justin noticed for the 
> > > ./ide/modules/ext/smackx.jar
> > > 
> > > file that it included the BSD licensed JZlib, which wasn't mentioned 
> > > in
> > > 
> > > the LICENSE file. And still isn't for this 9.0-RC1.
> > > 
> > > I don't think any of those are blockers, but it would be good to 
> > > address
> > > 
> > > these (create NETBEANS issues for them) before the final 9.0 release.
> > > 
> > > Regards, Ate
> > > 
> > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-305
> > > 
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/540
> > > 
> > > [2]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201801.mbox/c4c5d5c4-ab44-4afe-ade2-9e91f593a...@classsoftware.com
> > > 
> > > [3]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+Beta+rc3
> > > 
> > > On 2018-05-21 00:33, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > 
> > > > The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to 
> > > > release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1.
> > > > 
> > > > We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on 
> > > > this incubator release candidate.
> > > > 
> > > > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote thread:
> > > > 
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c2a06adc83e2819e6d96c7dff8d0e22a97001f99bfda12515d4d9609@
> > > > 
> > > > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote result thread:
> > > > 
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/94f7a5e4601e26c7edb8264df7df53dd8ed215ecfc568816a162f2af@
> > > > 
> > > > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) constitutes all the module

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

Ate, could we get a vote on this release?

If you look at 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+RC1 we 
are already making progress on the (non-blocking) issues reported.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 21 May 2018 3:54 PM, Ate Douma <a...@douma.nu> wrote:

> I'm inclined to vote positive on this RC1, overall looks great!
> 
> -   verified the MD5 and SHA1, and PGP signatures with the ASC files.
> -   executed rat check (ant rat) and verified the report.
> -   build and run the source (using JDK8), and all seems fine.
> 
> However I still have two questions:
> 
> a) nbbuild/licenses folder still has the GPL license file, which I
> 
> thought/expected no longer should be needed with the fix from
> 
> NETBEANS-305 [1]?
> 
> Is there still a GPL usage left? If so this then could be a blocker IMO.
> 
> b) Justin provided detailed feedback on the 9.0-Beta-RC3 on (possible)
> 
> needed improvements/fixes for the binary dist LICENSE/NOTICE file [2],
> 
> thereafter recorded as a todo action list on the wiki [3] (end of page).
> 
> Some of those points have been addressed (marked DONE), but many/most
> 
> are not, and neither resolved/fixed (or otherwise marked as NVT).
> 
> As just an example, Justin noticed for the ./ide/modules/ext/smackx.jar
> 
> file that it included the BSD licensed JZlib, which wasn't mentioned in
> 
> the LICENSE file. And still isn't for this 9.0-RC1.
> 
> I don't think any of those are blockers, but it would be good to address
> 
> these (create NETBEANS issues for them) before the final 9.0 release.
> 
> Regards, Ate
> 
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-305
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/540
> 
> [2]
> 
> 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201801.mbox/<c4c5d5c4-ab44-4afe-ade2-9e91f593a...@classsoftware.com>
>     
> [3]
> 
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+Beta+rc3
> 
> On 2018-05-21 00:33, Emilian Bold wrote:
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to 
> > release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1.
> > 
> > We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on 
> > this incubator release candidate.
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c2a06adc83e2819e6d96c7dff8d0e22a97001f99bfda12515d4d9609@
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote result thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/94f7a5e4601e26c7edb8264df7df53dd8ed215ecfc568816a162f2af@
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the 
> > Apache NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform 
> > (i.e., the underlying application framework), as well as all the modules 
> > that provide the Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
> > 
> > In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
> > development.
> > 
> > Build artifacts available here:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1
> > 
> > The specific artifact to be voted on:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip
> > 
> > Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
> > files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same 
> > as these:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/README.md
> > 
> > SHA1: a1a265455c8246f849b14982fa3c36b351b21876
> > 
> > KEYS file:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans Git Repo tag: 9.0-rc1-rc1:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-rc1-rc1
> > 
> > Note: NetBeans license violation checks are managed via the 
> > rat-exclusions.txt file:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt
> > 
> > Rat report shows no unknown licenses, except for license files:
> > 
> > https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-release/302/artifact/rat-java-temp/nbbuild/buil

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

> A number of licenses mentioned in the LICENSE file are not mentioned
> at https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html, have they been cleared
> and if so do we have URLs of those clearances or discussions?
> 
> That's the following licenses:
> ISO-8879-SGML
> EDL-1.0
> W3C2
> OASIS
> WSDL-2004

I have created these issues to track these licenses.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-853
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-854
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-855
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-856
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-857

I actually believe they were reviewed before during the IP clearance in October 
but I have to track down the discussions, etc. and see how we reached the 
conclusion they don't need any other LEGAL issue or if we have one, etc.

--emi


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 23 May 2018 4:07 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Emilian Bold
> 
> emilian.b...@protonmail.ch wrote:
> 
> > We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on 
> > this incubator release candidate...
> 
> -1 for the release of incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip for
> 
> now due to the below open issue.
> 
> sha1=a1a265455c8246f849b14982fa3c36b351b21876
> 
> As mentioned, the rc1-rc1 naming is very confusing, for future
> 
> releases I suggest using different suffixes, maybe rc1-vc1 for "Voting
> 
> Candidate 1 of rc1". Does not prevent releasing but inconvenient.
> 
> I have not looked at the convenience binaries.
> 
> I have created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-851
> 
> "About box and splash screen don't say "Apache"" - not urgent.
> 
> Open issue:
> 
> A number of licenses mentioned in the LICENSE file are not mentioned
> 
> at https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html, have they been cleared
> 
> and if so do we have URLs of those clearances or discussions?
> 
> That's the following licenses:
> 
> ISO-8879-SGML
> 
> EDL-1.0
> 
> W3C2
> 
> OASIS
> 
> WSDL-2004
> 
> Here's what I checked and is ok:
> 
> Signatures verify after importing the 1CCF4647 key from
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
> 
> SHA1 digests match.
> 
> DISCLAIMER and NOTICE look good to me.
> 
> nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt is quite big for my taste but well documented.
> 
> I didn't find any problematic binary files in the archive, although
> 
> they are many of them, using the "file" command to analyze them, at
> 
> https://gist.github.com/bdelacretaz/fa48de8edd0e2fd0ac8c5517c1b615b7
> 
> Build with "ant" passes
> 
> Build with "ant tryme" starts the IDE.
> 
> Build with "ant rat" passes.
> 
> I will change to a +1 if the above open issue is resolved.
> 
> -Bertrand
> 
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org


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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

> b) Justin provided detailed feedback on the 9.0-Beta-RC3 on (possible) 
> needed improvements/fixes for the binary dist LICENSE/NOTICE file [2],
> thereafter recorded as a todo action list on the wiki [3] (end of page).
> Some of those points have been addressed (marked DONE), but many/most
> are not, and neither resolved/fixed (or otherwise marked as NVT).
> As just an example, Justin noticed for the ./ide/modules/ext/smackx.jar
> file that it included the BSD licensed JZlib, which wasn't mentioned in
> the LICENSE file. And still isn't for this 9.0-RC1.
> I don't think any of those are blockers, but it would be good to address
> these (create NETBEANS issues for them) before the final 9.0 release.

I have created 26 NETBEANS JIRA issues with Justin's remarks and we'll go 
through them before the final 9.0 release.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 21 May 2018 3:54 PM, Ate Douma <a...@douma.nu> wrote:

> I'm inclined to vote positive on this RC1, overall looks great!
> 
> -   verified the MD5 and SHA1, and PGP signatures with the ASC files.
> -   executed rat check (ant rat) and verified the report.
> -   build and run the source (using JDK8), and all seems fine.
> 
> However I still have two questions:
> 
> a) nbbuild/licenses folder still has the GPL license file, which I
> 
> thought/expected no longer should be needed with the fix from
> 
> NETBEANS-305 [1]?
> 
> Is there still a GPL usage left? If so this then could be a blocker IMO.
> 
> b) Justin provided detailed feedback on the 9.0-Beta-RC3 on (possible)
> 
> needed improvements/fixes for the binary dist LICENSE/NOTICE file [2],
> 
> thereafter recorded as a todo action list on the wiki [3] (end of page).
> 
> Some of those points have been addressed (marked DONE), but many/most
> 
> are not, and neither resolved/fixed (or otherwise marked as NVT).
> 
> As just an example, Justin noticed for the ./ide/modules/ext/smackx.jar
> 
> file that it included the BSD licensed JZlib, which wasn't mentioned in
> 
> the LICENSE file. And still isn't for this 9.0-RC1.
> 
> I don't think any of those are blockers, but it would be good to address
> 
> these (create NETBEANS issues for them) before the final 9.0 release.
> 
> Regards, Ate
> 
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-305
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/540
> 
> [2]
> 
> 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201801.mbox/<c4c5d5c4-ab44-4afe-ade2-9e91f593a...@classsoftware.com>
> 
> [3]
> 
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+Beta+rc3
> 
> On 2018-05-21 00:33, Emilian Bold wrote:
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to 
> > release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1.
> > 
> > We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on 
> > this incubator release candidate.
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c2a06adc83e2819e6d96c7dff8d0e22a97001f99bfda12515d4d9609@
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote result thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/94f7a5e4601e26c7edb8264df7df53dd8ed215ecfc568816a162f2af@
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the 
> > Apache NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform 
> > (i.e., the underlying application framework), as well as all the modules 
> > that provide the Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
> > 
> > In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
> > development.
> > 
> > Build artifacts available here:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1
> > 
> > The specific artifact to be voted on:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip
> > 
> > Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
> > files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same 
> > as these:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/README.md
> > 
> > SHA1: a1a265455c8246f849b14982fa3c36b351b21876
> > 
> > KEYS file:
> >

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

Yes, I saw here http://www.apache.org/dev/release-publishing.html that 

> .md5's in dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/ must be removed manually.

And I was planning on doing just that after the vote.

I've also wondered why we generate MD5s to begin with... I've added 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-821 to keep track of this.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 21 May 2018 6:44 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20 May 2018 at 23:33, Emilian Bold emilian.b...@protonmail.ch wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to 
> > release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1.
> > 
> > We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on 
> > this incubator release candidate.
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c2a06adc83e2819e6d96c7dff8d0e22a97001f99bfda12515d4d9609@
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote result thread:
> > 
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/94f7a5e4601e26c7edb8264df7df53dd8ed215ecfc568816a162f2af@
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the 
> > Apache NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform 
> > (i.e., the underlying application framework), as well as all the modules 
> > that provide the Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
> > 
> > In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
> > development.
> > 
> > Build artifacts available here:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1
> 
> MD5 hashes are deprecated and should not be used for new releases.
> 
> They can just be removed from the dist dir (and download page).
> 
> No need to redo the release, but please update scripts to stop creating them.
> 
> > The specific artifact to be voted on:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip
> > 
> > Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
> > files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same 
> > as these:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/README.md
> > 
> > SHA1: a1a265455c8246f849b14982fa3c36b351b21876
> > 
> > KEYS file:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
> > 
> > Apache NetBeans Git Repo tag: 9.0-rc1-rc1:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-rc1-rc1
> > 
> > Note: NetBeans license violation checks are managed via the 
> > rat-exclusions.txt file:
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt
> > 
> > Rat report shows no unknown licenses, except for license files:
> > 
> > https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-release/302/artifact/rat-java-temp/nbbuild/build/rat-report.txt
> > 
> > The license files listed in the Rat report are known and an issue exists 
> > for solving this:
> > 
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-305
> > 
> > Included as a convenience binary, not relevant for the voting purposes 
> > (unzip it, run it and you'll see Apache NetBeans):
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-bin.zip
> > 
> > Also included as a convenience binary the NBMs:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/nbms
> > 
> > New & Noteworthy features of the 9.0 Release:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+New+and+Noteworthy
> > 
> > Release specific wiki page:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+RC1
> > 
> > How (and what) to try out the release:
> > 
> > 1.  Download the artifact to be voted on and unzip it.
> > 2.  Build it using the README provided by the artifact.
> > 3.  Look in nbbuild/netbeans for the NetBeans installation created by the 
> > build process.
> > 4.  Run the NetBeans executable and (if you're running on JDK 8) you'll be 
> > prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its licensing terms, and 
> > (if you're running on JDK 9), you'll be able to use javac direct

[VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1

[Emilian Bold]

Hi all,

The Apache NetBeans community has voted on and approved a proposal to release 
Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1.

We now kindly request that the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this 
incubator release candidate.

Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote thread:

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c2a06adc83e2819e6d96c7dff8d0e22a97001f99bfda12515d4d9609@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) vote result thread:

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/94f7a5e4601e26c7edb8264df7df53dd8ed215ecfc568816a162f2af@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) constitutes all the modules in the Apache 
NetBeans Git repo, which together provide the NetBeans Platform (i.e., the 
underlying application framework), as well as all the modules that provide the 
Java SE-related features of Apache NetBeans.
In short, Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) is a full IDE for Java SE 
development.

Build artifacts available here:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1

The specific artifact to be voted on:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-source.zip

Included in the above are the DEPENDENCIES, DISCLAIMER, LICENSE, and NOTICE 
files, as well as a README file with build instructions, which are the same as 
these:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/README.md

SHA1: a1a265455c8246f849b14982fa3c36b351b21876

KEYS file:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS

Apache NetBeans Git Repo tag: 9.0-rc1-rc1:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-rc1-rc1

Note: NetBeans license violation checks are managed via the rat-exclusions.txt 
file:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/nbbuild/rat-exclusions.txt

Rat report shows no unknown licenses, except for license files:

https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-release/302/artifact/rat-java-temp/nbbuild/build/rat-report.txt

The license files listed in the Rat report are known and an issue exists for 
solving this:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-305

Included as a convenience binary, not relevant for the voting purposes (unzip 
it, run it and you'll see Apache NetBeans):

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-rc1-bin.zip

Also included as a convenience binary the NBMs:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/nbms

New & Noteworthy features of the 9.0 Release:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+New+and+Noteworthy

Release specific wiki page:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+9.0+RC1

How (and what) to try out the release:

1. Download the artifact to be voted on and unzip it.
2. Build it using the README provided by the artifact.
3. Look in nbbuild/netbeans for the NetBeans installation created by the build 
process.
4. Run the NetBeans executable and (if you're running on JDK 8) you'll be 
prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its licensing terms, and (if 
you're running on JDK 9), you'll be able to use javac directly from JDK 9 and, 
optionally, you'll be prompted to install nb-javac, after agreeing to its 
licensing terms.

If the above succeeds, i.e., Apache NetBeans installs and starts up, you will 
have a development environment that complies with Apache IP requirements and 
you should vote +1 in this thread.

Please try out the package, using the instructions above, and vote!

The vote is open for 7 days

[ ] +1 Release this package as Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating)
[ ] 0 I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with the release
[ ] -1 Do not release this package because...


Emilian Bold
on behalf of the Apache NetBeans PPMC

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Re: [VOTE] Drop incubating requirement of Maven artifacts

[Emilian Bold]

>  I would favor a system of marker(s) indicating the code maturity (incl legal)

There is no standard afaik to indicate legal or community 'maturity'.

It would be something for a (RDF) vocabulary for artifacts to be
adopted industry wide.

Right now none of the Maven coordinates are a good fit for such markers.

The world uses version numbers to indicate code maturity from a technical pow.

If somebody cares about the legal aspect they look at the project
license, dependencies, website, project owner good standing, etc.


--emi


On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 2:37 AM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:
> Coming late to the party...
>
> This has been discussed, and contentious, since "forever". A long time ago,
> there was a notion that a podling release was not an ASF release (which was
> the main reason for the "incubating" marker in all release and support
> artifacts. But that pendulum has swung in the opposite direction, and
> podling releases are now expected to be at ASF TLP levels.
>
> Pierre pointed out that "incubating" refers to community and not code, but
> we don't release a community, we release code. I think this is an important
> fact.
>
> So, instead of tying the "incubating" marker to "incubating", I would favor
> a system of marker(s) indicating the code maturity (incl legal). So, for a
> podling release to be 1.2.3 (a la Groovy), the same release standard as
> TLPs are applied, but allow "alpha", "rc" or similar markers for podlings
> to "practice" releases. Probably not pushing those to mirrors, but
> otherwise identical in "process" for podling to get their grips on the
> release process.
>
> So, I am +1 with John's "something is broken" observation, although I also
> agree with the many "-1"s that think there is value to the public here.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 7:47 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
>
>> I'll point out that this is a cancel thread..., I'm fine if people want to
>> continue chatting in here, but I started a new discussion on
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/15550f5bf622ae3070b558505c8a0f
>> d0ce3b23df3012d57de8b6d9f3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>>
>> I'll try to answer questions I saw pop up
>>
>> Mark Struberg: No, ignoring commons/log4j for a minute, other projects
>> continue to work under legacy maven coordinates.  Includes one i already
>> linked to - groovy, also freemarker, zest/polygene (a project that went
>> straight to TLP).  There's neither foundation policy nor legal impact by
>> using other very similar marks, especially when the project's name hasn't
>> changed.  Publishing under "com.oracle.someProduct" would probably be bad
>> from a marks standpoint since it shows as property of some other company,
>> whereas former foundations or completely independent projects.  Plus, the
>> way maven central works you own the entire tld, except for cases where its
>> a known third party publisher.  For instance, I own (personally) the domain
>> name ament.ws and have access to publish under maven coordinates
>> ws.ament.*.  Github users have to request io.github.themselves manually.  I
>> assume that something similar exists between the ASF and Sonatype to enable
>> publishing under org.apache, and ensure that no one else can use
>> org.apache.
>>
>> Pierre Smits: This is something I expected to be a hot topic.  So while
>> 100% consensus isn't expected, a clear path forward is something to expect,
>> even if not everyone is happy about the outcome.  FWIW, there seem to be 3
>> different POVs (that I could identify) on those who were against the idea:
>>
>> - Those who thought this was dropping -incubating from the Apache release
>> archive.
>> - Those who acknowledged that this was maven specific and felt it should
>> continue as is.
>> - Those who acknowledged that this was currently maven specific and should
>> be made broader.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 4:49 AM Martijn Dashorst <
>> martijn.dasho...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Late to the party, but having a long think about this is sometimes
>> > beneficial.
>> >
>> > +1 to drop the -incubator/-incubating version attachment for any
>> > artifacts (not just Maven).
>> >
>> > My reasoning is the following:
>> >
>> > Source code lives longer than any community. Long after a podling has
>> > gone through the incubator, the code remains. The releases remain. How
>> > a community conducts itself doesn't reflect on the released code. Code
>> > just exists.
>> >
>> > While it is important for current users coming to a project to know
>> > the status of the community, does it really matter if the code is in
>> > incubation or has graduated? Does that matter in 5 years whether the
>> > code of foo-1.2 was incubating while the community has graduated and
>> > now resides in the attic?
>> >
>> > Releases have a long life. Code has a long life. We shouldn't mix
>> > timely things like project status with long lived things like
>> > releases. Websites are 

Re: Github tagging, was Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Joshua 6.1 RC#2

[Emilian Bold]

The subject is a bit odd, but isn't https://github.com/apache an official
Apache Software Foundation repository?

And https://github.com/apache/incubator-joshua/releases with the big blue
Releases button seems suggestive (or confusing) to downstream users.

The solution, due to GitHub's quirk, is to put tags after the vote. Doesn't
seem that much of a trouble.


--emi

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Tom Barber  wrote:

> Personally I think thats over doing it a bit on the T's, the PPMC hasn't
> created the artifact, I could create a release of any project and slap it
> on github and people could download it, doesn't make it "official" though,
> its just those faux-releases are generated by github themselves not a user.
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > IMHO, the tags on github are not formal releases.
> >
> > The tags may not be but it does creates a release artefact that someone
> > can download.
> >
> > >  So its not a violation of ASF release process.
> >
> > How so? It’s creating an artefact that the general public can access and
> > download before the vote is over. [1] [2] seems quite clear on this.
> >
> > > Some projects have handled this by moving release votes to a different
> > > (mirror/fork) of the project.
> >
> > You can just make the release on a branch rather than in a fork/mirror.
> >
> > Anyway I'll raise it on legal discuss.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution.html#unreleased
> > 2. http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Tom Barber
> CTO Spicule LTD
> t...@spicule.co.uk
>
> http://spicule.co.uk
>
> GB: +44(0)5603641316
> US: +18448141689
>

Re: [VOTE] Weex to enter the Apache Incubator

[Emilian Bold]

+1 (non-binding)


--emi

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Bono Lv  wrote:
> > The proposal was updated to add ASF id of our Champion and Mentors...
>
> Ok thanks, +1 for accepting the podling!
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Weex for Apache Incubator

[Emilian Bold]

Not long ago we had a thread here about English being the work language on
Apache.

We can't expect projects to check (and change) their name based on such
loose criteria.

I bet a lot of names come "close" to some slang word in some world language.

Bertrand's remark seems reasonable to me:

> the comments in this thread should be considered
friendly advice, nothing more.

So there is no incubation-impacting decision to be made here.

În mar., 22 nov. 2016 la 15:03 Jochen Wiedmann <jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com>
a scris:

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> How can the project name be a problem when "weex" sounds to me like the
> very common English word *weeks*?

Depends on the language. In german, it's close to a slang word for
"masturbation", Not sufficiently close, IMO, to cause problems, but
others may have a different point of view.


Jochen

--
The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"

http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg

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Re: [DISCUSS] Weex for Apache Incubator

[Emilian Bold]

How can the project name be a problem when "weex" sounds to me like the
very common English word *weeks*?

So unless somebody really plans to veto the incubation proposal due to this
very minor linguistic issue and considering the fact that the project has
some history and is already publicly known under this name I would drop
this issue.



--emi

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Bono Lv  wrote:
> > ...We need a few days for the evaluation, but welcome everybody give us
> > suggestion...
>
> There's no hurry but as I said if you're going to change the name, the
> sooner the better as it gets harder the more the project progresses.
>
> From the ASF's side I think the only hard requirement is that the name
> be acceptable in terms of trademarks - where there's a (small,
> debatable) potential for confusion with wix.com.
>
> From a "marketing" point of view having a name that's unfortunate in a
> common language is not good.
>
> Vielen Dank ;-)
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] China Contribution. (was: RocketMQ Incubation Proposal)

[Emilian Bold]

I believe the working language[1] of ASF projects is English.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_language

În Vin, 11 nov. 2016 la 11:13 Bertrand Delacretaz 
a scris:

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Niclas Hedhman 
> wrote:
> > ...there have been language specific mailing lists in the past, but they
> tend
> > to be short-lived...
>
> I think an important distinction is between a project's dev list,
> which is where project decisions must be made. That one must currently
> be in English so that ASF members and the Board can review discussions
> and decisions if needed, without relying on imperfect translations.
>
> Having users channels in other languages can be useful but that's
> probably only viable for big projects with lots of users, so that each
> list can be a meaningful community.
>
> IMO chat channels in other languages than English are not really a
> problem, as long as the project's decisions happen on its dev list.
> Like with any other non-dev-list channel, someone needs to bring
> discussions to the dev list as long as they become important - like
> affecting the software development as opposed to just being coffee
> machine type discussions.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
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>
>

Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?

[Emilian Bold]

So by default a HipChat conversation would be equivalent to using private@
except when somebody manually activates recording which produces a wiki
page with no email notification whatsoever?



--emi

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Would hipchat be logged somewhere?
> >
> > Is it possible to be at least some weekly digest email?
>
> That might be possible. See INFRA-12328.
>
> Jochen
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/
> evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Incubator chat on Hipchat?

[Emilian Bold]

Would hipchat be logged somewhere?

Is it possible to be at least some weekly digest email?

Pe joi, 3 noiembrie 2016, John D. Ament  a scris:

> All,
>
> Infra recently started leveraging hipchat.  A few PMCs have made use of
> it.  I was wondering, would it be beneficial to anyone if we setup an
> incubator room in hipchat?
>
> John
>


-- 

--emi

Re: Netbeans expectations (Was: Re: ASF doing too much? (Was: Re: TAC))

[Emilian Bold]

> 3) You write how the topic of "what value does the ASF provide to my
project"
comes up quite frequently in the incubator. Unless already done, I would
like to
see this documented under some stable URL to point people to. Not only do I
get
this question to from time to time, it might also help other projects
thinking
about going to the ASF make an informed decision.

+1

As somebody just getting used to Apache I would find such a document
interesting.

Pe miercuri, 28 septembrie 2016, Isabel Drost-Fromm  a
scris:

>
> (again an explicit note for the mix of private and public mailing lists for
> those hitting reply-to-all after reading the below)
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I think we are talking cross-purposes here. Trying to summarize what I
> believe
> I'm hearing here, those actually involved, please correct if I'm totally
> off.
>
> For starters, Roman, I understand how being labelled "not involved in the
> Netbeans
> proposal" is offending to you. I do think there are a few points that Jim
> raised that truly are worrying though. In my opinion it makes sense to
> focus
> on these as opposed to discussing who is or isn't to "(git) praise" for
> them.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 03:39:26PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Jim Jagielski  > wrote:
> > > To be clear: "Netbeans stakeholders" had serious and misleading
> > > information about what Apache provided and it was only brought
> > > out via some backchannel discussion with someone not involved
> > > in the Netbeans proposal (from the Apache side) at all...
>
> For me this gets directly to the point: When I started being involved as
> more
> than a user at Apache one of the first principles I learnt was that
> essentially
> "anything that didn't happen on the mailing list didn't happen".
>
> If one of our projects (TLP, incubating, prospective) had a flawed
> understanding
> of what the ASF provides I would expect this discussion to be important
> enough
> to have it on some archived mailing list.
>
>
> > I am actually offended by your categorization of me as the one who
> > is "not involved in the Netbeans proposal (from the  Apache side) at
> all..."
>
> @Roman: If you step back and re-read the statement, maybe you can follow my
> first intuition that this could actually be seen as praise to the person
> who
> brought this issue up despite not being officially affiliated/ involved
> with
> the Netbeans proposal. (@Jim, maybe I'm totally off here interpreting your
> words
> waaay too optimistically ;) )
>
>
> > Putting aside the amount of personal time I've spent on the phone,
> > online, etc. trying to help this community calibrate their expectations
> > about transition to ASF
>
> I remember that whenever someone at Mahout was talking about having a
> discussion
> on IRC, Hipchat, Hangouts, Slack, on the phone or whatever your favourite
> sync communication tool was people popped up dragging the discussion (or at
> least the decisions made during the discussion) back to our canonical form
> of
> communication which happened to be the public mailing list.
>
> Back there it was for several good reasons: People who weren't in the same
> time
> zone got a chance to chime into the discussion, people late to the
> discussion -
> even years late - could still participate, if the same discussion ever
> came up
> again we could refer people back to the archives instead of repeating
> previous
> wisdom.
>
> I believe those reasons are also valid for discussions happening around
> projects
> going through incubation (including as early as around the time of proposal
> submission). On top I can see at least three more reasons why in the
> incubator
> we should err on the "put too much stuff on the mailing list instead of too
> little" actually:
>
> 1) In essence the incubator is where we "teach" new incoming projects how
> to
> collaborate. If we agree that the "if it didn't happen on the mailing list
> it
> didn't happen" actually is a thing, I believe we should act as role models
> for
> that principle so new projects have good examples to follow.
>
> 2) Netbeans is a very publicly visible project. It has many downstream
> users.
> There already is quite some controversial discussions around it going
> through
> incubation outside the ASF. I believe this makes it even more important to
> put
> as much information around how the project together with us arrived at
> certain
> decisions out publicly. Not only for others to follow now, but also to
> reference
> back to in the future.
>
> 3) You write how the topic of "what value does the ASF provide to my
> project"
> comes up quite frequently in the incubator. Unless already done, I would
> like to
> see this documented under some stable URL to point people to. Not only do
> I get
> this question to from time to time, it might also help other projects
> thinking
> about going to the ASF make an informed decision.
>
>
> Thanks for 

Re: Radical proposal: no initial list of committers

[Emilian Bold]

Considering the effort that went into this and the fact that we had just
reached a point where we could move on past this list, I hope you start
using this new rule for the next project submitted.

Pe marți, 27 septembrie 2016, Greg Stein  a scris:

> The NetBeans proposal (among many others in the past) has demonstrated a
> significant "problem" with trying to establish an appropriate list of
> initial committers. There are many people that want to be on, for various
> reasons. Because they are committers, recent or historic. Or they want the
> "prestige" to be there. Some people believe they "deserve" to be on the
> list. etc etc
>
> Establishing the list is particularly difficult for large and old
> communities.
>
> But. What if we just said "no such list" ?
>
> This will shift the initial voting of committers upon the Champion/Mentors
> who will construct the entirety of the PPMC. But hey: aren't they supposed
> to be involved? Aren't they supposed to demonstrate how to earn merit, and
> the committership that results?
>
> This would also solve the problem of initial committers that have not
> established any merit whatsoever. We've had many situations where people
> simply add themselves to the list. Why? Cuz they chose to do so. It is sort
> of silently allowed for IPMC members to add themselves. "I wanna join!"
> BAM. It happens.
>
> So yeah. Radical thought: NO initial list. The PPMC is just the Champion +
> Mentors. They will build the committers and PPMC according to merit. (note:
> this could be *very* fast for a particular few highly-engaged with bringing
> the project to the ASF)
>
> ???
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>


-- 

--emi

Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal)

[Emilian Bold]

Ross Gardler is the current president of the ASF so in a way he does sign
the check and should be worried about these things.

Still, the number of Java developers is only growing and they need an IDE
and NetBeans is a major IDE with 1.5 million individual users! This number
is probably conservative since it excludes all the people behind
(corporate) firewalls.

Helping NetBeans would be for the public good and it really does help the
other Apache properties such as Ant, Maven, Tomcat, Groovy, etc.

Business wise, NetBeans is a great deal for Apache. The netbeans.org domain
alone could pull in ads the cost of infrastructure (although ASF might have
a policy against ads, etc, etc)


--emi

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com
> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> > Don't make the request until the IPMC can present an argument that a move
> > of NetBeans to the ASF will reverse the decline in interest that NetBeans
> > is seeing.
>
>
> OK, we do need to see the basis for that assertion. I think the only thing
> that cannot be tolerated is assertions without basis. Where is the evidence
> of "the decline in interest that NetBeans is seeing"? Because, speaking on
> behalf of the NetBeans community, we are not seeing that, at all. That
> evidence is not there or, if it is, we need to know what it is.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Ross Gardler  >
> wrote:
>
> > The ASF need to justify spending an extra $10k per year in this one
> > project at the expense of that $10k going to other projects.
> >
> > Don't make the request until the IPMC can present an argument that a move
> > of NetBeans to the ASF will reverse the decline in interest that NetBeans
> > is seeing.
> >
> > It may sound trivial, but we can support three "traditional" ASF projects
> > for NetBeans budget. As a charity we need to think carefully about how we
> > spend our money. A solid argument that this would reverse the downward
> > trend for NetBeans will go a long way to reassuring me (as one member,
> but
> > also as the person ultimately responsible for paying such a budget
> request
> > to the board).
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > ---
> > Twitter: @rgardler
> >
> > 
> > From: Ted Dunning  >
> > Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:04:34 PM
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> 
> > Subject: Re: Preliminary NetBeans cost findings (was: [DISCUSS] Apache
> > NetBeans Incubator Proposal)
> >
> > Should this request come from IPMC? Seems like it should be at least a
> coop
> > request between infra (who get the budget and the operational onus) and
> > incubator (who cause the problem).
> >
> > Certainly the budget shouldn't come to the IPMC if approved.
> >
> > I will work with the board to determine the best form.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Chris Mattmann  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Daniel this is great work. Thank you for outlining this. Wow!
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/24/16, 3:17 AM, "Daniel Gruno"  > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I've been going over the requirements for NetBeans infrastructure,
> > it's
> > > ballpark costs, bandwidth, machines needed and so forth, and the
> > cliff
> > > notes are as follows:
> > >
> > > - 40-50TB/month in traffic required (mostly downloads+plugins)
> > > - 8-13 machines/VMS are required
> > > - Ballpark hardware costs are between $3k and $10k per year,
> > depending
> > >   on how much we can move to existing infrastructure and how close
> we
> > >   come to the original setup. The most likely figure we are working
> > > with
> > >   is $4.9k, but we should be prepared for a larger cost, just in
> > case.
> > > - The maintenance will be split between infra (downloads, web site,
> > CI,
> > >   new build machines) and the project (services, plugins,
> > statistics),
> > >   which will undoubtedly incur additional costs in terms of infra
> > time
> > >   spent on this, possibly to the tune of $10-20k in the initial
> > phase.
> > >
> > > Certain services like the plugins hosting will rely on Legal giving
> > the
> > > go-ahead for it, otherwise we'll have to find other people willing
> to
> > > host this.
> > >
> > > Other items like downloads may be offset by CDN providers offering
> > > their
> > > assistance, but we should be prepared for this not being the case
> > from
> > > the beginning, thus the 40-50TB/month. Likewise, some 

Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal

[Emilian Bold]

A NetBeans release is produced from the NetBeans Mercurial repository. All
the language modules: Java, Javascript, C/C++, etc. you see there after
install are Oracle / NetBeans code.

The Plugins Portal has some other, 3rd party modules which don't come
bundled with the official builds but users are free to install them.


--emi

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jochen Theodorou  wrote:

> On 24.09.2016 05:34, Wade Chandler wrote:
> [...]
>
>> I ask these obvious rhetorical questions to get to this point: Would it be
>> feasible for NetBeans to succeed among competing projects with such a
>> stipulation that all hosted or distributed plugins be contributed to
>> Apache
>> or licensed the same? Without an ecosystem and infrastructure that doesn't
>> force everyone into the same model, which is why the Apache license has
>> been so successful on a different level IMO, and Maven and Gradle on a
>> similar level, then I don't see such a project succeeding considering its
>> user base and use cases.
>>
>
> For me the problem is that without plugins you have only the bare
> plattform and no IDE.If you want to still be able to distribute an IDE with
> the same plugins as today, you will need to relicense some of the (L)GPled
> plugins to apache or rewrite them. The "All" version according to
> https://netbeans.org/downloads/ comes with Java, HTML5/Javascript, PHP,
> C/C++ and Groovy. And already for those plugins we have a good mix of GPL,
> LGPL and CDDL. I will become a problem if there will be an netbeans IDE
> download that mixes these through.
>
> I really only want to hear, that these plugins will be migrated as part of
> netbeans incubation as well, or what the plans for these are.
>
> I am sure there will be a solution for the hosting of the plugins.
>
> bye Jochen
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal

[Emilian Bold]

> hg doesn't have the committer/author separation like GIT has, right? :(
>

I don't believe it does, yet.


> In the ASF it's good practice to give credits to the patch contributor in
> the commit, e.g.
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/5bafa2ba5977ab88c8dfe376c97568
> 25d948bce9afd3b69aa693ab96@%3Ccommits.openwebbeans.apache.org%3E
>
> But of course that makes doing the research much more complicated.
>

Generally commit messages do reference the bugzilla issue number and
sometimes the contributor directly but this makes it hard to compile a list
automatically.


> Which brings us to another question:
> If the commits just referenced a bugzilla ticket, do we also like to
> migrate the bugzilla content over?
> Or at least keep it browsable somewhere?
>

I would want to keep as much of the context/history as possible. Bugzilla
issues have a lot of important discussions.

Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal

[Emilian Bold]

I assume there is a reason the list is called initial. It doesn't have to
be perfect.

We should differentiate between a contributor and a committer.

A lot more people contributed patches via bugzilla than actually committed
them in the Mercurial repository themselves.

The reason being it was not a very common thing to get committer access.

Furthermore, while I am a contributor and do have commit access and the
Oracle CLA on file most of my contributions don't show up under my name.
They show up under the name of the Sun / Oracle employee that got assigned
to the Bugzilla issue where I posted my patch.

Considering how large NetBeans is I assume we will not have a short
incubation so there will be plenty of time to add committers.

Pe sâmbătă, 24 septembrie 2016, Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de.invalid> a
scris:

>
>
> Consider you did contribute 300 important patches to NetBeans over the
> years. Wouldn't it hurt your feelings that you are not enlisted on the
> initial committers list?
>
>
> But otoh the initial list of committers is not important for the ASF _if_
> the PPMC makes a good job.
> Because if such a person comes knocking then some of the 'old' NetBeans
> lords will hopefully recognise the person and any other PPMC member
> will at least check the commit history for his/hers contributions.
>
> And if someone shows up who already contributed lots of good things in the
> past and would like to become active again, then it's just a matter of 72h
> (VOTE time) to get him on board.
>
> BUT: we must clearly communicate that we start with a limited committer
> list simply because WE fail to compose a correct one from the very start.
> But people should know that we will fix this list over time.
>
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
>
>
> > On Saturday, 24 September 2016, 7:46, Emilian Bold <
> emilian.b...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > So on one hand the initial commiters list is not something so
> important and
> > we should realy just be careful about the PPMC then vote more commiters
> > during incubation.
> >
> > On the other hand the initial commiters list is super important.
> >
> > Is there some actual incubation documentation clearing this up?
> >
> > I think it's a big administrative task to compile a perfect list. It's
> > not
> > only about who has commit rights on the current repository, there are
> also
> > many that contribute good patches via Bugzilla, etc.
> >
> > Also, each individual would have to be contacted and agree to be on the
> > list which also implicitly means they will sign the Apache CLA.
> >
> > I do not believe the initial commiters list could fracture the community
> as
> > long as we provide a clear path to become a commiter.
> >
> > I maintained a NetBeans fork for a customer but it was a lot of work to
> > backport fixes, etc. Nobody is going to go through all that trouble just
> > out of spite because they were not on the initial commiter's list.
> >
> >
> >
> > --emi
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 2:25 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>  On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> >>  <bdelacre...@apache.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>  > Hi Wade,
> >>  >
> >>  > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Wade Chandler
> >>  > <cons...@wadechandler.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>  >> ..I can say as a long time contributor who is not on the initial
> > list, I
> >>  >> understand, think it is fine, and agree that being added once we
> > get
> >>  into
> >>  >> the actual incubation phase makes sense...
> >>  >
> >>  > Thanks!
> >>  >
> >>  > As someone who has mentored several projects here in the last ten
> >>  > years or so I think although people sometimes see a lot of value in
> >>  > being on the initial committers list they should not, IMO.
> >>  >
> >>  > What very often happens during incubation is some people who were on
> >>  > this list almost never contribute to the project, and other expected
> >>  > or unexpected people show up, do great things and get elected as a
> >>  > result.
> >>  >
> >>  > Also, as mentor I will recommend reviewing the list of committers and
> >>  > PMC members shortly before graduation, to give the opportunity to
> >>  > people who didn't actually become active to gracefully retire - if
> > the
> >>  > pro

Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal

[Emilian Bold]

So on one hand the initial commiters list is not something so important and
we should realy just be careful about the PPMC then vote more commiters
during incubation.

On the other hand the initial commiters list is super important.

Is there some actual incubation documentation clearing this up?

I think it's a big administrative task to compile a perfect list. It's not
only about who has commit rights on the current repository, there are also
many that contribute good patches via Bugzilla, etc.

Also, each individual would have to be contacted and agree to be on the
list which also implicitly means they will sign the Apache CLA.

I do not believe the initial commiters list could fracture the community as
long as we provide a clear path to become a commiter.

I maintained a NetBeans fork for a customer but it was a lot of work to
backport fixes, etc. Nobody is going to go through all that trouble just
out of spite because they were not on the initial commiter's list.



--emi

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 2:25 AM, Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>  wrote:
> > Hi Wade,
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Wade Chandler
> >  wrote:
> >> ..I can say as a long time contributor who is not on the initial list, I
> >> understand, think it is fine, and agree that being added once we get
> into
> >> the actual incubation phase makes sense...
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > As someone who has mentored several projects here in the last ten
> > years or so I think although people sometimes see a lot of value in
> > being on the initial committers list they should not, IMO.
> >
> > What very often happens during incubation is some people who were on
> > this list almost never contribute to the project, and other expected
> > or unexpected people show up, do great things and get elected as a
> > result.
> >
> > Also, as mentor I will recommend reviewing the list of committers and
> > PMC members shortly before graduation, to give the opportunity to
> > people who didn't actually become active to gracefully retire - if the
> > project governance works it's easy to come back later by becoming
> > active, and the project benefits from having a roster that reflects
> > the reality of active contributors.
> >
> > So in summary people shouldn't put too much value on the initial list
> > of committers, it's just that - an initial list, a kind of draft that
> > will evolve during incubation, and probably evolve a lot for a large
> > project such as NetBeans.
>
> Well, but they do. In fact, when I was a VP of Incubator a few years
> ago I had to deal with a formal escalation brought to the ASF level
> by somebody who felt unduly left out of that initial list of committers.
> If the code one wrote is going into ASF -- and especially if it is a
> non-trivial amount of code, one can certainly expect some considerations.
>
> This is the same principle as ASF postulates when we say that we
> don't fork the communities. We truly don't. That's why for a project
> as large as NetBeans I think it is important for us to inquire what
> kind of due diligence was done to get the list of initial committers
> just right. Otherwise it is going to be OpenOffice vs. LibreOffice
> type of situation all over again (not that commiters was the key
> issue there -- but you catch my drift).
>
> >> ...I am able to contribute as much as I can at this stage anyways...
> >
> > Indeed, and that stays true once incubation starts. Even though an
> > Apache PMC ultimately makes all the project decisions, they are
> > expected to listen to their community. The "community" section at
> > https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-
> maturity-model.html
> > expresses that.
>
> Right. And all I want to get out folks on this thread at this point is two
> things:
>  #1 admission that past contributions will be valued a LOT when it
>   comes to somebody requesting to be added as a committer to the
>   project during incubation
>
>  #2 a bit of explanation of what was the process to arrive at initial list
> of
>   committers
>
> >> ...getting into building a thorough list before hand will
> >> certainly take time away from higher priority items at this stage...
> >
> > Yes, that's why the NetBeans mentors pushed to avoid adding people to
> > the list of initial committers before the incubation vote starts, as
> > for a popular project that's a lot of work with no real value as
> > mentioned above.
>
> I disagree. Like I said -- being a VP of incubator having to deal with
> that type of escalation was not a fun place to be in.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal

[Emilian Bold]

>
> git clone of the Linus' repo takes 3 minutes.
>
> The hg clone of netbeans took 5 HOURS!
>

This is surely dependent on the network and the server the git/hg client
talks to.


> The repo size is 3.6GB. But it contains many binaries which we could
> probably strip off.
> I really don't like to have a Hibernate jar file in an official ASF repo ;)
>

There may be some ancient leftover binaries, but since I can remember
external JARs have been saved outside the mercurial repository here:
http://hg.netbeans.org/binaries/ and are automatically downloaded when
necessary at build time (and cached in ~/.hgexternalcache).

I see hibernate files on http://hg.netbeans.org/binaries/ going as far as
2008 so they should not be in the mercurial repo.

> I'm sure you've read this by now, but HG seems a better fit for these
> > larger
> > projects:
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1unehr/
> scaling_mercurial_at_facebook/
> >
> > All this to say: I would tread carefully. Out of curiosity, is there a
> > reason that Apache projects can't use Mercurial?
>

+1

Mercurial is a mainstream open-source DVCS the same age as git. It also
supports history rewriting.

All the existing NetBeans contributors are used to mercurial and while git
is in theory similar to mercurial I often find myself googling for the most
basic git things (hg rollback in git being something I can never remember).

--emi